Open 44 - Twofold Mafia: GAME OVER! before 506

[pwayne66]

Hello. I will do a read through and post my thoughts as quickly as possible.

[pwayne66]

Allright here goes an admittedly rushed scumdar:

Frostypants- This guy makes my scum pile. Jdodges attempts to distract the panzerwagon two times. He apparently knows panzer's alignment and believes that that scum are on his wagon (#356). FP does the same thing in (#430). I want to know what made him think that Panzer wasn't scum with a wagon full of townies (this happened before panzer's claim remember)

Sikario8- Sikario comes in on a bad not in my book. Sorry. CA already left Panz in a rough spot. Panz seems to admit that he was pushing for a lynch of somebody he knew to be a townie (#370). Calls for a claim then doesn't call for it. Goes agro-defensive and claims that there is no logic behind his wagon. Post 370 was terrible and very WIFOMy. This guy is dead barring a Doc claim. Its funny that is exactly what he did. Distorts the position against him and never really defends himself, just threatens to call his detractors idiots. Scum pile here.

Tylerj- Pinged my scumdar a couple of times. His wagon seems really to be his own doing. I'm thinking town though. I think scum would have rested easy with Panzer defending him instead of going after his defender.

Dasquian- Tough read on this guy. Seems genuine so I will have to stick with town for the time being.

groinhammer- I got fairly strong pro-town reads here.

aioqwe- Sorry, but I failed to get too good of read here.

Rishi- Pinged my scumdar early, thanks to all sorts of drama, has managed to fly under the radar. In desperate need of some pressure. So here goes: ChronX is the current bandwagon of choice. Why are you on it?

Max- Who's this guy again?

ChronX- His request for a claim was weird. Too bold for a role fishing imo, but noted. sitting on fences here.

shaft.ed- Again, fence sitting here. I have no problem with his play style as some people has said they are. Guys like this are needed to stir stuff up. I'm not sure I understand the Chronx push though. It seems that the only reason you suspect him is his call for a claim. This isn't a bad reason, but does seem too weak to be voting for after 20 pages. You zero in on him for his vote against Das early on. "I put it on ChronX to help move out of random as much as he chose Dasquian." Currently on Ckillor ... a pretty safe place to park a vote...

ckillor - Lurky Lurkenstein. I hate "lynch all lurkers" but I also hate giving them a pass either. If you are in need of subject matter: Why do you think ChronX is scum?

Not much, so apologies. Hopefully enough to get the discussion going though... I will be doing a reread over the next couple of days.

[pwayne66]

As I've noted his claim didn't come until his wagon was down to L-3 so your point is rather exaggerated. And to say he's dead barring a Doc claim is very off. He's dead because of the Doc claim. Mafia are not letting a claimed Doc survive the night, you've got to be kidding me. Doc is by far the worst claim for longevity in this game outside of Mafia Goon.

I don't want to quibble, and I am a relatively new player here. I think that doc is a good claim for a scum that is about to be lynched. Either:
A) everybody backs off.
B) the real doc counter claims and the town kills scum (just like they intended anyway) but get the added bonus of taking the doc out with a nk. This wouldn't work if he claimed cop as the doc could protect the real cop. The doc can't protect himself.

As far as his being at l-3, I took another look and you are right. I thought that he was L-2. I'm not sure how to interput this... either way, a dismal play on his part. I still don't know if I buy the claim.

Also, I wasn't suggesting that you were sitting on fences, but that I was with you.

I'm curious why that question is only directed at me.

I asked ckillor also.

[pwayne66]

Doc claim untruthful = player claiming is Mafia = Other Mafia NK said player

Good point. But you forgot this:

doc claim untruthful/counterclaim = player claiming is mafia, player counter claiming is doc. Mafia lynch/dr nked.

Rishi brought up that there has been no counter claim. Good, and there shouldn't be. I have no intention of voting to lynch panzer (or his replacement, yet) I'm just saying that If I were a betting man, I would take the long odds on his claim being bogus. Right now, that is not the best play, since I think that we are likely to know his role tomorrow morning either way. Besides, I'd like to hear from his replacement.

