Mini 1682 - Game Over

[Slandaar]

I haven't done anything scummy.

You sure?

ANOTHER DEFENSIVE MOVE OOoOoOOoO

BB is very defensive.

(Also I dont feel like lawlgambiting and ruining more games for Slandaar).

Good.

fairly confident scum ahven't even posted yet

I checked the online status of the members who haven't posted and this is the result as of this post, to see who might be lurking.

FA_Q2 - Online

Slandaar - Online
YurikoJasmine - Offline
1baldeagle1 - Online
Drakced - Offline

whispersilk - Online

havingfitz - Online

So, basically, everyone who hasn't posted is lurking. What do you think the chance is that the results you gained were accurate?

Lurking has nothing to do with alignment. Also, I'm pretty sure I wasn't logged in at that time because I just found out that the game started 15 mins ago.

No, you were lurking, just admit it.

I don't think it was even on this site either.

Anyhow, Annie. Where be Slandaarman?

I was lurking, please view Anna's post for confirmation.

I'm just saying it's unneeded and kinda scummy.

And in response to 150, I'm not claiming I'm not Town.

So, you are claiming to be town then?

Where the fuck is Slandaar I'm seriously surrounded by fucking idiots

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16026

Copy that into address bar

that is how I play scum

Meta can be manipulated and you seem to be aware of your meta so you could just be playing scum differently than the last game.

This is a very good dissection of his defence. No meta defences allowed here!

VOTE: Anna

[Slandaar]

Eh I will explain it.

Anna pointed the finger at those who hadn't posted using someone elses opinion/reads (Molla) and piled on Molla in a terrible (soft) way.

[Slandaar]

It doesn't really matter if the results are accurate or not; The point is you only did it after Molla said something like 'I think the scum haven't posted' so you went and checked who was lurking and posted a convenient list of names for him. It wasn't your opinion the scum hadn't posted. You then didn't do anything with it while suggesting the 5 of us were lurking and I assume you think this is scummy (otherwise why did you do it in the first place?).

[Slandaar]

Why Anna over FAQ Slandaar

They made different posts? FAQ did not make the posts Anna made which I find terrible.

Can you explain why you noted my defensiveness Sladaar, were you just saying I'm defensive as a player

Obviously joking.

[Slandaar]

BaldEagle is perhaps the towniest person to ever exist.

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar: Any other scum reads besides Anna?

Yes I have other suspects.

What do you think of the wagon on BB?

I don't see a legitimate reason for it.

Correct me if I'm wrong

It is a question I look forward to him answering.

[Slandaar]

About the online thing, I thought that if the online thing was blank that meant online. In hindsight that post wasn't a good idea and it's the reason for votes on me.

It is part of the reason for my vote.

I find the other reason I gave stronger. I dislike you suggesting meta defences are WIFOM while not being part of the wagon yourself. It is a soft attack and piles on pressure unnecessarily and for seemingly no town reason.

@Slandaar: Any other scum reads besides Anna?

Yes I have other suspects.

Who are they and why?

Secrets.

Initially I got a null read from Anna, but after looking at her abandonded newbie game I'm leaning newbie town.

I disagree.

What exactly is similar to here?

2. I feel right now the game is moving too fast

and the dust is going every which way

so I don't feel my posts would add much right now.

'I don't wanna make a decision until I see what people are doing.' Link

No such post was made as town.

[Slandaar]

I am going off the way

I

play.

I see.

VOTE: FA_Q2

[Slandaar]

He is just wrong for one reason or another.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, what do you have on me?

Why do you think I have something on you?

[Slandaar]

You assume wrongly.

I haven't seen your meta and don't feel like looking at it currently.

[Slandaar]

If I don't does that mean I should be voting you?

[Slandaar]

I am going off the way

I

play.

I see.

VOTE: FA_Q2

Based on?

Really, no fucking case on me at all.

I think you are scum atm. Reads change though

[Slandaar]

It means you put you vote on someone else.

I am currently voting someone else, yes.

I think you talked about how people should not argue their meta to prove their alignment. I don't know if you classify me describing my meta as a defense or not, but you weren't one quick on my wagon even after you saw, and quoted, an answer I had regarding my meta, loosely tied to it, a defense.

I don't know what you are saying really but it's wrong.

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Drakced

[Slandaar]

Slandaar you ever heard of a bus.

Because that Drakced voted could look like one

Or scum looking to banwagon

What is the point you are trying to make here?

I'll change my vote to

VOTE: FA_Q2

Cause they seem the most scum at the moment.

Of course.

[Slandaar]

The chance he is scum has decreased a lot.

What is the point you were trying to make?

[Slandaar]

I'll change my vote to

VOTE: FA_Q2

Cause they seem the most scum at the moment.

FA is looking more and more like scum for sure.

The chance he is scum has decreased a lot.

What is the point you were trying to make?

I dont like FA's wagon. I never did.

What?

[Slandaar]

So we return to; what was the point you were trying to make?

[Slandaar]

Do you think Anna/Drakc are bussing their buddy or wagoning town based on their lazy votes?

You know what I think is most likely.

Sala: You hear of bus?
Sala: Scum bandwagoning town.

Both situations the Person making the action is scum and in only one is the recipient scum.

So, why do you question me on moving vote?

[Slandaar]

that appear scummy to the rest of us

Hm?

Initially I got a null read from Anna, but after looking at her abandonded newbie game I'm leaning newbie town. I don't believe the online/lurking thing is enough to justify a scum read. I see it as nothing more than an inexperienced player on this site trying to help scumhunt and not knowing any better. I don't like the votes on her and see them as weak and having poor justification.

Posts since 207:

I currently don't have any super strong reads. I'm feeling null for now. I feel that BB is being over defensive and I don't see why they need to go all out defense this early.

About the online thing, I thought that if the online thing was blank that meant online. In hindsight that post wasn't a good idea and it's the reason for votes on me.

Who are they and why?

