Mini 1786: Inspirational Mafia (Game Over)

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: Lowell
I've told you before, these games are only big enough for one JOAT!

[drmyshottyizsik]

Hi guys. I do want to do a bit of an intro, as I am still also in my second newbie game. That makes this my third game of Mafia EVER. Any advice is much appreciated, though it will be analyzed for game-play misdirection as well. I hope that, being a newbie I do not ruin the game, and we all have fun. I would RVS Creature in return, but he's already got a wagon. SO..............thinking................. the guy who apparently has a sick shotgun. Not very useful with a sick weapon. VOTE: drmyshottyizsik

It's a double entendre! Also welcome to mafia scum. It is a wonderful place that has driven me crazy by keeping me sane for years now.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Unvote, Vote drmy

The great thing is neither time did you use vote tags so you still haven't voted.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Unvote, Vote drmy

The great thing is neither time did you use vote tags so you still haven't voted.

The vote scanner needs a colon with the bold text

[drmyshottyizsik]

I’ll be V/LA from approximately 5pm today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

Can we please lynch this before he has a chance to fakeclaim?

Hey Kat where is your cupcake buddy

[drmyshottyizsik]

Stupid mod giving me my role pm 30 minutes after I go to sleep

Oh lord there are three JOATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[drmyshottyizsik]

I’ll be V/LA from approximately 5pm today until Monday morning for my usual weekend family duties.

Can we please lynch this before he has a chance to fakeclaim?

Hey Kat where is your cupcake buddy

and who may that be?

I might as well ask, where is Gandalf?

Old times.

Gandalf is off smoking weed and trying to get a masters degree by 20(Believe it or not Gandalf is insanely smart).

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

Finally someone makes sense. Is this a PL?

[drmyshottyizsik]

No?

Then why the snarky vote?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Yes. This is a serious wagon on scum.

Should I assume sarcasm please? Or am I missing something?

I am not one for jokes nor sarcasm. MOI is assuredly scum.

At post 23? By what logic?

You seem to be unusually resistant to the idea of voting MOI. Why?

Do you think his reaction is scummy? Given his newness and given that it would legitimately be seen as pretty surprising to have a player declare that his vote is a serious attack on scum this early, isn't this pretty much textbook for how you would expect a newer town player to react?

Come on tsq you're bettert than this. This is a clasic misdirected comment. That is how any new player would react regardless of alignment, and you know this. So why are you deffending him and calling him town from a null tell?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Also UT is solidly town. I trust in my ability to read him.

Funny how TSQ is trying to start casting doubts on another player on my wagon now that it's at L-1.

This is aweful. With the fake day cop claim plus my scum read on you and UT, this leads me to believe you were seriously trying to bus ut for confirmed town status. Intend to hammer, claim for real.

[drmyshottyizsik]

wtf are you even talking about bussing UT anyways.

I was gonna say things have changed with your #113, but #114 is the same VI shotty of 2010. Pity.

Wow so ad hom is your plan. This is even worse. A claim may have been a bit rash to ask for, it is still early but you are suspect #1 with tsq at #2 and ut in third.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I am very tempted to hammer myself if Katsuki does not produce some notable reason not to. Every thing so far at the very least screams NOT TOWN.

What have I done specifically in your mind that screams "NOT TOWN"?

Umm, have you been reading? Do I have to repeat everything that everyone has said?

Implosion the other thing is I truly think that the fake claim was an attempt to earn instant town cred by bussing. I don't have as strong of a read on UT as kat but if kat flips scum the interaction between kat and UT is scummy all the way around. He fake guilties him and then back peddles and says that he can read UT and he knows he is town. This is scum in a bun in the sun, ready for baking

P edit
@Tsq
No, you and kat are not scum together. But one of you is. I think it is kat but you are at #2

[drmyshottyizsik]

TSQ at this point you are beating a dead horse, but what interests me is why. Why are you trying so hard to make a newbie look bad.

P edit
Also I want to know if anyone doesn't want me to hammer and why.

[drmyshottyizsik]

4. SnarkySnowman
7. MagnaofIllusion
8. Kmd4390
12. Lowell
13. Untrod Tripod

Here is a list of people I would like to hear a hell of a lot more from before the day ends.

I can second that.
Also tsq - lets be honest you don't like new people. You told me that 6 years ago when you where explaining why you hated me.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok so in the interim, tsq who else do you think is scum?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Look kat you have 12 hours convince me not to drop it. ====[]

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: Katsuki

We're gunna keep him at l-2. I don't want the day to end without people chiming in but I also do not want to give smoke and cover for potential katsuki scumbuddies to quietly let the wagon dissipate.

Stop speaking for the town. You have your vote alone, stop coaching and trying to manipulate town.
VOTE: kat
I think l-1 is a fine place for kat to be. He is obviously scum.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Having an opinion that its too early to end the day and taking actions to ensure it doesnt happen is neither coaching nor manipulation.

I'm fine with him at l-1.

I just dont want you hammering when there's no fucking reason to.

But your subtle (not really subtle, but you probably think it is) well poisoning is noted.

You think I'm attacking you personally? I'm pretty sure I've been fairly germane so far.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Where in that post do I even come close to saying you're attacking me personally?

Who are you saying I'm well poisoning?
Because if you then right there. Well poisoning is just adverse ad hom.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Who am I coaching? What? People keep saying that I'm coaching but in order to be coaching I need to be coaching someone.

No one has posited who that fucking is yet.

Shotty you are poisoning my well. Do you know what well poisoning is? What? How is me saying you're poisoning my well me saying youre attacking me personally.

You make my head hurt.

Typically poisoning the well means using personal or adverse information to distract and passively harm someone.

[drmyshottyizsik]

My main read on ut is that he has lurked most of today, and none of his posts where scum hunting, just defences and filler, but with 6 posts it's hard to tell. I do find it strange that he disappeared after a little suspicion was cast.

