Mini 1782 Game Over

[Maverick1102]

Welcome to the, wait for it, Danger Zone!

Also /confirm

[Maverick1102]

Here, ready to sheep.

V/LA until Sunday afternoon (3/04) by the way, because I work far, far too many hours in the weekend.

[Maverick1102]

Why would that be a policy lynch?

[Maverick1102]

...maverick is town.

Whilst I shan't dispute this, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion based on three pretty contentless posts from myself. I'm thinking it's a reaction test? If so, to what end?

I'm not a massive fan of APF's #29 It's very forced and reactionary which simply doesn't need to be the case on page two in pre-game. Hilariously defensive with a voteless OMGUS essentially. Roshar summed it up pretty well in the next post with this, which was my thoughts pretty much upon reading.

But you're hard-defending.

What I don't like about Roshar's thoughts on Policy lynches isn't that she disagrees with them, (I disagree with the concept of Policy lynches anyway) but that she wouldn't policy lynch straight away, she'd save them for D2 'in case we have no leads'. It looks like trying to to the nice thing, but comes across as 'we're saving that lynch for later' which simply appears scum-motivated to me. This brings us to her #32 in which she kind of dispels the above, but doesn't really close the case. Lynching an 'unreadable' player D2 in any case is quite likely either scum-motivated or bad play. How you can suggest that you won't have stronger reads than 'unreadable' D2 doesn't sit well with me, and the whole debacle seemed to ignore the posts so far from APF and RC especially. I'm not getting a massively strong read from this in pre-game since it seems more of a theoretical debate than a serious push on a PL D2 due to the lack of game-specific context throughout, but not only does it appear to me as scum-motivated, I also totally wanted to wade in and give my 2 pennies on Policy Lynches. (They're bad.)

If it makes you feel better I really really do want you to be on my side this game.

The terminology in this alarms me. 'My side', not 'Town' or something like that. Don't like this at all.

I also dislike This post 'If he's town and this is actually his scumhunting then I think town is better off without him anyway.' Going on about how being certain in reads is a scumtell, but for several pages as far as I can follow APF appears to be RC's strongest scumread based on a style of play more than anything. I don't like it either and players trying to call the game early especially in such a manner as APF did irritates me, but it just seems very forced and aloof to me.

So far, I don't like Roshar's play - it looks the most scum-motivated of the bunch and so I'll

Pre-Game FOS: Roshar

. This is followed by RC, APF and then everyone else is pretty null to me right now.

First Wall of the game, get in. *Punches air in delight*

[Maverick1102]

I'm not going to read meta because A) It's easy as hell to change your own meta, and B) you've just asked me to check your meta. What makes you town or scum in another game doesn't apply to this game, and you can play against your meta in different alignments in different games. What an awful post.

FOS: RC

too now.

[Maverick1102]

Are you going to counter every argument I make with 'you don't know how to read me', or just this one?

Ninja'd: I'd quite like to know that too.

[Maverick1102]

You seem quite defensive which is peculiar given that my main FoS at that point was Roshar. Can you reiterate your views/reads and reasoning on Roshar for me please?

[Maverick1102]

It just seems that my viewpoint on Roshar would appear to align with yours, however I'm being dumb for having a mild (at best) scumread on you. I really don't like the reference to your own meta and implying that I need to learn how to play with you seems to be an easy out for dismissing my arguments.

Why are you being so obtuse?

Ninja'd: What? You can't just insist that someone stops talking to you in a game. Feel free to answer my question on Roshar above and why you think they're scum and I may well be satisfied and leave well enough alone.

What do you make of all this, FA?

[Maverick1102]

So you'd say this is out of character for RC, aye?

[Maverick1102]

All I asked for is why you think Roshar is scum. If you're unwilling to even asnwer that, I don't know what you would expect me to think.

Ninja'd: You really need to stop telling me how to read you. I'll read you according to my gut instinct and reading through what's in front of me. I'm not yet satisfied that you're town because you seem completely unwilling to answer simple questions, in pregame no less!

