Mini 1782 Game Over

[Frozen Angel]

/confirming

Also, I wouldn't policy lynch. I've played with young players (Isn't Kein 13?) and I'd usually only jump the wagon if 1)it's later in the game and we don't have any strong leads and 2) said player is bringing the game down 3) if lynching them would clear up a lot of info.

Shaddowez is hard-defending and RC's scrambling to put up a pre-counterwagon.

Looks like we've got our scum team, fellas.

But you're hard-defending.


@Plain farmer, how old are you if you don't mind me asking. Trying to put things in perspective.

/confirming

What a bad post

so you say he is a bad player but needs to live till the end to be omitted? policy lynches should happen as fast as possible or they will be tools for scum to just end game. I hate policy lynches anyway so...

Why is age even mater?

Pre vote Roshar

[Frozen Angel]

I'm strongly against all kind of policy lynches. I was just pointing out the paradox in what you said. if your suggesting a policy lynch and you say it must w8 till end game , thats not suggesting a policy lynch. thats keeping a prepared meat for a late feast - easy win...

[Frozen Angel]

yeah 3 mafia is a norm for mini normal setups

[Frozen Angel]

Hey RC

Roshar I like your avatar really much:]

What case against mhsmith?

[Frozen Angel]

APS is just branching around the bushes

he basically called half of the playerlist scum right now ...

[Frozen Angel]

I'm not sure how I missed F with S ... :/

[Frozen Angel]

no one is voting anyone. this is pre game.

and what are you even talking about those posts are clearly RVS.

[Frozen Angel]

that was @Roshar

All in all, no case at all. What was interesting though was that The plain farmer commented right after mhs's 'suspicious' post, so he obviously read it, but only found it suspicious after Lowell called it out.

This reasoning is bad for the record.
It's pretty common to just not think it was bad until someone points out stuff you hadn't seen.
That said, still think APF is scum for other reasons.

I'm not finding anything suspicious and vote worthy from mhs post. and I see absolutely nothing scummy about the Random stage votes (prevotes?) in the next posts.

pedit : sure you can try like always! VOTE: Radiant cowbells

[Frozen Angel]

But we're always suspicious that we are eachother buddy . aren't we?

[Frozen Angel]

Explain what?

Your always suspicious of me voting me in all the games. and you keep denying that.

[Frozen Angel]

anyway i liked your response right now.

You can be town for now.

[Frozen Angel]

yeah do that

I'm afraid not a scumbutt RC. sorry for disapointing you again

[Frozen Angel]

When she was implying that she was suspicious that I was scum she implied using 'each other's buddy'.
As in she's suspicious that I'm her buddy; as in she's scum.

You said your busying your partner in your first post! I was just talking with you with your same tongue!

[Frozen Angel]

and I'm suspicious your my town buddy now. Am I wrong?

pedit : I didn't refer us as scums ... god sake RC

[Frozen Angel]

This is a pointless topic. scums know each other. Its obvious as the day that both of us we're just joking.

Your push on me right now is iffy

[Frozen Angel]

It makes me feel hot.

Are you trying to see my rage ? I'm trying to control it and I promised several players to do that. You shall fail!

[Frozen Angel]

to don't do that ... *

[Frozen Angel]

May I refuse to give out my readlist before a day phase actually starts?

I want to just communicate with people freely without seeing their mind biased.

[Frozen Angel]

so why you ask how I felt about it ? if its not about detecting how much I'm upset about that vote?

[Frozen Angel]

RC answer my question please

[Frozen Angel]

what was different about me telling we are buddies and you saying lets buss each other?

[Frozen Angel]

huh

[Frozen Angel]

@RC : You said you hate when I react like this and asked me to stop it several times...

so you hate and like my reactions and town reading it in the same time?

[Frozen Angel]

Roshar what about plain farmer RVS was off ?

[Frozen Angel]

Don't be upset with yourself I forgive just as fast as I get upset

[Frozen Angel]

For clarifying : we won't talk about ongoing games on skype. we're just friends out of game and site as well.

[Frozen Angel]

what massages are you even talking about?

and I'm not insulting anyone - I promise

[Frozen Angel]

And I'm sure I didn't saw your name when I joined the game ...

I'm sorry that I didn't keep my promise.

[Frozen Angel]

to not join any games your in.

definitely. friends

[Frozen Angel]

Page top

:Shifty: wants all of the page tops!

[Frozen Angel]

oh no

didn't took it

[Frozen Angel]

ha?!

UNVOTE:

[Frozen Angel]

even though I'm not sure about RC behavior

[Frozen Angel]

is there anything about RC alarming you

or just the fact he is always scum?

[Frozen Angel]

You were confident that he is scum

Now your saying your suggesting a policy on him ?

[Frozen Angel]

I'm pretty sure APF is scum and it's only page 2.

[Frozen Angel]

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

Well, clearly we CAN, the question is whether we SHOULD. Or whether it'd just be fun to do for the lulz I guess

Thanks, coach.

pre-vote smith

Come, sheeple.

whats the case here?

[Frozen Angel]

:/

[Frozen Angel]

Also

fos smith

. oof, don't think i've forgotten this disasterpiece. he's an asskisser this game and defender of the meek, plain and simple, and I don't like it. Also as soon as someone says the phrase "reaction test" I want to dayvig them anyway. so this will work out fine. Less talk, more reckless lynching, please. come, sheeple, and vote.

reaction testing : http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65639

That's my method big guy. Are you scared of my method?

[Frozen Angel]

@APF: Absolutly. Also, RC is obv scum for reasons too secret for me to publicly explain.

Apf, nos, clumsy: is there a reason why you thought this post was serious?

why you posted it?

[Frozen Angel]

What was your agenda for posting it?

your the one who posted it! the burden of explaining it is on your shoulders

[Frozen Angel]

"big thing"

hahaha

whats a big thing?

[Frozen Angel]

what was RC saying?

[Frozen Angel]

good night then

[Frozen Angel]

^nice post

pretty much summed up my pov.

I'm still not sure if RC push on me makes him scum though. I know him better than any of you if thats a thing to consider . and his stubbornness and exaggerating his reads is a normal thing for him. I will w8 to see some signs that show me he is town or scum. he done neither.

[Frozen Angel]

But you stole the pagetop

is not satisfied! she demands all the page tops!

[Frozen Angel]

RC

wtf are you doing ?

[Frozen Angel]

who is hella dumb right now RC ?

me?

[Frozen Angel]

That RC is quite upset about something and I don't know what.

[Frozen Angel]

But I can figure you out RC. Do you remember the time you were a cult leader?

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

may I ask you to quote?

I did that for you.

What do you think he's doing in this game, then? For the record, he still stands by his 'case'. I do find it hard to believe scum would throw themselves this way, but I also cannot come up with a town thought process.