[drmyshottyizsik]

1) Cuz I felt like it. It's something I've done a lot in IRL games and I've liked the kind of discussion it generates.
2) Because I got a list of players and went down it and deleted people that I remembered contributing. It's possible that I missed creature,

Going back through ISO I think my inclination to leave him off is correct. He has 17 posts today, and while theres not much in depth content, there is certainly some, which is way more than the others on my list.

Shotty. Well poisoning is presenting information in such a way (usually preemptively) that it discredits a person. Usually the information is either false or from a skewed perspective. It has nothing to do with personal attacks. Specifically, I am saying that you characterizing my desire to not have the day end early and taking steps to avoid that "manipulation and coaching" is unwarranted and attempts to discount my opinions and actions rather than actually arguing against them.

It's textbook well poisoning.

The coaching I already addressed. This is the third time you've said I'm coaching unless I'm mistaken. In mafia the term coaching typically means telling a lesser experienced scumbuddy what to do subtly. Hence it is incoherent to accuse someone of "coaching" without saying who it is that they're coaching. you haven't told me who I'm coaching. Coaching without a scum buddy? We just call that "having opinions on the game."

I'm not trying to discredit you per say, and perhaps it is personal for me, but I've experienced the biased wrath of TSQ before, so yes I am quick to look skeptically at you.

[drmyshottyizsik]

My main read on ut is that he has lurked most of today, and none of his posts where scum hunting, just defences and filler, but with 6 posts it's hard to tell. I do find it strange that he disappeared after a little suspicion was cast.

He was V/LA most of today. He has said this. I know for a fact he was in Columbus this weekend for an audition. Keep in mind this day has been absurdly short and we got out of RVS very quickly.

I think this point is disingenuous.

Actually, I think most of the things you've posted here read a lot like "looking for things you could conceivably attack without checking into them thoroughly." and not "trying to find scum."

hmmmmm. I'll have to look into that tomorrow in more depth.

This is why I said "but it's hard to tell with 6 posts". Also, about your

"looking for things you could conceivably attack without checking into them thoroughly."

All I have to say is

Keep in mind this day has been absurdly short and we got out of RVS very quickly.

P-Edit:

How about instead of giving us a boo hoo sob story about how I've been angry at you before you answer the fucking points that i made. How is it manipulation to have opinions on when the day should end and then take DIRECT PERSONAL ACTION to make sure that that this happens the way you want it to. Who am I coaching? I don't give a fuck if I was mean to you 8 years ago. That isn't an answer to either of the direct callouts I made at your hamfisted attack.

The manipulative part is when you start using the word "we won't" or "we anything" you are speaking as is your have more power than one vote, and this is manipulative. It is one thing to have an opinion and a complete other to dictate yours onto the town.


Also

In other news, I think UT might be scum. I'm not willing to explain right now because I want to continue reading something.

Care to explain any further yet?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Also to be fair, UT has posted somewhere on this site, each and everyday of the Day.

[drmyshottyizsik]

2) If I had to pick a list of top suspects going into day 2 it would look like this(in no particular order:
DrShotty: His posts, as I've said look like someone who is not trying to scum but just looking for anything he can post about.

Well poisoning?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Are you literally the dumbest person alive? Well poisoning is saying something that is a mischaracterization in order to discredit someones opinions. Not saying "I think you are doing this thing and I think you are scum from it."

Oh my fucking god. What the fuck is wrong with you?

Let's be fair now TSQ. First off, no need for ad hom. I'm not dumb. Second, you are discrediting my opinion and posts by saying they aren't scumhunty enough. I'd call that a mischaracterization of my posts, and also since you are talking about me as a d-2 lynch possibility I would say that meets your prior requirement for being preemptive. All I'm saying is let's not be hypocrites.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Bruhhhhh

Given this … is your opinion on the unvote different now?

yeah, I grok what you're saying now. I still don't find shea's unvote scummy.

What about the instant re vote when tides changed?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Tides changed? What the actual fuck. You mean when I said I wanted him to be at l-2 so he wasn't quick hammered by you and then that wasn't an issue anymore so I revoted? That is one fucking GIANT mischaracterization.

Then you changed your tune and said well L1 is ok. If you really thought that wouldn't you have unvoted again once I voted?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Yes, l1 is ok because the reason I didn't want it to be l1 was because you expressed that you were going to hammer. Then you were already on the wagon so that wasn't going to happen.

Are you actually this dumb or what?

No, see again you are making this personal. I was one of 2 or 3 people who said they would hammer. Me voting still leaves one or two people who said they would hammer, and kat was still L1. And look what happened one of the others who said they would hammer did. Why didn't you unvote when the newbie said they would hammer in their next post?

[drmyshottyizsik]

You're bad at reading.

No you are just out of fake reasoning so you are getting personal again. You really like ad hom

[drmyshottyizsik]

no, I literally already answered that exact question. Literally the exact question.

No you didn't. You said that because I was already on the wagon you weren't scared anymore, but you ignoring the fact that I wasn't the only person willing to hammer. Why is me hammering any different than newbie hammering? Are you protecting them or are you just this bad at faking a line of reasoning?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Quote yourself

[drmyshottyizsik]

In fact Lowell might be scummy for 194 if Katsuki is scum; it's possible that he's trying to salvage a bad d1 and leverage the existing sentiment of kats scum implying shea scum into a day two mislynch.


For now though, I'm going to join Shea. Honestly partially because I'll be bored if this game goes into night too early. But partially because I thought snarky's posting so far was ever so slightly scummy and I really would like to see more from him (and others too).

Unvote

I really really really don't like this post.

Elaborate.

And unless I see someone who I prefer to vote over katsuki

and

who has a budding wagon my vote is effectively on katsuki.

tsq-
This is my "or 2". I would say this would be reason enough to be scared if I followed you line of reasoning.

P edit.
No I actually can't. I haven't been on ms for the past 3 years or so, and I don't have any completed games yet since my return. Feel free to look, but I won't be discussing on going games.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Got any old ones then?

And I think that a player saying they were unvoting because they literally agreed with me that it was too early to lynch is a little bit of a stretch as support for your argument.

It's not the unvote, it is whe he said for all intents and purposes his vote was still on kat.

[drmyshottyizsik]

lol.

