Mini 1794: Gunslingers Ahoy! {Game Over}

[KuroiXHF]

I'll review the best that I can, but I'll probably be in and fully ready to go by Monday.

[KuroiXHF]

(Up to 222)

How about 3 times?

VOTE: MURDERCAT bye

I already scum read this guy.

If you still pretend not to understand my case I'm going to deathtunnel you.

I've loved everything you've said until you said this.

I'm not pushing you yet either.

I'm so glad that Killer Instinct Mafia is over. So I'm not sure everyone knows this about BlackStar or gets the same feeling, So he's extremely scummy, but is probably town. Until I see more, I probably won't vote him. He's only slightly scummy on how he usually plays.

VOTE: BlackStar

Mostly gut right now.

See above, please.

He RVS voted though.

So what?

Here let me start off the new wagon

VOTE: BlackStar

Why aren't you lynched yet?

I love how nobody is even looking for town motivation in my posts

I have no pity for you. Focus on someone else. Ask questions. Find scum. Your posts reflect reactive motivation, not proactive motivation. That's why you get mislynched a lot.

Yeah well now blackstar is voting you and I think he's scummier than you. I only asked you because it seemed like maybe you picked up on it too.

I agree.

I pointed out clearly when and why it changed in 179

You're extremely combative, but I get a good town vibe from you.

More from me, and I'm hoping to be more in-depth. It's rushed because I'm rushed and wanted to get something down from me.

Quick Vibes:
Town: Murdercat, Accountant, Perhaps Blackstar
Scum: Dunnstral, Derek.
Everyone else, no vibes.

I'll have another post by Monday.

[KuroiXHF]

Stopping at Post 349. I had a little bit of time and it's still not in-depth since I have only enough time for this, but here we go.

I love how nobody is even looking for town motivation in my posts

It's YOUR job to make your town motivation clear. Town has an incentive to make themselves transparent.

I like this, but it gives me the vibe that this is coming from the outside-looking-in.

Blackstar, I noticed that despite quoting his initial argument against efiend, you haven't really given your thoughts on him. So thoughts?

Seems like another opportunist looking for validation from the town

Agreed.

So dunn and I are both scum Blackstar?

Nah, just you

VOTE: murdercat

I feel like the intention of this post is aimed more toward impact and not accuracy. It's like you're just trying to make a statement. Murdercat isn't scum.

Just caught up. Chilledtea is like not even trying to figure out the game.

I need to look back but it seems like he's just lurking. Either way, it is scummy.

[KuroiXHF]

Also, Mod. Zefired isn't in this game anymore!

[KuroiXHF]

I'm also not sure why you're saying I'm worried about something I think could happen.

Please don't insult my intelligence and/or downplay yours. You know I'm talking about the nonsense of me exiting the wagon cleanly nonsense you were saying that's you worrying about something that hasn't happend and you don't know if it would ever happen. You (and nobody else did either) didn't even bother to take the time to find out if my vote was serious or not.

As for me not giving stating I was suspicious of murdercat, I didn't fee like I had to because my vote was an indication that I did. You kind of don't have to explain the obvious. Sure I made a joke about wagons but I vote when I think people are scum or I want to pressure somebody I think could be scum. You know the only reason anyone should vote once RVS is over...

This looks to be like he's looking to try to defend a point. I don't like other players being so defensive.

Can we turn the arrogance dial down like three notches? I can feel it through my screen. Thanks.

No I can't

This isn't helping you.

Also I did touch on other people. I've interacted with at least 4 different people during my catchup

Making a small point appearing to be a huge point.

1. When my wagon lost momentum you were saying that you weren't sure if i was scum anymore. You even went as far as saying that you had a town lean on me. But then brawl voted me and the vote count came back so you felt like it was safe to jump on my wagon. That looks scummy to me
2. I wasn't trying to make anyone look bad. I thought it was weird that he got a wagon so quickly so I said so. It was entirely possible that somebody was going to lolhammer him and I have wanted to make sure that didn't happen. You guys were the ones who took this as an opportunity to try and make me look bad and act like I was defending murdercat
3. I'm not white knighting anyone. And if you truly think that cum would openly back up their partner and "white knight them", then you must be really new at this game. Not to mention the fact that right after I "white knighted" him he turned around and voted me.
4. You seem to think that building a case means making shit up and hoping people go along with it. That's not how this works. Everyone acted like there was no way I could be town so I made that post to show how ridiculous they were acting, there's no hidden agenda, there's no sneaky bs hidden there. What I said is what I meant.
5. OMGUS is a normal reaction and you're being scummy for acting like it isn't
6. He gave a weak reason to jump on my wagon. Kind of like your "case" right here.
7. Yeah. Go big him instead of a member of the town.
8. Why even talk about if if you can't make up... sorry, "think of" any scum motivation for it?

