Open 44 - Twofold Mafia: GAME OVER! before 506

[ChronX]

vote aioqwe

for reminding me of Joanie Cunningham

[ChronX]

VOTE CHRONX

He knows why

Do I?

@aio: Of course, no hard feelings. Your win was well done. Joanie Cunningham is a joke reference to that game tho...google it.

[ChronX]

VOTE CHRONX

He knows why

Do I?

@aio: Of course, no hard feelings. Your win was well done. Joanie Cunningham is a joke reference to that game tho...google it.

Oman says hi

I bet he only needed one finger to say hi. W/E, only one of you here so no carryover. Except...CHEVY RULEZZZZZZZ

[ChronX]

Any avatar works for me. I just have a lot of trouble keeping people straight without a picture to link to in my mind. It could be something really happy like kittens riding ponies over a rainbow bridge or something really sad like kittens riding ponies over a rainbow bridge

of death

.

I think you got this backwards.

[ChronX]

How'd you get the etch-a-sketch into jpg format?

[ChronX]

aioqwe has twice been edged to 3 votes, both in jokey-ish ways. The first I let go, because it seems we have been reduced to an art gallery so I wouldn't mind moving out of the random stage, this one I think is definitely time to move out of the random stage.

unvote
VOTE Dasquian

Purposefully voting him to 3. Anyone ready to apply a little pressure and start playing?

[ChronX]

I disagree. I read Dasquian's 2 posts as trying to be jokey and carefree and leave him an "out" that he was still in the random phase. I came out and said I was done with random. However, with a closer read just now I do see that Dasq says he is moving things along.

Possibly my bad, and I am fine with the vote on me calling me for it.

[ChronX]

You're right it looks like others arent' ready for even minor bandwagoning.

unvote

I'll come back in 7 pages when people are ready to play.

[ChronX]

Nuhn uh.

[ChronX]

Have you read the past 10 posts?

[ChronX]

unvote, vote ChronX

I'm curious about your commentless vote.

Do you think I'm scummy? Is it random? Are you trying to move out of the random phase?

[ChronX]

Oh, and

VOTE rishi

for bailing off of Dasquian and possibly prolonging our random stage misery. 3 votes isn't really anything to worry about if you are going to be active, you can remove at 4 or 5 just as easily if it gets there.

[ChronX]

/ooc Yes it is Rishi. I played it extensively back in the early days of it.

/ic I'm really not looking for a lynch, I'm looking for game. I have subbed into more games than I have been in from the start, and I just don't like to endure pages of nonsense. I believe in one random vote each, then someone needs to be willing to take some heat and propose a bandwagon, not leading to a lynch but leading to activity we can analyze and challenge.

ChronX 4 votes: JDodge (random/metagame vote), shaft.ed (purpose vote), theopur (purpose vote who has decided I'm scum based on no stated case), rishi (purpose vote/OMGUS vote maybe?)

[ChronX]

EBWOP: cross post with GH, my parenthetical comments after the votes are not based on his post

[ChronX]

Correct, shaft.ed. See post 75. I can take the heat. No worries.

[ChronX]

Not Voting: tylerJ, groinhammer

mod, in future vote counts would you pls include not voting players? thanks

[ChronX]

Though since there are two cops (one for each mafia), not even a cop result will totally clear anyone, remember.

My problem with the ChronX bandwagon is that it was just too easy - he lays into me for a semi-crap reason, everyone lays into him for being the first to put a foot out of line. It smacks of opportunism, and I find theopor and Rishi much more guilty of this than shaft.ed (who wasn't following a trend), hence my vote.

Actually I'm voting for him for saying he was going to lurk intentionally, then getting active once called on it, but since you didn't mention me in the first place (odd)...

There some revisionist history. You voted me during random voting for either jokey or not so jokey cross game reference purposes. You misrepresented me being huffy and posting sarcastically that I would check back in 7 pages as announcing that I was going to intentionally lurk. I WASN'T going to participate in another 7 pages of BS about stick drawings or whatever else, but I never said I was going to lurk once people decided to play, nor have I.

Now, let go of your grudge from another game and stop trying to frame me in this one. Its not very pro-town to cross-game in that way.

[ChronX]

Post 65, Tyler J said sounds like someone is making an early excuse for lurking.

[ChronX]

EBWOP: Tyler, that might not be the best vote right now. He's acting like a tool, but its too early in the game to even think about the WIFOM implications of whether he is doing that to cover being scum. *head hurts*

very graciously NOT FoSing or voting JDog

However, let it also be said if he acts scummy later, I am not going to ride this nobility thing to the point where it is impossible for me to vote him.