Are you?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ironically, that particular quote was directed at shotty, roughly 5-6 years ago.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Tsq you were a duck back then, also I can post old games, but keep in mind they were years ago before college and before I grew up a tad.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Oh damn, VOTE: creature is scum.

Everything about 234 rubs me the wrong way. He criticizes every vote on the wagon (lazy, opportunistic, etc.) without actually saying what's wrong with the lynch. He doesn't offer an alternative vote, he just calls the wagon (in so many words) itself scummy. He's trying to distance himself from this wagon without offering anything substantial to get himself in trouble. If kats flips town he's my #1 suspect.

You know the hammer is dropped right.....

[drmyshottyizsik]

Fair enough if we are still in twilight when I'm back in my office I'll get some

[drmyshottyizsik]

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?tit ... hottyizsik
Here is my wiki. There is a basic grid of my games there.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Gern geschehen

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'm going to be V/LA until further notice. I have to investigate the actions taken against me by someone on this site, and I do not want my personal anger to affect my game.

@mod please confirm you have seen this via PM

? You are being forced replaced out of

ongoing game not named here

, so you need to take a V/LA here? This looks like an excuse to me. If you don't want to play then replace out. Do not stall this game out.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Because UT is doing a thing. I don't want him to stop doing the thing. If I divulge what thing he is doing he will stop doing it. This is pretty basic.

I'm picking up what you are putting down, but why say anything at all?

[drmyshottyizsik]

This keeping up business is hard!

Will try to read this game tomorrow and do things.

to be fair TSQ and I make up about half of the posts.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Kmd why do I deserve a snap vote if kat is town? I am one of the few voters who actually put forth reasoning.

P edit,
What kat said actually makes a lot of sense.

[drmyshottyizsik]

But that's not too surprising with this playerlist, especially given that I can see either kmd or snarky as scum (I think creature is town).

Yeah, you need to explain these KMD and Snarky reads in full. Expecially Snarky given his only post was a clear RVS vote at 12 when you made this assertion. I’d like to understand how that single post with no reaction to anything after gave you a fairly substantial scum read on him.

I wasn't intending to say that I had scumreads on them here; I was intending to say that it wasn't necessarily true that someone was bussing if Katsuki was scum.

Had 5 minutes before class to catch up and respond to this, will give meta and respond to anything else I missed after class.

"If Kat WAS scum", now I may be reading into this too much, but my gut twisted when I saw this.
Why are you assuming Kat is town? Why use "was" and not "is". What do know that I don't?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Look kage says hey don't vote tsq but I won't say why, then says oop vla. Why would more time change the importance of what you have to say kage? Why not tell us before you leave?

[drmyshottyizsik]

He said he has investigative results.

There's no real reason to elaborate beyond that.

He kind of said that and saod he had other results too.

[drmyshottyizsik]

And you're claiming an investigative role because you have a town result?

I obviously now have multiple reasons to claim, yes. My play would look much worse if I did not, and likely get Shea and I both mislynched.

Maybe I read this wrong then. I thought you meant you had multiple results to reveal.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Well then allow me to improve the level of their play. Fearless and hyperaggressive is the only right way to play town.

would you use either of these words to describe your play thus far?

I know I wouldn't
Lowell is someone to really look at today.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I don't want to harp on it too much because it might be just a theory point, but not only has lowell in my opinion been fearful and not even a little bit aggressive, he's been subtly taking pot shots at anyone whose play I WOULD describe using those words.

But I really need to gather my thoughts about today before I make another post. I have a lot that I think I want to talk about.

Lowell has 15 posts, none of which does he type more than 5 sentences.

[drmyshottyizsik]

More detail please.

Investigative

why on earth would you do this given that shea was in absolutely no danger of being lynched?

This looks bad on kage and snarky

[drmyshottyizsik]

Oh damn, VOTE: creature is scum.

Everything about 234 rubs me the wrong way. He criticizes every vote on the wagon (lazy, opportunistic, etc.) without actually saying what's wrong with the lynch. He doesn't offer an alternative vote, he just calls the wagon (in so many words) itself scummy. He's trying to distance himself from this wagon without offering anything substantial to get himself in trouble. If kats flips town he's my #1 suspect.

I really don't like this post. It is after the hammer and he seriously votes for creature. He was paying no attention and was just trying to fake it through.
VOTE: Lowell
I'm ok with parking my vote here for now.

p-edit

SS I'm less sure of because him asking reads as fishing to me

This.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I think I prefer SS to lowell.

Can we not do this again, though. We have a million things to discuss again, can we not lynch 5 days into day again?

Do you think that town players can have a "oh shit day's about to end and I've done nothing"? Moment?

[unvote[/unvote]
I can agree with this.

[drmyshottyizsik]

UNVOTE:

[drmyshottyizsik]

@tsq- I don't, actually. Town have "meh, oops, missed that one, guess I'll catch up tomorrow" moments. Or a "well I wasn't very helpful today, but I won't post at the last minute to confuse everyone" moments. Been there plenty.

Some other thoughts:
townvibes from shotty. This is almost entirely meta. He was scum in one of my games recently and in this he seems... happier, sort of.

Buddying me won't make me lower my

FoS

[drmyshottyizsik]

Heh, clever.

No, I'm saying you jumped on someone else's attack on me, opportunistically.

Wow this is scummy.
reVOTE: lowell even more ok with this now.

[drmyshottyizsik]

@tsq- I don't, actually. Town have "meh, oops, missed that one, guess I'll catch up tomorrow" moments. Or a "well I wasn't very helpful today, but I won't post at the last minute to confuse everyone" moments. Been there plenty.

Some other thoughts:
townvibes from shotty. This is almost entirely meta. He was scum in one of my games recently and in this he seems... happier, sort of.

Buddying me won't make me lower my

FoS

Is that game recent? Or is it ongoing or what?

Ongoing

[drmyshottyizsik]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=30908

:/

I think saying you have a read based on someone being scum in an ongoing game is on the wrong side of the don't talk about ongoing games rule.

I already reported it.

[drmyshottyizsik]

To who, the cops? I couldn't remember if it was ongoing, but in any event shotty is not.

