Mini 1755: Game Over

[RadiantCowbells]

UNVOTE:

where's my pie.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm subbing into this game with my only stake in the Performer wagon being that I know that she was town and I tried to push her for the entirety of 1740.

It's going to take a little more than that to make me vote her.

[RadiantCowbells]

I haven't even read anything outside of this page yet.

Hold your horses.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright. I have time and will reread now.

More @ 11.

[RadiantCowbells]

Raskol wagon was interesting to say the least.

[RadiantCowbells]

I still haven't fully caught up.

Urgh.

Not sure if I support this or not at this poitn.

[RadiantCowbells]

blehh.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is being very insightful

you stop it I'm in appointments to look into my acid reflux this weekend I don't have time to read atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

RC is being very insightful

and active lurky.

well yeah I haven't read past 20 pages at this point so I'm just popping in to say hi.

Sorry :S

[RadiantCowbells]

Uh, so I'm going to need to be force replaced most likely.

Love you all!

[RadiantCowbells]

Nevermind, I was unintentionally spoiled on a game that I'm not playing in.

Allelujah.

[RadiantCowbells]

PK, you told me to vote Performer and I pointed out that he's a frequent mislynch.

Now you're saying that I'm shit for it.

Explain this one to me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll finish reading this now and come up with a reads list.

[RadiantCowbells]

Bud I have 2 midterms this saturday.

You know perfectly well that I'm not a useless lurksack. I will pull myself up from my bootstraps and participate as soon as I am able.

Which is, as it happens, now.

[RadiantCowbells]

What the fuckity fuck is that HEY MASSIVE IS SCUM BUT WAIT IM VOTING PISSKOP?

[RadiantCowbells]

Umm.

Is Ircher trying to scumclaim?

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I'm not even sure how I'm supposed to react here.

[RadiantCowbells]

I mean I'm just wtfing here.

[RadiantCowbells]

VOTE: Ircher

Can't not do this.

[RadiantCowbells]

It can look bad all it wants.
I'm town. That doesn't feel bad!noob that feels bad!scummy.
I want a response.

[RadiantCowbells]

No, I'm in fact quite happy with my current vote.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't like the way she kept jumping on and off the Raskol wagon.

Not the only thing I dislike tbh.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ircher has some good stuff around the actual lynch though.

It doesn't outweigh the NKA on AI being targeted nor the other stuff which is utter crap.

[RadiantCowbells]

y u back down tho

[RadiantCowbells]

Ircher if PK is scum you giving him all day to answer your questions ain't gonna help

Smack him around, make him talk. get him lynched if he doesn't.

that's how you play mafai.

[RadiantCowbells]

Umm.

Is Ircher trying to scumclaim?

Frequently ?

What????
I know I did it last game (in Sig) during LyLo, but I have done none of that sort this game.

From some POV there are serious problems with things you say.

Cowbells for instance I think has a problem with this

I am 95% confident Massive is scum after that ridiculous hammer.


VOTE: Pisskop

Town.. typically.. find then lunch scum. (95% is rather lot... of confidence)
Bad Scum >can< messup by pretending to find scum then voting whoever they fecking well find expedient.

and from the outside please examine what you just did...
(no dont explain yourself to me... I am not voting you.)

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>AT TIMES<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
Town can think they have found scum but be looking under other rocks.
or be looking sideways under some other rock while driving their main scum lynch/read.
In my experience they don't

usually

look like your, 1287.

However in order to read Ircher this game I have had to throw out "usually"
and read you as you, not by my

usual

playbook.

You say that like you're near positive that he's town. why?

[RadiantCowbells]

I think you may be a scumbumble.

Do you think that

I

am a scumbumble or do you think that usually a person doing what I'm doing here would be a scumbumble.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am thinking, PK.
I want to leave my vote down and watch the game progress.
You will hear more for me when the time comes.

[RadiantCowbells]

Scum!RC would have no issues producing content here and I think you know that.

[RadiantCowbells]

I have read all of the game.

I don't like the way she dealt with the Raskol wagon.

I'm happy with the vote atm.

[RadiantCowbells]

Ircher, let's try this.

Why should I believe that you're town?