[Frozen Angel]

RC is town.

FA is meh.

fight me!

[Frozen Angel]

I don't put on my fighting gloves for a 'meh.' you wait your turn. I've got nothing but time, mon amie. On verra.

so mit mir tanzen!

[Frozen Angel]

Also

fos smith

. oof, don't think i've forgotten this disasterpiece. he's an asskisser this game and defender of the meek, plain and simple, and I don't like it. Also as soon as someone says the phrase "reaction test" I want to dayvig them anyway. so this will work out fine. Less talk, more reckless lynching, please. come, sheeple, and vote.

I play by gut, man, and my gut says you're town. What few posts you've made I've liked. I commented on RC and FA because they're the only ones talking.

I wasn't seeing you as a player who plays by gut ...

[Frozen Angel]

playing by gut and on the emotional aspects needs reaction testing.

You want to day vig whoever says he is reaction testing ?

I'm not following you

[Frozen Angel]

Did you know I as either alignment could provide a massive damning case on anyone in this game?

Don't scum or townread people based on the cases they provide or the reasoning they provide. Scum or townread them based on their motivations and how they do things.

ok RC this is the kind of post making me paranoid about you. your not a teacher. come and sit beside other students.

[Frozen Angel]

can we drop the topic nos is someone elses alt already?

[Frozen Angel]

jake what is stopping you to intract with people?

pedit : pm already covered that joke in shop large game . and i hate that game. dont remind me that game plz

[Frozen Angel]

RC seems sensitive but I'm not sure what this indicates, while it's definitely not useful to town. I can't really see anything useful to the town in his responses to Maverick.

you don't know RC at all

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

The game is already started ...

we can't just vote

[Frozen Angel]

You lynch people to reaction test? now we're talking!

[Frozen Angel]

he s sensitive , weird and emotional. but thats definitely useful to town if he is one.

thats a meta ofc

[Frozen Angel]

RC isn't sensitive. An asshole maybe but not sensitive.

You don't know him at all

[Frozen Angel]

That's not about the game alone. I'm talking about his personality which you have absolutely no idea about.

[Frozen Angel]

Can we stop playing this game of who knows RC the best?

who is playing that game?

[Frozen Angel]

What does it matter? The game hasn't started yet so what else is there to do?

The game is started YO

[Frozen Angel]

vote is just a tool!

learn to live without it!

[Frozen Angel]

I know RC better than anyone in MS . whoever is claiming the opposite is a liar.

I was just fixing what others were saying about him.

That's not even an open topic to be discussed

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

huh

[Frozen Angel]

I didn't huh about that! My gut alarmed me when I read your last post.

and is the one who wants to capture page tops not me.

[Frozen Angel]

It was like you were trying to just point to importnat intractions to just been seen you pointed them as well without making anything out of them . asking about the reason behind Roshar prevotes when as I recall everyone already explained that - I see this an attempt to dreil the wagon which followed up with the recent still hot interaction about jake opinion about pregame.

[Frozen Angel]

Its weird for me to see you answer this hypocratic.

basically there is no wagon becuase there is no vote. your saying and pointing to the speed of the pressure on her. which is not weird at all to pressure someone to get out reads .

and I saw and managed wagons on scum and I saw other scums stopping them at L1 becuase its happening too fast. so I basically don't give a shit about the speed of wagons. if Roshar is scummy she will get wagoned and get lynched.

Its weird for me that you commented on other interactions - pointed to specific posts of APF that is bothering you but you basically ignored all the reasons people outed for scumreading rosh.

My gut has trouble with your catchup post. she is not happy

[Frozen Angel]

whats your read on their old read on rosh when your asking them about a fresh one?

[Frozen Angel]

he didn't done the same thing you did here there. he gave his reads and questioned someone else who gave reads on her.

why you didn't elaborate the question you asked in the first place?

[Frozen Angel]

What I don't like about Roshar's thoughts on Policy lynches isn't that she disagrees with them, (I disagree with the concept of Policy lynches anyway) but that she wouldn't policy lynch straight away, she'd save them for D2 'in case we have no leads'. It looks like trying to to the nice thing, but comes across as 'we're saving that lynch for later' which simply appears scum-motivated to me. This brings us to her #32 in which she kind of dispels the above, but doesn't really close the case. Lynching an 'unreadable' player D2 in any case is quite likely either scum-motivated or bad play. How you can suggest that you won't have stronger reads than 'unreadable' D2 doesn't sit well with me, and the whole debacle seemed to ignore the posts so far from APF and RC especially. I'm not getting a massively strong read from this in pre-game since it seems more of a theoretical debate than a serious push on a PL D2 due to the lack of game-specific context throughout, but not only does it appear to me as scum-motivated, I also totally wanted to wade in and give my 2 pennies on Policy Lynches. (They're bad.)

This is a part your post don't have. you didn't evaluate anything about her and just said "I don't see anything in there I would call scummy" which is shit becuase your not even evaluated her as town for yourself and basically making a shield against the pressure against her.

[Frozen Angel]

Refresh my memory what chainsawy means?

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... Version.29

[Frozen Angel]

[Frozen Angel]

You really should stop that.

why? Its 1 post in 25 posts of each page.

[Frozen Angel]

When the day starts I'll be reposting my original vote that I didn't realize didn't count cause we were in pregame.

what is your case against RC? "He is never town" ?

[Frozen Angel]

It's annoying

[Frozen Angel]

@Frozen you're constant pointing out things you find weird but never commenting on them is really annoying. You've been doing that to RC for a while now too. What is your read on him?

when I called something weird and didn't comment on it?

about RC I'm conflicted though ... I'm working on a read on him but his earlier play make no sense as his town/scum game ...

null slight town maybe

[Frozen Angel]

it's not FA tho. It's

I'm just a servant of lord shifty! shifty is the one who requested all the page tops .

But sure! I will talk to her about this and from now on actual posts will take page tops instead of a lonely shifty

[Frozen Angel]

FA who's your top scumread at this early point of the game?

I didn't like Roshar and shadows for the reasons I mentioned. I need more from Nos and lowell .

[Frozen Angel]

For the record, I've been town every time you've said that I don't feel like either of my games.

Correct?

nope.

[Frozen Angel]

If your town I will understand that later on and I'm confident about it.

[Frozen Angel]

These. You keep mentioning that you're the only one who can really read him, but so far you've got nothing.

Those comments are completly clear. whats your question about them?

And do you want me to proove that I can read RC ?

and when I said I'm the only one who can do that? I said I know him well. Don't try to misrepresent me

[Frozen Angel]

see? page top with content

anyway. RC way to response to my response after his push was something I expect from his town him.

I know a thing and two about his scum tells. He did none yet. his personality is irrelevant from his alignment.

