Mini 1697 - a Re-balanced Game of Mafia - GAME OVER

[eventi]

VOTE: Quaroath because I can't pronounce it in my head

1) Third game here, a few times IRL and ToS way too much.
2) eh... depends if interesting things are happening. It's hard to force miniscule reads, esp. D1
3) irl, probably. Here, no.

[eventi]

Well that was easy

[eventi]

Would you all agree that I'm either causing or contributing to a negative play experience in this game?

I'm not done reading the whole thread, but RadiantCowbells is already getting on my nerves

[eventi]

I want your soul roasted on a spit.

I didn't reaction test at all, besides the vote on you which is exactly what you do in RVS; randomly vote.

Firebringer is awfully defensive.

So you defend your vote as random, but then follow with suspicion? This doesn't constitute a serious vote. It's still reaction testing.

Alright.

I'm really feeling a Thesp/Firebringer scumteam because I placed a non-RVS on Fire and Thesp immediately tries to reset the game by asking a random question.

Forget about that crap, vote Fire.

Nope - this would preclude anyone from being able to do anything but react to your vote, and it wasn't really a serious vote.

There's a definite deliberateness to the post.

I'm not buying that he didn't read my vote, and I'm not buying that he just decided to ignore it and ask pointless random questions, especially since he specifically requested that everyone respond, ie drop what they're doing and answer his questions that aren't related to the game.

I don't think there's any point continuing to debunk this... seems like the rest of the town has seen through it, and Thesp defended it himself.

...

Firebringer may still be scum, but Cowbells is trying unnaturally hard to paint Thesp as scummy no matter what, and her logic is reachy as hell.

You're either stupid or scum.

VOTE: Alchemist21

I think Firebringer might have been a red herring and now we have Alchemist chainsawing Thesp because I wouldn't drop the issue.

Intimidation - This is how you react when someone questions you? Who's defensive now? You're working against the town if you dissuade discussion by intimidation and insults.

...
Shitty town players are higher priority lynches than scum.

I don't think it's likely that you're really chainsawing Thesp this hard, but I do think you're going to be a liability as long as you're alive so I'm going to rid myself of it.

Last time I left a bunch of terrible town players alive I got mislynched D3 and they couldn't lynch the last scum in 4 day phases.

My literal last words were calling that person out for deliberately misrepresenting me.

So no, I don't care if it's TvT. That's not happening again.

Now you advocate voting against town? We've all been mislynched, it's part of the game.

I'm feeling really shitty about mafia right now.

I don't feel like doing this.

Would you all agree that I'm either causing or contributing to a negative play experience in this game?

VOTE: RadiantCowbells One of the main reasons I couldn't jump into the conversation yesterday was the pointless and confusing posts by Radiant. Confusing town into a mislynch, or intentionally voting town (regardless of the reason) is scummy.

[eventi]

How is it scum driven?

[eventi]

I clearly spelled out the reasons for my vote, I don't know why you keep calling it opportunistic.

And why do you spend SO much energy defending Radiant? You even come when he calls:

Netherspite, hop over?

I'll take the red beam.

@RadiantCowbells

What do you think about

TheDominator37

?

Firebringer

is awkward but I'm not sure yet about him.

You're like a puppy, man! Your last post was 5PM the day before, he calls for you and you reply within 8 minutes?

[eventi]

I'm feeling really shitty about mafia right now.

I don't feel like doing this.

I'm sorry to hear that. Take a day off if you need to do so, we'll still be here. I hope you can enjoy the game rather than get too wrapped up in it.

What a good guy! I'm being sincere.

I'm not keen on the RadiantCowbells wagon. I don't mind the Firebringer wagon. All Alone rubs me the wrong way kind of, but I feel like that's because of the vote on me. While I agree with a lot of what eventi says, he seems to be ignoring (or not commenting) on a lot of other things, which I'm not keen on.

VOTE: Sword Master
Post or Perish. I'm just as happy to move my vote to eventi, and if I had two separate votes that's where they would be.

