Mini 488 - Killings in Clich├®-town - Game Over!

[Korlash]

Oh great... Deja Vu...

At least it won't take me 3 weeks to catch up in this one

Post back later tonight!

[Korlash]

Nope... (Wont say anymore till I get caught up)

[Korlash]

Ok... well then... It is nice to know I am able to read a complete thread in one night! If my nomination for the title "Crap logic Korlash" doesn't pan out I could always go for the more subtle "The Replacement!" Yeah... Wear a cool pair of shades... It could work... Nice image!

Ok enough BS, time to get to the crap... >.> <.<

First thoughts... All game I was pegging PP with mot likely town. I wanted to QFT her post 147... But I really don't feel like being on here too much longer tonight.

Um... I had a complete case against Jenter lined out... one on Vollkan too... But I believe both their claims(Or TheFonz's claim if you will) and so I just more or less tossed those out... leaving me with very little I'm afraid.

I wanted to ask something... Does anyone else, when you hear the word "Syndicate," think of some all women/ female leader gang? I don;t know where I got that impression but every time I hear that word that is the feeling I get... Seeing as how Adel said something about "Girls being more likely scum" and how the scum lynched was female and ever her replacement was... and I keep hearing that Adel is female...

^ Key reason for the Crap logic title BTW...

I could totally be blowing this out of proportion because I looked up the definition and it is more or less just a "gang" with no sexual orientation at all. I seriously cannot remember where i got that impression... I think FF 10-2.. oh and Vice City.. both had references to female syndicates... that could be it...

Anyways I wanted to get all of your guy's impressions on that before I totally went insane.

Back on track...

My list:
Town: Kison, ChronX, Korlash, Vollkan, Jenter, TheFonz

Scum: Adel, Guardian

Reasons:

I did not like how IH played... I might be able to post up specific points later...
Adel... yeah... Do I have to go into this? Played odd when first joined, said the other mason should NOT claim in post 391, contradicts that in post 403, then creates some false "trap" excuse... Ask Vollkan, I do not take kindly to so called "Traps!"

Also is voting based on a "Maybe" case... But not a bad reason in my book. (Means it is more or less crap. I would probably have ran with it if I saw it... But is that good or bad? Who knows ;P )

that is about it. I could bring up my case against Jenter and Vollkan but I see no reason to as it only harms what I believe to be truth. I hate how my previous player played... Can;t remember his initials... TC something...

Um... and that is it...

FYI: I am totally NOT trying to use my syndicate thing as an attack!!!!! I merely want to know if it is just me that has bad thinking when it comes to the term "Syndicate" or if others also have that problem. If it is just me then I will totally drop it, but if by some chance any of you also see some connection I may be inclined to press the matter... I would love to lynch mafia based on a term the MoD used.. sounds so exciting... ^^

And @ Vollkan: Yeah all the ellipsis in there were just for you! That was for that one number post you managed to slip in there. I was like on page 15 going "Why the hell hasn't he done his number thing" then all of a sudden BAM! Numbers! I think i cried...

Oh and

Vote: Adel

If She(?) comes up town then I think I will have to rethink my stuff... But it does put us in a good position tomorrow to get another investigation. But if she turns out scum then i think I more or less have a semi-good feel of the game, Fonz investigates either Guardian, myself, or Kison. And we get a 50-50 chance tomorrow... Or 100% if he hits right!!!

Either way I look at it Adel is a good lynch to put us in town victory range (Either affiliation)

*sighs*

Man... That was fun... Time to go to sleep... ZzZzZzZzzzz..... *snore*...

[Korlash]

NO! My reason for lynching Adel is not that she is female...

My reasons for lynching her:

1) She played odd in the beginning
2) She is one of the only three players left who are not claimed town
3) She more or less said that a counter claim was bad, then tried to excuse that by calling it a trap. I don't by that excuse.
4) OMGUS votes... quite a few actually
5) On top of those little to no real input
6) basing votes on weak flimsy not so likely scenarios
7) And yes, if she isn't scum then I know exactly who is.

I believe I can find a few actual posts somewhere that can support this, But I don't have the time this early. I still think she is the best bet for a lynch. However this is all based on the fact that I believe Fonz to be telling the truth.

[Korlash]

Wow... Did not see a Jenter wagon forming up... Anyways...

First off the term "Innocent" could simply have been used because he was killed night one. And thus he was simply an "Innocent Towny"(mason in this case) who had done absolutely nothing and had been killed for it.

f the innocent mason's pm said something explicit like "the alignment of your parter is not guaranteed" I know that I, as mafia mason, would want that guy dead

And how would the mafia mason know what his partner's pm said? I mean come on if he is mafia the alignment of his "Mason parter" would not be "Not guaranteed" and thus that sentence would have no place in the mafia's pm. And so there would be way of knowing what the town mason's pm said.

I think you two are trying a little to hard to press this mafia mason thing personally, But I have never actually seen the mason role used in a game I have played so I wouldn't know how the PM's are usually done. (As in the same Pm for each, or they each see the other's pm, or what.)

I'd love to hear more thoughts from the four who haven't posted during our one/two pages of content.

Pardon me for being at work all day...

[Korlash]

Ok I can choose to either believe the Fonz... And thus the remaining scum are Kison and guardian... Or I can choose to believe the Fonz is lying... Hmmm... I choose to be naive...

Vote: Guardian

I am willing to believe that little "I have not been wrong yet" speech was only there so he could strengthen his case today for killing a towny...

Anyways I suppose the big deal today will be to believe Fonz or not... My biggest issue, why would he fake claim so suddenly like he did? Then again why woudl he real claim also?

It is a bit of a gamble...