[pwayne66]

Again, I don't know that we ought to be encouraging a counter claim. All we manage to do is kill the doc. I think sikario is dead either way tonight, if he is the doc or if he is scum. Rishi brings up a good point about about the two mafia's assuming that other handled the dirty deed. I don't think they will make the same mistake night two, if they do.

[pwayne66]

^^^this make some more sense to me now. I will defiantly adjust my scumdar as a result. I would like to hear lordy's take though before I get too serious. The problem is, he can't explain Chron's actions.

[pwayne66]

...not ssf, he makes less sense than ever... I meant ssf's post.

[pwayne66]

dammit!! I meant shaft's post!

[pwayne66]

I think he is actually mocking me. That is fine... I deserve it.

[pwayne66]

Welcome Tobiassan!

[pwayne66]

Why does everyone pay attention to Sikario's request for vote justification when I'm the closest to the lynch, yet no one want to tell me the reason why?

Who's everybody? You have three votes. If you have specific questions for the guys on your wagon, try asking a specific question to them. If you are really rereading the thread though, I suspect that you will find a rather lengthy discussion about why people are voting for you, then Chronx only a few pages back.

[pwayne66]

Just from the last 4 pages:

ChronX- His request for a claim was weird. Too bold for a role fishing imo, but noted. sitting on fences here.

I felt my ChronX vote was much more explained than what you gave me credit for. There was more to what ChronX did than make a call for a claim. And in regards to the ckillor vote, all of my suspects had been replaced. I don't think maintaining a vote on a replacement would be fruitful, as in all of my past experiences the replacements just say "yeah that guy was scummy, wonder why he did that?"

But, I think the case against ChronX (now lordy) has already been elaborated. He was sitting on the fence, accusing people who have already been accused by others. He used FoS's instead of votes many times. And he antagonized people. The last one is not necessarily a scumtell, but it's not helpful either.

most recently i find chronX scummy because of some of his crap logic jdodge and panzer may both be ass hats but i disagree with his comment about no concern for the game and think he is just trying to find an opening to releive pressure on himself.

Still, I have yet to see why everyone is jumping on Chronx. I'll have to look it up, but so far I have yet to see a scumtell out of him. The only thing that got my attention was CA's defending against him.

Most people are on him because of his fishy play when he asked for a claim and putting pressure on and relieving pressure contradictory to what he stated he wanted to do in his posts.

I still don't find ChronX scummy

I made my case for ChronX a while back here it is again to refresh:
shaft.ed wrote:
ChronX, I realize my play was unexplained. I aught to have time to get some more content behind it.

Your request for a claim came off as very scummy to me. I really don't see the reasons behind the Tyler bandwagon as being well founded. Thus, I felt you were trying to exploit the flimsy wagon by getting a roleclaim out of it. To boot I felt your excuse for asking for the claim was quite unwarranted. He was at L-2 with very little discussion going on. Furthermore, you moving your vote to him in order to keep the pressure on invalidates your reasoning for requesting the claim.
ChronX wrote:
The wagon on you isn't going away and there are a couple of players not voting whose actions, in this game and meta-wise, are not entirely predictable.

Clearly you are saying you are worried about someone else moving their vote to TylerJ and lynching him before he can claim. Now that you have moved your vote to him, it is clear that you are only interested in his claim, and not worried about someone coming in and rashly lynching a powerrole before they get a chance to claim. The wagon definitely isn't going away if you add your vote to it. Your reasoning is even further conflicting when you later state:
ChronX wrote:
My suspect list continues to be Max and GH

If Max and GH are still your top suspects, and you're worried about someone(s) coming along and suddenly lynching an unclaimed player on a -2 bandwagon, why are you maintaining that player at -2 and moving your vote off of one of your top suspects?

shaft.ed wrote:
What really jumped out at me was when ChronX argued that he is worried that a pair of unknowns could swing in and lynch Tyler before the town even gets a chance to hear a roleclaim. First of all, the people voting for him have done piss poor jobs of making their case against him. Anyone that would come along and add a lynching vote to this bandwagon would likely be in a poor situation should Tyler come up town. Secondly, only Dasq and Rishi had even talked about Tyler's scumminess in the last page and a half. Although no votes have moved, it was effectively not a topic of discussion at the time aside from Rishi's post just before you. And lastly you state that the non-voters are too unpredictable for you. These players are myself, ckillor, aioqwe and Max.