[ChronX]

Luckily, you aren't modding this one but just in case,

unvote

re

vote RISHI

[ChronX]

ALERT: Family plans most of the weekend, which includes Monday (US pseudo-holiday). Very limited time to spend on site.

/ooc @Theo please pass word on to the game you are modding if it unlocks in the meanwhile?

[ChronX]

I got prodded. Ow.

unvote

My vote on Rishi was based on early game nothingness and isn't a good one now.


I don't see the case on TylerJ at all. Other than one post trying to tie CA and me together (which I think was misbegotten sarcasm again), his play has been pretty involved and pro-town, one of the better it seems to me in fact. He has asked probing questions about me, Rishi, Theopur, JDodge, CA...he may throw his vote around, but there's nothing wrong with that on Day 1. To me, he is doing a good job of furthering the game, either by picking up on things himself or following up on others' lines of reasoning.


Groinhammer on the other hand seems to be following popular controversies and getting in on them second hand, at least according to my notes. He has been suspicious of me and Rishi, Theopor, CA and now Tyler all at the time when its a majority opinion, but I haven't noticed him take the initiative on any of those cases.

Vote: Groinhammer

[ChronX]

Yes, to clarify, I read that post about CA and I as a scumpair in the same vein as how you explained the dig about "lurking" at me...to see if you could get a rise out of him.

[ChronX]

And my only evidence is CA's attempts to protect him.

I agree that if CA came up scum, it wouldn't look very good for chronx.

What? By your logic, if CA is scummy, I'm scummy, then by extension, Tyler J is scummy because I defended HIM. One too many scum for a family.

Nice covert OMGUS though.

[ChronX]

Groinhammer on the other hand seems to be following popular controversies and getting in on them second hand, at least according to my notes. He has been suspicious of me and Rishi, Theopor, CA and now Tyler all at the time when its a majority opinion, but I haven't noticed him take the initiative on any of those cases.

Vote: Groinhammer

So (please correct me if I've got this wrong) yr. voting me b/c you think I'm being bussed too much???

Isn't bussing when one scum tries to implicate their fellow scum to ease suspicion on themselves?

How could you be "being bussed" too much? I'm the first person to raise a case on you.

To clarify what I said, you seem to try to get a feel for who is the fashionable scum suspect of the moment and throw your 2 cents in, to appear like you are actively hunting. In your most recent post, you articulate this again, by saying that you will switch your vote to a new bandwagon. Not, try to find someone scummy enough that you can build a convincing case of your own.

[ChronX]

I'm sorry for not posting for a few day. Chocolate attack did leave panzer in a bad position we cannot completely overlook it as theoretically it's still the same person.

Ckillor has still been sort-of scummy but cops sometimes try to do that.

I think shaft.ed could be scum but less so than Ckillor. Tyler's nonposts have said nothing (like rishi said above) he hasn't been giving reasoning aswell, He needs to say things he DOESN'T find scummy comment on posts by other people than the ones that are scummy, The way mafia moves forward is discussion 1 person saying the same thing does not make discussion.

Ugh, I HATE these kinds of covert fishing trips, or really bad play. Either way, this is not pro-town to speculate on who might be a town power role and why, on day 1 yet!

FoS Max

[ChronX]

Hmm. Max, do you think that the TylerJ wagon has enough momentum now that it will result in a lynch, so you can take your vote off the alternate candidate, thus giving the TylerJ wagon a little more of a boost?

HoS with cherries on top: Max

I think the ckillor attempted wagon will bear close scrutiny when we look for scum on Day 2, notably the 2 who have recently bailed off.

[ChronX]

PBPA of Rishi:

Random vote
Un-random vote when the pressure got on Dasq

If Dasq ever turns up scum, looks very suspicious, file away for future ref

Next few posts, gets into it with me over me wanting to move out of random stage.

Uses craplogic to convert me wanting to play and be done with random phase into me being overeager- to -lynch scum

Post 5, the bandwagon buddies joke.
Post 6, valid comment on the game setup.
Post 7, says he will pull the vote off me if I get other votes, otherwise it stays.
Post 8, metagame observation about JDodge, who I infer has had a conflict with Rishi in the past.
Post 9, weird
Post 10:

Why would you make that statement when you're one of the players who is standing out? It's hard to judge the alignment of the players who are standing out the most. I think each player has their own particular playstyle. I have noticed that some people, no matter if they are town or scum, they tend to lurk. Others will be loud no matter what.

"

This contradicts his persistence in going after TylerJ later in the game for "defensiveness".

