Mini 1782 Game Over

[Huntress]

Hi there!

[Huntress]

Unvote

Still catching up. I should be finished tomorrow.

[Huntress]

All caught up now but I still need to recheck some stuff.

My initial scum reads are Roshar, Froot Loop and Clumsy but there are one or two others who haven't made an impression on me and I need to look back to see why that is.

[Huntress]

Sorry I wasn't able to focus on this yesterday, but I should be able to get to it this afternoon or this evening.

[Huntress]

Caught up again so should be more

in

the game from now on.

Top scum read is Roshar. This is partly gut and partly because she seemed to be reading people as scum mainly for their playstyle.

@ Roshar:

What was it about 937 that made you switch your vote to Max? Was it just his naming a few town reads, or was it something more than that?

Second scum read was Froot Loop but I can't remember why at the moment and it isn't clear from her ISO, which means it may have been some interaction or other which looked off when read in context. I'll get back to that later.

Still not sure about Clumsy, but I'm liking the wagon on him even less than I liked his earlier posts, and his later posts seem to be better.

Not liking Lowell's eagerness to end the Day but I'm not sure that he'd be so blatant about it as scum.

[Huntress]

Post 1033 I explained further.

All 1033 says is that you didn't like the way he gave his town reads because he used a sweeping statement rather than an individual analysis of each of them. Have I got that right? And if so why is that scummy?

Can you provide actual quotes and examples of where you think I'm voting people on playstyle? A gut read after 40 pages can't really be held accountable.

Some of it was in 891. There was more but I couldn't find the exact quote I was looking for on a quick skim through, and I don't have time for a deeper look today. I'll see if I can find it tomorrow. As for my gut read, what does the number of pages have to do with it?

Any town reads Huntress?

No strong town reads yet.

Huntress, we need more content from your slot. I was expecting you'd be more active after the last post when you said you'd caught up.

When I said that, I forget we were coming into the weekend. Bad timing on my part.


Meant to do this in my last post:

Vote: Roshar

[Huntress]

In terms of 1033. Town would not analyze discussion like that. I don't read a discussion between a bunch of players and think, "this is a towny discussion". The lack of individual assortment reflects a scum state of mind. As scum you'd know everyone is town and looking for individual alignments isn't what you're doing.

That read more like a summary of his thoughts rather than an analysis to me. He gave the analysis later.

What parts of 891 and why?

Your comments on Jake's 521, 574 and 615 for a start. Compare them with his posts. It looks very much like you just don't like the way he plays and are calling him scummy for it.

B/c there's virtually nothing on the Kain Tepes slot, and your posts (whenever they come) have very little in them. A gut read at this point is giving us nothing. We can't analyze your slot nor hold you accountable to things you've said.

Gut reads are sometimes just a response to the tone of a player's posts. In your case I feel like you are looking to find fault rather than looking to find scum. I need to do a meta read on you to see how you usually play.

Also, no strong town reads? Not even one player? How do you view mhs or frozen? I find it really really hard to believe you don't have one decent town read.

I didn't say I had no town reads, just not strong ones. I'm reserving judgement on Frozen (and her successors) as she can look pretty townish as scum, but I haven't seen anything there to bother me yet, and mhs is one I'm still mulling over.

Huntress took a week to briefly explain one read and pop up with zero town-reads.

So taking the time to read the thread and giving my scums reads (plural, not just one) is scummy is it? Please explain that one for me. And why are you so concerned about my town reads?

[Huntress]

In my case it's because I'm not very keen on either wagon. Clumsy was an initial scum read but his later posts have been better. It's the other way round with Jake/Max. Jake's early posting looked null to town but Max not so much. Out of those two I'd prefer to vote Max.

[Huntress]

In terms of Jake's 574, it's not that I disapprove of his play style, it's that I don't believe for a second that he's trying to lure Mhs/Frozen's scum buddies out. That is a ludicrous claim and looks like he's just trying to explain his actions which were questioned by Maverick in 572.

But that's not what he's saying there. He said he was trying to figure other people out like was doing with Frozen. There's nothing about looking for scumbuddies there.

In terms of 615, again this is something Frozen and I disagreed on if you have read our earlier posts. Being reactionary is one thing but scum reading everyone who finds you scummy is really off and earns scum points from me.