What do you think I should have commented on that I didn't? I wasn't giving a blow by blow commentary on the whole of the game, I was making a case against RadiantCowbells.

[eventi]

What do you think I should have commented on that I didn't?

I wasn't expecting a blow-by-blow commentary on the whole game, but not having mentioned any other player at that point feels very odd to me.

I'll post more of an overview/catchup at some point. Right now real life is making that hard. But what you said was

...

I'm not keen on the RadiantCowbells wagon. I don't mind the Firebringer wagon. All Alone rubs me the wrong way kind of, but I feel like that's because of the vote on me. While I agree with a lot of what eventi says,

he seems to be ignoring (or not commenting) on a lot of other things

, which I'm not keen on.

Are you saying that I'm willfully

ignoring

something in my argument; that I'm being intentionally misleading?

I think this is a pretty good Day 1, actually.

It is definitely turning up I'm enjoying it more.

[eventi]

eventi

I see nothing wrong with working together and defending someone who I townread and who is at the risk of being mislynched by the opportunistic scum like you.

It didn't start with me.

And yes your vote was opportunistic considering you did nothing the whole game before an easy wagon appeared and provided little to no arguments supporting your stance.

Little to no argument? I guess if you don't want to read it there's nothing I can do about it.

Your last post was 5PM the day before, he calls for you and you reply within 8 minutes?

Btw, it was 23:00 previous day, not the 17:00

Spoiler: Whoa, TIMEZONES!!!

But that's not important. It's a red herring - the interesting bit was how you hadn't been posting for hours, and then come running 8 minutes after RadiantCowbells comes calling. Woof!

[eventi]

It didn't start with me.

That's exactly why I call you opportunistic scum.
1. Wait for the easy mislynch wagon to appear.
2. Hop on it.
3. If someone questions you - just say "it wasn't me who started it!"
4. PROFIT!

My statement was not about my RC vote, it was about the pattern of you defending him so this isn't relevant to that discussion. So point #3 is invalid and your argument is invalid.

Little to no argument? I guess if you don't want to read it there's nothing I can do about it.

I've read your "arguments" I just don't find them strong enough for the vote.

So it's not "little or no argument" as you said, it's just that you disagree with it. So your logic in that case is breaking down too.

Spoiler: Whoa, TIMEZONES!!!

But that's not important. It's a red herring - the interesting bit was how you hadn't been posting for hours, and then come running 8 minutes after RadiantCowbells comes calling. Woof!

Yeah, timezones.
Surprisingly, not everyone lives in the NA.

Anyway, using timing as an argument in such a slow games like MS with people being busy IRL for large periods of time is just meh.

[eventi]

This whole doggy line of reasoning makes no sense.

If you think that we're scumpartners, why would we make it super obvious with our mutual townreads and "coming running in 8 minutes after RadiantCowbells comes calling."

And if we're both town, then how is us buddying up not a good thing.

And if you're just calling one of us town and the other scum, what's the point of this whole doggy business?

All I really did is ask the question and challenge his illogical responses. Fire jumped right on though, didn't he.

I'm coming around to the idea that you are town by getting into your mindset on those first few pages. I still think it makes no sense to move into serious votes when only TWO people had posted (you and fire) and I think you pushed it to nonsensical lengths and lashed out at anyone who disagreed with you, but I no longer think it was intended to confuse.

Assuming for the moment that you're town.

Nether's first post is a sheep of your vote. It's unusual to have two votes on one player that early. It's supposedly random, but you claim by that point to have been serious about Fire. I think he's buddying you from the beginning. He spends some time while you're away poking at players who claim scum in Thesp's RQ, and then returns when called (61/62) You already thought to bring him into your discussion of Fire, but there's hardly any reason it would be him you call to. I think you already thought he'd agree with you. I assumed at the time that you had played together before, but still find it weird that he posts so quickly.

