Mini 1709: Radjarok: Game over!

[Hopkirk]

Funnily enough i didn't notice my pms until i actually got to the queue thread as i was wondering if the game was almost full. Filling and starting took a lot less time than the last mini normal i played.

Vote: Hopkirk

. He knows why.

This made me feel bad and i looked through your completed games because i thought i'd forgotten your name (i only recognize klingon). Then i saw...

The obvious reason is because he hasn't confirmed yet.
VOTE: Hopkirk
Wooo, easy lynch!

Anyway, that led me to think that it was because i hadn't confirmed yet and that i'm not a terrible person, that was good news.

That's up to Hopkirk.

Then i looked back and saw this and i felt sad again. Is it just that i haven't confirmed, or is there some other reason you're hiding?

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Haschel funny hat

My hat is better. True, you didn't see it when you posted, but it's the principle of the thing.
VOTE: Hexcat

[Hopkirk]

I mean VOTE: Texcat, got the wrong key pressed there.

[Hopkirk]

Then i looked back and saw this and i felt sad again. Is it just that i haven't confirmed, or is there some other reason you're hiding?

I do not care about whether people confirm quickly or not. And I'm not hiding anything.

Let me put this another way then: Am i forgetting a game we've played together? I know i haven't seen that avatar at least.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Haschel

No matter what Hopkirk explicitly said or merely implied, I asked you for an explanation and you are refusing to give us one? Why?

Because as soon as I give an explanation then Hopkirk's actions moving forward will be affected by that, and I wanted to see how things played out.

At any rate, I've seen enough. Hopkirk knew full well that we were in the Random Vote Stage of the game. Everybody knew that. Accountant even said it was a random vote.

Unvote: Hopkirk

Now the question is do we focus on the players who allowed a wagon to get to L-2 less than a day-and-a-half into the game? Or the players who ignored all of this?

Let's try the latter.

Vote: SamX

I assumed you chose to vote for me as we've played a game together that I've now forgotten. Fine to do in rvs, but i don't understand why you refuse to say if we have played before.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: stoz

Link is an overrated game series. :}

Kind of strange to see random vote on page two with no comments on what happened before it. Then again, I don’t think gob has played before, probably a case of not knowing what to do to get things started rather than trying to stop things starting.

VOTE: gob For being

That Guy

Darn you jigglypuff....

I will be active in this game, school started for me and i have lots of free time when im in my classes.

This sounds pretty weird as gob says he can be active but makes no comments on the game.
The next post, from trivium, is similar to gob’s first, another random (possibly omgus but still counts as randomy) vote. This isn’t from a first game player, and comes slightly later, making it look slightly more suspicious, though not much exactly.

How about a little RQS to get the game rolling. Here's mine-
How much are you planning on posting throughout the game?
I am fairly active in my games. Like all the time.

Trivium also posts this. I like random qs, since it doesn’t look like much is happening (town points for Haschel for trying to start the game) with rvs, but this is a pretty bad question. The only question being “when are you active” tells us nothing. This isn’t an attempt at making content, rather trying to just look like it (or even a lazy scum method of trying to find good kill picks later), and it’s the second of that kind of post in a row. So…
UNVOTE: Texcat
VOTE: Trivium
Also since I might as well answer his question: I’m not at uni atm so I should be able to come on several times a day, timezone is gmt.

[Hopkirk]

Actually Desew also did the same as gob, the only difference being an earlier random vote, and did it when there was more he could comment on. @Desew: What do you think of the Hash/Hop stuff?

Also @Hashel: Did you pick sam at random from people who ignored it, or for a specific reason?

[Hopkirk]

[quote="

How about a little RQS to get the game rolling. Here's mine-
How much are you planning on posting throughout the game?
I am fairly active in my games. Like all the time.

Trivium also posts this. I like random qs, since it doesn’t look like much is happening (town points for Haschel for trying to start the game) with rvs, but this is a pretty bad question. The only question being “when are you active” tells us nothing. This isn’t an attempt at making content, rather trying to just look like it (or even a lazy scum method of trying to find good kill picks later), and it’s the second of that kind of post in a row. So…
UNVOTE: Texcat
VOTE: Trivium
Also since I might as well answer his question: I’m not at uni atm so I should be able to come on several times a day, timezone is gmt."

I wanted to know how much people are planning on posting so that anyone who doesn't post very often doesn't get lynched for lurking with reason. I also just wanted to get a taste of what the dynamics of the game will be like.[/quote]

I've quoted it like this, instead of fixing my tags, so that it's clearer who said what.
My question is: Why was that your only question?

@Hopkrik

Sorry i havent been too active today as i was scuba-diving.

Anyway, i didnt comment much on the game because during the time of that post it was RVS, and i believe we were waiting for others to have their first post.

So we're getting the ball rolling i see, if you want me to say something about the game, then i will mention the role list.
Isnt this the role list where the serial killer has a 50% chance of coming into play? that means we have 2KP correct? Or am i confused here?

"if you want me to say something about the game, then i will mention the role list. "
I want you to say something? That sounds like you don't want to find scum.
Mentioning role list: Not really game related.

Oh jeez, now that we're out of RVS (as far as I'm aware), I should unvote stoz in case a huuuge wagon suddenly appears on him.


UNVOTE: Stoz

This sounds strange too. If you acknowledge we're out of RVS, then you should have reads. If you aren't voting (or even making content) then that post makes no sense.

[Hopkirk]

Anything in particular you want me to do?

anything really. maybe put down the most serious vote you can?

I can do that.


VOTE: Texcat


Feels as if he's making things up to give a reason to vote.

This interaction sounds like it could be scum helping another (newer) scum by telling them what to do.

[Hopkirk]

Actually, scratch that, Texcat's right.

Then i looked back and saw this and i felt sad again. Is it just that i haven't confirmed, or is there some other reason you're hiding?

UNVOTE:

I sort of like this, going back and admitting to a mistake. On the other hand, easily fakeable.
I thought for a second it could be to avoid making another vote, but that doesn't really help in the long term. Nonetheless, might as well ask: any scumreads?

Alright thank you Dessew.

Anyway, i have 100% with VeeGee on this, vijay2's posts seem to be pulled out of his ass or half-assed. With that said however, i

do not

think he is scum at this time (and i doubt VeeGee thinks that either), his posts arent exactly ones that would slide under the radar.
Though i really wish he would actually give more of a shit here.

So you think he's got a strange tone but he's town?

