Mini 1671 - Eclipse Mafia - Total Eclipse (Game Over)

[Sotty7]

<3 Juls

Vote: ABR

All aboard!

[Sotty7]

I wish you would stop this. RVS wagons are good.

Oh this a thing he does? That's sad. Wagons are great things.

[Sotty7]

I'll answer that question once ABR gets here Juls. At least from my view anyway.

If you're keen to get things a-rolling, what do you think about Scarab's post 22?

[Sotty7]

Other than what I already mentioned about him/her having town reads already, not much. I had to go reread it cause I guess I glazed over the bottom part. Weak reasoning, a little verbose, but page 1...so.

Yeah it's page one but the reasoning for the scum didn't really make any real sense. Maybe I'm over thinking it.

I find it less strange he has town reads already.

[Sotty7]

That's supposed to say "reasoning for the scum read"

Hi everyone.

Howdy

[Sotty7]

Right now I'm feeling flexible.

Or maybe charitable is the right word.

[Sotty7]

My S is silent.

[Sotty7]

I dislike the how Juls hopped on without any questions.

Why does she need a question to lay a vote? BBT didn't ask one.

Sotty - You asked a question specifically about Scarab's post 22. Why did you choose that post?

Why do you think?

OK...sorry I was thinking IC in terms of newbie games and was confused as hell.

I was actually thinking the same thing.

Scarab got a lot better. He's right both the Skol and Juls wagons are bad, I have weak town reads on both of these slots as of right now. I as tempted to vote Ank or even PB as a result but I think I got a little better.

Vote: Zoronos

He gotta a lot of questions but not a lot of answers.

[Sotty7]

I don't think that was a joke post at all. It read like a serious enough reason to move his vote, but to me it made no scum motivational sense at all so it felt like a stretch plus he worded it pretty poorly.

As for meaningless questions I did explain why I picked that post when talking to Juls so when you came in and asked again I assumed it was you doing the latter.

[Sotty7]

Don't really like Garmr chiding the IC outage, I really don't think it is such a huge deal honestly. Not overly sure why he does. Seems out of place.

The Juls v Garmr battle seems to stem from a previous game which kinda taints the exchange a little with the emotion which could come from scum or town on both sides of the interaction.

you know there are certain experiences that cannot be discussed, right? I don't know for a fact in this game that he is, but I can make a conculsion based on my limited knowledge..

Yeah you can stop this now. You can play games without referancing on going games in such a vague manner. If you are really unable to explain why he is low hanging fruit in this game then don't put it out there in the first place. Skold seems more than capable of fighting his own battles anyway.

[Sotty7]

I will say Garmr's point about there being a link between Juls and ABR is right. Juls' explanation is fine enough for me, but it doesn't rub away the link.

[Sotty7]

Well Sotty thought the same thing. She's been around longer than I have but we make no excuses. We are just mere women. You know, stupid and stuff.

I don't think I have ever played in a game that has an Innocent child. At least not a normal game. I don't think it's a very good role personally but there is nothing I can do about that. If someone can explain why not knowing instantly that IC = Innocent child means that person is scumm I'd love to hear it. Otherwise this is just a point attacking character and is a bad reason to vote someone as it's not an alignment indicator.

I just like ABR and didn't really want to jump on that wagon.

Wait -- are you seriously saying that you allow your personal feelings toward fellow players to influence your gameplay?

Seriously?

In the early game game why the hell not?

Prolapsed Brain has been all over the map and I am half tempted to hammer just because of his terrible reasoning around both the Juls votes so far. I'm not really comfortable ending the day so early however, especially when a few players have barely contributed. Instead I would like to some more detail PB's Juls suspicion if there is any depth to it. A couple of other players are rubbing me the wrong way (Garmr and Zoronos) but I am trying to decide if that's scummy or if it is how they are.

[Sotty7]

I'm happy ABR is town and I echo Scrab's post above me.

Vote: Juls

I really want you to be town but there is something off the (limited) day one posting. A more detailed reasoning as to why you jumped on the PB wagon would be a good start.

[Sotty7]

Hey Jeanne, what are your reads atm?

[Sotty7]

Prolapsed Brain has been all over the map and I am half tempted to hammer just because of his terrible reasoning around both the Juls votes so far.

I pretty much said why and you parroted it. So why are you so confused all the sudden?

