Mini 1812 | Quolls | Endgame

[Nachomamma8]

fuck kts i was gonna try something weird in this game so i'm not even supposed to be posting here right now but i'm fucking loving hands on the wheel - schoolboy q right now

[Nachomamma8]

don't worry about me rasko, i'll be back tomorrow

i like your entrance though!

[Nachomamma8]

I want to hypo results this game. Thinking out loud, wanted to do this all at once but it seems the longer I put it off until I have a significant chunk of time the longer I put off the game in general.

Explicitly Normal Investigative Roles:
Cop, Follower, Gunsmith, Jack of All Trades, Jailkeeper, Motion Detector, Neopolitan, Rolecop, Tracker, Vanilla Cop, Watcher

I don't think Rolecop should need to crumb their results.
Follower's results can be in the form of: Informative, Protective, Manipulative, Killing, Miscellaneous
Jailkeeper crumbs aren't important until 1 scum left
Tracker results are in the form of Person A --> Person B
Watcher results are in the form of Person B --> People Targeting.
JOAT needs to specify when they're using their investigative.

Hypoing format would be as simple (or complicated) as

N1 Murdercat Positive Vedith, Dragon of the West.
JOAT first investigative action.

If the player flipped cop/gunsmith, Murdercat would be scum (Target was murdercat, result was negative so "mafia" or "gun"). If Motion Detector, it would mean that motion was detected. If follower, it would mean that Murdercat used a protective action (Vedith is the second on the playerlist, "Protective" is the second follower option. If tracker, it would mean that Murdercat was seen following around Vedith. If watcher, it would mean that Dragon of the West and Vedith were seen targeting Murdercat. If JOAT, it would mean that the JOAT did use their investigative and thus the first investigative result listed in the role would count (so if JOAT flips Roleblocker, Cop, Tracker then it means that he used his cop and found Murdercat to be scum). If Vanilla Cop or Neapolitan, Murdercat would have returned Vanilla.

No, this is not all I plan on doing.

[Nachomamma8]

not u dwee

[Nachomamma8]

does anyone know what hypoclaiming is?

[Nachomamma8]

because if not then we need to start there before we attempt to build rome together

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Nacho

I know Nacho tends to lurk as scum and the fact that he hasn't provided a single comment on anyone bothers me a lot.

Your meta that I lurk as scum sucks donkey dick.

[Nachomamma8]

Isn't hypoclaiming the thing like on MU where you claim your theoretical peeks if you were a cop, so that cop can stay hidden but also reveal his peeks?

yep.

[Nachomamma8]

Yeah, I just don't see the point on page 12

You are not going to claim who you target, but rather who you already targeted.
If there is a cop, it will allow them to leave their results in thread after they died without having to out at any point to reveal them.

I want to hypo results this game. Thinking out loud, wanted to do this all at once but it seems the longer I put it off until I have a significant chunk of time the longer I put off the game in general.

Also why did you hold off on posting for this? I don't see why this is a priority now and I don't know why planning to hypo results would delay you from getting in the game.

i wanted my opening to look like that.
it's a strange opening, but that is a feature and not a bug.

[Nachomamma8]

I want more information on this and it's troublesome considering this thing without having anything else from nacho to look at. Also I'm wondering if this should be voted on, initial thought is that's just giving scum the control of the decision but like a regular wagon they may not want to group and peoples choices here is also information to analyse. What a headache though.

Is there anything in particular you'd like me to explain about it?

[Nachomamma8]

While I see the benefit to it, it really sounds like a mess and seems like it could go horribly. If hypo claims are made that are obviously faked, mafia will be able to PoE who is actually a PR role and who is not. Personally, I don't trust myself to fake hypo claims and be able to play through the game acting in a way that is consistent to what I've claimed (which is what you have to do to make sure scum don't know you're faking). This is only my third game D:

There are enough moving parts in the hypo claim where it's pretty difficult to catch out what's noise and what's good faking; each hypo claim has ~9-11 different pieces of information that it could be crumbing, which means it's much more difficult to POE than in a normal game.

[Nachomamma8]

Could you link me a game where that actually worked?

Enjoy. I haven't seen this specific type of claiming used in a Normal Game before, but that general playstyle is where I got the idea. I can probably find a good example of it at its best if you'd like, but I don't think the investment of time is a particularly good one at the moment.