[Hopkirk]

"if you want me to say something about the game, then i will mention the role list. "
I want you to say something? That sounds like you don't want to find scum.
Mentioning role list: Not really game related.

It was more of a question, lmao chill.

So you think he's got a strange tone but he's town?

Exactly. I think

because

of his tone he is looking towny to me.

Is there anyone who you think looks like scum then?

[Hopkirk]

What's up with you agreeing with my opinion so strongly out of nowhere?

Are you talking to me? I don't see what you're referring to.

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: UNVOTE:

Looks like the Scums are Gob, VeeGee, and Vijay2vasandani.

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Vijay2vasandani

I like this since these were the 3 people i was/am scumreading at the moment.
Why did you pick vijay of those three?

Klingoncelt is rubbing me the wrong way at the moment, what with a lack of content followed up by a naked vote. Klingon, care to justify?

I don't make large posts.

Gob comes in out of nowhere and makes a weak reads list partially based on post counts. On page 4.

And as Hopkirk pointed out, the exchange between VeeGee and Vijay looks like 2 Scums with no Daychat.

To confirm: Last time i played with klingon she didn't make large posts as (innocent child) town.

[Hopkirk]

I like Accountant. Tone sounds town, actually doing stuff, nothing really strikes me as off.

Gob:

8. vijay2vasandani - Though inactive he is definitely giving me the "i really wish i werent here right now" vibe. To me it seems like he is just forcing himself to play yet another game of mafia.

I'm not getting this vibe at all. Vijay has been acting fairly aggressive so far, calling for votes on Haschel and then turning around and voting someone else. I think he's scummy, specifically because he seems eager to kickstart bandwagons, which became clear after the (IMO) silly texcat wagon.

Klingoncelt is rubbing me the wrong way at the moment, what with a lack of content followed up by a naked vote. Klingon, care to justify?

Right now I think the best option is to vote either SamX or Vijay. Given that SamX is an easy wagon at any time due to inactivity I would rather vote Vijay.

Townreads: Haschel, gob, stoz. Would be very interested in seeing Haschel's reads list.

Will do a roster run once I get access to a computer.

Could you explain the gob townread?

Vijay, why do you think texcat is a possible vote? I still don't like the vibes he's giving off, he seems to be deflecting more than anything after calling for "moar votes" twice.

Huh? That wasn't me calling for moar votes.

"He" refers to Vijay.

SamX is waffling, there's definitely enough content to slap at least a vote down somewhere. A vote is a townie's best weapon during the day and he's choosing not to use it.

I'd like to hear some solid content from Sam especially given his low activity earlier. What makes me even more suspicious is the fact that he waffled AFTER receiving pressure for being quiet.

Vijay, can I ask you to lay out a full case against VeeGee, preferably with quotes? You seem invested in attacking him. I think we can get a lot of stuff out of Vee, but its been short snippets so far. Would be great if you could lay everything out in the open and we'll see what we can get. This is especially useful because a lot of people have strong reads on you.

vijay...why are you flying to Boston?

I've caught up on the game and have no reads of significance. Could be in part due to fatigue. Past my bedtime.

Not in RVS anymore though so....

UNVOTE:

Note: this stinks of active lurking.

You mention havingfitz and samx as lurking, how are these really different to trivium and dessew?

[Hopkirk]

A specific reason.

As for Trivium's question, I agree with Hopkirk that it is a pointless question and have no intention of answering it.

I'd like to know what the specific reason is.

For now I will UNVOTE: and leave it like that until I have a strong read, and here's 2 reasons why.
1. We're 6 pages in. I haven't played enough Mafia to be a veteran, but I've played 2 rounds in my entire life, and I think we're out of RVS...? (Please tell me if I'm wrong)

2. I find that 2 of these 6 pages are a conversation between Hopkirk and Haschel about some game they've played in or something, and the first 2 are RVS and commenting on people's existence and avatars. There are 2 pages of weak reads or reads that don't really give content and are being posted for the sake of keeping face by staying active in the discussions (no offense). I can't come up with a read with this but I will try to come up with quality reasons for whomever I choose to vote, and/or whomever I choose to not.

You say that there isn't really anything for you to comment on (which i disagree with) because nothing has happened. You are not trying to make anything happen contentwise. Could you explain this?

[Hopkirk]

Nope. Might be scum though.

He literally just said he does not know why Haschel. Dunno why you're being so cagey over a random vote.

He didn't literally say that, he said that he didn't recognize my avatar and that he felt sad.

Okayyyy. Moar votes on this guy please.

I don't like the tone of these posts, however.

Are you saying that I should either, A: Keep voting texcat, even though I had no reason to, or B: Vote someone random?


I'm not doing either.

Could you clarify your read on Vijay? It sounds like he's a scumread of yours, but you aren't voting him and you specified you weren't fosing him.

[Hopkirk]

Hmm interesting that I'm supposedly inactive. Pretty sure that before I went to bed, I had more posts than gob

Edit: yeah he knows how many posts I have.

It's not odd to take a mod's votecount as right.

Trivium is also voting himself.

Also flying back to Boston today, so I'll post again once I get back. Unless I have time during a layover

You start of by saying you can't be inactive because you have more posts, then there's no opinions- only spectating- in the rest of the post.

Oh also, be for I go, I should mention that gob says that VeeGee is scum in his reads post. I don't know if his vote is there though, which could be an issue.

Also after I asked for a serious vote, VeeGee picks texcat, retracts it and then leaves it at that. Stop doing the bare minimum scum and at least look like you're scumhunting.

I'm good with texcat and VeeGee votes.

Quoting this partially for the next point, and partially because "Stop doing the bare minimum scum and at least look like you're scumhunting." also sounds like mentoring (i don't think this is the right word but i can't be bothered checking the wiki). Generally wide statement like this are aimed at partners.

Below are all my posts concerning VeeGee (in spoiler)

Spoiler: VeeGee

Hallos.
VOTE: stoz
For remembering that game






Also OMGUS.

The answer to your question: Not sure, really. I'm usually sorta active.

....but, they could also lie about not being active, so they CAN lurk unnoticed.

Oh jeez, now that we're out of RVS (as far as I'm aware), I should unvote stoz in case a huuuge wagon suddenly appears on him.


UNVOTE: Stoz

okay. you should probably also do something about this though. (lol maybe your third post was about yourself?)

Oh also, be for I go, I should mention that gob says that VeeGee is scum in his reads post. I don't know if his vote is there though, which could be an issue.