I'm not confused, I just want to know if there is anything more you have to add.

When I re-read the day you jumped on the Skold flash wagon, got overly emotional with Garmr and then voted PB. All of this combined really doesn't look so hot.

I mean, who's scum? You're a little too reactive right now instead of proactive.

[Sotty7]

Also, why exactly am I being blamed for his lynch? There were 2 votes after mine and a few before.

I mean this is excessive. Scum hunt maybe? I just don't see you probing anyone.

[Sotty7]

I'm interested in why BBT is a town read of yours. Sure he has posted a lot considering the shortness of the day but didn't seem to truly get out of RVS. I say that because he was a lot more relax/jokey than I have had experience with, but then I have only read games of his. This is my first actual game with him. He did feel natural so I'll give you that. I'm just really undecided with him so far.

I agree with Ank. The fact he posted today without voting for you despite having his vote on your throughout day one. I would have thought ABR's vote on you would have been a invitation to rejoin. I'm curious why he didn't.

I have changed my mind a little on Zoro. Now I look back can see why he felt Sacrab's post was jokey and I think he just words things in a way that sounds a little combative which raised my heckles. He did progress from questions to a little bit of reads.

Peacebringer is likely town. He's been scum hunting. His vote on me is just wrong, but that doesn't make him scum.

ABR is town because of passion. This is part of the reason I wanted to wagon him at the start of the game. It's always a good way to get him anchored into the game early. Getting him to react and work from that. Unfortunately the wagon not only fell apart, but the day was cut short which had me a little worried about him. His opening day one post was exactly what I expected from ABRTown, shitting on the bad hammer and calling out those he deemed could answer for it. I reserve the right to change my mind obviously but it just rubbed all kinds of the right way.

Do you have a read on Skold right now? How about Scarab?

[Sotty7]

99 - Sotty, if Scarab's vote made no motivational sense as scum; why did you try to address it as a scummy post?

That's my fault, I worded it badly.

because

OMGUS

he had to have noticed BBT's existence in the game before he saw my post and I think the fact that his message to BBT was posted after his vote for me was to draw attention away from the vote

I meant that his reasoning here made no sense for SkoldScum.

[Sotty7]

Juls wagon is bad.

What wagon? There are way too many people not voting right now or even doing anything remotely helpful to the game state. This game needs a wagon.

I am sad the Minnesoate Wild were swept by Chicago Blackhawks...

I'm sad about this too. It did happen awhile ago now, I think you can step out of your bereavement stage now.

Scarab's reasoning for his Zoro vote is just baffling. Voting because he actually thought about his actions? Isn't that the whole point of this game? If that's not what your driving at you're going to have to explain that one again. I must have read that explanation paragraph two or three times and I still don't get it.

Ank's replace out has me leaning slight town on that slot now. I'd be surprised if scum would lose their smile after a day/night cycle that we just had. Very light tell, but enough to pull him out of my current scum grouping for now.

[Sotty7]

ABR could be scum.

Nah.

Then you don't understand mafia.

I was more saying that it has nothing to do with the question BBT asked.
BRB ISO ABR.

ABR was answering a different question directed at him by BBT. He asked why ABR was voting Juls.

Scarab finally makes a decent-ish vote. I am still unsettled by his Zoro reasoning, but the move over to BBT is much better.

BBT playing badly = scum?

Starting to lean scum on Skold as well.

[Sotty7]

No. You said ABR was playing badly. You also seem to have a scum read on him.

Or did I miss read that?

[Sotty7]

ABR is playing badly. I know ABR is a good player, I can only assume this is his scum play. I don't see why he would refuse to explain his reasoning for Juls scum if he were town. I can see why he would refuse to explain his reasoning if he was scum.

But ABR plays like this as town all the time.

He'll get to an explanation eventually and actually I think it is already out there if you look hard enough.

[Sotty7]

Scarab, do you think Juls is manipulating BBT or BBT is pulling Juls strings?

I...what? Are you sure you chose the correct 2 names here? They haven't interacted at all

My only town reads are BBT and Jeanne. I would have said you D1 but this swing is off-putting.

[Sotty7]

Yeah, I don't care for meta. He should explain his reads/votes.

First part, yeah okay that's your thing. No meta I get it.

Second part, he actually has stated why. I guess I could quote it for you but I almost want to see if you can find it for yourself.

