MINI 1688 — BEES!!! — game over

[KayP]

VOTE: Fro99er

That frog is just staring into my soul... O.O

[KayP]

5 votes? That's quite the wagon for such an early, random stage.

[KayP]

5 votes? That's quite the wagon for such an early, random stage.

Whatcha wanna do about it?

I want to comment on how odd I find it for there to be 5/7 votes on someone before the end of the first page with no information out there!

okaaaay...so, what? Does the push look scummy? Why? Is it just RVS? Give us an opinion, not a statement.

I was more fishing to see if this is standard for this website. I know everyone plays differently and has different expectations, but the 2-3 games I read didn't have this happen. and nobody else had commented on it.

I'm liking where my vote is at. Ducky is going to have to do something towny for me, other than post useless stuff.

Bella and Bob (fuck me there's two Bob's in this game ... Bicephalous Bob) have been quite towny so far. Especially Bella for the proper questioning of KayP and the recognition of Glork's naked vote.

Hmm, I'm not entirely sure that's how this should work. Should the burden of proof not be on yourself to show why duck is town, not on duck to prove she's not mafia?

[KayP]

Kitty Galore: Why did you ignore Fro99er's dislike of duck's posts, but focus on Bella?

[KayP]

This is directed at Bella, but I've made a comment about ducky too. For me, yes it's lack of engagement, combined with ducky's meta (for example: this game or this game) where they are town and have early posts that at least resemble productive content (although still fun and lighthearted). Unfortunately there are no completed scum games in their wiki, so I cannot find if this lack of productive posting is a scumpattern of theirs or not. Yes, this is an early read, without a ton to go by other than lack of content and some meta to back it up (no, meta isn't the sole reason), and is a read of mine that could possibly change based off how the game progresses. But for now, I like where my vote stands until they can start to post something useful. This is good pressure.

Hmm. So, basically, you've seen ducky play differently in the past as a townsperson, and this makes you think the different play here is somehow noteworthy or alignment-related? I still feel like there's very little to go on right now and judging someone's posts this early based on content level is a big jump to make. It's especially concerning because you yourself only made

one post

just saying hello to various people and voting randomly, and your second post was demanding better stuff from ducky. That's a bit hypocritical.

[KayP]

Oh, sure, the goal is to find mafia. I agree there, that much is obvious. But given statistics, the person you are pushing/voting/arguing with is MORE LIKELY to be town than mafia since there are way more town than mafia in games. I guess I'm having trouble understanding why you seem to be STARTING from a mindset of "this person is mafia, prove me otherwise" instead of "this person is statistically likely to be town, unless proven otherwise".

[KayP]

So if the meta is just supporting evidence, then it must be the lack of engagement as the primary thrust of your vote on them, yes?

Can you explain a bit more what about ducky's posts make you think "lack of engagement"? I think I get what you mean, but that phrase is sort of just vague.

[KayP]

your second post was demanding better stuff from ducky. That's a bit hypocritical.

My second post had content in it. It explained WHY I was voting ducky, and it explained WHY I thought Bella and BBob (especially bella) were making good points/posts.

Yes, it did... err, let me back up, I feel like maybe I'm not being totally clear with you. Here's how I see it, and why there's an issue:

- You said hello to Bella, Glork, and UT, then voted ducks randomly.
- Ducks pops back in and jokes around a bit with some weird/out there posts referencing her having five votes already.
- You come back, stating you like your vote [which you later imply is because of meta + lack of engagement].

By the time you've confirmed your vote as real and not joking, you have meta reasons to dislike ducky's posts (three page one posts really early in the game) and cite her "lack of engagement". If someone had made the same accusations about you at the time you posted, it could've held true too -- you only had one non-serious post that people could claim was devoid of content, and with only one post that early (joking post) you also could be said to have a "lack of engagement".

My point in this is that your reasoning behind considering the vote "serious" seems flimsy when it could be applied to you, me, and probably the vast majority of the playerlist.

[KayP]

Regarding your breakdown of duck's posts:

The first one was a jokey/random vote with a jokey/random post. Similar to exactly your first post.

The second one, where duck comments on having 5 votes... what exactly would you expect someone to say here this early in the game about them having five votes? How should a townsperson react in this situation? How should a mafioso react?

I don't mind the video post, it just seemed kind of fun/random. The "false as hell" post was specifically directed towards TellTaleHeart asking for a triple vote from the moderator, and I thought that was fairly obvious?

I see ducky as at least wading in and getting her hands dirty and staying cool under having five votes. I see that ducky had at least made some attempt at saying things on the first page, whereas I could probably pick out five people who did nothing even remotely similar. I think "lack of engagement" could much more aptly describe plenty of players in the game over ducky, at least at the point where you made your second post.

[KayP]

I was more fishing to see if this is standard for this website. I know everyone plays differently and has different expectations, but the 2-3 games I read didn't have this happen. and nobody else had commented on it.

It's not normal, but this isn't a normal game.

IT'S A LIGHTNING ROUND GAME.

Okay, but... well first off, I don't know why you're yelling at me. And second off, it's "lightning round", but we still have a week, right? I don't think "one week to get day over with" justifies "someone being at five votes a few hours after the game begins".

[KayP]

VOTE: Fro99er

I think we're just talking past each other at this point, but my earlier issues with the hollowness of the push on ducks still stands.

[KayP]

Can you explain

why

you thought my post #41 was bad, or why you think I'm reaching?

[KayP]

@Kay, it was really vague. You seemed to saying you were commenting on the l-2 just to comment, which isn't really moving anything forward. Also, the burden of proof thing seemed backwards, so there wasn't a lot of drive behind your post.

Err... I wasn't commenting just to comment. That's not what I said at all. I said that, as a newbie, it struck me as odd that the wagon was so fast when other games I read didn't have such a fast wagon.

[KayP]

it's because I think he's scum

sorry if that was unclear

Why do you think he is scum?

[KayP]

Thanks! I agree with most of what you said, though I don't recall him calling TTH's vote suspicious? Or am I misunderstanding what you're saying?

[KayP]

You said you saw something you haven't explained (it might be his meta push?) then mentioned re-voting, and Kay immediately follows you on to Frog. I didn't like her vote jump in response to your prod. What did you think about it?

The thrust that caused me to vote Fro99er was his Post #59, where he mentioned that we were devolving into stupid bickering. I thought about it, and that's probably true, and at the end of this series of arguments, his answers hadn't assuaged my concerns and had only made my concerns more valid, so I voted him.

[KayP]

@kay, thanks. Sorry for the incorrect pronouns

No worries.

[KayP]

I like how everyone wants to impose their opinion of RVS/game philosophy on everyone else.


I haven't read any of frogger's forum games but from what I've played with him in f2f, using meta to sort out his early D1 thoughts is pretty standard fare for him.

What's atrocious is KayP's explanation of her vote (hypocrisy on Page 3 of a game? Please, it'd be scummier if he actually tried to call out three or for people at once for lack of content that early), followed by asking BobLob to justify his vote, followed by the subsequent "I agree with most of that" to reinforce the bullshit that is this wagon.

I think KayP smells a weak link and is seeking to exploit it.

Well, you can say "really? Hypocrisy on page three?" if you want, but the truth is that he DID accuse ducks of something he himself was guilty of as well. That is hypocrisy.

Bob's vote made me uncomfortable and his explanation of just saying "I think he's scummy" was bad as well.

I don't know how to smell out a weak link in this scenario. Frog is basically the only person who has been around to chat, so I'm engaging him.

[KayP]

Glork: You chastise me for going after frog, here. What about Bob & GC? You said me stating I agree w/ most of his post is bullshit, but what about

the person who made the post

? And what of GC, who also voted Frogger for similar reasons to mine?

[KayP]

Hmm. If you say so. I'd still argue that me voting Frog for hypocrisy is a lot stronger than Frog voting ducks for "lack of engagement" and meta reasons after one page of the game.

[KayP]

How did GC show real conviction?

My argument against Frog amounted to the same thing that GC's vote amounted to... that is, we both thought his insistence on ducks being scum for lack of engagement/meta on page two was overblown and contrived. We both had the

same

reasoning -- how are you discerning that GC is convicted, whereas I am not? Why are GC's reasons so much better than mine?

It should also be noted I didn't fully agree with

all

of Bob's points, but agreed with enough of them that I didn't want to argue against someone who was supporting my wagon of choice right now.

[KayP]

Pretend I'm stupid and elaborate for me, please.

[KayP]

I think that Ducky just has a playstyle like this on his/her's first day. Alot of players in games I've been in are like this (For example, goodmorning). Then again, she was scum in her game soooo...

What is this?

VOTE: Shadoxx8

Frog's frustration feels mostly real, and Shadoxx's post here seems to be a light defense of ducky... only to turn around and leave a loophole where Shadoxx could go back on the defense and join the wagon if needed. It feels noncommittal.

[KayP]

The deflection onto GC/Bob is the biggest thing.

Her position on Bob in Post 97 doesn't appear to naturally arise from her prior interaction with Bob, and thus looks like an attempt to untruthfully undermine Glork's criticism on that point.

Well, to be fair, it

was

an attempt to undermine Glork's criticism on that point, because I think the criticism is flawed.

I don't particularly think the points that Bob & I (and even you, GC) brought against Frog are as weak as Glork said they were, and I find it hard to swallow his targeting of me over anyone else. It looked a bit suspicious to me that someone would come in and target me, specifically. The only difference I could find between myself and you/Bob is that I was more vocal and more aggressive, which makes Glork's singling out of me even MORE suspicious! I

am

flattered, though.

In any case, I do believe Shaddox is a much bigger problem at this juncture. Take a look at his two posts so far:

VOTE: LaLaLaDucks

Because when anything is that cute, it's bound to be evil.

