Mini 1755: Game Over

[Ircher]

Finally, when I get back from v/la, I got a self-iso to post

[Ircher]

@Massive
WAIT -- PK is conf town. Axle has presented a prisoner's dilemna that it is either Heat or me to lynch. I'm thinking its Heat or Axle. Do not kill me before deadline cuz I got a lot to do for this game when I get back.

@All
I recommend ISO rereads of myself, Axle, Heat, and AI today.

[Ircher]

Right now, huge FOS on Axle.

Well that is interesting.

Right now, its just a speculation, but I will see if I confirm/deny my suspicions of you later.

[Ircher]

Also, if it helps to know, Boon targeted me last night.

[Ircher]

Overstatement -- He is "extremely likely" to be town. I think I explained my thoughts on the matter yesterday

@Axle - Well, its a strong speculation based on GR's flip and the fact you are unwilling to lynch massive. I need to review AI's readlists, he like RC tend to somehow get effective reads despite not giving reasons....

[Ircher]

I am investigating to see if Axle is pushing a scum agenda or not. If he is, he is being very subtle about it.

But, I'm posting my self iso first -- Maybe it will help you understand my thought process, perspective, and reflections from this game.

[Ircher]

Meant False Dilemma

[Ircher]

Though, I'm thinking I'm using the term incorrectly right now.

[Ircher]

It may or may not, as far as I am concerned FoS is simply a suspicion. That's why I have to investigate.

[Ircher]

Let me put it another way: Town leaders are occasionally scum. You seem to fulfil the town leader role for the most part this game. And, you have barely been suspected of treachery except at the beginning. While your death tunnel on GR could be towny, it could be scum desperate for a mislynch. The fact that you want Heat or me lynched next is further need for suspicion -- we are the two easiest lynches right noe. Also, objectively, I have prob. acted the most anti-town this game, but whether that means I'm scum is for you to decide. Anyway, if Massive isn't scum, I'm right now inclined to lynch you before Heat.

[Ircher]

I still see Massive as a nullish read really... He just doesn't post enough for me to guage his alignment.

[Ircher]

You have less posts than the mod....
While quality is def. more important, I do need some quantity to make a definitive ruling.

[Ircher]

@Axle
again, I'm v/la right now. Give me a week.

[Ircher]

Well, I also liked the part where he forgot he got such a pm. His reaction at finding the pm seems genuine.

[Ircher]

Ok, so this is a self-iso, so read it if you want.....

Spoiler: Self ISO

1. The confusion with me all began with 27 where a very poorly worded post caused a myraid of confusion. -

I think what I take from this is that I should really use the preview button and reread my posts so they make logical sense. While we certainly make mistakes, I feel that a reread, as I had done when writing 44, could've cleared up a lot of confusion. Although I say these things, I never do it, but maybe I'll start remembering to do this more often.

2. By 111, I'm suggesting a PL of PK. I apparently got jumped on this a lot. -

On reflection, my suggestion wasn't an attrocious one, and while I never committed to it but more stood on the sidelines (one way to put it), I think it's understandable. PK was annoying the heck out of me, but I really didn't feel PK was scum. Hence, the reason I didn't act proactively in my PL suggestion.

3. I am the first person to vocalize a scumread of Ras; I did so in 213; furthermore, I voted Ras in that post. Really consider that before lynching me, it is prob. one of the few things that I've done in this game that kinda fits site norm.

4. Later on, I have a little clash with Droog. Upon looking back over it, my reaction was more "Droog seems to be scumreading me for poor reasons" rather than an actual scummy feel to it. What I am saying is that it wasn't like Droog was dropping scumtells, it was more that I found him opportunistic because he seemed to scumread me for reasons I thought were unreasonable. Am I being clear here?

5. One thing I would like to point out in 418 is the fact I

generally

agreed with what Ras said. I didn't say I completely agreed, I really didn't say I mostly agreed with Ras's post that I quoted. I actually said that I agreed with the general ideas in Ras's post. Huge difference between the two imho.

6. By 558, I've changed from Droog to Boon. Apparently, my reasoning was AI's read and the fact that Boon was lurking. -

First of all, I probably valued AI's opinion the most out of all of you early game; mainly because I played with him before. Next, as I later realized this game, activity truly is a null tell, but I was the mindset that if they weren't active, they were scum lurking around. In truthfulness, I ought to lynch myself based off of that reasoning as everyone gets busy at times. So, yeah, this wasn' my best move, but it could be worse -- I could just switch without any reason. And I'm sure there are worse reasons for voting him at the time than activity.