[Frozen Angel]

I don't like the way I'm getting pushed too. I won't comment on anything related to my read on RC until I develop one. This is biassing me.

[Frozen Angel]

I meant I don't like the way your pushing me to talk about my RC read.

He can be very manipulative and I don't like to be manipulated by him so early and loose my vision about his scum tells.

I never stopped anyone to don't formulate their reads on anyone. I just hate when people formulate their reads based on personality facts.

pedit : they do contain content. your not paying attention.

[Frozen Angel]

This is a pointless topic. scums know each other. Its obvious as the day that both of us we're just joking.

Your push on me right now is iffy

This is saying I think his push on me is not a real push and he is trying to get a reaction test.

RC

wtf are you doing ?

He was doing a weird thing. weird is not scummy necessary. thats why I was trying to understand what was his agenda to post all those self meta. RC can be very manipulative in these things. He knows better than anyone those reasons he pointed out are not good reasons for anyone to townread him.

That RC is quite upset about something and I don't know what.

That's not necessary to game. From his wording and the way he was talking I guessed he is just upset about something and thats the reason he is posting these stuff. But I don't know what is the reason.

Did you know I as either alignment could provide a massive damning case on anyone in this game?

Don't scum or townread people based on the cases they provide or the reasoning they provide. Scum or townread them based on their motivations and how they do things.

ok RC this is the kind of post making me paranoid about you. your not a teacher. come and sit beside other students.

These are his only scummy posts. I never feel easy when RC talks about why he is town . I have memories about putting him in town pile and loosing the game for completly ignoring him as a possible liar .

[Frozen Angel]

Why do you say I can be manipulative? D:

becuase you have the most cunning manipulative award?

and bad memories about loosing to you ? Do you remember nether game?

[Frozen Angel]

Or the game everyone got rekt beside me who just replaced out when you were cult leader?

Your a manipulative little monster hon!

pedit : I have a meta of correctly reading RC. I know they are all a part of package but you can't scum read someone becuase he is aggressive or emotional or seems like an asshole.

That will just prove your an idiot.

[Frozen Angel]

I tend not to use meta at all - like I say it's easy enough to adjust your own meta and play against it if the game demands it so I shan't acknowledge it as something to lynch someone on.

this is not what I said

[Frozen Angel]

So you think he was faking it when he thought you slipped to get a reaction out of you? I thought that was pretty genuine on his part.

I can tell you that it definitely wasn't.

[Frozen Angel]

pedit : I have a meta of correctly reading RC.

I'm just pointing out that statements like this I shan't be looking seriously because in my opinion meta is useless.

That was an answer to Roshar who said I can't claim that. I can claim that and I already proved that.

That definitely doesn't mean I won't make mistakes and "I'm the only one who can reads him" though. That's just my opinion as someone who knows him better than you guys which makes my opinion slightly little more valid especially when its about his personality/behavior/reactions.

[Frozen Angel]

I didn't call anyone idiot. I just mentioned the point that scumreading people becuase of their personality is idiotic.

second I said that I can make mistakes and that was my first second mafia game.

third no you cant. ATE is not a scum tell. Its a personality dependent tell. being over reactionary and aggressive are Not scum tells at all.

[Frozen Angel]

My second mafia game. I was about to write first but i remembered it was the second and My first game was the one we were scum partners in ...

[Frozen Angel]

I just promised to not page top without content and you stole it?!

Come on!

pedit : !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Frozen Angel]

anyway!

If you have any problem with what I'm trying to say , you must know that your not the first one. I'm trying really hard to change this absolute wrong play to think people personality is related to their alignment.

Read my past games (all archived in my wiki) and maybe you understand that.

I'm going to sleep though

[Frozen Angel]

@Roshar

It

could

be a scum tell so it

can

be from town. That behavior by its own mean nothing about alignments.

Me myself , I'm a very reactionary and sensitive player.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65639

I even outed myself as a macho tracker when got pressured for something I felt is wrong . kept alive by scum to add wifom ; got two guilty results with my tracker on night 1 and 2 and paralyzed scum to the ground.

Don't attacking people who are attacking you becuase it may be omgus might end up in game throwing. in game shop mafia I was getting scum readed becuase my main scum read was zulfy who was scum who made a case against me. and he was really scum.

I can bring up thousands game for you to show you how ridiculous are these scum tells.

[Frozen Angel]

I have a exam today.

will post later - at night , I'm not caught up

[Frozen Angel]

It could be a scum tell so it can be from town. That behavior by its own mean nothing about alignments.

Not sure if I understood this right but here goes.
It could be either, it depends on how an individual reads it in it's context, which is my point. Like my post where you and 3 others read as scum-motivated, could also be read as coming from town. You weigh it out and see which speaks to you. This whole, my way is right, if you come to another conclusion you're an idiot needs to stop.

I'm not saying don't attack someone who's made a case on you. I'm saying attacking everyone on the thread who voices an opinion on you that you don't like can definitely be taken as scum tell.

Added quote tags.
~Ircher

You didn't understand what I wrote . not even close.

I have no hope in explaining that to people.

[Frozen Angel]

HELLO

hi!

[Frozen Angel]

I think that FA would be more inclinced to write me off as town here, especially since she's getting scumread for her indecisiveness.

ha?!

[Frozen Angel]

Froot loops, Kain, FA and Shaddowez definitely seem to be slipping under everyone's radar at the moment. Not much conversation from or about these.

what do you want to say about me. I'm here to answer.

[Frozen Angel]

the tone of your post is completely static and there's no reason it could be interpreted as sarcasm. This is why we have and Kappa and :^) and other such emoticons to denote sarcasm properly.

I saw sarcasm in his post tbh. I don't understand why your pushing this , this hard.

[Frozen Angel]

the tone of your post is completely static and there's no reason it could be interpreted as sarcasm. This is why we have and Kappa and :^) and other such emoticons to denote sarcasm properly.

So "RC is obv scum for reasons too secret for me to publicly explain" reads as not just serious but "no reason it could be interpreted as sarcasm" to you? Due to tone alone? Ignoring the obvious BS nature of it? Really?

just because it's stupid doesn't make it sarcastic. I don't know you. You could actually be that dumb.

this is a very bad response. Your making a mountain about a straw .

VOTE: Nosferatu

[Frozen Angel]

I didn't realize you were being sarcastic. Let's just get this out of the way, I'm not thinking you're scum here because of this post. I realize now that you thought it was sarcasm. I said that the initial reason was because I remember how you explained this post as sarcasm, and that it didn't make sense to me. I'm not voting you know because of that. If it was just that, I would've unvoted much before.

To make this as clear as possible, when I went to put down a vote once the game started, I remembered that you pinged me before with the sarcasm, but I know now that you genuinely believe you were being obviously sarcastic.

and backing up after seeing no one is following you. if you weren't scum reading that why you kept hard pressuring him for that?

and why your not commenting /pushing anything else?

and your basically empty vote on mhsmith don't count

[Frozen Angel]

I like Roshar and Jake more.