It's still left over from RVS

I'll change my vote to

VOTE: FA_Q2

Cause they seem the most scum at the moment.

331 isn't good but to my knowledge only I have indicated as such otherwise the above posts are fine.

tripping up over themselves to look so obviously bad.

New players don't know they are looking obviously bad because they are...new.

[Slandaar]

I'm saying that Anna has drawn attention to herself by doing things and making posts that appear scummy to other players, yourself included.

You included too;

that appear scummy to the rest of us

So, you think she was acting scummy, yet never said so in your prior post. I then quoted all her posts after your first post showing what could have changed your opinion which was only the one post.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Sometimes but not here no.

I'm glad you did because it prompted me to ISO you next to confirm that you were one of the people that found Anna very suspicious.

Is this supposed to mean something?

If the other posts are all fine, why were you still voting Anna until post #271?

The reasons I posted prior to the 4 quoted posts.

And why then hop from voting FA to Drakced, who Anna was still voting for at the time?

Yes, she was voting him from RVS and she quickly moved off with my vote.

It would be nice if you could give real answers to those that are asking you questions, because up until now your answers have been obtuse, vague or otherwise unhelpful.

Ah, perhaps you can answer my question to you that you must have missed:

Initially I got a null read from Anna, but after looking at her abandonded newbie game I'm leaning newbie town.

I disagree.

What exactly is similar to here?

[Slandaar]

@GG: did you find this answer sufficient?

@Anna why do you think that FA is more scum than LQ?

Because of their posts

(@Anna)


Why do you think FA is scum?
Why are you posting so little?

[Slandaar]

2. Cause There are so many people posting already I feel there is little point in posting a bunch when their are already people doing that.

By contributing to the discussion and actively scumhunting you could find/help find scum.

You

do

want to find scum?

[Slandaar]

Your actions suggest otherwise. I believe the saying is actions speak louder than words.

You are a lurkaderp scum but had no such problems as town. Whisper is going to explain why she thinks differently but until then I suggest you start posting.

[Slandaar]

Or I can be a lurkaderp in some games and a more talkative in other games independent of being scum or town.

Perhaps. I think those who lurk as scum don't do so as a strategy this removes a large part of your range ie active town and assuming I am correct this leaves your range very scum heavy. I am asking you to prove me wrong. (On mobile if someone doesn't understand will explain better later)

[Slandaar]

Trust I am right.

Lynch Drakced.

[Slandaar]

Trust I am right.

Lynch Drakced.

What's your vote on me for? You put your vote on me when I joined the FA_Q2 wagon, but besides that, why?

You cannot stick to reads.

They always flow in the direction the wind is blowing

[Slandaar]

BBmolla as a rather aggressive townie and LQ as lean town.

I'm going to VOTE: BBmolla

I've been voting BBmolla because he was being ridiculously defensive and rather hostile. But now, FA_Q2 has been getting more hostile then BB was. BB has calmed down, but is still active, not like a mafia would do and just disappear for a while. I'm thinking FAQ could be Mafia. Also, I don't really feel like LQ is scum.

VOTE: FA_Q2

Why are you fine with lynching LQ

I'm thinking lean-Scum

- Drakced was 4th on Molla who he flipped his read on.
- Drakced was 5th on FAQ - Voting when FAQ wagon overtook Molla wagon.
- Flipped read on LQ when if he moves vote from FAQ to LQ it makes LQ leading wagon - no support for LQ lynch prior to this.

He is just moving to the largest wagon all the time.

[Slandaar]

As for my changing opinion on LQ, it's not like it wouldn't change over the course of 372 posts.

1. Yes.
2. I was one of the last on the FAQ wagon. It took me awhile to read BBmolla as Town after his wagon, but as soon as I town read him, I changed my vote.
3. Unless something major happens, I plan to keep my vote on FAQ and not change it to LQ. Even if LQ has a larger wagon.

I understand your defence.

Too many coincidental read changes.

[Slandaar]

What about a third option seems you won't vote the second option?

[Slandaar]

@slandar (Quote got messed up)
"@GG: did you find this answer sufficient?"

I would love it if you could go into more detail, but if you don't want to thats ok.

Did the answer help you in your scumhunting? if not, why didn't you follow it up?

Do you agree with moll about FA "not believing what he posts/says"?

No. You can say that about anyone you think is scum.

@Anna: Considering GG failed to follow up her questioning I will do it for her. What do you think of LQ?

[Slandaar]

I would and I could!

But...

Anna and Drakced's votes pester me

What?

[Slandaar]

Thank you for your question Baldeagle.

I shall answer your question as best I can. You asked: Do you have any other scum reads besides Drak? My response is: Yes, I do have other scum reads besides Drak!

If I can be of any further assistance don't hesitate to get in contact with me.

[Slandaar]

Drak says both wagons are fine, but not voting them.

Wtf?

Aren't I voting FA_Q2?

Well, just in case: VOTE: FA_Q2

Uh I believe you forgot to answer my question Drakced.

[Slandaar]

FA you should claim.

[Slandaar]

Drak, Molla/LQ, Whisper.

I had the third as you.

Your post instills confidence in me.

Whisper/Drak/GG

You good Sala

[Slandaar]

I am unsure who to vote will think about it a bit.

LQ should obviously be voting FA.

[Slandaar]

But if one of the wagons is scum, then a no lynch would be better

Would it?

[Slandaar]

Let's just recap shall we...

If one of two wagons is scum you think it's better if we lynch neither.

I like the picture it's a good distraction tactic.

[Slandaar]

I don't want to lynch FA or LQ so eh. I will hammer one of them if they are L-1 but I won't be around right till deadline so...

[Slandaar]

I was one of the last off BB and one of the last onto FAQ. And when LQ

You were one of the last on BB
Last off BB
Last on FA
You were beginning to turn your head to LQ when he had the largest wagon at which point I provided the case and then you felt you couldn't move vote so purposefully stayed even when in actuality it was townier to switch in said situation.