Nether is the first to call someone town (83), and it's you and Alchemist. Also "YOU ARE TOWN" from 85
111 He votes Fire in response to Fire voting you.
130 He appeals to Quaroath after he votes you.
134 He calls your wagon scumdriven after I vote you.
136 Here's a trademark Nether argument defending you: Four weak points with no basis in reality supposedly adding up to a logical conclusion.

Netherspite really hasn't done anything but defend you and defend his silly arguments defending you

Again, I'm not claiming scum team, I'm just saying that Nether is following you like a puppy. If you're town, he's manipulating you and you should distance yourself.

I remember in my first scum game on this site when I noticed a townblock between Candillan and Ravenpaw and to break it up my strategy for a long time was to do exactly what he's doing now; spinning a mutual townread that formed a townbloc and started pushing lynches into something manipulative, and I eventually won by making Candillan vote Ravenpaw.

I like the Eventi wagon.

VOTE: Eventi

That's a lovely anecdote, but a weak analogy. That's a popular vote though.

[eventi]

@eventi

You do not make any sense in that case.
"It didn't start with me"? Me defending

RadiantCowbells

wasn't started by you? Really? So what?

I'm starting to think you're incapable of logical discussion

[eventi]

@eventi

You do not make any sense in that case.
"It didn't start with me"? Me defending

RadiantCowbells

wasn't started by you? Really? So what?

I'm starting to think you're incapable of logical discussion

You're either completely insane or forgetting what you just said.
Care to explain what did you mean here:

eventi

I see nothing wrong with working together and defending someone who I townread and who is at the risk of being mislynched by the opportunistic scum like you.

It didn't start with me.

If this is not "his wagon didn't start with me" and not "defending him didn't start with me" then it should be something completely insane and weird.
I am losing the flow of your 'logical discussion'.

I meant the defending of RC didn't start with defending him against me. Not the wagon, which was the straw man you initially argued against. You said "So What" if it didn't start with me, but your argument was that it was OK to defend against scum like me. I was pointing out that it wasn't just me that you defended Radiant against.

I say you're incapable of logical discussion because you always seem to argue some point I'm not making.

You always say something, though. Unfortunately for you it's always something irrelevant to the argument.

[eventi]

Nether and eventi are looking like scum buddies VOTE: nether

Never heard more funny jokes.

I finally agree with you

[eventi]

VOTE: Netherspite I had intended to vote at the end of 201 but just noticed that it was cut off when I went to go count votes... Reasons are all over this page.

[eventi]

Nether and eventi are looking like scum buddies VOTE: nether

Though I agree with it, this vote is insane. TheDominator37 is clearly just jumping from wagon to wagon

[eventi]

@Quaroath what is your read on Radiant?
You think that Nether and him would make it so obvious they were scum buddies?
I mean showing buddy relations this early seems unlikely but who knows.

Keeping vote on RC though, We can lynch Nether tomorrow if RC flips mafia.

Meh. I think RC is tryhard town. She's NOT worth lynching right now simply because she is movign the game. She'll catch herself up later on in the game if shes scum.

She's not a good D1 lynch at all.

That said, I don't look for buddy combo's day one. I don't think it's worth exploration before the first flip. I'm aware that's not common, but trying to tie people together D1 has consistently in the post caused me to make major mistakes and I've lost town games simply by doing that.

Mostly because I'm aware I can be manipulated later on if I start talking about my tie-ins early.

I think this is my favorite post of the game thusfar. Townread on Quaroath, although when I'm still tripping up on the name in my head - it's like reading Dostoyevsky

[eventi]

Reading "Dostoyevsky" is easy
For a native speaker at least.

Anyway,

TheDominator37

is not making any sense since the beginning.
His last post actually makes me feel a bit better about you.
Not ready to move my vote though.
Need to re-read couple of ISOs.

I wish I could read it in Russian. Stop agreeing with me, it's scary!!

[eventi]

touché

[eventi]

Netherspite is a terrible wagon and everyone in it right now should feel bad.

Why do you townread Netherspite?