[Korlash]

~~~~~~~~~

Votecount

~~~~~~~~~

End of Page 21.

Guardian - 2 -

(Korlash, Jenter)

Jenter - 1 -

(Guardian)

Not Voting - 2 - (Kison, ChronX, the fonz)

With six alive, it takes

four

to lynch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

T_T Your words from beyond the grave have really touched my soul... I shall now mourn your passing with a moment of silence...

*Crunching sounds*

mmm.. chips...

[Korlash]

Korlash, I am deeply saddened by your vote before Fonz even posted. Honestly, it is pretty idiotic, what if he had an innocent on me? And Fonz definitely could be scum, there are way too many power roles, and also way too many innocent investigations. Jenter being a mafia mason helps that, but seriously, mason + doc + tracker + cop seems a bit MUCH without serious scum power.

It is not idiotic. I choose to believe him. And thus the only two possible scum are you and Kison. Of course that is me counting Jenter out... Personally I feel that is good enough logic. However, yes he could be lying. And so we now have the rest of the day to figure that out...

Either way, Jenter is the play for today.

Nope... Jenter is not today's play... Today's play would then be Kison... As he is the only one that has not had any claim what so ever... out of the three (Jenter, Guard, and Kison) Two of them are "claimed" town. however, both claims are pretty iffy.. A cop and a tracker seem a bit unlikely but possible, and a mason claim is also a not-so-bad one this game yet is not a given proof...

However this puts us in a bad situation. As the cop will most likely die tonight... If a mislynch would not end the game I could see a Jenter lynch. We lose the cop tonight but if we have another day then of course we would know the scum...

After reading the new stuff I think I may have changed my mind... being as how we are at LYLO... Apparently... we would have to kill a a scum... And while I find it hard that Guard would bus has partner at LYLO, I there have to believe one of them is scum while the other is innocent... Which of course means that Kison is the most logical choice still as he would be the other scum. But the talk of a "godfather" makes me doubt ChronX now..

I know for a fact then the lynch candidates are those four (Plus me of course)

So it is do we go for the most likely mafia today, lose our cop, and then be stuck with the word of Guard vs. Jenter. (Because we lose the cop we lose any new investigation)

Or do we go for the "win" and see if we can get the 50-50 shot at mafia between Jenter and Guard...

But I will keep my vote for now for two reasons:
1) I find the claim of Tracker would definitely be the best scum move... as it also instills the fear of a God Father and thus eliminates the claimed innocents... So I am not inclined to believe this yet.

2) This quote:

And Fonz definitely could be scum, there are way too many power roles, and also way too many innocent investigations.

really stuck out to me because you actually said it to me personally. So when you come back with:

and if you are a cop, which I *think* is likely,

I feel your earlier statement was to try and make me unvote and then this statement is just to try and get on the Cop's good side...

I will of course do what the town wants, the almost guaranteed mafia Kison, or the maybe mafia Guard. But I feel my vote is well placed for now...

[Korlash]

If Fonz had an innocent result on me, your vote WOULD look idiotic now.

Just because Fonz chose not to investigate me does voting at presumably lylo BEFORE Fonz revealed his investigation doesn't make your vote any less stupid. If Fonz had investigated me instead of you, you'd be looking incredibly scummy right now, even now I'm thinking Korlash + Jenter is a distinct possibility.

Dude... Your either misunderstanding me or blatantly trying to make me look anti-town here... Not sure which...

I KNOW i am town.. so at the beginning of today there were only two unclaimed innocent townies, you and Kison. Plain and simple. 2 unclaimed= two scum. So I went ahead and voted. If you had come up innocent in an investigation I would have unvoted. Then I would have wet myself because my logic woudl then dictate me and Kison were the remaining scum. Which is impossible!

I'm getting tired of arguing this with you but if you want to keep brining it up I am more then happy to banter back with you.

Actually, you may have a point there. How does this correlate with you keeping your vote on me?

Kison is the best play to actually lynch a mafia almost 90% ish... You on the other hand are a real threat tomorrow because your claim of tracker will be unable to be proven wrong. And so, because I find you incredibly scummy, it is far better to lynch you today then to let you slip out of it tomorrow. But even I am wrong sometimes about who is and who is not scum. Still think I am right here though...

Reread me/IH and Jenter. Hopefully you find me/IH more likely to be town. If you do, lynching Jenter today is the play, we can figure out who to lynch next based on who is alive, etc.

When I first reread I said I had a case against Jenter, while I also had bad vibes from IH. So I actually would find you both scummy if I reread. I woudl much rather just go off of the here and now + past claims for a bit.

I'm unsure about it right now, but I am leaning that he is a cop. You seem 100% convinced of him, and then like .05% convinced of me. It seems like you are the one trying to get on his good side, not me.

No, I choose to believe him for the moment and ran with my theory. so far it has not been proven wrong. And like I said, a tracker is the best possible scum claim. So I have no reason to believe you.

So while Kison is almost guaranteed mafia, and I am maybe mafia, you feel it is best to keep your vote on me???

I believe I answered this above...

@ Korlash:
You said "But the talk of a "godfather" makes me doubt ChronX now.. "

Why now?

Because me, you, and Vollkan were the claimed innocents. I am town, he is(was) town, and so you are the only claimed innocent that COULD be the Godfather. I know it is hardly a case but I still would like to ruminate on the possibility for a while.

Fonz raised sanity issues when he first claimed, and there has been speculation throughout the thread about Godfather. Almost every analysis has included the scenario that one of the innocents (me and Vollkan, now me and you) that Fonz has could be investigation immune.