I don't recall asking you if you're town or scum. I distinctly seem to remember asking you about Roshar.

What're your thoughts on this other than a semi-philosophical statement?

[Maverick1102]

I don't make cases on people until I'm like 90% sure they're scum.
So you're going to have to wait for that.
Short answer is I don't like the way he talks, he's spent way more time talking about stuff in general than scumhunting, and there's some horrible playing both sides and waffling, especially when he was responding to 124.

I didn't ask you to make a case. That short answer is all I wanted.

[Maverick1102]

RC is town.

FA is meh.

Posts like this I find are pretty unhelpful. Why am I and RC town, and why bother mentioning that FA is meh if you aren't going to provide reasoning?

[Maverick1102]

VOTE: roshar

This guy is barely holding it together and we've just started. Come do this with me and watch this poor rube flail. His ISO reeks of careful scum... already, somehow.

Also clumsy's ham-handed "omg how many scum are there guyz" is the worst fake-townslip I've seen in a while. which is saying something.

maverick is town.

There, RC.

And fair enough, but I can't read your gut. Any scumreads further than Roshar?

[Maverick1102]

I'm asking for you to participate to an extent further than 'X is scum', RC. I know you could do that as either alignment. I just want you to make little cases so that I can start to read you further than 'This guy is annoying as hell'.

[Maverick1102]

The game pretty much has started. We're all able to talk so everyone should be talking. Refusing to do so because we're in 'pregame' is more arrogant than anything else. We won't come up with any magical new info when it turns to D1 now will we?

[Maverick1102]

That's fair enough, but I'd like to think that by talking for almost 10 pages whilst it's more contentless and RVS'ey than most games it's also given us a leg-up on scumhunting D1.

[Maverick1102]

So what's going to change when D1 starts that will prompt interaction from you?

[Maverick1102]

@RC: Yeah but I couldn't see scum chainsawing hard this early in the game so in spite of it not looking great it actually comes across as townie to me.

Ninja'd: JfSF - can we expect a jump in your information and questioning output when D1 starts? Because if so, why are you just making noise right now? I can appreciate the distinction you make between pregame and D1, I just don't understand why you're seemingly happy to dismiss 10~ pages of (admittedly patchy) content. Fair enough if you're busy you're busy but at least comment more productively because I want to get a read on you more than 'Yawn, they make noise'.

Shaddowez makes this point too in #267 with a bit more invasive pointedness.

Ninja'd: Everyone stop ninja'ing me.

Ninja'd: ^^

[Maverick1102]

EBWOP: I get that it's harder to apply pressure since votes don't currently count, but I already have opinions on people going into D1 gametime which I'm happy with.

[Maverick1102]

Do you have any reads you'll feel like pushing when D1 starts in an hour or two?

[Maverick1102]

Yes, I'd like to hear if you'll be coming out the blocks at a fast pace come D1 and will be pushing on anyone in particular.

[Maverick1102]

FA who's your top scumread at this early point of the game?

[Maverick1102]

I tend not to use meta at all - like I say it's easy enough to adjust your own meta and play against it if the game demands it so I shan't acknowledge it as something to lynch someone on.

I'm not a fan of RC's play so far but it's apparently something I'll get used to. Still leaning scum on him.

Nos and Clumsy need to post more, as does Keintepes.

Ninja'd: I kind of like the honesty in that last post. Slide that leaning-scum up to null.

[Maverick1102]

pedit : I have a meta of correctly reading RC.

I'm just pointing out that statements like this I shan't be looking seriously because in my opinion meta is useless.

[Maverick1102]

Page top to annoy FA.

Ninja'd: Ugh, damnit.

[Maverick1102]

Seems a fair enough point FA

[Maverick1102]

APF, when Pre-game turns to D1 will your vote remain on mhsmith and why?

[Maverick1102]

VOTE: A Plain Farmer

I like Roshar's recent posts, and I'm happy with this being my vote until such a time as someone else occurs to me as more suspicious.

Calling for more activity from Clumsy, Lovell, Nos, Kein and mhsmith. Froot as well.