Votes and unvotes Tyler based on misunderstanding/clarification.
Prodded.
Post 16, kind of admits to tunnelling, since he says he only reread 2 players who he finds scummy. Promises thoughts on other players after saying he finds it scummy that TylerJ finds people scummy.

duly noted

Next couple of posts argues with TylerJ. Asks him if ANYONE is protown.

TylerJ proceeds to say he finds me protown. Not good enough for Rishi

Next 2 posts, very sarcastic about TylerJ's answer.
Post 21, promises a read on more players "soon"
Post 22, contentless clarification
Post 23, contentless clarification
Post 24,

I told you what you could do to defend yourself, Tyler. I asked you to post a list of who you definitely thought was town. You only named ChronX and refused to give any more names. Still waiting on that "complete analysis" that you promised.

The fact is that you had been given chances. You just are not paying attention.

And if being defensive is your playstyle, I would suggest changing it in a hurry. Because being defensive will never reflect favorably on you

Continues to badger tylerJ for a list of protown suspects, when Rishi himself has not analyzed anyone other than me, TylerJ and by passing mention ckillor. Complains that he is still waiting for an analysis which TylerJ promised 4 hours AFTER Rishi's first promise of a more complete analysis, which we are still waiting for.

CONCLUSION: MajorFoS for tunnelvision, and hypocrisy: Rishi

[ChronX]

ChronX -- I didn't like his play in the early game and I don't like it now. He accuses me of tunnelvision, and yet he's been fairly focused on a few players. He focused on me early and now has turned his attention back on me. He had a brief attack on groinhammer, which I didn't understand. And then he picked the easiest target of all: Max. That's a fairly simple tactic: to go after the lurkers.

Are you reading this game when you made that comment? Please go back and read my 2 posts directed at Max and quote the word "lurker" used in either. Right you can't...because its not. I challenge him on 2 substantive issues.

TylerJ -- I think, reading his posts again, they are probably less scummy than aioqwe's, but he remains my top suspect because of what others have pointed out: he is reacting badly to the pressure. Maybe he's just an emotional player. Who knows? But maybe he's floundering scum.

Holy craplogic. You think TylerJ is most scummy because (1) others say so and (2) um, you wish he was?

[ChronX]

@ Groinhammer: I never saw much of the case on CA, he seemed inattentive to the game and tended to make sweeping general statements about game theory as much as anything, but he was also pro-ChronX (rightfully pointed out by others) so I admitted to myself I might have the blinders on and he might have done and effective job of buddying me.

Panzerjager's play has seemed scummier to me than CA's did. Cutesy posts always bother me when I come across them, they seem to be trying to buddy the whole town at once. His analysis isn't exactly groundbreaking when it comes to Theo or ckillor, and he plagiarizes my case on GH (you) without mentioning it has been said before.

And his vote on Tyler is dreadful. He votes him to -2 but says he will take it off if it gets to -1. His only case seems to be that Tyler has been overdefensive...which to me isn't a scumtell. Many players get freaked when the lynch heads their way, understandably people forget that the point is for your side to win and rarely must you survive to be considered a winner. Moving off the ckillor wagon, who he found incredibly scummy 24 hours earlier, to jump aboard the tyler one, doesn't look good at all.

I'll stick with Max for now but PJ isn't looking too good either.

This catch helps me see you in a better light as well.

[ChronX]

The sammich stuff and the shafted logo comments. It just rings hollow to me. But, you did a good job addressing the concerns against you. And full disclosure, you didn't set off screaming alarms when I read your stuff, I had a mental note to keep an eye on you because of CA's play; I was responding to GH direct question to me and wanted to respond fully rather than just addressing the one post which was rather weak.

You aren't really near the top of my LoS and have dropped with your calm response.

[ChronX]

EBWOP: OTHER'S CONCERNS about CA's play.

[ChronX]

*imagines what Rishi would have said if Tyler had voted for Max.

or if he had voted for someone else.*

Tyler, it is out of character for me to do this, but in this case I am going to ask for you to claim. The wagon on you isn't going away and there are a couple of players not voting whose actions, in this game and meta-wise, are not entirely predictable.

[ChronX]

This has been a really poor sequence of posts. Tyler makes the first really scummy post that I'm noticed him make in the game (301), but the only person who picks up on it is Rishi, who has tunnelvision on Tyler it has seemed to me.

However, I agree with Rishi that throwing an FoS on Max is kind of weak play from Tyler at this point. Voting him would be a confident town play; FoSing looks like an attempt to keep a little heat lit under Max (others have expressed some suspicion of him) but not committing yourself. Fearful, wishy washy play.

In the same thread, he buddies up to Shafted and Dasq. Reads as sympathy plea.