[eventi]

Netherspite, you don't find any problem with that vote? I know we're supposedly enemies, but you gotta see that PMysterious' vote was kinda bullshit for the same reasons you gave against my Radiant vote. If gameplay is supposedly the reason you're voting me, you gotta be livid about PMysterious.

[eventi]

I was town-reading Eventi in the early game. I didn't agree that his vote on RC was opportunistic, he backed it up with quotes from the text and explained what he didn't like about them. Yeah, scum can do that too, but opportunistic is still the wrong label. Dom's 146 and 210 are what I would characterize as opportunistic, vague reasons like "I think they're the most scummy atm" on popular bandwagons.

But back to eventi, his early case on Nethersprite was based off of timezone stuff, which is pretty bad reasoning. Later he said that Nether was following RC like a puppy, which was true early game, and definitely more of a case than timezones, but I still don't like associative lynches on day 1. And then a few of his later posts were ad hominem attacks, like 206.

So, now I'm weakly scum-reading eventi.

It wasn't based on timezones, that was Netherspite's assertion. I said it was suspicious that after being away for 12+ hours Nether popped out of nowhere when Radiant called. Nether picked on me using my local time in my post which was a mistake, but not relevant to my argument.

Anyway, thanks for coming out so strong.

[eventi]

It wasn't based on timezones, that was Netherspite's assertion. I said it was suspicious that after being away for 12+ hours Nether popped out of nowhere when Radiant called. Nether picked on me using my local time in my post which was a mistake, but not relevant to my argument.

Actually, timezones stuff makes the whole argument invalid: it's obvious I stopped posting at 23:00 because, well, I was going to sleep.

But the point isn't when you stopped posting it's how you quickly jumped back in after Radiant called you, as I said 186 & 272. Keep bringing up time zones though, it seems to be working.

I seem to have drawn so much suspicion to myself by targeting people I think are scum instead of just tossing out an opportune target like TheDominator or PMysterious did. I'm at the beach, trying to get some rest in before going back to work Monday so I'm just going to lay back and observe for a while and try not to let this bug me too much. See you Monday

@mod

V/LA until Monday

[eventi]

VOTE: Thesp
Of all the people on the train, RC and Nether are just

[eventi]

I tried posting from my phone on my trip home from vacation at a rest stop... let's try to not read into what it's obviously a mistake.

RC and Nether are butthurt that I attacked them and TheDevistator is just a clown, but Thesp is calculated and manipulative. When I am lynched and flip town remember how I got here.

[eventi]

Netherspite is a terrible wagon and everyone in it right now should feel bad.

Why do you townread Netherspite?

I'd still like an answer to this.

[eventi]

@Eventi, because he's town.

Why shouldn't I townread Netherspite?

You don't think it's maybe because he's been buddying you from the start?

[eventi]

...and whoever's on the next train

[eventi]

Dominator basically scumreads everyone as soon as they get a vote.

He's honestly too scummy to be scum.

I don't see the point for the townie to act like him.
Neither for scum.
He looks like a troll or something.

That's the reason scum would act like this... nobody will vote for him

[eventi]

I think it's a shame we're letting TheDominator get away with his behavior

[eventi]

I think it's a shame we're letting TheDominator get away with his behavior

That's why you're voting

Thesp

instead of him?

Also, what exactly happened between #290 where you call him just a clown and #316 where you seem to be first time suspecting him?

Oh my goodness that's amazing. It would be so great to lynch both eventi and TheDominator37.

LOL, Amazing? How so? I think you might have some confirmation bias at this point.

[eventi]

Your post wasn't worth replying to. My opinion of TheDominator has been the same since 216, and you just call everything I do into suspicion. It's the only shtick you have. I do take issue with Thesp calling it amazing, though, and I'd like to hear what's so amazing about it from him if you could let him answer.

[eventi]

@mod, we have a lot of overdue prods, and could use a vote count, please.

[eventi]

Yes. As a matter of fact, those are my ORIGINALS reads. Is there anyone in particular you'd like me to post a read on?

Since you're almost due for a prod...

Has anything changed in your reads?