Also after I asked for a serious vote, VeeGee picks texcat, retracts it and then leaves it at that. Stop doing the bare minimum scum and at least look like you're scumhunting.

I'm good with texcat and VeeGee votes.

Are you saying that I should either, A: Keep voting texcat, even though I had no reason to, or B: Vote someone random?


I'm not doing either.

No, I'm saying that a vote is the only thing townies have during the day to win. You're not using it, which is a waste of town's populationalready minimal resources. Get some reads and.put a vote down.

Also saying something feels off and then not voting/acting on it is a scummy. Town needs to actively scumhunt, not just sit around wasting time.

Stoz is the right about VeeGee

Now, the summary on my thoughts regarding VeeGee has to do with the fact that he posted a random vote, says he's usually active, then says that since we're out of RVS he should unvote. There's a huge problem with this. What is it, you ask? He isn't doing anything. The entire town needs to work together towards lynching scum. How is unvoting a random vote and then

NOT DOING ANYTHING WITH YOUR VOTE AFTERWARD

helping us. That's my main issue.

Making matters worse is the fact that after I point out that he's not scumhunting ("you should probably do something about this"), he votes the guy i'm voting (totally fine, think he might be scum), and then unvotes (also fine, since he can have his own opinion). But once again, the same issue pops up. What does he do after he unvotes? Nothing. Sure he talks and fluffs, but where the fuck is his vote. Like i said in 124 "a vote is the only thing townies have during the day to win. You're not using it, which is a waste of town's populationalready minimal resources. Get some reads and.put a vote down" (wow that autocorrected population wtf). What's even worse is that he seems to have a scumread (or at least hints that he finds scummy things) but does not vote to back it up.

Now hush up Accountant and vote him already.

SamX and Havingfitz are guilty of the same thing. Kinda scummy, at best bad-for-town. Trivium is still voting himself

You seem to have a big scumread on veegee. You mention sam and having as an afterthought as "guilty of the same thing". Why are you only pressuring veegee instead of the other two too?

[Hopkirk]

Playerlist:

1. VeeGee - I think forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?p=7168496#p7168496 says enough for VeeGee, he is obviously trying to appear as a town, asking what he should do, not wanting to step on any toes.
2. Haschel Cedricson - Probably my top town, he seems to be going strong and following on his own reads, unlike VeeGee who is merely putting pressure on an overall quiet, inactive player.
[note] im not saying putting pressure on quiet players is bad, but as i stated before i think vijay is town (for now) however, i still beg for vijay to be active.
3. Klingoncelt - 3 posts
4. Hopkirk - Town at this point. Sure he is acting really stupid on some things, like jumping on me for a RV page 2 but that shows he has good intentions to me.
5. stoz - Another person looking fine, his last post definitely implies he is trying to get the ball rolling. Town or not. Nothing he has said has been particular to either side.
6. SamX - 2 posts
7. gob - Me ;0
8. vijay2vasandani - Though inactive he is definitely giving me the "i really wish i werent here right now" vibe. To me it seems like he is just forcing himself to play yet another game of mafia.
9. texcat - 4 posts
10. Trivium - Yes, probably my first scum read, he is so obviously trying to glide under the radar at this time, are you going to post something?
11. Accountant - Literally bare-bones. They are attempting to act like they're in the game and contributing but lets be real here, she isnt.
12. havingfitz - 1 post, apparently gone on weekends.
13. Dessew - He answered my questions. So i guess thats cool.

-----

These are incredibly early leads, but i know they are going to point us in the direction of scum.

Lack of vote while having scumreads is weird. Maybe not voting as doesn't really belive in reads?

1.) Is this a veegee scumread (if you say he's faking what he's doing)?
2.) Agree with this.
4.) This is changing my words.
11.) Same as 1, this sounds like a scumread but he doesn't say it. Leaving wiggle room for when opinion start flying maybe.

10.) This is the main thing i wanted to note. Gob's only stated scumread is for "flying under the radar". Over half of gob's reads are "only has x posts so can't tell". Same reason for scumread as null reads.
Generally his read list really just sounds like narration rather than actually comment/opinions. His later posts are exclusivley defending the reads instead of expanding (despite the last line equalling planned expansion).
So...
UNVOTE: Trivium
VOTE: Gob

[Hopkirk]

I want to see more from fitz and dessew. Dessew’s last two posts have nothing.

Non game related musings/things i found funny but didn't want to include in serious posts:
Why are there so many vibrating pokemon in this game? Seeing Veegee post after Gob made me physically laugh.
143-5 were also pretty funny. "I had the scum caught" “but you quickhammered town” “yes, but I knew who was scum”.
Veegee and Vijay sound really similar (as both can be pronounced vj) out loud. This got me a bit confused while writing posts.

[Hopkirk]

Narration or not my reads are a contribution. They

were

my insight on the game at the time. If you dont understand this then i really worry for your metal state.

So you're only going to respond to one of the things i said (and not a direct response) and give ad hominem?

[Hopkirk]

Narration or not my reads are a contribution. They

were

my insight on the game at the time. If you dont understand this then i really worry for your metal state.

So you're only going to respond to one of the things i said (and not a direct response) and give ad hominem?

Sorry i just saw low insults about a newbie game that was terrible to even be in. if you want to actually make good conversation then maybe i'll take you semi-seriously.

I said that sounded funny, sorry if it insulted you, but that was completely unrelated to my read (i only mentioned that game in a section i specificly said was not game related). You're avoiding what i'm asking.

[Hopkirk]

gob, do you believe VeeGee is scum or not?

Yes, i do believe he is scum, at this point i believe he noticed that he had fucked up so he decided to go all out and vote me, trying to play it off as just a bad play. Not to mention all the other scummy shit he has done.

So he's your top scumread and you believe he's scum but you're not voting him.
Possibilities
Gob scum + Veegee not = doesn't make sense not to vote. Unlikely.
Gob town + veegee either scum or town = I don't see why town wouldn't vote a scumread really. Can you provide your reason for this gob?
Gob scum + Veegee scum = Doesn't want to bus partner. This seems quite possible given i scumread both of them.

Narration or not my reads are a contribution. They

were

my insight on the game at the time. If you dont understand this then i really worry for your metal state.

So you're only going to respond to one of the things i said (and not a direct response) and give ad hominem?

Sorry i just saw low insults about a newbie game that was terrible to even be in. if you want to actually make good conversation then maybe i'll take you semi-seriously.

I said that sounded funny, sorry if it insulted you, but that was completely unrelated to my read (i only mentioned that game in a section i specificly said was not game related). You're avoiding what i'm asking.