[Sotty7]

Yeah I did. You read it wrong or I worded it badly. Probably a bit of both.

I was making note that you said ABR was playing badly and that you have a scum read on him, wondering if they are related because playing badly doesn't equal scum.

I also don't think you are playing bad or are a bad player. I do think you're not reading as closely as some though. You missed the ABR reasoning and you missed that the mod already prodded Clusk in a vote count.

[Sotty7]

Yeah. I thought I explained it will enough with my follow up comment here:

No. You said ABR was playing badly. You also seem to have a scum read on him.

Or did I miss read that?

But I guess not.

[Sotty7]

Will = well

I guess I am just terrible at expressing my thoughts this game

[Sotty7]

If you can tell me why you aren't reading the game?

I'm happy ABR is town and I echo Scrab's post above me.

Vote: Juls

I really want you to be town but there is something off the (limited) day one posting. A more detailed reasoning as to why you jumped on the PB wagon would be a good start.

Prolapsed Brain has been all over the map and I am half tempted to hammer just because of his terrible reasoning around both the Juls votes so far.

I pretty much said why and you parroted it. So why are you so confused all the sudden?

I'm not confused, I just want to know if there is anything more you have to add.

When I re-read the day you jumped on the Skold flash wagon, got overly emotional with Garmr and then voted PB. All of this combined really doesn't look so hot.

I mean, who's scum? You're a little too reactive right now instead of proactive.

[Sotty7]

I'm here. What are you thinking about Skold Zoro? How about Juls?

[Sotty7]

I'd like to talk to him and investigate his reasoning, but he's making that hard.

Lets drag him in here then.

Vote: Skold

As for Juls she had a some what iffy day one, but really I just really want her to engage in the game to get a better read. If she's busy I'm not going to get that, no matter how long I park my vote there. Instead, lets try and get something going here.

[Sotty7]

I think you should vote him.

[Sotty7]

In all seriousness, I hope we're talking about whom Gamr would've visited on night one.

We're not really talking about it because it's pretty obvious I would think.

Also hi Red!

[Sotty7]

Why did you vote Juls then?

[Sotty7]

I pretty much have the same reads as Red expect I would switch BBT and Peace probably. That's based mostly on a gut read of Peace and the fact BBT didn't seem to be paying as much attention as I would expect. That's probably being too hard on BBT but I haven't really picked off any town posts from him yet so it kind of falls under a default weak scum read.

[Sotty7]

BBT didn't seem to be paying as much attention as I would expect

Can you elaborate on this a bit? Unless you mean not paying attention during D1. My main contention for BBT town is I'm sold on his reread of the game. Do you think it was all flash and no substance? It read to me like he was making an honest-to-goodness effort to catch up for a poor start the town had. I especially was turned on by the idea that he was getting so much resistance from Scarab for it. I think it would be hard to fake that level of needing to play catchup.

When I say not paying attention I'm talking about having to hold his hand on both ABR's and my own reasoning for voting Juls despite the info already being in the thread. I can pretty much forgive him for missing the ABR reasoning because it was a little burried in there, but mine was pretty clear I would have thought. It felt like he was poking around to look like he was doing stuff. At this point I am willing to lean on yours and ABR's reasoning for finding him town, because I realize missing posts can happen as scum or town. I just haven't seen anything that screams town to me.

As for his catch up I wasn't wowed by his conclusions. The Clusk vote had little behind it and the protecting of Juls seemed out of place. So yeah, I can believe scum could fake his posts.

[Sotty7]

Skold. have you considered replacing out? You may be a bit too busy to play this game right now.

I would really hate it if Skold had to replace out, but we do need some action in this game. This day seems to consist of waiting around for whoever is being run up to actually come in and play the game. It's getting frustrating.

[Sotty7]

Sounds like a deal to me.

Now if we can get the other 3/4's of this game actually playing that would be awesome.

[Sotty7]

Prolapsed Brain has been all over the map and I am half tempted to hammer just because of his terrible reasoning around both the Juls votes so far. I'm not really comfortable ending the day so early however, especially when a few players have barely contributed. Instead I would like to some more detail PB's Juls suspicion if there is any depth to it. A couple of other players are rubbing me the wrong way (Garmr and Zoronos) but I am trying to decide if that's scummy or if it is how they are.

