Mini 1741: Day 3

[Mathilda]

VOTE: Keyser Söze for having umlauts which require me to plug in my German keyboard everytime I write his name.

[Mathilda]

VOTE: Zulfy
So, what made you change your vote immediately from one post to the next?

1. Wanted the wagon.
2. Curious to see who would call me out on it. Now I get to ask: What'd ya do that for?

That suggests to me that both you and Zulfy are playing pro-town, and you at least are more likely to be town (which isn't saying much at this point in the game when there is no information to go). Scum hide best in the long term when they are considered to be scum hunting but they try to avoid drawing suspicion on themselves and certainly won't do that in order to help town.

This theory of course relies on us actually believing your explanation though. Why did you wait 7 minutes before posting a new vote?

[Mathilda]

This is my first game in a while. Hey Garmr, RC, Aneninen, anyone else that I recognized from the player list that I can't remember off the top of my head.

VOTE: Zulfy
So, what made you change your vote immediately from one post to the next?

1. Wanted the wagon.
2. Curious to see who would call me out on it. Now I get to ask: What'd ya do that for?

What, you actually searched MafiaWiki for the definition? How cute.

I think you will find that trying to lynch someone based purely on what font they use is "bad town" and harmful to town.

Which obviously makes him town!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RadiantCowbells

I don't buy this from Zulfy. If he really did want the wagon, then I find it highly unlikely he would forget (after a few posts) that he was already voting for RC. Plus, his second vote doesn't make sense.

VOTE: Zulfy

It is difficult to imagine the same person making a mistake so early in the same game as they make a make a keen strategic ploy, as described in #23. It suggests that he is not paying that much attention to the game and that his excuse is not to be trusted.

[Mathilda]

[quote="In
If the RVS captain planet hatewagon ever gets to L-1 I will hammer.

Wooah! Intention to hammer already? I liked your effort to get us out of RVS whatever your motivation, but I can't see why you should be so sure of anything at this point to state an intention to hammer, even speculative.

UNVOTE: Keyser because I liked #53.

VOTE: Zulfy for above reasons.

[Mathilda]

[quote="In

VOTE: Keyser Söze for having umlauts which require me to plug in my German keyboard everytime I write his name.

Kackendes Täubchen.

Oooh I like that insult. I shall add it to my collection. It's an ambition of mine to someday be able to rant in Bayrisch. It just sounds like a lot of fun

[quote="In

This theory of course relies on us actually believing your explanation though. Why did you wait 7 minutes before posting a new vote?

Aha.

It is difficult to imagine the same person making a mistake so early in the same game as they make a make a keen strategic ploy, as described in #23. It suggests that he is not paying that much attention to the game and that his excuse is not to be trusted.

Are you scum, Mathilde?

I'm almost offended! This town really assumes the worst, don't it?

Are you scum with Mathilde?

No. Are you?

Not convinced by your scum hunting abilities here. You were hardly trying to add pressure to me with a question like that. But it does display a certain confidence that you are town and can demonstrate it. Not something you'd want to advertise if this really was the case. And this confidence can also be faked to make yourself look more towny, which in itself is scummy.

[Mathilda]

Also, the flying fuck is Lhix doing?

Sorry. Was feeling a bit off and was trying to bait reaction out of RVS to actually get the ball rolling and have something comprehensive to look at and read/analyze/hunt/discuss. Was a bit of a risky thing to attempt, but it has worked for me in the past I suppose. Still feeling it out on this new meta though

But we're already out of RVS. Zulify did that waaay back, and then sort of continued to make himself look scummy when he should have stopped and could have looked town.

[Mathilda]

[quote="In I honestly dont see much going on but loads of crap having spilled over from it for the last page or so. Basically RC, Frozen, Jake, Me, Keyser all went insane for a moment from the look of it.

Is this usual? This is only my third game on this forum, my other two games were newbie games and they were so deadly serious that a single sentence introduction could ping people's scumdar if it was slightly unusual in tone. To be honest it kind of put me off the forum at the time but I'm glad I stayed, especially if it's looking like people are allowed to be more human.

[Mathilda]

Can someone explain to me why Keyser's reaction to Lhix was weird? Everyone seems to be jumping on a lynch wagon and agreeing but no one can explain why.

I'm wondering if we'll find scum on that wagon at the end of the game.

[Mathilda]

[quote="In

UNVOTE: Keyser because I liked #53.

What did you like in that post?

The way he took the pressure in his stride. But particularly the comment out of breaking us out of RVS.

If I had to explain the first day to someone who does not play Mafia the very concept of it seems ridiculous.


Player: You see no one knows anything so we accuse each other in the hope of getting them to slip up. That's why we start off with random votes which obviously don't mean anything.
Noob: But why react at all if no one can take the random vote seriously and you know that they don't know anything? And how can you recognise if someone has slipped up if you yourself don't know anything?
Player: Yeah well it works once you get past the random vote stage. A random vote is the gaming equivalent of commenting on the weather.

Or maybe I just don't explain things very well.

[Mathilda]

By the way, I won't be making a roleclaim unless the mod confirms the rule regarding claiming scum with another player. If I do roleclaim, we will likely be lynching someone on my wagon.

Well if it comes to that, then for future reference, ignoring random votes the wagon is / has been:

TheLhix #45
RadiantCowbells #79
TheLhix #83
RadiantCowbells 140
TheLhix #143
InputPrimary #160
Jake from State Farm #167

Although I do note that you are now effectively soft claiming something more important than a VT which is suspicious. There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet.

[Mathilda]

The way he took the pressure in his stride. But particularly the comment out of breaking us out of RVS.

Why is breaking the RVS a tell? As for the pressure on him, I don't think I agree.

Although I do note that you are now effectively soft claiming something more important than a VT which is suspicious. There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet.

Whut?!
The way he took the pressure (see above) first and "something more important than a VT which is suspicious. There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet" ???

NoNoNONONO

NO

.

It's in scum's interest to spend longer in RVS because it is not possible to hunt scum when no one can take your vote seriously. This is because it does not assert any pressure on the recipient. The more time that is spend on scum hunting the harder it is to avoid suspicion. So someone who breaks us out of RVS is in my opinion playing pro-town. Now you can argue that scum could go about hiding by play pro-town but in my experience people remember suspicious behaviour more than they remember how other people played pro-town.

With regard to pressure, you have to take things within context. At the beginning of the thread there is very little to go on because there is very little information available. So there is only so much pressure that can be applied. This limits how confident you can be with your reads. My initial impressions were that Keyser handled the relative pressure that was available reasonably well

considering that the game had only just started

.