No to the mod(s), you can't do that.

It does not matter if you are dead.
It does not matter if you don't think it will affect a game.
It does not matter if you aren't in the game.
It does not matter if you are posting about a game taking place on another forum or posting about an MS game on another forum.
It does not matter if you are moderating the game in question.

[drmyshottyizsik]

He said he has investigative results.

There's no real reason to elaborate beyond that.

He kind of said that and saod he had other results too.

No, yesterday, I said I was waiting on results. The result I was waiting on was investigation. Pretty simple. The results were VT. I can't vote for someone I know is VT, even if I don't like their play. Bottom line.

FoS on you.

FoS on me? lol
I need you to full claim, VT isn't what a cop would get, nor would a RC, a VC, or any other cop I've seen. You can get alignment or role, not both usually. This looks awful

P-Edit:
Welp I guess I'm not the only one who thinks this.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Re: Coaching. If you are going to accuse someone of coaching you have to say who they're coaching. It is not coaching to have strong opinions on how things should happen in a game of mafia. I was accused of this yesterday multiple times and now you're accusing implo of it as well. Who is he coaching? If you can't answer that question its a really stupid argument.

I'm suspicious of people who tend to try to lead a horse to water rather than making him drink. Put it that way.

So you are suspicious of people who scum hunt? Scum make the horse drink because they hold that power, they know that the horse is thirsty. On the flip side, town will lead people to water but can't make them drink. That is why town leads them there, to see if they are thirsty or not. You are just grasping at this point. Try and think before you post, or at least understand the idiom you are trying to misrepresent as a scum tell before you talk about it.

[drmyshottyizsik]

FoS on me? lol
I need you to full claim, VT isn't what a cop would get, nor would a RC, a VC, or any other cop I've seen. You can get alignment or role, not both usually. This looks awful

P-Edit:
Welp I guess I'm not the only one who thinks this.

So explain to me this Shotty - who did it only occur for you to call Kage out on his claim until after he FOSed you?

I had to research and try to find a role that would match his claim. I have a newborn at home so that took a while. When I got into work this morning I looked around on the wiki and couldn't find anything plausible so I called him out on it. The timing merely a result of me needing to look thinks up and being limited.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Kage is clearly town. Shea is town as a result.

Agree with the first part. The second part not so much. As I said - regardless of how Town Kage is I can't see any investigation role giving the result Kage claimed that 100% clears Shea. And I don't relatively new Kage making a mistake and giving someone an incorrect read based on erroneous assumptions.

I agree. I could see him being a rolecop and getting a vanilla result and assuming this means vt, when in fact tsq could just be a vanilla goon(not saying he is but he could be). This is why I asked for a full claim.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Kage is clearly town. Shea is town as a result.

Agree with the first part. The second part not so much. As I said - regardless of how Town Kage is I can't see any investigation role giving the result Kage claimed that 100% clears Shea. And I don't relatively new Kage making a mistake and giving someone an incorrect read based on erroneous assumptions.

I agree. I could see him being a rolecop and getting a vanilla result and assuming this means vt, when in fact tsq could just be a vanilla goon(not saying he is but he could be). This is why I asked for a full claim.

Ironically, this IS coaching.

I'd call it more leading, but ya. Now I guess if he claims rolecop everyone can be like "Oh shotty coached him to claim that". I see your point.

[drmyshottyizsik]

To be fair, I had to look at the wiki even after getting the role-card.

Also, discussion not fruitful for me. I do not understand the things you guys are picking up on. I didn't have this problem in my other games. But here it seems like people are pulling excuses and reasons out of thin air. Is this how most games are?

Ok so all you get is VT or not VT, I can believe that. Ok say TSQ is conf town, and Kage is conf town. Time to re read.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Nvm, it is RVS. Thought I saw him making another post.

I was re reading and was confused by this. Care to explain?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ok done re reading
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snarky Snowman
He has 8 posts, but he has been on, and posting in places, and the only time he seems engaged is when he is trying to pull more info out of kage. This is classic and almost textbook lurker scum/opportune scum.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Shea, most of this can be figured out from my posts but here:
Town:
Kmd
Kage
Shea

Town Reads:
Creature
Snark

Weak Town:
Lowell
Magna

Null:
UT

Weak scum:
Implosion
BBT

Scum
Drmy

Why am I such a strong scum read? I'm one of the few who has actually scum hunted.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Does this come from a place of personal experience Shotty? I ask because I am assuming your assessment is based on meta with Snarky as lurker scum.

I can't comment one way or another on this since all my games with ss are ongoing

[drmyshottyizsik]

Ooo look at me, I'm shotty, I don't talk about ongoing games, mods love me.

I'll be mostly out this weekend. May have time tomorrow to check in, may not.

Dude what is this? Are you butt hurt because I reported you or because I follow the rules(trust me I've had my fair share of bans they suck)? Either way this is unnecessary and just more filler from you. If you are trying to coerce me into talking about ongoing games than that it super scummy, I take being mod killed very seriously

[drmyshottyizsik]

Chill bro, just messing with you. No humor on this site.

Not when it's an excuse

[drmyshottyizsik]

Um bbt, are you just nt even readimg? You are talking about xy being scummy but xy is dead town... thisbis just aweful

[drmyshottyizsik]

Can you explain why that's awful?

What is the scum motivation for what you believe I did?

I made no comment on your alignment, but since you assumed that I'll have to keep an eye on you. I meant as a player this is aweful. You've hardly contributed and you don't even know who is dead

[drmyshottyizsik]

So you wonder why people poke and try to scum hunt?

[drmyshottyizsik]

It wasn't scum hunting. You just said it was a statement that was

not

about alignment.

How is that scum hunting if it's not about alignment?

You where saying that you always think people are attacking you when they say something about you in any negative context. This seems awfully defensive and nervous. Town should have no issue with explaining themselves calmly. The fact that you are automatically jumping to defense mode makes me think you have something you are trying to defend.
VOTE: BBT

[drmyshottyizsik]

I do.

My life in this game.