Right right I remember now when I first joined there had been talk about the Godfather. I really didn't pay any attention to it and thus this is the first time I "remembered" hearing about the Godfather. My mistake yes, but as I said I am playing in the hear and now anyways.

Know that I am going to run with my case right now as it does seem to be getting something out of Guard. But know that I still consider you a possible Godfather. (As you should me if you are town)

[Korlash]

~~~~~~~~~

Votecount

~~~~~~~~~

Post 549.

Guardian - 3 -

(Korlash, Jenter, ChronX)

Jenter - 1 -

(Guardian)

Not Voting - 2 - (Kison, the fonz)

With six alive, it takes

four

to lynch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

And seriously, Korlash's vote is idiotic. Fonz just as easily could have investigated me and gotten an innocent.

*bangs head*

I'm serious is he just plain missing my point or ignoring it?

This is the last time I will say it:

There were only two not innocents at the beginning of the day, you and Kison, so There was no way *In my mind* you would have gotten an innocent. If in fact you had I would have unvoted and gone after Jenter... as he would then be lying. However this was also before I started thinking about the probability of a Godfather.

[qote="Jenter"]Yes, but why should he not have voted until he'd checked? You'd still be at -2, and the chances of a double hammer without him noticing, even at LyLo, are miniscule. [/quote]

QFT

[Korlash]

Now I get it. You were unwilling to consider options other than me and Kison before the day started.

Idiot, or scum?

As of that very second you two were the only non-claimed town. Sorry but that was enough to put up one vote. The mere fact you would claim off one vote kinda makes me more confidant that you are in fact lying and thus I eel your claim is "False"

In other words, I am just that good on day 4! =D

All joking aside, keep calling me idiot..that is bound to get me to move my vote... [/sarcasm]

Buddies?

A likely scenario. You should keep pushing it so I can shoot it down and make you look worse then you already do! =D

Seriously though, one of the most logical scenarios should include me as the Godfather right? In that case, yes Jenter would most likely be my partner. That is not the case but I do realize it is a possibility in yall's mind.

Anyways... i still feel my vote on Guard is gaining a lot of ground here. I at least feel comfortable in it. Which is odd... I normally am paranoid about voting a claimed power role... this is definitely a first for me...

[Korlash]

Occam? What is that... Was it in this game?

[Korlash]

See I would normally unvote come L-1 but I find it hard to do that because of the giant Ass he is being.. The way I see it either one of jenter and Chorx is the mafia with Kison, or Gaurd really is mafia... dangit... if not for that damn Godfather I wouldn't even be worried about it...


screw it I don't care anymore he plainly said he doesn't care about this site...


(Question to Fonz)

Was there a particular reason you investigated me last night?

[Korlash]

Peace & Love.

That is about the only thing you have said so far I don;t want to throw you into a burning building for...

And does anyone else have the image of Vash giving the peace sign stuck in your head? cause I don't! >.>

[Korlash]

Assume, even, that I am scum. How did I know that Adel *had no night choice*? I couldn't have said that more clearly without prematurely claiming -- and even if I am scum and I knew she was town -- how would I know that she didn't target anyone night zero?

Unvote:

I want you to point out where you said this or I will revote you. If you said it before she was lynched then I guess I will believe you for now. (I will look myself after I post this but I want you to show me also...)

Aside from that, seriously, my play and IH's has been more scummy than Jenter's? I'm willing to concede that I've been more immature and frustrated, but Jenter's play has had many flaws.

Oh I agree... My original read through case of Jenter covered half a page while my thoughts on IH barely lasted a paragraph. Yet when I was done He had the claim on his side. If you truly are the tracker I may just reopen my case on him. (and look closer at the Godfather possibility on Chron of course)

However your playing seems even worse then Jenter's...

And I hate to use this against him as it isn't particularly reliable, but he's the only player who hasn't been replaced. From my experience, from a meta standpoint, scum are much less likely to want replacement than pro-town players.

This is not true at all... every single one of my past games that had a replacement used the attack "Scum are more likely to replace when they get pressured" Or mightiness along that line. I also get that vanilla are more likely to replace then power roles. So I think his not replaceiness is due cause to believe he is the mason. Then again I would never replace if I were scum/vanilla so he may be the same.

I suspected you'd be vanilla. Hm. I'm definitely not interested in hammering at the moment.

That in no way shows you said she had no night choice... Re

vote: Guardian

Jenter is scum, seriously.

How?

[Korlash]

Hi Korly. Why were you so certain Guardian woulda come up guilty? If you already said it, please direct me to where you said it, not trying to make you repeat yourself here, but I don't recall of the top of my head.

I wasn't sure he would come up guilty, I was just left with only two not town people, and thus I assumed they were mafia. Yes this was not factoring in a Godfather, the mason lying, or the cop lying. so it was not a sound theory, but at the time there was no harm in voting.

Also, who all has roleclaimed so far? Pending that, I think we need to consider the possibility that one of the innocents thus far is a Godfather, but like I said, refreshing on the roleclaims would aid us with that.

Fonz= Cop
Jenter= Mason
me=Innocent
ChronX= Innocent
Guardian= Tracker
Kison = None

So either me or ChronX could be Godfather.

kk so I am what, mafia by default?

Unfortunately, yes...

[Korlash]

... Well I know why, but you did forget the Kison+ Guard pair or even the even unlikely Guard+ChornX, or the even more unlikely Guard+Jenter pairs...

Either way... You need to be lynched...

[Korlash]

How is Kison a guaranteed "can't be scum" ?

[Korlash]

~~~~~~~~~

Votecount

~~~~~~~~~

End of page 23.

