Mini 1737: Bringer Mafia [Mafia Win]

[All Alone]

/Confirm

[All Alone]

VOTE: Accountant

[All Alone]

VOTE: All Alone

Why are you naked voting in RVS? And on a bandwagon no less.

What else am I gonna do? Write a case on a player who hadn't even posted?

Bandwagons are the best way to RVS because they're the fastest way out of RVS.

[All Alone]

VOTE: Fraggernaut

IMO it doesn't really seem like he's trying to figure the game out. In particular

Also why are we still talking about RVS when it's clearly over?

is a pretty strange thing for Fraggernaut to complain about when he's still on his RVS vote. A townie who sincerely thought RVS was over would most likely be pushing the player they suspect, but Fragger hasn't.

[All Alone]

All Alone is still on their RVS vote as well, nor has made any effort to provide content to this game. Period. So them placing a vote on myself for "not trying to figure out the game" is pretty laughable in itself. If you were just " bandwagoning" a RVS vote to quickly get RVS over with; why haven't you pushed any possible scum yourself? It's not a play that town would make. It's a pity you made yourself this obvious so early on in the game All Alone, especially with possibly outing one of your partners in the process.

I'm not on my RVS vote. My vote is serious, and it just got even more serious. Your case on me doesn't read like a genuine scumhunt at all.

[All Alone]

Please give me more votes

[All Alone]

Now I shall explain why All Alone is scum.

In this game, All Alone was lurking, and posted only about once/twice per day. And when he did, he would shift his vote to the largest wagon possible. Note that he did not ever turn a L-2 wagon into L-1. Also in that game, you can see that in the original game (not restarted) he was town, and didn't jump to the biggest wagon. Very short, but contentful for AA's meta.

In this game, he started a wagon on Accountant first during RVS (of course not his own wagon), and came out only rarely. Then when he came back he shifted his vote to Fraggernaut, who had the largest wagon at that time.

UNVOTE: Fraggernaut
VOTE: All Alone

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Every single thing you've mentioned is something I've done as town and scum. Literally all of them. If you're town, you need to discard this sort of nonsense and look at actual motives.

Such as Fraggernaut, who apparently suspects all five players pushing his lynch. Since there's only 3 scum in this game, a townie should be trying to pare that list down. Fragger isn't. He just keeps throwing more and more crap at everyone voting him. Most likely, he's throwing all that crap in the hopes that everyone else is too fecaphobic to join the wagon. I seriously doubt a townie would feel compelled to do that.

pedit:

lurks for half a day

Bullet, you might want to be aware that some dumbass is writing completely fucking stupid shit while signed in to your account.

[All Alone]

Keyser Soze

- Town lean. I like Keyser early game, but this is subjected to change at any time. He's actively asking questions & for the most part seems like he's trying to scum hunt.

This really doesn't feel like a genuine read. Occasionally in the Road to Rome I see newbies explain their town reads by saying fluffy things like "actively asking questions" and "trying to scum hunt", because they don't have the experience to explain a read in depth. Fragger isn't a newbie. I'm sure he's seen scum ask questions and try to scum hunt, so I seriously doubt he'd townread Keyser for doing them. It reads like he's trying to stay on Keyser's good side more than he's trying to figure out Keyser's alignment.

Also I like Vedith's explanation of how scum would most likely attempt to try to fit in, & try to appease the other town but saying exactly what they want to hear.

It's pretty weird that Fragger would endorse this point, and then not use it in his own scumlist. When a townie agrees that certain behavior is scummy, they'll look for that behavior in their own scumhunting. Fragger doesn't. He points out similar behavior from BlockyMan:

His #124 & #171 seemed like he was trying to coax or buy a town read from myself & Keyser.

but despite that, he calls Blocky nullish with a slight town lean. That's a pretty good indicator that he's not genuinely scumhunting.

Frozen Angel-

Frozen kind of null here with a pretty substantial slight scum lean.

This sentence right here is the fakest fake that ever faked. I mean really, what the hell is a "pretty substantial slight scum lean"? A townie with a substantial scum lean wouldn't describe their lean as slight, and a townie with a slight scum lean wouldn't describe their lean as pretty substantial.

They placed me into L2 without stating intent which was very bad in my opinion. Said I was being "defensive" & used that as a excuse to put a vote on me placing me at L2 without stating intent.

"L2 without stating intent"? Good grief, there's no way in purple hell that someone who's been here since May seriously believes you need intent to put someone at L2.

Accountant

- Accountant was disappointed by their role PM cause they know they rolled Mafia.

If Fragger genuinely felt this way about Accountant's confirm post, I seriously doubt he'd have waited until now to bring it up. Pushing her on it at the beginning of the game would have been a good way to get out of RVS, if nothing else. It reads like he's decided to change his viewpoint on the post to suit his needs, which isn't something a townie would likely feel the need to do.