[Nachomamma8]

I've only seen that kind of claiming work where everyone has pr? Ughhh.

I haven't seen that claiming period.

[Nachomamma8]

Also, to all of those who are wondering, I will catch up and become a presence in this game during the weekend.
I will continue talking about claim stuff and stay current because it's easy.

[Nachomamma8]

N1 Murdercat Positive Vedith, Dragon of the West.
JOAT first investigative action.

If the player flipped cop/gunsmith, Murdercat would be scum (Target was murdercat, result was negative so "mafia" or "gun"). If Motion Detector, it would mean that motion was detected. If follower, it would mean that Murdercat used a protective action (Vedith is the second on the playerlist, "Protective" is the second follower option. If tracker, it would mean that Murdercat was seen following around Vedith. If watcher, it would mean that Dragon of the West and Vedith were seen targeting Murdercat. If JOAT, it would mean that the JOAT did use their investigative and thus the first investigative result listed in the role would count (so if JOAT flips Roleblocker, Cop, Tracker then it means that he used his cop and found Murdercat to be scum). If Vanilla Cop or Neapolitan, Murdercat would have returned Vanilla.

This is what I mean that it's a claim that has 11 different pieces.
The same hypoclaim (Murdercat Positive Vedith, Dragon of the West) could mean that Murdercat is Vanilla or Murdercat is Guilty or Mudercat targeted another player or was targeted or used a protective action, etc.
Because the same claim can mean such a large number of things, it's much more difficult to PoE based on those claims alone. Does that make sense?

[Nachomamma8]

Figured. I just get lucky a lot

I will say that you will know I'm town by the end of the day.

I think that this post looks town.

wait people are voting who I want and I don't have to yell, kick, scream, and death tunnel to get it to happen?

excuse me while I pinch myself.

This post seemed slightly town; it seemed like the type of thing that would be genuine regardless of Robbnva's alignment, but probably less likely to be expressed if he was scum.

VOTE: dwlee

Youre scum this game

That wasn't my impression; I thought that the point he brought up against you was a decent one.
Why didn't you answer it?

VOTE: dwlee

Why?

This vote makes Bella/Hiplop less likely to be a pair; I have trouble seeing Bella as scum immediately backing up hiplop as a partner against Dwlee, but I have concerns that she could be taking advantage of a weird-looking hiplop push.

108 is a good post; I like and agree with his takes on Dwlee and the Robbnva thing specifically. It's not a significant enough thing to factor into a townread, but noting it anyways.

This early, it doesn't surprise me. I find it interesting Hiplop offers an explanation without voting, and Bella votes without explaining. Something about the vote from Bella especially feels off.

bella knows to trust me, duh

This + "I'm confirmed town, ASP is not" both seem like ridiculous things that hiplop is more likely to say as town than scum, although I don't really have any real experience with hiplop as scum so I don't know if this feeling is correct or not.

Fairly confident that Rasko is town here.

I'd like to say that the abrasive edge on Vedith's post makes him more likely to be town, but I can't really say that it does.

Your "pressure vote" is fake as fuck. You know I'm gonna post something of value eventually and they you can say: look! I pressured him and he commited! See how awesome I am?
NOT

I don't disagree that Jester's posting before this point looked pretty poor, but I'm not really sure that I can see Jester as scum making such a big deal out of being pressure voted; it's fairly obvious the pressure goes away once he starts giving reads, but instead of just giving reads, he complains about people pressure voting and pushes back in a weird way. This looks more like he's stubbornly standing up for PRINCIPLES over anything else and that's a position I think that he's less likely to take as scum.

I don't understand why Shadow is tunneling Vedith.

[Nachomamma8]

I hated the signature quote thing from dwlee, hence the vote.

Why did you hate the signature quote thing?

What do you think about the ASP wagon?

It's not on a townread.
I don't really think it's a great wagon.

The claim game is really distracting from what we should be doing at this point. As much as a town Nacho is very useful, I have seen 0 signs of that.

So I agree that he should come forward and lay out his reads.

I could see if I was distracting from something productive that was happening in thread, but nothing productive was actually happening in thread. The only thing that seems to have any sort of rhyme or reason behind it is the Simple Plan wagon but from what I've read of that so far it's not exactly compelling to me.