Guardian - 2 -

(Jenter, ChronX)

Jenter - 1 -

(Guardian)

Not Voting - 2 - (Kison, the fonz)

With six alive, it takes

four

to lynch.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Um... What is the point? My claim will just be vanilla town and that is exactly what the Godfather would say... So... Me claiming isn't going to help...

[Korlash]

Yeah... I suppose so...

I still think Tracker is too easy to lie about to take him for his word...

[Korlash]

Yeah I hear what you are saying. The only persons left to claim are Kison and ChronX right...

[Korlash]

... Grrr... Have I ever told any of you how much I hate deadlines?...

GAW!!!! Someone post something...

[Korlash]

Guard apparently...

[Korlash]

Oh I am hoping we get this right too. I have said repeatedly I believe Kison to be the most obvious choice. But I feel you will slip through the cracks if we go that route...

The fact you have not been hammered has more then cinched it in my mind you are scum.

However... Due to the fact that a jenter/ChronX pair is not the most unlikely... I will

Unvote:

Come deadline... I will most likely throw my vote back on you. Unfortunately... I feel I need to reevaluate things a bit...

Now.. I would also like to point out you saying you "Think ChronX is the 4th town" makes me think he is in fact town should you turn up scum. And you are desperately trying to get him to believe you now. However... It could also be you see yoruself as going down and you want to make your partner seem innocent.. or you could have meant for it to draw unneeded attention onto ChronX tomorrow...

My head hurts... X.x

Need sleep...

I woudl like more input from the others here...

[Korlash]

This game sure has slowed down.. or has it always been thins slow?

[Korlash]

Personally I find one major flaw here... A) You "planted the seed" I think the scum are more likely to "plant a seed" then town. But I can also see breadcrumbing.

The major flaw? When you reach back and bring up your "plated seed" you are totally mistaken about it.

[Korlash]

Sure... But if i were to just believe everyone's claim at their word for it I suppose you wouldn't want me to vote Jenter eh?

[Korlash]

... Yeah but everyone els is not the tracker... your claiming to be... You cannot afford to not interpret your investigations...

[Korlash]

OMG! o.O 15 days! Thats almost 2 weeks!

- So you want me to move it up then?

[Korlash]

No I don't want you to move it up. i think this is plenty of time...

I thought of something today at work and If I reread and was right I think i do have something to say...

Well It is not as conclusive as I thought... But it still raises a bit of suspicion.

I suspected you'd be vanilla. Hm. I'm definitely not interested in hammering at the moment.

So you suspected she was Vanilla and even "had" a track on her.

Assume, even, that I am scum. How did I know that Adel *had no night choice*? I couldn't have said that more clearly without prematurely claiming -- and even if I am scum and I knew she was town -- how would I know that she didn't target anyone night zero?

So I find it kinda hard to fathom why it is you hammered her yesterday... Doesn't add up.

[Korlash]

Man i want to hammer him but I mean he is obviously a townie... *rolls eyes*

No seriously... I have been thinking... Yeah yeah I was shocked too! o.O

The mafia had a RB. Meaning it is very likely we have both a tracker and a cop.

Guard has not pulled his vote off Jenter yet. Won't prove his claim but it definitely is what he should do if he is in fact a tracker.

However knowing a mafia targeted me to RB and still trying to link me with Jenter as a scumpair is kinda ridiculous.

He was at L-1 before... And wasn't hammered by Kison. So in my mind the pair is either Kison/Guard or Jenter/ChronX with me leaning a lot toward Guard.

We still have a bit of deadline to go so I don't want to end this right now. More talk I suppose.

[Korlash]

Also, setting up a doc claim, vollkan, etc.?? Where are you getting that from?

Yeah I think he was actually setting up the tracker claim personally. And thus why he claimed so early.

[Korlash]

How would me unvoting Jenter make any sense at all for me to do?...Would you rather I vote ChronX?

I see how you could misunderstand me here and so I will not resort to name calling. I meant the fact you have not switched your vote helps your tracker claim. I meant it as a pro point. In fact the only pro point you have on your side.

But evidently, they have a tracker and a godfather

Your the only tracker I have seen claim so far. So your saying your a mafia tracker?

So from my POV, the scum are Jenter and ChronX.

Why not Kison?

Why?

Either your lying or telling the truth.. there is no why... it's logic...

If your lying then either your partner is bussing or not voting you. Becuase the scum win with a mislynch a bus is a stupid idea today. And so either you are lying and your partner is someone who has not voted you... Kison duh... or your telling the truth and the two people on you are scum, Jenter and ChronX. Reason? You would have been hammered back when I was on your wagon if one of them was not scum.

So thus why my pairings are there. Unless the scum are completely idiotic, I am right in one of those. If the mafia did Bus today... well... Then they suck...

One last thing:

As... ChonX pointed out

Can you for once prove this or explain it for me? You keep saying it and i have no idea what you mean... Show me where he pointed it out...

[Korlash]

Typo. Expect Jenter & ChronX to jump all over this. I meant to say mafia mason and godfather.

Accepted. I like to give people a few mistakes as I make more then my fair share. However I do think for someone as suspected as you you are reaching your maximum quota for the day. I myself see no reason to jump on it. So.. moving on...

He didn't hammer me. You Fonz and Kison are cleared if I am town, since you've all not hammered me at lylo.

Wow... I am stumped... I am normally so good at seeing things from my opponents POV... How did I miss that.. *nods* nice logic... Still all hinges on you being town, so forgive me for not counting Kison out just yet.

I meant why do you find me most suspicious. All your logic is correct there, though.

Ehh... it's kinda hard to sum up my case right now... It seems half the time it is just you and me talking then every now and then another player shows up to post something...