Soft claiming though, which is quite a major step to be done much later in the game when you think that there is a real danger of being lynched, was premature.

Her reads don't seem to boil down to anything.

Are you suggesting that I should be utterly confident in my reads this early in the game and unwilling to entertain all possibilities or to change my mind?

[Mathilda]

@Anen
Hmmm... that is not what I was seeing from Math that was making me suspicious.
I was wondering / hoping if you saw the same thing I did, which would give me some confidence I wasn't keying onto noise. But you did not.

I would be interested to hear what you found suspicious about me.

[Mathilda]

It's in scum's interest to spend longer in RVS because it is not possible to hunt scum

people still think this?

Well it's certainly in their interest to hamper town's ability to scum hunt effectively, however they do it. Keeping town in RVS for longer is just one method at their disposal, admittedly not necessarily the most nuanced or effective.

[Mathilda]

I disliked this post:

That suggests to me that both you and Zulfy are playing pro-town, and you at least are more likely to be town (which isn't saying much at this point in the game when there is no information to go). Scum hide best in the long term when they are considered to be scum hunting but they try to avoid drawing suspicion on themselves and certainly won't do that in order to help town.

a) Those pronouncements of pro-town play seemed out of line with actions. I don't think Zulfy was playing pro-town, so coming up with a town read on him / her at that juncture struck me as not in line with the facts (aka maybe scum with bonus info).
b) I find 'Scum would play like x' posts made in a vacuum to be mildly suspicious. Speculation about play vs 'Scum play like X and person Y is doing that ergo Y is scum'. The later is towny, and the former scummy. (I hope I am communicating this well, if it is confusing let me know.)

It's a bit thin, so I was wondering if anyone else was seeing the same thing, or if I was jumping at a shadow.

Well all I can talk about is experience of what works from being a mediocre fish in a rather small pond. Different strategies evolve in different forums. This forum is certainly different to what I am used to and I am still finding my feet.

Zulfry quickly became scummy after those posts, but performing his first random vote and then changing it 7 minutes later when he didn't need to right at the beginning of the game to get the conversation started in my own personal humble opinion is a pro-town move. Regardless of where you play, town always starts day 1 with very little or no information and needs to generate it by whatever means necessary.

[Mathilda]

I was afraid I was communicating poorly, and I think that fear has been realized. I think you'ved missed my point. I'm not saying your experiences are wrong, I'm saying how you used / expressed them was scummy.
To give an example to make this clearer:
"I have seen scum lurk before, because it means they don't have to post / scum hunt, and Input is lurking. Ergo, Input is scum" <- This is a towny comment. (Disclaimer: I chose a random name, please do not construe this as an actual judgement).
"Scum tend to lurk!" <- Scummy comment; it's active-lurking. It looks like scum hunting, but doesn't identify specific scum in this case, so is a good way to appear to scum hunt without actually doing so (hence scumminess).

Ah fair enough. Like referring to town and mafia rather than them and us. And talking about generic game mechanics rather than scum hunting. It's just how I think of the game, in terms of mechanics. I love designing my own games and thinking about strategy. I pay attention to how I express myself when I am scum because I know that that's what really alerts people. In this game I'm just out to enjoy myself. I've been scum in the last four games I've played (three on another forum) and it really wore me down so I'm just happy to be town this time round and trying to figure things out.

So, why do you think Zulfry is scummy?

His play since that consecutive vote is not consistent with his excuse for getting us beyond RVS. He hasn't really been analysing what people say and looking for any tells, which he would if his initial excuse for two consecutive votes was genuine. And above all, stating an intent to hammer at this stage of the game when someone isn't even at L-1.

[Mathilda]

His play since that consecutive vote is not consistent with his excuse for getting us beyond RVS. He hasn't really been analysing what people say and looking for any tells, which he would if his initial excuse for two consecutive votes was genuine. And above all, stating an intent to hammer at this stage of the game when someone isn't even at L-1.

What did you think about what Lhinx wrote about KS scum slipping?
143 / 145

Could you explain what exactly the scumslip is please because I didn't pick up on it. Thanks.

[Mathilda]

Could you explain what exactly the scumslip is please because I didn't pick up on it. Thanks.

I don't know what it is. That's part of why I'm trying to get the players involved to talk about it.
I'd very much like Elyse to weigh in, since her questioning provoked the exchange.

Hmm, glad I'm not the only one then!

[Mathilda]

To anybody who ever plays with me in the future: When an RVS wagon gets to L1 I will always hammer.
If that wagon goes away and comes back with some essence? Then yea, that's called playing mafia.

Why?

The whole point of the wagon is to create pressure. Scum are more likely to slip under pressure. There is more pressure if the recipient is at L-1.

You are also assuming that an alternative wagon wouldn't also be for completely arbitrary reasons.

[Mathilda]

P.S I am scum and so is CP. I am taking him to hell with me

@Lhix, what was the best possible scum tell that you were hoping for in saying this if Keyser is scum?

How would this differ from his reaction if he is town?

If Keyser had reacted in a way that clearly told you that he is scum, how likely is it that town!Keyser could also react like that?

[Mathilda]

What are your thoughts on our less-active participants? Scorpious, Input, and Jake (who is talking more, but doesn't strike me as super substantive at the moment). Opinions? Disagree on my bucketing of them? Have others you think need to be in this grouping?

Jake was in the last game I played in and he was very talkative back then. He was heavily involved in a lynch wagon against me and then against someone else.

[Mathilda]

we played together? I don't remember

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=63145

I had a different avatar.

[Mathilda]

oh i replaced, out, that's probably why I don't remember

Sorry but I'm not buying this.

Our argument was dominating the thread on day 1 until I got to the point where I was seriously considering replacing out and leaving the forum for good.

But my main concern is that your play style is so different in this game. Far lurkier.

VOTE: Jake from state farm

[Mathilda]

It's in scum's interest to spend longer in RVS because it is not possible to hunt scum when no one can take your vote seriously. This is because it does not assert any pressure on the recipient. The more time that is spend on scum hunting the harder it is to avoid suspicion. So someone who breaks us out of RVS is in my opinion playing pro-town. Now you can argue that scum could go about hiding by play pro-town but in my experience people remember suspicious behaviour more than they remember how other people played pro-town.

I don't think it's working in that way.
Actually this reasoning reminds me of my first scumgame. I used another kind of generalization there ("scums are lurking early-game") so as to avoid picking up fights and draw too much attention on me.

Are you suggesting that I should be utterly confident in my reads this early in the game and unwilling to entertain all possibilities or to change my mind?

