oh yah
and hello all, few names I recognize.
Uh it was a day start, so you never got a chance to investigate.J-man wrote:fine for gods sake this game is going nowhere so im going to do something that is slighty unusual,
I am one of the two Cops, last night i was unable to investagate mabye because there are tow of us? there now the scum better pipe up or i will actually agree with killing Lurkers.
1. So jumping out in front of the train and yelling stop is the best idea?J-man wrote: ok there are 2 reasons that i claimed cop
1. because this game was not moving anywhere it needed a jump start that was enough provoking for me.
2. since there are 2 cops we could effectively sweep the whole populace for mafia in several short nights Lynch's aside, this is assuming that both cops are sane ;P but if we corrodinate our moves we can find out whether or not we are aswell, i hope you guys see my point.
If its a newbie error thats one thing. God knows I have made my fair share of them. The problem is, this early in the game you are looking for inconsistence's and what he did is a big one. Lynching any claimed role (except mafia ) is risky, but it happens in more games than I can count. I'm willing to come off of him, but I need another target or at the very least a better explination. Look J-man, calm down take a breathe and explain why you claimed cop so early again, then tell us who you suspect, in detail and we can go from there.mneme wrote: I consider J-Man's story entirely plausible for a fresh-off-the-boat newbie error -- much more likley than the idea of claiming cop first thing as scum. Is it a mistake? Sure, though a single cop coming out in a two-cop game with a gaurunteed doc is actually more sensible than you might think.
Agreed on the first point, but I am wondering about the second. Look you say you believe him, and the cats already out of the bag then, why wouldn't you want to know who he will investigate and the result? Minor FOS.I don't think the other cop should claim -- nor do I want to know who J-man intends to investigate tonight.
They are high and I agree it is entirely plausible he is a cop, but the way you get people talking in this game is with votes and he's starting to talk again, which is good for him if he is the cop. This will keep him alive if he can convince others and at the same time help the doc know who to protect and ultimatly help us find the scum.I do not want to lynch J-man today -- the odds of him actually being a cop are just too high.
Son of a bitch I never thought......mneme wrote:J-man: because it gives the mafia a good kill choice that isn't a known cop. Moreover, if you are scum, it gives you a good excuse for why you don't have to report results.
I'd rather have them shooting in the dark, really.
So I guess this begs the question now if this is one of those variations.wiki wrote: The most common special role. The Cop can investigate a player each night and find out whether they are on the Scum or Pro-Town side. Depending on the variation, sometimes they can discover the role name as well.
I'm sorry, what? Could you clarify this for me?Khelvaster wrote:And vendagoat is trying to fuck around with the facts now. Seriously, how hard is it to know how to read instructions? You're obviously trying to confuse us if you are saying things like vendagoat just said.
Vote: Vendagoat
BWA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HA-HAKhelvaster wrote:Let me rephrase that:Vendagoat wrote: Wow, just wow. Khel you're really desperate for anything arn'tcha?
Vendagoat wrote: OMGUS!!!!!!!!!!!
He jumps to conclusions and is looking for a quick lynch.xyzzy wrote:Not asking for claims. Asking for why I shouldn't think he's scum. He did something scummy.
But apparently he's not interested in defense.
Unvote, vote YB
Yogurt and Khelvaster are the 2 scum.
I've been told multiple times that humor is a scum tell. This is thin though, so let me get rolling.Khelvaster wrote:Quick...everyone post screenshots of their role posts while erg0 is away :p
to post 39Khelvaster wrote:Wow...someone is really, really jumping to conclusions. Xyzzy reacted to my random vote with an attack on Yogurt, then OMGUS'd me for no good reason. It seems that what I said to him really struck a nerve. That is why I willxyzzy wrote: Yogurt and Khelvaster are the 2 scum.
Confirm Vote: Xyzzy
Townies have no reason to jump to conclusions like xyzzy on the first page.
and then in post 40 he tried to edit his way out of it.Khelvaster wrote:HH, you really need to watch yourself. You jumped onto xyzzy pretty quickly...
Ok back to Xyz for a second (if you can't tell I'm just going through the thread and pointing out what I find wrong)Khelvaster wrote:EBWOP: Never mind...I don't know what I'm thinking. I'm so used to being ignored that I thought listening to me was a scumtell. Forget my last post.