I'm thinking after I eat I may comeback and list out exactly why I put you at top, listing pro-points as well along with points for/against Jenter. (Why not ChronX? Because the lynch for today IS Guard or Jenter. Anyone who does not see that please do the following. Pick up pencil, shove into eye, repeat.)

Post 571 is where I responded.

Post 567 is where ChronX pointed out that he logically must be scum, if I am telling the truth.

Well let me check it out then...

Um... Forgive me if I cannot follow you...

Post 567:

Are we still doing the claiming thing?

vanilla

unvote

Except....

IH targeted Bookitty night 1, and she targeted TCS. Not useful now.

Guardian claims that Bookitty targetted TCS (Central Scrutinizer) with a night action. TCS is now Korlash, which Guardian is pushing as scum. Why would the mafia roleblocker roleblock a fellow mafia?

This contradiction is enough for me to confirm

VOTE: Guardian

Where did he mention Jenter at all? I just read it like.. 5 times... and I do not see it.. if you can bold or explain it to me please do. I have this nagging feeling I am a total idiot here... Also I think I am totally missing your point.

[Korlash]

If one of us got lynched, Fonz could have checked Guard overnight, and so it would have been obvious who the toher scum was.

Yes. But if you got Guard lynched you would win. It is an acceptable risk. Plus with the amount of doubt everyone is showing about Guard it is perfectly logical that both scum would sit on him.

Eh... why? We have NO IDEA if there's a godfather remember, and we had a doc, so doc+cop+2 masons+5 townies v.s. 2 goons + RBer seems reasonable. Compare this to doc+cop+track+mason+5 townies v.s. RBer+GF+Mafia Mason (Which would be a very unusual scumteam).

Um... A mafia RB is kinda overkill if we only have two powerroles (i.e. Doc+ cop) in most situations the mafia gain a RB when the town itself gets more powerroles then the mafia should be able to handle alone. (i.e. Cop+doc+tracker/RB)

I'm not saying anything about the Godfather here. Noted that you are. Only proves there is one should you turn out scum.

Basically in the hypothetical situtaion where Gurdian was a town tracker, This showed that you, being trageted by an RBer, must be town, Kison/Fonz had failed to hammer him at LyLo, so therefore ChronX and I must have been the scum. It's purely theory though...

Um... there is still no mention of Guard targeting Vollkan at all...

I tracked Jenter to vollkan. As... ChonX pointed out (nice play btw)

I fully understand the theory, I fully understand who is who's scum partner, I do not understand where ChronX ever said this. Someone show me.

[Korlash]

Actually that is good logic. Point taken.

Still The Mafia Don+Rb is pretty standard for Cop/Tracker/Doc I have never played a game with masons before so I do not know the standard for counting them as a power role here.

[Korlash]

Actually scratch that. My theory is based on the presence of a Vig/Sk also. Seeing as how neither of those seem to exist the Godfather is a bit much. especially seeing as how for that to work there has to be a scum-town pair of masons and that would just throw this game in the scum's favor.

It is becoming difficult to not vote Guard but I still cn;t bring myself to do it until I do two things. One is my exact case against him should be laid out and two I want the ChronX pointed it out thing to be cleared up.

More after work...

[Korlash]

First off yeah, that is a good question. I would like to hear the answer from guard.

Secondly I would appreciate it if Guard did not overlook my questions toward him the next time he posts.

I want the ChronX pointed it out thing to be cleared up.

< that...

Thirdly... I have already gone over this.. If Guard is scum the only obvious choice is Kison. Unless the mafia were "stupid smart" and decided to bus. Fonz is not scum because if he were he would have said he got a "guilty" on me today for the win. I am not scum because I know me, and Jenter/ChronX cannot be your partner for they are voting you (Unless of course they are busing which I have already gone over, yadda yadda yadda)

So I am not basing YOUR affiliation on Kisons, I am basing HIS off of you.

[Korlash]

Um.. Guard... You kept saying ChronX pointed out you Tracked Vollkan.. he never did... Now your claiming you said he called himself scum for pointing out a flaw in your defense... Nice...

as for Kison he is the ONLY person who would logically be your partner. he has not voted you at all today, everyone else has. You earlier said my logic on this was sound. Why change now?

Also i too believe Jenter would have been a bad track. Simply because he had all that "mafia mason" suspicion yesterday. i don;t think the mafia would have let him do the kill. BUt becuase there was no claimed Tracker I can see him doing the kill. I still cannot see why he was your pick... But eh... To each their own...

[Korlash]

omg.... If you understood me and though I was scummy, I could live with it. You don't.

I was saying ChronX pointed out I tracked Bookitty, who targeted TCS. Bookitty presumably wouldn't block her scum partner.

THIS MEANS YOUR ROLE IS TOWN. The only scum option was Jenter-ChronX or Jenter-you. ChronX eliminated Jenter-you, making it obvious he was scum.

He didn't point out a flaw in my defense, he pointed out how I'd failed to fully interpret my results.

First... if this is the case you have very very bad grammer...

second: Throw Kison's name in there like you should be and BAM... now you have something... of course it is now worthless.. thus.. scummy...

NO, because Kison hasn't been scummy.

Not all scum act scummy all game.. have you never seen a mafia win? I'll let you dwell on that for a bit...

Damn, seriously, I tracked scum and am at lynch -1 at lylo. This is ridiculous.

If this is true... I totally deserve the rant that will come end game... ><

Here is what I want... A good solid post from each person on the Guard wagon detailing exact reasons why your voting him. With the deadline now less then 2 weeks I feel I should start coming to a decision shortly...

[Korlash]

After reading that it came into my mind... What if they were both called "Innocent masons"? Just a thought...