7. Boon accuses me of making fluff. In 659, I challenge him to highlight some of it. -

In hindsight, the way I worded that post is kinda scummy. While the premise is reasonable, I think I could've made my challenge in a way that sounded less defensive, etc.

8. One thing that is notable in D1 is that of all my scumreads, I only consistently kept 1. That read was Ras -- from beginning to end, I scumread him. Why did I scumread other people, well, as a person elsewhere put it, I'm a reflexive voter. I tend to vote anyone who jumps on me cuz I think I'm not acting scummy but truly I do do things that look very culpable. Ras was the only person that day that I scumread for a reason besides activity or scumreading me.

@Ras (For Post-Game) --> I am a bit disappointed. You probably could've fooled me if you tried a bit harder and stayed engaged in the game even after your crucial mistake. It was your lack of commitment, of fighting to survive, that ultimately got you lynched. Keep that in mind the next time you are scum.

9. 664 and 667 are fun, joking posts that shouldn't be taken as alignment indicative.

10. Ok, 722 just sounds wrong. First of all it is a logical fallancy (not that I really care. Also, I'm hinting at a possibility of me being scum. Despite the way it sounds, I actually like the post; context is the key here. In this case, we have Boon tunnelling me hardcore. So, what I am effectively doing here is suggesting that if he would look at it at a more neutral standpoint, he may not see as much scum in me. Aka, this post is a good example where context and interpretation matter a lot --> Boon thought it was scumslip which it is if you just skim over it. If you understand the context though, you will realize it is more of a post that a frustrated townie would make.

11. I remind people in 756 that deadline is approaching. -

This is me shooting for towncred, but think about it. Scum could VERY EASILY just "ignore" the deadline and later pretend they didn't notice; they would IMHO prefer NOT to mention that a deadline is looming, ESPECIALLY when the obvious lynch at the time is one of their buddies. No lynch in general hurts town, and scum would PREFER no lynch over the lynch of their buddy. Just my own attempt to garner towncred, just don't all me out on it, as I'm being honest. Oh and last of all, you must always consider the sum of the actions, one little instance like this is never something you should base your entire read upon.

12. As I demonstrated throughout this game, I always maximize daytime if it is in my control. One such post is 814 where I unvote Ras despite knowing that he is almost certainly the D1 lynch and there is almost no more discussion to take place. -

I prefer if you don't take these things as alignment indicative, it is just the way I play. In general, more time imo means more time to find scum and their partners, so it is my opinion that unless the next lynch will end the game REGARDLESS of flip, time shouldn't be cut short.

13. 826 is my final D1 post. I made a total of 63 posts that day out of about 860 or so posts.

14. My notes in 877 are still somewhat relevant and should definitely be reviewed. One of the few times this game I've paid close attention to stuff. Some interesting things --> Droog vs. PK I marked as TvT, so that furthers my PK townread. Point 19 is kinda interesting albeit no longer relevant. Still useful to consider though.

15. 971 began a mini off-topic discussion.

16. Around the 1000s, I'm trying to use activity to show that Massive is scummy. -

If I were more experienced, I would probably say that most people would find that opportunistic. The thing is I'm not; I am just now starting to understand why activity is non-alignment indicative. I'm also starting to understand how meta affects reads -- that has greatly influenced my read of PK throughout the game. I never read meta, but I ought to. Just as I tend to be seen as a good mislynch target, so do other people have their own metas they follow. I really at least give them more weight than I have; sure, you can manipulate them, but that isn't normally the case and I shouldn't just flagrantly disregard it. As I like to say, it is simply another tool to be used. Not too much but not too little emphasis on it.

17. In 1040 and 1044, I pose a question to UTL. The question is simply whether scum would generally tend to write posts like 877 during the night phase. When UTL gave me his specific answer (I wanted the more general answer), I asked for a clarification. -

I won't lie to myself, it certainly does look like an attempt for towncred, esp. the 2nd question. But, again, I think context is important and that the fact I asked that first question is also imperative.