My null town lean on RC is now a null scum lean.

Lowell is not the town lowell I know.

[Frozen Angel]

I meant I liked them more than before.

and APF way of posting is not making me think scum about him. just a bit cotious ?

[Frozen Angel]

I said more. not quiet enough

and your about RC is from a genuine thought process which explain your semi tunneled vision behavior and refusal to cooperate in pregame. plus your attracting to much attention to yourself. what do you think about anyone else other than RC?

about Roshar , the discussion we had about how strong is personality can be considered as a scum tell make me think her past questions about things being genuine or not were genuine. plus her play after the day start is very active and noticeably strong.

[Frozen Angel]

That post is your pressure post . he asks you answer and continue talking about it when you later state your not scumreading him becuase of it . if its not worth to discuss why Its basically your whole ISO ?

do you have anything else to discuss? maybe a read?

[Frozen Angel]

No offense FA, but regardless of how well you know somebody, it's impossible to know if something is genuine or not, especially across the medium of typed text. The only way you can definitely know something right now is if you're in the informed minority.

No offense but I proved otherwise before.

[Frozen Angel]

and not alone in RC. ask nos who I found her as a mage before.

[Frozen Angel]

how*

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: RADIANT COWBALLS do not be RUDE....!!

what about RC posts was rude?

[Frozen Angel]

and not alone in RC. ask nos who I found her as a mage before.

you found me as mage cause

I

fucked up lol

<3

[Frozen Angel]

Yeah this makes me uncomfortable as well. Both me and Roshar were relatively easy targets at that stage (and, notably, Roshar had gotten some defense in thread by that point - I'm specifically thinking maverick in 339 but there might have been more), so "I picked X instead of Y" isn't super convincing.

I hate when someone call himself an easy target.

And I don't like your last post at all. your push on Jake seems ill

[Frozen Angel]

RC whats your read on mhs and shaddowz ?

[Frozen Angel]

I felt you don't beleive what your writing. you were just trying to repeat , put together , make a case on him and gather votes but your tone was like your trying to show its not what I'm saying like you wanna distance yourself from the push.

And when I feel something its usually true so I'm really suspicious about you right now.

[Frozen Angel]

Whats your initial reads on shadows and RC ?

[Frozen Angel]

You are trying to make yourself useful by asking questions that already have been answered or that don't really matter.

I felt this ^

[Frozen Angel]

Just like this game isn't like any of the RC games I've played with him either as jfsf or secret alts. It's different from both town and scum games

I can feel this with my all nones. he is playing so closed and won't share anything that help me to read him.

Is he afraid of the power of the sun?

RC don't be scum

[Frozen Angel]

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

It's not about any

pushing

, it's about the way he's talking like an idiot suggesting that people are confscum on the second page.
Most games that I've lost as town have been either due to tunnelers who can't reconsider things or to scum disguising themselves as tunnelers and getting away with it.
I'm going to policy lynch anyone who does that shit.

VOTE: JFSF

Not dealing with someone with that attitude, regardless of alignment.

Do you plan on actually trying to find scum, or are you just going to suggest policy lynches the entire game?

I don't like the fact your absent and distanced and suddenly appear to wine why someone is pushing a policy...

...

[Frozen Angel]

Post game remind me to ask you a question about post 505 ok shadow?

[Frozen Angel]

If you have point related to game why you want to w8 till end game?

[Frozen Angel]

I don't like the fact your absent and distanced and suddenly appear to wine why someone is pushing a policy...

How am I absent and distant? You seem to be defending RC an awful lot, for what appears to be no good reason.

What I'm doing is not defending RC,

I'm attacking you

[Frozen Angel]

If you have point related to game why you want to w8 till end game?

It's not necessarily related to the game per se. Plus I need to know his alignment first.

I'm curios

what is it going to be if he flips town?

what is it going to be if he flips scum?

[Frozen Angel]

what did I missed? your absent and distanced obviously. do you want me to quote your whole ISO ?

[Frozen Angel]

what did I missed? your absent and distanced obviously. do you want me to quote your whole ISO ?

I want you to explain what you mean...I'm here now, and when I can be, so claiming I'm absent makes no sense. And I'm really not sure what you mean by distant.

well absent doesn't mean your not here in this moment . It means you weren't around when any intractions was happening didn't commented on anything fres didn't engaged with anyone. the last means your distant.

[Frozen Angel]

what did I missed? your absent and distanced obviously. do you want me to quote your whole ISO ?

I want you to explain what you mean...I'm here now, and when I can be, so claiming I'm absent makes no sense. And I'm really not sure what you mean by distant.

Additionally, what do either of those have to do with me asking somebody about why they're pushing policy lynches above anything else?

I shared my feelings about both already. if you can't see that I'm null townlean on jake and scum lean on RC atm. RC plays seems a bit fake and closed that I'm not sure what is he trying to do and whats his agenda. plus RC is not suggesting policy lynches. he is not just playing open and you need analysing his posts to understand him - which is extremely hard becuase he is basically doing nothing.

and Jake push on RC is becuase he is afraid of RC play as both town and scum and he thinks RC didn't done anything to make him say otherwise.

none of them are policy lynches.

[Frozen Angel]

So do you think he made a bad town play there that you wanna comment on?

[Frozen Angel]

assuming I hadn't read game my vote could be considered a random vote, because that is what people do at the beginning of each game. It was how I planned to start the game as soon as I saw RC was playing but everything in that statement is true based on my experiences which makes my vote serious. Some people may write it off as a grudge vote which would be a valid assumption as well, but imo he has no useful skills that is worthy keeping around if he is town and if he is scum you definitely want him gone ASAP. This is the guy who double bussed his mafia partners hard and convinced town to lynch a gunsmith clear (or maybe it was a cop) to win the game as scum. he is very manipulative and impossible to read as either alignment. He should absolutely be the lynch today and until I see posts from other people that make me think they may be a better lynch. I like my vote where it is at. I don't really think anything said pre-game is going to change my mind but if you disagree please feel free to provide me links or quotes of posts I should consider.

Kind of felt that way. No offense.

[Frozen Angel]

I want to know what you think about others posts...

why does it matter?!

[Frozen Angel]

P.edit - which posts do you want to know about? The one from shadow? I dont like it

I precisely want to know why.

[Frozen Angel]

yeah

that will do

[Frozen Angel]

yeah

that will do

So since everyone things pregame was so important, important enough to care about me not participating in it. What did you get out of pre-game? Why didn't you place a serious vote once the day started based on pregame stuff?

i dont like the way you try to show that phase was seprate from now.

im pushing my reads and my vote on nos is sirious though.