I think that Ducky just has a playstyle like this on his/her's first day. Alot of players in games I've been in are like this (For example, goodmorning). Then again, she was scum in her game soooo...

He votes ducks "randomly" and jokingly (when there were already three votes on that wagon), and after several pages of the game happening, pops back in to defend ducks... but just a little bit. He defends ducks just enough to be able to look good if ducks gets lynched and flips town, but also leaves himself a loophole to get out of it ("she was scum her game soooo..."). He also does not change his vote.

[KayP]

Work sucks, but 'dont worry, bee happy!'

*slams head on table repeatedly*

[KayP]

What is wrong with people on this site and making reasonless votes?

[KayP]

VOTE: Bellaphant

Ooooooh. Please elaborate.

[KayP]

Because I had a gut ping/twinge re: Bella earlier.

[KayP]

I am heading to bed, but I'm really happy with the two wagons going right now.

[KayP]

You know, the more wine I drink, the more I really want to take a defibrillator to the ducks wagon.

You are being so awkward.

It's little, throwaway things like Post 117 that bug me. I make a raspberry after reading those kinds of posts. The Bella town read was really half-assed and you just kind of piggy-backed on KayP's Shadox case.
I haven't seen anything that looks legit from you and I was kind of expecting to see it by now.

As a note, I'm not sure what else people could say about the Shadoxx thing at this point. I made as many comments as one can make about Shadoxx's two posts so far, so I feel like "piggy-backing" on what I've said is about all anyone can do right now.

VOTE: lalaladucks

I see your vote, and I'm assuming it's due to the most recent ducks post before this one, but can you point out what about that post you found vote-worthy?

[KayP]

My point was, if people don't push on Shadoxx (or Kitty), we're just going to let them sit there and do fuck all in a quick game. It's one thing to go V/LA or just completely flake. It's another thing to be active elsewhere yet not post in this thread.

Oh, we are allowed to mention this? I thought we couldn't mention this because of ongoing games rules... if that's the case, then I noticed ducks avoiding this thread specifically while posting heavily in other games. It was specifically around the 4-5 page mark of this thread, while ducks was a very heavy center of discussion between myself, Frogger, and Glork. In fact, she was posting elsewhere, and didn't come back until after Fro99er backed down and then Glork attacked me. It looks very suspicious that ducks was observably active on the forum but avoided this thread until the heat on her had died down.

[KayP]

Yeah, that's fine then. I hadn't read that thread closely, so I guess what I said above is fine as well.

[KayP]

Apologies for my absence. I’ve been in a pretty big deadline push for this project at work and I’ve been staring at a laptop screen, eating, or sleeping for the past couple days. I finally sat down for my lunch break and scarfed down a salad, so I can get to this game a bit now.

@KayP

Oh, sure, the goal is to find mafia. I agree there, that much is obvious. But given statistics, the person you are pushing/voting/arguing with is MORE LIKELY to be town than mafia since there are way more town than mafia in games. I guess I'm having trouble understanding why you seem to be STARTING from a mindset of "this person is mafia, prove me otherwise" instead of "this person is statistically likely to be town, unless proven otherwise".

Your point here is what? Maybe I’m missing the context of this post (viewing these in ISO BTW) but what you are essentially saying is that we shouldn’t vote for people because they are likely to be town? The point of the game is to vote and find the Mafia, before they lynch all town members. This statement directly contradicts the purpose of Mafia! You are pushing for us to vote random people, which is directly in the Mafia’s favour!

Why yes, you are missing the context of this post, and the fact that you don’t even care enough to attempt to view it in context and instead want to ramble just to paint me scummy is pretty damning. Nothing you said about this post is true, relevant, or meaningful, so you’ve essentially wasted time for the hell of it rather than taking two seconds to understand what you’re saying. This post was made in response to Frog asking someone to prove their innocence, rather than proving their guilt. This post was all about how people are more likely to be town than mafia, and therefore the onus is on the accuser to show why someone is guilty, not on the accused to show why they’re not. You’d know this, if you put some thought into it and weren’t making this case against me for show.

What is wrong with people on this site and making reasonless votes?

There is something called RVS.

Again, if you gave this half a thought, you’d know I was not TALKING about RVS. You’re not even paying attention to how late in the game I posted things. I was referencing Bellaphant voting me for no stated reasons on page six of a game when we were seemingly well past the RVS phase, and you’d know this if you actually were trying to read me instead of just drudging shit up to fit into your case against me.

I think that KayP is currently the most scummy player. However, I do not think he is Mafia. He’s the best vote for us IMO, but with Ducks at L-1. I’m unsure whether I’ll swap over on D1.

What? So you think my actions are scummy, but I am not mafia? Why do you not think I am mafia? If all the actions are leading towards me being mafia, what is making you say I am not?

To me, this reads like Shaddoxx having inside information on my role and alignment, and therefore points out some “scummy” things about me while leaving the door open to absolve himself when I get mislynched and turn out to be town! I have no clue how else someone reaches this conclusion. If Shaddox truly believed his own points against me, there’s no way he’d be saying “KayP is scummy, but not mafia, but I’m going to vote for someone I think is not mafia anyway”.

No, this is not good. This is a strained angle. The case on Shadoxx is fundamentally weak by itself ("Give me until Day 2 to get reads" is not bad at all, not from a newbie), but then peddling this Bella-Shadoxx theory is just an extra layer of BLECH.

Hmm… if you think Glork is trying to sell us on a Bella-Shadoxx scumteam, do you think he’s putting one of his teammates in the pairing? I think that’s what I would do as mafia… I’d put a townie with my mafia buddy so that if my mafia buddy went down, I’d look good for pushing on them, and then I’d have a free setup to push a townie afterwards. I don’t know if this is a common tactic, as I couldn’t find much on the wiki regarding typical scum play.

UNVOTE:

like most of shadox post and the part I dont like is nitpicky

will write more tomorrow evening when done w workstuff phone posting

What, exactly, did you like about Shaddox’s post? To me it all looked empty, vapid, and meant to *look* town but not actually be town.

I’m not going to quote the whole thing here, but I sincerely liked Glork’s post #334. It felt genuine to me. I read through his points about Bob, and it definitely seems like Bob is making assumptions/putting words in Glork’s mouth, and that his read on Glork is fabricated and not really based in reality.

I have no idea what to make of Untrod Tripod. Half of his posts are jokes or images, and the other half of his posts are one-liners with very little in the way of content or meaningful analysis, yet everyone seems content to have him just floating around… Mr. Tripod, what, pray tell, did you agree with about Glork’s post that made you vote Bob? Do you no longer think that ducks is mafia?

This is about all I have time for right now, but I definitely still want Shaddox dead. Glork’s case on BiBob is fine and I wouldn’t mind BiBob dying, but my primary concern right now lies with Shaddox’s terrible performance and awful content so far, and I’m quite interested to see Shaddox explain away the questions and points I have outlined above.

[KayP]

I don't think I'm relying on associations before the flip? Why do you think I am?

[KayP]

@KayP, because Glork's main push on me seems to be 'undefined scummy thing' and then 'associatives'. Good to know, though.

I don't recall ever agreeing with Glork's case on you, unless I'm misinterpreting something?

I find you slightly scummy for my own personal reasons, but the only time I mentioned you in relation to Glork was in questioning TTH on whether she thought Glork, as scum, would put a scumbuddy on the table in the Shaddox/Bella pairing.

Kitty Galore: Why did you ignore Fro99er's dislike of duck's posts, but focus on Bella?

This never got answered.

[KayP]

I have no idea what to make of Untrod Tripod. Half of his posts are jokes or images, and the other half of his posts are one-liners with very little in the way of content or meaningful analysis, yet everyone seems content to have him just floating around… Mr. Tripod, what, pray tell, did you agree with about Glork’s post that made you vote Bob? Do you no longer think that ducks is mafia?

Sorry, I realized I buried this fairly deep in my wallpost, but I'd appreciate it if

Untrod Tripod would respond to this

.

It's disheartening that he obviously skipped my post entirely.

[KayP]

Hey,

Glork

, what do you make of Shaddox's case against me?

[KayP]

I rather dislike how the Shaddox wagon dissolved.

[KayP]

Note that I would also be okay with a lynch on Kitty Galore. While I still dislike Shaddox's post history so far, Kitty's is almost just as terrible and I don't like how inactive she has been... it's very easy to hide behind inactivity in this game.

[KayP]

Anyway, I don't know where I stand on KayP. She questioned me well on my Ducky vote, even up to the point of disproving my assumption of Ducky's lack of content. That felt towny KayP. But I can't help but agree with Shadoxx that the mindset of "assume everyone is town" instead of "try to find scum" is weird and backward. That's a mafia mindset, IMO. I still need to sort KayP.

Ugh. Wtf is this. Perhaps you should stick to statistics and leave logic to the rest of us?

In no way, shape, or form is "assume everyone is town" mutually exclusive to "try to find scum". Both of those can coexist together! You see, that's not why I said you should assume everyone is town.

I was saying that asking someone to prove their innocence is placing the burden of proof on the incorrect party. It's more likely the person you're attacking is town than scum... and therefore, you should have reasons why they are scum. You, Froggy, were saying that ducks should have to have her innocence proven, rather than you proving why she is mafia. THAT is why I brought up the "everyone is more likely to be town" bit, and in no way, shape, or form did I imply that you should not attempt to find scum.

This is totally disingenuous.

[KayP]

in answer to your question, I didn't comment on Fro99er's dislike of ducks posts because I read the last page or so and wanted to ask questions and contribute while on a short break at work phone posting.

But Frog's dislike of ducks posts were on the page before you posted? What?