But why assume you are being attacked? You are overly defensive, and instead of providing reasoning for why you aren't scum you are just bull shitting and getting aggressive. This is nervous scum behavior.

[drmyshottyizsik]

It's cute that you assume I would get nervous as scum.

If you were not attacking me, what was the point of that statement?

Wow now you are throwing in WIFOM! Great you are making this easy.

Again I am scum hunting, but now we've gone full circle and you are still scum.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I said that I made no comment on your alignment, you are twisting my words.

[drmyshottyizsik]

OK, then if the comment was not about my alignment; what was it's purpose?

To scum hunt, why can't you grasp this. It isn't hard.

[drmyshottyizsik]

OK, then if the comment was not about my alignment; what was it's purpose?

To scum hunt, why can't you grasp this. It isn't hard.

[drmyshottyizsik]

To scum hunt, why can't you grasp this. It isn't hard.

Would you say that the aim of scum hunting is to discern somebody's alignment?

I wasn't commenting on your alignment, that doesn't make it not scum hunting. I've made plenty of scum hunting posts that don't require me to comment on someones alignment

[drmyshottyizsik]

Okay I am here.

Just wondering, who replaced xyzzy?

VOTE: creature
Good lord you are scum, he is

fucking

dead.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Okay I am here.

Just wondering, who replaced xyzzy?

A corpse ...

Do you really expect to get Town cred off claiming to not know xyzzy was dead? Especially in light of BBT getting called out by someone for a less direct version of that theme?

I called BBT out on it too, I could understand it happening once, but this really looks like creature is trying to capitalize on this and on BBT. He is either trying to pull a "look I did it too so BBT can't be scum" thing in order to stop my BBT wagon or a "Oops I didn't know he was dead and I was scum I'd know who I killed" defense. Either way I say we lynch him and when he flips scum I say we go after BBT. This looks orchestrated.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Okay I am here.

Just wondering, who replaced xyzzy?

A corpse ...

Do you really expect to get Town cred off claiming to not know xyzzy was dead? Especially in light of BBT getting called out by someone for a less direct version of that theme?

I wasn't aiming for town cred, I noticed he didn't post anything for like 6 days and thought he was replaced.

This isn't any better! Towns first reaction to a new day is to see who died and re do their reads accordingly. Scum don't care.

[drmyshottyizsik]

You literally forgot post 412

Literally eh?

[drmyshottyizsik]

This exchange between me and Tammy is a good example of me giving an early townread and justification on someone. Iirc I then buddied her for the rest of the game (we were both town).

In this game I quickly give townreads on Garmr and Dwlee (in particular the Garmr read was very controversial and I believe I spent a fair amount of effort defending it early).

For comparison this is my only even vaguely recently completed scumgame (and it's 2 years old tomorrow). I also buddied the hell out of one townie in it (SKOT) to good effect, but I largely did it to try to emulate my town meta.

Can probably get a few more if really necessary.

I was re reading implo's iso in light of the recent wagon and this post stuck out like a sore thumb. This looks a pre planned deffense for "why I am town".

[drmyshottyizsik]

I was re reading implo's iso in light of the recent wagon and this post stuck out like a sore thumb. This looks a pre planned deffense for "why I am town".

Hmm... this is an interesting take as it was a direct response to Shea's repeated request for self-meta on Implosion buddying regardless of alignment.

Another scum point for Shottydor ...

Again I was reading your iso, I didn't see the interaction leading up to it. I'm getting there. Thank you for explaining, but I'm not voting you so why the scum point?

[drmyshottyizsik]

so really what is the case on implo in a nut shell?

[drmyshottyizsik]

implo wagon is horseshit.

I agree, I see one bad post that could have been pre planned but I dont see it as a scum tell.

[drmyshottyizsik]

implosion is just so town. Scum has to be on this wagon.

[drmyshottyizsik]

So I know I've been townreading Creature, but his latest interaction with Magna came off as trying to appease him rather than answer his concerns, especially the Implosion vote.

Creature, Magna wanted more info on your drmy scum read. Even if you're now fine with lynching Implosion instead, can you enlighten us on drmy?

Drmy, who specificaly do you think is scum on the Implosion wagon?

I'm in the middle of a VC analysis and iso read, but I'll get it to you tonight.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Man this game has stalled, sorry I've had limited coverage and only had a phone, I'll post later

[drmyshottyizsik]

And if UT is scum then it's

moderately

unlikely that snarky is.

I guess I can potentially read him purely through associatives if we can get a scumflip somewhere.

Why make that big of an assumption?

[drmyshottyizsik]

We lynched our roleblocker?
Damn.

Yes but to the towns credit he was refusing to claim

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'm glad someone found it funny

[drmyshottyizsik]

If implosion is scum, then so is SS.

[drmyshottyizsik]

@MoI, it lead to nothing sadly. Fairly useless VCA imo

[drmyshottyizsik]

If implosion is scum, then so is SS.

Uhhh no? Sorry that's just dumb.

That's a hell of a defense

[drmyshottyizsik]

If implosion is scum, then so is SS.

Huh?

^That was me hoping for an explanation

The way he has been so convinced implo was scum and yet made no attempt to provide a reason

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'm willing to test the waters but I'll wait for now

[drmyshottyizsik]

@MoI, it lead to nothing sadly. Fairly useless VCA imo

Why would you think it was worthwhile given there are no scum flips? I personally have a history with VCA so I know my thoughts on the matter but I'd like to hear your full thought process.

There wasn't much of a process. Wanted to cover my bases and I found nothing useful

[drmyshottyizsik]

But that's not too surprising with this playerlist, especially given that I can see either kmd or snarky as scum (I think creature is town).

Yeah, you need to explain these KMD and Snarky reads in full. Expecially Snarky given his only post was a clear RVS vote at 12 when you made this assertion. I’d like to understand how that single post with no reaction to anything after gave you a fairly substantial scum read on him.

I wasn't intending to say that I had scumreads on them here; I was intending to say that it wasn't necessarily true that someone was bussing if Katsuki was scum.

Had 5 minutes before class to catch up and respond to this, will give meta and respond to anything else I missed after class.