[Frozen Angel]

The interactions between FA and RC have me on edge, and continue to do so. I don't think they're both scum, but wouldn't be surprised if one of them flips red. There's stuff I don't like from both of them, so I'd rather wait to vote there until I'm more sure.

ok

first pushing a false dilemma ...

there are things you dont like about me but you dont like me? you dont like my push on you?

[Frozen Angel]

but you wont talk about them *

[Frozen Angel]

im on phone so i wont post long stuff tonight...

im saying im continuing my play from free game and i feel no differnce between pregane and day phase.why do you think my vote on nos is only based on her play on day phase and has no relation to her no-play in pregame?

[Frozen Angel]

i dont think i need to post a case against everyone who i vote but if anyone gets my vote they can be sure its considering all of their play in mind.

[Frozen Angel]

Pregame you seemed to not like shadow and roshar and wanted more from nos. game starts you vote nos for him making a mountain out of a molehill or something like that.

If you were using pregame after the game started, I would think you would have voted one of the people you were suspicious of and not the one you needed more from. Just my opinion though.

why shouldnt i develop work on my reads? anything wrong with that?

[Frozen Angel]

or I could be town who doesn't care who you vote for

why do you care who i vote for? whats about my nos scum read you dont like?

[Frozen Angel]

why are you acting so hypocratic jake?

[Frozen Angel]

im scumreading nos.

and my vote is helping me to read other people as well.

[Frozen Angel]

thats the point he was posting nothing and suddenly all he was posting was about something bs and according to him later on : not alignment indicative

[Frozen Angel]

oh and fyi, stop accusing people of being defensive like it actually means something. It doesn't. Town and scum both can be defensive.

They can but your reaction / I don't care about getting lynched and your sudden hippocratic push on me "becuase I didn't start the day phase voting the same persons I called scum in pregame" is scummy as shit

[Frozen Angel]

actually

VOTE: Jake

[Frozen Angel]

I fail to understand a majority of FA's posts.

That's getting old news.

what do you fail to understand and why your not asking them?

[Frozen Angel]

I didn't acted like its important.

I know its important.

Its the fucking same day phase which I used to develop my reads.

the fact your asking people to stop telling you why your exclusivley playing close / refuse to get out reads / vote others when your asking me to do the same thing is the hypocratic action of yours

[Frozen Angel]

So you know it's important but decided to ignore it all and vote somebody else for a bad reason? Tsk tsk

I developed my reads and voted for someone to get reads from.

Stop your BS

[Frozen Angel]

I will vote whoever I want whenever I want.

[Frozen Angel]

I will pressure whoever I want to whenever I want to

[Frozen Angel]

I will scumread whoever is scummy and I don't fucking care if you think my vote is misplaced.

[Frozen Angel]

why your not talking about anything else?

[Frozen Angel]

Its hard for me to believe you find nothing else about all these discussions to comment on

[Frozen Angel]

Zut

I'm fucking done interacting with you tonight

[Frozen Angel]

VOTE: Nosferato

[Frozen Angel]

Why are you so worked up?

Because I feel talking with a stone when I'm talking with you.

[Frozen Angel]

Where's your Shadow read Nos?

I just read through his ISO. I like him, he's town.

you were playing the game . you were posting stuff in here when he was posting. You basically ignored all the posts of him/against him and now out of nowhere you need to read his ISO and you like it ...

[Frozen Angel]

Where's your Shadow read Nos?

I just read through his ISO. I like him, he's town.

you were playing the game . you were posting stuff in here when he was posting. You basically ignored all the posts of him/against him and now out of nowhere you need to read his ISO and you like it ...

If I wasn't obvious the point here is why you were ignoring him so far?

[Frozen Angel]

you're done with jake so that includes the vote as well or you've got something new on me?

I'm pissed at something else and I'm not in the mod to have a clear view on Jake crap. I'm in the mood to scum read him just for the sake of being him. I will delay evaluating my read on him for a time I'm calmer.

why you weren't interested in him is a question I like to see your answer.

[Frozen Angel]

you just repeated you have no interest in his posts becuase you have no interests in them and they didn't seem interesting.

and you like those posts so he is town

sorry but bah

[Frozen Angel]

Lie is abuse of others trust.

don't telling the truth or even giving out false info in a mafia game is not a lie as its happening in the game borders.

No one is attacking your integrity Jake.

[Frozen Angel]

now what do you have to say about his posts that make you think he is town based on that?

[Frozen Angel]

Calling that omgus is sick.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=55&t=64645

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=65639

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=53&t=64492

And thats not a scum tell of me. I do reevaluate my reads however I want to.

[Frozen Angel]

in the first one I omgused zulfy's BS case on me . everyone called that scummy - things got insulty and I replaced out. I was town/ he was mafia

In second one I completly reevaluated my read after my rant in day 1 and a fake hammer which helped me to find two scums in row during the nights.

In third one I started hard tunneling acryon as soon as he made a BS case on me. he was town and we lost the game for my tunnel vision.

I will reevaluate my reads whenever I want.

[Frozen Angel]

You waited a long time to made that move

I was expecting you to do that 2 days ago .........

[Frozen Angel]

anyway Answer and reads incoming.

[Frozen Angel]

That's the time you started interacting with me

I was surprised that you didn't find anything till last night to throw at me to make me look bad and you waited another day after it for everyone to get the feelings as well. Pretty good job on pushing dirt on me though

[Frozen Angel]

I will go and post a read on each slot separately tonight. This is pretty much what I did in ASIAOF last days which were right (plus my early scum read I pinged to all scum) but ended badly ...

Plus last 3 days I was busy as hell with my exams and teaching stuff. I'm busy all wednesdays as hell. If you ant to win a lylo and push a mis lynch on my slot just make sure lylo is wednesday. I might even self vote based on the pressure.

[Frozen Angel]

I started interacting with you yesterday and it was yesterday that you said stuff that I found questionable.

Blah I don't know

it feels like a long time ago

[Frozen Angel]

A False dilemma pushing ?

There are some logical fallacies you need to consider as well

Your questions are basically all loaded questions. Your saying your voting me becuase you think someone else is town which is a sick logical fallacy. Your hard tunneling RC. Your pregame refusal to play was Relativist Fallacy.

I will go case by case later.

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Kein Tepes

His only effort in game :

VOTE: RADIANT COWBALLS do not be RUDE....!!

Kein where are you!!?!

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Roshar

Also, I wouldn't policy lynch. I've played with young players (Isn't Kein 13?) and I'd usually only jump the wagon if 1)it's later in the game and we don't have any strong leads and 2) said player is bringing the game down 3) if lynching them would clear up a lot of info.

First thing : she says she won't policy lynch but if she find the slot useless she will PL the slot in late game becuase of age. This is pinging in all sorts. first age is not alignement indicative or related to policy lynches. second policy lynching at late game is death.