18. 1098 is important. I voted UTL over Performer NOT because I thought UTL was scummier BUT because I didn't want to hammer Performer.

19. I made a pretty good point to Boon in 1387. And quite frankly, I think it made quite a difference in his outlook on me. Personally, I do try to keep an unbiased perspective, which often leads to trouble. Basically, what I'm saying here is that everyone has a different POV and sometimes you get really biased (tunnel vision). But, when people point out your tunnel, you should step back for a minute (or more) and reconsider your view to determine if what you think is based on facts or your outlook.

20. Post 1488 ended up being a lot more of a link dump than anything. This was mainly because not too much interesting stuff happened in D2 til like the last 3 or so days. Nonetheless, even link dumps have their purposes: quick access to relevent info, so I'd say the post was worth it.

21. 1854 and 1893 seem a bit weird. So, as crazy as this sounds, I thought that by voting my biggest townread, I'd get a reaction out of someone. When I noticed everyone ignored it, I think I realized I was too blatant about it. Scum could see the trap too easily and avoid it. So, obviously, it didn't work, BUT it shows people are engaged in this game and are paying significant attention to it.

And, that's it! I hope this self-assessment will prove useful. In both solving this game and understanding my perspective.

[Ircher]

Okay, this is my ISO on Axle with any comments I have inside the spoiler.

Spoiler: Axle ISO Comments

1. Post 7 really helped get the game moving. While it is a weird question to ask, Axle does a decent job explaining himself in later posts such as 9 and 88. In this case, I see what looks like genuine scumhunting from Axle when he questions me later on the subject.

2. 136 just kinda irks me. While the way Performer worded his response could lead to ambiguity, the intended meaning imho was rather clear. I wouldn't necessarily say this is scum trying to look like they are scumhunting, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.

3. Axle basically just repeats what he quoted from PK in 282. So, it is a bit late, but do you (Axle) remember exactly what you meant or trying to accomplish with the bottom part of that post?

4. Towards the end of 680, Axle mentions the fact that he saw two jesters yet it was a normal game. In a much later post, he says that the two he felt were jesters were AI and me (didn't realize he thought I was trying to get lynched.....). I'm just curious as to why this fact was important, did it really matter that you thought there was two jesters in the game, yet knew there couldn't be? Meh, I'll give it a null read.

5. Not part of Axle's ISO but relevant: In Ras's 761, he says I'm a red herring and his next strongest s.cumread is Axle. Ras flipped scum, but for some reasons, I get a slight associative scumread on Axle from here.

6. What was 771 about? I really don't see the value in the post (aka fluff).

7. 1105 is interesting in that two ML's are his biggest scumreads. Though, I'm not getting opportunistic vibes in Axle's reads right now, I see reasonable logical and evidence behind them.

Meh. I think I'll stop there -- initial thoughts are Axle isn't really pushing a scum agenda.

[Ircher]

VOTE: Massive

[Ircher]

Well, the main purpose of the fos was twofold. One, I wanted your reaction. And second of all, the ML on GR made me start to question my read of you. The fact you were townreading PK and Massive left you with onlky two people to lynch: Heat and I. And quite frankly, I would say that scum would have a much easier time lynching Heat or me, so I became suspicious of your intentions. So, I have looked through about half of your iso, and it does seem you have had reasonable reasons for the lynches you have pushed for. I think I'll look at AI's reads later and see if I can find anything useful there....

Oh, and literally forgot its three to lynch; don't want anyone to hammer massive yet as I still got some work to do.
UNVOTE:
Right now, I'm leaning towards a Massive lynch though.

[Ircher]

If it wasn't clear above, the part about you being unwilling to lynch Massive was it seemed like scum trying to go after the two easiest targets.

[Ircher]

If it wasn't clear above, the part about you being unwilling to lynch Massive was it seemed like scum trying to go

after the two easiest targets

.

1. So far I have not voted you. Go after you is not what Id call what i have done today.

Yesterday, I posted 1948, and earlier 1821
and 1948 does address the question of is it possible for you to be scum

2. but Id find it hard to accept you describing 1815 1821 as part of me going

after the two easiest targets

.

You say

So, I have looked through about half of your iso, and it does seem you have had reasonable reasons for the lynches you have pushed for.