My major complaint with your push on me (not that I think that it's necessarily indicative of any sort of alignment from you) is that it's useless and you know that it's useless; I'd expect you to be familiar enough with my scumgame where you know that I don't lurk if scum if I can help it which means that my lurking, for the most part, is not alignment indicative. I would also argue that the push on me is more distracting from "what the town needs to do" than the claim plan was; right now, people are expecting me to ~do things~ while they aren't actually doing things themselves which somehow means that they're absolved from looking around them.

[Nachomamma8]

Starting from now on, regardless of alignment. Day 1 I will basically be a sheep. I will not be pushing for any lynches and only join whatever lynch the majority decides. People don't listen to me when I make pushes so I won't be pushing anymore.

Hiplop what were you trying to say here?

Hiplop, I think it was pretty obvious based on context that you were pointing out that Robbnva was deviating from what he said he'd do D1 or you were pointing out that people were listening to Robbnva even though he said no one either did. I find either interpretation completely reasonable; I think that shutting Dwlee down in response to him was dumb when it seemed pretty likely that he was genuinely trying to figure you out.

[Nachomamma8]

I think that Jester, Dwlee, All in, Rasko, MURDERCAT, and hiplop are likelier town than not. I have a few vague leanings for who I think scum might be in the remaining group, but am not yet interested in talking about them.

[Nachomamma8]

Next, elaborating on the plan. A hypoclaim is a claim where all players claim what results they would have gotten if they have a power role so that power roles can truthfully claim their results without the scum being able to root them out immediately and kill them. The advantage of this plan is that there will be a 0% chance of a power role dying without town getting their advantage, which is mitigated by scum having a higher chance of finding power roles, which I hope will be significantly mitigated by the increased number of possibilities that each hypoclaim represents.

The format of each hypoclaim goes like this:

Night X Name of Player Positive/Negative Name of Player, Additional Name(s) of Players (optional)
JOAT Ability (optional)

This means that you always need a night, a name of a player, the word POSITIVE or NEGATIVE, and then the name of another player.

Examples of proper hypoclaims:

N1 Jester Positive Vedith
1st Investigative JOAT

N2 Dwlee Negative Hiplop, Raskolinov, Nachomamma8

N3 MURDERCAT Positive MURDERCAT

[Nachomamma8]

Actually nacho thinks it's a good point and wonders why he doesn't answer, but comes away with a hiplop townread anyways. Nacho's townread on hiplop in general I don't follow either.

I don't think that it is something that hiplop is more likely to do as scum as town. I thought hiplop's original point was bad (which doesn't have anything to do with alignment), but I thought Dwlee picking up on it and pressing him on it was good. I thought hiplop engaging with Dwlee would help Dwlee's read there and I worked up facilitate that.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho's if you're town you know murder and all in just finished townreading you on one-sided/limited meta (I'm sure at least all-in is town) and how wrong it would be since you can fake these posts as scum, so how can you go on to townread hiplop in the same way, admitting it's based on one-sided meta without alarm bells going off?

Murder and All-In both incorrectly scumread me due to thinking that I would lurk as scum but not town.

My townread on hiplop is because I don't think that he would play so lazily and so sloppily as scum; this is based on limited meta because part of it is his commentary on his own scum play and how I've seen him behave in the past, but while I'm not sure he doesn't do it as scum, I don't really see the motivation in copying that aspect of his town meta here (since it often gets him mislynched). Does that make sense?

[Nachomamma8]

As far as I can tell he's intentionally doing nothing (as opposed to everyone v/la, afk or seemingly unmotivated) and is content mostly answering questions despite him being leading wagon and the day going nowhere this close to deadline. I don't see ANY concern from someone being scumread by his townreads and I can't wrap my head around what he's doing; OTOH as scum he can wait/prepare until near the end to post to save himself and win vs the dragon wagon. But as town unless that is your top scumread you don't wait around like this, it doesn't make any sense.

If I can save myself as scum, why can't I save myself as town?

I don't know what concern you expect me to express at townreads pushing me; people are pushing me for lurking while I don't have time and that's it. MURDERCAT's push on me hasn't been updated since I've returned; it's an easy push based on me lurking and I'd love it if he actually tried to expand reasoning past that, but he won't. I have no idea why Dragon is voting me. Hiplop is voting me for shitty reasons based on him thinking he can read me like a book while he cannot, you're voting me because you think I should be guiding the town to glory even though I don't have the capability to do that right now, and Dwlee is probably voting me because he can't really get anything going.