[RadiantCowbells]

Let's say that

PK
RC
Ircher
Axle
Boon

are town.

That leaves?

[RadiantCowbells]

Utl, Massive, Rob, Heat.

[RadiantCowbells]

Can you get an avatar please?

[RadiantCowbells]

tell you what.

if you get an avatar I won't call you she for the rest of the game.

deal?

[RadiantCowbells]

Pisskop, we can deal with RC together if we need a push. I'm definitely down to push massive.

VOTE: massive

You could stand to be a lot friendlier :\

[RadiantCowbells]

guess you're still mad over the game where I mislynched you instead of Klingy.

oh wellz.

[RadiantCowbells]

Alright.

Thinkerinoing is done.

VOTE: UpTooLate

[RadiantCowbells]

I did a ton of research on his meta after the last game we played where I mislynched him.

I'm quite confident that he's town in this game.

fwiw I'm not townreading you all that much.

[RadiantCowbells]

strong pick for scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

mostly PoE

I haven't close read your ISO

[RadiantCowbells]

RC, let's talk about UTL / Heat. I still think it's likely only one of them is scum due to this:

This may be true, but why is it an immediate priority?

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm still not quite sure if I'm at.

I don't have that much time atm: promise that on Sunday I give big content post.

[RadiantCowbells]

do I get to pull "im rc do what I say"?

[RadiantCowbells]

but I am RC damnit.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think that Golden Robster is gonna flip scum here.

I'd rather lynch UTL.

[RadiantCowbells]

I really don't wanna lynch Golden.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey I wasn't likely to get killed tonight and wasn't in the lynchpool so you just nailed a target on my back for nothing.

thanks though.

[RadiantCowbells]

what reason do we have to believe that a vig exists though? :S

[RadiantCowbells]

like walk me through the purpose behind this discussion.

who proposed that a vig exists and why?

[RadiantCowbells]

Ircher, why do you think that Axle is a vig?

[RadiantCowbells]

Axle, are you claiming vig?
Ircher, are you claiming role cop?

[RadiantCowbells]

Are you claiming that one or both of the NK targets was killed by you and not mafia?

[RadiantCowbells]

I am going to role fish the fucking hardest right now because there's only so much power town can have.

[RadiantCowbells]

Nope nope nope nope nope.

I don't get an answer I lynch one of the two of you.

[RadiantCowbells]

VCA is tripe peddled to fools who want to blame town for not voting correctly.
It's tangentially useful for seeing who to look at; I'm not going to make a case off of VCA.
You're asking the wrong person.

[RadiantCowbells]

Rude.
The current people I desire to ISO were Heat and UTL, but now I'm super suspicious of Axel & Ircher and want to figure out what's going on there.
I find it very difficult to believe that town has an additional role cop and vigilante on top of what's already flipped.

[RadiantCowbells]

Most games that town loses either involved scum hard bussing or involved all 3 scum winning together.
VCA is of no use in either of those situations.
VCA is really useful for games where scum tried to keep their partners alive and failed and did so in an easily detectable way on votecounts... but those games are ones that town wins anyway.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think it's not entirely an impossibility that Ircher is tracker and caught Axle performing a night kill.

I want a hardclaim from Ircher if he has anything to report.

[RadiantCowbells]

I think it's not entirely an impossibility that Ircher is tracker and caught Axle performing a night kill.

I want a hardclaim from Ircher if he has anything to report.

if you have any role related reason to believe that Axle si a vigilante, now is the time.

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't say anything about what you did or did not do.

I'm just asking for clarity.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you are town, Axle, all that this means is that Ircher will report with "I don't have a role related reason, sorry!"

[RadiantCowbells]

Well I wasn't sure what I was asking because I noticed weird shit going on and was trying to clarify.

I needed to consider what the possibilities really were before I could ask the 'right' question so to speak.

[RadiantCowbells]

Even if you are a PR of some sort if you don't have a role related reason just say "I don't have a role related reason."

[RadiantCowbells]

I hate hat youre doing this. I feel like youre doing it for meta reasons.

I am town.
you stop the FOSing me or you get the hose again.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't like the half ass way PK is pushing on me here.