[KayP]

Urgh. I still don't like how quickly the ducks wagon dissipated. Nobody is even claiming a townread on her for anything, it just sort of... stopped. What in the world?

[KayP]

Urgh. I still don't like how quickly the ducks wagon dissipated. Nobody is even claiming a townread on her for anything, it just sort of... stopped. What in the world?

Although, I don't really know either how I didn't get lynched. I think you're a green bean town Pusheen and liked your 339(I think?) so do you have anything you want me to explain or clear up in particular?

Spoiler: in case anyone doesn't know Pusheen

|
v
is Pusheen!
^
|

*shrug* I dunno. You're in a really murky grey area for me right now. I started the day thinking you were town and arguing against Frogger for that very reason. I still think Shaddox defending you is probably a mafia move to look good for later when you flipped town. I do think your specific avoidance of the thread as I noted in 233 loses you a lot of the town read I had built up. Frogger/Shaddox's bad pushes on you were the main reason I thought you were a townie scapegoat earlier... but the only thing

you

have done that gave me a reason to read you based on

your

actions is that you avoided the thread when the heat was on.

[KayP]

Errr. I'm here, I guess I can cast the final vote, but I'd love for Bicephalous Bob to claim before I do...

[KayP]

I don't think we're going to get another option before deadline :\

[KayP]

I'll give him until deadline.

[KayP]

Fine. I have to leave early anyways so I won't be around for deadline.

VOTE: Bicephalous Bob

[KayP]

Also, sorry, I did not realize he was VLA.

[KayP]

Yes!! Of course I did!! Because you were freaking out about it!

[KayP]

VOTE: Shaddox

[KayP]

Hey Kay: tell me why you've voted Shaddox, and I'll see if it matches up with the reason I wanna vote there?

I did it because nothing I said from yesterday has changed.

Yeah, no. You keep trying to follow the crowd

VOTE: Bella

When else did Bella try to follow the crowd?

VOTE: ShaddoxFine, then. I hate the way the wagon dissipated, obvscum counter wagon is obvious.

Hmm. I didn't even notice the wagon falling apart, but that's another point in favor of this lynch that I personally feel should have happened yesterday.

Bella, this is the second time you have immediately responded to a vote/criticism of your play by placing your vote to alleviate pressure on you. And both times you piled onto a player with existing suspicion. The last was when I voted you for your useless one-liner post and you responded by voting KayP.

Do you have any conviction in your votes/gameplay, or is your main priority trying to get people to not-suspect-you? Because I'm getting a huge chunk of the latter, and very little indication that you actually care about finding scum.

I'll echo the above: when was the other time?

[KayP]

The argument that asking for a claim in that situation was helping direct the scum NK is also a little warped, because, like... BiBob was going to be lynched anyways? So asking for a claim was, in a sense, actually (potentially) tying the scum's NK hands because they wouldn't have gotten the BiBob mislynch, and so scum was going to have to NK BiBob if they actually wanted to get rid of him.

This was sort of my thought process at the end of the day.

I know I was cutting it close by waiting for a claim, but I figured there were three options:

1) BiBob shows up and claims VT or some similarly lynchable role, and I hammer.
2) BiBob doesn't show up at all, and I hammer.
3) BiBob shows up and claims a really important power role, I don't hammer, and then mafia have to waste their kill on BiBob to get rid of the power role.

I didn't see the harm in waiting for a claim and I certainly don't see how it's scummy... I think the only way this would've been scummy is if I hadn't hammered and had instead disappeared, asking for a missed lynch.

[KayP]

Yeah, have fun if D4 is you, Bulge, Shadoxx, Kitty, and Laladucks. I sincerely hope I get shot before then.

Also, what do you expect me to do about my proposed scums? I'm already waiting two answers from Shadoxx, who hasn't posted in over three days. I just addressed Bella within the last 24 hours. I legitimately don't understand where your "OMG DISTRACTIONS" is coming from unless you want me to keep vomiting the same questions to Shadoxx over and over again until he finally posts.

What makes you think I won't make it to Day 4?

[KayP]

Huh. That was underwhelming. I figured with me being gone for almost a full day, there'd be more to come back to. :\

[KayP]

Hello, newcomer!

[KayP]

UT we're lynching Bella or Shadoxx today

What are you even doing man

What do you feel about Kay?

What do

you

feel about Kay?

[KayP]

*covers mouth and throws voice to sound like it's coming from somewhere else*

"That KayP is the best darn newbie to sign up for the site in years! Give her all the awards!"

[KayP]

Another newcomer! Welcome!!

[KayP]

KayP's angle on frogger sucked and the continued questioning of it sucked.

This explanation of why you disliked it sucks and still sucks!

(In case you can't tell: it's super sucky of you to say that my "angle sucked" without giving any context. Try sucking less and giving me some reasoning!)

I didn't think Glork was ever super committed to his scumread of me so I didn't think much of it when he backed off... plus, he's backing my read on Shaddox, which I still feel totally righteous about! You mentioned I wasn't pushing elsewhere, that's probably because I

tried

engaging Shaddox and explaining my read and reasoning further, and virtually every person in the game ignored it.

I'm not going to sit here and beg for attention from anyone, though it's odd how you can brush aside all of my work this game so far with two strokes of the brush: "KayP's angle & questioning sucked" and "KayP hasn't prodded anywhere else". One of those is a highly subjective statement which you backed with zero facts or reasoning, and the other is pretty objectively false.

[KayP]

Tammy posted a lot of words! And some of them were words that made sense and felt okay, and then some of them were words that felt purely driven by her desire to get Glork lynched... and that desire feels motivated for purely defensive reasons. I'm reading through it now, and basically everything Tammy said seemed to come from a place of "Glork attacked me and therefore he is scum".

I'm trying to put my finger on the specifics of what feels 'off' about it but I'm finding it difficult. Just sort of writing all stream-of-consciousness style here then I'll clean it up into something more structured later... Glork's push on me never felt really serious, as I mentioned above. His suspicion of me was also pretty early in the game, like page 5? It's weird that Tammy seemingly doesn't like early game serious reads (as evidenced by Tammy's point about my early questioning of Frogger) but is willing to jump all over Glork having a fluid read that early. I just went back and looked and remembered that Glork voted for me early because he felt like I was jumping on a weak link (Frogger)... we had some dialogue about it in which we both explained ourselves... then he hopped on to other things. That felt pretty natural to me. In general, Glork's play feels like a movie reel where we're only getting the core/juicy parts of the scene and not the boring lead-in/exposition. It's like snapshots of a full read, which is weird. He doesn't explain every detail but I feel like I can usually deduce why he arrived where he did even if it requires some sleuthing? It's annoying, maybe, but it hasn't stood out as disingenuous to me. My early argument with him rubbed me the wrong way but not in a particularly mafia-like way.

I don't think voting for Bella after 130 is bad. I got frustrated with that post too, and while I didn't vote Bella for it, I'm also way more curmudgeon-y with my votes than the rest of the people here. I generally only vote when I'm sure enough that I'd be okay with a lynch. I've noticed several people in this game flinging votes around at people as sort of "warning shots" or something. Tammy is really trying to paint a picture here where Glork is voting for Bella because of a "joke post" (don't worry, bee happy) but that isn't the case at all. Just like Tammy wants us to see that there's some clear subtext to Bella's projected path towards laying down a vote on me, there's

actual

clearly defined evidence for why people were frustrated with Bella at that point, and if you're viewing the votes this game as firestarters rather than proclamations of sure lynches, anyone with half a brain can see why Glork decided to vote Bella at this point! Bella had been useless, useless, useless, useless... then popped in to be even MORE useless than normal, and with the heat between myself and Glork dying down, he decided to put his vote elsewhere to appear more useful. At least, that's what I saw in this whole exchange, and Glork can speak for himself, but there's just something still nibbling away at me about Tammy's post that rubs me the wrong way.

Tammy also seemed to address her whole post towards the rest of the game and not towards Glork. It didn't seem like she wanted Glork to actually respond so she could suss out his alignment... again, this comes back to the whole "motivated purely by defensiveness" thing I mentioned earlier. Her post specifically asks the rest of the game to engage her on these points. "Does this make sense to anyone?" in relation to Glork's attack on Bella for the "joke post". "If he was still scum reading KayP..." is referencing Glork in the third person, instead addressing the rest of the game. I also find it weird that Tammy is busting Glork's chops over the "attacking the joke post!" episode, but when Glork is jokey by saying he'll come back to "bust some scums", Tammy drives that home as "bullshit" "bravado" and claims that as yet another reason Glork is mafia.

To be honest, I have no idea what to think about Glork, and he had been mostly under the radar for me because I liked that he was mostly agreeing with my reads. But I see NO WAY that Tammy's overly defensive, self-contradicting reasons on Glork are coming from town... and the style in which she went about it makes no sense if Glork is her mafia partner (he had no momentum on him at all).

VOTE: Tammy

And now that I've overshot my lunch break by 15 minutes... Gotta run!

[KayP]

Your push on why frogger was pushing and questioning lala was overblown because what he was doing was extremely standard for the early game. You were essentially getting after him for playing mafia and in the process didn't let him get a read on lala organically from that. Most people don't think they've caught scum for sure in the first few posts of the game and are trying to get a read. And because it's the nature of the game that early posting isn't going to be strong, hypocrisy is going to be actually a common thing. As the game progresses hypocrisy still isn't a scum tell.

By needling him the way that you did, you gave lala no reason to actually start producing content because the person who was pushing her to try to get a read on her was being attacked and questioned by you for playing the game. You didn't let it play out.

