Mini Normal 1848 — Game Over!
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Are you referring to when RK townread Nero based on very little data?In post 2810, Lil Uzi Vert wrote: I'm not opppsed to a Nero lynch, I just can't shake the feeling that RK is scum based on how she described Nero's play.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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@LUV Ok, then you wouldn't be opposed to lynching Nero and confirming RK?
I was saying that if Naomi is town, I don't trust her to find the scum in LYLO, but if you are town, I do trust you. It was a statement on who to night confirm - Naomi is a better target than you are. I don't believe this anymore. The statement was based on perceived player skill.In post 2815, Nero Cain wrote:I'll get to the specifics of your case either later ronight or in the morning but if you think I am scum why did you say?
In post 2750, MortFeld wrote:I'm not confident at all in town!Naomi come LYLO,but I am confident in town!Nero.
Unvote because rb said he wants to slow down the game, and I agree.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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I should clarify this. You are less of a variable in my mind than Naomi is. I think she is town, but I could go either way. I am more sure that you are scum. This makes you a better lynch than a night confirm. But, I think your slot needs sorting before anything else.In post 2817, MortFeld wrote:It was a statement on who to night confirm - Naomi is a better target than you are. I don't believe this anymore.
I'm also not sold. Do you think she is scum?In post 2818, Nero Cain wrote:still not sold on Naomi being town after she basically admitted to pushing a bullshit argument.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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You said he posted elsewhere on the siteIn post 2827, Naomi-Tan wrote:I was saying you didn't post D2 I can't link to posts you didn't make-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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I didn't ask you to link the posts actually, just to copy and paste the time/date. You're EST right?In post 2830, Naomi-Tan wrote:I can't quote games that are active.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Yes! Scum no kill indefinitely please. 2 birds with one stone - makes this game especially notable for at least 2 reasons, and assures a town win.In post 2844, rb wrote:i feel like doing it just to see how long keyenpeydee will take to end the game somehow
can we do it?-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Are you saying that Nero focused you hard, and that Nero is "A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abandon"? Or are you saying that Nero thinks you are A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abadon?In post 2839, Naomi-Tan wrote:Im not sure if this'll fly for the rest of town but I'm gonna try it so here is another thing that may prove nero!red or me dumb. So; If you guys was in nero's position. Where you know there is one red left and one of the players focused you HARD, Like unreasonablly hard. Would you think they are
A) A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abadon that will only kill themselves and end the game if they are red the next day as its not in lylo.
or B) A Green who is convinced they know who the last red is
i feel that A) is not a thing that can really come from a green motive (as thats what nero selected) I think their vote is another red tell...
I'm not sure if you guys agree or if i'm just reaching but whatever. Thats for the world to choose.
If it's the former, your argument is circular. If it's the latter, I don't understand the point.
2841 is a derp, probably more of a townderp than a scumderp. Would you call this LAMIST? scum!Naomi saying 'scum might have a godfather' is an attempt to mimic a towntell, since obviously there can be no godfather in a normal, and town!Naomi wouldn't know the last mafia's role. Seems NAI.
2838 is pretty much how I feel about Nero's case on Naomi right now. I'd need more to think she's scum.
Naomi, just so you know, Arc is (probably?) going to announce who she's jailing before she does it. This gives her JK ability the added benefit of being able to confirm townies, in addition to being able to find scum. But it does mean that she won't jail someone based on a lynch's flip.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Thanks for explaining. You said that, if you really were a red tunneling hard on Nero, "if nero does flip green i'm pretty much killed myself and I think from a town perspective that would be kinda obvious." Why would it be less obvious from a scum perspective?In post 2852, Naomi-Tan wrote:Are you saying that Nero focused you hard, and that Nero is "A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abandon"? Or are you saying that Nero thinks you are A Red Looking to get a kill on a green with reckless abandon?