No.
But your posts were typlically "one step forward, one step back". This is a good way to look as if you were doing something whilst avoiding direct conflicts with others.

This is true Mathilda, have you replied to this?

I started to then decided not to. I do understand why you and Aneninan say that. This is Day 1 so all we have to analyse is behaviour and tone. They're things to look out for but they don't build a case. I'm not interested in trying to appear town, I'm just interested in hunting out scum. If that means that I attract attention then I don't mind. It's ultimately all information for town.

a) Those pronouncements of pro-town play seemed out of line with actions. I don't think Zulfy was playing pro-town

Do you think I'm playing anti-town? What is your read on me right now?

To anybody who ever plays with me in the future: When an RVS wagon gets to L1 I will always hammer.
If that wagon goes away and comes back with some essence? Then yea, that's called playing mafia.

Why?

Not relevant to this game at all now. We can talk about it some other time if you'd like.

Except it is relevant because you brought it up #65. It rings LAMISTry to me and now you're evading giving an explanation. I'm not interested in getting bogged down in a conversation of generic game mechanics, but I do want to know that you had a good reason to policy lynch Keyser in the event of reaching L-1 from RVS.

[Mathilda]

I started to then decided not to. I do understand why you and Aneninan say that. This is Day 1 so all we have to analyse is behaviour and tone. They're things to look out for but they don't build a case. I'm not interested in trying to appear town, I'm just interested in hunting out scum. If that means that I attract attention then I don't mind. It's ultimately all information for town.

That's even worse. It sounds like a kind of appeasing in my mind.

Or nonchalence Hmmm ... need a more appropriate smiley for nonchalence ...

It's interesting though, how could I have answered your accusation perfectly so that you went away thinking "yeah that Math, she's one of us, she's town to the core y'know ..." ?

Second question, assume for now that I am telling the truth in that last paragraph, what should I have said instead so that it didn't sound like it was appeasing you? Should I have lied?

Because if there was no way for me to properly answer that question then what you're doing is throwing shade rather than scum hunting.

You're throwing out a lot of questions in a scatter gun approach and keeping everyone on their toes, but has anyone done the same to you? Is this a case of the best defence is offence? From what I can see you're not actually pursuing any line of questioning that far.

Then there were a couple of screwed-up quotes which I can't comprehend.

The quotes afterwards were in response to someone else.

[Mathilda]

The back and forth with Adenine interests me and I want more from this.

VOTE: Mathilda

What do you find interesting about it and how does voting for me encourage more dialogue between Adenine and myself?

[Mathilda]

It's interesting though, how could I have answered your accusation perfectly so that you went away thinking "yeah that Math, she's one of us, she's town to the core y'know ..." ?

Yes, you could. I'm not performing

Regardless of Card

.

You mean the best way for me to have answered your question was to not answer? I did but Zullfy asked why I had not responded.

However, one thing bothers me a lot. That "one of

us

". Why are you

that

sure that I'm town? No townie could be sure about my alignment.

Fair enough.

Are you town?

Obviously you're going to answer yes to this regardless of your alignment. That's a safe assumption to make for the purpose of having a conversation. That doesn't mean to say that I necessarily believe that you actually are town. The only one who I think is town at the moment is Zoronos although because of your questioning I am starting to put you in the town camp.

Second question, assume for now that I am telling the truth in that last paragraph, what should I have said instead so that it didn't sound like it was appeasing you? Should I have lied?

The tone, Mathilda, that's it.

Tone is subjective and is only an indicator based on how you play yourself as town or scum and have experienced other people playing

on this specific forum

. Different people play in different ways so it is not a reliable indicator.

I paid far more attention to tone in the last game I played on mafiascum when I was scum. I ended up in lylo with two townies convinced that the other one was the remaining scum. In this game though I don't really care if my tone attracts attention. It acts like bait and allows me to see who is actively looking for tells and who is being opportunistic.

After all, you are picking up on tone, whereas RadiantCowbell's vote could be seen as being opportunistic #385

[Mathilda]

Don't you think that that pigeon is adorable?

Even cooler when you think that all birds are dinosaurs.

[Mathilda]

Providing it was on MafiaScum, show me that game, Mathilda.

Same game that Jake can't remember playing #302. I started out really badly because it was the first game I had played on mafiascum from the beginning and wasn't familiar with the culture. I was also suffering a really bad cold that made me take days off work sick, which is extremely rare for me. After day 1 though I played it more carefully. I was doing the back and forth weighing up all possibilities thing on that thread that you have accused me of doing on this thread, but I spent a long, long time crafting each post to be careful about tone so I got away with it.

[Mathilda]

Well Mathilda, you said that my vote COULD BE SEEN as opportunistic.

Do you think that it's opportunistic? Where are you at on my alignment?

Well you didn't answer my question in #390 about your vote so I can't really see why you voted the way you did. At most all I can see it being is a pressure vote to encourage me to respond to Anoneneninenen.

I need to iso you before saying what I make of your alignment. I've been concentrating on other people for now but I'll pay more attention to you next.

[Mathilda]

I remember someone saying in that thread that you had left the forum. I was worried in case it was our little barney that made you leave.

[Mathilda]

Yeah, but I could easily be scum. Are you gonna do something about it?

Any of us could be scum. Blatent dodge of a question.

So I will repeat my question from #390 which you have refused to answer twice now.

How does voting for me encourage more dialogue between Adenine and myself?

From what I'm seeing it's just an arbitrary vote thrown out where-ever you see pressure being put on someone to make you look town.

That's not scum hunting. That's opportunism. Scum hunting is looking out for any potential tells (like Adenenine has been doing), or any mistakes and querying people about them.

[Mathilda]

ISOing RadiantCowbells right now.

After a random vote, she votes Keyser for his font (basically another random vote because it's not based on his opinions about Keyser's alignment) #22. He claims it's a policy lynch, but because it's nothing to do with his win condition it's equivalent to a random vote. That resulted in 7 posts.


He then votes Elyse because her scum game scares him #68. So this is again a random vote because Elyse hasn't done anything to warrant being voted for in this game so it's completely random whether a vote for her will move RC towards satisfying his win condition.

But before Elyse actually posts changes his vote again to Keyser just over two hours later #79 (note: there seems to have been some deleted posts). This time for a supposed scum slip which is tenuous at best. Then a fluff post.

We get another vote for the same person but using a different name #103 (Captain Planet is Keyser right?). This is then was followed with 5 more posts of fluff.

Back then to a naked vote on Keyser #140.

Then back to voting for Elyse #261. But this time it's not a random vote, but because "Elyse literally has not managed to make one post that hasn't triggered my scumdar."