Be a man and fight me like one. Why do you think that I'm scum?

[RadiantCowbells]

Would you believe I'm just feeling like being a lazy fuck right now?

[RadiantCowbells]

ok ok.

PK, pick one and I iso them right now.

[RadiantCowbells]

Hey I'm not particularly happy about my current situation either.

Something something Annie again.

Comprende?

[RadiantCowbells]

She has a pretty sweet passive as well.

And she's not a demon, nor is she evil. She's just misguided. Jeez.

Don't be mean to her.

[RadiantCowbells]

so I'm going to ISO Heat since you wanted the one that wasn't a major wagon yesterday.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't like the way Heat dealt with either the PK or the Raskol wagons.

Definite scum candidate.

I'll go read another ISO.

[RadiantCowbells]

UTL still scuzzy as fuck.

She asks questions about Raskol's positions but never follows them up.

Definitely would lynch her, higher priority than Heat who I could see as town at this point.

[RadiantCowbells]

hory fek.

[RadiantCowbells]

which player u want specifics on and what are u looking for.

[RadiantCowbells]

I dont see heat as less scummy than utl

I dont see how heat has improved their slot

Heat defended Raskol directly.
I get some gut pings from him, particularly from when he asked what my read on him was.

UTL asked Raskol questions as if she scumread him then didn't get or follow up on the answers and she reacted weirdly to him FoSing her in return.
I get awful gut pings from her.

UTL has been my priority lynch since I got caught up.

[RadiantCowbells]

I spoke into his eyes I thought you died alone a long long time ago
oh no not me we never lost control
you're face to face with the man who sold the world.

[RadiantCowbells]

Massive/UTL could be a thing.

[RadiantCowbells]

I don't think GR or Heat are scum though.
I think that Massive's hammer was calculatedly abrasive to look like it came from town while it was concealing a scum drive to protect his partner from being wagoned.

GR is a townread in general, and Heat is far less scummy than either UTL or Massive.

Pls sheep? :<

[RadiantCowbells]

PK you want a leader you got a fucking leader yo.

now lynch UTL.

[RadiantCowbells]

Mostly!

But I'd somewhat scumread you independently.

[RadiantCowbells]

That 'come after me tomorrow' was so calculated and flat.

Me no likey.

[RadiantCowbells]

I disagree.

But can you agree with me on UTL and we sort out Massive later?

[RadiantCowbells]

Can I just 'welp I'm rc' and have everyone vote this player?

I'm not good at this.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'll give you at least some love and attention.

[RadiantCowbells]

omg thank you hear you are awesome.

not like that horrible person Lilith who hates me.

[RadiantCowbells]

heat*

[RadiantCowbells]

i'm pretty fucking reluctant to vote GR too, yeah.

what does it mean though?

[RadiantCowbells]

Spoiler: preamble

If as means of not being a dick, and breaking game rule zero, you start with true kind and necessary
it is often necessary in mafia to be fewer than all of those things, compromises are required. In this case somewhat unusually it is possible I will compromise true in a way I normally don't, despite LAL, but only in places that are not alignment indicative or exactly game relevant. Not sure yet and not sure i will remember to come back and remove/renuance this if I dont.

Oh you want detailed explanation of meaning.... I can do that.

in extensive detail even

continuing analysis of AI interactions.

There is problem best shown by example.

but first a word from piss and vinegar (The sponsor of todays post)

Spoiler: P&V

Describing the non material aspects of humans is hard and error prone.
These two/three posts

AI, youre full of piss and vinegar today?

Made it to the bottom of 25. My impression so far of those four pages:

Player: "Hey but what about this possible game-related idea or thought?"
pisskop / AI / droog: "Never mind that, have you seen the size of our dongs?"

Honestly guys, there is nothing alignment-indicative in your dongs, put them away please.

This is us fighting:

all talk about the same thing just with differing POVs,

it
the thing

is what I am talking about when i talk about piss and vinegar. (choose your own POV for what it looks like from where you stand)

Consider the problem I identified that AI had been

I'd highly likely think they killed him thinking he was a blue role. he did spend most of D1 acting like he was "special" in some way.

Why a problem? Well that is the example.