Has your opinion of TheDominator or Netherspite changed since this post?

[eventi]

VOTE: TheDominator

[eventi]

Sorry for the naked vote, my reasons have been plain.

[eventi]

Ok there is 3 days left and I think we need to lunch someone
Although alcamist is my top scum I'm ok with going with my #2
VOTE: eventi

OMGUS!

[eventi]

Act like an idiot get reactions and it worked amazing
I still need to look at who soft read me
Eventi and alchemist definitely scum and rc and nether are definitely town

When are you going to stop acting like an idiot?

Ok, for sake of argument, why are alchemists and I scum? Why are rc and nether town? Prove it's a gambit.

[eventi]

Act like an idiot get reactions and it worked amazing
I still need to look at who soft read me
Eventi and alchemist definitely scum and rc and nether are definitely town

When are you going to stop acting like an idiot?

Ok, for sake of argument, why are alchemists and I scum? Why are rc and nether town? Prove it's a gambit.

Reactions, reads, if you don't believe me look at their ISOs

No, I want to see you say it - I don't believe you have any reasons

[eventi]

Nether: Null/weak town. 197 makes a really good point. I don't agree with 238, for OMGUS you have to actually vote the person who voted for you. The post he was calling out definitely wasn't "strong" OMGUS. I can see what he's talking about in 321, before people started strongly scum-reading Dominator, he was just lurky and vague, he didn't start acting blatantly stupid until later.

I'm curious what you though the good point in 197 was...

[eventi]

We're actually waiting for you to explain what you learned from your "gambit"

[eventi]

The problem is that he's replying to something I didn't say. It's a straw man argument. I asked why he was defending RC and he said lol because your scum and I said it didn't start with me, meaning he wasn't just defending against my suspicion of RC.

I think he intentionally misrepresented me there, and I'm afraid it worked on you.

[eventi]

... This question doesn't seem to have been answered.

I tried posting from my phone on my trip home from vacation at a rest stop... let's try to not read into what it's obviously a mistake.

RC and Nether are butthurt that I attacked them and TheDevistator is just a clown, but Thesp is calculated and manipulative. When I am lynched and flip town remember how I got here.

What are your reads on RC and Nether as a result of your interactions with them?
Can you quote Thesp being manipulative, or misrepresenting the facts?

The 2nd question wasn't answered. I did not check if the first one was, but suspect it wasn't actually answered either. I feel that starting a push on someone for being manipulative is something that scum might try. It's the type of accusation which has a fair chance to get picked up as a rallying point by town, and is easy to just drop if town doesn't pick up on it.

VOTE: eventi

I get a weak newbtown on Dom, and medium town on Nether. Not really interested in either of those wagons unless it's a deadline choice.

I didn't take your question seriously because anyone who would have been reading would KNOW what my reads on the two of them were. My take was that you were trying to look involved, but were not really paying attention.

The second question deserves a response regardless.

The way Thesp :highfive: s everyone who agrees with him, and always adds me into every decision is what I find manipulative; I've since moved my vote to TheDominator since I don't think there's anyone else looking at Thesp at all.

[eventi]

Two questions:

What will you learn when I flip town?
If you could lynch two people, who would they be? This could break the stalemate.

I'd lynch Dom and Nether.

[eventi]

I'm VT, so go ahead and take the hammer... I actually think when I flip town it'll provide lots of info

[eventi]

VOTE: eventi

This is L-1 (I suppose you forgot?)

All you need is RadiantCowbells or PMysterious - good luck

[eventi]

If Eventi flips scum, my reads tomorrow will be similar to today. If Eventi flips town, I'll be more suspicious of Thesp tomorrow.

I feel like a lot of the people voting me are in agreement with Thesps ONE point against me rather than having their own suspicions.

[eventi]

VOTE: Netherspite since the Dominator train isn't leaving the station.

[eventi]

The problem is that he's replying to something I didn't say. It's a straw man argument. I asked why he was defending RC and he said lol because your scum and I said it didn't start with me, meaning he wasn't just defending against my suspicion of RC.