I just wanted to say that even though I've only played one game with Blackstar, this heavily goes against his meta. I'm not so sure he's town, now. I'm still fairly sure, but not with as much certainty.

No they aren't the same thing.

Thanks for admitting you are scum

I'm sorry. I

really

don't like this.

I still support BlackStar wagon but seeing as I'm not actually voting him right now. VOTE: Derek12. I'm willing to move back to BlackStar after we've seen more people chime in, but I think this is another solid wagon.

...No. If you really support someone, you don't vote someone else because there's another person out there who could also be a viable lynch. I'm glad you didn't vote Blackstar but if you think someone is scum, vote them.

I'm off for now. Weekends tend to be busy for me but I'll still be checking in

And I'm stopping here at Post 699.. At this point, I'm starting to lose focus. I should be up by tomorrow.

[KuroiXHF]

1. Again. I am in this game. Not zefried
2. How long until deadline?
3. I noticed people have comments for me. I'll get to it as I go through the catch up. As I said before, I should be caught up by today.

[KuroiXHF]

@Chumba:

I can't work with you if you're going to adopt such an obstinate, close minded, arrogant attitude.

Good, because I think you are scum so I have no interest working with you.

This post is beginning to make me feel that this isn't scum, but just a townie who is extremely difficult to work with.

vote murder

dont really want to change but there's no chance anyone is going to join a brawl wagon which completely boggles my brain. When people are ready to take this game seriously please lmk.

This is terrible, especially evident by his post back to Blackstar later on. He's difficult to work with, extremely rude, throwing posts everywhere... The only reason I'm not voting him now is because I haven't finished my catch up.

I think BlackStar isn't consistent about his reads and pushes because he doesn't care who dies as long as it's not him.

I agree, but I'd lessen the indication of his alignment. Blackstar is naturally scummy and I don't find most of his scummy posts to be an indication of his alignment.

I'm currently at post 900. I expect to be caught up later today.

[KuroiXHF]

RachMarie do you know why I voted you?

@Dunn,

No clue you did not give much detail.

At first, I was going to say that I scum read RachMarie here, but in my experience, I find that scum are more likely to be pretty willing to defend themselves and be on it when someone scum reads or votes someone else. This genuinely comes across as townie behavior.

@Dunnstral:

Sell me on Rach

Alright alright

875 felt like a weird post - seems like she goes beyond what's necessary to try and explain her town read on IAI (and I still think it's weird after seeing that but the read itself isn't why I'm voting her)

The way she's "pushing" BlackStar is by saying we shouldn't lynch inactives - lol? Doesn't actually get direct with Blackstar

We shouldn't lynch inactives. We should let them be replaced so we can find scum, not just lynch people who post the least...

@MURDERCAT:

Do you have any completed scumgames on site? I kinda want to look through them.

VOTE: MURDERCAT

Forgot this.

Yeah. You're right. Murdercat should have be online at 5 AM in the morning and posted within nine minutes. Screw him, right?

Meta is not a defense.

Meta is not an attack.

Meta is the equivalent of last year's newspaper.

I disagree. Meta can be useful. I see meta as a tool. A screw driver won't work if you pound on it like a hammer. You have to use meta right if you need it to help you. I've found scum before by that tool.

Solid town? Please explain

Finally, a post that I can behind with Chumba.

Tired, also a little tipsy. Will catch up in the morning, but posting now to tell you all I'm not dead.

The typical "town" envisioned in Town vs Mafia is of a puritan town. The puritans aren't allowed to drink alcohol. However, the mafia envisioned are of a 1920s mafioso group, which drink alcohol frequently.
Boom. Scum caught.

I don't see anything off about RachMarie. Make a case if you want to get me on board, etc.

Accountant's Reads List

Reads are expressed in terms of probability of flipping mafia, with 100% being confirmed scum and 0% being confirmed town. Given a 13 player setup and 2-3 possible scum(to maintain balance), I've set the base rate for being scum as [(2.5/13)*100], rounded down, or 19%. Thus, a read of 19% is perfectly null.