Curious about this...what's the minimum that would have needed to happen after this for you to hammer if Garmr hadn't hammered in the very next post

At the time I wanted a lot more ABR, I hadn't had the chance to read him yet. Ank had barely posted and what he had posted had been all about the bad day one wagon of Juls. So him too. So I was looking to at least get a couple of pages that several included posts by both. I can't even tell you if that would have been enough as I was still trying to read both Zoro and Garmr, but that would have been the minimum.

[Sotty7]

Please don't put your answers inside the quotes. Makes it super hard to read.

[Sotty7]

Three days basically till deadline, lets get some urgency going. I get the distinct feeling that Skold is trying to drag the day out until deadline. I see little effort and no obvious scum hunting, my vote is good where it is. I wouldn't be against a Scarab vote come deadline, but at this point I very much favour a Skold lynch.

[Sotty7]

No idea. It's getting pretty ridiculous now.

[Sotty7]

I really hate PBPA's/ISOs mainly because you can go though any players ISO and write a scum narrative for them, it's pretty easy. Give me a impassioned plea as to why ABR is scum, tell me what he did and why that is so bad. I guess I'm just not feeling it. You don't seem to believe yourself Skold so why should I?

It's all so flat.

[Sotty7]

Nah, it would be silly to not lynch one of the two wagons that we have had fighting against each other for most of the Day.

Today's lynch needs to be Skold or Scarab.

I agree!

RC - Let's say you're right, and that Skold isn't scum.
Let's further say I'm right and that Scarab also isn't scum. (I don't know this for sure, but it's the read I got, so for the purposes of this hypothetical we're going to use it).

Who's the best compromise choice in your opinion?

Juls' slot.

But this was an excellent answer to that question. Like

really

good.

Just an FYI if the deadline doesn't get extended I will be at work when it hits. I'll be around the rest of the evening however, peeking in as I can.

[Sotty7]

Juls

[Sotty7]

Yeah, we're not lynching Sns. Skold is lurking this day out, it's really screaming scum. He's posted just enough to avoid replacement but not enough to actually not be lurking. He needs to die in a fire already.

[Sotty7]

Holy shit Equinox! I didn't know you still played. I was just talking with Zach about how I enjoyed playing with you "back in the day".

Also you replaced the IC, I think that is fitting. Equinox confirmed town reads on this game would be awesome. No need to ISO people, it's a pretty easy read I think.

Yeah, we're not lynching Sns. Skold is lurking this day out, it's really screaming scum. He's posted just enough to avoid replacement but not enough to actually not be lurking. He needs to die in a fire already.

This isn't quite one sentence, but it's pretty to the point.

[Sotty7]

Which is why we need to get as much outta her as possible.

[Sotty7]

It's not. It was scummy then, it's scummy now.

I see your point RE: Scarab and lurking but I get a slight town feel from his posting more than I do Skold.

Maybe I am making an effort=town misread here, but I really think Skold is a better lynch at this point.

[Sotty7]

Skold, sell me on ABR scum already.

[Sotty7]

@Equinox I really wasn't hoping to get anything by that question. I just really like RVS.

If you ignore me in your next post I'm treating it as a scum claim.

ABR, why don't you give this game the love it deserves? You know this is probably the best playerlist you'll have all year...

Ditto here. Get back in here and town it up already.

[Sotty7]

Replacement city, but it's okay we have a scum claim. Lets do this. We're at L-1 with a Zoro potential hammer out there. Time for a claim.

[Sotty7]

2) Sotty7, look at Skold's profile for a second. How likely do you think his behavior and sudden lack of cooperation is due to what is on his profile, rather than his alignment? (Yes, I'm rather tactless.) Do you think this behavior is likely from Skold-scum with Day talk?

I do think his popping in and out behavior looks like scum with day talk. The posting before prodding, doing the minimum. It's like he is being dragged into the thread every time. Extremely different from the start of day one.

I took a brief look at his profile and I see what your getting at. There looks to be minimum activity across the board. I just don't know why when I appeal to him directly at least twice to fully convince me that we should be voting ABR he simply ignores it. He doesn't believe in his own vote, that looks clear to me.