I like ChronX's stuff... I even personally think the degree to which he is talking makes him seem more likely town. (By that I mean his talk about tomorrow) But I have been known to say the exact same detail when I myself was mafia... Just a good move on scum's part...

I'll wait on Guard's rebuttal and Fonz/Jenter to chime in before I too vote. As ChornX said, if Guard is mafia we will still have a lot to do tomorrow... So talk today could be helpful...

[Korlash]

... All I wanted was to hear why Jenter/Fonz is voting Guard, just like I wanted to hear it from you. I think wanting to get the game over this quickly is a bit odd coming from you all of a sudden...

[Korlash]

And I don't see you proposing anything new to discuss, just pontificating that there's no need to rush things. It doesn't make you look more town, you know.....

Right... Sorry if my waiting to be certain I'm hammering scum before I cost us the game is upsetting you... I mean we all have our faults right, like Guard's bad playing, and the stick up your ass.

If I remember correctly the last two pages have been MOSTLY ME! Where the hell have you been? Don't start talking about things you have no understanding about. Especially when your "case" is all admittedly based on something someone else said. Why don't you stop wasting my time and take your own advice...

I had hoped to find reasonable doubt in you and Jenter, but I never expected to see THIS much... Man if you are scum your the dumbest person I have ever seen play.

[Korlash]

Someone's having a bad day!! Nice talking to you, too!

you noticed that as well? Interesting...

[Korlash]

Please make a definitive statement about 1 or more of the 5 of us also in the game.

Sorry... Only scum can do that...

2. Why were you so willing to vote Guardian before Fonz had even turned up to post results, but now that he has been caught in a lie/misrepresentation (which was simultaneous to him pushing a case on you), and he is at L-1, you are having such a difficult time putting your vote back on him? What has changed to make him less votable?

Um.. you became a lot more scummy to me... And thus the Jenter/ChronX pair is a bit more believable in my mind. And I have already said why I voted him before the Fonz gave his investigation...

3. You want more talk, but so far all you have done to stimulate it is to ask the people voting Guardian to restate why. You then used my restatement to cast doubt on my status, with your comment that my case is "largely based on what others said", which is not true at all. Unless of course, you mean that my case is largely based on what IH and guardian have said, by "others".
Are you trying to get people to say things that you can use against them if we get to tomorrow?

See below:

My case rests on Fonz's quote above, scummy vibes/play from IH and the phoney baloney tracker claim.

your case is one third based on what the Fonz said. I admit I overstated the "Largely" as i did not fully read this sentence.

As for stimulating conversation I believe it was in the towns best interest. If guard is our tracker I would hate to have hammered his this early. Your reaction to me seems to indicate your angry I would rather be sure about him then just hammer right now, which I deem very scummy at LYLO.

4. Do you realize that I am not even trying to be subtle with points 2 and 3 in suggesting that I find your behavior lately to be scummy?

I bet you do. I would call the town who ruined my brilliant scum plan scummy too! Do you realize that I am not even trying to be subtle with my last sentence?

@ kison: I think you would do us a great service to be a bit more active right now... Maybe vote someone...

For Now I will

Vote: ChronX

I don't like how you reacted to me. If you had simply listed your reasons and left it at that I would have probably hammered Guard by now. But no, you suddenly got an attitude because I was "Trying to promote discussion."

[Korlash]

Uh huh... so... Better to lynch then let the mafia win by the deadline kill... Guess that means there is only one thing to do...

Unvote:, Vote: ChronX

Man... That didn't solve anything... Looks like you other town will have to come to your senses here...

*Rolls eyes*

[Korlash]

... moichido?

seriously... you need to stop over reacting so much... you want to call my vote OMGUS go ahead, cause you do suck because you seem like scum.

Korlash, I'm just as happy lynching ChronX, but you *do* realize that the only person ChronX can be scum with is Jenter, right?

Of course I do. But like I said, I would really like new discussion today and I am getting somewhere with ChronX. (Or I think so at least) Plus I can see what you and Kison are doing as busing so I have not totally counted you two out yet. I don't want to put Jenter too much on the spot just yet.

[Korlash]

Well if it makes you feel any better I really don't find you at all scummy for anything you have said about Guard... i think your scummy cause you basically said I was dumb for wanting to get more discussion instead of just rolling a dice and hammering Guard. (My own words)

Then your reaction seemed a bit off. but I have come to realize it is many a player's play style that i have to learn to deal with.

For now I think I'll leave it alone until we hear from Fonz...

[Korlash]

Actually the vote is mostly to see how quick i coudl get Guard to switch his vote. Apparently he is not inclined to just jump on anyone else. Good use of my time though.

You still have not told me what specifically your case on Guard is...

[Korlash]

Participate more? I have been!

As for voting, you know that I'm leaning towards Guardian, so why are you rushing me when you yourself have not made up your mind, Korlash?

HA HA HA HA HA... Ahhh... oh boy... That makes me laugh... I try to get a reaction out of Guard and get one out of kison... Look dude, bad choice of words... "Rushing you" is clearly a bit overstated. I would like a lot more then you have given so far that is for sure. As for voting someone it is the time to take a stand.

Another bad choice of words: "Make up your mind" First off we are in LYLO, so making up your mind HAS to be hard for a town to do. Trying to attack(ish) me for being careful only strengthens my case on you tomorrow.

You're defending me on points that will be irrelevant when they matter. Also, Guardian, from everyone's perspective, I am hardly your only potential partner. So clearing me does NOT clear you - so don't use me as your shield.