@RC can you please specify exactly what Elyse has said that pings you as scummy?

So far it's looking like you are focusing on people to make it appear that you are applying pressure but without actually scum hunting.

Ironically despite performing a multitude of completely arbitrary votes RC now tells someone in no uncertain terms that we're out of RVS #273. So hypocrisy from RC despite him later having to defend himself from calling someone else a hypocrite #285.

We then have a few posts of single line rants. Followed by this:

Why are you so resolved to defend Elyse?

You didn't hear my reasons and you were already dead set on defending her.

Yet RC hasn't actually given any reasons yet for voting Elyse, not backed up by any specific details or references to posts. Just one post from RC saying that Elyse pings his scumdar.

We finally have a partial scum read from RC #289. So at least something of substance but no explanation as to why.

How is this supposed to help town?

Two more fluff posts, followed by two posts containing a single line each. Then he diverts his attention to me.

So all in all, a fluff poster that has been making arbitrary votes that do not further a town!RC win condition and very little or no explanation at all. I see an opportunistic voter bouncing around making a lot of noise but not actually scum hunting.

VOTE: RadiantCowbell

[Mathilda]

I'm sorta not in the mood.

My immediate interpretation is that she's scum for it but I'm not positive.

That means nothing considering that you first picked on Elyse because 'her scum game scared you' and then later tried to justify voting for her again with "Elyse literally has not managed to make one post that hasn't triggered my scumdar." This demonstrates that you are picking targets you want rid of because you're scum, or if you are town then you only going by feelings and can't explain yourself to other people because you're not putting in the investigative work.

I'll deal with her later.

I'll make sure that you do.

[Mathilda]

Vote me or Mathilda today.

If you lynch me, lynch Mathilda tomorrow when you see I'm down.

I'm positive she's scum but I don't have the energy to push it through.

That sounds defensive to me in order to get me to back off.

[Mathilda]

(2)

Mathilda

— Aneninen, RadiantCowbells
(3)

Keyser Söze

— InputPrimary, Jake from State Farm, TheLhix
(1)

RadiantCowbells

— Mathilda

Your defensiveness is also rather premature RC. There is only one vote on you.

Keyser is in the lead with three votes. There are two votes on me.

[Mathilda]

This is about expressing the sincerity of my scumread on you and trying to get other townies to figure out how to understand you the way I understand you, instead of having to spell it out for them.

And what's wrong with spelling it out for people? Are we all meant to be mindreaders?

Here's your chance then. State your case. With post numbers. Feels are not enough. Explain why certain posts are scummy. Let us see your reasoning like Adenenin did.

Also while you're at it, state why you thought Elyse was scummy. Refer to specific posts to give us a chance to agree or disagree with you.

[Mathilda]

Of course I'm still also expecting a response to #416 explaining your posting history. Or wasn't that what you meant when you said that you would 'deal with me later' ?

[Mathilda]

Game aside RC, I'm very sorry to hear that. I'd take a break from playing Mafia if I was in that situation. The last thing you need is more stress.

[Mathilda]

Mathilda you are the one who is acting defensive right now.

How so?

[Mathilda]

I'd also like to point out that I haven't been interrogating Adeneneninein.

[Mathilda]

counting day 1 votes as evidence of calling someone defensive? please ... no one is in L2 / L3 its just about 1 - 2 - 3 votes ...

That's

exactly

my point! Which is why RC's post pings my radar. The following is something you say when you are at L-1 near the end of the day, not when you have one single vote against you early on day one.

Vote me or Mathilda today.

If you lynch me, lynch Mathilda tomorrow when you see I'm down.

[Mathilda]

Keyser has a behavioral pattern as scum were he stops providing content when in certain situations and the content he provides is lack luster and doesn't provide any push.

Have you been played in many games with Keyser in the past?

[Mathilda]

You're voting for yourself? That's such a scum tell. Complete LAMIST.

[Mathilda]

You're voting for yourself? That's such a scum tell. Complete LAMIST.

No it isn't.

Explain.

[Mathilda]

It's anti town. It's not alignment indicative

Sorry just read my question was already answered.

OK technically it is anti-town, yes, but in my experience the people that generally do lynch themselves

are

scum. I can't think of many, if any, instances where town have voted themselves.

Can anyone suggest a reason why they would do such a thing?

[Mathilda]

Yes

Why?

[Mathilda]

Ah yes...surface level...very subjective dont you think?....especially with the shit I dug up against Garmr. I suppose i could try harder, but as I have run out of lotion, I think I will do that in a few mins after desert.

I thought your case against Garmr was convincing and put you in my town list.

@RC, what do you think of Garmr?
@Garmr, what do you make of RC?

[Mathilda]

Why are you trying to get away from this 1v1 as soon as you realized just how far crowd mentality was away from you?

Who is that question directed at RC?

[Mathilda]

Why are you shifting focus to Garmr because everyone disliked your push?

I should still be scum, no?

Because if garmr is also scum, which could well be the case given TheLhix's analysis of him, then you two are probably scum buddies. So I want to know what you two are going to do when specifically asked about each other.

Are you going to bus each other? Be non-commital and read null? Or say that the other one is town?

When or if either one of you then flips red or makes a scum tell then it will provide useful information.

Several more questions for you though ...

Why shouldn't I focus on other potential scum?
How was I shifting focus? I was referring to you in every sentence.
Do you agree that looking at how people interact with one another is a useful way of spotting scum? (e.g distancing, consistent null reads etc).
Why aren't you answering any of my questions?
How do you read Garmr?

[Mathilda]

Also why should I care if people like my push or not?

[Mathilda]

Why shouldn't I focus on other potential scum?
How was I shifting focus? I was referring to you in every sentence.
Do you agree that looking at how people interact with one another is a useful way of spotting scum? (e.g distancing, consistent null reads etc).
Why aren't you answering any of my questions?
How do you read Garmr?

[Mathilda]

I'm not liking Mathilda much. It always pings my scumdar when someone decides to ISO someone else, calls out a few things as scummy, and then votes them. It reads more of "this person is scum -> let me try to back it up" rather than coming across a read organically.

The reason I decided to ISO RC was because he asked me what I made of his alignment #398.

<snip>
Where are you at on my alignment?

<snip>
I need to iso you before saying what I make of your alignment. I've been concentrating on other people for now but I'll pay more attention to you next.

Ironically, RC is now complaining that I am focusing on other people again.