I mean I'm a goon. Since not making a point of addressing Sotty is a scumclaim. Apparently.
@BBT what was that vote? Do you genuinely think it was scummy for me to ignore Sotty being an ass? If I remember correctly he wanted the reasons I thought ABR were scum. They were fairly clearly laid out in the post where I picked his ISO.

And if you read my response I said that this reasoning was very bare and uninspiring. I wanted a direct plea from you, I wanted a little passion. I wanted you to convince me that you really believed ABR was scum. Right now I just think you think that you have a vote in a place that looks good. There is a difference.

Sotty, I'm effectively conceding to you this day with this Skold lynch. I'm not arrogant enough to say that I could stop it if I tried very hard, but I will say that I have not put my full weight behind stopping it. As the seconds tick down, I grow increasingly sure this will be a town lynch, not because Skold has been playing particularly well, but because I see such scum in Peace, sns and Scarab.

I don't know if this is enough time or whatever, but I am willing to put Peace back on the table and ditch our deal. His day one contribution has been extremely poor and I might be doubting my Skold read a little.

[Sotty7]

Yeah, he's probably right. No time for cold feet. I'm committed.

[Sotty7]

Putting pressure on Peace and him showing up right away is making me itch a little. But then what do I expect?

I don't really find his vote and unvote of me to be all that troubling. What I did find questionable is his lack of any effort today.

At this point with no futher extenstions we need to get back on Skold. SnS ain't happening, Peace was the only flash wagon I was semi tempted to join. Lets not kid ourselves.

[Sotty7]

sns is now the leading wagon

It won't be at the end of the day

[Sotty7]

And Peace, I expected Scum hunting. It's the same thing I expect of everyone. It was my sole reasoning for my town read on day one. You basically stopped until just now. If it is because of laziness, fine, just stop slacking and we'll be fine.

AKA keep posting and don't sit back just because others are.

[Sotty7]

The point is your effort has increased again. This makes me happy. If I sat here and called all the lurkers out it would be over half the player list. You were the focus because of my deal with Red, that's all.

Your second post I don't understand. You might have to be clearer.

[Sotty7]

I don't know how much clearer I can be when I say we're not lynching sns today.

Do you have a scum read of me Peace? I'm not really interested in answering such a loaded question really.

[Sotty7]

I never asked you that question, I made an observation based on your in thread behavior up until this evening.

I'm down with scum hunting, you just seem a little reactionary now. You're taking it personal that I am questioning your scum hunting and are turning on me as a result. You seemed perfectly fine with me up until then.

[Sotty7]

To spell out, the people on SnS need to unvote. Don't lynch him while I sleep.

Red putting his vote there instead of on Peace I find a little scummy. He managed to drum up some Peace support but went off in a different direction with less than 12 hours until deadline. Seems unproductive and a little dangerous at this point.

I'm going to bed.

[Sotty7]

If we fail to achicive a lynch today I am holding Red directly responsible, this is bullshit.

BBT

please

get back on Skold already.

[Sotty7]

Unofficial vote count as of right now

Skold

(5): Sotty7, Albert B. Rampage, snscompt1, PeaceBringer, BlueBloodedToffee

snscompt1

(2): Skold, RedCoyote

PeaceBringer

(1): Juls

BlueBloodedToffee

(1): pisskop

Not Voting

(2): Equinox, Zoronos

Thank you BBT. Now someone grow the balls to get in here and hammer.

[Sotty7]

Because Pisskop is probably scum

Juls was expecting a flash wagon that Red backed off from

Equinox is confirmed town and so smartly wants other players with unknown alignments to have voting records

And Zoro is still afarid of another fast hammer despite the fact the exact opposite of that has happened today

[Sotty7]

You're welcome!

[Sotty7]

I am and will hold you directly accountable for derailing a lynch -1 wagon the day before deadline and being the reason we are two hours from the end of day still with no lynch.

[Sotty7]

Can you tell me why you didn't move on to a Peace flash wagon Red? There seemed to be actual momutem there and we were all discussing it. Instead to moved over to SnS who had barely been discussed this day.

[Sotty7]

I will help the Skold wagon finish should it be necessary, but I'm absolutely not culpable for players like BBT, Juls, sns and Peace (whomever is town among them) actually wanting to scumhunt and move their vote around. I'm also not responsible for players like Zoro (and E to an extent, though she was saddled with a short deadline after replacing in so I don't really blame her) that treat their votes like they're best used "in theory" on other players.