I didn't say that you hadn't prodded anywhere else. I said a whole lot of it, and it is objectively true that you have not prodded everyone else in the game in the same manner you prodded frogger in the first few pages of the game, which makes my early observation of what type of player you are not as strong.

Now I'm going swimming!

My pushing/questioning was overblown? No, my pushing/questioning was proportional to Frogger's stated conviction and reasons for voting lalaladucks after a page and a half of gameplay! If you want to talk about overblown, perhaps it should be in Frogger's direction. I don't know what's standard and what's not for early game, but me picking apart his terribly concocted and empty reasons for SERIOUS voting someone (note: not a joke vote or random vote) is not the problem, here. Read our exchange. Hypocrisy was part of it, maybe. But I don't mean hypocrisy in the sense of contradicting yourself... I understand as the game goes on, you may wind up contradicting yourself as reads change and evolve. But on PAGE TWO of a game, to be cherry picking reasons to get all righteous and serious when you yourself are guilty of those reasons? How is THAT less egregious than me needling every detail?

[KayP]

That's fine.

I'm a vanilla townie by the way.

Just make sure to actually read what I said about Glork tomorrow.

Why are you claiming?

[KayP]

Oh! My vote put you at L-1.

UNVOTE: Tammy

I didn't realize it was that close to a lynch this early, I apologize. I still think you're scum but on the off-chance you're not, I think letting you state your full thoughts would be useful information to have.

[KayP]

Frogger's quetsions and stances were fine. He didn't seem self-righteous or cherry picking to me. He looked like he was playing mafia. Everyone is going to be weak early game, and frogger was doing standard stuff. Someone has to be the person to push the game forward, you pick up on something that you know is weak, and you go from there.

Oh -- why does Frogger get a pass for pushing early weak reads/reasons because he's "pushing the game forward"... yet you attack me for pushing early weak reads/reasons because I was "needling and nitpicking"? Why does he get the "early game, it's okay!" pass but I don't?

You needled every detail for things that were pretty standard stuff, but you're new and you might just be the type. However, you didn't do the same type of needling for everyone throughout the game which threw off what type of player I was expecting you to be.

What were you expecting, exactly? Were you expecting that every post made by every player in the game would result in a follow up post with me breaking down every last detail? What would've met your expectations? If I had done it to one other player? Or maybe everyone? Somewhere in the middle? 5? 7? Where's the line for you? And what did me "throwing off" your expectations do for you in relation to the game? Stating that you expected me to be one way and I ended up the other has no actual application to the game itself, so please elaborate.

Like for instance, you haven't needled me for my thoughts and just posted a big ol case for why I'm the scum I'm not. And, bonus, in it you added some hypocrisy. You didn't post that case in way that was addressed to me but to everyone else. I want everyone else to read my Glork case; I'm trying to convince the town that he's scum not him.

If you cared to read at all, I pointed out that I was going through and posting stuff in a stream-of-conscious style and would go back and edit for structure/readability later. I wrote that out as if I was talking to myself, because I was. I find it comical that you are trying to throw hypocrisy back in my face right now after just getting done saying how hypocrisy isn't scummy and everyone will be hypocritical at some point... you're just choosing to go with the flow whenever it is convenient for you. Either you don't believe what you said about hypocrisy (and therefore lied), or you do believe what you said and are just chiming in with the hypocrisy comment now to throw poo at me and discredit me (and are therefore continuing to operate from a purely defensive stance).

[KayP]

God...this whole Bella (now Tammy)/KayP thing now is seriously setting off alarm bells.

Elaborate.

[KayP]

I'm just going to respond to Tammy in one post rather than quoting everything because that seems unreasonable.

Glork never attacked you, Tammy, but he attacked your predecessor. The idea of a replacement is weird to me because in my regular games that I play with my group, if someone just doesn't show up or AFKs, we just modkill them. I think it was pretty clear I was referencing Glork attacking you as in your predecessor, and if that wasn't clear, then I apologized, but I thought that was pretty obvious.

I'm saying his early attack on me felt as "serious" as my early attack on Frogger which felt as "serious" as Frogger's early attack on ducks. I sincerely don't understand how you're drawing an arbitrary line between what Frogger did to ducks versus the rest of it. It's VERY suspicious to me that you're so willing to give Frogger a pass for his stuff, but want to chastize me for my attack on Frogger and hold Glork's feet to the fire for his attacks on me, when all of it happened at about the same time. Pray tell, what exactly is so different about the timing? And don't give me this b/s about how my attack on Frogger was somehow inhibiting his attempt to read ducks... are you saying Frogger was only voting ducks to get a reaction/read? Because at NO POINT did Frog say that... in fact, he maintained the seriousness of his attack on ducks and has yet to say anything of the sort! Why is Frogger allowed to operate in a vacuum, free from persecution for his attacks? Why is his play just "attempting to get a read" and my play is "interrupting what Frogger's doing"? You still don't answer this. You don't answer what the difference is between the two methods or what makes my play different from Frogger's. What happens, exactly, when this happens? I notice something I thing is funky about Frogger's attacks on ducks... and you're saying I have to shut up because it interferes with Frogger's ability to read lalaladucks? What on Earth? How do you even know he's being sincere that early?

Bella had been incredibly useless and unhelpful basically the entire game. She gave some vague opinions, sure... but GC had to ask for more specific reasons, and after some weak attacks against me she basically just backed down and sat there while I fought against Frogger and Glork. Bella had also just unvoted GC and not put the vote anywhere else or suggested anything else. You stating that Bella's buildup to vote me was legit is just plain wrong. I prodded Bella for more reasoning, she gave it, I responded, then Bella just ignored it and said "thanks" and didn't comment on it at all. With no more pressuring, that would seem to indicate being done with that line of questioning, so the vote on me after being prompted by Glork DID look panicky. I got frustrated when I saw the bee pun, because Bella had been saying I was scum, and I thought it was resolved, and other than pushing on someone I know to be town (spoiler alert: it's me!) I had nothing else for Bella, other than vague shit, and it made me frustrated when she could show up to make a dumb bee joke but not respond to me in any meaningful way.

I did not read GLork's 431 and thus didn't see his claim that he voted Bella for the one-liner. I can't speak for Glork's true reasons... I

can

speak that, at least for me, I saw both me v Glork and me v Bella dying down a bit, where both had seemingly backed off a bit on their attacks on me, and then Bella had done nothing else except backed down off another read on GC and unvoted. It felt really fake, and I thought maybe Glork was as frustrated as I and had picked up on some of the same vibes that I did.

And, sorry, I don't really care about your posts showing other people doing something you're accusing Glork of doing. Each person is different and I don't think there's some big secret universal way to play the game and catch people. The evidence doesn't convince me, and I have a very hard time understanding why a jokey post about catching scum is different from any other jokey post in the game. I'm just not buying it. I haven't dug deeper into Glork

because he's been seemingly on board with my reads

and thus nothing has caught my eye about him. I explained this, please learn to read my posts! Sorry if that seems bitchy, but explaining myself again is really annoying.

Why do you think I'm hurt? Are you serious? I'm not "hurt" over you criticizing me -- I know I'm smart, and I know I'm decent at this game. I'm calling you out for having a double standard. It's not perfectly clear at all why you're singling me out over everyone else when I can point to specific comparisons, and you've yet to do anything to assuage those concerns. You're now resorting to some weird tactic of harping on me being "butt hurt". Please, lady -- get over yourself. Stop dodging and explain yourself without the sarcastic, degrading, bitchy comments, please! This is a game about arguing, and your tactic of softly calling me names or making me seem pedantic isn't doing you any favors. And your overwrought dramatic moments are ridiculous as well -- stop lamenting your death before it even happens, that's such a basic manipulation tactic.

You just can't be made happy. If I'm not needling every person, you're saying I'm inconsistent and not playing to your expectations... when I catch a scent I want to follow and go in depth with your posts, you say I'm needling for the sake of needling. You can certainly just write a narrative for whatever you want, can't you? I've "needled" and gone in depth against the players that have caught my eye the most: Frogger early on, Shaddox, and you. That's the long and short of it.

[KayP]

Kayp - You said that Glork was flying under the radar for you in part because he agreed with you on his reads. He's had you as scum since day one and these are his day two posts that mention you, so what reads are you exactly agreeing with?

He expressed interest in wanting Shaddox dead when nobody else did.

[KayP]

1) I didn't mind Glork's early push on you. I thought he was town at that point. His push on you early made sense.

I did not like your early attack on Frogger because Frogger was trying to figure out lala, and your attack on him looked like trying to distract from your partner lala.

Like I've explained this already.

Look at you finally explaining why you thought my thing was different than the others! It was specifically because you were making associative links between me and lala... well, that's not exactly a good answer, but at least it's AN answer.

2) Glork never stopped scum reading you. He still has you in his scum pool. How the heck are you not seeing that and what would make you think his push wasn't serious, when it objective was and he *still* is scum reading you???

You do realize, when I flip town, he's lynching you? Wake the fuck up!

I haven't seen Glork say anything about me today... did I just miss the post?

Also, I'm good and awake, thanks

3) Is this really the sum total of before Glork voted for Bella that everyone had problems with her/she was being useless?

Am I being paranoid, or is frog/kayP/GC interaction pinging for anyone else?

Be more specific.

Seriously???

I never said "everyone" had problems with Bella's posts, but THANK YOU for putting words in my mouth! I specifically said "people" had problems -- as in, me, Glork, and GC had problems and that sentiment stuck with me. Nice misrepresentation of my point, though, to try and discredit it!

5) I don't know what to tell you if you don't care about getting proper reads in the game which is how I read it when you say that you don't care about my posts trying to show the game what Glork is doing. I'm fucking town here, you're wrong about my slot and you are refusing to listen to me because lalalalala who fucking knows.