Your right... ChronX does get a small chance, Jenter a tiny tiny sliver, I myself am a good candidate, but overall, You are the most likely. In order of his possible partners: Kison, ChronX, Jenter. (Insert me at 2 for town's perspective)

This is all based on the "Scum had no reason to bus" theory.

If I was scum and Guardian was town, why is this game not over yet?

*Nods* so it is safe to say YOU are not scum while he is town. But you can still both be scum. Also you can both be town, and you can be town he can be scum. All possibilities covered, i feel it is most likely you two are scum...

I'll probably vote Guardian within the next day or two, as I think his defense is lacking significantly :

Right... In order to save yourself tomorrow you kill the "No bus theory" by making sure every single person has voted him so far today. Also, you even have a chance to make ME the only one not on his lynch. Interesting...

1) I don't follow the logic behind investigating Jenter, but this is rather minor.

2) I don't like how he's trying to make it sound like clearing me clears him.

3) I don't like how he pushed for Korlash despite his Tracker claim reasonably clearing him.

4) I find scum-town mason unlikely, though not impossible - but I never even bought the case on Jenter to begin with. I trust my gut and it's served me decently well so far !

now we are getting somewhere... First off... Where does it sound like clearing you clears him? I missed it.

So for those of you telling me I shouldn't be asking questions, I say silence!

Who said this?

a)I claimed a power at the time it had most benefit for the town for me to do so. Claiming yesterday would have been very bad.

Guard... you claimed, while unpressured, at LYLO, in a situation where even lynching scum would not win us the game. The only reason to claim right off the bat was if you were scum who had set up the claim to mislynch.

Well Fonz, jenter, and ChronX cannot all be scum. And i really do not like Kison's reaction... But I won't hold that against Guard.

hmmmm...

Unvote:, Vote: Guardian

I think as an experienced player you would know the repercussions of claiming so early. Unlike Fonz, who had the benefit of doc protection, You had nothings to fall back on, so you did, in fact, claim prematurely.

secondly, You really have done a bad play I think...

q/a: Yes, I am. Unequivocally, lynching me is the wrong play here. Lynching Jenter (or ChronX) is the right play.

Lynching ChronX is NOT the right play. I even said in my last post that my vote was merely to see what you would do. *sigh*

[Korlash]

... Actually Guard I think it's you who needs to learn to play. I gave you ample opportunity here and you have in no way proved anything.

Oh well... *yawns* i guess next time i won't take the fact your a blatant asshole against you then...

Seeing as how there is no more reason for him to lie I suppose GG scum i in fact in order... *sighs* damn... I even had Jenter pegged all throughout my readup.. How the hell did ChronX slip through my sights?

[Korlash]

Well this seems obvious...

Vote: Kison

Sorry for doubting you ChronX... =D

[Korlash]

you got that too? I thought I was nuts...

But I picked right yesterday so i figured a vote early won't hurt... Especially with 3 to lynch.

[Korlash]

Votecount:

As of post 684
Kison - 2 -

(Korlash, Jenter)

Jenter - 1 -

(Kison)

Not Voting - 1 -

(ChronX)

With four alive, it will take three to lynch.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

*nods*

I hear you... Man it is so nice to be bale to have a nice chat without the whole "That guy might be scum" thing... Now if only I had some tea...

[Korlash]

*nods* And there is my delema... I think Guard agreed with my "Logic" too quickly... he wanted me to think scum would not bus... Plus he did not do a good job of hiding the fact you two were related... In short... While I logically know your town, I cannot help but think you guy's planned it this way...

For now I wanted to ask ChronX what he thinks about Voting Jenter for the moment. I mean having both Kison and Jenter at L-1 the entire day has to put them on edge and keep them careful right? I think it is an ok strategy, plus it leaves both me and him the chance to hammer if/when it comes time to.

[Korlash]

With 4 voters, Jenter and I are logically going to be locked on one another. 3 votes to lynch, both can't be L-1 simultaneously. Just clearing up the confusion there.

Um.. you vote jenter, chronX votes jenter thats a L-1, jenter votes you I vote you thats a L-1, you will both be at L-1... *duh* with either me or ChronX begin the "Hammer" voter. Won't do a lot I know, but I think it could be worth it to see how you all react.

What I'm saying is this : You cannot say to Korlash and ChronX that simply because Guardian went after you yesterday, that you are town and I am scum. The entire plot yesterday very easily could have been to have Guardian(GF) go after Jenter(Goon) and have Jenter lynched, night kill The Fonz(cop) and leave everyone open as a suspect because the Godfather had not been found. This would easily secure a win for Guardian.

What is with the mafia failing in their fake stuff this game? You have completely missed the mason thing... You phail! Bad Kison... bad...

Jenter is the mason, mafia or town is still in jury. There has been no counterclaim after what.. 3 days now? 2? I mean come on...

On the flipside, even though things went bad for Guardian, it leaves me, the only other uninvestigated player, open as a very likely target because of the BUSing tactic.

um... Jenter has not been investigated either. Well not by a real investigator... Another phail...

Am I telling Korlash and ChronX to accept the above as true? No. I know it is true, but that is because I know my role, and you are the only other alternative. To Korlash and ChronX, it is just as likely that I was indeed Guardian's scumbuddy and that his buttering up was legitimate. It is 50% that they get it right.

You know it is true? So your telling me there is a goon and not a mafia mason?

The only thing I can do is to ask you two to look back and realize I have been consistent with my play the entire game.

That makes you town how?

Jenter - If I had hesitated, and someone else hammered, would you also be using this against me? I believe the answer to this question is yes. Why? Because your initial accusation was that I never voted scum in the first place. It was the obvious correct choice. What alternative did we have? Lynch The Fonz? That is a dumb move - if you want to test a cop claim, you don't lynch the cop in most cases. You lynch the investigated target. Guess what? It was the right move.