I think he intentionally misrepresented me there, and I'm afraid it worked on you.

We already sorted that out as misunderstanding and as others understood you like I did it is clearly not intentional misrepresenting but rather your incorrect phrasing.
I don't see why you raise it now as 'intentional misrepresenting' besides attempting to scumpaint me to save your hide.

Don't worry, it was enough to get pistachion's vote. It worked

[eventi]

Nope, actually I didn't

[eventi]

VOTE: eventi

This is L-1 (I suppose you forgot?)

All you need is RadiantCowbells or PMysterious - good luck

Starting to wonder about your reading comprehension skills, Nether

[eventi]

All you (Thesp) need (to lynch me) is RadiantCowbells or PMysterious - good luck

[eventi]

What's PBPA? What are your thoughts on daves and duppin? Their reads seem easy to me.

And thanks for putting in the time on this.

[eventi]

VOTE: TheDominator still my number one scumread.

[eventi]

And I'm dead anyway... I have a fully booked work schedule, then a four hour drive with the family for a weekend getaway, so don't expect much from me for the next 12+ hrs

[eventi]

And just to add to the confusion... I'm starting to think that a new alpha dog is in town, and I see all the same betas struggling to make good.

I love this game!

[eventi]

@eventi

You didn't answer.

I'm not going to. Why are you asking?

[eventi]

LOL.

[eventi]

There's a day and a half left and I just replaced in. I'm taking an eventi hammer as a scum claim at this point.

With 18 hours left, this is rescinded. Looks like everyone set their vote some time ago and don't really care anymore.

We actually have < 5 hours left now, regardless of the timezone.

Thesp/Nether - congrats on getting so many people to vote for me. Thesp with your :hifives: and "not too keen on" and Nether with your head spinning illogical arguments. You've managed to get the apathy and confusion votes locked down.

And congrats to TheDominator for acting too scummy to be scum. Only scum would act too scummy to be scum.

I ask that if you plan on posting at least twice in the next 5 hours, please move your vote to TheDominator. As I was trying to show when I asked who your top two votes are, I believe you have enough votes for TheDominator today whereas my wagon is full of "I guess if it comes to it, I'll vote eventi"

Firestarter - please use lowercase when you talk about me after I'm gone. Branding, dude

And finally, I'd like to hear what you're going to learn / who you're going to look at when I flip town.

[eventi]

You can't be that dense. Persivul found it. Why can't you? It doesn't serve me or the town to restate it here.

What exactly is your case against me anyway? Your initial vote was pretty much just echoing Thesp's reason and siding with RadiantCowbells and since then you've been so tunnel vision on me that you can't let me say good morning without challenging it.

[eventi]

Also - get with the program and move your vote. You can then start appealing to All Alone or whoever else you think you might get on my wagon and move it back to me once you have.

[eventi]

I'll restate the reasons I'm voting you:
1. Your opportunistic vote on

RadiantCowbells

.
2. You OMGUSing me, using shitty arguments I refuted as an excuse.
3. You insisting on your vote despite there are no reasons to keep it anymore.
4. Your reads are basically completely different from mine. I am aware this can happen between townies but combined with all the other...

See? It's not that hard at all if you actually

do

have reasons to keep your vote.

1. Very few people believe this. When you broke it down before I refuted all the points. RadiantCowbells no longer believes it.
2. Again, I laid out the reasons I thought you were scum. You use OMGUS very liberally. Your vote on me was against an enemy of your friend, which I believe they call a chainsaw vote.
3. You may have changed your behavior since I voted, but that doesn't change that you did what you did. One additional reason which I've been very clear on is your faulty logic in your arguments. That has only gotten worse.

I also moved my vote off you LONG ago, hadn't you noticed?

4. I think you're scum and you don't? You think I'm scum and I don't? I guess we do disagree. We agree on RC and apparently Thesp to a degree.

I think you're still knee jerk disagreeing with me. It seems like you're not really paying attention.