Im sorry, am i missing something here, ive replied to almost every serious accusation you've thrown at me. Say it again or link the post. Im failing to see it, maybe im just really stupid....

VOTE: Gob


Been wanting to, no idea why I didn't earlier.

In 151, you didn't respond to any points made there.

[Hopkirk]

Something else I wanted to look at is Dessew.
13= RVS vote.
53= Responds to Q, no comments on game.
79= Laughs at a style of writing, doesn’t answer question about current impressions claiming it’s too soon to tell, answers question about setup (in a closed game so meaningless)
138= Defends Gob, Talks about quote tags.
139= Quote tags.
160= Repeats than someone wanted to be replaced.
161= Votes and says case later. Votes someone he hasn’t mentioned yet.
182= Explains vote is because of fence sitting/not saying much.
190= Refuses to join main conversation, Defends Gob, Defends Vijay.

I tried to summarise what he’s done without bias. Conclusions on that follow:

Refuses to answers 2 requests to comment on things going on in thread/ actively avoids joining conversations on main things going on.
One serious vote with the reason “he’s fence sitting” despite the fact the same applies to Dessew much more (see above point for example).
Other than the vote, no content. Vote is weak, no scumhunting, no questions.
Mentioning things like setup/quote tags/replacement requests instead of content is active lurking. No real contribution to the game. Mafia generally like to find things to talk about that look like they’re actually saying something when they aren’t.

Defends my scum reads means possible associations (minor/not really too relevant point).
While I wait for gob’s responses…
UNVOTE: Gob
VOTE: Dessew

[Hopkirk]

Not really sure how to quote 225 in full without messing tags up (or spending a long time) so quoting bit by bit.

Apparently we have a set of players who registered in the last few months & unfortunately not all of them managed to learn how setups work on this site, how to use BBCode & how to communicate with the mod. 79, 138 & 160 were thus needed.

Doesn’t change the fact that you have pretty much no other content.

That's an entire case. In the example I gave, he spends three rows explaining nothing in a non-obvious way.

Quoting for later part of this post.

You clearly haven't read my case. It's fabulous, & it isn't long, so you really should.

Also quoting for later (next thing)

If there are any questions I haven't answered & they're relevant, you can quote them.

Irrelevant as the questions were time specific. This is avoiding what I’m saying. You said you didn’t want to comment on things going on: That is sitting on the fence.

The only problem with this, is that whenever I post fluff, it's clear, I'm posting fluff. That's the point of the stoz wagon, that he's doing the opposite, he's fluffing, but it's made to look like content.

Reading your posts initially, it looked like you were actually saying something, so I see the same from you.
Could you give reasons for your gob townread?

[Hopkirk]

I really should have previewed that one. Some of my comments are in the big quote box.
@Hasschel, can you now explain the reasoning you wanted to keep secret from earlier?
@Klingon: We had 10 (now 9) days left in the day. I don't see any problem with putting pressure on other potential scum. Also applies to accountant saying about why split the vote. IF we're wrong D1 we have leads d2, if we're right d1, we have ideas for associations d2.

[Hopkirk]

Gob in 194 (and from then on) ignores my criticisms. Clearly he’s not going to respond without my vote on him. Lets see if i can get the qs answered now.
UNVOTE: Dessew
VOTE: Gob

My reason is that i dont vote. Just how i go bro.

Then how do you expect to catch scum?

OMGUS so hard

Leaving aside the fact that it wasn't an omgus, accountant said she had a scumread on you first...

[Hopkirk]

Dessew
“I have a case you refuse to comment on.”
I commented upon it. You did what you accused stoz of doing twice. If you’re serious then you should think you’re scum.
“Then your bitching about those questions is irrelevant, too, I presume. I didn't comment because there wasn't anything to comment on.”
Everyone else in the game was discussing things/taking stances. Not doing that is the definition of fence sitting.

@Samx: “I think Dessew is leaning town for me. He gives constructive criticism”: Why do you think helpful fluff is town behaviour? Hiding low content with it is a favoured tactic of scum.

[Hopkirk]

Sorry about the formatting, a bit busy. Doesn't affect the content though.

Gob
“BTW HopKrirk, im not ignoring your criticisms in the slightest, they are just being asked by others as well, so when i answer them i dont feel the need to repeat myself.”
If I don’t think my questions have been answered then I’m not unvoting.

(Gob) 242: This is just weird. He goes through several of klingon’s posts, and says literally nothing positive. He ends with
“In the end i believe Klingoncelt is Town. He has done enough to put himself in the lime-light but he is really doing nothing.”.
This does not sound like a reason for a townread.
Then look at 256.
“texcat: scum read, if we look at posts like #198 it shows her trying to twist my words. She has never crossed paths with anyone besides me or accountant really (outside of RVS)”
Why did he make a case for a townread instead of a scumread that he claimed to have? Why not even mention the scumread until asked?
“but if you were town you would have straight up stated in the clear that "gob is mafia" not be wishy washy about it.”
“Because mafia love to fence sit. This is Mafia 101 come on dude.”
This is a misrep.

[Hopkirk]

Sorry about the formatting, a bit busy. Doesn't affect the content though.

Gob
“BTW HopKrirk, im not ignoring your criticisms in the slightest, they are just being asked by others as well, so when i answer them i dont feel the need to repeat myself.”
If I don’t think my questions have been answered then I’m not unvoting.

(Gob) 242: This is just weird. He goes through several of klingon’s posts, and says literally nothing positive. He ends with
“In the end i believe Klingoncelt is Town. He has done enough to put himself in the lime-light but he is really doing nothing.”.
This does not sound like a reason for a townread.
Then look at 256.
“texcat: scum read, if we look at posts like #198 it shows her trying to twist my words. She has never crossed paths with anyone besides me or accountant really (outside of RVS)”
Why did he make a case for a townread instead of a scumread that he claimed to have? Why not even mention the scumread until asked?
“but if you were town you would have straight up stated in the clear that "gob is mafia" not be wishy washy about it.”
“Because mafia love to fence sit. This is Mafia 101 come on dude.”
This is a misrep.

well yes that is some terrible formatting.

I am guessing you are seeing something i dont see for kling since his town has been so blatant in his dickish-ness.
You cannot deny that fact.
Add that onto the other things i said and its kinda clear he is VT not giving a shit.