KickAssAndGiggle - 12%
MURDERCAT - 60%
KuroiXHF - 16%
Chumba - 20%
Accountant - 0%
chilledtea - 35%
BlackStar - 83%
RachMarie - 15%
I Am Innocent - 19%
Dunnstral - 14%
Derek12 - 15%
Pants98 - 19%
TehBrawlGuy - 10%

As you can see, my strongest townread is TehBrawlGuy, and my top scumreads are BlackStar and MURDERCAT by a fairly large margin(this is why I've been tunnelling on them). Most of the replacement players have fallen into a loose cluster just below null, based on the quality of their catchups, reads and posts. The reason for the low deviation is due to the fact that the old occupiers of that slot lurked very hard and were therefore null.

I'd be happy to go into more detail on any of my reads if required.

This is the strangest reads list I've ever seen...

I just wanted to say that even though I've only played one game with Blackstar, this heavily goes against his meta. I'm not so sure he's town, now. I'm still fairly sure, but not with as much certainty.

Can you go more in depth here?

I can surely give you the link to the game in question.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=66274
That post was not out of something from my experience of Blackstar's town game.

I'm sorry but fact =/= arrogance imo.

And tbh I don't really give a rats ass what you are sick of.

TOWN DOES NOT LIE
TOWN DOES NOT INTENTIONALLY MISREP A PLAYERS POSTS
TOWN DOES NOT MANIPULATE

I've lied and manipulated as town before, and town has benefited from that.

This is terrible, especially evident by his post back to Blackstar later on. He's difficult to work with, extremely rude, throwing posts everywhere... The only reason I'm not voting him now is because I haven't finished my catch up.

In reality I'm trying to rally people to lynch scum and people are refusing to follow me for some unknown reason. (I'm sorry but a person's personality should not matter when the stuff they are saying is the truth. Ignoring a person because you dislike them is wrong and that's what I feel people are doing). They try to say the lies brawl has said aren't really lies (which isn't true)!and they ignore where he admits to manipulating posts which is basically a scum claim in my book. (Town don't have to intentionally manipulate people posts. Scum does)

If people are going to keep ignoring obv scum, I'm going to keep being difficult and in the end town is going to suffer.

Look. I'm town and your rude, abrasive and unhelpful posts are already making me suffer.

I'm caught up! Please let me know if I've accidentally skipped something and please ask me questions if you have any. I'll have a read list soon.

[KuroiXHF]

You don't want to play with me because you disagree with me.

Forget this. I'm not even sure you're scum anymore. I think you're just being childish.

[KuroiXHF]

You don't want to play with me because you disagree with me.

Forget this. I'm not even sure you're scum anymore. I think you're just being childish.

Not because I disagree with you. You think doing things that should only be done by scum is a good idea. Town shouldn't have to lie ever and they damn sure shouldn't have to intentionally manipulate people's posts.

We do disagree. You're making categorical blanket statements and I'm not. Things aren't always black and white. Sometimes, it's OK to do these things. I'm OK if you disagree with me, but I'm not OK if you're complaining and threatening us, saying you'll never play with us again or forcing the game to suffer.

Let's just find scum.

[KuroiXHF]

@kuroi Did you finish your reads list?

I'm responding to other games before I get back here and do that.
But it will be tonight.

[KuroiXHF]

Strong Town: KickassAndGiggle, TehBrawlGuy
Lean Town: Murdercat, Blackstar, Rachmarie, Accountant
Null/Unsorted: I Am Innocent, Pants98
Lean Scum: Chumba, Chilledtea
Strong Scum: Dunnstral, Derek12

VOTE: Derek12

In my quick review, Chumba seems to be more pissed off townie but I'm not prepared to pull him out of scum territory. Derek12 should die.

[KuroiXHF]

@Dunnstral:

Sell me on Rach

Alright alright

875 felt like a weird post - seems like she goes beyond what's necessary to try and explain her town read on IAI (and I still think it's weird after seeing that but the read itself isn't why I'm voting her)

The way she's "pushing" BlackStar is by saying we shouldn't lynch inactives - lol? Doesn't actually get direct with Blackstar

We shouldn't lynch inactives. We should let them be replaced so we can find scum, not just lynch people who post the least...

I never said I wanted to lynch inactives?

That's certainly the impression I got from what I've read.

