Mini 1741: Day 3

[Garmr]

I'm a bit iffy with keyser at the moment since he did just beat me in a game he we just finished as mafia. I am pretty curious to the reaction to his wagon when he comes back. I honestly don't know what to think of Lhix so I am going to sideline that for now and get back to that latter. But after isoing keyser it came to my attention that he hasn't actually been showing active scum hunting. I don't like how in 71 he answer for frozen angel either I was putting that out there so she can answer it. I would expect town keyser to come back in post 170 and be trying to hunt but he continues trying to brush it off.

[Jake from State Farm]

@keyser, pardon me if this was asked/answered already. Why did you ask link about his experience after he claimed he was scum with you? I don't understand the point of such a question

[Garmr]

By the way, I won't be making a roleclaim unless the mod confirms the rule regarding claiming scum with another player.

looking at the game and site rules, there is no such rule. Unless it is disguised as something else but a search for the word "scum" or "claim" yielded no results

Hope you don't mind stealing this quote from you.

By the way, I won't be making a roleclaim unless the mod confirms the rule regarding claiming scum with another player.

This is suss as fuck. It makes me feel like you are practically confirming that you are buddies. If your doing it to smear lynx or if lynx is really your buddy there's one for sure your scum.

VOTE: keyser

[Garmr]

^that's l-1 right

[Frozen Angel]

well I just catched up.

Its look like there is huge wagon going against keyser already ... well I'm playing an ongoing game with him. He is not playing like the way he was playing there. but thats an ongoing game, lets not talk about it

By the way, I won't be making a roleclaim unless the mod confirms the rule regarding claiming scum with another player. If I do roleclaim, we will likely be lynching someone on my wagon.

is this a soft claim? :/ ?

[Mathilda]

By the way, I won't be making a roleclaim unless the mod confirms the rule regarding claiming scum with another player. If I do roleclaim, we will likely be lynching someone on my wagon.

Well if it comes to that, then for future reference, ignoring random votes the wagon is / has been:

TheLhix #45
RadiantCowbells #79
TheLhix #83
RadiantCowbells 140
TheLhix #143
InputPrimary #160
Jake from State Farm #167

Although I do note that you are now effectively soft claiming something more important than a VT which is suspicious. There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet.

[Frozen Angel]

I want to know what are your current reads keysar ...

[Jake from State Farm]

Hope you don't mind stealing this quote from you.

yeah go for it

[Zoronos]

I don't know. Perhaps I'll know more after reading some of the forthcoming posts.

I ask because one of his (her?) earlier posts struck me as a bit off-putting and I'd like to know if you saw the same / felt the same way. It was an early post though, so it may have been nothing.
Can you expand on this thought at all?

[Aneninen]

WTF this amount of posts?!

[Aneninen]

The way he took the pressure in his stride. But particularly the comment out of breaking us out of RVS.

Why is breaking the RVS a tell? As for the pressure on him, I don't think I agree.

By the way, I won't be making a roleclaim unless the mod confirms the rule regarding claiming scum with another player. If I do roleclaim, we will likely be lynching someone on my wagon.

That doesn't add up. Or I'm dumb. Or both.

Although I do note that you are now effectively soft claiming something more important than a VT which is suspicious. There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet.

Whut?!
The way he took the pressure (see above) first and "something more important than a VT which is suspicious. There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet" ???

NoNoNONONO

NO

.

Also, quite a few things in your ISO don't add up at all.
Eg. the end of 148 (also my question posted there has been unanswered), the whole 150 (meanwhile, so forgiving as for Keyser), and 180, where the same pattern can be found as in 148:

PlayerX must be town because of [thing] BUT because of [another thing] could be scum.

Her reads don't seem to boil down to anything.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Mathilde

I ask because one of his (her?) earlier posts struck me as a bit off-putting and I'd like to know if you saw the same / felt the same way. It was an early post though, so it may have been nothing.
Can you expand on this thought at all?

I think it has been answered.

[Mathilda]

The way he took the pressure in his stride. But particularly the comment out of breaking us out of RVS.

Why is breaking the RVS a tell? As for the pressure on him, I don't think I agree.

Although I do note that you are now effectively soft claiming something more important than a VT which is suspicious. There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet.

Whut?!
The way he took the pressure (see above) first and "something more important than a VT which is suspicious. There hasn't been that much pressure on you yet" ???