Firstly still have qs.
Secondly, most of your post is implying I think Klingon is scum. I’ve said I think she’s town, instead of referencing what I actually said- about your read looking inconsistent with your reasoning, you try and misrepresent me.
Wanted to quote this from accountant as seeing it again, it doesn’t make sense.
“Gob is vanilla townie : 0%
Gob is power role : 5% given his known meta for acting somewhat unbalanced as a PR
Gob is a clueless town member: 40%
Gob is scum: 60%”
If there’s a 40% chance Gob is “clueless town” then why doesn’t VT+PR add up to 40? The only alternative i can see that explains the 5 doesn't match with 60-40

Want to see a few posts from hermit before anyone makes a hammer today. I was a bit suspicious of his predecessor.
I also want to reread Vijay, and have a look at Stoz/Dessew. A bit busy at the moment.

[Hopkirk]

Nothing really happened to change my opinions over the last couple of pages. Still waiting on Gob responding, Hermit talking (what did we expect from a hermit) and time to do some rereading i want to do.

[Hopkirk]

Sorry, totally missed Wanderer-nl's posts, I only saw Havingfitz at the top of the "new posts since you started typing" page.

No one should be surprised that Wanderer finds gob scum, it is the only competing wagon to the one on VeeGee / herself.

As I observed at the end of my last game, in both games I have played 3 people replaced out and 2 of those were scum. Now I know that isn't a big sample size, but also note that one of the scum that replaced out in my last game was VeeGee himself, and here we are all over again. I'll still happily lynch Wanderer, and a gob town flip would only further cement that.

Could you explain what you mean by a "a gob town flip would only further cement that."

@Gob: Points made in 151 and 271 and 308. I haven’t seen any response to them that reduces my scumread.
@Accountant: What are you using Bayes for there?
I’m going to go through a few iso rereads, starting with accountant.

[Hopkirk]

Early stuff nullish. In retrospect, not really sure why I thought she looked town here.
Initial vote on veegee (135) is based on Vijay’s post- kind of strange accountant went from 116 is null/could be town to 116 is scummy as hell. Could show lack of original scumhunting.
167- Scumread on vijay for vijay’s position on veegee despite the fact accountant sheeped that position is pretty strange/confusing if from town.
203- Claims to have scumread on Dessew yet doesn’t like me voting him. The Dessew read also comes despite 167 also saying she wanted to see more of Dessew, then nothing to really justify the “Dessew is one of my two strongest scumreads”. Also describing Gob’s reads as clear doesn’t sound right to me. Here accountant also gives a scumread on Gob.
205- “convince me to vote Gob” at veegee. Possibly didn’t expect veegee wagon to grow so fast/wants to leave.
212- This isn’t as bad as it’s been made out, I don’t like quickhammers, and I like using the day so I can see where she’s coming from. On the other hand, the “we need to lynch veegee” sounds like she’s made her mind up, despite trying to give a different impression.
244- Why is this a Gob case instead of a veegee case? This doesn’t seem to match with her prior momentum. I don’t see how Gob’s reads had strong opinions (strawman pros?). The actual numbers (using numbers) don’t really strike me as bad though.
249- Also could be encouraging Veegee again. On the other hand I don’t see this as a pairing or Accountant would have her vote on Gob.
262- Sounds rather image conscious.
294- “I've received many reasons to leave the VeeGee lynch, including the presence of more popular targets like Dessew or gob.” She could have left the Veegee wagon quite easily which makes me think they aren’t together. Claiming that Dessew is a more popular wagon on the other hand is pretty weird.
379- “I feel ready to switch to a gob lynch now since Wanderer is generating content and nobody seems willing to push on him. He's still my strongest scumread, however, and unless something changes I will probably vote him again tomorrow.” Given Wanderer has more votes on him than anyone else this makes 0 sense. It also sounds like accountant wants to make a push on a weak player as she doesn’t want to push on Wanderer. I don’t see why she didn’t make a case on her top scum again.
382- I don’t see how you really have an alignment read on prod dodge, prod dodge, get replaced. You also didn’t really mention trivium (much) earlier.

I’d like to see Accountant’s scumcase on veegee in the same way as the one you made on Gob.
Also who do you see as veegee’s partners?

Current conclusion: I could see Accountant as scum, need to read a few more slots though (after dinner).

(@Gob: I have seen your post but not read it yet as i want to post this whole thing first)

[Hopkirk]

151- Stating reads lists are bad can be done by the mafia if they come under fire for them. Can you explain the mindset behind these reads? Just disassociating yourself from them doesn’t stop them being a (major/ my biggest come to think of it) reason for my scumread on you. What i really want to see is what your thought process was.
271- I wasn’t asking about fence-sitting, I was asking about how your conclusion was reached as up until then it sounded like a scumread (based on tone). How does fence sitting relate to this- do you mean your read changed or something?
308- It was only a few spaces missing really. Can you explain if anything changed on rereading said posts?

[Hopkirk]

Rereading Texcat- only reasons for Gob scum are:
“I'm seeing a lot of activity from Gob that looks like activity for its own sake, posting just to be posting. And his reads list is basically a who has posted and who hasn't list. Very little about the quality of the posts.”
“But that combined with Gob making a lot of posts that were mostly without content. It's like he wants to be considered town because he posts a lot, without considering the quality of the posts.”
Which equates to Gob not posting any content- and I see less content from Texcat actually (not to say I think Gob is town, I have a different reason for the scumread). Could you expand a little bit on the Gob vote and other reads?

[Hopkirk]

151- got bored, wanted to move the game forward

271-On accountant? yes my read changed.

308- im still failing to see a question i havent answered yet.

151- Obviously you didn't just make reads with dice. I don't see the town logic behind the reads you made here.
271/308- To be clear: What's your read of Klingon now, and how did you get a result of town from your case?

[Hopkirk]

@Hopkirk: I checked back to see what I missed but it turns out that havingfitz asked her about her read on gob in 224.

Ah, then change "instead of" to "as well as".

[Hopkirk]

Ok quick look at Stoz
Pre 166: Nothing really said. You do have a point here actually Dessew, Stoz posts reads, but none that anyone would really look two ways at if he flipped the read. Of course it was the start of the day so this doesn’t mean too much.
166- Vote on Veegee for “activity for the sake of activity”
208- Responds to Dessew. Fair point about Dessew and Gob interaction being strange. He doesn’t go after Dessew though.
267- Example of what he’s done is really minor. The veegee vote doesn’t seem too well backed up at this point. Only other solid stance is accountant town.
355- Consistent on account as town read.
356- “No one should be surprised that Wanderer finds gob scum, it is the only competing wagon to the one on VeeGee / herself.” This feels like a bit of a strange comment. Are you saying the gob wagon is a bad wagon? If you think that Wander is scum, and is trying to misslynch Gob, then why haven’t you opposed the Gob vote? Already said I wasn’t sure what last sentence meant. The replacement thing- I saw a thread in mafia discussion that suggested replacement is null (statistically).
388- He definitely hasn’t said anything about Dessew that would make me think that he’s a top scumread before this. Not sure on the reasoning other than Dessew voting him.