Im saying that its the latter here, but that view point doesn't line up with it being non-lylo (8 to 1) as if nero does flip green i'm pretty much killed myself and I think from a town perspective that would be kinda obvious. The fact they omgus'd and tried to convince others to lynch me rather than trying to convince me to drop where I'm going seems like a red move.. if you think about his motives for voting me its. They pushed me, and then got my idle times incorrect. Which both seem like kinda weak reasons.
That is, why would scum be more likely to take actions based on belief of the contrary; that the town might not sort you tomorrow, and that you need to be sorted today while Nero is alive to convince people?-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Let me restate your argument so I understand.
1) Nero is pushing Naomi.
2) His reason for doing so is Naomi's push on him.
3) Either Naomi's push is town motivated, or it is scum motivated.
4) For Nero to be voting Naomi for her push on Nero, Nero must think it is scum motivated.
5) This would characterize Naomi in Nero's mind as a Red looking to get a kill on a Green with reckless abandon.
5.5) the other side would be that Naomi is a Green who is convinced they know who the last red is.
6) A town player would have no reason to think that 4) and 5) are true. This is because it is obvious to town that a tunneling scum would die after they player they tunneled flips green.
6.5) The reason Nero doesn't see 6) is because he is only trying to assure a mislynch, not find the last scum.
7) Therefore, Nero's push must be scum motivated.
A few questions.
-Is this a faithful reproduction of your argument? If not, please let me know where I'm mixed up.
-How is 6.5) not circular? You are saying that Nero is missing a town perspective for 6) because he has a scum motivation (trying to get a mislynch) for voting you. But saying he has a scum motivation presupposes that he is scum-aligned.
-Is the second part of 6) true? Think about town!Nero. Assume he really does think you're the last scum. From his perspective, if he is lynched today and he flips town, do you really think he believes you will be lynched tomorrow?
I think you've hinted at the missing piece but I want to make sure you say it. I think this is pretty much a damning argument at this point in time given the right support.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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As 6.5 is stated it is circular.
Basically the missing piece is that Nero does believe that you won't be lynched tomorrow. This is obvious based on his voting you instead of RK. As town, he would have no reason to believe this, since you have been pushing him all day. As scum, he has ample reason to believe this. If he dies, the game is over. Therefore, his push of you is definitely scummy.
It is odd that he's not voting RK. His case against you (as it stands) is bad. As either alignment, you'd think he'd get on his counterwagon.
@Nero, Naomi is not getting lynched today. What do you think about RK?-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Are you saying that Nero does think town will actually lynch you tomorrow if Nero is lynched and flips town? I don't get what this post is responding to.In post 2858, Naomi-Tan wrote: well he did put a bit of shade my way heavily focusing on me getting the prod times wrong. also saying things like; shouldn't a player from a long time ago know this. Which kinda reads to me like he thought that he could turn the entire town on my Position given my Activity.
And why do you characterize this as shade? It seems valid to me. 'Trying to turn town against __' is also a way of framing 'trying to convince town that __ is scum,' which is something both town and scum do.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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You misunderstood my first question but it's not a big deal. I agree with your argument or at least a version of it.In post 2860, Naomi-Tan wrote:
Just the way they did it. like quoting my experience despite only having less than a handful of games and stuff..In post 2859, MortFeld wrote:
Are you saying that Nero does think town will actually lynch you tomorrow if Nero is lynched and flips town? I don't get what this post is responding to.In post 2858, Naomi-Tan wrote: well he did put a bit of shade my way heavily focusing on me getting the prod times wrong. also saying things like; shouldn't a player from a long time ago know this. Which kinda reads to me like he thought that he could turn the entire town on my Position given my Activity.
And why do you characterize this as shade? It seems valid to me. 'Trying to turn town against __' is also a way of framing 'trying to convince town that __ is scum,' which is something both town and scum do.
I'm not saying they think green. I'm saying they think red looking to flip tables on me seems more red than green.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Waiting.In post 2815, Nero Cain wrote:I'll get to the specifics of your case either later ronight or in the morning-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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-Premise: Naomi's push of you is scum motivated.In post 2866, Nero Cain wrote: Like other than RK I'm the path of least resistance today so why would it be impossible for scum you to push me today?