Strong Town: KickassAndGiggle, TehBrawlGuy
Lean Town: Murdercat, Blackstar, Rachmarie, Accountant
Null/Unsorted: I Am Innocent, Pants98
Lean Scum: Chumba, Chilledtea
Strong Scum: Dunnstral, Derek12

VOTE: Derek12

In my quick review, Chumba seems to be more pissed off townie but I'm not prepared to pull him out of scum territory. Derek12 should die.

Not to omgus but am I missing somethign here? How did Derek12 and I end up as Strong Scum here...?

Actually somethings off about this whole reads list to me

I'm not sure what you're looking for. If you want me to go through your complete ISO in more detail, I will, but not today. I'm tired and apparently a lot happened this weekend. I've never liked anything you wrote this game, but more so Derek.

Why is KAAG at the top?

Because I've liked everything he said. All of it. I think he's probably the towniest of them all.

[KuroiXHF]

Did my posts not explain it all?

[KuroiXHF]

BTW, I don't think my earlier question was asked. When's deadline?

[KuroiXHF]

Ok I can see mc

but why do you think accountant is prob scum? I think she (I think she is a she no gender is listed), is town, in fact she is one of my strongest town reads.

It can take a while to get into the swing of things here in this site, hang in there and dont make a decision on the site just based on one game.

yo rach

get yo butt in here plz ty

I have played at least 1 game with accountant, kuroi and blackstar I think, altho I can't remember what game it was. I was accountant's IC in his newbie game, kuroi was wis's scum partner in a game that town lost (wld you believe my hydra got lynched as town lol) and I will see if I can remember what game I was in with blackstar.

@ blackstar

do you remember the game? I know I have seen your name before I think it might have been micros.

I will iso accountant and kag next but right now I wanna see what shakes out

That was Pokemon Episode 2 mafia - the last completed game I have as scum two months ago.

[KuroiXHF]

That was Pokemon Episode 2 mafia - the last completed game I have as scum two months ago.

your point being....?

You said you didn't know which game we've played before. I helped remind you.

I think Pirate mollie is town

Kuroi and pants are both scummy to me

It seems like I'm scummy to you because I said you're scummy to me, which would be circular logic, hombre.

hey kuroi where'd you go

Doing stuff that doesn't involve Mafiascum. That happens sometimes.

outstanding questions:

kitty are you an alt? you don't have to say who you are I am just curious.

blackstar did I like in that game

kuroi how is the timing of that game where you were scum relevant to this 1 and is that really all you have to say to me?

I didn't say it was relevant. And why would I have other things to say to you?

Did my posts not explain it all?

Not in the slightest. Go into detail on your scumreads on Dunnstral and I, because you've barely mentioned us in your catchup.

I'll do that tonight. Work is being crazy so with being short staffed so I'll do that when I can. I'm guessing it'll be around 9 PM EST.

KuroiXHF, you never explained the Derek read, I don't think.

I said I would today. Hold your horses.

Preview Edit - lol at pirate mollie. I've been gone for twelve hours. You need to relax.

[KuroiXHF]

You're splitting hairs. I'm not going to engage in that with you.

[KuroiXHF]

You're splitting hairs. I'm not going to engage in that with you.

What's your opinion of Mollie?

I find her annoying, but that's not necessarily alignment indicative.

[KuroiXHF]

You're splitting hairs. I'm not going to engage in that with you.

What's your opinion of Mollie?

I find her annoying, but that's not necessarily alignment indicative.

why am I annoying?

If it's not alignment indicative, why do you care? Do you see a future between both of us?

[KuroiXHF]

So I'll get to Kevin later but this is why Dunnstral is scummy.

When I get to the ISO, you can tell that Dunnstral is full of fluff and lack of content. His first real content was on 38 where he disliked 35. I disagree with him, but I find the post itself to be fair.
Until 80 everything until then is definitely a spectator perspective. It shows a whole lot of commenting, but not scum hunting. This is one of the first things I look for when I scum hunt - people not participating.
80 - In this post, Dunnstral fights back, but you'd have to notice that he only pushes when he is pushing back. This isn't scum hunting. This is defending. The defense is actually quite lackluster, especially as it related to Blackstar. Why? He split hairs. "No, of course I didn't call Blackstar scum! No, he's just

scummy!