I thought Stoz had said more actually. I want a bit more so...
@ Stoz: Can I get some of your scumreads other than Veegee, and maybe a little more on why you think Veegee is scum. Also what’s your Gob read?


Also, while we have time, some more pressure could be a good idea.
VOTE: Accountant

[Hopkirk]

Some computer problems are having an effect on how much i can say, but nothing has changed my reads significantly over the last couple of pages. I'm a bit worried about Gob being new town rather than scum, and i don't like some of accountant's last posts so i'm keeping my vote here (for the rest of the day).

VLA until this time sunday

(unrelated to computer troubles)

[Hopkirk]

To correct what I said earlier about replacing being unrelated to alignment- actually for new players it’s considerably more likely they replace out as scum.

Vijay reread:
15-70- eight posts with a lot of vote changing and not saying much.
73- Potential helping new partner.
113- Disputes being inactive because he has “more posts than Gob”. Proceeds to say nothing to move anything on.
114- Lack of explination of how Vijay moved from “idk I guess I might as well vote here” to “I’m good with a texcat vote” doesn’t make sense. This post also seems in support of a veegee vote instead of tex.
124- Really feels like tutoring.
133- Paragraphs on veegee (despite not having a vote there) then “SamX and Havingfitz are guilty of the same thing.” Inserted at the end.
136- Restates scumreads on tex and veegee. Doesn’t explain how texcat is sure scum or why Havingfitz/SamX aren’t on this list.
180- Declares hatered of Dessew post and leaves it at that. Responds to my questions about 133 giving reasons for not scumreading SamX (new, though so is veegee) and Having (because he’s V/LA) as much. Nothing else on texcat or Dessew.
305- Says he dislikes an accountant post. Nothing else referencing him. Still happy with Veegee lynch, has said barely any reasons other than stuff at the start, feels like tunnelling while keeping options open for later (no townreads, many posts he doesn’t like but hasn’t expanded on).
529- Vote on Sala>Wanderer makes no sense based on previous comments.
Conclusion: Said even less than I thought. Almost no interactions or stances except on Veegee that isn’t fleshed out. I need to do a veegee reread before I can be sure. I’ll try and do that one tomorrow.
@Vijay: What is your gob read? What other reasons do you have for veegee/wandered scum.

[Hopkirk]

Gob reread
66- Doesn’t want to get game going. When asked to say something makes excuse then comments on the role list in a closed setup. That doesn’t make much sense.
86- Dismisses me talking about him not responding with anything game related with “chill”.
94- I’ve already commented on the problems with the reads list. Most meaningless or make no sense. One of the biggest things is the Trivium scumread (not voting trivium though) is for something so many other people were doing, this has never been responded to.
112- Says reads reflect opinions at the time then several more posts supporting them.
143- Now claims, after being asked a couple of qs (not by me yet) they were basically a joke.
153- This is after I question his reads and he’s back to his reads are what he thought at the time- trying to temporally disassociate. Doesn’t respond to any of my comments about him except with insult “I worry for your mental state”.
165- Not responding.
183- Asked if he thinks veegee is scum (something he hasn’t said himself) and confirms that read + talks about “all the scummy shit he’s done”. The weird bit is that he doesn’t then vote veegee.
184- Top townread on Dessew for no real reason. Gob went from “he answered my question which is cool” to “top townread… providing clarity to the game”. Progression makes no sense.
194- “I just don’t vote”. I don’t see how this can make sense from any perspective. Maybe Scum trying to fly under the radar, but that doesn’t even slightly fit with his other actions. Doesn’t make sense as any alignment, either new or wants to appear new.
234- Hasn’t even mentioned trivium despite that being a big thing I asked about yet claims he’s answered all my qs. Votes Veegee because he’s worried about appearances. The not voting logic makes no sense either.
242- Hasn’t gone through scumread (veegee) but goes through Klingon with conclusion that doesn’t match the rest of the post or the reasoning given.
246- “i can agree with you and say i havent been acting like i should be.” Really rubs me the wrong way.
256- Another instance of being asked to give a read on someone he’s barely mentioned and deciding they’re a top scumread. He isn’t looking for scum on his own, only when forced.
274- Misrepresnts my comment in a way that doesn’t seem accidental.
396- Says that saying his reads were bad= he doesn’t need to explain where they came from/they mean nothing.
414- Dice= Randomly. Klingon read still doesn’t make sense.
428- Repeatedly said up to this point he had a good townread on accountant. Restates here.
443+4- Read changed from townread on accountant to almost happy to hammer, then votes. He’s responding here to something about vidjay and accountant being scum together saying it’s an interesting catch but he doesn’t agree… then he does a 180 on one of his top reads without warning. This is insanely opportunistic. This is a really bad post.
490- Now he expected accountant wouldn’t be able to defend herself, gives impression he’s confident on her being scum.

I should never have taken my vote off him yesterday. On a reread it definitely feels like Scum play rather than new play.
VOTE: Gob

[Hopkirk]

woah okay guess a wagon is on me now

So you think I'm distancing from someone who was voting my slot for most of this Day?

yes.

---

Really funny how this game is going, all i see is Fitz targeting me with no reason over and over again, yet nobody gets on him.

-Not on fitz himself.
-Not mentioned before.
-No case on fitz yet complains people aren't voting him and activity is bad.

The Salamanca vs Vijay 1v1 is amusing.

Salamence, could you point out some important things from Vijay's ISO like you did with Gob? At least part of what you said about Vijay was that he was distancing from Accountant, which doesn't make any sense now.

I think there had to be 1 scum, possibly 2, in the people 7 people that lynched accountant. Removing myself and HC from that list leaves 5.

I would not want to lynch Hopkirk today. Seems reasonably town and is at least doing some ISOs and other things to try to move the game along.

That leaves Wanderer-nl, Salamence20, gob, havingfitz

Not really sure about havingfitz, has the least amount of posts of anyone still in the game. For now though I'm going to say someone going for the lurking scum would probably be off the wagon rather than on, so I'm taking him off the list for now.