Lets be a little cheaty analyze Keyser, where we all happen to know the answer. (both were town)

Spoiler: Keyser For use as benchmark TvT interaction

Keyser I believe got the implied joke troll of post 7 See

DO NOT FAKE CLAIM

Massive 108 is more what I expected as a "general" reply but i forgot Keyser is keyser so I got 8.
So with that as basis for where Keyser's head is at...

26 28 33 Shows Keysers, reaction to people scum reading it....
Keyser is fairly clearly chasing alignment indicative information.
(his characterization of our relative number of games (on this forum) may be accurate, but is perhaps little misleading about what Id expect both to know... especially given as stated I had stalked Keyser a bit.)
meh he is chasing "is scum indicative." Now theoretically good scum can try to pressure noob into folding up in heap and getting lynched like that... (which is really quite towny,). but I dont see that very often, (and besdies this is NOT so much reading the interaction as just reading keyser as i did at the time.)

Keyser goes on trying to sort a bunch of people, now it was his interaction with me that I found most interesting, in that by doing what he did he was losing the chance to see me interact in the mess of my own making. (Seemed like bad idea to me at the time)
However we are doing AI's interactions
By 63 he is voting AI.

By 78 he appeared to be contemplating banging his privates on steel bar as opposed to some alternatives on offer.... (almost tilted?) (I was, so maybe I was just projecting)

and then on a dime he turned. (79 83 86)

As scum, if Keyser was scum (yeah I know hes flipped but this is a worked example on known solution kk)

If Keyser is looking to, by pressuring the noobs, crack one and suddenly he guesses one might have so much gumption because he is a PR, what might scum do?
Back off and nk them.
A player who is scum has head start in that PR guessing game, as they know in advance the "piss and vinegar" is not from rolling scum and being able to kill those you disagree with, and finally having one up on everyone else by being "in the know", they know who the scum team is, so the other ones that look like they got an "interesting" PM, could be power roles.

I was immensely conflicted at the time. I spent a large swathe of the day, being (privately) concerned about AI's alignment, especially if he had rolled scum with you(Ircher) as while it seemed less likely given how overt he was being, having recently won a scum game at LYLO in game against you, if he was now scum with you, pregame you guys might have talked yourselves into something dramatic and grandious as strategy. I couldn't make the pieces fit for anything. My plan was to let the day go by and if/when people were ever flipped then it would explain itself. (Not a D1 problem).

Returning to Keyser...
So Keysers direction flipped suddenly, I have difficulty trying to work out which kinds of reactions and direction changes were in fact motivated by guessing the play might be role related (Which can easily make townies flipping their read look to be fabricating reasons, because they are),
which were genuine reads that the person is actually in the right place just doing it badly.
Here is Keyser and pisskop agreeing with a "reason", they thought AI was trying to force us out of LYLO. 104

Here is me slowing down the progress, of my and your discussion 90, because i need to be able to temporarily walk away from a scum read on you if I am not going to flat out confront AI big time D1.
(also because I thought time would indeed help)
Here is me putting it on the never never 116 118

I had already (at 90) decided to go elsewhere that day, but did not want to be seen turning so close to me noticing Keyser turn.

Basically from my own knowledge and my own best guesses, some creative truth telling may have happened D1.

Oh well when i wrote the above spoiler, I dipped into other peoples reactions a bit. (Also know my own alignment and the reactions are all mixed up)

As contrast here is the flipped scum reacting to AI

Spoiler: Raskolnikov

But now in addition Ircher is saying he gut-reads AI despite not liking his posts and its based on something that'd be "prob. be best I didn't say.", which is kind of fishy. I don't think being in a scumteam would explain this behaviour, I get the feeling they're in a neighbourhood or something else is going on I can't understand.

Here 676 is UTL backing off from Ircher, who scum Rask thought might be in a neighborhood with AI. My best guess is that is UTL working out something weird is happening and backing off.
This 728 if they are both scum, could be UTL making sure Rask notices the previous post, or it could be UTL just explaining exactly what they say they were in 732
Those were thoughts I had earlier probably at about real time.
Reexmaining it now, 984 does not look like scum who has worked out they think AI and Ircher have some special power based relationship. (which they turned out not have)
Perhaps it was digging for confirmation?