[Mathilda]

Well considering that there's a real chance that I might be lynched, here's my read list:

Town:

Zoronos

- scum hunting from the very beginning

Zulfy

- I was dubious about him to begin with but he's started scum hunting. Has also questioned the witch hunt against Keyser whereas scum would prefer to encourage on the lynch wagon.

Aneninen

- Has been looking out for tells and trying to spot tone and behaviour consistent with scum

Keyser

- I wasn't reading scum on him and then he made a supposed scum slip in someone's paranoid eyes although I don't think it was. He then gave up posting and has asked to be replaced. He's always struck town me as town and I can empathise with getting tired of criticism for something that someone thinks is slightly out of the ordinary. I mean how are you supposed to react to someone saying that you and they are scum and you are the one that gets the shade? Yet the mob has collectively decided that he is the one who was suspicious with a single question regarding Lhix's crazy statement. I would have probably said something similar if it happened to me and the same thing would have happened to me. This is the worst thing about this forum. You all think that you're scum hunting but you're actually just comparing people against one particular way of playing and lynching people for it if they do not conform. This means that people start conforming over time. Players new to the forum (like me) then ping your scumdars when they express themselves freely. That's why I personally decided that you can stick your conformity where the compost is rich and continued playing as I want to. And that's why I am reading town on Keyser.

Lhix

- I was very dubious about him outing himself as scum along with Keyser but it would be a very ballsy move as scum and he has been actively scum hunting and analysing people's play. It's possible that the outing of Keyser was WIFOM but he would have to be very experienced and ballsy to do that as scum. But he did admit to outing himself as scum in the past in order to scumhunt so he would know whether or not he could get away with it as a WIFOM. But I will lean town on him for his other play since then.


Scum:

RadiantCowbells

- opportunistic voter who doesn't explain himself, doesn't answer questions and who decides beforehand who he wants to claim is scum and then finds a reason. All demonstrated in thread. I can't believe he's fooling anyone with his LAMIST. So maybe RC is just a regular anti-town player and you're all aware of that and I'm not. What happens with these people is that they get excused for being anti-town and no one really questions whether they are scum, even when they are scum. We each have an equal chance of being scum in this game. I firmly believe that we should lynch scum play regardless of meta.

Jake from state farm

- Active lurker who does not explain himself, absolutely no scum hunting, posts the minimum possible, sometimes, single word posts. This is not the Jake that I played with earlier. Defends RC saying that it's anti-town and not scum play and just accepts this rather than sees that it's a cause for further questioning. This is Day 1! We need to generate information. You take what little tell you're given and exploit it like Aneninen did with me. You don't just ignore it.

Garmr

- I liked Lhix's analysis, but this could also be just the result of Garmr not really being that interested in the game, so this is the weakest scum read that I have,

Null:
Everyone else.

[Mathilda]

What do you think about the keyser/lhix connection

Unfortunate. I think they're both town. It was a nice try and could have generated some good information if Keyser over reacted but he didn't. Instead it basically gave scum the opportunity to lynch town and get away with it.

Keyser did something unusual. Oooh! But it was an unusual question so of course what he did was only ever going to be unusual. Ask yourself what you would do if you were town and Lhix outed you as scum. Then ask yourself how other people could have made your response into a scum case against you. There was no right way to answer that outing from Lhix. There was only a wrong way.

[Mathilda]

Right now I'm feeling Mathilda scum. I get bad vibes from her posts, they're overly defensive and don't seem genuine.

So forget all the evidence I put forward and just focus on tone so you don't have to backup your own accusation. Got it.

This especially pinged me.

I started to then decided not to. I do understand why you and Aneninan say that. This is Day 1 so all we have to analyse is behaviour and tone. They're things to look out for but they don't build a case. I'm not interested in trying to appear town, I'm just interested in hunting out scum. If that means that I attract attention then I don't mind. It's ultimately all information for town.

Not caring how you appear to others is cool. Declaring how much you don't care how you appear to others, thus showing that you really do care, is scummy.

Where did I show that I do care about how I appear to others? Demonstrate this or be shown to be lying.

Post 416 is what really cinches it for me. There is no conviction behind it. There is little analysis, just statements of fact with some slight spin to make them appear scummy.

BS.

[Mathilda]

I note that both Keyser and Lhix are in Mathilda's town pile.

Well done. You can read a read list.

[Mathilda]

Post more tommorow spending this last day with my gf for a couple of months.

Fair enough excuse. This puts you as null on my read list and Input as third scum for his opportunistic vote basically parroting non-committal accusations.

[Mathilda]

Jake, my pronoun is she. Thanks.

[Mathilda]

Appreciated.

[Mathilda]

If lhix said I was scum with him then I'd ignore him because I know he's lying.

But then I could specifically ask you why you were avoiding such a significant post and state that it looked scummy. After all, this is what people do when they ask a question and it gets ignored.

[Mathilda]

Lhix - I was very dubious about him outing himself as scum along with Keyser but it would be a very ballsy move as scum

Given that lhix is banned as a troll account, does that change your opinion? troll accounts troll on purpose and claiming scum with their scum partners is something trolls do

I wasn't really sure what a troll account was. Thanks for clearing that up. I was confused because it wasn't like he was being obnoxious in thread or anything. If Lhix is a troll account and he has a history of outing fellow scum then doesn't this basically mean that the whole game has been ruined and might as well be abandoned?

[Mathilda]

Is it the same girl in the avatars of both Firebringer and RC? They're both wearing fake cat ears, have similar length hair and are carrying a teddy bear.

[Mathilda]

With a big swig from the stupid bottle Town decided that Keysor's response was the scummiest thing they ever did read while neglecting to acknowledge truly scummy posts that they made themselves.

Not all the townies.

[Mathilda]

I'm pretty sure that if Lhix were Scum he would have been insta-banned for it.

TheLhix got banned, but maybe regardless of this. The thread says "banned as a troll account".
That neither confirms nor denies anything about that post.

If Lhix is scum and outs a scumbuddy then that's an instant ban according to klingoncelt, and rightly so.

But if Lhix is town and outs someone else as a scumbuddy, regardless of their alignment, and does not get removed from the game then he has been mod confirmed as town.

The mod has no choice but to remove Lhix from the game regardless of his alignment. And it's only right that Lhix is banned for it otherwise that could also be construed as confirmation of his slot's alignment by the site mods.

And why have we forgotten about Mathilda, by the way?

I'm now a has-been

[Mathilda]

You love doing housework??

[Mathilda]

Well I'm now leaning Garmr as town. He did not have to tell us that Lhix had trolled him as well. I certainly missed it, Lhix's comment about fairy dogs was just odd when I read it. If Garmr was scum it would have been easier to hope that no one spotted it than to invite scrutiny.