I may be mistaken but wasn't yogurt defending you Xyz? If he was why are you so defensive? Possible distancing right there.xyzzy wrote:Yes, the significant post was the QFT-ing post. I found that scummy, and for a good reason. Find the scumtell and prove to me that it isn't basis for your lynch.YogurtBandit wrote:You think Im scum be cause I QFTED the "I didnt joke about being scum". Poor reasoning.xyzzy wrote:Yogurt, are you scum?
Don't avoid that question. Give me good reasons why I should think otherwise, because right now I'm pretty sure you are.
While I have been in a game with him and yes he has been completly random in both, Ill let Mneme answer this one for me.xyzzy wrote:Go read any of my games. This is how I ALWAYS play, whether I'm scum or town. Therefore, you can't use it as a basis to lynch me, because it doesn't change the likelihood that I'm scum.
Ok sefar this part is for you. This is why I am still suspicious of j-man even with the claim.mneme wrote:The "I play like crap" defense isn't actually a defense.
No explanation, just a vote and when I challenge him on what seems to be a random vote on page three, we get.J-man wrote:Unvote, Vote: Khelvaster
He admits he made a vote JUST BECAUSE! oh and check the bold. Now he's claimed and free from suspicion? I think not! But, he hasn't been countered which to me means he is not the play for today.J-man wrote:oh good there are people that actually watch this thread good,my explination for that was to see if it was worth my time to actually give a thought to this game:S and yes im sorry about being gone for a week RL calls. Khelvaster was the target for no reason other then he posted last so now on with mafia
Unvote
This, to me, seems like an OMGUS attack and I have no real idea where it came from. I gave everyone my thoughts and corrected myself, using this sites wiki. How did I misrepresent something? I need clarification and look I even said that in post 109 and I never got an answer.Khelvaster wrote:And vendagoat is trying to fuck around with the facts now. Seriously, how hard is it to know how to read instructions? You're obviously trying to confuse us if you are saying things like vendagoat just said.
Vote: Vendagoat
Uh hmmmmm. Let's see I put a 24 hour clock on you Xyz and you're still alive. I can get behind a khel lynch today, but I also think everyone should have a chance to talk and defend themselves, we are not infalable, we/I might have missed something. I'll respect j-man's wishes for 24 hours. Again, why are you defending him? So now you are yelling at yogurt for defending you and then at the same time yelling at j-man for targeting someone else. You can't have your cake and eat it too buddy. Why attack one and defend the other. You really are two-faced.xyzzy wrote:Why 24 hours?
Seems strange, arbitrary, and very scummy.
I do what I say I do. I will wait till 1:37 to vote. As I already said, khel or xyz is fine with me.J-man wrote:so is it your intention to hammer at that time Venda? how many suspitious things he has done that post that you just made, makes me think that som1 else deserves the target on there back for now.
im going to look for some more quotes and then get back to this.
(im on plenty so if he actually waits for the 24hrs i'll have plenty of time to unvote if i see fit.)
So you're agreeing that humor is a scumtell? Thanks.Khelvaster wrote:I will seperate everything that vendagoat says about me from what he says about xyzzy, since I don't really have a reason to think xyzzy is town, while I do have a reason to think I am town . On to the defence:
Vendagoat, you are on a very thin leash with me. The main reason I am not voting you is so you won't OMGUS and hammer me. Look at why I am in the situation I am in: I said xyzzy's post, which was meant to be humorous, was a slight scumtell. You just said my post, which was humorous and completely unrelated to lynching or voting in any way, was a scumtell.Vendagoat wrote:I've been told multiple times that humor is a scum tell. This is thin though, so let me get rolling.Khelvaster wrote:Quick...everyone post screenshots of their role posts while erg0 is away :p
This entire quote is nothing more than a dodge. It's not even an explanation, it's simply a dodge. Yes I noticed the EBWOP. And what if in one post you just came out admitted being scum and the next you EBWOP, are we just supposed to ignore it? No, for better or for worse, you said those things. This isn't a simple missed bracket for quotes, it was a complete and utter direct contradiction.khel wrote: Yeah, I was feeling pretty demoralized ATM because of some stuff happening in some other games. Nobody had listened to me, and we got put into a very bad position. It was something to do with me posting a very good case against someone, a townie listening to me and voting on the scum, and then getting lynched for "BWing." Notice the EBWOP--I realized that he was just agreeing with what I said and that it isn't necessarily a scumtell to agree with me. I admit that I screw up when I screw up--I don't go around hiding it like some other people in this game.