I am currently playing in another game with you so you should be familiar with my playstyle. I have not moved my vote around all willy nilly there nor here, so I know you aren't talking about me in this instance. I haven't meta'd or played with the other players, but ckillor hasn't placed a vote since the random phase. Your lucky to even get content from him and you seriously think he'd just jump in and hammer a L-2 player when the majority of the town find him scummy? Then you have aoiqwe, who also hasn't placed a vote since the random phase. How are you reasonably worried that either of these two players are going to jump and and finish off a bandwagon before a claim? Finally you have Max. I haven't meta'd Max, but judging from his join date it's likely many of you have played with him. Someone else could probably help me out here if it is or isn't likely to expect Max to hammer in this situation. But Max has also not moved his vote since the random phase. And I'd also repeat many players have chimed in stating they find Max scummy. I very much doubt he'd hammer against the town's wishes with such a weak D1 performance.

What this last longwinded paragraph boils down to is that your fear was that two of the Max, ckillor, aioqwe, me quartet might come in and hammer Tyler before the town got a chance to hear his claim. That's a junk argument as three of those players haven't even laid down a vote since the random phase.

Okay, I forgot about the fact that Chronx did the role pushing thing. Now that clears up things a bit.

[pwayne66]

Happy Birthday Shaft.

[pwayne66]

...oh goody...

[pwayne66]

@pwayne: anything else you want to add?

Sure. Just some new perspectives:

Jdodge- Coupled with my previous review, dislikes giving reasons (who doesn't?), believes that any of Me, Das, Rishi, Tobiassen, ckillor,shaft.ed, and/or groinhammer are scum. This might explain his aversion to expressing his reasons for feeling so. lordy (who he has voted for), Sika, and aioqwe are not scum. I don't know how I could not get a scummy vibe from this guy.

Sikario8- Whether he is doc or not, sikario is not the lynch today.

Tylerj- Needs to post more.

[pwayne66]

Do you think Tobiassen is scum?

[pwayne66]

Sounds like the classic too townie fallacy. Why aren't more people voting for Tobiassen?

Fallacies aren't always scumtells. tobi didn't vote for Jdodge only said that he thought he was a good player and required extra watchin'.

I take it that you think that tobi is more likely very very bad scum than very bad and disinterested newbie. Is this accurate?

[pwayne66]

... on the other hand... I have advocated lynching people just b/c they are obnoxious...

[pwayne66]

No, I imagine that he would say that you are worthless. Why not prove him wrong?

[pwayne66]

Smart mafia theory dictates that the doc SHOULD NOT counterclaim until lylo.

Agreed.

Rishi becomes all sorts of aggressive over a post by Korlash that suggests nothing new (except the name spelling). The idea that the panzclaim was false, and the doc shouldn't counter claim have all been mentioned by other players before Korlash. Votes Korlash and seems to suggest he was just tesing reactions, and then says it was an overreaction on his part.

Followed by an OMGUS vote from Korlash. Doesn't think Lordy or Tob are good lynch canidates.

@Korlash- Why do you think that Lordy and Tob are bad lynch canidates?

Korlash and Rishi mend fences

Das comes to the obvious conclusion that Korlash and Rishi are scum together, drops his safe vote on Tobi in exchange for a safe vote on Korlash.

Lots of interesting happenings.

[pwayne66]

Why? Because I do not think they are scum... Do I need a better reason then that?

It would be a good idea. If either Lordy or Tobi turn up scum and somebody sez:

"Korlash defended that scum but didn't have a reason to! He must be scum!"

...there will be a lot of dittoheads following. If you are town, this is a bad thing. If you are scum, this is a bad thing (unless of course, you know that they are not scum).

[pwayne66]

That is right, I forgot about the deadline... that is tomorrow. We need a decision today so as not to be flopping around tomorrow and no lynching.

[pwayne66]

By my count, that is the required 4 votes on lordy to get the deadline lynch (sikario, aioqwe, TylerJ, and Rishi)

[pwayne66]

I could care less what people say about me. I defend anyone who is close to being lynched for a gay and/or dumb and/or non-existant reason. In this case I can probably find all three...