And if Lhix was scum outing a fellow scumbuddy then why go on to try and analyse Garmr's alignment in #491?

Basically I think we should just ignore what Lhix has said. His being banned or him trolling says nothing about his alignment and therefore we cannot know whether or not he was either scum outing fellow scumbuddies, scum throwing himself and townies under a bus or town trolling / testing for reactions.

[Mathilda]

Scums can get annoyed when they're caught for wrong reasons...

This is true but if this is why Firebringer is annoyed then it tells us that Jake's argument is probably wrong.

If Firebringer did make a genuine scum slip and knows it then he will be arguing with different motivations.

And then there is the third possibility and Firebringer is town, knows that he is replacing into a slot that is under some pressure and is fresh for a fight. Or is looking at town with fresh eyes and considers that the faction to be dysfunctional.

The difference in tone will be subtle though so I don't know whether we will be able to spot it or not.

I know that when I've been caught for the wrong reasons I do get frustrated because it means all my hard work in appearing town has been for nothing, but it also means that I have a chance to save myself so I try damn hard to make sure that I do. If I have made a scum slip and know it then I try not to draw attention to it and hope that it gets forgotten. Or I come up with a plausible excuse. Or failing that I accept that I am going to be lynched and use it to my advantage. I've only replaced in once to a game and the slot was top of a lynch wagon. I just ignored it and started playing normally. The lynch wagon disappeared. But that's just me and I can't assume that everyone plays like I do.

[Mathilda]

Meanwhile, let's listen to some music, shall we?

HbAb
||: F...F...F......F
F.F.Ab-FBb......HbAb | (repeat infinite times)

Would it make a good door chime?

[Mathilda]

Much to my dismay Mathilda doesn't seem to be happening Today so it's high time to find a better place for my vote.

That's because you never had a case against me. All you ever had was that my tone seemed off to you and I even agreed that I could understand why you said that. But now there's a whole load more information and potential scum slips to work with but your confirmation bias, an emotional attachment to lynching me has not been revised accordingly.

Please go ahead and state a case to all the new players that have joined recently as to why I am scum.

[Mathilda]

Math - Who do you feel is the scum, and can you explain the case to me for why that person / people are scum?

RadiantCowbell first got my attention because of his opportunistic vote on me. By that I mean he was sheeping someone else doing the scum hunting so he could also look pro-active. Notice that I don't think Aneninen is scum who is just as adamant as RC that I am scum? That's because Aneninen was actually scum hunting. RC never did any scum hunting. He just picked people he wanted to vote on and then found a reason over time (e.g. Elyse, me etc). RC also refuses to answer any of my questions. Why is that? As far as I can see it's to avoid further suspicion.

InputPrimary also came to my attention with an opportunistic vote on me similar to RC. Again he's like the two above in that he doesn't lay out a logical case for why he thinks someone is scum, he just parrots the same vague popular accusations as everyone else.

Jake is an active lurker who is trying to keep his head down and not commit himself like he normally does when he scum hunts. He doesn't bother to explain himself and isn't interested in hearing alternatives. That could be anti-town play but it's also a useful tactic as scum because it means that he's not letting his reads be scrutinised. It allows him to cast shade as and when he pleases. Yes I get that he said that he's going to play differently this time, and frankly that's quite a relief. And he also said that he posts on the phone. But even when your posts are limited to one sentence, you can still make probing questions.

If there is one person I would replace with someone else from my scum list then it would have to be Jake because he did probe Fire, he did say beforehand that he's trying to play differently this game and he is posting on a phone. RC and Input have no excuse though.

All this talk of town's scum hunting being illogical, about being absolutely sure who is scum and all that's needed now is to find the last one, all the people repeating their accusations over and over without any analysis or discussion just to try and cast enough shade ... as far as I can see is all done by the three people above. These are the ones trying to bulldoze town into lynching people of their own choice. Absolutely everyone else has tried being logical, tried discussing things and more importantly tried to help the town scum hunting process along rather than sway people's opinions just by repeating unsubstantiated feelings. This is how we achieve a correct lynch and avoid mislynches.

The three newcomers all seem logical to me and are trying to sniff out scum. Zulfy does, Garmr too now that he's active again, you certainly do Zoronos and Aneninen as well even though he's only looking out for tone. Although Scorpious is a bit of a lurker, I need to ISO him and give you a better analysis of him before I give an opinion.

[Mathilda]

Meanwhile, let's listen to some music, shall we?

HbAb
||: F...F...F......F
F.F.Ab-FBb......HbAb | (repeat infinite times)

What is H flat? The scale only goes to G.

Isn't that what the Germans call G#?

[Mathilda]

That's because you never had a case against me. All you ever had was that my tone seemed off to you and I even agreed that I could understand why you said that. But now there's a whole load more information and potential scum slips to work with but your confirmation bias, an emotional attachment to lynching me has not been revised accordingly.
Please go ahead and state a case to all the new players that have joined recently as to why I am scum.

I know I'll never be amongst your favorites to play with, but this has just been a Miss Marple tell.
I saw this "build a better case instead of tunnelling" kind of attitude from someone on early-Day1. He flipped scum.
You're doing the same. Therefore, I think you're scum.

What will you think when it turns out that I am town? How will you then re-interpret that paragraph?

Have you ever played with RC before? Trust me, he

looks

like a bad player but he's a fierce enemy if your alignment doesn't match his.
Also, here you told that I'm scumhunting. Above you told I hadn't been able to build up a case against you. So, am I scumhunting or not?

If RC is a fierce enemy then that makes me even more sure that he is scum because he's certainly not a pro-town scum hunter in this game.

I haven't played with RC before and maybe it is as he says that he just can't find the energy to play at the moment so this game is unrepresentative of his normal play style. This doesn't change the fact that he has been LAMISTy by self voting and trying to get people to vote for him, opportunistically sheeping and evasive.

Also, here you told that I'm scumhunting. Above you told I hadn't been able to build up a case against you. So, am I scumhunting or not?

You're scum hunting by looking at tone and how people phrase things but those are just circumstantial clues. You don't have anything specific to go on except your subjective feelings. And those are unreliable. It's difficult to build a case that convinces other people if all you have are general impressions because their impressions will be different, being subjective and all. If you can point to specific scum tells or lies on the other hand then that's something completely different. For example, Jake has made a case against Fire. He has something specific he can point to. There are specific posts and accusations that I can point to with regard to RC.

Jake is an active lurker...

A WHUT????