3. As you were there and you voted, one way or the other on those lynches, I would expect you should already have known whether or not it looked like I "had reasonable reasons for the lynches you have pushed for."
That does not seem like something new you would find by rereading my ISO.

Right now, I'm leaning towards a Massive lynch though.

4. Why?

1. I never directly stated that, but I could call my words an overstatement, you are pushing for our lynches, but I know you would prefer a Heat/Ircher lynch right now based off your stated reads.

2. Well, this is based off of what you said at the end of D4. It's your stated reads plus PoE. Certainly, you would at least agree that Heat and I are probably the easiest two to push a lynch on right now?

3. Let me clarify: you had decent reasons then, but I wanted to verify my interpretation of your reads. I miss stuff, don't think much about others, etc. when I'm just checking up on the game. When I do a reread, I am more focused and am more likely to catch stuff.

4. PoE: Right now, I (near)conf-townread PK, I am against a Heat lynch cuz I haven't seen scum motive from him (plus the association case), and my reread of your ISO makes me trust my townread in you a lot more than before. That leaves only Massive.

[Ircher]

Yeah, I've had time to post, etc lately....

[Ircher]

I townread PK for the following reasons:

1. Ras's utter derailment of the PK wagon. This really didn't look like WK of a scumbuddy, it seems more like scum trying to get towncred off of someone they **know** are town but failed epicly at.

2. PK's disinterest (self-vote to prove a point, etc) at the beginning of the game. PK has said himself that he loves to play as scum, much more so than as town. So, PK's lack of interest at the beginning could be used as a sign he's town --> He wasn't interested cuz he didn't roll scum.

3. The way PK switched wagons D2..... While I'd still like a reason for it, I feel that it wasn't just a move to try to garner towncred by jumping off the wagon of a person he **knew 100%** was town.

4. Similarly, PK began to feel GR was town during D4. Once again, I get town vibes; if you think about it, the reasons against GR weren't very extreme, and myself was starting to think he was town. Unlike UTL and Ras, GR DID seem to be trying to engage and help town, he just failed to.

5. Idc what you say, but it was not 100% obvious that Boon was town after his hammer D3. The very fact that PK missed the pm from Boon loojs very genuine. Plus, PK did imo have the option to deny the pm, and when Boon flips later, if he's questioned about it, he could mention the fact that town has a roleblocker who could've roleblocked Boon D1.

6. D1, I saw what looked like a TvT fight between him and AI, as both were using poor reasoning to say the other was scum. If PK was truly scum, he'd prob. would've tried harder to get AI lynched; it really wouldn't've been hard. No, PK was just trolling AI.

[Ircher]

So first there was false run at me (1963+++), then a naked flip onto Massive (2012) (by reason of POE(2021))
but conveniently dropping in behind PKs, town block.

1. As I said in that first post, it was an FoS, not a full on Scumread.
2. At this point, PoE is town's best friend. Having satisfactorily concluded you are town (for today), that leaves with PoE.
3. Convenient? Um, no. Just, no. I just haven't had time to explain my PK read.

[Ircher]

Time for a read list. The game has almost been solved already.

From town to scum:

Read List D1 V1

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Heat}

{Massive}
{Mafiaturtle}
{Burning_Earth, Deus}

{Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop, Keyser, Axle}

Read List D1 V2

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher, Keyser}

{Performer, UpTooLate}

{Lilac, Massive}

{Burning_Earth}

{Deus, Heat}

{Axle, Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop}

Read List D1 V3

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher, Keyser}

{Deus}

{Performer}

{Lilac, Massive, Burning_Earth}

{Axle, Heat}

{UpTooLate, Raskolnikov}

{Pisskop}

Read List 1.4

{AlwaysInnocent}

{Ircher, Keyser}

{Deus}

{Performer, Droog, Raskolnikov}

{Axle, Boonskiies, Massive}

{Pisskop}

{UpTooLate, Heat}

I am still very suspicious of Pisskop, but I am starting to think of the slight possibility that it was initial disinterest. Still, his posts do not seem genuine, so I still think it is probable that he is scum.

My attention has shifted to UpTooLate and Heat now. I am pretty sure at least one of them is scum. Both are highly opportunistic.