Again, that's not what he was saying in that post. He was pointing out what was wrong with Maverick's case on him.

521. His three points where he attempts to defend himself are points that can be easily refuted. 1) I've provided two people, i.e, I'm helpful town. 2)I've done more than most players,when no, he's really replying to all the fingers pointed at him for his refusal to start in pregame 3) Why are you trying to figure me out, go figure RC out.

His self-defense came out really weak and worked against him imo. I was highlighting that.

The other half of that post is an attempt to slap a scum read at Mhs. The reasons he pointed out I feel worked more for Mhs than against him, and begs the question, 'Does he truly think Mhs is scummy or is he simply trying to push Mhs away from pressuring him?'

What I see in that post is Jake trying to sort out mhs's motive for attacking him.

[Huntress]

because i suspect you are struggling to come up with reads and reasons for them.

Nope; not struggling. I have already given my scum reads but just not got round to filling in the gaps re: Froot Loop yet.

[Huntress]

Figure her people out? What does this mean to you? Because to me, he's saying he's trying to figure out 'her people", aka scum buddies.

I read that as "figure other people out." It looks like a typo or autocorrect; that and the next sentence don't make sense otherwise.

You can point out what's wrong with someone's case without scum reading them. He scum read mhs, frozen and now Maverick for calling him out.

There's nothing wrong with suspecting someone's motives if their attack on you looks off. He explained his reads and why he moved his vote from mhs to Frozen.

@Huntress, any reason why you're taking your time voting Max? With less than a day left?

There was more than a day left when I made my last post so I was quite ok with leaving the vote till today. Call it a reluctance to vote the same way as my main scum read.

[Huntress]

Ugh...

I was feeling better about Maxous when he was the first to unvote me and give time for everything + time for me to talk, but this does make it look a bit worse... but if it's going to be between me and him, even if I were 99% sure he was town... I'm 100% sure I am. So if that's the only other wagon, then yeah.

I'd also highlight this one specifically. "I'm voting max to survive but I definitely do NOT have any kind of opinion about his alignment". If that's a town process, I really struggle to see it.

That's a bit of a misrep there. Clumsy has given his opinion on that slot a few times.


Anyone up for a flashwagon on Roshar? Or even Lowell? I'd really prefer to lynch them to either of the current wagons.

[Huntress]

So how about Roshar or Lowell as alternatives?



I don't think there's a realistic chance of lynching Roshar now, judging by recent posts and looking back at the ISO's of those who haven't posted yet today, so I'm moving my vote now but I'll be around for the rest of the day and I'm still very much open to a lynch on Lowell if enough people are willing.

Vote: Maxous

[Huntress]

Going to reread a couple of people but I probably won't be able to do that until later tomorrow.

[Huntress]

Maybe I wasn't clear before but I think it's scummy because she has struggled to come up with content to give. I don't think it's case where she's just lurking, I think suspect she can't come up with much which would indicate a scum struggling with the game.

I've replied to this already, but you apparently just ignored it. Is it just that you don't like my reads so you're trying to pretend they don't exist?

Vote: Roshar

I'm sticking with this for the moment because Roshar is still the stronger read.

[Huntress]

Huntress your ISO had something about Froot gaps?

Yep, it did. I need to update that.

@Huntress, care to share your re-reads of other people?

I haven't been able to do them yet. I had a difficult weekend and today I've had to give priority to another game.

i don't mean to be a broken record but people keep asking me to clarify

Because you still haven't backed up your claim that I'm "struggling" yet you keep repeating it as if it's a fact, which it isn't.

[Huntress]

Is that you saying you're working on it now or you will in the future?

In the future.

[Huntress]

you have literally only elaborated on one read.

I'm only pushing one read at the moment. The others are sitting on the back burner because I want to reread some stuff in context first and then update my reads. I should be able to do some of that tomorrow.

[Huntress]

Huntress votes Roshar for a quite a while.
Lowell and Roshar have a big back and forth and then Huntress...writes #1371 and pops out again.
like, didn't even address or comment on it at all.

I think you must have missed this :

I'm only pushing one read at the moment.

The others are sitting on the back burner because I want to reread some stuff in context first and then update my reads.

I should be able to do some of that tomorrow.