[Maverick1102]

Nos, why does only one of your 10 posts have any original content whatsoever?

[Maverick1102]

EBWOP: Original, Game-Related content, that is.

[Maverick1102]

I hate that my read has changed so quickly, but I quite like the logic in that from Roshar. UNVOTE: APF

VOTE: Clumsy

Also, I quite like perusing people's readlists so please, if you want to post them feel free to.

[Maverick1102]

I also recall asking why I was town in Lowell's opinion too.

Ninja'd: Would still like to know what motivated it given that I really hadn't spoken much at that point.

Ninja-ja'd: I have to roll with Nos on that one. Whilst I'd like her to participate with more posts like the #368 you quoted, I can't help but want to know why you think that's scummy. I don't appreciate how Jake is acting, but playing so blatently anti-town just isn't something I can see scum doing so early into D1.

[Maverick1102]

maverick is town.

RC is town.

FA is meh.

Have any of these reads changed, Lowell?

[Maverick1102]

Froot loops, Kain, FA and Shaddowez definitely seem to be slipping under everyone's radar at the moment. Not much conversation from or about these.

Ninja'd - I can't see JSF as scum being so directly confrontational so far so I'm slipping him into the leaning-town category.

Also, it was directed at both of you sure.

Ninja-ja'd: Aye, well, same.

Nosja'd: Would like to see an answer to the following from Smith too:

what's the proposed scum agenda behind jake's actions?

[Maverick1102]

It's more that the slot is slipping under the radar, not the player themself.

[Maverick1102]

I think the point of active lurking is to coast without drawing attention to yourself. Jake is doing plenty of that.

[Maverick1102]

I like both the Nos and the JSF Wagons. I quite liked Froot Loops' reminder that 'Too scummy to be scum' isn't a thing, so I reread Jake in ISO. Despite a fair amount of posts in both pregame and D1, there is still very little to work with and if I'm honest, it seems like he's making it difficult to read him.

Would town do this? Probably not.

Jake appears to hunt for towncred, it just comes across as tone in some posts but in posts such as his #521, where he appears to overstate his usefulness to the town for brownie points:

I've already done more in this game than most of the other players because I have 2 scum reads and have voted both of them.

He also seems to be tunnelling on what is, to me at least, a quite weak argument, which seems like it led on from a serious push on a policy lynch (lynching a player because you know what they play like in other games pretty much amounts to policy lynching, imo.) that it seems clear he intended to push from pregame. I can't actually see why JSF is voting for mhsmith other than he dislikes readslists and they've butted heads a little bit. It's weak as hell and very tunnelly. A lot of what he makes is just noise and rather than trying to convince everybody else that his target is scum, he seems happy to merely go back-and-forth with mhsmith.

UNVOTE: Clumsy
VOTE: Jake from State Farm

[Maverick1102]

I've already done more in this game than most of the other players because I have 2 scum reads and have voted both of them.

=

'Look at me I'm so town! Town town town so dont lynch me cause Im town.'

Second, you mention I had a lot of posts that had no content but that's not true at all. You can't expect people to post pregame, it's optional and refusal to play pregame isn't alignment indicative.

This isn't a case, this is just words.

Third, I find your unvote on me came due to pressure you were receiving from multiple players (nos/mav).

This is misrepresentation. I never put any pressure on mh to remove his vote at all.

Fourth, you decided to come back to questioning me right after Nos starts questioning me asking me very similar questions as him.

= 'This guy is scum because he thinks I'm scum. Henceforth, I have found scum look at me well done me.'

Looking forward to your response, Jake. More looking forward to everyone else's thoughts on this.

[Maverick1102]

Feel free to not respond but if you don't fancy bringing me around to your way of thinking, then you must either be town with no faith in your target, or (much more likely) scum.

[Maverick1102]

Why aren't you trying to convince people that your target is scum? If you don't want mhsmith lynched then why are you voting for him?

[Maverick1102]

Third, I find your unvote on me came due to pressure you were receiving from multiple players (nos/mav). This is misrepresentation. I never put any pressure on mh to remove his vote at all.