GR :I dont find or remember significant interactions

Heat:
Sometimes the feel of the moxie in post like this one makes me wonder if the poster is scum

Spoiler: 665

scapegoat taken away from you.

Ah, it is quite fun how scum try to target the so called "easy" tarhets only to find it is way more difficult than they imagined......

don't flatter yourself.

Sometimes some people are naturally full of piss and vinegar

Spoiler: video

as for the rest of the players interactions

Would you believe I'm just feeling like being a lazy fuck right now?

HOWEVER
TLDR: I dont like the summary that just the interactions might give.

Reading UTL and heat for actual alignment using all tools available... Yields my current reads

Where i want to lynch GR and Heat, and then see if the game is over.

"all the tools"

man shut the fuck up really.

[RadiantCowbells]

k everyone who isn't AxleGreaser please vote UTL with me.

[RadiantCowbells]

I am a shepherd leading my flock to glorious scum lynch pastures.

[RadiantCowbells]

I remember when I used to wallpost all the time.

[RadiantCowbells]

why don't people blindly sheep me 100% of the time?

[RadiantCowbells]

Yeah but UTL is a billion times more likely to flip scum.

Just saying.

[RadiantCowbells]

vote: utl

Now listen here mister! UTL had his wagon D2, it's Heat's turn!

stahpit

[RadiantCowbells]

axle.

you are bad.

please stop arguing with me.

[RadiantCowbells]

or you aren't bad, but your play in this game is.

[RadiantCowbells]

fuck off can you take a point?

I have a guilty on utl

now lynch it.

[RadiantCowbells]

fight me!

[RadiantCowbells]

I have not fakeclaimed a guilty to get someone lynched since 2013.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm not voting either of them?

[RadiantCowbells]

I didn't fakeclaim to get them lynched.

I fakeclaimed for a reaction.

There's a very, very big difference in these situations. I retracted the claim presently.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you understood the context you'd think that I'm a fucking genius for thinking to do that.

I innod a godfather day 1 and still called him as scum. I fake redchecked Titus because she was hard pushing for a cop check on that person and I wanted to see some reactions.

You should read the rest of the game where I had the game mostly sorted out on D2 where I got quickhammered by Cow as cop.

[RadiantCowbells]

FYI I was trying to see Ircher's reaction specificaly to that guilty.

[RadiantCowbells]

I clearly don't have an UTL redcheck.

Only Ircher would actually believe that in this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

She's not hammered, but she should be asap.

[RadiantCowbells]

y u out me tho.

[RadiantCowbells]

why dis guy outing the friendly neighbour tho.

quel blague.

[RadiantCowbells]

that's 4 votes.

if she was hammered I'd be ecstatic.

[RadiantCowbells]

1) she's not hammered
2) you suck axle.

[RadiantCowbells]

oh it was a hammer.

goody goody

mucho bueno.

mb didn't realize.

[RadiantCowbells]

I wasn't trying to get them lynched.

I didn't realiez they were going to get lynched.

I wanted to see how Ircher specifically would react to a redcheck.

[RadiantCowbells]

but i'm le friendly le neighbour le tho

[RadiantCowbells]

Boonskiies literally just outed me as friendly neighbour

y u no beliefsings me?

[RadiantCowbells]

if I'm as bad a liar as you think, why am i so good at mafiaaaaaaaaaa

[RadiantCowbells]

you say I'm crazy cuz you don't think I know what you've done

but when you call me baby I know I'm not the only one.

[RadiantCowbells]

*shrug*

I tried boon.

[RadiantCowbells]

I'm actually pretty fucking pissed at this loss.
Massive was obvious scum but Boonskiies fucked it all up.
I was going to RB Massive but when Boon flew in with that fucking nonsense claiming me to be a friendly neighbour I was so thrown aback that I didn't crumb it so I had to block Ircher since that's what my ISO pointed to.
This was, without a doubt, the worst town that I've ever had the misfortune to play in. and that's saying something.
It's not just Boonskiies who was a total moron in this game.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh, and Axle, do you realize you literally

1) cast shade on EVERY SINGLE TOWN ALIGNED SLOT in the game?

and

2) hard defended EVERY SINGLE SCUM ALIGNED SLOT in the game?