Yep.

VOTE: Drakced

[Slandaar]

I agree. I think that drakced is just a newbe. Sure he did some suspicious things

, but there are other people who have done way scummier things. I might be willing to lynch him day 2 or 3 if he does anything else, but he is not my priority lynch at the moment.

Buddies.

[Slandaar]

Nope.

[Slandaar]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... ct[]=16026

Copy that into address bar

that is how I play scum

Meta can be manipulated and you seem to be aware of your meta so you could just be playing scum differently than the last game.

Exactly. Why do you use your meta so much as defense when you can just change it?

And having freaking 8 post

in a row

doesn't help get your point across better.

Hey Annadog40? What is your vote on me for? Or is it still left over from RVS?

It's still left over from RVS

Okay

hrm.

VOTE: Drakced

I'll change my vote to

VOTE: FA_Q2

Cause they seem the most scum at the moment.

hrm.

[Slandaar]

Why did you kill Salamence last night Anna?

[Slandaar]

I like to assume though

So... it was Drakced who killed him?

[Slandaar]

I'm also not really seeing LQ as Scum. He seems like more of a newbie Town.

I'm fine with an LQ lynch, even though I'm not totally scum reading him.

I said I'm not

totally

scum reading him. I'm thinking lean-Scum, not "LQ is definitely scum and we should lynch him right now."

[Slandaar]

I hear you ask what happened in those magical 50 posts where Drakced changed his read?

Allow me to enlighten you!

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

RadiantCowbells (1) - whispersilk
YurikoJasmine (1) - RadiantCowbells
1baldeagle1 (1) - YurikoJasmine
Drakced (1) - Slandaar
BBmolla (1) - FA_Q2
whispersilk (1) - Salamence20
Salamence20 (1) - LicketyQuickety

All these people need to move their votes.

VOTE: LQ

I can go for an LQ lynch over that very bad lie and resulting piss poor excuse for it.

VOTE: LQ

[Slandaar]

I'm also not really seeing LQ as Scum.

He seems like more of a newbie Town.

I called LQ newbie town in a way that I meant he is not great at being townish,

which is the same as being scum.

I see.

[Slandaar]

Just because I don't have the same view as you about Drakced, does not make us "buddies". I find that accusation weak.

Based on the lack of votes we can conclude 11 yesterday and 10 today do not have the same view as me. I don't think everyone is his buddy. Your defence is weak.

The point, of course, is the awful newbie defence while telling everyone you would lynch him D2/3 if he does something else which is just covering your bases.

[Slandaar]

Why did you kill Salamence last night Anna?

Not sure if this is sarcasm, but I don't like the assuming.

Of course you don't.

I wasn't assuming anything not that it matters. Why can't I assume my scumread killed Salamence last night?

[Slandaar]

^ Then why don't you vote for your scum read?

I have more than 1 and only 1 vote.

How do you propose I solve this problem?

[Slandaar]

Drak, Molla/LQ, Whisper.

I had the third as you.

Your post instills confidence in me.

Whisper/Drak/GG

You good Sala

Can you explain this post, particularly the bolded?

Explain what? that post is pretty self explanatory.

Explain to me why you are not voting Drak after:

I'm also not really seeing LQ as Scum.

He seems like more of a newbie Town.

I called LQ newbie town in a way that I meant he is not great at being townish,

which is the same as being scum.

I see.

[Slandaar]

Explain what?

Were the bolded your scum pool at the time?

No. It was who I felt was the scumteam by eliminating Anna/Drakced as buddies which I later decided to discard based on their ridiculous individual levels of pure scumminess.

You didn't answer my question Persivul.

^ Then why don't you vote for your scum read?

I have more than 1 and only 1 vote.

How do you propose I solve this problem?

Hm. . . . . I propose that you vote for the scum read that isn't me.

I am currently doing that so you don't need to propose this and it really doesn't tackle the problem.

Perhaps a solution would be everyone just vote who I tell them. Yeah! This could work! I like how you think Anna!

Anna vote Drakced.

[Slandaar]

So, yes, it was your scum pool at the time?

No. I definitely said the answer is no.

Scum team and Scum pool are not the same things.

@Slandaar: point is that you seem to be picking on the weaker players. That way you appear to be scum hunting, while not drawing reflexive attention from stronger players.

Of course. The poor weaker players can't be scum!

Fact is the 'strength' of the player doesn't represent their position in the gamestate and this is what is important when determining the people going for easy targets. You meet this requirement much better than I do.

[Slandaar]

From my POV Fitz is the easiest target in the game having tunnelled town all D1.

[Slandaar]

Yeah I don't think that is what you were trying to say. You could have just said it. Besides you are literally saying you called him town but meant scum while saying you don't see him as scum. So he is town but you mean scum but he's not scum

Makes absolutely no sense.

Let's keep going then with the nonsense. What changed your mind?

[Slandaar]

1. Has no relevance.
2. Unacceptable answer.

Prodding whispersilk, Drakced, and FA_Q2.

Sorry, I'm here, just haven't had much to say. I'm fine with an LQ lynch, even though I'm not totally scum reading him.

I don't believe you ISO'ed him. You just said it as a passing comment after being prodded.

Why did you think LQ was town?
What changed your mind when you ISOed him?

[Slandaar]

I'm also not really seeing LQ as Scum.

He seems like more of a newbie Town.

I called LQ newbie town in a way that I meant

he is not great at being townish,

which is the same as being scum.

I see.

Red Bold

is using the past tense Referencing

Green Bold

This means Drakced is talking about his meaning of the first quote in the second. Very clear.

This means the Bolded relate while they contradict each other completely.

[Slandaar]

If you weren't assuming anything, then why did you say that? Are you her scum buddy, therefore you know who is scum?

To lead onto the next question.

What does it accomplish by asking your scum read that? Whether they are scum or town, I think they would answer "I didn't kill them."
If you like playing like that, why did you kill Sala last night?