You can't call me scum for not voting scum, then call me scum for voting scum.

Two points, 1) I think a Bus attack is just as good as a not attack partners attack. 2) Jenter has to attack you with everything today, as do you have to attack him.

Ok... i see no reason to move my vote... I think we once again got a scum who does not think his fake things out fully. ChronX, what do you think? Am I over-reacting to this?

[Korlash]

Mason != innocent. I've never denied that Jenter is the Mason. Please do not imply that I have.

No, that is not what I meant. I mean, in the scenario you gave, you said he was a goon and not a mason. Very big mistake on your part.

I said the only OTHER uninvestigated player. In that scenario, I said Guardian dies. It's Jenter's perspective. I am the OTHER.

sorry i thought you were referring to you and Guard not being investigated. i suppose I can see what you mean.

You know what I meant. When I say goon, I mean non-Godfather.

Cover it up all you want, I feel it hurts your case a little. Just saying...

What makes me scum, Korlash?

I wish I knew O.o

Actually A basic process of elimination, he said/she said, guard partnership possibility, and the whole goon thing all add up. Not the most convincing argument yes, but given it is a 50/50 chance I say it is enough to run with for now...

I've responded to you being picky about my wording. Perhaps you can point out what I am faking.

You may think that the *fake* (Better word= Possible I guess) scenario you gave is accurate and that calling Jenter a goon means nothing, but to be honest, you will have to at some point throw the "mafia mason" attack out there, and this little "miswording" as your running with it kinda hurts you here. Either you know he is the mafia mason, or your a goon and know that the third mafia is a goon and thus you just slipped up.

[Korlash]

I have been thinking more and more on something...

Do you think the first kill, night 0, was random or the mafia? I think perhaps... the Scum mason thing holds weight here. "Innocent mason" could in fact refer to a scum/town masonship where the other knows the other's affiliation or something similar, (Hinted at maybe?) and thus it would be WHY he was chosen for the first kill...

Interested what you guys think of this... Probably already brought up but.. .<- replacement ><

[Korlash]

It was an obvious misuse of the word.

Yeah... kinda like back when Guard misused his own tracker results *rolls eyes*

Sorry, but if you are really town Jenter should be locked in your head as a mafia mason, especially if you have never refuted his claim of mason. So to call him anything else, no matter what, right now when you are so close to death... Yeah... Sorry but I'm a stubborn kind of guy!

You know what I meant. Goon, as in, not mason. You are being picky with my wording.

No, I do not know what you meant. Stop having to backtrack and fix mistakes and do it right the first time. Correct wording is everything at times in this game. Scum who can spend the entire time and never trip any scumdars until process of elimination hits him doesn't leave a lot to go on, so yeah, I will be damn picky about your wording at LYLO and when you are at L-1. You better be too.

[quote='Kison"]1. Lets not go round and round on semantics. It is clear to me that Kison meant "3rd mafia, not investigation immune". [/quote]

Thats cool. As long as you think that there is no way he can be lynched for it. But I won't drop it just yet.


[quote='ChronX"]2. Jenter's point that Kison hadn't voted for a lynched mafia was a strong one until it was refuted. We've blandly accepted his explanation, and again, I'm not going to go round and round about it. But that point, had I acted without waiting for verification and rebuttal, was a lynch-worthy point. So, it can easily be viewed as a gambit. This alone buys Kison additional time in my mind. [/quote]

Is it just me or have you and I reversed places today? Hmmm... Perhaps I should become a jackass and start insulting you now... =|

3. I am stalled on the "innocent mason" verbiage versus game setup. GF-RB-Mafia Mason vs Cop-Doc. The mason perforce dies night one if the mafia mason knows that the townie half knows that his cohort is mafia. This gives the mafia a safe claim, but the mod gives us a little hint that it isn't so safe. Alternately, if the doc hits 1/11 and protects the mason on the first night, the town mason can out the mafia mason immediately. Is this a balanced setup?

Yeah... I too have been weighing this possibility all night... Trying to see exactly who it benefits more... Which side gets overpowered, is it balanced, etc...

Personally I think giving the mafia an uncounterable safeclaim, RB, and GF without giving the town a tracker, cop, and Doc *At least* is kinda dumb. I mean a RB for two powers? Harsh... A GF for no nightkill/only one investigation? Harsh again... Scum-town masons... mafia is overpowered...

I am leaning towards the side of town-town masons, but still not enough to rule it out. I have never modded a game before so I do not know exactly where things are balanced and not.

On the other hand, GF-RB-3rd mafia maybe with a lite power vs Cop-Doc-Masons seems pretty balanced.

I don't know... I think the third mafia has to be a goon actually... I mean add in a vig/sk and maybe... but without them.... I cannot see three mafia powers...

[Korlash]

8nods* yup... No need to convince me here. Only ChronX...

[Korlash]

lolz... Yeah... I had to do a bit with other games.. i am in total agreement with the Kison lynch.

Guard is just plain funny sometimes...

[Korlash]

My townie of the match would be Korlash, he was more than sensible for the most part and was probably the best arguer and decider in the lategame.

WOOT!

Thats all I have to say about that... >.>

Nice... I'm glad this game ended fast enough to extend my winning streak a bit... I am afraid I have another game in the works I am sure to lsoe any day now

So yeah... great game and stuff... weird ending...

[Korlash]

BTW, me calling Jenter a Goon was NOT me trying to be sneaky.

I know. It's just I would really have believed you had you actually shown you truly believed him to be a scum mason. It's just one of those things you don't think matters but it does every now and then.