Don't be so smug. you are not a good player. you're literally the worst player who thinks that they're good that I've ever laid my eyes on.
and I'm fine with people just being bad but you're like so uptight about your badness. You're like the bronze 5 who argues that Poppy mid is closet OP and just doesn't understand why it works.
Stop your smug wallposting and actually listen to other people.

[RadiantCowbells]

*shrug*
dearly wish I didn't replace in and invest my effort into having Boonskiies screw me over and everyone else ignore me.

[RadiantCowbells]

*shrug*

I got one of you lynched and called out the other, and would have RBed if it weren't for Boon.

Thank Boonskiies for your win. I saved town to the extent that I was able.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like take your win, but don't bitch at me about it.

[RadiantCowbells]

You are either

1) fully aware that that is not the case
or
2) letting your pride in your victory prevent you from seeing the fact that everything that I've said is true.

Yeah, I fake guiltied. Desperation play because Robster was obvtown, Ircher was being an idiot, and town was throwing itself off a cliff.
I would have had a real guilty the next day if it weren't for Boonskiies shenanigans.
Mod can verify that I origianlly sent in a Massive RB before I read my ISO and realized that people would interpret it as an Ircher RB and hda to change it.

[RadiantCowbells]

Why does what the town would believe matter in that case? You block me, you don't actually die, and it's game over. Did you think you couldn't convince the town you were really a roleblocker after fake-guiltying AND accepting Boons' fakeclaim of you being the Friendly Neighbor? Boons would have self-outed at that point so you only had half the distance to go.

And personally, I think that it's your job as town to work to convince your teammates and work with them to win, not play obtusely and then yell at them in post-game. My irritation has nothing to do with your ability to read the game, it has everything to do with this shitty holier-than-thou attitude you have after losing.

Every thing I was personally involved in was a success story.

I also called out the scumteam.

[RadiantCowbells]

Man, Performer, your hammer was the most nerve-wracking thing I have ever done as scum. I knew I couldn't let UTL's wagon gather any kind of momentum but I knew I needed to do it in a way that wouldn't bring a huge amount of fire my way the next day. Luckily pisskop finally decided he'd rather I choke on a pretzel than get lynched

which was transparent as soon as I reread that fyi.

as I pointed out.

I'm positive no one in the game reread that sequence after my death.

[RadiantCowbells]

youre right, its not everyone :d

Im gonna take a breather. I hope we all learned from this experience.


mod was a good mod too

what that you ought play the damn game?
and post reasons and shit?
and make some effort to be readable?

PK was plenty readable.

I was plenty readable.

What YOU interpret as 'effort to be readable' and 'playing the damn game' is people's conformity to YOUR measure of playing the game, which isn't even fucking REMOTELY a scum or a town tell. Everything that you were looking at in this game was super far from NAI. If you want to learn from that, I can walk you through some things. If you want to carry on playing the way you are and blaming the people you mislynch (because you WILL mislynch a lot of people playing like you are), that's fine too.

[RadiantCowbells]

What YOU interpret as 'effort to be readable' and 'playing the damn game' is people's conformity to YOUR measure of playing the game,

posting why your read people as scum is not the game?

Pk would mot explain his reads.

but yeah you are from the welp I am cow bells appeal to emotion school of playing mafia.
I got over crying and other such methods of appealing to emotion until I got what i wanted long time ago.

YMMV and apparently does.

No, it's actually not.
Not in the way you think it is at least.
Would you like me to make a serious theory post or no?

[RadiantCowbells]

Like the tl;dr is that even minutely skilled scum can give reasons for any of their votes.
Scumhunting is reconstructing play in thread into a larger framework of understanding what their thought process.
That's almost entirely not about their votes or the reasons for them directly, but about how they fit in with their thought processes and such.

For example, if Massive was legitimately pissed off at PK for not giving reasons he would have just hammered.
Massive would have known PK's not going to suddenly fly in and start giving reasons when he's just not that kind of player.
Thus you can conclude that Massive knew that PK was going to not give reasons and was counting on that.