How is that "not even addressing or commenting on it at all"? I just wanted to get it in context first.

Tomorrow is here and I'm reading through this now.

[Huntress]

In the page 54 tussel between Lowell and Roshar I actually think Roshar's version of events sounds more likely. This moves Roshar down my list a bit.

A plain farmer's vote switch from Lowell to FA_Q2 in 1403, coming as it did after FA_Q2 voted Lowell in 1395 made me wonder if apf had been distancing from Lowell earlier.

I have next to no problem with Froot Loop's posting in Day two so I'm dropping her from my scum list for now. I'm still curious about what gave me that initial scum read but to find it would mean rereading Day one so that is going to have to wait.

I'm going to look into mhsmith a bit more as something seems off there, although it may just be playstyle.

My lynch pool is currently Max, Lowell, Rosher, apf, in that order.

Vote: Maxous

[Huntress]

We don't know how many people are in the neighbourhood so the conversation could be ongoing. Nos could also have said that they were suspicious of another player or interpreted something differently which they mentioned in the PT. I think most comments by confirmed town players have value because you know what their motivation is for posting. Because of the posts I highlighted, it'd be more difficult to come forward with like, an interesting comment, or something Nos might have been thinking. Maybe the value isn't as concrete as a PR result, but it could still be interesting.

But how would you know that any comments reported were actually by Nos, unless the player reporting them was lynched/killed and flipped town of course?

[Huntress]

The best display of someone who kept actively avoiding both the max and clumsy lynch on D1 is Huntress, despite finding

both

slots scummy/not town lean at one point or another.

Huntress on Clumsy:

This is her finding Clumsy scummy after catching up:

My initial scum reads are Roshar, Froot Loop and Clumsy but there are one or two others who haven't made an impression on me and I need to look back to see why that is.

This is her realizing she was late on the Clumsy wagon:

Still not sure about Clumsy, but I'm liking the wagon on him even less than I liked his earlier posts, and his later posts seem to be better.

That first quote relates to my

initial

reads, made after a first read through the thread. The second quote comes from the post where I followed up on

all

my reads, not just that one, after checking back on stuff, reading some ISOs, and looking at the wagons. Your jumping between the wagons was one of the things that put me off them. In fact, at the time of my post you were on neither of them.

Huntress on Max:

This is her not only saying she'd vote for him if the time came, but saying she didn't like his posting D1.

In my case it's because I'm not very keen on either wagon. Clumsy was an initial scum read but his later posts have been better. It's the other way round with Jake/Max. Jake's early posting looked null to town

but Max not so much. Out of those two I'd prefer to vote Max.

Yes. And I did. So?

This is Huntress' response when I asked her why she wasn't voting for Max when there was one day left in D1.

@Huntress, any reason why you're taking your time voting Max? With less than a day left?

There was more than a day left when I made my last post so I was quite ok with leaving the vote till today.

Call it a reluctance to vote the same way as my main scum read.

Refusing to vote because of someone on the wagon? Really? The reluctance is you not wanting to get your hands dirty.

Nope. The reluctance was me not wanting to join either of the two wagons which you were pushing when I had a strong read on you and only weak reads on them. I did not refuse to vote so don't try to pretend that I did.

Anyone up for a flashwagon on Roshar? Or even Lowell? I'd really prefer to lynch them to either of the current wagons.

This was end of D1,

there was less than a day left

. The fact that you suggested a flash lynch at that point is ludicrous. This is not something town would have considered had town been faced with two slots they knew nothing about (and had found one of them scummy at one point, and the other not a town lean). This is scum knowing both alignments and wanting to demonstrate strong adversity to lynching town.

It's not uncommon for wagons to switch late in the Day, especially when the existing wagons feel like a compromise, which was the impression I had here. I already had a slight town read on Clumsy and your attacks on Jake had made me less eager to vote that slot. There were a few people willing to consider Lowell, if not you, so I thought it worth a chance. Unfortunately, hardly anyone was willing to move.

So you literally disappeared most of D1 and never pushed any other lynch, and you come out in the final hours of the day and demonstrate strong reluctance over the vote, strong enough that you're willing to attempt to divert the lynch with less than a day left. It's so disingenuous.