[Ircher]

I think we should lynch Massive cuz there's no alternative.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Reads

Confirmed Town

(From my perspective):
1. Ircher (100%)- Role PM

Likely Town

- In Order
2. Pisskop (90%) - For many reasons including Ras's derailment of the wagon D1 and the reaction PK gave concerning Boon's role
3. Heat (82%) - The associative case with Ras and UTL, and I really see genuine, town-aligned motives behind Heat's posts; aka, I've seen 0 opportunism from this slot.

Leaning Town

4. AxleGreaser (60%) - My partial reread has renewed my trust in this slot, but my read has grown very paranoid due to PoE. I will reserve judgement til tomorrow.

Null

Neutral

5. Massive (55%) - Literally a 95% PoE read. The other 5% is a very slight townread from his posts, but overall, he is my weakest read and my weakest townread. I literally have zero true scumreads right now.

Leaning Scum

Likely Scum

[Ircher]

The only thing that worries me about PK is he is scumread in all 4 of AI's official readlists.

[Ircher]

the fact u were so townread but not NKed yet is like... meh

They shot probable power roles, or good/influential players.

Only reason why I haven't become suspicious of Axle as far as nk go. Keyser on N2 was the more logical choice over Axle.

[Ircher]

Actually, even if Axle is town, an Axle lynch might not be a bad idea... esp. if Axle is town

[Ircher]

You see, if Axle is the last scum, then we win. Else, then we just gave scum the burden of choosing someone to nk.

[Ircher]

Whic, nking any of the rest of us 4 not only gives town info, but scum really wouldn't want to nk anyone EXCEPT Axle right now assuming Axle town.

[Ircher]

So, we could lynch Axle as not only an info lynch, but also as a wifom lynch for scum (choose who to nk)

[Ircher]

People site tend to frown when somebody mentions 'info lynching'

I have reevaluated what I've said today after Axle's comments. I've decided I'd be okay with lynching any of you.

[Ircher]

Finally, Axle, you were wrong about GR. That's ok, but pls don't make the same mistake twice.

[Ircher]

Heat needs to participate more; Heat is watching from the sidelines while the rest of us argue.

[Ircher]

Yes, yes I do, as you have only posted like 3 times this day period. And unlike Massive, who I think has posted more than you this day, all of your posts are extremely short.

So, unless your schedule is so demanding that you cannot post more than Massive,

VOTE: Heat

I know this is somewhat unethical and rude, but quite frankly, you did signup for the game and now is a very crucial discussion time.

[Ircher]

Let me clarify what I'm saying to Heat: Now is the best time for scum just to sit back and watch. They're just waiting and wishing deadline approach faster cuz its hard for them to incriminate others without revealing themselves. Meanwhile, town ends up lynching themselves as they run in constant circles trying to find the culprit. So, yes, life gets in the way, but it better be a real time-sucker; if it isn't, then it means Heat is the last scum watching us lose.

[Ircher]

@PK I explained it to Heat that day. It was in a huge wall which apparently none of you read.

It was me messing with wifom-related stuff.

Now, another option we have if we need more time is no lynching today & tommorrow. And, again, scum end up choosing who to nk which hurts them, esp. if Axle's scum.

@Heat - My apologies
UNVOTE: VOTE: No Lynch

[Ircher]

@PK I explained it to Heat that day. It was in a huge wall which apparently none of you read.

It was me messing with wifom-related stuff.

Now, another option we have if we need more time is no lynching today & tommorrow. And, again, scum end up choosing who to nk which hurts them, esp. if Axle's scum.

@Heat - My apologies
UNVOTE:
VOTE: No Lynch

EBWOP

[Ircher]

The key in analyzing AI imo was the fact that he didn't seem the most logical nk. Sure, he was a nuisance and may be a bit difficult to lynch, but imo, there seemed to be way better canidates than AI for the n1 nk (most notably Keyser).

So, as I understand, Axle believes that AI was mainly nk'd cuz scum thought there was a high prob. of him being a PR. It is a reasonable conclusion, and in retrospect, it makes a lot of sense, although I never considered that explanation earlier. (Part of the reason why I asked someone else's opinion on the matter).

Now, at this point, I'm a bit lost (actually a lot). I haven't been following as well with everything (Axle can have...  eh poor grammar a lot which can make it quite difficult sometimes). For the most part, I just feel that this game has too many people who are just goofing off or apathetic rather than actually trying to solve the game. One thing that I know for sure is that not a single one of us has any real idea as to where this game is going (well, that's not strictly the truth, but you get the gist). Most games have some kind of leader by this point, and if I'm not mistaken, Keyser was our leader ('least D2) and he's been nk'd and we have yet to chosen a successor.