When you consider that the counterwagon was on scum, bam 100% scum motivated play. Bullseye.
THAT'S scumhunting. Going after people for spending less time explaining their reads isn't.

[RadiantCowbells]

He did.
You're just looking for one narrow set of things in people's posts that doesn't capture everything.
In fact this game should prove to you what I've considered gospel for a long time; people who overly justify their reads are usually scum.

FMPOV, you are literally looking for a scumtell and using it as a towntell.

[RadiantCowbells]

For example, if Massive was legitimately pissed off at PK for not giving reasons he would have just hammered.

No that is what a childish Massive would do.

I was legitimately pissed of at many things, I didn't vote anyone because of it.
You appear to be projecting how you play mafia onto other people.

Massive clearly indicated that he was pissed off and/or childish in thread.
He then tried to divert responsibility for his hammer by saying that he was hammering because PK wasn't explaining his reads, when he knew full well that PK wasn't going to.
That makes the entire thing clearly posturing. And posturing isn't necessarily scummy but with how flat and forced it was him being scum is the easy conclusion to draw.

[RadiantCowbells]

people who overly justify their reads are usually scum.

I flipped town.

but yeah i use the over justifcation of reads as scum indicative thing but it is ridiculously context dependent.

No I mean like I explained that wrong.
you said you townread Massive because 'everything that he was thinking was in thread'.

This is, flat out, a scumtell.
If there's not clearly some thought process with their reads that extends beyond the game and applies to every single one of their posts, that makes them scum.
You townread Massive for not having anything beyond his posts because he posted everything. That's shallow and scummy. It's not something you should townread.

Yeah he was pissed off, but as town would he act on it?

He DID act on it though.
If he ended up NOT hammering you might have a case here.

[RadiantCowbells]

He DID act on it though.

He did what he originally said he was going to, when he said he would.
he did not act on being pissed off.


Pedit: good news Glad to hear it.


/out

The entire thing was an (acted) fit of rage at PK though.
So the hammer WAS an act on being pissed off (claimed to be).
Whatevs.

[RadiantCowbells]

Well obv kill Boon

RC's play is kinda dumb, I think. Why fake the cop claim and then fake the FN claim when you have a legitimate shot at finding the last scum? Keeping Boon alive for one more day just makes him the target the next night when he has no ability to affect the nightkill.

Pains me to leave Axle alive another night but may need him ultimately tomorrow just to survive, since pisskop's raging hard-on to lynch me has magically returned. Better start prepping my attack strategy.

I didn't claim FN.
Boonskiies decided to be a [redacted] and claim that I was friendly neighbour for absolutely no reason.

[RadiantCowbells]

And do what, claim roleblocker?

How the fuck am I supposed to react to that?

[RadiantCowbells]

Plus, he said "I turst your reads" which I took as him saying that he'd fucking NOT LYNCHING the person I fakeclaimed a guilty to defend and that he WOULD LYNCH the only person I called scum this entire game besides UTL.

[RadiantCowbells]

And I was trying to keep down low.

I was forced to stick my head up because of how bad town was being.

And even that didn't save town.

*shrug*

I wasn't the reason we lost this. I didn't choose for Boon to claim that I was FN.

If you say "I'm not the FN, you are, dummy," then I leave you alone, probably for the rest of the game. I am perfectly happy to keep you around since you don't seem to be able to convince anyone to follow you. And I'm perfectly happy to kill Boons one night earlier than I had to.

If you say "yup, I'm the FN!" well then you must die, because you are conftown to half the town and I will never get a chance to mislynch you.

I don't know, man, this is why I hate gambits and lying townies. I just never see it work in their favor.

there's gambiting and being a fucking moron.

I am never playing with Boon again.

[RadiantCowbells]

Like I agree that I didn't react well to it.
But I was put on the spot in a pretty fucking horrible way by a selfish player who only cared about his own reads even after I got scum lynched.
That same player who claimed that they trusted my reads and lynched my biggest townread.

[RadiantCowbells]

I assumed that you would interpret me saying fuck you you're the FN boon go fuck yourself as me claiming PR.

I could be wrong.