"If Kat WAS scum", now I may be reading into this too much, but my gut twisted when I saw this.
Why are you assuming Kat is town? Why use "was" and not "is". What do know that I don't?

I'm going back to this with my intent to hammer by 9PM central tonight. I still think this was one hell of a slip and show to me that implo knew that kat wasn't scum before the flip was revealed.

[drmyshottyizsik]

t-50m

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: implo
not buying the claim.

p-edit
no sir I don't like it.

p-edit 2
It says a lot about the point of view you are speaking from

p-edit 3
It's not my only reason but it is enough for me to hammer with one day left

p-edit 4&5
ninja'd

pedit 6
good lord this thread is busy

[drmyshottyizsik]

like the next 40 hours would have been a fucking gold mine in terms of scumhunting and shotty just cut them short

I'm going to have limited access, so ya I gave a dead line, no one seemed against your hammer really so eh. You're scum so it's ok.

[drmyshottyizsik]

If I were scum I'd have waited for magna to hammer.

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: Shotty

Hammer on someone you claimed to be “so Town it hurt” with the explanation of “Don’t buy the Claim”? A VT claim? With a claimed Neoplitan in the setup?

Nope

Creature is obviously still on my radar. He disappeared once he hopped over to Implosion and lurked out the pressure only to jump on today and suddenly be ActiveMan, posting Superhero!

Untrod I expect to hear more from as the day goes on and will sort him as that happens – as it stands I’m not sure on him.

Shea is obviously confirmed Town now. I liked BBT as likely Town before he replaced out and Arist has given me no reason to reverse that read. KMD’s thought process is pretty damn solid if you ask me so he’s Town.

Lowell is Lowell so … meh.

He claimed VT, and called is so 2011, but I still have a tad of the lynch all townies sediment flowing through my veins. We were approaching the end of the day and I was going to have limited access to the site from anything other than a phone. I didn't want to go away for a day and come back to a no lynch scenario D1. I stand behind that hammer, and while implo turned out to be town(and yes I was not completely sold on the lynch but again it is still better than a NL D1), at least we now know that implo is town and we can start narrowing down who scum is.

On that note,
VOTE: creature

With the flips we had I see him as the most viable candidate for scum today.

I'll start with this new one from him

Sorry for my lack of activity.

Thestatusquo, Lowell, Kmd4390, Aristophanes

Are you still there?

This screams of faking it to make it.
First of TSQ(shea for those who are still confused) has been and was one of the most active player in this game up until the end of the day. Aristophanes just replaced in and also was fairly active during the end of the day. Lowell is well lowell(still trying to read him, but the more I read of his games I see that is a fairly simple player). Kmd hates me so I want touch that yet, but I'm sure he will jump on my wagon at some point so I'll get there. For now though let's continue with creature.


After that last gem I quoted we get this

Thestatusquo is likely conf town.
Aristophanes is a strong town because of his play.
Lowell can also be considered town because I like his play.
Kmd4390 is a weaker town but I am seeing him as town.

Wow what a terrible attempt to make those names you threw out at first look meaningful.

I'm not sure if this is entirely relevant, but I would like to point out that creatures first two posts were votes on people that are now confirmed dead town.

Now on to a nit of meta.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

Now I will admit that he was killed fast and didn't post much but his play style in the above game(the only non ongoing game I can find that he was mafia), lines up pretty well with this game, especially when you juxtapose that to these town games that he played.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

To me it looks like creature is fairly new to mafia and just hasn't learned how to fake the scum hunting very well yet, and that is the glaring difference between this game(and his other scum game) and his town games.

I'll also ask this(since I had said if implo was scum then SS would be too).

creature

Why is snarky scum?

[drmyshottyizsik]

The game you linked was a game where mafia had majority. Stop creating fake cases.

VOTE: drmyshotty

Snarky is scum because your and MOI's interactions with him are terrible.

I just looked at your wiki and then ISO'd you in that game. It is the only game you had as mafia. I'm not creating a fake case.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Snarky is scum because your and MOI's interactions with him are terrible.

Also seriously? I really haven't interacted with SS. I haven't quoted him even once. Who is creating fake cases now?

[drmyshottyizsik]

The game you linked was a game where mafia had majority. Stop creating fake cases.

VOTE: drmyshotty

Snarky is scum because your and MOI's interactions with him are terrible.

I just looked at your wiki and then ISO'd you in that game. It is the only game you had as mafia. I'm not creating a fake case.

Lastly about the game I quoted you were playing traitors among us. The mafia is still the minority there are simply traitors.

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

Finally someone makes sense. Is this a PL?

No?

Then why the snarky vote?

Ok done re reading
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snarky Snowman
He has 8 posts, but he has been on, and posting in places, and the only time he seems engaged is when he is trying to pull more info out of kage. This is classic and almost textbook lurker scum/opportune scum.

None oh this is interaction with SS. He maybe the subject, but he and I did not interact. If I say man I hate Obama, I can't then very well say hey guys I had an interaction with Obama. Learn the definitions of words before you throw them out.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'm not sure if this is entirely relevant, but I would like to point out that creatures first two posts were votes on people that are now confirmed dead town.

How that proves anything?

Why so defensive, I even stated that I wasn't sure if it was even relevant.

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: SnarkySnowman

Finally someone makes sense. Is this a PL?

No?

Then why the snarky vote?

Ok done re reading
UNVOTE:
VOTE: Snarky Snowman
He has 8 posts, but he has been on, and posting in places, and the only time he seems engaged is when he is trying to pull more info out of kage. This is classic and almost textbook lurker scum/opportune scum.

None oh this is interaction with SS. He maybe the subject, but he and I did not interact. If I say man I hate Obama, I can't then very well say hey guys I had an interaction with Obama. Learn the definitions of words before you throw them out.

Still, the way you talk about him is stupid:
"Is this a PL?"
"Then why you voted him?"
"He's lurker scum"

You are making a case out of a rvs pl joke, me asking for a reason and me pointing out the ss was lurking................

[drmyshottyizsik]

The game you linked was a game where mafia had majority. Stop creating fake cases.