NoNoNONONO

NO

.

It's in scum's interest to spend longer in RVS because it is not possible to hunt scum when no one can take your vote seriously. This is because it does not assert any pressure on the recipient. The more time that is spend on scum hunting the harder it is to avoid suspicion. So someone who breaks us out of RVS is in my opinion playing pro-town. Now you can argue that scum could go about hiding by play pro-town but in my experience people remember suspicious behaviour more than they remember how other people played pro-town.

With regard to pressure, you have to take things within context. At the beginning of the thread there is very little to go on because there is very little information available. So there is only so much pressure that can be applied. This limits how confident you can be with your reads. My initial impressions were that Keyser handled the relative pressure that was available reasonably well

considering that the game had only just started

.

Soft claiming though, which is quite a major step to be done much later in the game when you think that there is a real danger of being lynched, was premature.

Her reads don't seem to boil down to anything.

Are you suggesting that I should be utterly confident in my reads this early in the game and unwilling to entertain all possibilities or to change my mind?

[Zoronos]

@Anen
Hmmm... that is not what I was seeing from Math that was making me suspicious.
I was wondering / hoping if you saw the same thing I did, which would give me some confidence I wasn't keying onto noise. But you did not.

[Jake from State Farm]

It's in scum's interest to spend longer in RVS because it is not possible to hunt scum

people still think this?

[Mathilda]

@Anen
Hmmm... that is not what I was seeing from Math that was making me suspicious.
I was wondering / hoping if you saw the same thing I did, which would give me some confidence I wasn't keying onto noise. But you did not.

I would be interested to hear what you found suspicious about me.

[Mathilda]

It's in scum's interest to spend longer in RVS because it is not possible to hunt scum

people still think this?

Well it's certainly in their interest to hamper town's ability to scum hunt effectively, however they do it. Keeping town in RVS for longer is just one method at their disposal, admittedly not necessarily the most nuanced or effective.

[Zoronos]

@Anen
Hmmm... that is not what I was seeing from Math that was making me suspicious.
I was wondering / hoping if you saw the same thing I did, which would give me some confidence I wasn't keying onto noise. But you did not.

I would be interested to hear what you found suspicious about me.

I disliked this post:

That suggests to me that both you and Zulfy are playing pro-town, and you at least are more likely to be town (which isn't saying much at this point in the game when there is no information to go). Scum hide best in the long term when they are considered to be scum hunting but they try to avoid drawing suspicion on themselves and certainly won't do that in order to help town.

a) Those pronouncements of pro-town play seemed out of line with actions. I don't think Zulfy was playing pro-town, so coming up with a town read on him / her at that juncture struck me as not in line with the facts (aka maybe scum with bonus info).
b) I find 'Scum would play like x' posts made in a vacuum to be mildly suspicious. Speculation about play vs 'Scum play like X and person Y is doing that ergo Y is scum'. The later is towny, and the former scummy. (I hope I am communicating this well, if it is confusing let me know.)

It's a bit thin, so I was wondering if anyone else was seeing the same thing, or if I was jumping at a shadow.

[Mathilda]

I disliked this post:

That suggests to me that both you and Zulfy are playing pro-town, and you at least are more likely to be town (which isn't saying much at this point in the game when there is no information to go). Scum hide best in the long term when they are considered to be scum hunting but they try to avoid drawing suspicion on themselves and certainly won't do that in order to help town.

a) Those pronouncements of pro-town play seemed out of line with actions. I don't think Zulfy was playing pro-town, so coming up with a town read on him / her at that juncture struck me as not in line with the facts (aka maybe scum with bonus info).
b) I find 'Scum would play like x' posts made in a vacuum to be mildly suspicious. Speculation about play vs 'Scum play like X and person Y is doing that ergo Y is scum'. The later is towny, and the former scummy. (I hope I am communicating this well, if it is confusing let me know.)

It's a bit thin, so I was wondering if anyone else was seeing the same thing, or if I was jumping at a shadow.

Well all I can talk about is experience of what works from being a mediocre fish in a rather small pond. Different strategies evolve in different forums. This forum is certainly different to what I am used to and I am still finding my feet.