Going back to D1, one of Rask's last posts included UTL, Axle, and Droog as the people he wanted lynch. As of right now, none of them have been lynched. Now, I'm delving in to the wifom territory, but let's consider why he wants each of these guys lynched.

If UTL is town: then it seems to me that Ras was taking advantage of the fact that a lot of people scumread him, so in essence, he was going for an easy mislynch on UTL. On the other hand, if UTL is scum, then this is an attempt to distance himself from one of his partners.

We know that for balance purposes, at least one of the people Ras listed has to be town. I'm thinking he most likely included Axle because he knew Axle was town and he knew that Axle was unlikely to be lynched. It was an attempt to cast doubt on a person who few people scumread. It had no point other than to try to make us second-guess each other.

Finally, we have Droog. Overall, I must say that I was pretty satisfied with Droog's play; however, I am rather displeased with RC's play. Nonetheless, I am thinking that RC is more likely town and that RC is following his meta that I prob. won't read. So, this slot is prob. also town.

With that being said, (this is the part that is def. subj. to fallancies), do you think that Ras would've on purposely included only players he knew were town? I think its plausible, as it would be a bit out of the normal flow and ebb of the game. People wouldn't expect it from scum as they would a mixed group.

With that being said, I think I'd prefer lynching Heat before UTL.

Last of all --> What happened to the GR wagon??? RC dismantled almost the entire wagon! If we're going to lynch for info as PK suggested, I would think a Heat flip bit more informative than lynching GR.

UNVOTE: Golden Robster
VOTE: Heat

Yeah, kinda.

My gist was that it was very possible that in his wifom, Ras decided to give the names of 3 townies rather than go for the more standard mixed group. Ofc, its wifom, but it's a bet I'm taking and hoping I cash out huge on.

[Ircher]

Why not?

[Ircher]

Seriously, it gives us (town) more time. And, if we no lynch twice, it forces scum to choose two nks

[Ircher]

UNVOTE:

Well, ok, what's your suggestion as to who to lynch?

[Ircher]

Any of you

[Ircher]

I'll respond tommorrow, hopefully

[Ircher]

Well, my gist as far as the Axle nk is that Axle is prob. the best player still alive right now. While he isn't always right, he does good job of looking town and always makes supported reads. In other words, it would be very difficult, though not impossible, for scum to frame and have Axle lynched in LyLo.

[Ircher]

Meh
VOTE: Massive -- That's what I was thinking yesterday and I don't see any reason not to.

[Ircher]

@Heat - Why over Massive?

[Ircher]

Now, why?

[Ircher]

Hmmm.... Ok, I made up my mind:

Intent to hammer Axle in ~15 hrs (Idk, between 11 and 1 EST)

@Axle
Final comments?

[Ircher]

I dod not look through Heat's ISO today like I said I would.

While I feel a bit uncomfortable with an Axle lynch, I don't have any good scumreads right now, and executing a lynch seems to be better than no lynch. I request that Massive does not hammer beforehand.

Finally, I will try to look through Heat's ISO and maybe Keyser's ISO during the night phase.

[Ircher]

I'm not suddenly against no lynch, PK said it is a bad idea.

Axle is hard to get a good grasp on, Massive barely posts, you I have a mild townread and PK I have a mild townread on, so my choice is Axle or Massive, pick your poison.

[Ircher]

Well, my gist as far as the Axle nk is that Axle is prob. the best player still alive right now. While he isn't always right,

he does good job of looking town and always makes supported reads

. In other words, it would be very difficult, though not impossible, for scum to frame and have Axle lynched in LyLo.

Which as I read it amounts to quite significant amount of confidence I am town.
and according to you wouldn't get mislynched in LYLO.

and yet...

Hmmm.... Ok, I

made up my mind

:

Intent to hammer Axle in ~15 hrs (Idk, between 11 and 1 EST)

@Axle
Final comments?

So yes indeed

Now, why?

made up your mind

about what?
for what reasons?

Is this for instance the reason you have stated intent to lynch me?