People can use the same case you are suggesting against anyone who LYNCHES a town. So, while you may be trying to look like some kind of know-it-all player. You seem to be stating the obvious. And it will not vex me.

Sorry if it seems as though I am trying to act like a know it all player. That is not my intention. Do you feel that lordy is about to be lynched for a dumb reason?

I suppose my point is this: if you think that the town is about to make a mistake, the helpful thing would be to try to convince us not to. If it is just a gut reaction, then it will be noted, but if you have a logic based theory about Lordy's innocence, now is the time to share it.

[pwayne66]

I'm not big on ChronX myself, but this idea that nobody has really stated why they are voting/slash ignored Lordy's request to do so is not accurate:

These are direct responces from me:

Who's everybody? You have three votes. If you have specific questions for the guys on your wagon, try asking a specific question to them. If you are really rereading the thread though, I suspect that you will find a rather lengthy discussion about why people are voting for you, then Chronx only a few pages back.

and immediatley following:

Just from the last 4 pages:

pwayne wrote:
ChronX- His request for a claim was weird. Too bold for a role fishing imo, but noted. sitting on fences here.


shaft wrote:
I felt my ChronX vote was much more explained than what you gave me credit for. There was more to what ChronX did than make a call for a claim. And in regards to the ckillor vote, all of my suspects had been replaced. I don't think maintaining a vote on a replacement would be fruitful, as in all of my past experiences the replacements just say "yeah that guy was scummy, wonder why he did that?"


rishi wrote:
But, I think the case against ChronX (now lordy) has already been elaborated. He was sitting on the fence, accusing people who have already been accused by others. He used FoS's instead of votes many times. And he antagonized people. The last one is not necessarily a scumtell, but it's not helpful either.


ckillor wrote:
most recently i find chronX scummy because of some of his crap logic jdodge and panzer may both be ass hats but i disagree with his comment about no concern for the game and think he is just trying to find an opening to releive pressure on himself.


tylerj wrote:
Still, I have yet to see why everyone is jumping on Chronx. I'll have to look it up, but so far I have yet to see a scumtell out of him. The only thing that got my attention was CA's defending against him.


aioqwe wrote:
Most people are on him because of his fishy play when he asked for a claim and putting pressure on and relieving pressure contradictory to what he stated he wanted to do in his posts.


dasquian wrote:
I still don't find ChronX scummy


shaft wrote:
I made my case for ChronX a while back here it is again to refresh:
shaft.ed wrote:
ChronX, I realize my play was unexplained. I aught to have time to get some more content behind it.

Your request for a claim came off as very scummy to me. I really don't see the reasons behind the Tyler bandwagon as being well founded. Thus, I felt you were trying to exploit the flimsy wagon by getting a roleclaim out of it. To boot I felt your excuse for asking for the claim was quite unwarranted. He was at L-2 with very little discussion going on. Furthermore, you moving your vote to him in order to keep the pressure on invalidates your reasoning for requesting the claim.
ChronX wrote:
The wagon on you isn't going away and there are a couple of players not voting whose actions, in this game and meta-wise, are not entirely predictable.

Clearly you are saying you are worried about someone else moving their vote to TylerJ and lynching him before he can claim. Now that you have moved your vote to him, it is clear that you are only interested in his claim, and not worried about someone coming in and rashly lynching a powerrole before they get a chance to claim. The wagon definitely isn't going away if you add your vote to it. Your reasoning is even further conflicting when you later state:
ChronX wrote:
My suspect list continues to be Max and GH

If Max and GH are still your top suspects, and you're worried about someone(s) coming along and suddenly lynching an unclaimed player on a -2 bandwagon, why are you maintaining that player at -2 and moving your vote off of one of your top suspects?

shaft.ed wrote:
What really jumped out at me was when ChronX argued that he is worried that a pair of unknowns could swing in and lynch Tyler before the town even gets a chance to hear a roleclaim. First of all, the people voting for him have done piss poor jobs of making their case against him. Anyone that would come along and add a lynching vote to this bandwagon would likely be in a poor situation should Tyler come up town. Secondly, only Dasq and Rishi had even talked about Tyler's scumminess in the last page and a half. Although no votes have moved, it was effectively not a topic of discussion at the time aside from Rishi's post just before you. And lastly you state that the non-voters are too unpredictable for you. These players are myself, ckillor, aioqwe and Max.