-Either your flipping town will result in Naomi's being lynched tomorrow, since she seems to be tunneled on you, or it will not result in her being lynched tomorrow.
-You are trying to convince town to lynch Naomi today amidst some resistance.
-You would not do this if you believed that Naomi will be lynched tomorrow as a result of her tunneling.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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EBWOP. Yes, it is possible for town!Nero to believe that Naomi will not die tomorrow if Nero flips town despite her being the most adamant proponent of a Nero lynch. But this means that Nero acknowledges that people have reasons to townread Naomi. Perhaps this would be a place to start convincing people? I have yet to see a real Naomi case from Nero.In post 2868, MortFeld wrote:
-Premise: Naomi's push of you is scum motivated.In post 2866, Nero Cain wrote: Like other than RK I'm the path of least resistance today so why would it be impossible for scum you to push me today?
-Either your flipping town will result in Naomi's being lynched tomorrow, since she seems to be tunneled on you, or it will not result in her being lynched tomorrow.
-You are trying to convince town to lynch Naomi today amidst some resistance.
-You would not do this if you believed that Naomi will be lynched tomorrow as a result of her tunneling.
-Therefore, you believe that Naomi will not be lynched tomorrow.
-One reason for this is that you are scum and know that your flip ends the game.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Probably Nero, if not Nero then RK. Very long ball on Naomi.In post 2872, rb wrote:mort who are we voting today?-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Yeah I agree with this. This is definitely the weak point in that argument, which basically only stands now because you lack a case on Naomi. Although I will say that if you and RK die and flip town going into tomorrow Naomi is probably next.In post 2870, Nero Cain wrote:Did you play chat mafia before coming here Mort?
I've been in plenty of games where scum pushes town and town doesn't lynch scum/who pushed town the next day so its no guarantee but there's a good chance that she'd be copp'd/docced.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Bleh. Who is your vote then?In post 2876, ArcAngel9 wrote:
I don't think Nero is scum. I can confirm it tomorrow. I can jail keep him tonight.In post 2873, MortFeld wrote:
Probably Nero, if not Nero then RK. Very long ball on Naomi.In post 2872, rb wrote:mort who are we voting today?-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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I'm pretty sure asking you who you want to lynch is trying to get your input ∴ listening.In post 2885, ArcAngel9 wrote:I am not voting NERO. Period.
If guys are lynching Nero then I am not listening to anyone either. Its vice versa. I am done with noob arguments with the VI's. If you want to team work, I am game for it but this isn't team work. Nobody events wants to listen to me.
I'm very game for teamwork. A couple questions:
1) Again, who is your preferred lynch, and a backup? You said
Is this still where you stand? And if not RK, then who if your second choice?In post 2778, ArcAngel9 wrote:I am not around for 24 hours. I am okay lynching RK. Go ahead.
2) Can you explain your Nero townread in a way that others can understand? So far it amounts to "he's playing like he does as town" which, while I completely understand how it informs your townread, you cannot possibly expect to cause anyone else to townread him.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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I agree that your recent arguments with Naomi were unnecessary. What do you think about my case on Nero? Answers not accepted: the case is bad because he is town.In post 2885, ArcAngel9 wrote:I am not voting NERO. Period.
I am done with noob arguments with the VI's.-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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In post 2905, keyenpeydee wrote:MOD NOTES:If someone has been hammered for the next few hours, Expect the flip to be delayed because it's night here and I need to sleep. Feel free to discuss more when y'all are waiting.