Zulfry quickly became scummy after those posts, but performing his first random vote and then changing it 7 minutes later when he didn't need to right at the beginning of the game to get the conversation started in my own personal humble opinion is a pro-town move. Regardless of where you play, town always starts day 1 with very little or no information and needs to generate it by whatever means necessary.

[Scorpious]

up to 66

I don't Like how easy Ice changed her vote after stating why she wasn't voting..

[Frozen Angel]

up to 66

I don't Like how easy Ice changed her vote after stating why she wasn't voting..

I stated my reason and it stands valid even right now.

[Zoronos]

Well all I can talk about is experience of what works from being a mediocre fish in a rather small pond. Different strategies evolve in different forums. This forum is certainly different to what I am used to and I am still finding my feet.

Zulfry quickly became scummy after those posts, but performing his first random vote and then changing it 7 minutes later when he didn't need to right at the beginning of the game to get the conversation started in my own personal humble opinion is a pro-town move. Regardless of where you play, town always starts day 1 with very little or no information and needs to generate it by whatever means necessary.

I was afraid I was communicating poorly, and I think that fear has been realized. I think you'ved missed my point. I'm not saying your experiences are wrong, I'm saying how you used / expressed them was scummy.
To give an example to make this clearer:
"I have seen scum lurk before, because it means they don't have to post / scum hunt, and Input is lurking. Ergo, Input is scum" <- This is a towny comment. (Disclaimer: I chose a random name, please do not construe this as an actual judgement).
"Scum tend to lurk!" <- Scummy comment; it's active-lurking. It looks like scum hunting, but doesn't identify specific scum in this case, so is a good way to appear to scum hunt without actually doing so (hence scumminess).

Anyway, it was probably not useful to clarify since we've moved on from that point and you're actually making judgements about people now but w/e. For posterity.

So, why do you think Zulfry is scummy?

[Mathilda]

I was afraid I was communicating poorly, and I think that fear has been realized. I think you'ved missed my point. I'm not saying your experiences are wrong, I'm saying how you used / expressed them was scummy.
To give an example to make this clearer:
"I have seen scum lurk before, because it means they don't have to post / scum hunt, and Input is lurking. Ergo, Input is scum" <- This is a towny comment. (Disclaimer: I chose a random name, please do not construe this as an actual judgement).
"Scum tend to lurk!" <- Scummy comment; it's active-lurking. It looks like scum hunting, but doesn't identify specific scum in this case, so is a good way to appear to scum hunt without actually doing so (hence scumminess).

Ah fair enough. Like referring to town and mafia rather than them and us. And talking about generic game mechanics rather than scum hunting. It's just how I think of the game, in terms of mechanics. I love designing my own games and thinking about strategy. I pay attention to how I express myself when I am scum because I know that that's what really alerts people. In this game I'm just out to enjoy myself. I've been scum in the last four games I've played (three on another forum) and it really wore me down so I'm just happy to be town this time round and trying to figure things out.

So, why do you think Zulfry is scummy?

His play since that consecutive vote is not consistent with his excuse for getting us beyond RVS. He hasn't really been analysing what people say and looking for any tells, which he would if his initial excuse for two consecutive votes was genuine. And above all, stating an intent to hammer at this stage of the game when someone isn't even at L-1.

[Zoronos]

His play since that consecutive vote is not consistent with his excuse for getting us beyond RVS. He hasn't really been analysing what people say and looking for any tells, which he would if his initial excuse for two consecutive votes was genuine. And above all, stating an intent to hammer at this stage of the game when someone isn't even at L-1.

What did you think about what Lhinx wrote about KS scum slipping?
143 / 145

[Scorpious]

ok page 5 made my head hurt.. moving on

[TheLhix]

His play since that consecutive vote is not consistent with his excuse for getting us beyond RVS. He hasn't really been analysing what people say and looking for any tells, which he would if his initial excuse for two consecutive votes was genuine. And above all, stating an intent to hammer at this stage of the game when someone isn't even at L-1.

What did you think about what Lhinx wrote about KS scum slipping?
143 / 145

I have actually explained everything, including the "intent to hammer" and scum-baiting. As I said, it was meant to bring out something with substance to analyze (as everyone is doing now) including the false votes. I explained this several pages back in great detail. I would argue the efforts of such have brought us to this point, even when we were still muddling around in RVS stage. You can reread my explanation if you wish, but it feels like my words are being glossed over.