You can tell me that I need to do things early and I need to do things now and you can say "oh, Nacho wouldn't string people along unless he was scum, Nacho wouldn't play suboptimal unless he was scum" but the truth of it all is that I wouldn't play suboptimal unless I wasn't engaged. You're assigning scum motivation where there isn't any; as scum, I'd generally expect that I'd have to put in more work to move the wagon since I couldn't just make engaged genuine posts and so would probably put in work earlier, but, again, I'm playing poorly because I don't have shit for time and I simply can't make the posts that I want to make. Lately, I've been posting so I didn't get prodded + replaced, am not overly sure when I have time but here I am doing my best.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho's if you're town you know murder and all in just finished townreading you on one-sided/limited meta (I'm sure at least all-in is town) and how wrong it would be since you can fake these posts as scum, so how can you go on to townread hiplop in the same way, admitting it's based on one-sided meta without alarm bells going off?

Murder and All-In both incorrectly scumread me due to thinking that I would lurk as scum but not town.

My townread on hiplop is because I don't think that he would play so lazily and so sloppily as scum; this is based on limited meta because part of it is his commentary on his own scum play and how I've seen him behave in the past, but while I'm not sure he doesn't do it as scum, I don't really see the motivation in copying that aspect of his town meta here (since it often gets him mislynched). Does that make sense?

Why didn't you respond to this post?

[Nachomamma8]

I haven't gotten into my scumreads yet because I haven't had time to form any; at a glance, I dislike KTS's general interactions with me. As fucked up as it is, I very sincerely appreciate the space that he's given me wrt lurking and wrt the plan but it seems like the amount of space that he's given me is unnatural, which is an interaction I'd expect from a scum-KTS who doesn't expect me to get lynched as town. I haven't really remembered anything that he's posted so far, expected him to find something to work with by now if he was town, but am unaware if lurking is AI for him or not.

I think Shadow Step's tunneling on All_In and Vedith looks weird; it looks like he picked their names out of a hat and pushed them. I think that the personal level between him and Vedith makes it seem less like it's coming from scum, but am not horrendously sold on that particular nuance.

I don't understand your case on ASP, but he could be scum based on uninspiring low-volume posting that's seems to be plaguing the game at the moment.

Dragon, see ASP.

Vedith, see Shadow_Step.

MURDERCAT I think is scummy mainly for meta differences but have a very limited meta experience with him and thus have pretty low confidence in voting there.

So, when I have the time to post, I expect that I'll focus on these people and try to see why Shadow is pushing, see what Vedith is doing, try to pick apart some of Dragon's catchup, see what MURDERCAT decides to do at this point in time, revisit your case on ASP and how ASP is responding. Right now, I can't really do any of that. The only thing that I can do is take a shot in the dark that won't really mean jack shit until I've done the work to actually like the vote. So, I'm waiting for me to have time.

[Nachomamma8]

I also don't know what the whole posting elsewhere thing is about; I can't really respond to it because yes I've been posting elsewhere but the fact that raises a red flag for you surprises me.

[Nachomamma8]

No scumread? No vote?

I wanted to wait to hear why shadowstep was tunneling all in before I put my vote on anyone. Also, I'm not the only one that doesn't have my vote on anyone and there are multiple people that have been unwilling to divulge their reads

Why bring up that you weren't the only person not voting?
Who has been unwilling to divulge their reads?

[Nachomamma8]

This the first I'm hearing about you not having time or low motivation; before you said you intentionally came in late and focused on what you did as a reaction test, and then said you didn't want to go into who you leaned scum on purpose as well, and just sounded so calm and fine being secretive you gave off this feeling of being fine with everything and doing what you wanted to be doing. Like you were giving off this "it's all going to plan" vibe which felt BS and none of the concern for the game situation or your personal one which I expected to see until now. You acted (or at least how I read it) like you did have control over what you were doing (as opposed to not having time = not really having resources to do what you wanted) and that made it look like you were intentionally holding out, which is my problem.

I think your general sense of me feeling that it was all going to plan because of my opening was something that you were reading into and not something that I actually meant to convey; I planned to discuss and fully explain the plan early in the day, and then kept putting off posting because I wanted that specific opening but it took work and that ended up pushing me further and further behind; generally when I'm low posting, I'm not low posting on purpose.