VOTE: drmyshotty

Snarky is scum because your and MOI's interactions with him are terrible.

I just looked at your wiki and then ISO'd you in that game. It is the only game you had as mafia. I'm not creating a fake case.

Lastly about the game I quoted you were playing traitors among us. The mafia is still the minority there are simply traitors.

The setup was:
Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Vanilla
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Traitor
Town Neapolitan
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla

Who do you think is scum here?

Do you know what traitors do...

[drmyshottyizsik]

The game you linked was a game where mafia had majority. Stop creating fake cases.

VOTE: drmyshotty

Snarky is scum because your and MOI's interactions with him are terrible.

I just looked at your wiki and then ISO'd you in that game. It is the only game you had as mafia. I'm not creating a fake case.

Lastly about the game I quoted you were playing traitors among us. The mafia is still the minority there are simply traitors.

The setup was:
Mafia Neapolitan
Mafia Vanilla
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Traitor
Mafia Traitor
Town Neapolitan
Town Vanilla
Town Vanilla

Who do you think is scum here?

Do you know what traitors do...

Traitors were uninformed Mafia in this game. No recruiting. No winning if main faction scum lost. Just uninformed Mafia, like VT in most games.

Well in that case throw the scum meta out. But in this game he definitely playing different then those town games. which for a newbie isn't usually very telling, because they are still learning and improving, however creature is playing worse in this game. It just really seems like a newbie who doesn't have much experience playing as scum still trying to figure out how to act like town

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'll do his ISO in the linked games.
Sorry for shooting that down, just wanted you to have the facts there.

No I appreciate it, like your name sake I'm arguing to find truth not to win, even if that means I am wrong

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'll do his ISO in the linked games.
Sorry for shooting that down, just wanted you to have the facts there.

No I appreciate it, like your name sake I'm arguing to find truth not to win, even if that means I am wrong

Finally someone who appreciates his thoughts!

I was president of my high schools philosophy club for 4 years. I love it, but I'll make a new thread for that so this doesn't get called buddying

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'll do his ISO in the linked games.
Sorry for shooting that down, just wanted you to have the facts there.

No I appreciate it, like your name sake I'm arguing to find truth not to win, even if that means I am wrong

Finally someone who appreciates his thoughts!

I was president of my high schools philosophy club for 4 years. I love it, but I'll make a new thread for that so this doesn't get called buddying

You are infinitely cooler now!
(But sure, another thread seems reasonable.)
Why are you worried about possible perceived buddying?

Because we are becoming buddies. It's not that I'm afraid, it is that this game isn't the place. I still have a scummy feeling about your slot, I really didn't like BBT, so I don't want to get distracted or swayed be you.

[drmyshottyizsik]

shea is getting frustrated that the game is full of pot

ato

heads

Edited this for you

[drmyshottyizsik]

MOD I’ll be V/LA from 5pm EDT today until Monday morning EDT for my usual weekend family duties.

Why so defensive, I even stated that I wasn't sure if it was even relevant.

Very important question Shotty – is defensivenss a scum-tell?

Well this depends. If you want a yes no answer the answer is no. However, the way someone handles their defense can be very telling. This is why I asked why he was being defensive. The defensiveness isn't the point the why is.

He claimed VT, and called is so 2011, but I still have a tad of the lynch all townies sediment flowing through my veins. We were approaching the end of the day and I was going to have limited access to the site from anything other than a phone. I didn't want to go away for a day and come back to a no lynch scenario D1. I stand behind that hammer, and while implo turned out to be town(and yes I was not completely sold on the lynch but again it is still better than a NL D1), at least we now know that implo is town and we can start narrowing down who scum is.

See the biggest hole in this argument is the whole “I was going to be V/LA and I didn’t want to no lynch”. Because that clearly wasn’t a concern. I had already told Implosion I was interested in throwing the hammer if he hadn’t claimed. There was more than a full Day left on the clock.

Also the “Lynch All Townies” excuse really doesn’t jibe with your post. If that was your motivation you would have said “Yeah, VT claim means I don’t have reason to back off”. But you did have motivation – you had just explained how Town the slot was.

However the fact that Implosion was calling for a lynch on you (which had a significant number of people who expressed interest in your head) I can see as a motivating factor for you to hammer Implosion – to cut off the chance the wagon could swing your way.

Yes you expressed an interest in hammering, but all it would take is one unvote and we are left with a no lynch. I wasn't willing to gamble that.

[drmyshottyizsik]

The way creature and shotty came out guns blazing at each other, then became bffs, warms my heart. oh but for game purposes it's classic "imma hammer my buddy look you guys (then when no one is looking cast votes elsewhere)"

Uh? I'm still voting for creature

[drmyshottyizsik]

Yes you expressed an interest in hammering, but all it would take is one unvote and we are left with a no lynch. I wasn't willing to gamble that.

Yeah I am going to call a big heaping helping of bullshit on this. 30+ hours til deadline and you were worried a lynch wouldn't occur when last minute lynches are taking place all over MS?

Vote happily stays in place.

I'm not going to bank on "well other games do X" in order to lynch scum in my games. This is a baseless attack. Answer me this MoI if not 30 hours then how many would be ok, according to you, for me to hammer, just so I can abide by your rules from now on. Also give me a link to the book you wrote on acceptable mafia time lines. I've stated my reasons. They won't change, and I still stand be my actions. You can keep your vote on me, go for it, but know that it is baseless and a waste of a vote.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Yes you expressed an interest in hammering, but all it would take is one unvote and we are left with a no lynch. I wasn't willing to gamble that.

Yeah I am going to call a big heaping helping of bullshit on this. 30+ hours til deadline and you were worried a lynch wouldn't occur when last minute lynches are taking place all over MS?

Vote happily stays in place.