I am currently playing in another game with you so you should be familiar with my playstyle. I have not moved my vote around all willy nilly there nor here, so I know you aren't talking about me in this instance. I haven't meta'd or played with the other players, but ckillor hasn't placed a vote since the random phase. Your lucky to even get content from him and you seriously think he'd just jump in and hammer a L-2 player when the majority of the town find him scummy? Then you have aoiqwe, who also hasn't placed a vote since the random phase. How are you reasonably worried that either of these two players are going to jump and and finish off a bandwagon before a claim? Finally you have Max. I haven't meta'd Max, but judging from his join date it's likely many of you have played with him. Someone else could probably help me out here if it is or isn't likely to expect Max to hammer in this situation. But Max has also not moved his vote since the random phase. And I'd also repeat many players have chimed in stating they find Max scummy. I very much doubt he'd hammer against the town's wishes with such a weak D1 performance.

What this last longwinded paragraph boils down to is that your fear was that two of the Max, ckillor, aioqwe, me quartet might come in and hammer Tyler before the town got a chance to hear his claim. That's a junk argument as three of those players haven't even laid down a vote since the random phase.


tyler wrote:
Okay, I forgot about the fact that Chronx did the role pushing thing. Now that clears up things a bit.

He was given the reasons from nearly ever player. I'm not sure what more could have been done to make people's feeling clear. What's more, the case seems to be this: rolefishing. At least three of those voting for him mentioned as a big reason. What do you think of this accusation?

[pwayne66]

Also @ pwayne: Is there a reason you never unvoted me after i replaced? Reasons would be nice as to why your vote is on me... Sorry i failed to mention it before.. as it is kinda a moot point right this second eh?

No. I don't think I ever voted for ckillor either. I'm still riding Theo's vote.

[pwayne66]

The fact he had to say it twice does mean something, along with the fact you just conveniently ignored what I said... If I liked to use FoS's i would give you one. Unfortunately now is not the time.. tomorrow my friend.. oh your comeuppance will come...

...yet the fact that Lordy ignored a pages of posted reason that people were voting for him so he could throw himself a pitty party over being ignored never caused you a moments consideration... interesting and inconsistent application of your scumtells...

What's more, what should I make of you ignoring my question about Chronx's rolefishing?

[pwayne66]

My point was: it wasn't as though nobody gave any reasons what so ever until post 553. There were pages and pages of posts from people about why they were voting Chronx. I thought the fact that Lordy wanted us to repeat them to save himself the trouble of reading what has already been discussed at length, was annoying. Despite this, I went back, and quoted everything on the last 4 pages.

I don't think the fact that people ignored his request was telling at all. As I alluded in the post prior to the "long quote post", everybody was on record. If he had a specific question he should ask. He never did. I don't follow why I should feel sympathy for him.

As far as me making this into an attack, I fail to see your point. I've staged no attack. I stated that I thought it was odd that you characterized Lordy as a victim. I misread your post, and you threatened to FOS me for it. As far as me missing you addressing the case on Lordy being rolefishing:

More to the point, I feel the entire case on Lordy boils down to "Lets lynch him cause of the deadline!" I'm sorry... I do not see this as being a good reason to randomly lynch someone. Sorry.

Now I am too lazy to go back through the thread even more while I was not here, so if this is not an accurate case you all had on ChronX please let me know...

Now let me see...

Fence sitting: This is very hard to debate. On one hand, you have the way peopel think differently. To some fence sitting may imply this specific definition, while to others it may be a wide range of things. This has always seemed to me to be a bit of a personal problem people have with others, as "fence sitting" could be seen from any number of ways at most times. All in all I have no problem with a vote or two when someone brings up fence sitting, however... It is not necessarily something ONLY a scum would do. And thus, very weak lynch worthy material.

Accusing peopel who have already been accused by others: Seriously? ... What... Do you expect player A to accuse player B and no one to support that attack? I play by defending anyone I can. I take a players attack and break it down, no matter who they are attacking. it is how I play. I do this so that I can prevent a town death by a weak attack. At the same time I risk preventing a mafia death too. However I would rather save both a town and a mafia then to let a town die when they could easily have been saved...