An active lurker actively watches the thread but doesn't post anything of substance. So they look like they are an active presence but they are not scum hunting. Posting generates information and allows people to scrutinise you, which is bad for scum. But scum also need to know whether they should defend themselves so they actively watch the thread for any accusations.

[Mathilda]

Oh, and my intuition feels something terrible. What if we're in a 9:2:2?

Anything's possible, but why is your intuition suggesting this scenario?

I don't want to talk about it yet, but some interaction patterns suggest me that the game may be a Multi. We'll know it better Tomorrow, I guess.

By that you mean a game with more than two factions? In other words that we have an independent?

[Mathilda]

You're scum hunting by looking at tone and how people phrase things but those are just circumstantial clues. You don't have anything specific to go on except your subjective feelings. And those are unreliable.

It's not only the tone. Posting style and other things matter too. For example, you're focusing much more on me than on anyone else. This is even stranger because (1) you aren't scumreading me and (2) I'm not even voting for you right now. Townies are much less anxious abouth being scumread as long as the majority is unwilling to follow the case.

I'm not focusing on you. I'm answering specific questions from you. I don't like to ignore people because they'll always remind me afterwards and then I have to explain myself.

Mathilda you may not have been in a Multiball before.
As for Mini Normals, the possibilities are:

(1) two group scum factions, 2 members each – These are usually called Mafia and Werewolves or "Red Mafia" and "Blue Mafia", etc. That's 9:2:2

(2) a Mafia group and a Serial Killer – the latter one is self-aligned, can only win if everyone else's out, but usually has some good powers eg. being Bulletproof or Investigation Proof or whatever. The former one usually consists of 2 members, in this case the Setup is 10:2:1. Sometimes the scum faction consists of 3 members – 9:3:1 –, but it's really, really hard to balance a 9:3:1. (Many mods think it's simply unfair for the town.)

Of course I have no

proof

that it's a Multi, but I won't be surprised at all if there are going to be more than one Nightkills.

Thanks for that. I didn't know. This is my first non-newbie game.

[Mathilda]

The more suspicious you are of RC the keener he is to see you lynched.

I'm sorta not in the mood.

My immediate interpretation is that she's scum for it but I'm not positive.

I'll deal with her later.

Vote me or Mathilda today.

If you lynch me, lynch Mathilda tomorrow when you see I'm down.

I'm positive she's scum but I don't have the energy to push it through.

What changed here?

I voted for RC in-between those two posts.

If RC is a fierce enemy then that makes me even more sure that he is scum because he's certainly not a pro-town scum hunter in this game.

VOTE: Mathilda

No unvote, no deviation. this gets lynched.

[Mathilda]

Apologies, just checked the vote count afterwards and I had voted for RC before his first post quoted above.

[Mathilda]

I believe your claim right now. You chose a good target. The only thing that bothers me is had you died, there's no way we would have known you visited Mathilda considering you called her pretty damn town in your last post.

True but if Zulfy had said that if he died that night then I was scum then they might have guessed that he was a hider. There aren't too many standard abilities that die when they target scum. I'm trying to think of another one at the moment. If scum guessed that he was hiding behind me then they would have killed me and taken out two townies.

[Mathilda]

I've been catching up on the thread keeping a lookout for anyone who disbelieves Zulfy's hider claim. It's one thing to accept the claim by default until further evidence turns up, but another thing entirely to cast doubt on the claim from the outset.

This is because from scum's perspective, the hider is difficult to kill. They can't deliberately aim for the hider at night, they can only hope that they kill someone that the hider is targetting that night. And if they target anyone who has been cleared by the hider then they lose that chance. So the longer the hider stays alive the smaller the pool of suspects become.

These two posts that jump out at me as suspicious:

I am somewhat skeptical about a hider, but I guess that's setup speculation and can wait for later.

What?? We know nothing about any other role in this game but for some reason the hider role makes you "skeptical"?

+2 for that one. Good grief. You believe me tho, right?

*facepalm*
Think a little harder.

(No, I don't necessarily believe you, hence the point of expressing skepticism)

Mathilda is now confirmed town. I am actually hider.

Hider is kind of a strange claim for a small simple game like this. More often then not people have fake claimed hider then there have actually been hiders. Sounds like a convenient cover up for a strange first claim.

Mathilda is now confirmed town. I am actually hider.

This claim is not confirmed. Mathilda's alignment is confirmed only after Zulfy's flipped. Zulfy's alignment tells onthing about Mathilda.
Although at this point I don't think we should lynch Zulfy, if he's telling the truth, the loss is bigger than the gain if he's lying. Although... but we'll see what's happening.

Aneninen, I like what you're saying with regard to me not being confirmed until Zulfy has flipped and that we should not lynch Zulfy. But surely Zulfy's alignment does tell us something about me. If Zulfy is town then he's telling the truth about being a hider and about hiding behind me. If Zulfy is scum and lying about being a hider then it looks suspicious on me.

[Mathilda]

Mathilda, there's a high chance you're the night kill tonight. Please give me all your possible thoughts on the game. I chose you for a reason.

Well I was wrong about RC and that's made me revise my read on Jake, who is definitely playing more pro-town now. I was curious as to why he has suddenly eased off on Firebringer but he did say in #993 that we can worry about him later. So I'm upgrading Jake to Null.

But as far as Firebringer goes, the main concern I have is how annoyed they were of Jake, and as Aneninen points out, scum can get annoyed when voted for the wrong reasons. I know I certainly do #712.

This leaves InputPrimary as my remaining suspect.

I'm not really seeing why people are so keen on lynching either Suzune or klingoncelt. I don't think that Lhix's actions should be the reason for lynching Suzune. If I had to place a bet on Lhix's alignment then it would actually be town. My feelings are that he used outing himself and Keyser as a means of investigation of Keyser as he later claimed but without fully realising the how it forces the mod's hand in confirming him as town. And I still don't think that Keyser's reaction to Lhix warrants us lynching that slot today.

What's more interesting though is to see who is pushing for us to lynch either of those two. Because these Suzune and Klingoncelt are both easy lynches.

Who are the main pushers of these two?

Elyse #951 who would prefer to lynch Klingoncelt because Suzune is more pro-town but earlier says that Suzune is scum (or was this sarcasm?) #934 but also thinks that if Klingoncelt is scum then so is Suzune #928.

Input #960 who thinks that we need to lynch either of these two in order to move on with the game.

Jake who expresses the same sentiment, but wants to get rid of one of these two in order to get Fire #918. Personally if I was most confident about Fire then I'd vote Fire. If we do lynch either Klingoncelt or Suzune, aren't we then just going to lynch the other one as well in most cases?