I didn't.

Now we are talking about the point to things perhaps we can get your answer from a while back regarding;

@GG: did you find this answer sufficient?

@Anna why do you think that FA is more scum than LQ?

Because of their posts

[Slandaar]

A. I hadn't been paying much attention to LQ and kind of just labeled him as newb town.

So you were making up reads. I do believe that.

B. He didn't seem trustworthy, was

defending him self very little, and just seemed kind of weak overall.

Not scummy enough for me to vote for him, but enough for me to switch my opinion from newb town to lean scum.

So in effect he was an easy target.

I believe that too.

[Slandaar]

If you had read my post a while ago about your question you would have seen why I didn't answer it. Honestly I forgot the context of this question, and I don't understand what you're asking me. I find that it's not really relevant to today...is it?

The context is thus:
GG asked a bunch of questions.
Anna answered.

All I want to know is if the answer you received gave you what you were looking for or not.

It is relevant whether you like it or not.

You didn't answer my question: What do you accomplish by asking your scum read that question?

It allows me to ask the next question. I, in fact, did answer this.

From my POV Fitz is the easiest target in the game having tunnelled town all D1.

...why couldn't scum do that

I said nothing about alignment. Easy targets can be scum. Why couldn't town?

[Slandaar]

Drak was 4th on BB's wagon. That's dead center. Neither near the beginning or near the last on it.
He was not the last person on the BB wagon. There was someone still on it (idr atm).
I didn't think he was last on FA...I could be wrong but either way...his move to FA who was and still is a popular suspect was no worse that the last two votes on LQ.

So the misrepping assessment of "blatant wagon hopping" is not described well by Slandaar.

Ridiculous.

4th is only dead centre if the wagon makes it to 7 votes. It clearly did not therefore is not dead centre. But that is beside the point really - The positions were not to be taken completely literally... I didn't go and get numbers but they are a fair representation of his actions.

Thanks for explaining. Yes I found that answer sufficient at the time. I don't see the relevance.

I guess I don't understand your answer then. Ask what next question?

I think anyone who looks at it will agree it wasn't a sufficient answer if you actually wanted an answer to the question. The relevance is it helps determine your alignment obviously.

I then asked her if it was Drakced which she never answered. The point was of course to drag her into conversation but she is very bad at that.

[Slandaar]

Wow, it's strange how much the game has slowed down.

Because Slandaar wasn't around for a day.

Good job.

I am lurking for a bit had enough of this game.

[Slandaar]

I also don't like his post #604 from day 1. He says: "I don't want to lynch FA or LQ so eh. I will hammer one of them if they are L-1 but I won't be around right till deadline so..."
I don't understand the reasoning behind this post... Seems like he is just giving himself an excuse to hop on either wagon and hammer. I know he didn't end up hoping on any of the wagons, but still I don't like the thought process of that post at all.

Well then. Fitz and Anna, thoughts on Slandaar?

I'm getting scum vibes from Slandaar. I feel they are very evasive.

You know, VOTE: Slandaar

I don't like the fitz wagon and FA_Q2 has been inactive for awhile. Even if no one else votes, thats my vote for now.

[Slandaar]

No lynch is the best lynch

?

That is scummy as hell. No lynch is a shitty option.

Um yeah that should have been kinda obvious...? Interesting.

I am doing no more scumhunting until someone else in this town does something remotely useful.

[Slandaar]

575 + 740 = scum.

There is no if, but or any other excuse for any of you clowns not to see it.

[Slandaar]

That's a great post GG perhaps I was wrong about you...

[Slandaar]

But you still think she could be scum, Persivul.

After my null read on Anna, I ISO'ed her and she doesn't seem scum, but not particularly towny either.

Persivul votes Anna.

Speak for yourself

VOTE: annadog

You're flipping more than a flap jack.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHYiyv68q2o

Persivul, I think Anna is townish and the pool parties are just for fun

In conclusion Anna and Drakced are weak players so they are not scum. Persivul is the scum. He only votes easy wagons Anna, Drakced, Fitz and myself after I said I was lurking.

VOTE: Persivul

[Slandaar]

RC is scum he is trying to whiteknight me.
Molla is scum because gut and he was very defensive early in the game.

So, those are my new scumreads, no problems town we all buddies again! I got new original scumreads on experienced players and very good reasons! lets lynch them!

[Slandaar]

Definitely should lynch Persivul first because he was pinging me hardest picking on easy targets. Very scummy. I cannot possibly argue against his reasoning for picking said easy targets all I can do is simply say they are easy targets. He is definitely scum.

[Slandaar]

I don't believe he believes what he says.

[Slandaar]

OK! I answer your question FA!

575 + 740 = scum.

There is no if, but or any other excuse for any of you clowns not to see it.

Well, THIS clown aint seeing why those posts are so bad. I have GG as a scum lean for completely different reasons. Post 740 is actually one of her more towny posts - it begs the question as to Why you would hammer either of us but NOT push for your preferred lynch.

What makes this so obviously scum in your book?

in 575 and a few posts thereafter GG suggests nolynch is beneficial to scum.
in 740 GG suggests me saying I will hammer someone at deadline to ensure a lynch is scummy.

Cannot think both.

I have since applied very high level thinking to my reads and concluded this cannot possibly be correct.

Change your avatar to a clown and vote Persivul with me.

[Slandaar]

Just like how molla didn't think that FA believed what he said?

Yeah. It's a good argument!

[Slandaar]

I would gladly lynch you, Anna, just in order to be rid of you.

This is very hostile posting.

Drakced let's lynch him?

[Slandaar]

RadiantCowbells is scum this game that's why!

[Slandaar]

Anna are you around for a quickfire question and answer session? well what I mean is I have one question and you need to answer it quickly. Are you ready to participate?

[Slandaar]

Great! I knew you would be around!

Where have I been evasive?

[Slandaar]

What is suspicious about that?