Not explicitly saying that I was busy was an oversight but I figured it was obvious enough based on the number of prod dodges I've posted here.

[Nachomamma8]

"not enough time" explanation and his early under-control public appearance contradict each other.

How do they contradict each other?

[Nachomamma8]

Id prefer asp death to kts

How do you feel about the murdercat reaction to the wagon forming?

You clearly think the reaction was scummy; why do you think that MURDERCAT would start a wagon on his partner and then express cold feet the second the wagon started to pick up steam? It seems odd to me that MURDERCAT would vote his partner in that position if he wasn't willing to let the wagon go through (there weren't a whole lot of wagons that actually looked like they were going through, meaning that people would be receptive to a new wagon).

[Nachomamma8]

would it be really bad if i said i'd rather just lynch dragon of the west?

[Nachomamma8]

apparently not!!

[Nachomamma8]

I'm confused by your point here. Are you saying that what murdercat did doesn't make sense for town!murder or scum!murder to do?

No.
You're arguing that Murder is scum with KTS.
Why does Murder decide to target KTS with a random wagon when there's a decent chance it will go through and then abandon it the second it gains momentum?

[Nachomamma8]

Rasko, if I die tonight, I need you and KTS to take up the plan mantle; I will probably have time to explain small things here and there before but I really think it's in town's best interest to have it in place. To answer a question that I left floating a little while earlier, I'm not sure where I fucked it up earlier but:

POSITIVE = Guilty for Cops, Gunsmiths, etc.
POSITIVE = Vanilla for Vanilla Cops/Rolecops?/etc

Make sense?

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Dragon of the West

[Nachomamma8]

how is ASP's entrance bad? It looks fine to me

Because he's voting Shadow Step, then likes where Shadow step is voting.
How does that look fine?

I think you can agree on a read with someone even when you're scumreading them. To discount whatever they say this early just because of your initial read on them would be dumb imo

So a large problem that I have with Dragon is his inability to produce content; this is around page 5, which means that it's not really completely unreasonable for him not to have produced anything significant so far but it still bothers me when coupled with the talk of apologies for not producing more; it means that he's aware of his lack of production and isn't actively working to fix it.

Murdercat is my strongest townread for his active hunting, questioning, and just play in general

I'm sort of surprised this Murder read died just because Murder was uncomfortable with people sheeping him.
Would like Dragon to talk about that Murder read a bit more.

I don't have any problem with the reasoning here from vedith, because the explanation itself is fine. What I do have a problem with the response itself. The question didn't seem like an attack onto vedith by shadowstep, but rather shadow pointing out inconsistencies in All in's judgement. That being said, vedith seems yucky

Shadowstep's argument was that All In was chainsawing Vedith by attacking him.

how is ASP's entrance bad? It looks fine to me

Because he's voting Shadow Step, then likes where Shadow step is voting.
How does that look fine?

I think you can agree on a read with someone even when you're scumreading them. To discount whatever they say this early just because of your initial read on them would be dumb imo

So a large problem that I have with Dragon is his inability to produce content; this is around page 5, which means that it's not really completely unreasonable for him not to have produced anything significant so far but it still bothers me when coupled with the talk of apologies for not producing more; it means that he's aware of his lack of production and isn't actively working to fix it.

Murdercat is my strongest townread for his active hunting, questioning, and just play in general

I'm sort of surprised this Murder read died just because Murder was uncomfortable with people sheeping him.
Would like Dragon to talk about that Murder read a bit more.

I don't have any problem with the reasoning here from vedith, because the explanation itself is fine. What I do have a problem with the response itself. The question didn't seem like an attack onto vedith by shadowstep, but rather shadow pointing out inconsistencies in All in's judgement. That being said, vedith seems yucky

Shadowstep's argument was that All In was chainsawing Vedith by attacking him, which is close enough to an attack on Vedith in my book.
Why did you think that Vedith seemed yucky here? Because he responded to something about him that wasn't an attack?

Overall nothing huge but seems like a fine vote to me.
Would also vote Shadowstep at this point for abandoning his tunnel so readily; also have a few problems with how he got there but will talk about that a little later.

[Nachomamma8]

I don't see a reason to swap from KTS to Dragon.

[Nachomamma8]

I'll get into it tomorrow, today is not a great day.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: A Simple Plan

I think this should be the lynch for the day.