Well, my gist as far as the Axle nk is that Axle is prob. the best player still alive right now. While he isn't always right,

he does good job of looking town and always makes supported reads

. In other words, it would be very difficult, though not impossible, for scum to frame and have Axle lynched in LyLo.

and I note you have stated intent before getting a vote or commitment from Massive, which is incompatible with this intent

Let's make this clear:

WE ARE USING ALL OUR TIME TODAY

which was something you seemed fairly adamant about earlier.

DISCLAIMER: Means up to 36 hrs before deadline.

[Ircher]

No, its cuz its you or Massive

[Ircher]

There was never any danger of me hammering Axle, so I can't imagine why Ircher even brought it up.

As noted, leaving this here.

VOTE: Ircher

Will check back in the morning on my way out.

You know what, that is a horrible vote.

@PK, @Heat --> Massive's the last scum, Axle is just over analyzing stuff.

Why SHOULDN'T I consider the possibility that you COULD hammer. You guys do idiotic stuff if I don't spell some stuff like this out to you, so I don't get why that's a scumread.

[Ircher]

Whoops, forgot my vote
VOTE: Massive

[Ircher]

We have to convince Heat though, as Massive/Axle are content on an Ircher lynch. Aka, Heat has the deciding vote.

[Ircher]

@Heat - Explaining the latter portion of today
This is not scum who are sitting on the fence waiting for the opportunistic vote. This is town who isn't very confident in his reads anymore

[Ircher]

@Axle

Assuming your town, then if scum nk'd you, no one would even think about looking at why the nk occurred. While today has seen you under pressure, scum would still see you as the biggest threat.

On the other hand, any other nk would provide info, as we would then know it wasn't conducted on skill alone.

@Massive
I'm sorry, but it is hard to keep up with your reads when you post so little and refuse to provide a readlist. So, again, it was a reasonable and worthwhile assumption to make that you might consider hammering Axle with deadline approaching in ~36 hrs.

@Heat
Please make your decision (state intent) in about 12 or so hrs.

[Ircher]

Spoiler: Heat ISO Notes

1. When I brought up PL, Heat responds with 114 117, 162, and 204 -

When looking at it, I still see a "Ircher doesn't look genuine here, so I'm going to test him" type motive from Heat here. Regardless of the case, I see a genuine reason for Heat to express suspicion of me here, and that healthy suspicion leads to a townread.

2. The associative case of 194 by Ras also leads to a townread.

3. 198 does not look like scum asking scum questions. -

Again, what I see motive wise here is Heat wants to know why Ras gives him a bare townread. I don't see any hidden pretexts here.

4. Early on, AI expresses a scumread of Heat for "opportunistically voting Ircher". The logical reaction as conducted by Heat is to scumread AI, esp. considering AI wasn't supporting his read at all. -

Again, you notice the pattern -- even if Heat may be wrong, etc, Heat has yet to show any scum motive in his actions.

5. 1049 by Heat follows the pattern.

6. 1417 by Heat is an example of a concept called "empathy". -

What I like a lot about this post is the fact that Heat was not only able to consider the possibility I was town, but he also thought about how he would react in such a position. Sure, scum could make such a post, but when the target is very likely to get lynched eventually, that just seems like it's making scum's job harder. The way Heat was able to see my perspective and think about it from an unbiased perspective really makes me townread him. Empathy is a concept I think Boon couldn't understand well this game.

So, my strongest townread right now is actually Heat.

I've already explained my view of PK though I gotta keep in mind he can be sneaky at scum, aka, someone to look at during lylo.

Finally, I have a mild townlean on Axle as I don't see him pushing a scum agenda. Unfortunately, his analysis of stuff is a good way to keep suspicion off of him. Now that I spilled the beans about Axle and tonights nk, I wouldn't be surprised if scum choose a different target. (Thanks a lot, Axle )

That leaves me with Massive. Massive has done very little scumhunting and partially wants to lynch me just because I added in a part tellling him not to hammer Axle. It is no unheard of for someone to just go hammer someone early, so I added it as a precaution to allow Axle some time to speak, and what I get out of it is apparently a scumread (granted its not the only reason) and a L-1 vote.

@PK
I'm fine with an Axle lynch but would prefer a Massive lynch. Massive looks more opportunistic in his voting of me than Axle does. Axle has at least explained his read whereas Massive is not expressing his views well and continues to use his meta as an excuse for providing virtually zero useful content. While with all the other slots, I actually see good reasons to townread them, I do not with Massive.