Originally I thought Radiant was just a troll, but now I think they're just MAFIA with Accountant

It's to me, a very obvious & pretty awful slip from All Alone who was trying to most likely sheep off their partner Bullet

A townie would

definitely

see something wrong with this picture.

Fraggernaut is 110% scum, turbolynch him good day

[All Alone]

"they actually think they're right."

HAHAHAHAHA YOU SLIPPED AND ADMITTED ACCOUNTANT AND I ARE GENUINE

PILE VOTES ON FRAGGER FOR THE TURBOLYNCH, THANKS

[All Alone]

This Bullet wagon is lazy and awful. I really don't get any sense of disingenuity out of his reads.

BlockyMan reads like scum. He's vote parking on Cowbells hard and it really doesn't seem to bother him at all that nobody else is following him. He's not doing anything to push a wagon on Cowbells. I doubt a townie would be okay with nobody voting their top scum read like he is. But as scum trying to avoid attention, Blocky's play makes a lot more sense.

Fraggernaut is still today's lynch though. On top of everything else I've mentioned, the "DID I MENTION I HAVE A SOFTCLAIM IN THE PAST FIVE MINUTES" stuff he's pulling is just flagrantly phony. Town PRs have two motives that they have to choose between: making their role known to the town, and keeping their role secret from scum. Fragger's loud softclaiming doesn't benefit either one of those motives. If he wanted his role secret from scum, he wouldn't be advertising it this loudly. And if he wanted his role known to the town, he wouldn't be so vague about what his role is. It reads like he wants to scare town into not voting him because he might be a PR, but doesn't want to actually claim a PR because he doesn't know which claims are safe.

[All Alone]

Fraggernaut is still today's lynch though. On top of everything else I've mentioned, the "DID I MENTION I HAVE A SOFTCLAIM IN THE PAST FIVE MINUTES" stuff he's pulling is just flagrantly phony. Town PRs have two motives that they have to choose between: making their role known to the town, and keeping their role secret from scum. Fragger's loud softclaiming doesn't benefit either one of those motives. If he wanted his role secret from scum, he wouldn't be advertising it this loudly. And if he wanted his role known to the town, he wouldn't be so vague about what his role is. It reads like he wants to scare town into not voting him because he might be a PR, but doesn't want to actually claim a PR because he doesn't know which claims are safe.

The fact that you want a hard claim day one makes me read you even more scummy. There is no way this logic comes from town especially when you're trying to out a PR while hiding it behind a disguise. This is a pretty bad form of trying to PR hunt while making it look like you're scum hunting.

Why would I need to try to scare my other townies? Your wagon is weak & falling apart regardless of how hard you're trying to bury me.

I don't want you to claim.

[All Alone]

OK, so it has been agreed on that Fraggernaut has soft claimed a PR. So I would like to ask everyone, do you believe his soft claim, and do you think he should be lynched today, and do you think he should be unwagobed?

Personally I think I lean towards believing, but if he doesn't die tonight he is more likely to be scum. (Of course now I've mentioned it scum would avoid this, but I need to be fair so I need to give my own personal opinion)

I have never seen town softclaim a generic PR, and can't think of a town motive to do so. He should definitely be lynched today.

[All Alone]

what the heck, Radiant isnt getting lynched anytime soon, might as well go with SR number 2. No one put him at L-1, its too early for that.
VOTE: BulletNLynchProof

I REALLY DONT LIKE HOW RADIANT HOPPED ON THE BIGGEST WAGON, AND I REEEEALLY WANT RADIANT GONE

This is also scummy. Blocky has made no effort to convince town that Cowbells is scum today, and here he just gives up on it. I doubt a townie who wanted the Cowbells lynch this badly would give up on it with no effort, but scum trying to lie low would have no problem doing that. I also doubt a townie would attack a player for hopping onto the biggest wagon while simultaneously hopping onto the same wagon. It reads like he knows his jump onto Bullet is scummy and is trying to project his own scumminess to Cowbells.

[All Alone]

How many games have you seen on site? I've seen generic PRS claimed quite often in games.

played in 8, read 8 trillion

[All Alone]

VOTE: All Alone

Call it OMGUS all you want. I call it taking care of outed scum.

Except I haven't OMGUSed so please, continue being bad.

Really, how much more evidence do we need that Fraggernaut is disingenuous?