You're pulling out, "oh hey, this is what people did in other games!" Like who cares? Maybe if Glork had done it before I could see some validity in it, but that's like me punishing one of my subordinates because someone at a store in another state did something wrong.

7) You're all being lazy and yes your reaction to me is you being butthurt because if you weren't you'd probably understand what I am saying instead of whatever the fuck you are thinking I'm saying. I'M NOT SINGLING YOU OUT OVER EVERYONE ELSE IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T NOTICED MY VOTE IS ON GLORK, MY ATTENTION IS ON GLORK, MY CASE IS ON GLORK. I've pretty much called you dead fucking null. If you feel singled out, it's because you jumped my shit and I'm responding and you're acting like I sought you out to criticize you when you've been criticizing me as much as anything.

Okay, let's try this again: you are/were singling me out for things/reasons that could easily be applied to other players. It wasn't until

THIS POST

that you clarified that your early game stuff on me was due to a dumb associative tell between me and ducks... so basically, you had to read both me and ducks as scum together to dislike my earlier stuff? But now... you don't think ducks is scum, but you still don't like my early game stuff on Frogger. How does that hold up? You can't claim your stance on my early game was negative due to ducks associative tells and then say you don't think ducks is scum anymore... like, you claimed you disliked my posts after it was all said and done! You were catching up, now you're caught up, and yet you still disliked my earlier posts because !?!?!?!?!?

[KayP]

Kayp - If you are town though, step back because you are absolutely arguing with town and it does nothing for the game. There's enough here for anyone to be able to interact with us off of, and considering that you keep divining stuff about what I'm saying or doing, it's not going to do anything but get me more irritated with you and that does nothing again to help town.

Yeah, of course you're town! Why didn't you say so? I'll just ignore you from now on because you said you were town, man, this game is much easier than I thought!!!

Kayp - you say you've just been poking at people who caught your eye. Do you still suspect frogger? Do you think that Bella has been bussing Shadox? There are three scum so if you think Shadox/my slot/???

Who's your other choice?

Right now, probably ducks.

Simply because you were doing some weird mental jumping jacks up there to justify your dislike of my posts and it reads to me like you're possibly setting me up to go down with the ship if your buddy gets lynched.

I do not still suspect Frogger and haven't since very early in the game. I cooled off on him after Glork showed up and started engaging me, then I caught onto more interesting things, like the Shaddox stuff. I have also not engaged him again in an attacking manner because I do not think he is scum and view his play as pretty genuine when it comes to hunting for mafia. It's also worth noting most of my town reasons for liking ducks dissipated throughout the day as I stated in this post Day 1.

So, if I had to call three mafia right now... it'd be Shaddox/you/ducks. I don't know why you suddenly think there are three mafia though, couldn't there be more or less? And I'm obviously not stating this is the gospel truth. I still have my eye on Untrod Tripod, who has masterfully done almost less than nothing by skirting around the edges, but nobody answered me when I mentioned finding his play odd and haven't seen anyone really sink into it.

I'm going to try stepping away from this thread for the evening and see if I can cool off a bit and maybe come back at this with a clear head tomorrow, but as of right now, I'd vote any of the aforementioned three people.

[KayP]

Kayp - You said that Glork was flying under the radar for you in part because he agreed with you on his reads. He's had you as scum since day one and these are his day two posts that mention you, so what reads are you exactly agreeing with?

He expressed interest in wanting Shaddox dead when nobody else did.

[KayP]

Do you want me to quote it again for you? Or is twice on the same page enough?

[KayP]

Okay. I went back and thought about it. I still feel like Tammy's posts are rubbing me the wrong way and wouldn't mind seeing her lynched, but I'm having a really hard time determining whether that's logical or purely emotional. One thing I will say is that I really disliked Glork's response to Tammy's stuff... it may have been a lot to respond to, but he basically just attempts to brush off the entire thing without so much as a single nod in Tammy's direction. I've seen so much of that attitude this game that it's fairly old by this point, but that's basically the only thing against Glork that I can be 100% on board with, I think. Tammy's points just don't do much for me overall.

I'm also really, really still wanting a Shaddox lynch. It's frustrating to me that my top suspect has replaced out after the pressure I put on him, and now his replacement just won't be able to answer my questions. It feels like the mafia equivalent of blue balls, and it's highly suspect to me that the replace out happened while under pressure. I won't be backing down from this, and I feel like there's blood in the water.

I think it's time for me to see where I am with each player:

Tammy/Bellaphant

: Still not a big fan of Bellaphant's early push against me, which then just caved in and gave way to a "cease-fire", followed by a jump onto me when prodded. I think Tammy's play is making it harder for me to really understand what I think about this player(s), because I already had resentment towards Bellaphant for reading me like that, and Tammy's personality and war of words with me has just made me more upset about that fact. I don't like Tammy's case against Glork, because it feels purely motivated from a mindset of attacking her attackers for the sake of discrediting them, and that feels like a scum tactic. I can't help but wonder if I'm bringing too much personal bias into this read.

Bob Loblaw

: Honestly, a player I haven't given much attention to, similar to Glork. Bob has been agreeing with my reads for the most part and thinks I'm town, which means he hasn't caught my eye or caused me to dig into his posts. I find it interesting that he has claimed he's an alternate account, though I don't think I can really use that in any way. I think I lean town on this guy for now just because his thoughts seem to align with mine, or at least... I can understand his thoughts, and I'm town, so he probably isn't able to emulate exact thought patterns of a townie that easily. (Also: I love Arrested Development! <3)

Fro99er

: I liked my early battle with him. It felt raw and fresh and fun. I think he was passionate. I backed down a bit from him after that exchange because it felt like he was justified. I'd be happy putting him in the town pile for now, and everything I've seen from him since then feels like an actual attempt to better understand the game and the players in it to make the right choice, rather than any kind of manipulation tactic.

Glork

: As I said earlier, he has flown under my radar because he was basically the only person agreeing with me on Shaddox D1. I guess that's a weakness of mine is ignoring people who like me or treat me as town. I don't find most of Tammy's points particularly compelling, but I do dislike his response to her points. I still think there are better options for a lynch, and I probably won't wind up supporting a Glork lynch barring some kind of serious revisiting of the points against Tammy from someone other than Tammy.

Green Crayons

: He followed me onto Frogger early on... and nobody made a peep about it. He supported Glork's vote on Bella after the one-liner as reasonable... and yet Tammy is completely focused on Glork. He joined me on Shaddox... but never gave a reason for his support. He spent a lot of Day 1 engaging in arguments with TTH and doing weird fake claiming stuff with Untrod Tripod. Now that I'm thinking about it, there's a lot here to dislike so far, but this is the first time I've sat down and really thought about it sequentially like that.

SleepyKrew/Kitty Galore

: Kitty did basically nothing, and SleepyKrew has done nothing so far as well. This is the most useless slot in the game because there's nothing to really go on here other than just neutral, grey, goopy content. Not impressed and definitely not liking how his stance so far seems to be "going to wait for the lynch today to happen then I'll start contributing". It basically allows him to stand off to the side and watch something happen without having any responsibility for anything today.

lalaladucks

: Oh ducks... I just don't know what to think about ducks. My town read on ducks at the start of the game was decently strong, but I think a lot of that was due to me viewing Frogger's attacks on her at the time as weird or phony. I think since then, I've had more issues with stances/plays she's made (as I explained to Tammy above), and I find the quick breakdown of the ducks wagon yesterday highly suspect. All D2 content/posts from her have been

awful

and with how the wagon seemingly just stopped yesterday, I'd be okay with a lynch here.

Shadoxx8/RedCoyote

: The first two posts Shaddox made in this game were

really

sketchy. The 'attack' against me is really suspicious as well -- not only were the points made weak or downright falsehoods, but Shaddox tries to brush it all away by going "I think KayP is scummiest, but isn't mafia"... which I guess I can understand thinking "the play is scummy but the player is town", but then Shaddox votes me anyway. It makes absolutely no sense and, to me, looks like Shaddox engaged me then wanted to back down from it but couldn't find an elegant way to do so.

The Bulge

: He did nothing Day 1. He had light questioning of me early on, which I responded to and he never followed up on... then he just claimed he hates Day 1 and stopped contributing. Today, he has done nothing as well. He has probably the least amount of content in the game, possibly less than Kitty/SleepyKrew. I guess I'll just say that with so little to dig into, there's nothing we can go on, and that this game is "short deadlines" which means it's very easy for mafia to just hide in the inactivity and let town kill each other. This seems like a pretty valid strategy in such a fast-paced game. I'd like to see Bulge eat some tasty, tasty rope

Untrod Tripod

: What even is this? I just looked at how many posts he has -- 43!! I was shocked by that number, because almost none of them feel useful, and I assumed he would have maybe 10 posts at most based on my fuzzy recollection of the game. Everyone seems to be just ignoring his weird stances and string of jokey comments and posts. I was okay with it earlier, to an extent, but at this stage in the game I'd expect someone with 43 posts to have more actual "oomph!" behind their posts.

---

All this thought exercise has done is show me I have way more potential mafia reads than I'd like to have, and it has me convinced that it's very likely mafia would hide behind inactivity or tactically be useless because the game's days go so quickly. I think, now, especially (which has changed since I started writing this post 45 minutes ago), that the stuff with me and Tammy and the stuff with Tammy and Glork is more likely to be all town simply because we're all "visible" for lack of a better word, and that we may be better off digging through this pile of inactives (Shaddox! Shaddox! Shaddox!) to weed out the mafia there.

[KayP]

oh great, we have two days to lynch someone and everyone is unvoting

Oh, please, you've done absolutely nothing then you show up right before deadline complaining about nothing being done?