Assuming:

1. Lynch Massive, Axle NK'd --> I would lynch PK next simply because I'm town and PK acts the same regardless of alignment.

2. Lynch Massive, Someone else NK'd --> I would lynch Axle

3. Lynch Axle, I'm NK'd (doubtful) --> Lynch Massive

4. Lynch Axle, Massive NK'd --> Would reexamine evidence. (PK may not have a motive for NKing Massive)

5. Lynch Axle, Someone else NK'd --> Lynch Massive

6. Lynch Ircher, Axle NK'd --> Please lynch Massive

7. Lynch Ircher, Massive NK'd --> Please lynch Axle

8. Lynch Ircher, Someone else NK'd --> Please pick your poison

9. No Lynch, Axle NK'd --> No Lynch again, but wait til 36 hrs before deadline

10. No Lynch, Someone else NK'd --> Pick your poison (don't no lynch)

Last of all --> Wanna know why I don't think I'll be nk'd? Simple --> It isn't too hard for scum to present a case against me and get me mislynched.

[Ircher]

Crud. Got hammered an hr ago......

[Ircher]

@Axle : Simple --> Opportunism.

@All --> My dwath wish 6,7,8 from above.

[Ircher]

@PK --> I am 70% sure Heat's town. Seriously, would not recommend lynching him lylo.

[Ircher]

Last of all -->

USE YOUR TIME TOMORROW

. Don't be stupid, actually do stuff, discuss, etc before deadline then make a decision 36 hrs from deadline or later.

[Ircher]

No voting tomorrow in LyLo til a concensus ~36 hrs from deadline.

[Ircher]

We already lost!!! UGH!!!

[Ircher]

I knew scum had an encryptor

[Ircher]

@pk -- I am rather angry with you right now. WHY IN THE FREAKING WORLD DID YOU COMPLETELY IGNORE MY POSTS RIGHT BEFORE MY FLIP?

[Ircher]

I specifically said "DON'T VOTE", even bolded it cuz scum could quickhammer just like that

[Ircher]

And RC:

Everyone made mistakes this game.

Axle basically drove every mislynch this game. Doesn't mean I don't respect him.
Boon lolhammered UTL and forced a FN claim on you. He didn't know you were a RB.
You never gave any reasons to back up your reads, so people ignored you.
Heat basically got it wrong the entire game.
Raskol overdefended the PK wagon.
I, well, 've made plenty of mistakes here.
Massive hammered Performer --> That was a mistake
PK voted a player in 3p LyLo.

Point being, WE ALL MADE MISTAKES

[Ircher]

So, please stop acting as if you are the star townie who got messed up by an inconsiderate townie.

We all tried and we all made mistakes. No need to aggravate everyone in post game with your bickering.

[Ircher]

I played that game as optimally as I could have under the circumstances.

Massive hammered Performer --> That was a mistake


Not when no one punished him for it besides me and he was free to NK me because of the FN shenanigans.

As I pointed out in dead thread --> I pointed that out at the start of D3 I believe. I forgot about it D5 though.

[Ircher]

And, you had plenty of time to post you were a RB & planned to RB Massive D3.

[Ircher]

Cuz, you were discussing the hammer with Boon. In fact, FN came after the hammer, so what the heck?!

[Ircher]

Lol, I like how scum legit thought that AI & I were masons!

[Ircher]

Can anyone give me a review of my play?

[Ircher]

@RC Maybe you did, but all of us missed it cuz of all the rolefishing & normal RC behavior surrounding it.

[Ircher]

You do realize you are **this*** close to being on my ignore list. Regardless Right/Wrong, I'm going to mostly ignore anyone who likes to fakeclaim guilties, wants everyone to sheep without providing reasons, and presumes he is a god who is omnifiscent.

[Ircher]

^ Exactly

[Ircher]

I was mostly sheeping Axle's

[Ircher]

@Axle & @RC
Mina wrote a wiki article on

****______NOT FAKECLAIMING GUILTIES______****

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... ts_as_Town

[Ircher]

Yeah, srry Boon, I didn't see the connection

[Ircher]

Updated my sig to include this game. Thanks for modding, Dier. And, I was enjoying it the entire time!