[Slandaar]

Probably should have asked me 600 posts ago then, eh?

[Slandaar]

You are right I probably wouldn't have answered the question you asked. I was suggesting you should have asked for the reason I said secrets because you didn't see a reason for it.

I may have given you a reason for saying secrets had you asked. You will never know and thus you will never know if I had a good reason or not for saying it in the first place.

[Slandaar]

I didn't even read that garbage about him pushing on me for hostile posting.

Yeah, I'm willing to lynch him.

VOTE: Slandaar

Terrible post.

I am a Motion Detector.

I suggest if anyone doubts my townness from this point we will massclaim to prove it.

VOTE: RC

[Slandaar]

No I don't.

The post was aimed at the guy who finds hostile to be scummy. If you knew I wasn't being serious for the last 2 pages you knew there.

Good Day Scumbag.

[Slandaar]

N1 target and results?

Salamence there was motion. It was amazing.

[Slandaar]

Massclaim proves I am town because it's too early for scum to out themselves Counter claiming and too much power is dead. So, I am confirmed town. Any argument against and we massclaim and I am still confirmed town.

[Slandaar]

I hate when people proclaim themselves to be confirmed town.

Hate all you like.

Show me examples of scum doing it considering you are still voting me.

Massclaim proves I am town because it's too early for scum to out themselves Counter claiming and too much power is dead. So, I am confirmed town. Any argument against and we massclaim and I am still confirmed town.

mass claim on day 2 is scummy and dumb. There is no reason to mass claim at this point nor would you be confirmed anything from it.

You are not confirmed town.

I am confirmed town when we use the following logic:
1. Everyone is going to agree I am confirmed town. This means scum will be forced to nk me making me confirmed town.
2. In the rare situation this doesn't work or idiots decide not to go with point 1 then we massclaim. Using very basic setup knowledge we can deduce town will have 1-2 PR left. Against 3 goons the current claimed looks balancedish and scum PR don't really interact well with the friendly neighbour so this confirms things nicely as the setup. If I am scum, there is still only 1-2 PR but we can again use some logic; The mod clearly wanted to use the newer normal roles as you would guess, this can be evidenced by friendly neighbour. This means my role was insane to claim as scum and it isn't even a good role - I have not been counter claimed.

In the event of massclaim:
0 PR claims - Sland is confirmed town beyond doubt.
1 PR claims - depends on claim.
2 PR claims - a PR claim is scum.

I expect 0 PR claims based on using logical deductions. Massclaim therefore only confirms me as town and does nothing else hence is Pro-town and not as you said 'scummy and dumb'

Even in the event of 1 PR claim does it really negatively effect town much to out 1 PR? nope. There isn't a cop, there isn't some big bad PR to protect he already died.

In the event of 2 PR claims - You may think well Sland is scum and he outed 2 PR! You would be an idiot for thinking that. In the hypothetical and not realistic scenario where there are 2 other town PR and I am scum they are both quite weak (I consider mine weak). Based on this then, does it really matter if 2 weak PR claim to get a scum lynch? nope.

Massclaim proves I am town because it's too early for scum to out themselves Counter claiming and too much power is dead. So, I am confirmed town. Any argument against and we massclaim and I am still confirmed town.

this is very WIFOM

No it's not. Massclaim proves my alignment maybe fits better but that isn't WIFOM.

Massclaim proves I am town because it's too early for scum to out themselves Counter claiming and too much power is dead. So, I am confirmed town. Any argument against and we massclaim and I am still confirmed town.

mass claim on day 2 is scummy and dumb. There is no reason to mass claim at this point nor would you be confirmed anything from it.

You are not confirmed town.

Agree on everything here.

Yes well I guess you can respond to the same thing FA has to.

[Slandaar]

Didn't realize the context of the statement, just saw it in isolation.

The post wasn't in isolation.

My whole recent history was posted in a very similar vain. You managed to see through that no problem but then made up some nonsense reason to vote me.

[Slandaar]

Also you are normally really obvtown by this point but you're not here so must be scum.

[Slandaar]

That is an interesting theory.

If you wish to pursue said theory please find a mini normal game where there has been such a setup.

[Slandaar]

Otherwise if you decide you don't wish to show any evidence to support your theory we will just assume I am correct and you are just talking nonsense.

[Slandaar]

There could also be a 5 man scumteam by that logic meaning it could be LYLO and so we should definitely massclaim. Do you think this is sensible?

[Slandaar]

Do you think this is sensible?

Sensible - No

Possible - Yes

If it isn't sensible then it isn't worth considering.

Why isn't it sensible?

[Slandaar]

Also you are normally really obvtown by this point but you're not here so must be scum.

That's actually really not the case and a cursory inspection of my towngames, excluding the one where we played where I just happened to be obvtowning it from the first minute because I was jumping for a BBT lynch, would show that I am not in fact commonly townread early by anyone.

I wasn't being serious about a read in one game meaning something. Unlike you.

[Slandaar]

A step by step guide on Drakced's reads by Slandaar:
Step 1. Find the most suspected players in the game by town. Call them Scum.
Step 2. Check if any previous reads are now not suspected. Call them town.
Step 3. Always call Anna null except when she gets a vote then call her townish.

If ever questioned on your reads reply that you ISOed them.

Behold!

RC: Lean Town: Did some actions that seemed like something only town would do.

FA_Q2, Slandaar, and RC I guess

So, Drakced, what changed?

Gypsy Girl: Null: Not really sure.
Annadog: Null: Not sure either.
Yuriko: Null: Maybe town, seems sorta weak.

You had Yuriko and OK you called Anna townish earlier and then you had GG who is null too but poor RC must have dropped down your reads list?!

[Slandaar]

I mean there isn't a point in asking really. You ISOed RC and changed your mind. Completely townlike. I see nothing suspicious in your play you are the towniest player other than me of course.

In fact I will refer to you as townced from now on.