I was only in the game for half of Day one and a lot of that time was spent catching up. It was not the final hours of the day, but a few days earlier that I expressed doubts over the Clumsy wagon, and my exchanges with you should have made you aware that I wasn't too keen on the other one either. I find it disingenuous that you are ignoring this.

Your D2 performance makes little sense too. Without providing so much as a reason, Max becomes your number 1 scum read. For someone who showed constant reluctance on voting him D1, there is absolutely no progression that led to that stance.

Didn't you read the dialogue between Max and I? That and his selective scumhunting, along with my read on the page 54 tussel between Lowell and yourself, tipped the balance.

[Huntress]

That first quote relates to my initial reads, made after a first read through the thread. The second quote comes from the post where I followed up on all my reads, not just that one, after checking back on stuff, reading some ISOs, and looking at the wagons. Your jumping between the wagons was one of the things that put me off them. In fact, at the time of my post you were on neither of them.

You're saying you found Clumsy suspicious on your first read. Then after you started looking at individual players and wagons, you started backing away. That is exactly what I just described. After looking at the wagon, and realizing you were late, you backed away.

No, that is not what you described. What you did, and repeated here, was to claim that I changed my reads after "realizing you were late". That is simply not true.

Yes. And I did. So?

Again, you say you don't like Max's posting but based on the wagon (me), you back off again.

You weren't the only one on the wagon, and I don't recall backing off of Max at all.

Nope. The reluctance was me not wanting to join either of the two wagons which you were pushing when I had a strong read on you and only weak reads on them. I did not refuse to vote so don't try to pretend that I did.

You refused to vote until the last day. And how convenient to try to avoid both lynches using wagons as the reason. "I don't like Clumsy's wagon" and "My main scum read is on Max' wagon, my hands are tied".

Please quote where I refused to vote as this is the second time you've claimed that. Yes I would have preferred a different lynch but had already said where I would be moving my vote, and did so before the end of the Day. And I never said anything like your last phrase.

But you barely pushed any reads. Your scum read on me for instance. It was me who pushed you to make a case. Otherwise you would have been more than happy to keep it at, "gut read" and "voting players based on playstyle".

I believe it was me that initiated that conversation, when I asked you a question in 1121. You then asked for examples so I gave some. It certainly didn't require any pushing on your part.

It's so obvious to me that your motive wasn't in trying to divert the lynch.

That's exactly what my motive was. To get a lynch that had a higher chance of hitting scum.

Didn't you read the dialogue between Max and I? That and his selective scumhunting, along with my read on the page 54 tussel between Lowell and yourself, tipped the balance.

Yes, I read the dialogue between Max and yourself. Several times, actually. And I still don't see how he became your number 1 scum read. Why are you providing it as a reason that because I moved down your list, it made Max more scummy? That is not the way town reaches conclusions about players. That is scum trying to maintain a list.

Believe it or not, town makes lists too. No, it didn't make Max more scummy; he did that himself. I've already explained why I lowered you on my list although in view of your posts toDay, and the misinformation they contain, I'm thinking I may have been wrong about that.

Vote: Roshar

[Huntress]

I'm not going to reply point-by-point to Roshar's 1578 as it only seems to be rehashing stuff that I've already explained or replied to, and twisting the facts to cast shade on me. If anyone else wants me to comment on any particular part of it I'll be happy to oblige, but I've spent enough time answering her posts and it's distracting me from the rest of the game.

I've explained why my activity was low during Day two. It wasn't related to this game. I do not consider the time it took me to catch up as "lurking".

Also, in this case, I think both the things you mention (pushing scumreads, posting frequency) can be explained by apathy.

Nope, not apathy. If I was apathetic about it I wouldn't be playing. But I do have a problem that it takes me longer than most people to read, think and type.

@Huntress: What are your feelings on FAQ, Lowell, and mhsmith?

FAQ:

I like his play so far. He's made some good points.

Lowell:

I've been going back and forth on him as he's done some stuff I think is scummy but I don't see him as partners with Roshar due to their interaction on Day two, which Roshar came out of looking better than him. So I'm a bit conflicted there.

mhsmith:

I'm tentatively saying town for him. I'm uncomfortable with some of his play, such as suggesting the remaining neighbour(s) should come out, but I haven't seen anything really scummy.