While I may have missed the tidbit where you address it, these posts do seem to deliberately ignore and mis characterize the case against Chronx/lordy.

[pwayne66]

Do you believe the fact that shaft is not voting for Chronx invalidates his argument?

[pwayne66]

No...I do feel that having 5 people voting for someone, only one of who has any of his own ideas on the matter, and calling it a 'town consensus" (My own words.) for a deadline kill is a little.. um.. stupid.

True. This is why we must avoid a deadline at all costs. Voting for Lordy is a better option than the immenient "no lynch" that is just around the corner though.

I mean look at JD.. He voted for no reason at all. Come tomorrow you want him to get by on the excuse "Oh, Shaft.ed made a good case"? Hellz no.

What about Rishi? I more then took every single thing he said and threw it out. In fact, he has a lot of evidence to suggest bussing. (Yet another good reason TO lynch Lordy I think...)

What about Aioqwe? He more or less just used the "I agree with shaft.ed" Excuse I believe...

What about our so called fake doc? What has he contributed to this discussion? He tried to vote twice.. that is it.. nothing else at all...

All of these could have merit, and ought to be examined further. I will have to review them before I make a judgement. The fact is though, with the deadline hours away, there is no time. This information, coupled with Lordy's role information, might be significant.

And what about Lordy? A guy who doesn't put any effort into defending himself... What does that show you? I think it makes him most likely a simple vanilla towny. (Based on past experiences) He is not a true "Lurker" he just simply says nothing...

It has been my experience as well. This can get very WIFOMy though. I believe that Chronx has played the scummiest today. He may not be scum, but an effort beats a no-lynch.

I may not be able to stop this kill, and To be honest I really couldn't care less who it is. It's a damn deadline kill... the most worthless of all the lynches. I'm just trying to draw as much as I can out of it.

We are finally on the same page.

Now what about you Pwayne? Do you think the case against him is good enough? Why aren't you voting? Or are you looking for evidence to build a case around ME so you can validate your vote?

I think it is good enough for a deadline lynch. I'm milking this for all its worth. I have no desire for a lynch to occur before it is necessary. Possibly.

[pwayne66]

This will require a reread. Tobi's, reaction at daybreak is noted with interest. Siko's survival is noted as well.

[pwayne66]

Sad to see lordy lynched for no reason, but I think there's definitely scum on his wagon.

Really? Posting on the fly here but weren't you one of the biggest pushers? I know you didn't vote but it was your extensive case that fueled the fire. Do you think that there was a better deadline lynch that the town could have made?

[pwayne66]

true 'dat.

[pwayne66]

...then again, if Sikario is the doctor, you wouldn't blame him for not protecting Jdodge, would you?

[pwayne66]

But I doubt I would be the only one with connections to the deceased.

Korlash FOSed nearly everybody on the ChornX/Lordy wagon, Shaka, and myself. The fact that you seem to think that you will draw a significant amount of heat for your interactions with him seems interesting to me.

[pwayne66]

???!!!

[pwayne66]

No. I win the bet. You owe one quick check to your outbox and an even quicker look at the last message you sent to SSF.

[pwayne66]

I'm sorry, thanksgiving sucked the life out of me.

...in more ways than one... you're dead dude.

[pwayne66]

I understand that you may be (are) upset about me "not sending a nightchoice" but...

A)...being upset that the town doesn't have a doc is scummy!
B)...believing in telepathy is scummy!
C)...calling me out is scummy!
D)OTHER

^^^Which of these best complete your sentence and tells us why Rishi is suspicious to you?

[pwayne66]

Well, we are down 3 townies. That's 2 to 2 to 5, 3 of those 5 being power roles. The doc can only defend one of the claimed cops. On the other hand, without being able to compare notes, cops are generally useless. IE just because COP A clears you doesn't mean that you are clear. The cops don't know anybodies idenity unless they return a guilty verdict. For this reason, at lylo (or at least closer) with two cops, a claim might be a good idea so they can share their data.

Worst case scenerio for today in general, we lynch town and lose two at night. The brings us to 2-2-2. So at the very worst, we are not even at lylo. I think the odds of at least one scum dieing today/tonight are pretty high, so likely we go into tomorrow 1-2-3.