[Slandaar]

Um RC... Townced is not a good vote. Townced is not scum! Definitely not!

Anyways I don't really think RC is scum. (I ISOed him)

UNVOTE: RC

Let us all be serious from now on.

[Slandaar]

I just switched my vote 5 times in 2 pages and you've decided that I'm town now?

Firstly it was 3 times not 5. This is important because as I have learnt from Fitz:

@Slandaar...nothing is ridiculous with what I point out regarding your description of [how many votes you made]. All we have to go on in this game is the words we exchange with others so if saying [how many times you voted] cannot be taken literally...then why say [ - ] it? Why not just say [it was 3 votes]?

Secondly and to address the point you are actually making; I don't care.

[Slandaar]

That is scummy as hell. No lynch is a shitty option.

Um yeah that should have been kinda obvious...? Interesting.

GG Agrees that no lynch is bad and suggesting it is scummy.

No lynch only benefits scum! Everyone should at this point just focus and move their vote on the two leading votes.

This made me think that maybe the scum team have a strategy to not vote on the most popular wagons to achieve a no lynch. Some of you may have already thought of this. All the people not on the two popular wagons could be scum...? A no lynch sounds scummy, but I not exactly sure why it is.. If someone could explain that would be great.

GG suggests that scum could be trying to no lynch.

See that's what I thought...but the explination did make sense i dont know I think we should lynch someone...

GG again says she thinks lynching someone should happen.

3 Quotes all saying that lynching someone is Pro-town in GG's mind.

Today she posted:

I also don't like his post #604 from day 1. He says: "I don't want to lynch FA or LQ so eh. I will hammer one of them if they are L-1 but I won't be around right till deadline so..."

I don't understand the reasoning behind this post

... Seems like he is just giving himself an excuse to hop on either wagon and hammer. I know he didn't end up hoping on any of the wagons, but still I don't like the thought process of that post at all.

GG does not like my post saying I will hammer someone at deadline.

She cannot fathom why I would say this (bolded) it is just unbelievable. My stance of saying I don't really want to lynch either but will she suggests is scummy.

She makes up some nonsense reason about how I am just giving myself an excuse to hammer either wagon. When the reason was obviously simply because lynching is pro-town.

This.

Is.

Scum.

The.

End.

Unfortunately BBmolla will never vote her which means we have 4 scum to compete with. Is anyone unclear how this makes GG scum?

[Slandaar]

I should also say lynching RC is terrible. It is obvious who is town because the townies all have wagons form easily, yet, when you have Townced who never gets any votes you have to wonder how he does it that paragon of town-ness he is.

Fitz wagon failing was suspicious. I would say he fits with Townced but he is town. Then there is GG and Yuri who does nothing and then Anna...

[Slandaar]

Townced and why he is so town! please note: if I say something which seems like I am implying Townced is doing something suspicious in any of the following, I am not. I was pointing out his townness. If I say scum or scummy please replace with town!

BBmolla as a rather aggressive townie and LQ as lean town.

I'm going to VOTE: BBmolla

I've been voting BBmolla because he was being ridiculously defensive and rather hostile. But now, FA_Q2 has been getting more hostile then BB was. BB has calmed down, but is still active, not like a mafia would do and just disappear for a while. I'm thinking FAQ could be Mafia. Also, I don't really feel like LQ is scum.

VOTE: FA_Q2

Why are you fine with lynching LQ

I'm thinking lean-Scum

- Drakced was 4th on Molla who he flipped his read on.
- Drakced was 5th on FAQ - Voting when FAQ wagon overtook Molla wagon.
- Flipped read on LQ when if he moves vote from FAQ to LQ it makes LQ leading wagon - no support for LQ lynch prior to this.

He is just moving to the largest wagon all the time.

I'm also not really seeing LQ as Scum. He seems like more of a newbie Town.

I'm fine with an LQ lynch, even though I'm not totally scum reading him.

I said I'm not

totally

scum reading him. I'm thinking lean-Scum, not "LQ is definitely scum and we should lynch him right now."

I hear you ask what happened in those magical 50 posts where Drakced changed his read?

Allow me to enlighten you!

VOTE: LicketyQuickety

RadiantCowbells (1) - whispersilk
YurikoJasmine (1) - RadiantCowbells
1baldeagle1 (1) - YurikoJasmine
Drakced (1) - Slandaar
BBmolla (1) - FA_Q2
whispersilk (1) - Salamence20
Salamence20 (1) - LicketyQuickety

All these people need to move their votes.

VOTE: LQ

I can go for an LQ lynch over that very bad lie and resulting piss poor excuse for it.

VOTE: LQ

A. I hadn't been paying much attention to LQ and kind of just labeled him as newb town.

So you were making up reads. I do believe that.

B. He didn't seem trustworthy, was

defending him self very little, and just seemed kind of weak overall.

Not scummy enough for me to vote for him, but enough for me to switch my opinion from newb town to lean scum.

So in effect he was an easy target.

I believe that too.

But you still think she could be scum, Persivul.

After my null read on Anna, I ISO'ed her and she doesn't seem scum, but not particularly towny either.

Persivul votes Anna.

Speak for yourself

VOTE: annadog

You're flipping more than a flap jack.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=kHYiyv68q2o

Persivul, I think Anna is townish and the pool parties are just for fun

In conclusion Anna and Drakced are weak players so they are not scum. Persivul is the scum. He only votes easy wagons Anna, Drakced, Fitz and myself after I said I was lurking.

VOTE: Persivul

A step by step guide on Drakced's reads by Slandaar:
Step 1. Find the most suspected players in the game by town. Call them Scum.
Step 2. Check if any previous reads are now not suspected. Call them town.
Step 3. Always call Anna null except when she gets a vote then call her townish.

If ever questioned on your reads reply that you ISOed them.

Behold!

RC: Lean Town: Did some actions that seemed like something only town would do.

FA_Q2, Slandaar, and RC I guess

So, Drakced, what changed?