[KayP]

Everyone seems to be just ignoring his weird stances and string of jokey comments and posts.

given your anime avatar and signature, I'd say there's a distinct chance that you don't get some of the finer nuances of human communication

Cute, coming from the guy also with an anime avatar! And given the way you've posted this game, I wouldn't really expect someone like you to be able to fully grasp the beauty of Ayn Rand's work. But really, keep on attacking me personally instead of providing content or doing anything, it's working!

[KayP]

buuuuuuuuuuut seriously

I like how KayP is relentlessly pursuing the goal of giving transparent thoughts and seemingly wants us to know everything ze's thinking

Ugh, now you're making me

not

want to call you an unenlightened troglodyte!

[KayP]

I'm 10+ pages in. I have two strong scumreads, but I'm given pause as neither of them are currently being voted. Taking a short break.

Why aren't you telling us your scumreads instead of just saying you have them?

Oh, right -- this is the Shaddox slot, isn't it?

VOTE: RedCoyote

Back to this, please! Will also consider lynching The Bulge seriously.

I should probably make a priority list.

[KayP]

LYNCH CANDIDATES IN ORDER OF PREFERENCE

RedCoyote > The Bulge > lalaladucks > Tammy > Green Crayons > Untrod Tripod > SleepyKrew > Glork > Frogger > Bob Loblaw

[KayP]

Why?

[KayP]

For anyone asking about my reasonings for putting people in certain spots, might I point you to this post on the last page where I outline my thoughts on the whole game?

I've never thought Glork to be scummy, and stated I had no reason to think he was scum since I disliked Tammy's points about him. The only point against him would be his response to Tammy.

The easier to breakdown version would be:

TOOOWN!

: Me, Bob, Frogger

GREY MURKY GOOPY NOTHINGNESS RIGHT NOW

: Glork, SleepyKrew, UT

SUSPICION LEVEL ABOVE NORMAL

: Green Crayons, Tammy, ducks

SCUUUM!

: RedCoyote, Bulge

This is sort of how I came up with that lynch order/preference list in the first place, by breaking it into "tiers", but I assumed people would want the list instead.

[KayP]

With only two real townreads, being null/neutral is going to place you pretty high on a list that features a good number of suspects.

[KayP]

Hmmm.

Gut reaction is internally shouting and fist-pumping because someone else finally said something about UT's weirdness!

Skeptical reaction is that RC is coming in and moving people away from the two major wagons towards a neutral third option as a scum tactic -- if UT is town, then RC is driving the wagon towards UT so that we'll be right back to Tammy vs Glork tomorrow.

I agree with most of his points on UT, though, that's not saying RC isn't mafia as well. Eurghhhh. I'll come back to this later.

[KayP]

I mentioned his behavior D1 a couple times IIRC and nobody batted an eye so I just assumed it was normal or something.

[KayP]

Sorry, doing my usual lunch check in but this time from phone, so I don't have much ability to type a lot

I don't see RC getting lynched today and it makes me sad bc it means I need to give up the Shaddox scum dream

but RC picked up on weirdness with UT and that makes me happy, and while I thought more ab Shaddox/RC, I thought they could be town and I might just be too stubborn to back down

I'm not really interested in Tammy/Glork anymore because it just looks like a bunch of fighting at this point. Glork's responses have been bad but I still don't find Tammy's case too compelling. If I was gonna lynch between them I would go with Tammy but even then I don't really want to do that since after I stepped back a bit and calmed down she looked just pretty genuine imo

Froggy makes good points too and I liked his breakdown of Glork/Tammy. Sorry I can't go into more detail right now, phone posting is terrible! I'll expound more later if people want

For now I think actually RC hit the nail on the head on the best option for today so as much as it pains me to join new Shaddox on a wagon, I have to admit it almost feels better to have someone finally pointing stuff out with UT's weirdness

VOTE: UT

[KayP]

as a note: I may not be around much tomorrow so I am going to try to get my vote finalized today and this evening

[KayP]

[KayP]

V/LA until Saturday

also walls are annoying please stop

What is the point of you? Just like... as a concept/entity?

VOTE: The Bulge

I 100% believe this has to happen. RC brings up yet another great point -- mafia don't really have to do anything other than "survive" the deadlines, and I actually am convinced (and have been for a bit now) that mafia are strategically "dodging" the deadlines because they see town are too busy tearing each other apart.

POST REVIEW: Aha! YES!

[KayP]

Hey guys -- there are a lot of pages since I last checked in. I'm heading to bed now and then I'll be busy most of the day tomorrow with deadlines at work, but I'll try to check in. Unfortunately, I won't be around Saturday at all as I have a family gathering a couple hours from home and won't be around a computer all day, so the deadline extension doesn't do much for me.

[KayP]

What the hell is happening? O.O

There are so many new players... this has been a trainwreck.

[KayP]

This has

not

been a trainwreck. You take that back.

@Sonic:

Glork saw ducks as a poor performing town player. Y/N/M?

Err, sorry, I guess. I'm not used to replacements at all where I'm from, let alone the vast majority of the game getting replaced. It makes this sort of not fun for me because I can't actually form a relationship or solid read on anyone since they disappear before I can. :S

I'm posting from my laptop during this work training that I'm stuck in all day, so I can't do any heavy reading or anything thanks to the need to be attentive. Ugh, who makes me pay attention for money!?

[KayP]

Didn't Untrod Tripod already claim a mason with you?

[KayP]

Anyways, NM didn't replace UT, NM replaced Bulge.

Oh goodness, my brain just completely broke down when I looked at the vote count. There were so many levels of fail in that post...

...I forgot you were the one who claimed masons with him... I forgot that you weren't voting UT... I forgot that NM replaced Bulge... Derp.

[KayP]

"I couldn't understand the vote count. Didn't you do this thing? I forget this other thing. I can't get a read. I'm posting from work." It's all kind of BS.

I don't think I've ever said any of this... did you only read my last two posts and then ignore the other 90ish and try to make a read out of it?

[KayP]

Oh yeah just a PSA... I sorta prefer to go by "they", or "she" if you have to use a pronoun. I had it up on my profile until someone in that site chat thing started making fun of me for it so I hid my gender preference.

[KayP]

Hey, ETL -- where do I stand in your reads list now? You had me at the bottom, but you're voting GC. Did you go back and ISO anyone and look at me differently, or is he just a bigger priority right now?

As a notice: I am now going to be limited access. I'm off work but in honor of the stellar civil rights victory, I'm going out to a park with some friends to hang out and celebrate! (Here's hoping Trans* rights are next!)

Then tomorrow I'm out of town for family stuff.

[KayP]

I still haven't fully recovered from this weekend (I'm so sunburnt), but... why aren't we doing this?

VOTE: SleepyKrew

Did he not claim the same thing a dead person claimed? I haven't read in full yet but that seems very questionable to me.

[KayP]

lala/KayP/?

Why do you think I am mafia?

[KayP]

We've discussed the claim pretty extensively, the vote sucked

Oh, okay, well... I didn't read everything yet because I've been busy, but I'll have things to say on that discussion when I do read it, hopefully.

I find it odd you have nothing better to do with your vote than vote someone who isn't caught up on the game. You

are

caught up... you should have better options, no? Because essentially you're saying that right now, my vote on SK is only invalid/bad because you guys have already discussed the reason for my vote and dealt with it... and you're saying that reasoning is the best thing you have to go on right now.

You are voting me for, essentially, not being caught up. And that's the best you can do? You're caught up, you know everything that's going on, and absolutely everything else that has happened previously is less urgent/suspicious than me making a placeholder vote while I catch up on the game? Really?

[KayP]

VOTE: KayP

And why are

you

voting me?

[KayP]

5 votes? That's quite the wagon for such an early, random stage.

page one scumread for this

I found it!

Why is this scummy?

[KayP]

where the hell is KayP

I gave fair and reasonable warning that I was going to be gone the last day of the deadline, which is why I wanted to sort out my vote ahead of time. Then the deadline got extended and I already had planned to be out of town with family.

[KayP]

Uhh.

Ducks claimed Backup IC, too... so it's not just about SleepyKrew lying at this point or whether he's telling the truth, it's about whether there are THREE backup ICs in this game?

That seems like a stretch. After reading, I could sort of buy the argument that two backup ICs and no actual IC would be a funny setup for the mod to use, but three of them in a normal seems very excessive...

I don't know which of ducks or SleepyKrew would be more likely to be lying, though.

[KayP]

Not really... this is my first game on the site and I had read through a couple other games, and in those few other games I read, there was no such crazy fast early wagon. I thought such a fast wagon was peculiar, and was more making that statement because to me, it seemed out of the ordinary and possibly suspicious. But nobody else seemed to have a problem with the wagon, so I was sort of putting it out there for someone more veteran than me to comment on... and seemingly, it was nothing, and this kind of things happens often, just not in the games I read. I actually already explained this right after that post here, when others had similar concerns.

"Information instead of analysis" would be if I had just said "This wagon has five votes" and that's it. And "the purpose of the post" was not to look active, it was to inquire about whether this was standard or not for this website.

[KayP]

* Wild theory: NM and ducks are on the same scum team


VOTE: NM

Err...so why vote NM over ducks?

[KayP]

Ah, I missed the footnote. My apologies.

[KayP]

I need to go back and read NM in ISO to figure this out. I had bad feelings about the Bulge then sort of checked out at the end of the day yesterday, and something about NM's vote on me today really bothers me.

[KayP]

Okay, I intend to hammer NotMafia.

Bulge was bad and NM has done very little in the way of assuaging my concerns since replacing in. Couple that with his knee jerk vote on me for flimsy reasoning, and I'm on board with this.