Second she started to push APF RVS (?) as a matter of fact and she posted so many stuff about it. I kind of don't like that push.

Which points did I regurgitate?

And wow there, there's still the option that you were noobish. Why jump to scum so quickly?

This is a kind of post I don't like. Like you don't have supporting arguments to make a push against someone and call them noobish , thats how I feel though.

Then its our argument about play styles and personality and omgus credibility as scum tells which make me rethink about your age comment mentioned before uprised my read on you from a scum read to a null one.

I see no alarming / nice comments on your day phase comments which makes my read on you stay on a null part. (slight scum lean but meh)

[Frozen Angel]

This case by case thing looks like a blatant effort to provide content. The fact that you mentioned you used it in another game where it works for you also makes it seem like you are trying to replicate your town meta.

In other words it looks fake and I find it scummy.

I wan't producing content or explaining my reads. whats your problem with me doing so right now? I don't have a town or scum meta. all my games are completly unique and Identical. be my guest on trying to understand it. I know you shall fail and be my 23rd person in list who tried that.

[Frozen Angel]

im sure people are going to have problems comprehending what I'm trying to say.

If FA were town imo she would have just started doing this stuff instead she basically says "hey guys I'm going to start doing this really awesome thing I did in another game, I was town and I had great reads for it "

Announcing it makes it seem like the motives aren't genuone.

I'm town btw. I promised to not insult but its a place I usually do that btw.

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Shadow

Spoiler: post 252

Yay, I'm back, and just tried wrapping my head around those 11 pages of pre-game....RPS (random posting stage)? Is it bad that I was hoping Kain forgot to confirm and was sad when I saw he actually posted?

The FA/RC interactions are odd. I'm not quite sure what to make of them, especially with the change in tone from the initial "bussing" conversation which seems to have gotten dropped.

APF's explanation of RC's "fake-townslip" in 142 and 144 are non-sensical (at least to me). It feels like he was trying to get traction early on, and when that failed backpedaled to justify himself. He's also throwing up readslists already, which always read as scummy to me since there's no effort required and are easy to fake activity.

I've never been in a game with scum!Lowell that I can recall, but I'm prety sure every game I've been in with him he's been mislynched, and so far his posting reminds me of those games.

What's the reason behind people (pre-)voting Roshar? I don't see anything in there I would call scummy.

While I agree with Jake's sentiment about this pre-game/long D1 phases, I don't necessarily think this will extend D1. The first few days of a standard game are random anyway, and people are reacting to accusations/pre-votes just like they do in RVS. There's as good a chance as any that an actual vote will happen before deadline because of this. I disagree with his reluctance to interact just because of the phase name, though - does that mean you don't interact in Twilight, since nothing counts then either?

Pre-Vote: Jake from State Farm

ok I already mentioned how I felt this post is a pretty much fake catchup post.

@jake why you didn't ask Shadow why he didn't voted you after pregame like his prevote? I didn't even put a prevote on someone. whats different about him?

I liked shadow 437. His points are genuine.

Sorry for the delay, but Nos' ISO dive as promised.

Her first 10 posts have pretty much no game related content (Her second post has a few one liners that she never follows up on).

She doesn't say she's not engaging in pregame, but makes a comment in 345 that there's only been one post since game started, and lays down a naked vote on smith. She then has several other posts with little to no content, except for what appears to be WKing Jake (368 and 379).

She says she's going to unvote smith since he backs down from Jake's case, then never does. There are basically no posts with content that don't revolve around Jake, or mentioning that she's not going for "low hanging fruit".

This makes me feel much better about Jake as town, and definitely has me keeping my vote where it is.

This is basically my view about Nos.

I don't like the fact your absent and distanced and suddenly appear to wine why someone is pushing a policy...

How am I absent and distant? You seem to be defending RC an awful lot, for what appears to be no good reason.

I'm taking back my last point about you. clearly I wasn't paying attention to your day phase posts.

The interactions between FA and RC have me on edge, and continue to do so. I don't think they're both scum, but wouldn't be surprised if one of them flips red. There's stuff I don't like from both of them, so I'd rather wait to vote there until I'm more sure.

and I need to know why your pushing a dilemma here and why you feel there is a scum here. Your not talking about it but keep mentioning it is alarming.

Shadows (Null- slightly town lean)

[Frozen Angel]

Like I said my problem isn't that you are doing it. It's the way you did it and also the timing seems off.

The way I'm doing it is the way I'm doing it

and i already explained what is going on with my timing so pehhh

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Clumsy

I don't think so? That whole exchange was just weird and I don't know what to get from it.

@APF: Absolutly. Also, RC is obv scum for reasons too secret for me to publicly explain.

how the fuck can someone be obviously scum in a way too secret to be explained.

I meant to address this earlier too. If you do have some magic way of knowing that, you'll have to tell us this "secret" reason or you won't be getting those votes.

well clumsy early posts - which are all his posts are about the most mentioned topics and he basically didn't made anything out of them.

-_- If you would care to look at my game history, I only have 2 completed games here. Both of them Newbie games. 9 players, 2 scum. Haven't been in a 12 person game. I thought there would be 3 scum, but I wanted to make sure so I didn't have any errors in logic. The fact that you think it's a ham handed fake townslip is one of the more egotistical things I've seen in a while. Which is saying something.

this is a very alarming answer to the point lowell made (about his "how many scum are usually in a mini normal") but satisfiable. I basically don't get these kinds of posts alignment indicative.

What caused the tone shift here Roshar? You went from patient to aggressive. When I said that, I meant that I would read things and also read specifically what happened with you guys.

This is a very quiet interesting point about roshar which I missed in my reread as well.

currently half town reading Clumsy but asking him to elaborate his reads on shadow

[Frozen Angel]

FA, I could see Jake scum but don't want to lynch him today.

Who is your biggest scumread besides him? Make a case for me please!

I'm catched up / read the game during past 2 days but I wasn't deeply paying attention.

I'm sorting my head and clearing up my reads.

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Maverick

best mave post during whole game was his post 150

What I don't like about Roshar's thoughts on Policy lynches isn't that she disagrees with them, (I disagree with the concept of Policy lynches anyway) but that she wouldn't policy lynch straight away, she'd save them for D2 'in case we have no leads'. It looks like trying to to the nice thing, but comes across as 'we're saving that lynch for later' which simply appears scum-motivated to me. This brings us to her #32 in which she kind of dispels the above, but doesn't really close the case. Lynching an 'unreadable' player D2 in any case is quite likely either scum-motivated or bad play. How you can suggest that you won't have stronger reads than 'unreadable' D2 doesn't sit well with me, and the whole debacle seemed to ignore the posts so far from APF and RC especially. I'm not getting a massively strong read from this in pre-game since it seems more of a theoretical debate than a serious push on a PL D2 due to the lack of game-specific context throughout, but not only does it appear to me as scum-motivated, I also totally wanted to wade in and give my 2 pennies on Policy Lynches. (They're bad.)