Gypsy Girl: Null: Not really sure.
Annadog: Null: Not sure either.
Yuriko: Null: Maybe town, seems sorta weak.

You had Yuriko and OK you called Anna townish earlier and then you had GG who is null too but poor RC must have dropped down your reads list?!

[Slandaar]

Oh and Drakced said LQ wasn't defending himself much (LQ was town) then says I am not defending myself. He must have not realized his whole not defending much has a 100% sample size of town doing it but this didn't influence his read. Completely town. Townced to the rescue once again in these dire times when we cannot find scum.

[Slandaar]

So...

Are we going to lynch scum today or shall we lynch a townie? Personally I don't care as you have all been atrocious in this game. No-one can argue anything you just gut read and gut read and blah blah lets use other bad reasons to vote people then ignore the actual evidence presented to you on a silver platter.

[Slandaar]

I am glad I have amused you Townced.

What you have just said tells me one thing: you did not read and understand what I said. I am glad you assumed I want to lynch scum though

[Slandaar]

I think you know I do understand that but there is only so much I can do. I was nice on D1 and off everyone went lynching LQ and then D2 you want to lynch me. I am no longer going to be nice.

If you don't think your play is atrocious show me in your ISO why you have voted RC.

[Slandaar]

RC is scum he is trying to whiteknight me.

VOTE: RC

Anyways I don't really think RC is scum. (I ISOed him)

What in RC's ISO changed your mind about him?

Also...

Slandaar...what is a motion detector and how does it work?

I didn't ISO him this should be obvious to anyone paying any attention to anything.

Motion Detector is a pretty role but doesn't do a lot. I have no useful result so it doesn't matter. Go an read the wiki if you want to find out.

[Slandaar]

I should also say lynching RC is terrible. It is obvious who is town because the townies all have wagons form easily, yet, when you have Townced who never gets any votes you have to wonder how he does it that paragon of town-ness he is.

Fitz wagon failing was suspicious. I would say he fits with Townced but he is town. Then there is GG and Yuri who does nothing and then Anna...

Then why are you not voting for him?

Who?

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Gypsy

[Slandaar]

Coughing = Super scum?

On the previous page I made an actual argument against GG. I asked if anyone didn't understand how it made her scum. You, clearly, do not understand so please let me know why town would say (effectively) the following:
1. No lynch is bad for town.
2. I don't see why someone would say they will hammer at deadline even though they don't want to lynch either candidate. It seems like scum making up excuses to get on a wagon. (see point 1 and the actual reason for said post)

GG thinks No Lynch is bad for town but also thinks me helping to prevent a No Lynch is scummy. You can't have it both ways.

[Slandaar]

I agree. I think that drakced is just a newbe. Sure he did some suspicious things

, but there are other people who have done way scummier things. I might be willing to lynch him day 2 or 3 if he does anything else, but he is not my priority lynch at the moment.

Buddies.

Hmmm. Slandaar, on 914,

I agree that GG was sorta strange,

but not vote worthy. I don't really think I'd get on the wagon unless there was some reason for me to change my mind.

You couldn't make it up.

[Slandaar]

Says the person making billions of Townced comments but not voting him.

That would be because he is Townced and not Scumced obviously.

Do you not like the actual point of the post?

[Slandaar]

How is it obvious that you did not ISO RC? And if you didn't...what changed your mind on him?

I was referencing Townced's excuse for randomly changing reads.

I didn't change my mind; I never really thought RC was scum.

So what result did you get from the mod? And why did you select Salamance over people you appeared to suspect more on D1?

There was motion. It was amazing. I feel like I have said this before.

I chose Sala because he is a VI as such I didn't expect him to die n1 and felt he was the type of player who would fakeclaim so seemed good. He also made a horrendous final post which made him prime lynch candidate today.

[Slandaar]

I STILL do not have an answer to this.

Does it matter?

I have voted him half the game. Why does it matter that I am voting GG who I have also posted a case on?

[Slandaar]

I should say;

GG not knowing what Townced was is a huge indication of her attention to posts against Drakced.

[Slandaar]

I mean there isn't a point in asking really. You ISOed RC and changed your mind. Completely townlike. I see nothing suspicious in your play you are the towniest player other than me of course.

In fact I will refer to you as townced from now on.

It shows without doubt she didn't read the above which, lets be honest, isn't a very long post.

[Slandaar]

Let's try the Anna wagon if you clowns are seriously not going to lynch GG...

VOTE: Anna

[Slandaar]

Unless Salamance slipped some tell of being a PR I can't envision
him being scum's NK over town-Slandaar. I.e. why is town-Slandaar
still even here? Maybe town-Slandaar isn't.

Because some clowns decided to start calling me scum right at the end of D1. Which led to my wagon D2.

Not rocket science.

Get on Anna and judge me by results.

[Slandaar]

Of course not, well, apart from the fact you called her townish.

Why you are still alive I don't know.

[Slandaar]

Why we shouldn't lynch FA: because he didn't claim PR yesterday and did the refuse thing(making him VT, VT refuse to claim because they know claiming is not going to help them). Then today he claimed VT (fits the line town take). It is quite a town line to take in general because scum don't benefit as they can't claim PR and often the refuse thing = lynched.

Simple, cause I am the type of player to get lynched. I've never been Night Killed before.
Can you hold off on lynching me so I can see what it's like to be NK?

No.

Claim.

[Slandaar]

Of course not, well, apart from the fact you called her townish.

I went from null to townish back to null.

(The way I use Townish is between lean town and null.)


Atm, scum is FA_Q2, lean scum are Slandaar and Yuriko, and null are Anna and RC.

Yeah, Yeah, I have heard it before Townced. Don't believe it for a second, you have done it like ten times now it's a joke.

RC is moving up in the world again as his wagon fails too, it's just so ridiculous so ridiculous.

[Slandaar]

Why should I claim if you won't hold off on lynching me? Since according to this post, I'm lynched anyway.