[All Alone]

I left out the rest of that quote because it was a huge boring wall, and none of the rest of it changes the whole "Call it OMGUS if you want" "okay it's OMGUS" "HOW DARE YOU CALL IT OMGUS???!?!?!?" aspect of your disingenuous scumlordery

also why would I be salty about my "slip" when nobody at all believes that I slipped? like not even the two other voters on my wagon believe that. and I know you're not stupid, so I'm pretty certain you're cognizant of that fact. but you're so dedicated to pretending to be overconfident town that you refuse to break from the role even in situations where an actual townie would have nothing to be overconfident about

[All Alone]

I would also turbolynch Bleeding Scar. She has her vote on me while

not

pushing the idea of me being scum,

at all

. She claims my lynch would be the most informative, and then it turns out the prized "information" we'd get from my town flip is that scum are likely split on the wagons. Wow, scum tend to split up on wagons?

No shit, Sherlock!

She's not even pretending to be interested in figuring out who's scum here, she's just looking for any excuse to push a terrible wagon.

Everyone get your votes off Bullet, he's an incredibly terrible lynch compared to Fragger and Scar.

[All Alone]

I am not going to try and shake up the game with 30 hours left. I do think you're scum just taking potshots at the easy players pushing your wagon.

Nice try, but the easiest player pushing my wagon is Bullet and I'm arguing against lynching him. Try again!

The question wasn't why I think you're scum but what we'd learn either way. Your push has been, hey let's turbo lynch one of the replacements before he gets going is NOT a townie response. You don't care about my reads or my thoughts. You solely care that I am on you.

IT'S ALMOST LIKE YOUR ATTACK ON ME IS THE FOCAL POINT OF YOUR PLAY YOU DISINGENUOUS SCUMLORD

If you did care, you'd ask. This attitude is hard to explain but pretty defensive and scummy.

Nope, I don't think asking questions is a very effective way to scumhunt for the most part. I'd rather let people post what they want, and analyze the reasons why they chose to post it. I can't really do that if the reason is because I asked them about it, can I now?

And here's another reason I think you're scum: in this post, you complain that I attacked you before you got going. But in the same post, you acknowledge that the deadline is near. If you're town and you know the deadline is near, why exactly are you putting off your get-go? Townies need to make the most of the day phase, and you don't look like you're doing that. You look like you're hoping to get through the day phase without drawing too much attention.

[All Alone]

Eh, I think turbolynching is bad, so I want to know why he thinks turbolynching is acceptable.

Because I've identified Fraggernaut as scum, and I'd rather get scum out of the game sooner than later.

Slandaar, I don't agree with that Bullet's question here is scummy. Newbies in general tend to overvalue Discussion as this sacred concept that always helps town no matter what, and therefore want to get as much Discussion as possible, because any less Discussion just wouldn't be protown. From that point of view, a turbolynch seems like anathema. And Bullet specifically has a reason to be paranoid of me: in our previous game together, I was scum, and I quickhammered a townie 24 hours into D2 to shut down discussion way too early. With that being his only experience with a speedy lynch, I don't really think that his suspicion of my call for a turbolynch here is disingenuous.

All Alone won't let up with the Fraggernaut-lynch. I can see how town-All Alone could read Fraggernaut as scummy. But based on my town-lean read of Fraggernaut, and the fact All Alone's ISO is primarily focused on Fraggernaut (and not figuring out the alignment of everyone) makes me fear this is scum-All Alone. An interesting/angry ISO. A reads list from All Alone would be great.

I don't do read lists. I keep my focus and attention where I think they're most useful.

[All Alone]

If I'm mislynched & flip town, you have absolutely nothing to go on.

If I'm mislynched and flip town, town has plenty to go on. Namely that my strong scumreads on Fraggernaut and Bleeding Scar are completely sincere.

See that? That's the type of thing a townie who's at risk of getting lynched says, because they want to help the remaining townies lynch correctly to ensure they win in the end. Fragger doesn't do that. Fragger tries to scare town off his wagon with the threat that his mislynch won't help the game. I seriously doubt a townie would ever concern himself with that.

[All Alone]

If I'm mislynched & flip town, you have absolutely nothing to go on.

If I'm mislynched and flip town, town has plenty to go on. Namely that my strong scumreads on Fraggernaut and Bleeding Scar are completely sincere.

See that? That's the type of thing a townie who's at risk of getting lynched says, because they want to help the remaining townies lynch correctly to ensure they win in the end. Fragger doesn't do that. Fragger tries to scare town off his wagon with the threat that his mislynch won't help the game. I seriously doubt a townie would ever concern himself with that.

Yet you're still so wrong. I've already gave plenty as to the scum that are on my wagon. Accountant, Bullet, Radiant & yourself. One if not two are scum. When I flip town, proving you to be a total donkey, then town needs to lynch out of those four.