This was basically whatever I felt , mentioned and hated about Roshar pregame. which I liked to see how he putted them in to words in his catchup post.

I'm not going to read meta because A) It's easy as hell to change your own meta, and B) you've just asked me to check your meta. What makes you town or scum in another game doesn't apply to this game, and you can play against your meta in different alignments in different games. What an awful post.

FOS: RC

too now.

His push on RC seems pretty genuine. the way he is asking questions about RC behavior is what I like about his posts. then he tried to evaluate that read and backed his push off after RC short explanation.

Plus his later questioning in pregame is pretty good.

I like both the Nos and the JSF Wagons. I quite liked Froot Loops' reminder that 'Too scummy to be scum' isn't a thing, so I reread Jake in ISO. Despite a fair amount of posts in both pregame and D1, there is still very little to work with and if I'm honest, it seems like he's making it difficult to read him.

Would town do this? Probably not.

Jake appears to hunt for towncred, it just comes across as tone in some posts but in posts such as his #521, where he appears to overstate his usefulness to the town for brownie points:

I've already done more in this game than most of the other players because I have 2 scum reads and have voted both of them.

He also seems to be tunnelling on what is, to me at least, a quite weak argument, which seems like it led on from a serious push on a policy lynch (lynching a player because you know what they play like in other games pretty much amounts to policy lynching, imo.) that it seems clear he intended to push from pregame. I can't actually see why JSF is voting for mhsmith other than he dislikes readslists and they've butted heads a little bit. It's weak as hell and very tunnelly. A lot of what he makes is just noise and rather than trying to convince everybody else that his target is scum, he seems happy to merely go back-and-forth with mhsmith.

UNVOTE: Clumsy
VOTE: Jake from State Farm

the way he tries to explain his reads are fine but I get paranoid about the amount of explanation in everything. This is something differ from people to people so I'm not sure what is that telling about mav.

His later push on Jake got better each post. jake responses make me feel go both ways about him (looking at him as a bad town / or a scum trying to appeal to emotions fake towning) so I can understand his pressure.

feel town about mave

[Frozen Angel]

Maybe I'm getting distracted by the pretty pictures

[Frozen Angel]

@FA. I'm not bad anything. Thank you

Well then whats up with all your logical fallacies and hypocritical posts?

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

a plain Farmer

can we policy lynch kaintepes?

Well, clearly we CAN, the question is whether we SHOULD. Or whether it'd just be fun to do for the lulz I guess

Thanks, coach.

pre-vote smith

Come, sheeple.

Good idea.

pre-vote mhsmith0

Let's get him all the way up to L+5.

I see this as RVS unlike Roshar

When I first read it, I thought RC was saying that FA had slipped by wondering if RC was one of her buddies. This would've been a fake town-slip because the underlying assumption would have been that the scum PT had probably already been created. But no, on further reflection I see what RC was saying and don't think it's a town-slip, fake or not.

This is a genuine way of thinking about that. I can see him seeing this that way. But its an easy to fake pov so I consider it null

Your pre-vote against Roshar seems to have some substance, but that was a Page 2 vote.

Lowell's vote in 126 makes absolutely no sense to me, as I'm not sure where Roshar is not "holding it together". Does this make Lowell scummy to me? No, because he may have reasons that I just don't understand.

RC wants to pressure him in 189. That's not reason in and of itself, I want to know why RC wants to pressure him. I also don't see where Roshar calls RC scum like he accuses.

Any reason you didn't question Maverick on 163 when he does the same thing I did here, and never got any responses?

It seems lazy to me (but not "super chainsawy" as RC had asked). Lowell's vote was an admitted gutread, RC had given reasons for scumreading Roshar in 176, and, as FA pointed out, this doesn't address Maverick's 150.

I can think of both town-motivated (well, not town-motivated, but rather town-compatible) and scum-motivated reasons for it having been thrown together like this. Town-wise, shad was being pushed on this position and sometimes people will try and put up a face-saving defense even if the position is weak. Scum-wise, it could still be seen as something like that, but also as a bit of cover for something he might've been worried would suggest an informed perspective.

Mhsmith's posts since the day has began have been OK. I'm not a huge fan of his vote on Jake or even his withdrawal of it, but my first instinct is to say that his line of thinking has been coming from a town perspective. Are his prior transgressions still enough to warrant my first real vote? mmmmmm......no. No they're not.

VOTE: shaddowez

I'm also sympathetic to the Clumsy wagon.

I like the way he represented what everyone said about shadowz and pointed out his opinion about him. although I don't like the way he is following his null(town lean?) on Mh with shadowz vote. it implies that they are related.

from his post 499 forward (I'm looking in his ISO though) he started explaining his reads in a detailed way which I like.

his points and questions are justified

townlean on APF

@RC why you were (are?) scumreading APF early game (even now?) so hard ?

[Frozen Angel]

I was calling you he. Sorry FA.

np I'm not English so I fuck them up sometimes as well

[Frozen Angel]

Idk anything about logical fallacies and I already explained I'm not being hypocritical. I do know that scum is more likely to discredit people by falsely accusing them of logical fallacies.

What I've done is stay true to myself and call out things as I see them. If you want to twist my actions into something they actually aren't that's on you.

Calling all the accusations on you falcy is not a very good way to respond them

[Frozen Angel]

I will answer that after I posted your case which I will do that last thing tonight

[Frozen Angel]

Case by Case Analyses

Nosferato

I mean it basically just means we get a longer D1 tbh

Can we stop playing this game of who knows RC the best?

all of her content pregame

cause there's only been one post since the game started.

VOTE: mhsmith

RVS at the day start. Nothing in pregame was there to made you make a better and justified vote instead of just pushing back to RVS ?

Didn't know that was an ordered readlist, but w/e, it was to you, just not on the topic of me. I was talking about jake, who did the exact thing he said he was going to do once the game started.

There's a bit of a disconnect here. I wasn't asking for a wall, I was asking for content and commenting on the disturbingly high number of posts without content. Content doens't need to be a wall, it can be short, it can be as simple as a relevant question.

I was exaggerating when I said wall. I just found it odd that you would vote someone because they didn't leap out of the gate with scumhunting, when they clearly previously stated that they didn't find the pre-game to have proper reactions. It just seems like gunning for easy pickings to me.

This is basically your first content in game about something happened way earlier in pregame. if it was important why you didn't talk about it back then?

believe me, it's better kain doesn't post.

1 sentence length posts without making anything out of them.

the tone of your post is completely static and there's no reason it could be interpreted as sarcasm. This is why we have and Kappa and :^) and other such emoticons to denote sarcasm properly.