Fair enough, but I look at your vote as the one that gave a random SnS wagon actual traction with no real chance of achieving a lynch.

[Sotty7]

Because Juls was the only one that actually moved that I could see. Since she undercut my biggest scumread's wagon (pisskop), we were effectively trading my biggest scumread for my second biggest. It's moot at this point because in reality it was only myself, Juls, sns and BBT seemingly willing to consider other options with you and Zoro teasing us with your vote, ABR in lala land, and Equinox not much of a factor either.

And myself and the time.

Tell me who was willing to switch to SnS?

[Sotty7]

Okay BBT, look at my lips. Are you looking? Yes?

Okay.

SnS is not scum.

Alright?

The slot isn't scum.

I am speaking with perfect enunciation here.

SnS isn't scum.

Now with this statement and Reds actions do you understand my reaction?

[Sotty7]

Green Crayons replaces snscompt1.

[Sotty7]

How am I your top town read still? I'm getting a little sick of your "welp what can I do?" reactions right now.

You might have been able to convince me to move to Scarab's slot really. I was warming up to Peace but you picked SnS, why? I still don't get

[Sotty7]

Good news/bad news Red died. Keeps me from being distracted today for sure.

I am basically just home from work + other stuff so I will catch up for sure tomorrow.

[Sotty7]

Okay I have read the opening day stuff and I am liking GC's push on BBT and BBT's reaction to just deflect back onto GC is just all kinds of awful. That said, I'm not comfortable placing a L-1 vote as of right now. I still want to get a re-read in and pay some attention to Red's ISO. There has to be a reason why the scum killed him over the confirmed innocent child. I also only have two substantial scum reads right now - BBT and PK, both of which I really need to review with the latest flips.

Juls is edging in as a possible 3rd scum, just something about her tone. I don't like the push on Zoro too much. The non voting thing is solid, but the rest... eh not so much.

Basically I have work to do in this game before I'm comfortable placing a vote.

[Sotty7]

You're scum reading me now?

What's so bad about my reaction?

I basically hate your GC read and the way you push back just "because he is scum" Doesn't feel very proactive. I've also had a weak scum read on you for most of the game I believe.

Sotty's blind town read of GC yesterday is coming back to me like a bad hangover.

Come on man.

I'm not a huge fan of VCA's, but I'll admit that one with Juls looks bad. That just could be my bias shining though though so I think I'm just going to set it to one side.

[Sotty7]

Sotty, where are you?

At work Been busy this week. Looking to invest some time in here now though.

Juls singling out Zoronod was weird, that's the only thing that struck me, otherwise she seems more like she's busy than anything.

Busy as in not scum hunting but just looking active? Yeah I get that. My problem with Juls is pretty much tone, which is not a strong thing to hold over someones head. Scum caught for the wrong reasons maybe? I dunno.

RC would have been pushing that slot pretty fucking hard Today and for him to be killed over an IC...that needs to be addressed.

This is a pretty solid point that I'm willing to entertain. I'm looking at the VC and he has no votes right now? That's pretty fucking bizarre.

Vote: pisskop

[Sotty7]

Juls:

Back on day two you listed BBT as town read and I wanted you to detail why. You never got back round to that because you replaced out and back in again and it got lost in the shuffle. Can you explain what you were thinking about BBT back then?

[Sotty7]

I think it's 50% is town. Maybe more. Pisskop's vote gives me a lot of pause. I keep wavering on if you're scum or not. I liked how you called out ABR early day two but I also like GC's points on you. Juls could be voting you out of frustration and Peace seems to be wagoning.

I don't really hate it, but I don't understand why you're number one right now and not Pisskop. I'm still re-reading to help me sort people better.

[Sotty7]

Hoooooow did town lose this? All that confirmed town.

Not only did we lose but we didn't lynch one scum. I feel extremely terrible about that fact in particular.

That said I enjoyed playing with you guys again. Juls replacing back in as scum was ballsy, lots of love for that. ABR, your scum game has gotten better, and PK you were very disarming, in a good way.

Much love to the mod for putting this on. I need to really scrub up my game still! This is going to sting for a long time.

[Sotty7]

Also <3 DRK

[Sotty7]

Oh you can relase the mason topic.

It's mostly me pouting because no one wanted to play and then breaking the game the night I died