Garmr #940 who just sees Suzune as straight up scum without any explanation but only a little while earlier expresses doubt because Lhix played seriously after he gave up trolling #924. That's quite a change around.

[Mathilda]

The other only gets lynched with a scum flip, a town flip means lhix was trolling in another way

If we lynch Suzune / Lhix and the slot is scum then there will be people arguing to lynch Klingoncelt / Keyser even though Lhix was later pretending to hunt scum. And if Klingoncelt / Keyser flips scum then people will still call for Suzune to be lynched.

If Suzune / Lhix flips town then that still leaves Keyser's supposed scum-slip so people will still try to lynch Klingoncelt.

If we lynch Klingoncelt / Keyser and the slot is town then this doesn't tell us anything about Suzune's alignment.

Imagine Lhix hadn't been banned on the first day and instead we lynched Keyser and he flipped green. At that point Lhix was playing more seriously, and enough people were suspicious of Keyser's supposed scum slip. Lhix had a valid excuse for avoiding a lynch.

I think if we are going to lynch either Klingoncelt or Suzune, it should be based on what they themselves have said not their predecessors. I would find that far more convincing.

[Mathilda]

Klingoncelt--Is probably right for the lynch.

Can you elaborate on this please? Thanks.

[Mathilda]

Zulfy, on the other hand, is looking like the scummiest Scum that ever scummed.

VOTE: Zulfy

Would scum benefit from claiming day-vig? On the one hand they can distract any protective roles so they can increase the chance that the night kill succeeds. But the chance of a protective role choosing the same target on night 1 when no one has claimed is slim. Whereas the chance of someone claiming day-vig being investigated is quite high, so it's a high risk strategy with a low chance of reward.

And then at the beginning of the day Zulfy immediately admitted that he is a hider. So any investigative role that got a result on him the night before would know if he was lying.

Why would scum do this?

[Mathilda]

Mathilda, there's a high chance you're the night kill tonight. Please give me all your possible thoughts on the game. I chose you for a reason.

without any explanation but only a little while earlier expresses doubt because Lhix played seriously after he gave up trolling #924. That's quite a change around.

Simple suzane trying to deny the hider so fiercely just rings scum. I can understand doubt but this is scum flat out trying to get people to doubt the claim. Sometimes one action can change ones views on someone drastically.

Fair enough. I was on the lookout myself for anyone who reacted strongly against the hider claim in #959. Hiders are difficult to kill.

[Mathilda]

You're new, aren't you?

Only to this forum and the way things are done here. I have played a lot of Mafia on other forums.

The only investigatives that would get a result would be Role Cop, Watcher, or Tracker. And they'd have to target him. (Well, the Watcher would have to target you.)

You forget about alignment cop. Role cops are more likely to be scum anyway.

Also remember that Zulfy claimed hider early on after the day started. If any of those roles you mentioned, also including voyeur, motion detector and follower, targetted a claimed hider and got a result back then they would know that Zulfy was lying.

Investigatives are generally supposed to keep their results quiet until they have 2 guilties, until they're at L-1, or until they're CC'd. (The problem with this is that the investigators are often NK'd before they can spill the beans.)

Supposed to? Sounds like it's best for an investigative role has a guilty read on just one person if they are likely to die before revealing any information.

So even if someone found him not doing what he said, odds are Town won't find out, and if they do he can lie and say it was some sort of gambit.

You're making a lot of assumptions about how everyone plays Mafia, even on mafiascum.

[Mathilda]

Sorry should have said

Sounds like it's best for an investigative role to claim if they have a guilty read on just one person if they are likely to die before revealing any information.

[Mathilda]

VOTE: Klingoncelt

I'm not buying her explanation for the vote on Zulfy. It seems contrived to achieve a lynch and throw suspicion onto someone else. This is totally different from how she has been playing since joining the game.

This puts her at L-1 I think.

[Mathilda]

Suzune is now at L-1.

[Mathilda]

Well, I have to assume my gambit worked since we no killed last night.
I was softing a PR as loud as I could yesterday to pull the NK.
I do have a PR. It was Bulletproof.

Can you point out where you soft claimed a PR please?

Thanks

[Mathilda]

Math, why does he need to point that out?

Because it will help confirm whether he is town.

[Mathilda]

One thing that worries me about the lynch wagon on Suzune is that we are assuming that Lhix's motivation was solely to troll by outing his own team mates. He could have been throwing himself and two other townies under a bus. After all, he heavily hinted that Garmr was scum yet Garmr created the lynch wagon against Klingoncelt / Keyser.

Could it be that Lhix decided to make his slot expendable from the very beginning to not only get a load of townies mislynched but some scum confirmed as town? Why troll us in that way and then try to appear to be scum hunting?

Do we have a case against Suzune other than Lhix's trolling?

[Mathilda]

He could have been throwing himself and two other townies under a bus.

if keyer's slot didn't filp scum than maybe you have a point, but keyser's slot flipped scum. So imo it's either A. they are scum together or B. he got lucky as shit

I'm going with option A

Fair enough. Due to the absence of information the only thing we can really use is the balance of probability.

So unless anyone has any objections I announce an intention to hammer Suzune.

Either way this should give us some information as to Lhix's motivations.

[Mathilda]

Bolded the relevant part of Zulfy's post, and my response.
Bulletproof and Hider don't play great together, since unless scum have a Strongman it gives a 'free' confirm if the Hider jumps behind the BP early.

It's also not a hard alignment confirm on me regardless, but it's good idea long term after a no-kill night to reveal, so I revealed.

Thank you. That's very interesting.

Do you think that there is a probability that Zulfy might be lying and is actually scum?

[Mathilda]

a) He's faking a cop claim, and an actual town investigative hasn't counterclaimed him.

I assume what you mean by this is that there can only be one investigative role in the game, including hider?

I get the sense that there's some format out there that this game is following that I am not aware of.

[Mathilda]

VOTE: suzanne

My hammer was ninja'd!

[Mathilda]

Vanilla

I am a watcher.

I targetted Zulfy the first night and no one visited him. I would have thought that I would have had "No results" but technically it is true if he is a hider. No one would have visited him.

I watched InputPrimary last night and Garmr visited him. No one else.

VOTE: Garmr

[Mathilda]

I think scum did a Sterling job despite being dealt a bad hand because of that stupid Lhix troll. The cards were stacked against you.

So far I've played four games on this forum. The last two have been ruined. My previous game ended 2 1/2 hours after it started before I even had a chance to say anything. I signed up for other games when I signed up for this one but only heard back from Yimmy.

Let's keep in mind that Lhix is the arse that ruined this game.