And why don't you move your vote to TheDominator? As I said you can take the hammer if you manage to convince All Alone to move his...

[eventi]

Now I'm getting really suspicious - Have you not realized that I haven't had my vote on you for the past week? Are you reading the thread? That seems like something really big to have missed.

[eventi]

We actually have < 5 hours left now, regardless of the timezone.

Per mod's last post 447 we have over 15 hours.

Oh weird - I could swear I saw 14 hrs last night, and 5 just before I made my post... my bad.

[eventi]

3. You may have changed your behavior since I voted, but that doesn't change that you did what you did. One additional reason which I've been very clear on is your faulty logic in your arguments. That has only gotten worse.

I also moved my vote off you LONG ago, hadn't you noticed?

What did I do? Scumhunting? Defending townie from your accusations? It's called playing for my wincon. What's wrong with that?

Well, you changed your vote - another exampe of your opportunistic behavior.

Persivul

came in and kind of turned the game course like he did in the game I was modding. You used that opportunity and started 'scumreading' the player he is attacking to save your hide.
Survivalistic + opportunistic in the single vote.

I've hardly said anything since Persivul came in, and I don't care about the game you were modding. I moved my vote

back

to TheDominator (I was on you for 24hrs since TheDominator wasn't moving)

And I'm on the gallows right now, of course I'm survivalistic. I'm town, and this will be a mislynch which is bad for town. You can hardly blame me for that.

And once again, in typical Netherspite style, you're distracting from the point of my argument. You said I won't move my vote, but it isn't on you, so your point #3 is invalid.

[eventi]

3. You may have changed your behavior since I voted, but that doesn't change that you did what you did. One additional reason which I've been very clear on is your faulty logic in your arguments. That has only gotten worse.

I also moved my vote off you LONG ago, hadn't you noticed?

What did I do? Scumhunting? Defending townie from your accusations? It's called playing for my wincon. What's wrong with that?

Well, you changed your vote - another exampe of your opportunistic behavior.

Persivul

came in and kind of turned the game course like he did in the game I was modding. You used that opportunity and started 'scumreading' the player he is attacking to save your hide.
Survivalistic + opportunistic in the single vote.

I've hardly said anything since Persivul came in, and I don't care about the game you were modding. I moved my vote

back

to TheDominator (I was on you for 24hrs since TheDominator wasn't moving)

And I'm on the gallows right now, of course I'm survivalistic. I'm town, and this will be a mislynch which is bad for town. You can hardly blame me for that.

And once again, in typical Netherspite style, you're distracting from the point of my argument. You said I won't move my vote, but it isn't on you, so your point #3 is invalid.

[eventi]

And yes, I am aware that you were 'scumreading' him before but previously you thought that I'm an easier lynch and voted me.
As soon as his wagon gained some momentum you instantly switched back.

Everyone moved off Dom's wagon because it had no momentum, so of course we should move onto it once it does.

[eventi]

Alch and Fire won't move to me - I suggest they both move into Dominator, Nether lynch isn't likely to happen at all

[eventi]

@Persivul

We can argue for years about whether it was opportunistic or not.
For me, it was. Making a case to have an excuse for your opportunistic vote does not make it any less opportunistic.
Under opportunistic I understand a vote on a player who is most likely to get lynched.

So what's the threshold? Who on my train should move off, since it's the most popular train? Since there's no valid reason to be on the most popular train, I suggest the last three to join mine should move their vote elsewhere

This is a statement that will come back and bite you in the ass for the rest of the game. Are you sure you want to make it?

@eventi

Yeah, you hardly said anything yet you decided to opportunistically move your vote back to a wagon which is going to gain momentum.
Also, caring much about your own survival as town is stupid. You can lose even if you survive. You can win even if you don't survive. Your goal is make town catching the scum. If your flip will help that - you should be fine with your lynch.
I am always fine with my lynch if it contributes important information to the town. I was stating it since my first game here and I don't care if someone does not like it. I am still insisting that it's true.
Thus, you being survivalistic is a scumtell.