[RadiantCowbells]

Yes, and so fucking not my fault.

I did not claim RBer.

Boon outed me because he 'can't read me' right after I saved town from lynching town and strongarmed onto scum and called the last scum.

[RadiantCowbells]

You never gave any reasons to back up your reads, so people ignored you.

no. I got my scumreads lynched while I was alive. I can't control what people do after I'm dead.

Also, I DID explain my massive scumread. Stop fucking imagining shit; it's UTL that I didn't explain.

Point being, WE ALL MADE MISTAKES

I played that game as optimally as I could have under the circumstances.

Massive hammered Performer --> That was a mistake

Not when no one punished him for it besides me and he was free to NK me because of the FN shenanigans.

So, please stop acting as if you are the star townie who got messed up by an inconsiderate townie.

We all tried and we all made mistakes. No need to aggravate everyone in post game with your bickering.

But I am.

And that's unarguable and trying to argue it is completely not based in any sort of facts.

[RadiantCowbells]

You appear to be failing at giving reasons, right here right now? and you dont even have scum PM.

Because giving reasons and not giving reasons is

100%

non-alignment indicative.

[RadiantCowbells]

It's only a mistake if he gets lynched for it.

I mean it was a mistake because it zeroed in the scumteam for me but since Boon is Mafia satan...

And, you had plenty of time to post you were a RB & planned to RB Massive D3.

I should have reacted better, but I completely blanked when Boon's suddenly trying to out me as a PR.

Cuz, you were discussing the hammer with Boon. In fact, FN came after the hammer, so what the heck?!

I didn't realize it was a hammer and then when I did Boon did the shit he did.

[RadiantCowbells]

this game killed my mafia thing that I had.

I haven't been able to properly invest myself in a mafia game to the same extent since this one I'm so mad about what happened.

*shrug*

[RadiantCowbells]

Can anyone give me a review of my play?

take the reads of the dead more seriously.
don't spend so long focusing on anti-town shit. Golden Robster was ostensibly anti-town, lurking to an extent, and wasn't overly explaining his reads but there was nothing scummy about this play.
Lots of newbs can't tell the difference between scumminess and anti-townness. learn it.
don't go after the people who aren't working with town. go for the people who are manipulating it in slimy ways, aka massive.

[RadiantCowbells]

Oh.

And when a slot is scummy and the lost slot remaining, aka Golden Robster, IT DOESNT FUCKING MATTER IF I WAS BELIEVED TO BE FRIENDLY NEIGHBOUR OR NOT. He would NOT kill me.

[RadiantCowbells]

Not sure what you mean.

[RadiantCowbells]

I gave a major explanation during the game about why Massive was scum.

It didn't change your misplaced townread on him.

Make yourself responsible for having correct reads, not other people.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you want to policy ignore my reads no matter how correct they are because of the person they're coming from I can't stop you.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you want me to provide reasons then fucking work with me.

You were being a stubborn fuck this entire game.

[RadiantCowbells]

#Golden Lynch

Then work with me instead of being a stubborn ass and saying shit like 'UTL HAD HER WAGON!'

[RadiantCowbells]

You gave no case on Golden either, and yous houldn't forget that.

[RadiantCowbells]

So yours was a good fake claim gambit?
I am sure Mina will update her advice accordingly.

Fakeclaiming is a desperation move and my situation was desperate there.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you could understand what I was thinking when I was doing the things I did, you wouldn't have been wrong on every single one of your reads.

[RadiantCowbells]

If you could understand what I was thinking when I was doing the things I did, you wouldn't have been wrong on every single one of your reads.

people might understand what you were thinking if you explained it.

It gets very hard to understand what you were thinking when it is so self contradictory even now that virtually some of it must be lies.

You were and were not trying to get UTL lynched, and have literally claimed both.
You were desperate to get someone lynched but didn't happen to for instance know what the actual vote count was.

I was indeed wrong on my reads after about that point.

I am not sure how understanding whatever it is that would mean you both did and did not fake red check to UTL lynched will help that.

I wasn't trying to get her lynched IMMEDIATELY.

I wanted to see how Ircher would react to the claim.

[RadiantCowbells]

Massive was never going to believe my cop claim.