Shortly later, the sympathy plea works, as shafted hops in to vote me for my role claim call. If you meta me, you will find I actively campaign against day 1 role claims, so my play here is an exception (I almost typed "exceptional"). I feel some of the heat on tyler is forced, but I can see a couple of the non voters flinging down an "oh, fine, i'll vote the popular wagon to stop you all accusing ME of lurking" vote.

Panzerjager then posts a beaut, taking his vote OFF of Tyler, easing the pressure and making my roleclaim request meaningless. He pours a vote onto CK, who in 2 sentences and a pasted quote manages to contribute more to the game than he had to date ("I'm not even on the Tyler wagon" and lies ("I have been posting more content..." maybe in another thread, not this one). This fulfills shafted prophecy of the Tyler wagon losing steam, doubly since with the vote the ck one is now gaining momentum.

TylerJ refuses to claim, which at L-3 is the correct move.

Conclusions:

tylerJ has finally shown up on my radar with post 301, as noted in this post.

Rishi on the other hand, has earned a town point or 2; I think his remark to Tyler was on target, and he handled my sarcastic implied accusation of tunnelling with a good post as well.

Shafted votes me for the second time in the game for a rather flimsy reason, as well as his implied criticism of me in the middle of the game (the vote hopping more than theopor thing). I don't get it. He has expressed open suspicion of max and CA and Ckillor in his analyses, and has waffled on tyler's scumminess but seems in general agreement, but only now sees fit to slap a vote back on me, who he voted the first time for a reason he admitted was weak and unvoted quickly, and has since not analyzed me or mentioned me at all except obliquely.

I don't like panzerjager's unvote at all, because of his own statements in regard to his vote for tyler in the first place:

Without further ado, GH, I voted tyler because it generated almost 2 pages of conversation of Tyler under pressure. Seeing a person under pressure is key to determining if they are scum. He has not performed under pressure at all, but I've also noticed his join date, a mere two months ago. I can give him a little newbie leeway but his play reaks of unsure scum. I think I'm actually going to keep my vote here. I'm interested enough to see more from him and the one or two people who have risen quite a few alarms in regards to Tyler's pressure. That will wait for now. "Let the evidence gather

He wants to see Tyler perform under pressure but under the pressure of a call to role claim, he removes the pressure.

My suspect list continues to be Max and GH, but with 2 groups to hunt for, I need to look wider anyway, so I want to see Tyler's feet held to the fire a little longer:

unvote
VOTE: TylerJ

[ChronX]

If Max and GH are still your top suspects, and you're worried about someone(s) coming along and suddenly lynching an unclaimed player on a -2 bandwagon, why are you maintaining that player at -2 and moving your vote off of one of your top suspects?

There are 2 mafia and 2 members of each. We need to lynch a scum today, and or find out who is doing what in relation to bandwagons. My vote on GH was wasting its time, and is somewhat based on gut anyway. A vote on max at this time will give us some information, but I DON'T agree that we have (had) learned all we could learn from the Tyler wagon. Until we get more content from several players, including at least one ON the wagon (JDodge) we should keep the wagon in tact.

And yeah, shaft.ed was the least likely to hastily or inadvertently hammer from that bunch. ckillor is the most likely, I seem to recall him tossing an oh what the hell L-1 in some game I'm in with him. The fact that he's NOT piling into the wagon which opposes the one he is on I think is actually interesting, it suggest to me he may be scum afraid of the heat of casting such a vote.

[ChronX]

October 22, post 308, Panzerjager: "I still want a claim from tyler "

October 23, post 322, Panzerjager: "I'm very much against his claim at this point"
*******************************************************
"I would apperciate it if we got of of his wagon. He is quite obviously town."

Why the sudden turnaround on the claim?

*****************************************

Why would YOU appreciate it if we get off the wagon? What do you now know that we don't?

[ChronX]

Panzerjager's two remarkably fast 180s on Tyler is enough to have earned my vote. First he wants a claim, then he is adamantly against it; first he is willing to put himself on the block if Tyler turns out town, then he votes him.

The second one is the much more anti-town play. Volunteering for a lynching as town to vouch for your point is very poor, because if you turn out wrong, two townies go down. Appeal to emotion.

unvote
VOTE: Panzerjager

[ChronX]

Go Rishi. Save Panzerjager!

*insert obligatory comment about look at Rishi when I turn up town*
*insert obligatory comment about not being surprised that JDodge has found a way to put a vote on me*

[ChronX]

Once again, I will point out that JDodge and now Panzerjager are in a little club called Team Asshats together, with which I have had disagreement in the past. Mainly because they vote together without any real concern for the game or their roles in it.

The fact that they call themselves team Asshat is all you really need to know. They have no other reason, I feel bad for everyone else playing.