Sorry I did want to respond to this. I never said people were pressuring him to remove his vote.

Third, I find your unvote on me came due to pressure you were receiving from multiple players (nos/mav).

And for the record, I'm not asking you to change your play. I just find your play scummy as hell.

[Maverick1102]

Third, I find your unvote on me came due to pressure you were receiving from multiple players (nos/mav).

Sorry I did want to respond to this. I never said people were pressuring him to remove his vote.

Mostly because it looks to me like you're lying now about what you were saying. Why lie if you're town?

[Maverick1102]

That's a pedantic retort at best.

[Maverick1102]

It does not. It's apparent that you have no interest in coming across as town which is not particularly flattering for my read on you. But the fact that you're now lying and misrepresenting seems to just confirm my thoughts.

I'd be quite happily content with a JSF lynch today, and it will take a quite serious swing in the game for me to change my vote.

[Maverick1102]

Don't I dare? For someone who's not bothered about getting lynched you're becoming awfully defensive.

[Maverick1102]

SO 1 player is voting him, another is also questioning his voting me. That very looked like pressure to me and he backed off because of the two of your posts. The fact that he actually quoted one of your posts actually prove it imo.

oh and fyi, stop accusing people of being defensive like it actually means something. It doesn't. Town and scum both can be defensive.

Does a player voting him not count as applying pressure, yet he feels pressure? You're focusing on pedantic arguments to support your weak read on smith.

And yes, both can be defensive. However you're being defensive to the point of not pushing a read of yours (probably because you know it's weak as hell and you've been called on it) which comes across as backpedalling scum, not town.

[Maverick1102]

RC, thoughts on Jake?

[Maverick1102]

Why are you leaning town and not scum on Jake?

[Maverick1102]

Nos, your thoughts on Jake too please.

[Maverick1102]

@Jake: You didn't prove me wrong. You lied about people applying pressure on mhsmith to make the retraction of his vote seem scummy. You're backtracking with pedantic little arguments that anyone ought to be able to see through, you've hunted for towncred and willingly ignored a large portion of the game. (People were talking in pregame. It's part of the game. Deal with it.) You claim you aren't being defensive yet you've gotten worked up about me thinking you're scum and are appealing to emotion by insinuating that you're angry about being called a liar. Bull. You're angry about being caught out. You claim you're looking for reads elsewhere whilst your vote remains on mhsmith. Well if you're looking for reads, what do you think of me? Of Roshar? Of FA? Of APF? Or are we all still null-reads for you after 25 pages? Because that, too, stinks of lazy scum.

Nos-ja'd: @Nos: I can agree with Lowell's drifting. There's votes and some reads in there.

[Maverick1102]

I stand by what I've said. I will not be retracting.

[Maverick1102]

According to Jake, I have 'No respect for the game of Mafia' Brilliant. From my perspective, everything I have alleged is true, and now you're pissed. For the record I couldn't care less if I'm on your 'blacklist'. That's another AtE - if he feigns anger at being called a liar, he's going to come across more towny, surely? If I weren't so sold already on my read I'd probably fall for it and move on but given your experience I'm happy to look at that as a calculated move from scum that isn't coming off.

[Maverick1102]

V/LA until 11/04 - working a tonne of hours due to the Grand National weekend here.

[Maverick1102]

Just checking in, letting you know that I'm here and catching up now. Shit would appear to have hit the fan with like a thousand replacements so I can't wait to find that bit.

[Maverick1102]

UNVOTE: Jake's Slot / Max

Re-reading I realise it's not the slot I didn't like, just the player. Honestly after reading what happened I had half a mind to replace out. Really a horrible D1 to be involved in.

Shamelessly going to jump on the Clumsy wagon because honestly, nothing else really jumps out at me as much as Jake did. The new replacements are meh, but at least they're civil.

[Maverick1102]

VOTE: Clumsy I totally forgot to vote there.

[Maverick1102]

I've asked for replacement sorry guys, I've messaged the moderator with why. Have a good game everyone!