Ok fine let's go from your argument for a moment, just below this one. Then its also a mods responsibility to prod a game by deadlining it, not a player. As for cherry picking, its a necessity to get to the heart of the matter. People often dolly up dog shit with perfume, to make it seem better. Reading between the lines and discerning motives is this entire game.khel wrote: You are an idiot. Seriously. He admitted to making a vote as a game-prod. There is nothing scummy about that--he retracted the vote as soon as a few people posted. That is pro-town more than anything else. You are seeming more and more scummy as I read through this analysis. Either state all of someone's defence or ignore it--cherry picking is bad.
Everything in this game is a scumtell. Show me a town tell and then we will talk. This is a logical fallacy and thats as much as I will be responding to it. Oh and thanks for the mud slung at me. Yes I'm new.khel wrote: You can't have noticed too much *glances at vendagoat's signup date*. Accusing players of lurking and trying to get them lynched is a scumtell. Asking a mod to prod them isn't.
post 101khel wrote: I am sorry--I didn't see that post. Here is how: you were using arguments based off of your made-up fact that cops only get innocent-guilty results, and also trying to question cop sanity in an OPEN game.
post102vend wrote: Son of a bitch I never thought......
Wait a minute, doesn't a cop investigation just turn back a innocent or guilty verdict?
I made no such arguments. Can you not be bothered to even read the game? The person who brought up the sanity question was J-MAN himself! Add to this the fact that the WIKI agrees with me. Pro-town or Scum. Innocent or guilty and SOMETIMES the role.Vendagoat wrote:Sorry about all the posts in a row.So I guess this begs the question now if this is one of those variations.wiki wrote: The most common special role. The Cop can investigate a player each night and find out whether they are on the Scum or Pro-Town side. Depending on the variation, sometimes they can discover the role name as well.
So please Khel, keep talking. Your rebuttals are weak, your logic is flawed and you are OMGUSing me for some reason.J-man wrote: PS- the reason i say we should do a sanity test is because if we are both sane, the town can easily destroy the mafia in a couple nights. with well placed investagations reducing the # of double investagations to a minimum.
If you mean this one, then i did respond.J-man wrote:so is it your intention to hammer at that time Venda? how many suspitious things he has done that post that you just made, makes me think that som1 else deserves the target on there back for now.
im going to look for some more quotes and then get back to this.
(im on plenty so if he actually waits for the 24hrs i'll have plenty of time to unvote if i see fit.)
me wrote: I do what I say I do. I will wait till 1:37 to vote. As I already said, khel or xyz is fine with me.
First response is wifomKhelvaster wrote: No, I am saying hypocrisy is. Telling me that I am wrong for doing something when you do it is a scumtell, regardless of whether or not the thing you're doing is actually wrong.
Yeah, and I realized what I said was wrong as soon as I said it. I said it without thinking through what I had said. I wasn't trying to be hypocritical, hence the EBWOP. If I were trying to deceive you, I wouldn't have done an EBWOP a minute after posting.
So you admit that J-man is clearly town?
Yes, you did make those arguments, as you'd have noticed if you bothered to read your posts that you used in your defense. Also, I focused on you instead of J-man because J-man has contributed much more to this game than you have.
Also, regarding xyzzy, I think that you are trying to make everything seem split between me and him because he is your scumbuddy. You will forget him tomorrow, but your distancing will be so good nobody will think he was scum.
I've been rather busy at work and confess I havn't been paying too much attention to this game, or any of the others for that matter.mneme wrote: Thoughts on this from YB and Vendagoat? You guys have mostly been lying low.
Ok i get the 1/3 chance if we go with a cop, but isn't it a 1/4 chance on the others? and a 1/4 chance of accidentally killing the doc? Again going off your assumption that one scum has claimed cop.mneme wrote: Let's assume 3 claimed cops. One is scum.
If we lynch 1, we've got a 1/3 chance of getting a scum, and a 2/3 chance of getting a cop.
If we get a scum, yay! But that's only a 1/3 chance.
If we get a cop, we have to repeat the exercise tomorrow, with a 50% chance of just losing, and no useful cop investigations unless we guess right. So 1/3 chance of insta-loss (2/3 of lynching a cop * 1/2 chance of losing the LoL bet), 1/3 chance of a likely win, and a lot of murky odds in between.
By contrast, if we lynch a non-cop, and the cops investigate one another (note that any cop investigation is just fine; they can investigate randomly -- because an innocent on one means the other is guilty, etc), if a cop doesn't die, we find out who the scum is. If the scum target the cop, though, they've got a 1/3 chance of missing their kill (which gives us two living cops for day 3), and even if they -kill- a cop, that means they didn't winnow down the doctor -- and we've -still- got a 50% chance of lynching a scum on day 2.