If you think hiplop was killed because he was on scum, I was pretty much his suspect. MURDERCAT, why didn't you two follow up your thought with a push/doubts on me?

[Nachomamma8]

VOTE: Nacho

Let's start here.

Okay, why?

Well, it's very interesting that hiplop was killed, being of the wagon on scum.
He basically has been shouting Nacho is scum the entire time.
ASP was also someone on hiplop's radar.

hiplop is very good at scumhunting, so I think at least one of these 2 must be scum or they would not have killed him. Especially considering the low amount of content hiplop produced.

Simple as that.

Although to address this piece of reasoning, I don't kill lurkers who suspect me. Hiplop didn't have clout. Hiplop didn't have reasoning. The only reasoning for scum to kill him last night is because people had suspicions of him having a power role; a competent scumteam doesn't shoot there for any other reason.

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[Nachomamma8]

Stop quicklynching. Stop quickvoting.

[Nachomamma8]

Why is Shadow wanting to leave Bella for later a scumtell?

[Nachomamma8]

bella isn't confirmed scum

[Nachomamma8]

that's a shallow reading kts

[Nachomamma8]

your case is "he said we shouldn't lynch confirmed scum!! no town would ever think that!!"
this is a shallow case; am surprised that you think it's a particularly likely position for scum to take in a first place.

[Nachomamma8]

and to say that I'm being "purposefully dense" is a cop-out; if you believe Vedith, then you believe that I'm town.

[Nachomamma8]

Agreeing with the general push on that KTS. Would like to see a claim.

[Nachomamma8]

@Vedith can you confirm that you are a sane cop ?

Sane cop is the only possibility for a mini normal.

[Nachomamma8]

Vote: Vedith

I'm a Neapolitan with Not Vanilla results on Vedith and KTS (KTS two nights ago, Vedith last night). I don't think that there is town power beyond me + Bella + Rasko.

[Nachomamma8]

Nacho why didn't you wait until after mass claim to out those results?

I'm not particularly interested in waiting anymore; there have been three quicklynches in a row that have happened before I've been able to share results.

[Nachomamma8]

Framers are non-normal. Redirectors are non-normal. Abnormal sanities are non-normal.
Just for the record.

[Nachomamma8]

No, my current justification for claiming information on KTS now as opposed to later in the day is because the other days were rushed.

If you can find me a reason why you'd get a guilty on Bella in a normal game, I'll unvote.
Otherwise, if we lose this game to something that gave you a fake guilty, then fine.

[Nachomamma8]

You don't buy my attitude when you have an innocent report on me?
You think that I should vote not vote you on faith despite there being nothing in the Normal ruleset that actually implies that you could be town here?

[Nachomamma8]

It's impossible for you to have a guilty on Bella and her be town in a Normal game.
That's why I'm voting you.

[Nachomamma8]

I respect the fight, but if you can't answer the most basic of questions, then why continue fighting?

[Nachomamma8]

I'm asking you to name a possible role that could have caused this result.
It's a normal game, there are a limited amount of roles.

[Nachomamma8]

It's impossible for you to have a guilty on Bella and her be town in a Normal game.
That's why I'm voting you.

It's not though. It happened.
Think about what you are trying to accuse for 2 seconds.
You think I am scum cop with a JOAT + what ever else and town only have tracker, role cop and doc.
Where have you ever seen that in a game like this?

I think you are scum.
I never guessed that you were a cop.

[Nachomamma8]

I mean, I'm trying to accuse a someone who claimed a guilty on someone flipped town.

[Nachomamma8]

I never guessed that you were a cop.

I don't get what you mean.
If you think I'm scum then I am scum cop. How does that make sense?

I think you are scum. I don't think that you're a scum cop.
It's not like you got rolecopped as a cop or anything.

[Nachomamma8]

There's a list

I still don't get it, I'm not sure how I am supposed to know why I got a guilty.

If you can't understand why you got a guilty, how are we supposed to know how you got a guilty?

[Nachomamma8]

There's a list

I still don't get it, I'm not sure how I am supposed to know why I got a guilty.

If you can't understand why you got a guilty, how are we supposed to know how you got a guilty?

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't counterclaim immediately because I was trying to bait you to claim VT before I did so.

[Nachomamma8]

hen, they kill All In, my biggest pursuer, to fuck with everyone.

and yes because this is a strategy that makes sense.