So, if you've given plenty for town to go on if you flip town, THEN WHY DID YOU SAY TOWN WOULD HAVE NOTHING TO GO ON

FDKGHISDFKIGHFDSJKHGDFSKJHG

PUT THIS DISINGENUOUS SCUM IN THE DEAD THREAD ALREADY

[All Alone]

an easy way to prevent an NL would be to lynch Fraggernaut

[All Alone]

I really doubt there's a watcher and doctor in the same setup. One, that'd mean there's two roles that punish scum for shooting an outed PR, which is generally the correct scum play, and the whole reason town PRs have to hide in the first place. Two, doctor+watcher is a ridiculously townsided combo in and of itself, since if watcher and doctor target each other, scum can't kill the watcher, and have to out one of their own to kill the doctor. Firebringer isn't a first time mod, he's a mod on SC2Mafia, so I think a fakeclaim is more likely than a mod oversight.

And I find Blocky's claim waaaaaaaaay more natural than Fragger's.

I think out of all the PR claims, the fakest ones are Bullet, Blocky, & Vedith (If you consider their claim a claim). Bullets came at a opportunistic time when their wagon was building steam. This also could of been cause scum Bullet realized they needed to make a claim or counter claim cause they wouldn't be able to after today. I feel the same way about Blocky's claim. A case of scum realizing it was too late with PRS outting that they had to make some sort of claim or counter claim. I would he confident lynching one or the other.

I mean really, Fragger spent the whole damn day softclaiming a PR while a wagon was building on him, so I seriously doubt he'd be this confident that that's a scum maneuver if he's town. This reads like scum projection.

I think lynching Fragger and Blocky watching Accountant is definitely the correct play here.

[All Alone]

ok first and most importantly. bullet i owe you an apology for insulting you yesterday. i don't think you're a dumbass, i got angry and i used my anger as an excuse to say things i don't mean. that was really shitty of me and i apologize

secondly,

VOTE: Fraggernaut

[All Alone]

I didn't push Bullet yesterday. I said several times that I didn't think he was playing disingenuously at all.

[All Alone]

Vedith, are you just a VT fakeclaiming cop or actually a cop? Because I'm finding it hard to believe that there are this many PRs.

We're not lynching you anyway because I have an innocent on you, but I'm just having difficult seeing this as a setup.

Rolefishing someone you've got an innocent on does not make sense unless you're scum figuring out whether you need to kill him or not.

And you used the 1 shot on accountant last night instead of saving it?

Yes, considering that I could die soon. I figured Accountant was the most likely to be attacked, other than me.

There were two PR claims and a confirmed innocent who's been softclaiming a PR. Accountant had retracted their PR claim, and had been on both mislynches. Even if you were dead certain Accountant was town, what motive would scum have to kill them, when they're easy mislynch bait, over conftowns and PR claims? And you were confident enough about it to use your only doc shot? I have a hard time believing that.

wow, is this after you find vedith not guilty? when you believe he is actually town?

guys we have a scum here!

Yeah, I can't imagine a cop being so vague about someone that they have an inno on.

In the first Newbie game I played, I was a tracker and did a similar thing. I townread the player that I had an innocent result on, but didn't associate with them too closely in case the scum noticed something.

Yeah, no. That's not the same thing at all. Townreading your innocent but being vague about why is pretty standard play for a town investigative. "I'm not sure what to think about him, but he's being evasive and insensible" is absolutely not how a town investigative talks about their innocent. "I believe Blocky's claim over Vedith's one" isn't either, and that particular statement should make it pretty clear that your excuse for not protecting Blocky was a lie.

VOTE: Expedience

L-1, someone hammer!

ErrantParabola is probably also scum. He didn't once give any kind of read on Fraggernaut, which is highly unusual given how long Fragger was in the spotlight this game. And even what little he said about Bullet D1 was incredibly fluffy for someone who had his vote there the entire day. He reads more like he's trying to avoid drawing attention to himself than like he's trying to get scum lynched.

[All Alone]

VOTE: Errantparabola

[All Alone]

Good lord. When I said I supported turbolynching, I meant lynching as soon as you've gotten a good read out of the discussion, not

bypassing discussion entirely

. D4 was particularly gross, Errant definitely should've gotten a chance to defend themself or at least give scumreads before dying.

Well done scum, and very special thanks to Firebringer for paying me to say he did a good job modding <3

Yeah Fragger's soft claim caused all the PRs to die early.

Did I do anything wrong? Surely a PR wouldn't let himself get lynched, especially on Day 1. I guess I was indeed being too survivalistic. (I tried to avoid claiming for as long as possible as I haven't managed to use an ability before and I wanted to, but that ended up even worse for the town)

I think with six claims/softs in play D1, people had good reason to suspect shenanigans, and yours just happened to come off as the most survivalistic other than maybe Frag's. But 99% of the time holding off on your claim is the best way to handle pressure as PR, and there wasn't really any way you could've predicted the claimfest, so I definitely don't think you did anything wrong.