If both scum claim cop on day 1, we've got a very different set of probabilities -- but those can wait (and be debated) after we find out what YB is claiming.
Quoting this for a third time in this thread just to show how huge of a scum tell this is.xyzzy wrote:If I were scum, I would not have pushed so hard for something that puts me on the suspect list.
YB is obviously one of the scum, regardless of what he claims...
However, I want him to claim before we go on.
Here's the second bit, I told sefer straight out a cop, me, did not feel like claiming.Vendagoat wrote:1. So jumping out in front of the train and yelling stop is the best idea?J-man wrote: ok there are 2 reasons that i claimed cop
1. because this game was not moving anywhere it needed a jump start that was enough provoking for me.
2. since there are 2 cops we could effectively sweep the whole populace for mafia in several short nights Lynch's aside, this is assuming that both cops are sane ;P but if we corrodinate our moves we can find out whether or not we are aswell, i hope you guys see my point.
2. Yes and we could use BOTH cops, not just have one throw his life away needlessly! Which is why no self respecting cop would ever just out himself for no reason.
I can see and understand your point, but try and see it from ours. The game is lagging, a few players are attempting to get things rolling and BAM here you come out of left field. For no reason you stand up and scream "hey guys look at me!" well, we are. You got yourself into this situation, now convince us as why to believe you. especially after the mighty big hole you've just dug.
This bit is to show how I myself got caught in to his story. We didn't know about Xyz yet and I thought I found a kindred spirit. This post is where I really started to think he could be a cop. I tried to help him, keep him talking and such. Since no one else had claimed cop yet and I still didn't want to claim, I wanted him to stick around by talking, so that I had a partner.Vendagoat wrote:Sefer as for your idea, I don't like it either as one of the cops might not feel like claiming. If thats the case it will have served nothing. Even if they both do claim, people are still apt to suspect them based on all the normal variety of claims, so at the end of the day, we are pretty much at square one. Your idea is perfect for an end game scenario, because when you can eliminate variables this game becomes a simple logic puzzle. Even with that I have read and almost been in a game, where someone spit in the eye of logic and just voted whatever and it cost them the game. So Sefar I say let's hold off on the claim thing until we can eliminate a few variables. I hate saying this, I really do, we have to go on hunches and feelings. I hate that, so much.
I myself am not exactly happy with how mafia is basically just talk and hope and am trying to work on something as well to make it a bit easier, especially on new players.
Vendagoat wrote:If its a newbie error thats one thing. God knows I have made my fair share of them. The problem is, this early in the game you are looking for inconsistence's and what he did is a big one. Lynching any claimed role (except mafia ) is risky, but it happens in more games than I can count. I'm willing to come off of him, but I need another target or at the very least a better explination. Look J-man, calm down take a breathe and explain why you claimed cop so early again, then tell us who you suspect, in detail and we can go from there.mneme wrote: I consider J-Man's story entirely plausible for a fresh-off-the-boat newbie error -- much more likley than the idea of claiming cop first thing as scum. Is it a mistake? Sure, though a single cop coming out in a two-cop game with a gaurunteed doc is actually more sensible than you might think.Agreed on the first point, but I am wondering about the second. Look you say you believe him, and the cats already out of the bag then, why wouldn't you want to know who he will investigate and the result? Minor FOS.I don't think the other cop should claim -- nor do I want to know who J-man intends to investigate tonight.They are high and I agree it is entirely plausible he is a cop, but the way you get people talking in this game is with votes and he's starting to talk again, which is good for him if he is the cop. This will keep him alive if he can convince others and at the same time help the doc know who to protect and ultimatly help us find the scum.I do not want to lynch J-man today -- the odds of him actually being a cop are just too high.
In other words j-man, like I already said, keep talking. Show us why we should believe you and not just take you at face value. Show us who you suspect and why and lets go from there. Take a deep breathe first though and relax.
Vendagoat wrote:I've been rather busy at work and confess I haven't been paying too much attention to this game, or any of the others for that matter.mneme wrote: Thoughts on this from YB and Vendagoat? You guys have mostly been lying low.
Simply put, I do not like the claim today idea as there is just too many ways it could be screwed up. I think a day two mass claim would make drastically more sense as there would be less variables, I know that is cold, but that is how I feel.