[Huntress]

@Huntress, if you think I look worse than Rosh, why are you voting her? I mean, I

don't

look worse than rosh, who is obvscum, but if you believe so...

That was Day two, and based on one interaction. ToDay she's looking worse, but I'm not sure whether my judgement is being affected by the way she's tunnelling me. Hence the confliction.

Also I'm happy to jump to titus. I think rosh is probably killable any time but titus strikes me as the type of player who will only get stronger as the game moves on.

I'm not sure about Titus. I don't like the way she sheeped Roshar onto me, but she does seem to be trying to work out the game in her own way. And I can't help feeling your last sentence looks like it belongs in a mafia PT.

[Huntress]

I remember reading that the first time and thinking, "how did she reach that conclusion, I wouldn't have read that and thought in a million years that APF was distancing himself from Lowell".

It wasn't from reading the posts but rather from looking at the votes. It was an isolated point, but when I looked at the votes on my spreadsheet it stuck out to me. More a note for later, than anything else.

[Huntress]

Do you think her stating her willingness to stay all day next to her computer to divert the lynch shows apathy? I'd say she's quite invested.

There's no point in me going over all the stuff in 1590 but this one amused me. By what stretch of the imagination do you translate "I'll be around" into the above?

And this still operated under the assumption that Lowell was scum.

More a case of "If Lowell is scum then apf could be his partner". As I said, It's something to look at later, if Lowell or apf flip scum.

@ Titus:

What was the point of posting those particular vote counts to the thread?

[Huntress]

Nope. It meant I would be returning to my computer from time to time to check the thread.

[Huntress]

I didn't have time to deal with this today, but tomorrow I'm going to do a summary of my case on Roshar.

I do think it's strange that she didn't come back and have a conversation about Lowell. I can't think of a better response to a flashlynch suggestion that what she got, really, which makes that surprising.

There weren't enough people responding to it to make a lynch viable. Only three I think, and we needed seven to bring it off.

[Huntress]

My initial scum read on Roshar was partly gut and partly because she seemed to be reading people as scum mainly for their playstyle. See my comments on her read of Jake's and Max's posts. (1171, 1198, and 1209). See also Nos's replies to her (1105, 1106).

On Day two I thought Roshar's response to Lowell's 1331 seemed reasonable so I moved Lowell ahead of Roshar on my scumlist. I don't recall anything else from Day two that affected my read on her.

Day three she came in with a barrage of half truths and misreps. I replied to her first two posts (see 1554 and 1577), but when she came right back with a third long post (1578) repeating much the same stuff, with the same incorrect claims about my motives and the same false assumptions as to cause and effect, I decided enough was enough (see my 1586). I may be wrong but I had the feeling that 1578 and the two posts immediately following it were aimed at antagonising me in view of what I've previously said about my posting and availabilty. Does anyone think 1579 and 1580 were genuine?

I also didn't like Roshar's overreaction to Froot Loop's point about the neighbour discussion and the assumption that it was aimed purely at her.


Re: Lowell

Day one it was mainly the fact that he was so brazen about wanting to rush the end of the Day, and his voting patterns, which Nos brought up in 1094. Day two it was the way he said to blame him for the mislynch, and for that post about Roshar. Another thing I noticed but didn't mention was the feeling that he might have been trying to buddy up to me. However, I don't think he's likely to be scum with Roshar.

@ Roshar:

Why did you think it would bother me to put someone to L-1?

[Huntress]

@Huntress, They are the VCs I was using to make my determination.

Yes, but I asked you why those particular ones? The timing seems odd.

FAQ:

I like his play so far. He's made some good points.

What are these points you guys like?

1140 1395 1396 1428 and 1565 are the main ones I think. I've seen nothing from him that gives me a scum vibe.

[Huntress]

I believe Roshar's claim because it doesn't make sense for her to come out like that as scum, and if she was faking it to get the lynch on me she would have claimed cop or something similar. It also explains why I got no result last night.

Claim: Watcher

Night 1, I watched Johnny and was told he wasn't visited by anyone.
Night 2, I watched FAQ and was told I had no result.

[Huntress]

Because your slot seemed to be town read by most people, therefore a possible nk.

[Huntress]

Frozen Angel was the one that gave the slot its town read for me, but I was also going on what others were saying about the slot.

[Huntress]

Good game town!