[KayP]

FWIW: I find "jokes" like ducks claims he did highly suspect, since anyone could just claim "oh haha it was a joke!"

[KayP]

Is that it? That's all you have to say when I state an intent to hammer?

Fine then. Die scum die!

VOTE: NotMafia

[KayP]

Oh. My. God.

I am so damn sorry... I got NotMafia's suspicion of me/ducks confused with BBmolla's kneejerk vote on me.

Crap crap crap crap crap. Seriously that's awful. It just felt like NM taunting me. Dammit. I'm sorry I didn't mean to fuck up this badly on my first game on the site.

[KayP]

Also, I did some math overnight... people are saying there are three mafia, which would mean right now we have 3 mafia, 4 town. So this is the end of the game isn't it? As in, nobody can vote willy-nilly.

Based off on NM's flip, I personally feel that ducks is the most likely scum. Obviously, there are more mafia out there, but for me, I think ducks is a pretty good bet right now... but I'd almost prefer to find the common denominator/partners first before voting for her.

[KayP]

*exaggerated eye roll*

[KayP]

KayP/Ducks/GC seems plausible. Metal seems plausible, his turn off of you and onto NM was pretty crap too. Hell, BobLob/Tere/Chaos seem plausible as well, but it's a distant third option because I've townread that slot all game. Going to need to ISO CO.

This isn't the team, I promise you... but I'll admit, your argument went a bit towards getting me to just want to lynch ducks today.

[KayP]

I'm a Vanilla Townie

[KayP]

Hmm. Let me break this down in my head now that we have all of the things out on the table.

DEAD

Bicephalous Bob, Town Odd-Night Role Cop
TellTaleHeart, Town Backup Innocent Child
RedCoyote, Vanilla Townie
EspeciallyTheLies, Vanilla Townie
Not_Mafia, Vanilla Townie
BBmolla, Vanilla Townie

LIVING

ChaosOmega: Town Even-Night Rolecop
Frogger: ???????
Metal Sonic: ??????
Green Crayons: Town Encryptor Enabler
KayP: Vanilla Townie
SleepyKrew: Town Backup Innocent Child
lalaladucks: Vanilla Townie


So... basically, if I'm understanding this correctly, Green Crayons is saying that he has a role that lets the mafia have an Encryptor, and an Encryptor lets them talk during the day. I guess that's alright, though I don't really see how that's a good thing for the mafia? I guess it's better than not talking during the day at all, but it just doesn't seem that powerful to me.

Now, I looked at the wiki for rolecop, and something interesting caught my eye:

A Role Cop that returns only their target's full role name and not alignment is considered Normal on mafiascum.net. A

Mafia Goon or a Serial Killer with no other abilities should give the same result as a Vanilla Townie

. In the case of an X-Shot role, the Role Cop should be told how many shots the role started with. not how many shots used/remaining. Trying to investigate an Ascetic role should return "No Result", the same as if the Role Cop had been blocked.

Here, it states that role cops do not return full results on people. So, if Green Crayons really did believe ChaosOmega's claim, it says nothing about lalaladucks being town, it just means that she's a vanilla mafia or vanilla town or vanilla Serial Killer (<--- obviously not likely). Green Crayons has been around here

thirteen years

and didn't know that? I think it's more likely that he was chomping at the bit to clear a buddy of his and pin it back on me since he's already seen some people tossing my name around recently.

I'm not even sure that I believe ChaosOmega's claim. I was reading back through his ISO posts and I found this gem:

So I was reading through this before, and then I got confused, and then I started drinking, and now I'm just fucking staring at the screen.

I looked at Sks iso, it's shitty, but I don't think it's scum-shitty. I would normally give GC shit for wanting a nl here, but I'm pretty understanding of it in this case. If the numbers worked out better (even players), I'd be more for it.

I understand the SK lynch in that he hasn't contributed much and has suspicion now, so he won't be a nk, but we get dick for information from it. It's gut, but looking through his posts, I don't get a feel of scum avoiding info, it reads as town confusion.

That said, I don't really have another suspect to push forward. N_M isn't blowing up my skirt (you wanna talk shitty iso's ETL, look at The Bulge's). N_M, your role is citizen and not vanilla townie? is having 2 flavors of vanilla allowed in normals? But N_M's posting is decent I think. 1073 is weird. You read up to 17, say the SK slot is devoid of content, but he hasn't posted yet. I guess you're basing it off Kitty Galore, who wasn't a prolific poster at all, but it reads like you're just a hobo jumping on the SK train.

VOTE: Not_mafia

I think I'd rather lynch here. I won't mourn Sk's lynch if it comes to that, and I'll switch to it to prevent a nl, but I think N_M has a better chance of flipping scum. This is mainly gut, and I imagine some people won't be a fan, but it's whatev.

CO doesn't have a suspect to put forward here, and he says NotMafia's posting is decent, and then just votes him at the end of the post. There's a whole lot of cognitive dissonance going on within a single post here... CO contradicts himself a couple of times, and he also only considers SK or NM for lynches and doesn't even bother mentioning anyone else. He couldn't even make his vote look justified -- he just saw two wagons in NM and SK and lazily threw his vote on the pile. This rubbed me the wrong way.

I'm disinclined to believe the claim. Pending no Innocent Child claims at this stage from Frogger or Metal Sonic, I'm also inclined to believe SleepyKrew's claim and want him taken off the table completely. I've never designed or run games before so I don't know what balance looks like, but I know for me, ChaosOmega's opportunistic jump onto NotMafia and the gross words behind it make me want to lynch him, and the symmetry of that claim against the dead Odd-Night Rolecop makes it too easy of a falseclaim for him to come up with... or maybe it's even his actual role, but a mafia version of it. I could see that, actually -- but right now, I think my preference lies with ChaosOmega. I'm not sure what CO being scum would mean for potential partners.

POST REVIEW EDIT -- Holy butts, that's a lot of posts.

[KayP]

Hmm. Okay, I guess Green Crayons just didn't know and took it back? Maybe I got too eager with that and thought it was a slip up when it wasn't.

*sigh*

I don't really know where to go from here. My tummy is grumbling at me, screaming about ducks, and every time I see yet another disgusting appeal to emotion from ducks, it makes it grumble louder. I've documented my reasons for not liking ducky's play this game, but the sad faces and "oh no town loses" posts are making me even more sure I'm right. But my logical, rational portion of my brain is telling me to look at ChaosOmega. I suppose it could be both. I wish I knew more about how setups are made and what typical numbers are to be able to break this down further but it's sort of hurting my brainwrinkles a little bit.

[KayP]

Huh. Okay.

DEAD
Bicephalous Bob, Town Odd-Night Role Cop
TellTaleHeart, Town Backup Innocent Child
RedCoyote, Vanilla Townie
EspeciallyTheLies, Vanilla Townie
Not_Mafia, Vanilla Townie
BBmolla, Vanilla Townie

LIVING
ChaosOmega: Town Even-Night Rolecop
Frogger: Vanilla Townie
Metal Sonic: Town Non-Consecutive Doctor
Green Crayons: Town Encryptor Enabler
KayP: Vanilla Townie
SleepyKrew: Town Backup Innocent Child
lalaladucks: Vanilla Townie

So... I really don't think both scum would claim VT like that, so I don't think it's Frogger+Ducks. Probably one of them actually, but not both. (Hint: it's probably ducks.)

ChaosOmega's role "fitting" with Odd-Night Rolecop doesn't mean he's cleared. I mean, unless the moderator just designed the setup so everything fits nicely hand in hand, then I don't think town having two role cops makes a lot of sense.

"Non-Consecutive Doctor" makes sense and doesn't seem too out there or anything.

[KayP]

I really dislike GC trying to "clear" ChaosOmega, who had the scummiest hop onto the NM wagon and has been inconsistent/lurking. Just because people are claiming now... I don't know, it seems like GC is so willing to disregard the entirety of the rest of the game, and I don't like that.

[KayP]

ChaosOmega/ducky/GC is actually starting to make more and more sense in my brain, I think.

[KayP]

KayP, if you could just tell us who you partners are, that'd be great.

Nice response to anything that I've said so far!

You can die now, scum.

[KayP]

Here's a little novela I wrote, entitled: A Week With ChaosOmega

Sup. At work for a while, will try to read and catch up within a few hours.

Promise to catch up within a few hours. Note: his next post was about 15 hours later, and roughly ten pages of content happened in that time, including the NM momentum picking up and the SK tension beginning to bubble.

So I was reading through this before, and then I got confused, and then I started drinking, and now I'm just fucking staring at the screen.

I looked at Sks iso, it's shitty, but I don't think it's scum-shitty. I would normally give GC shit for wanting a nl here, but I'm pretty understanding of it in this case. If the numbers worked out better (even players), I'd be more for it.

I understand the SK lynch in that he hasn't contributed much and has suspicion now, so he won't be a nk, but we get dick for information from it. It's gut, but looking through his posts, I don't get a feel of scum avoiding info, it reads as town confusion.

That said, I don't really have another suspect to push forward. N_M isn't blowing up my skirt (you wanna talk shitty iso's ETL, look at The Bulge's). N_M, your role is citizen and not vanilla townie? is having 2 flavors of vanilla allowed in normals? But N_M's posting is decent I think. 1073 is weird. You read up to 17, say the SK slot is devoid of content, but he hasn't posted yet. I guess you're basing it off Kitty Galore, who wasn't a prolific poster at all, but it reads like you're just a hobo jumping on the SK train.

VOTE: Not_mafia

I think I'd rather lynch here. I won't mourn Sk's lynch if it comes to that, and I'll switch to it to prevent a nl, but I think N_M has a better chance of flipping scum. This is mainly gut, and I imagine some people won't be a fan, but it's whatev.