That's just silly.

[eventi]

@Persivul

We can argue for years about whether it was opportunistic or not.
For me, it was. Making a case to have an excuse for your opportunistic vote does not make it any less opportunistic.
Under opportunistic I understand a vote on a player who is most likely to get lynched.

So what's the threshold? Who on my train should move off, since it's the most popular train? Since there's no valid reason to be on the most popular train, I suggest the last three to join mine should move their vote elsewhere

This is a statement that will come back and bite you in the ass for the rest of the game. Are you sure you want to make it?

Oh snap, good point, how did I miss that?

I can't let you have all the fun

[eventi]

I'd prefer my own lynch over

TheDominator37

because it will provide more information to the town + our personality clash with

eventi

will stop negatively affecting town overall performance.

The only way this makes sense is if you think we're TvT

[eventi]

eventi, do you read nether as scummy, or stubborn town?

IDK man, it's a tough call. I think his persistent use of logical fallacies in our arguments is scummy, but I don't know if he's doing it intentionally. Some people are just illogical.

If he's town he's had his sights on me for so long he can't see anything else going on unless it relates to me. He doesn't even think TheDominator is scummy, and that's troubling to say the least.

See how he says that if there's scum on my wagon they're bussing? It's in defense of his weird position that there's no such thing as a popular vote that's not opportunistic. He can't even consider me town for sake of argument, and that's clouding his judgement a lot.

He even goes as far as saying his OWN vote on me was scummy instead of backing down from his illogical premise.

I don't know man, I wish I did.

[eventi]

My mistake- @nether, I thought duppin's vote that persivul quoted was yours.

[eventi]

IDK man, it's a tough call. I think his persistent use of logical fallacies in our arguments is scummy, but I don't know if he's doing it intentionally. Some people are just illogical.

Me being illogical and using logical fallacies is your opinion, it's subjective and can be wrong.
In my opinion it's you who is illogical.

Logic is most definitely not subjective. When you argue "A therefore B" and I say "A is false" you follow with, "Yeah, but C" which doesn't support your point. That's not subjective, it's a logical fallacy.

[eventi]

Aw man... I said before. I'm VT. I'll try and enjoy the rest of my vacation. Good luck with these fools.

[eventi]

Nah, I can't keep lying. I'm a goon. It was my first time, and I failed miserably. Good job, Nether. You were the only one to see through me.

[eventi]

Sorry I let you down Thesp

[eventi]

I noticed the lack of response to questions.

I should have say there and done nothing like you did

[eventi]

Nah, I can't keep lying. I'm a goon. It was my first time, and I failed miserably. Good job, Nether. You were the only one to see through me.

Thanks for telling it before the flip.
I appreciate it.
I was actually considering switching to someone else for a moment or so.
You did well for your first time.

You're a lot smarter than me, I never stood a chance

[eventi]

Speaking of the other scum...
I am actually tentative about the

Persivul

now. Yes he is behaving similarly to the other scumgame where he replaced in. However, outright defending the partner is weird scum move. Only if he thought he can turn it. Idk, need to think more.

By all means, don't start now

[eventi]

Townies - I don't think he's smart enough to act this dumb. I finally have my read.

[eventi]

eventi - you bastard (assuming you're telling the truth)! Well done though, and I still don't think nether's case was good.

Thank YOU. That was quite a fun ride. His case was demonstrably crap.

[eventi]

And off my mafia brothers will please do me a solid and DON'T kill Nether tonight... I don't think I can handle being in the dead thread with him alone.

[eventi]

You guys know any good jokes?

[eventi]

Remember this post everyone. You've found the VI

[eventi]

Sorry that should have quoted 606

[eventi]

I'm liking Nether less and less as time goes on for all this emphasis on information from lynches.

Sadly, he's proven town in twilight

[eventi]

Sorry that should have quoted 606

Well I still caught you. May be I'm not that good in explaining things but I was right.

LOL. Can't wait

[eventi]

Gg guys.