That leaves Wanderer-nl, Salamence20, gob

At this stage the best I've got is that one of Wanderer / Salamanca is scum pushing an agenda (so whichever one of you is town should take a long look at the other).

Gob is just all kinds of unknown.

Sorry I don't have more, Fridays during the school terms are not good for me at all (only 1 week left in the term though).

I find the dismissal of gobs as "Gob is just all kinds of unknown." confusing. Have you looked at how he got on the accountant wagon? He made a really sudden u-turn from good townread to sure she's scum with no reasoning other than (salamance i think) saying vijay and accountant could be scum together... despite gob not even believing that. The context of gob's vote was terrible.

[Hopkirk]

His read on accountant before he voted is important as well. It goes from town, to almost happy to hammer without any reasoning.

[Hopkirk]

Shall we have a look at this then.

203- Claims to have scumread on Dessew yet doesn’t like me voting him.

I got prodded (for shame.)
Anyway, I haven't read (for shame, again), but when first skimming through posts at that time, the part above caught my eyes. Acc's point was that there wasn't an actual wagon on me at the time, but the Hopkirk's other scumread did have one (this had been raised by KC before, too.) Hopkirk tried to sell it as a contradiction. I'll take another look to see wether his shifting to the Acc wagon looked constructed as a whole, too, but for now
VOTE: Hopkirk

So the reason for your scumread is: “Acc's point was that there wasn't an actual wagon on me at the time, but the Hopkirk's other scumread did have one (this had been raised by KC before, too.) Hopkirk tried to sell it as a contradiction.”
I’ve read this three times and I’m entirely sure what you’re trying to say, but I think it’s:
1.) Accountant said there was no wagon on Dessew so didn’t like Hopkirk’s vote.
2.) Hopkirk says that this is not in line with accountant’s scumread on Dessew.
3.) This is why Hopkirk thought accountant was scum.

1.) Accountant said that with 10 days left in the day, it doesn’t make any sense to criticise changing votes around early in day one.
2.) It was not, that is pretty clear as not liking a vote on a top scumread is weird.
3.) One valid reason that contributed to the scumread. Funny how you only quoted a third of one point too.
Here’s the relevant posts for context anyway.

I really should have previewed that one. Some of my comments are in the big quote box.
@Hasschel, can you now explain the reasoning you wanted to keep secret from earlier?
@Klingon: We had 10 (now 9) days left in the day. I don't see any problem with putting pressure on other potential scum. Also applies to accountant saying about why split the vote. IF we're wrong D1 we have leads d2, if we're right d1, we have ideas for associations d2.

This is me explaining that you that changing votes around is a good way to get reads.

Right now my strongest scumreads are on VeeGee and Dessew. I'm not sure what gob's doing, he started off fine with clear reads and then went on into a ramble about newbie games and how his reads are always correct. If I had to guess he's VI/scum.

My vote on VeeGee stands. I'm not particularly impressed with Hopkirk's vote splitting, especially as VG hasn't given a very sound defense and has (even more suspiciously IMO) not answered Haschel's question.

Biggest town reads are Haschel, Tex, hop.

Strongest scumreads are on Dessew and Veegee.
Doesn’t want me voting Dessew>Gob.
This does not make sense.

Also this is what I said during my case (that dessew only partially quoted).
203- Claims to have scumread on Dessew yet doesn’t like me voting him. The Dessew read also comes despite 167 also saying she wanted to see more of Dessew, then nothing to really justify the “Dessew is one of my two strongest scumreads”. Also describing Gob’s reads as clear doesn’t sound right to me. Here accountant also gives a scumread on Gob.

-She did have scumread on you (Dessew)
-Not wanting a vote on a top scumread/criticising someone for it makes no logical sense.
-The read switch didn’t really make sense, but you didn’t quote that part.

Summary: Dessew ignored everything i said except one line which he then ignored the actual meaning of in order to make a point that is barely clear.

This just reinforces the strong associations between Dessew and Gob.

[Hopkirk]

*cut*

But Vijay doesn't matter now, I just read the Queue forum, he's being replaced. Back to Square One with that slot.

Oh no. No way you're doing that. You didn't reset your scumread of Veegee when he replaced out so you don't get to do that on Vijay.

Why did you cut the previous line, "I ISO'd Vijay, and what I was seeing put him in a more Townish light." it seems relevant. (though i'd still like to see why it put him in a more townish light)

I had a little thinking but here is my intent to hammer gob.
gob: any last words?
Anyone else have something to say before this Day ends?

I'd like a claim from gob before you hammer. If he doesn't claim in his next post then i'm also okay with a hammer then.

[Hopkirk]

Claiming cop without a result is just lazy. No way it's true.

[Hopkirk]

@Salamance: If Vijay had a cop result on gob then why was voting you all he did yesterday.

Going to have a look through some more isos quickly.

[Hopkirk]

Bad interactions with gob.
(Titus) Dessew/Gob buddying seems quite possible given the rest of gob’s play. Gone through this already.
(Salamance) Gob has an early scumread on salamance (trivium) for no reason- followed up with no vote- seems like a potential pairing- attempting to distance. Plus what fitz said about town until hammer.
(Stoz) Stoz’s stance on gob “all kinds of unknown” really rubs me the wrong way. Also 591+592 look really constructed/fakish.
(Samx) SamX says nothing negative about gob and defends him several times.
(Not_Mafia) Vijay also ignores gob.

Good interactions with gob.
Havingfitz
Texcat
Wanderer- Looks to be genuinely trying to sort gob actually. I need to reread as I’ve been basing my read of wanderer completely on an old veegee read.

Atm i'm thinking 2 of Dessew/Vijay/Stoz. I want a better read on stoz so for now...
VOTE: Stoz

[Hopkirk]

"texcat is a mller to the gunsmith"
I'm not quite sure i'm following, especially this. I thought role cop didn't get alignment?

[Hopkirk]

UNVOTE: Stoz

Either not_mafia or texcat are scum so no point voting stoz.

@Notmafia: Why are you talking about a watcher now? What is your role here.
@Salamance: Where is the counter claim on gob? I just see "he's scum" which is not a claim.

[Hopkirk]

I think i get it (the timings), but what's the watcher got to do with anything?

@Fitz: Gov=Gob.