Claim.

You hinted PR so you must claim PR or be scum. All PR should claim as it can prevent their lynch and means a lynch may occur on scum that day which is infinitely better than being lynched themselves.

[Slandaar]

I am a stalker I walk up to FA_Q2 and stalked his sexay sexay self. Unfortunately no one came to visit him.

Your role, My role, 2-shot Tracker. Hm. Plus the friendly neighbour; It is getting cosy in the PR camp.

Massclaim tomorrow.

VOTE: DRAKCED

[Slandaar]

I hate you all

VOTE: FA

[Slandaar]

Fitz why on earth didn't you hammer with like 15 mins till deadline?

[Slandaar]

Lynch FA and then we have facts to work with regarding his wagon.

If no lynch happens you will be the one lynched tomorrow. Guaranteed.

[Slandaar]

Tomorrows lynch will be very quick.

[Slandaar]

Exactly like I already said it.

I may have come across as "cocky" but I had the entire scumteam solved right about when I realized that BaldEagle had to be scum.

AKA, when everyone else was lynching Slandaar and Anna.

You were part of the 'lynching Slandaar'

Votecount 2.11

FA_Q2 (4) - Annadog40, YurikoJasmine, Drakced, BBmolla
Drakced (4) - Slandaar, Persivul, FA_Q2, havingfitz
Annadog40 (1) - 1baldeagle1
RadiantCowbells (1) - Gypsy Girl
1baldeagle1 (1) - RadiantCowbells

Not Voting (0) -

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-07-09 10:27:51).

No RC voting Drakced.

???

Great play RC! Figuring out everything but not voting the wagoned scum at deadline!

D3:

Votecount 3.01

YurikoJasmine (3) - Annadog40, Drakced, 1baldeagle1
BBmolla (1) - Persivul
Persivul (1) - RadiantCowbells

Not Voting (4) - YurikoJasmine, BBmolla, Gypsy Girl, havingfitz

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-07-26 01:29:41).

If you are going to lie make it believable.

[Slandaar]

Slandaar's reads on D1:

Drak, Molla/LQ, Whisper.

I had the third as you.

Your post instills confidence in me.

Whisper/Drak/GG

You good Sala

2/3 aint bad. D2 it should be apparent I knew the 2 were right and the 3rd slot was debateable.

[Slandaar]

I was expressing suspicion of you at a time when there was no pressure at all on you, and by the time I was yo uwere clearly a townread of someone.

You were the fifth vote on me.

I then claimed and you unvoted.

Your reads were not anything like what you imply.

Yes, I could definitely have done better aka lynching Drakced d2, but considering that my vote was on a different scum who would eventually endgame town, I don't think I failed too bad.

I mean that is pretty bad, couldn't be much worse. You fail to vote your scumread which you are confident in who is possibly being lynched over someone who had zero chance of being lynched. You failed badly. (you didn't read Drakced scum at that point lets be honest)

If it makes you feel better, I was reading your reads and you definitely helped clue me in that my initial townread on GG was off base.

My cases were good. The question really is how you failed to agree with and push them over gut which won't lynch anyone.

[Slandaar]

To elaborate on the point of my posts

You didn't play well, your reads were not as good as you suggest, you seem to think your reads were way better than in fact they were. Your posting shows a lack of understanding.

Anyone can say 'I thought X' but if you don't write it down then you clearly didn't think X strongly enough to put your neck on the line for that thought. Suggesting you did is actually quite ridiculous. What you should instead be doing is working out why, when you have two absolutely majestic cases on players you think are scum, you didn't help lynch said players. (The one on Drakced is the best case you will ever see - you can't have a more stonewall case bar PR shenanigans/slips etc)

[Slandaar]

Sure, I feel that learning to claim at L-1 when you have a role which is confirmable would be a very good addition to your arsenal. If you do not understand why - it's because it prevents your lynch and gives the town the opportunity to lynch scum that day instead of you.

I couldn't give you a sensible answer really without writing an essay which I don't feel like doing. If you think something is scummy make sure people don't do it in day to day life first - quite a simple thing but effective. Example: forgetting something is not scum lying or making up reasons etc.

[Slandaar]

I don't think I posted that much to be honest. Alright one more interesting thing but like I said, essays.

One way to get better (it may not apply to you) is never use the word gut. It's a terrible word, you need to figure out why you are reading things that way and actually post it. When you don't know why and just say gut without thinking you won't know post-game why you were right or wrong thus limiting your learning of the game. It also means people can't argue your point which does also limit your learning as your reasoning right or wrong cannot be debated (if wrong you can learn why etc) and is just plain anti-town when you are wrong to be stuck on 'gut' which cannot be disproven/argued against. It's something I realized a while back, I never really used gut for the aforementioned anti-townness of it, but in retrospect I think I learnt a lot more, a lot quicker, by avoiding it too.

[Slandaar]

If you are referencing the top half of that post I was saying if you have the role, claim it. Which was mostly a joke about LQ not claiming Friendly neighbour when he was a friendly neighbour. I don't endorse fakeclaiming friendly neighbour as it can definitely end badly.

[Slandaar]

Or it can let you coast for the rest of the game as scum. I would hammer a friendly neighbor claim since InuYasha.

Once upon a time I helped mislynch a townie as town. If I never vote again I will never mislynch anyone ever, problem solved!

It works but is it a good idea? The answer is no. Preventing the event so it doesn't occur again is just bad. The actual solution is to just get better at the game.

[Slandaar]

Yes, that does happen to me a lot. Sometimes I get a strong feeling that someone is town or scum but it mostly has to do with the dichotomy or style that they have typed. How do I make it a legit read when this happens?

It's not easy but you have to read their posts and figure out why. For example, posting style will be similar for players as town and scum so if it's just their style you should drop the read.

An actual example is you might not like the timing of their post, they may not take stances on big issues until others have etc. It is really hard to explain how you can do this though as each situation is obviously unique.