Not to mention the fact(as you conveniently didn't) that I had announced my intent to hammer and when I was going to do it, and why before I hammered. This isn't an excuse I came up with after the fact. It was known I was going to hammer and when. Plenty of people were on and saw that and had the opportunity to unvote if they felt I shouldn't hammer.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Infact I even waited for a claim, I let implo respond to people, and I even waited an extra 10 minutes to hammer. At that point we were 24 hours from dead line and it was 9pm central. By the time I would wake up we would have 12 hours left, and I was going out of town that day and no access to a computer. MoI, for someone who also wanted to hammer(and would have a few hours later) you are making a huge deal out of this. I'll say it again, if I were scum I would have let you hammer or not cared about a no lynch.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Shit, BBT has a lot of games. Well, I'll get around to that another time.

Vote drmy

So from your wall post it seems like you have a stronger read on snarky and magna why the vote on me. especially since you even admitted you may be tunneling?

[drmyshottyizsik]

Shit, BBT has a lot of games. Well, I'll get around to that another time.

Vote drmy

So from your wall post it seems like you have a stronger read on snarky and magna why the vote on me. especially since you even admitted you may be tunneling?

Snark is scummy in the context of a VCA, but most of that is for voteparking Implosion which is meh at best. That's why I said in my conclusion section that I could POE him as scum at some point. Not exactly a strong read. Magna would be strong town if Creature is scum. Probably if you are scum too.

Lowell, can you give me an example of someone voting a specific way just to avoid looking bad in a VCA?

So join the creature wagon and when he is scum let us look at MoI

[drmyshottyizsik]

I'd rather keep voting a scum read.

That's fair.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Kmd4390

If Magna and I were town, how would you see everyone else?

I'd be left with drmy and Snark as likely scum then I'd have to reconsider my town reads on UT or Lowell. Probably Lowell unless UT and Snark appear to be cross bussing when I reread them.

Why all the WIFOM?

[drmyshottyizsik]

What's the wifom there shotty?

He set himself up to win in both situation. He successfully was about to poison a well and leave room for him to flip flop with an excuse. He is looking way to into the future, and seems to be planning this out as if h knows more than he should.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Why would I need an excuse for my reads to change as more information becomes availible?

This is a question you should be answering not me. I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just observing

[drmyshottyizsik]

creature

why is it that you seem to be going with the flow of the sheep, until I pressure you and vote you, then you vote me and start tunneling me.

[drmyshottyizsik]

I think town UT would be more concerned with trying to argue that he's not scum with me instead of just pointedly ignoring my vote.

meta for this?

[drmyshottyizsik]

it's not meta based. it's "my playing with UT tons of times and having a general feel for what our personal rapport is" based.

VOTE: ut
I'll put a sheep vote for pressure

[drmyshottyizsik]

VOTE: unvote

Two people willing to just sheep that casually for "pressure" is just fucking no beuno at all considering how late in the game we are.

What the fuck both of you.

It's late, I'm very drunk, I will reconsider tomorrow, but until.niw basically ut has not had much pressure put on him so I don't see the harm in using my.vote to pressure him and see what happens

[drmyshottyizsik]

There is still not a viable case on me and you are asking to hammer lowell? I haven't even been asked to claim and you want to hammer lowell? I'm at work, but I'll respond to this game when I get home. In the mean time someone give me bullet point as to why I am scum. I don't see it at all. The only thing is my hammer vote, which if you want to mislynch me over that then this town is screwed. I'm still standing behind my reason on that. I don't care if people believe them or not, they are what they are and they are not going to change.

[drmyshottyizsik]

Back from V/LA –

@Shea

– what ever happened to that “Sekrit UT Read Tech” from Day 1? It’s Day 3. You are confirmed Town. If you have something that strongly points to UT scum now is the time. Because UT scum would make a huge difference to my reads on multiple players.

I'm not going to bank on "well other games do X" in order to lynch scum in my games. This is a baseless attack. Answer me this MoI if not 30 hours then how many would be ok, according to you, for me to hammer, just so I can abide by your rules from now on. Also give me a link to the book you wrote on acceptable mafia time lines. I've stated my reasons. They won't change, and I still stand be my actions. You can keep your vote on me, go for it, but know that it is baseless and a waste of a vote.

This is deflection. You are choosing to focus solely on the 30 hour element and trying to make it so there is some bright-line test for time. Fact remains – you hammered a player you said was clearly Town just after said player suggested moving a vote towards you near deadline. This post is just window-dressing.

No, I've told what I did and why. Stop telling me what my motivation for my actions was. It was better than a no lynch, and like I said I believe there was at least 2 scum on that wagon. It gave us information and a place to start scum hunting from, come day.

He set himself up to win in both situation. He successfully was about to poison a well and leave room for him to flip flop with an excuse. He is looking way to into the future, and seems to be planning this out as if h knows more than he should.

This is a question you should be answering not me. I'm not accusing you of anything, I'm just observing

720 is literally an example of Shotty accusing KMD of scummy behavior (Poision the well, setting himself up in a WIFOM position to flip-flop).

722 basically says “Yeah, I’m not scum-hunting”

This is a gross misinterpretation of my words, and give me little faith in your "quotes". Don't put you words in quotations and say I said them. This is not what I said. I was scum hunting. Why is observing not scum hunting or in anyway a scum tell? I've said plenty of times, that I prefer to scum hunt based of reactions and observation. This is my play style not a scum tell.

It's late, I'm very drunk,

This is basically a scum-claim from Shotty.

Again what the hell are you talking about? It was mothers day weekend and my wife just had a baby. I took her out to dinner and we got drunk. I still stick by my pressure vote, and again it is because I scum hunt based on reaction and observation. Your style of bases accusations and twisting words and adding lies with quotes around them doesn't work for me.

But I like Drmy

I responded in red

[drmyshottyizsik]

ut great job!

[drmyshottyizsik]

i like the avatar dgb

[drmyshottyizsik]

I live in DFW, it is still funny as fuck

[drmyshottyizsik]

dirk is legend

DIRRRRRRRRRKKKKK NA*TOWN SCREAMS SO LOUD CAN'T HEAR HIS LAST NAME*SSSSSSSKIIIIIIIIIIIIIII. God I miss us being good

[drmyshottyizsik]

i like the avatar dgb

and i like yours LOL

This one is like 4 years old, wanna make me a new one?