I like some facets of a claim, but I think it might be early.

[pwayne66]

Has anyone here ever not played with Korlash before?

I haven't, but that's a long and WIFOMy road.

[pwayne66]

Happy birthday Sikario.

@Pwayne: Every post you've submitted thus far, excluding some reactions, has been brimming with substance; however, you don't feel as if you know enough to vote?

This isn't the case.


I'm going back and forth on the claim. I would like to hear Dasq's take on it.

[pwayne66]

Working on updating my initial thoughts coming into the game but I am getting close to going home, I will post what I have and finish later:

Sikario8- CA already left Panz in a rough spot. Panz seems to admit that he was pushing for a lynch of somebody he knew to be a townie (#370). Calls for a claim then doesn't call for it. Goes agro-defensive and claims that there is no logic behind his wagon. Post 370 was terrible and very WIFOMy. This guy is dead barring a Doc claim. Its funny that is exactly what he did. Distorts the position against him and never really defends himself, just threatens to call his detractors idiots. ---

In addition, the whole, "...if this is the game where I am the doc, it was probaly random" thing sits bad with me. Add in the fact that he never get around to admitting that he never sent in a choice until he was prompted by shaft (#827) and he survived the night, Sikario's even deeper in the scum pile.

Tylerj- Pinged my scumdar a couple of times. His wagon seems really to be his own doing. I'm thinking town though. I think scum would have rested easy with Panzer defending him instead of going after his defender.---

Didn't notice that Tobiassen was wasn't contributing. This struck me as odd. Even odder considering:

yeah tob, post something of actual content I'm being persuaded more and more that you are scum and not just a newb, you don't even try.

and then later in the same post:

The little part about you being harmless tob isn't ture, even if you are innocent, you are a liability in the fact that you don't provide much content.

the rest later...

[pwayne66]

EBWOP: I don't know why it just occurred to me, but doc isn't a safe claim in this game. I'm sure that somebody else has mentioned it and I just missed it, but if this is the case, Sikario being alive today is a null tell.

[pwayne66]

Quick list, RL is kicking my ass...

MOST LIKELY SCUM on top
LEAST LIKELY SCUM on bottom


tylarj
sikario
tobiassen
shaft
----------------------------------
aioqwe
rishi
dasq
claus

As far as lynching the claimed doc goes (not that I think it is to that yet), isn't he just as likely to save scum as he is to save a townie?

[pwayne66]

I'm surprised you would make such a clearly anti-town statement.

Noted.

[pwayne66]

pwayne is it too much to ask why you find me suspicious?

You said that you didn't notice that Tobiassen was wasn't contributing. This struck me as odd. Even odder considering:

yeah tob, post something of actual content I'm being persuaded more and more that you are scum and not just a newb, you don't even try.

and then later in the same post:

The little part about you being harmless tob isn't ture, even if you are innocent, you are a liability in the fact that you don't provide much content.

I realize this can be accounted for by reasons other than scumminess. But this is where my head is at now.

[pwayne66]

town: me, pwayne, Tyler, Claus (simply by default)
scum: Dasq, aioqwe, Rishi, Tobi
^most towny to the left, most scummy to the right^

where does sikario fit in here?

[pwayne66]

So pwayne you have a scum list, are you comfortable with any of those players being lynched at the moment?

tylerj
sikario
tobiassen
shaft

I would be ok with a tyler or tobi lynch. I think they are the best bet.

[pwayne66]

@tobi

hmm, looks like Korlash pulled some dangerous strings to get himself night killed,

damn, i need to read from day 1,

What did you manage to find here?

[pwayne66]

...that's lynch -1. We can deal with the Tobi/Rishi scumpairing thing tomorrow. (its a moot point until Tobi turns up scum.) Want to claim Tobi?

[pwayne66]

@claus-

Why is aioqwe "surely scum". Am I missing a case on aioqwe?

[pwayne66]

bah... yadayadayada...

[pwayne66]

Good job shaft. This one leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I had a good idea that you were scum, but even if you hadn't killed me, I couldn't confirm it. My first game as a cop and I am guessing that I played entirely too "copy".
None the less, it was a fun game to play/watch. Good job ssf.