[Nachomamma8]

I didn't counterclaim immediately because I was trying to bait you to claim VT before I did so.

And I didn't counterclaim when Vedith claimed cop earlier because he claimed one-shot, which seemed excessive but wasn't something I was 100% sure on. I wasn't afraid of my information dying with me for what I hope are obvious reasons.

[Nachomamma8]

And I'm sorry, I wasn't the one pushing for the Bella lynch yesterday. I wasn't the one calling Bella confirmed scum. I wasn't the one throwing shit at Shadow Step because he was skeptical about voting that "confirmed scum".

[Nachomamma8]

How did Nacho get a Not vanilla result on KTS if KTS is VT?

Anyway the voting indicates, at least one scum between nacho and vedith, or both are scum and this is their crazy gambit.

I get either Vanilla Townie results or "Not Vanilla Townie results.

This means that I get a VT result on a Vanilla Townie, and a not VT result on any Town Power Roles, Goons, or Scum Power Roles. Make sense?

[Nachomamma8]

that was certainly your first assumption

[Nachomamma8]

can we lynch vedith now?

[Nachomamma8]

1) Giving town tracker + doctor as the only power in a 13p game against a 2-shot roleblocker and a 1-shot vanilla cop doesn't really make sense; the equivalent in the Matrix 12 is the Tracker + Doctor vs 2 goons setup, which means that in order for KTS to be telling the truth Plotinus would have had to have beefed up the mafia for no real reason.

2) It should be obvious that I've been a PR based on two things in particular; first of all, the claiming plan I brought up at the beginning of the game that never really took wing was so that I'd be able to hypo my results without being countered immediately. Second of all, the hesitation I had with Bella as Vedith's guilty and pushing for KTS to claim early was a hint that I had a result on him.

Vote: Killthestory

I think this should be a pretty easy LyLo, but if you have any questions for me, feel free to ask.

[Nachomamma8]

And in the meantime, enjoy these posts from KTS and I on Day 4:

Stop quicklynching. Stop quickvoting.

She's scum.
When I die tonight Nacho and All In can be confirmed as town. If we assume 1 more scum it's KTS, Shadow or Murder.
I don't like Murder for scum though.

So for me it's between KTS and MC.
If Bella is conf scum we can lynch her later.
I think we should be lynching between these 2.

LMAO

you always lynch confirmed scum.

shadow just confirmed themselves as scum. You always lynch confirmed scum. You can push others, but you always lynch confirmed scum. Scumteam is shadow/bella

Why is Shadow wanting to leave Bella for later a scumtell?

because you always lynch confirmed scum?

thats like the stupidest question ever

bella isn't confirmed scum

he said if she were confirmed scum

so basically saying hed leave confirmed scum alive to lynch someone else. thats scummy as all hell.

that's a shallow reading kts

no, i think youre just being purposely dense.

your case is "he said we shouldn't lynch confirmed scum!! no town would ever think that!!"
this is a shallow case; am surprised that you think it's a particularly likely position for scum to take in a first place.

and to say that I'm being "purposefully dense" is a cop-out; if you believe Vedith, then you believe that I'm town.

your case is "he said we shouldn't lynch confirmed scum!! no town would ever think that!!"
this is a shallow case; am surprised that you think it's a particularly likely position for scum to take in a first place.

i come from tos forums where scum did shit like this all the time.

lmao it's suspicious if I hammer a townie the same way I hammer scum.

Nice try, but I think I'll pass.

Agreeing with the general push on that KTS. Would like to see a claim.

@Vedith can you confirm that you are a sane cop ?

Sane cop is the only possibility for a mini normal.

fuck you, you don't get a claim.

the people on my wagon are the butthurt ones.

VOTE: Bella

yes pls

[Nachomamma8]

Him voting me to allow a quickhammer is possibly the scummiest thing you can do in a LyLo in case of quickhammering.

You did it, too, Shadow, but the problem is that you're less of a scumbag than Nacho. Don't quickhammer, regardless.

I have a result on you that says that you're not a vanilla townie.
You claimed vanilla townie.
Why would I be worried about a quickhammer?

[Nachomamma8]

P-EDIT: I'm saying that to Shadow because you're a scum scum, and you know it.

"Him voting you in LyLo is the scummiest thing in the entire world."
"I have a result on you."
"I was saying that to Shadow and you know it."

?