Then your interaction starts with mhs about his sarcasm which contains the most content included part of your ISO

To make this as clear as possible, when I went to put down a vote once the game started, I remembered that you pinged me before with the sarcasm, but I know now that you genuinely believe you were being obviously sarcastic.

I can see how this doesn't make sense to you.

trying to justify your vote and get away with it after there is nothing else to discus. Its clearly obvious : its a simple yes or no . Do you believe he was sarcastic or not? and another simple yes or no : is that alignement indicative?

if yes on both why you didn't mention that before?

Pressure started on Nos and suddenly

VOTE: Nosferato

you're done with jake so that includes the vote as well or you've got something new on me?

pedit: well that answers that

Where's your Shadow read Nos?

I just read through his ISO. I like him, he's town.

you were playing the game . you were posting stuff in here when he was posting. You basically ignored all the posts of him/against him and now out of nowhere you need to read his ISO and you like it ...

Well yeah, that's kinda what I just said. I basically ignored his posts, and now that I've read them, I think he's town. I ignore things I'm not interested in.

pedit2: I wasn't interested in him

Why you wasn't intrested in aplayer of the game? thats not a town mindset obviously.

I am making an effort, I just haven't hit my scumhunting groove

I hit it midway through D1 in NY192

I hit it at the start of D1 in LI1757

hit it like D5 in NY188

it'll come

and you'll know

call it so it reach here as fast as possible

scum reading Nos

[Frozen Angel]

I will answer that after I posted your case which I will do that last thing tonight

I don't need you to respond
I don't even want you to respond
Cause I don't care about your response.

Your response will only be for the sake of making yourself look better to others. Remember how I said you haven't seen my tunnel mode yet?

We'll be prepared cause tunnel mode is in full effect. My vote is staying on you until you die or I do. Everything you say can and will be used against you in the the court of Jake.

The court of jake is a shity court. Its unjustified and weak and it showed its inability to make a right judgement. As I'm declaring , From the Ghastly Eyrie I can see to the ends of the world, and from this vantage point I declare with utter certainty that I will flip town

[Frozen Angel]

Doubtful you flip town.

I just read your roshar posts and you ended it with null (leaning scummy) but he was a scum read pregame. I see nothing in your posts that really explain why you lowered your read on him. I also don't see anything that explains why you chose to ignore him once the game started. Is he your scum buddy?

The burden of proof is on the accuser.

Then its our argument about play styles and personality and omgus credibility as scum tells which make me rethink about your age comment mentioned before uprised my read on you from a scum read to a null one.

[Frozen Angel]

Burden of Proof

ftfy

[Frozen Angel]

Spoiler:

...maverick is town.

Whilst I shan't dispute this, I'd like to know how you came to this conclusion based on three pretty contentless posts from myself. I'm thinking it's a reaction test? If so, to what end?

I'm not a massive fan of APF's #29 It's very forced and reactionary which simply doesn't need to be the case on page two in pre-game. Hilariously defensive with a voteless OMGUS essentially. Roshar summed it up pretty well in the next post with this, which was my thoughts pretty much upon reading.

But you're hard-defending.

What I don't like about Roshar's thoughts on Policy lynches isn't that she disagrees with them, (I disagree with the concept of Policy lynches anyway) but that she wouldn't policy lynch straight away, she'd save them for D2 'in case we have no leads'. It looks like trying to to the nice thing, but comes across as 'we're saving that lynch for later' which simply appears scum-motivated to me. This brings us to her #32 in which she kind of dispels the above, but doesn't really close the case. Lynching an 'unreadable' player D2 in any case is quite likely either scum-motivated or bad play. How you can suggest that you won't have stronger reads than 'unreadable' D2 doesn't sit well with me, and the whole debacle seemed to ignore the posts so far from APF and RC especially. I'm not getting a massively strong read from this in pre-game since it seems more of a theoretical debate than a serious push on a PL D2 due to the lack of game-specific context throughout, but not only does it appear to me as scum-motivated, I also totally wanted to wade in and give my 2 pennies on Policy Lynches. (They're bad.)

If it makes you feel better I really really do want you to be on my side this game.

The terminology in this alarms me. 'My side', not 'Town' or something like that. Don't like this at all.

I also dislike This post 'If he's town and this is actually his scumhunting then I think town is better off without him anyway.' Going on about how being certain in reads is a scumtell, but for several pages as far as I can follow APF appears to be RC's strongest scumread based on a style of play more than anything. I don't like it either and players trying to call the game early especially in such a manner as APF did irritates me, but it just seems very forced and aloof to me.

So far, I don't like Roshar's play - it looks the most scum-motivated of the bunch and so I'll

Pre-Game FOS: Roshar

. This is followed by RC, APF and then everyone else is pretty null to me right now.

First Wall of the game, get in. *Punches air in delight*

^nice post

pretty much summed up my pov.

I'm still not sure if RC push on me makes him scum though. I know him better than any of you if thats a thing to consider . and his stubbornness and exaggerating his reads is a normal thing for him. I will w8 to see some signs that show me he is town or scum. he done neither.

This looks like you want maverick on your side and also don't really want to tangle with RC because you know he's town and he's a worse person to tangle with than I am when he's on his game.

You have made many mentions that RC isn't playing like RC yet you avoid directly pressuring him. I think RC scares you.

I already mentioned whatever Mav told in that post way behind him so if anyone was trying to make someone trust the other it was mav attemp to make me trust him.

And hwo said ever I'm scumreading RC ? plus you may w8 for his turn ? I will share my reads concerns clarify it tonight.

and nah I declare that I have no fear of RC! RC is the one who is afraid of the almighty Ice queen *sarcasm*

[Frozen Angel]

Can't prove anything without a flip. So let's lynch you and find out shall we?

You flip all the town to make yourself feel bad? What a moon logician are you

[Frozen Angel]

There's no way anyone can prove anything in a game of Mafia. Cmon you've played this game long enough to know that. Only way to get 100% proof is cop guilty and even then that's not confirmable proof.

You accused me you need to push it. Calling me why I'm not defending against your no push is pushing a Burden of proof. calling me scum and tell me to prove I'm town is a logical fallacy mate

I'm town and your the one responsible to find that out if your town. I can only guide you through

[Frozen Angel]

I can provide evidence to give people reason to doubt you. I've already proved that you are the true hypocrite. I'm also showing other questionable actions coming from you like your refusal to directly pressure RC.

You didn't prove anything. You just made some shitty post why I'm developing my reads and the reason is becuase I like it. why your not developing your reads is a question that its answer worth discussing though

[Frozen Angel]

Are you kidding me?

This is not at all what I said there. i said the part mav post had about roshar wasn't in the shadowz post = shadowz didn't evaluate anything about Roshar when he made that comment.

WTF are you after?