[Hopkirk]

So if notmafia is scum then his actions would have been like this.
Night 1: Found one shot gunsmith.
Night 2: Left GS alive as he thought he’d already used his shot. Found the doctor.
Could have been planning this play, but that only makes sense if he actually found another pr eventually. Good chance i suppose, but the play could backfire really easily. Not really sure here.
Not sure, but I think wanderer checked vijay/notmafia at some point. Day one he had a scumread on vijay, by day 3 he didn’t even seem to question notmafia’s claim.

Dierfire asking notmafia a question that the wiki answers in the first sentence looks strange.
Stoz today is trying hard to avoid taking a stance.

Scumreads: Titus, Stoz, Dierfire. Need to go back through isos later to think about likely combinations.
Unsure: Notmafia.
Townreads: Haschel, Salamance.

VOTE: Stoz

[Hopkirk]

The first point i don't really know enough about setup design. Most of what i've looked at has been 3 town prs (unless masons or something too). It does look like a pretty strong town though.
The other three points i can think of explanations, but obviously it's notmafia you (and i) want responses from.

[Hopkirk]

@Fitz: You know role cop would find mafia goon as vanilla? Most of the setups i've looked at (with 3 prs for town generally though) have been 2 mafia prs and one mafia goon. Also why is notmafia inspecting salamance bad given he still has a a scumread on both of you (although the one on you does seem to be greater).

@Dierfire: What are you trying to say in 757? You seem to be saying that you agree that the VCA makes stoz look bad, so titus only did a VCA to lynch Stoz? (though i'm not 100% sure if that's what you're actually saying)

@Stoz: Because, assuming notmafia is town and you're scum: If the wagon fell apart then you'd be facing 3 quite powerful town prs, which sounds like something you'd really want to avoid.

[Hopkirk]

@Hopkirk

@Dierfire: What are you trying to say in 757? You seem to be saying that you agree that the VCA makes stoz look bad, so titus only did a VCA to lynch Stoz? (though i'm not 100% sure if that's what you're actually saying)

I'm saying that Titus could have done the VCA earlier than she posted it, or at least known the outline of it, such that she would have known that it would support a vote on Stoz.

But this implies that changing your mind after doing the VCA is a bad thing. What advantage does scum titus get from having a vote on Stoz before the VCA?

[Hopkirk]

Vanilla townie.

Just coming in before going to bed but i'm free most of tomorrow, so should be able to get a bit of rereading done.

[Hopkirk]

So the three most likely cases are Notmafia/Titus, Notmafia/Dierfire, Notmafia/Titus. Going to try and go through each of them now.

Starting with dierfire as he has the least posts (slotwise).
(as SamX)
No reads at the start of the game and for a while (129). Comments on multiple things and accepts its rvs but chooses not to get involved in anything.
Townreads in 155 look reasonably reasoned. Consistent on veegee scumread, though this is neither updated, nor any original reasons given for it.
269= Accountant is “most town”. 344 (after coming back from v/la) accountant is now “a bit scummy” because of the approximate chance of town/scum numbers on gob.346- Weird how he’s changed his top townread because he thinks the attack on Gob is bad, despite claiming to be neutral on Gob. Looks like a defence of Gob, but he doesn’t vote Accountant… though he says that’s just because he prefers a veegee vote.
Never attacks gob, defends a fair amount. Tunnels a scumread without reason.
Replaces out as new player more likely from scum.
(as Dierfire)
Starts off by attack Dessew based on Gob interactions.
679 looks quite natural.
685- Votes Texcat. Unclear why he believes notmafia>Texcat as from 679 it sounded like notmafia was a neutral read and texcat was town.
757 on titus didn’t make sense. Still on titus and little added to the case after first post ingame.

Overall
Some reads look quite natural, the veegee and texcat votes are confusing. The defence of Gob in regard to accountant is really weird.
SamX has suspicious interactions with Gob. Based on these posts, bussing is possible with titus, but notmafia looks like he’d be a more likely partner.

Interactions with Gob
238- Townread on Gob sort of. Says the readslist was good and specifies “I am not defending gob”
344- Read on accountant changing.
Interactions with Titus
238- Townread on dessew for “constructive criticism”. This was mainly stuff like “this is how to format x”, weird reason for a townread.
Tunnels titus upon replace in.
Interactions with Notmafia
163- Sheeps vijay on veegee vote.
685- Votes texcat as L1 vote.

[Hopkirk]

Dessew/Titus next.
(as Dessew) Lots of early fluff. Also defends gob throughout the day. Accepts the association between them exists (“Hopkirk was the first one, to make an association between gob and me”) but doesn’t really comment on it
Takes a long time voting Stoz for sketchy reasons.
Defends gob from accountant too (though by requesting more reasons).
(Titus)
Early stuff doesn’t say much. VCA isn’t really alignment indicative.

Dierfire interactions
Dessew mentions samx once.
Gob interactions
Very friendly/defending/townreading each other pretty inexplicably. Based on Gob’s play, I’m not that confident that gob could make townDessew act like this.
Notmafia interactions
Dessew is nullish on vijay throughout.

Dierfire looks the worse of the two I’ve done so far (Dierfire/Titus. If titus is scum, Notmafia team looks like it would be more likely than dierfire team.

[Hopkirk]

Vijay/Notmafia
(as vijay) Early stuff looks like trying to get a read. Early scumreads on veegee and texcat.
Pretty tunnelling on veegee.
(as notmafia)
Starts with gob vote and happy to hammer is good.
The texcat thing. The stoz hammer.
Dierfire vote today



Gob interactions
Never really reads gob. Pretty weird as Gob does stuff vijay attacks others for, but is pretty much ignored.
Dierfire interactions
133- Accused Samx (and fitz) of doing a very similar thing to his top scumread. Doesn’t really follow up on this until I asked him about it.
The vote today.
Titus interactions
Nothing really picked up on.

Slightly uncomfortable with 1.) a lot of this being technical instead of content, though most of notmafia’s content has been role related. 2.) Possibility NM is being kept alive as lynchbait.
I want to go through gob, I’ll try and do that later today.

@Notmafia: “Even if I'm scum I have no reason to lie about my result, he's scum either way”
So, ignoring present circumstances, why is the possibility that a mafia rolecop claiming rolecop and saying a VT is a pr that can’t be present in the setup during lylo, not at all possible? Why would mafia rolecop and town watcher be impossible but mafia watcher and town rolecop be possible?

I’m thinking notmafia/Dierfire seems like the most likely team at the moment. Want to do more reading/ seeing what happens before deciding which one to vote.

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: Notmafia

[Hopkirk]

Mafia thread release is ok with me. Thanks for modding Radja. Good game.