I've already commented on this, but here's a bulleted list of my issues with this "catch up post":

• It's not a catch-up post.
  
• It ignores about 85% of the game and instead focuses on the false dichotomy between SleepyKrew and NotMafia.
  
• He contradicts his own vote by saying he doesn't think NM is that scummy and actually says his posting his decent.
  
• He fence-sits on GC (calls out his wanting a no lynch... just to say "nah" and let it go!)

This is ChaosOmega's "big" entrance into the game.

Pretty sure the IC claim was just a troll, I won't be surprised whatever SK's flip, but I don't see any better option springing up and it's certainly better than a no lynch

I mean, you're the other option.

I am trying to understand your logic of "lynch null" vs "lynch obvious bullshit".

Because the obvious bullshit reads as town?

ETL, why would SK claim something so outrageous as scum?

UNVOTE: SleepyKrew; VOTE: Not_Mafia

SK's claim is effectively provable at some point. SK does not need to be lynched today.

Is it effectively provable without lynching him at some point?

This is more posturing... here, ChaosOmega sits on the sidelines and keeps stirring the "NotMafia or SleepyKrew" fires. He even goes as far now to say that

SleepyKrew will have to be lynched at some point

, yet he's still voting NotMafia, the player he thinks has decent posting and isn't that scummy. This makes NO SENSE from a town perspective. Townies would not vote for someone they don't think is scum when they have a player they're claiming

has

to be lynched at some point anyway.

If there are 2 back up ICs then there isn't a regular IC

Sherlock Holmes on the case.

Now he's just taking potshots at NotMafia... why? To discredit him? To throw shade his way? I posit that ChaosOmega is trying to speak negatively towards NM because he's trying to justify his vote on NM after the fact. He saw the wagon and voted him despite thinking he is town, so this is just a way for him to align his behavior in thread towards NM with his vote on him.

Real talk, I'm going to be leaving for a housewarming party soon, and I will be gone until after deadline. I'll have my phone, and I'll check in before deadline to help ensure a lynch.

Not worth discussing (AFK announcement).

I'm here. Rc lynch is ok I guess.

Chimes in supporting the RC lynch. Does NOT vote RC. Gives no reasons for liking the lynch or even reads/opinions on ANYTHING else in the game. He doesn't even commit to the RC lynch -- says it is "ok I guess". This is incredibly wishy washy. And what happened to SleepyKrew needing to be lynched to prove his claim at some point?

I am an even-night role cop (hello scum night kill!)

N2, lalalalalalaladucks returned vanilla.

Claim.

lala could still be scum, a mafia goon would give me a result of vanilla.

Claim clarification.

KayP, if you could just tell us who you partners are, that'd be great.

Now suddenly, I'm scum, and CO continues to ignore the entirety of the game and only focus on what has momentum. It's opportunistic. What happened to his "catch up" on the game? He has not even mentioned the name of Frogger or Metal Sonic. He has only mentioned me once, when suddenly he thinks I'm mafia.

He doesn't truly believe his own posts because he's just making stuff up to go along with whatever gets him through the day and gets a townie lynched. He didn't even follow his own logic and stated reasons for NotMafia. He half-assed his support of the RC wagon. And now he's piling onto the "KayP is scum" bandwagon that some people have been floating around, and he has no basis, reasoning, or history of wanting it. His actions show a clear scum motivation and aren't backed by any sort of town thought process.

[KayP]

so it looks like scum had a nice long chat at night between ducky's claim and ducky's retract.

But if you believe GC's claim, then mafia have day talk, so them talking at night really doesn't matter?

[KayP]

OH MY GOD! GUYS!

[KayP]

CO claimed to have investigated ducky right?

Ducky claimed the Backup IC on Day 2.

CO claims to investigate ducky N2 and get "vanilla".

Day 3, CO knows that Ducky is lying about the claim, and DOESN'T TELL US?

He doesn't post ANYTHING ABOUT IT.

[KayP]

I'm going to post this in big bold letters because I think it just solves the game:

CHAOSOMEGA HAD A RESULT THAT SAID DUCKY WAS LYING AND DIDN'T CLAIM ANYTHING

[KayP]

No, I'm sorry, I'm not willing to let him slide just because he's lurking.

He's a supposed town power role that got a night result CONFIRMING someone was lying. He at least submitted a night action, so he WAS around during the night and knew ducky had claimed not-vanilla when he got the vanilla result.

Then he just lurks? He doesn't come BURSTING into the thread with that result? No, I'm sorry, I'm not willing to let that slide. That is b/s.

Here's what really happened: he's fakeclaiming. He didn't investigate ducky. He made up his claim and either 1) forgot ducky had fake claimed Backup IC and just looked at the list of claims and saw Vanilla Townie.... or 2) is buddies with ducky and knew ducky was a goon so it would be a safe claim.

CO is mafia.

[KayP]

I'm going to post this in big bold letters because I think it just solves the game:

CHAOSOMEGA HAD A RESULT THAT SAID DUCKY WAS LYING AND DIDN'T CLAIM ANYTHING

this is not accurate: CO didn't post anything between when ducky claimed and ducky retracted. It was *possible* that he didn't have time to respond between those points

And YES, it IS accurate, what are you talking about? You're brushing away a pretty DAMNING piece of evidence. ChaosOmega didn't even mention the discrepancy in his claim post. You're IGNORING the discrepancy and the ENTIRETY of my case I posted against him to funnel your efforts on ducky.

Are you CO's buddy?

[KayP]

KayP, calm down, the adults are talking.

And I copped lala, it's an even-night action and I replaced in D2.

You both are doing this....thing. You think that dismissing me because I'm new will make people not listen to me?

Keep trying. I won't shut up.

[KayP]

MS, ChaosOmega replaced in D2.

[KayP]

I'm getting worked up, I need to get some tea. @_@

[KayP]

Ye gods, ducky, are you going to comment on anything relevant or post your thoughts/opinions on things?

[KayP]

Are you even reading the posts? Sure, some people are on you... but I've said clearly that I'd much rather lynch elsewhere, and I think I've found the hot spot with Chaos.

What do you think of my post regarding his play this game and his claim?

[KayP]

I am sure that at least one of {Kay/MS/Frog} is scum

probably MS first, then Frog, then Kay in order of scumbumbliness?

uhhh yeah I'm reading them!!

except the really long ones I always procrastinate on the walls

thoughts? Chaos = scum is a viable theory I think

but BobLob was very town

he did say he was an alt

might be a super pro player that's really awesome buuuuut I'd say leaning town actually on that slot

yeah, if I had to pick scum/town - I'd say Chaos is town

Why was BobLob so town?

If MS is the scummiest, then who do you think his buddies are?

Do you think Sleepykrew's claim is true?

What're your thoughts on GC's claim and play?

[KayP]

And I didn't think lalalalalala was serious with the backup IC claim.

If you didn't think ducks was serious about the IC claim, then why would you feel the need to rolecop her if you believed her VT claim?

[KayP]

I can't see Chaos lying given ducky's actions, and I've townread BobLob slot the whole game, so I'm inclined to belive it.

KayP, Ducky, and {metal or GC} is still where I'm at, still leaning a good bit toward Metal

Just to be clear, Frogger... this is still what you think?

You think it's me, ducks, and Metal, right?

So... when I just gave ducks an opening to join me in supporting a wagon/push on ChaosOmega, she instead opted to call him town and say her preference is her buddy, Metal Sonic? How does that make sense?

POST REVIEW-- Ahhh SleepyKrew, are you sensing a potential Metal Sonic/ducky/ChaosOmega team?

[KayP]

I still want GC to come back and post more but right now I could actually buy that trio probably more than anything else.

I'm about to be out for most of the afternoon/evening, but I'll pop back in tonight sometime. This weekend is tricky with the holiday because I'm going to my parents' lakehouse, which has no A/C or Internet!

POST REVIEW-- Ace Attorney music is quite inspiring for figuring out this sordid affair

[KayP]

Sleepy is town because he's a Backup IC, but thanks for the update Metal.

[KayP]

So you thought she was lying about being a VT

and

being a backup IC?

And then you got a result saying she was lying about the backup IC and decided not to say anything?

[KayP]

KayP quick question what's your preferred pronoun?

"They" or "she"... I'm not really too particular about it, I just don't like "he".

[KayP]

I don't think scum have daytalk?

:/
Why did you choose to hide the fact that you knew scum had day talk?

Oh. My. God.

This is incredible!

[KayP]

Ughh.

I'm leaving in a bit and will be gone until Monday as well, barring random internet access. Should I vote before I leave?

[KayP]

Okay, I've seen enough.

VOTE: lalaladucks

I'm pretty confident on this one, and I'm about to be gone for the weekend... when I get internet access, I'll see where the wagons are at because I am still 100% convinced ChaosOmega is mafia as well and wouldn't mind putting my vote there.

[KayP]

EEEEEEEEEEEE! We won!!!!!

I'm fine with making our topic public, I think it'd be cool to see our strategizing and see just how much we thought ahead and planned.

The deadline extension made Glork really upset, and I understand that totally. The replacements felt like they hurt us a bit, but the inactivity overall hurt town a lot.

I knew I would be the weak link in the team so really it coming down to me the last day was all part of the plan... trying to make it me/ducks was what Frogger's whole intention was.

[KayP]

RC's compliment in the dead topic made me smile ear-to-ear.

[KayP]

This was a fun first game on this site. I liked the pace of it, it's more akin to games I've played elsewhere.

Frogger really did a bang-up job here. He carried us pretty far, and Metal Sonic was a great partner who defended me and kept a lot of attention off of me. I was the weakest member of the mafia team, but the two of them played it perfectly, so I'm very grateful for them.