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Forgot Chaos can't do this. Eh, it's not really a big deal. The whole issue with Chaos living to LYLO doesn't exist anymore with an extra night.In post 2937, MortFeld wrote:Hm. What does everyone think about no-lynch today and letting Chaos investigate Nero? I want to be sure.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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This is not guaranteed true, as I spent like 20 posts discussing Day 3. There is a chance Nero is town which would give us even numbers, no good.In post 2939, Naomi-Tan wrote:Yeah lynch the jailed target and win.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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We only need to cop Nero.In post 2941, Naomi-Tan wrote:U_U We jailed the obvious red and no kill happened.. are you gonna suggest we no lynch and jail nero indefinitely till we can cop everyone?Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Sorry, I feel like making sure we win.In post 2942, Shadow_step wrote:Bored.comPlayers I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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If Arc comes back and says she jailed Nero and then we lynch him, he flips town, and we kill someone who could have been a confirmed townie, I'm not gonna be happy.In post 2946, Shadow_step wrote:I know, which is why I'm waiting for Arc.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Oh, so we are. Not sure how I missed that. Yeah, lynch Nero once Arc confirms.In post 2948, Naomi-Tan wrote:To be fair as there was no NK we are on even numbers right now.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Wait, no. We're on even numbers, I didn't miss anything. If we lynch and Nero is town, scum kill tonight and we have 6.In post 2950, MortFeld wrote:
Oh, so we are. Not sure how I missed that. Yeah, lynch Nero once Arc confirms.In post 2948, Naomi-Tan wrote:To be fair as there was no NK we are on even numbers right now.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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This isn't true if Arc's jail target was Nero.In post 2955, Shadow_step wrote:Its impossible for us to lose.
Even if NC is town. Arc announces her jail target. If a kill happens that person she targeted is clear. So that's 4 clear townies if any of the other cleared townies are killed. That 4 cleared townies and 2 non cleared. We have 2 lynches. Auto win.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Can we please jail Nero for a couple more nights and no lynch? We have literally no incentive not to.In post 2958, Nero Cain wrote:hehe. I was town. Lynch the fuck out of Naomi tomorrow.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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Except that Shadow is bored.In post 2959, MortFeld wrote:We have literally no incentive not to.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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I'm not confirmed town.In post 2962, Naomi-Tan wrote:You know what we should do... lets all quote our role pm's bar RB and Mort.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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Chaos copped me, yes. Chaos can still be scum, though this would have required a serious gambit not worth considering IMO until LYLO.
Continuing to jail Nero actually has a double purpose. Once Chaos cops everyone he either has to return a guilty result or we know he's scum. Once we lynch the guilty, if they flip town we know Chaos is scum.
We have literally. No. Incentive. Not to no lynch today. Stop being stubborn people and win the game optimally.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Would you rather play poorly? I don't understand this... what's the motivation to get this game over with if there are still fringe cases where we lose?In post 2970, Naomi-Tan wrote:
yeah but that'll take forever! given the two day down time inbetween.. going for one more cop is another week worth of waiting... and that kinda sucks..In post 2969, MortFeld wrote:Chaos copped me, yes. Chaos can still be scum, though this would have required a serious gambit not worth considering IMO until LYLO.
Continuing to jail Nero actually has a double purpose. Once Chaos cops everyone he either has to return a guilty result or we know he's scum. Once we lynch the guilty, if they flip town we know Chaos is scum.
We have literally. No. Incentive. Not to no lynch today. Stop being stubborn people and win the game optimally.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Key already answered this iirc, said that this has never happened and Key isn't sure.In post 2971, ChaosOmega wrote:Mod, will the game end in a draw after a certain number of days & nights without a lynch/kill?Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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Looking forward to seeing the result. If it's Nero we likely win the game with no-lynch today.In post 2977, ArcAngel9 wrote:In post 2947, MortFeld wrote:
If Arc comes back and says she jailed Nero and then we lynch him, he flips town, and we kill someone who could have been a confirmed townie, I'm not gonna be happy.In post 2946, Shadow_step wrote:I know, which is why I'm waiting for Arc.
Lol. Now you're thinking like me..
Good. So who did i target last night. Let me re-check that.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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Today and tomorrow.In post 2978, MortFeld wrote:Looking forward to seeing the result. If it's Nero we likely win the game with no-lynch today.Players I admire: Thor665, Lapsa, RC-
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MortFeld Mafia Scum
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