"
In 90 Dunnstral was scumreading and pushing Blackstar, even though he didn't claimed not to call him scum before. Dude, it's fine if you scum read someone, even if they turn out to be town. I'm just going to say that if you're going to scum read someone, at least admit to it. Don't be facetious about it.
95 makes me simply annoyed. He's playing chicken with Blackstar.
BTW, at this point of going through the ISO, I've realized that Dunnstral has only been active in two people - Blackstar and Murdercat.
199 reeks of bussing, or rather, the preamble to it. It seems like he wants to test the waters and see if he has the town's approval to go after him. Obviously, with my vote, I'm in full support and my vote is there. I'd like to call Dunstrall on his bluff and get Derek lynched. Also, perhaps I'm cocky but I feel confident that I've caught at least two of the scum out there.
202 - ...overreacted? After all the shit you've given him? Give me a break.
- With no scum hunting? Brilliant.
[post]440 - Let's get this straight. You scum read Blackstar, even though you refused to say that, yet you're not willing to stick a vote to him.
Then in 633 You vote for Chilledtea... How does this make

any

sense?
828 In this post, you scum read Derek, but you aren't hard on it and it seems like you want to put doubts on him and gauge for town approval. Either that or you want brownie points if he's lynched and you can claim suspicion on him.
Between 905 and 931 you flop your vote twice within two hours, even with RachMarie, you never even scum read her before.

...I'm done looking for things i didn't like about your ISO. I think it's better and easier I find things I like about your ISO. (Starting at Post 1000)
1128 Asking intentions from Chilledtea.
1210 Town-reading Brawl.

That's it. So there you go. I'll check on Derek later.

[KuroiXHF]

I don't know why I kept saying Kevin. I meant Derek.

[KuroiXHF]

As of now, scumreads are Pants>Kuroi>Rach/Star

So many people who I scum read turn out to scum read me.

This is some crazy coincidence, huh?

[KuroiXHF]

Still think Rach is scummy

So, what did you think about my read on you?

[KuroiXHF]

And you think that me poorly explaining reads, as you put it, make me scum?

I also don't like Pants' claim. Not because of anything Pants said, but rather, it puts us in a very awkward position.

If he claimed cop or doc, I would be more aggressive, but he said something that would normally quickly end in a hammer.

BUT we only have four days left.

Four days is enough to change a wagon, I guess. Who would be interested in switching to Derek?

[KuroiXHF]

Dude, it's more than just a lack of engagement. It's coasting by like you're trying to find India.

Thanks for at least being a decent person about it, though.

[KuroiXHF]

Actually, Derek. I don't think you've responded to me at all.

[KuroiXHF]

Dunnstral, I currently town read RachMarie, but I am open to reviewing anyone.

[KuroiXHF]

I've probably taken too much of a load on Mafia games. But I'll do an ISO on Derek like I did on Dunnstral.

And Derek, that one point isn't any misrepresentation. Was there not a ~ten minute window you gave up on at 5 AM?

[KuroiXHF]

So before going through his ISO, Derek is all fluff. His posts appear to be even more superficial than Dunnstral's. Skimming, there are very small amounts of scum hunting. He doesn't get his hands dirty and he plays spectator more than as a player.

Now to read:

- His first four posts are absolutely nothing before he votes Blackstar with no reasoning. I can respect that because Blackstar is an inherently scummy player. What I can't respect, is he doesn't even attempt to say what he doesn't like out of Blackstar. This isn't to say that gut posts are scummy, but you should try to add something to it. At this point in the game, it's fine. It can be seen as an ineffable feeling, but in retrospect, it appears to be testing the waters.
- His next couple of posts are showing his opinion without scum hunting.
- He finally asks a good question. In 227 Even still, it's border line to his previous questions that were simply asking people what they thought of other people. Gaining information =/= scum hunting.
- In fact, the first time he expresses disapproval and even tries to get his hands dirty is in 617. This post is mostly expressing disapproval on things he knows aren't alignment indicative like, "maybe it's just my personality" or "I don't like these arguments."
- ...then two posts later, he says, "Well, it's probably null anyways." (Paraphrasing.)
- I liked 1089 but goodness from him is honestly quite scarce.
- By 1285 I've begun to ask myself what you're going to do with all this amazing information you've gathered all gained... because you've done next to nothing.
- 1522 No you didn't.

Speaking to Dunnstral, I've been considering moving him up to Lean Scum, but I think Derek needs to go.

[KuroiXHF]

Oh, there's a lynch. Well at least there's now my formal argument against Derek.

[KuroiXHF]

Kuroi please get on board with the pants lynch we can talk about derek tomorrow

If I'm not mistaken, he's hammered.

[KuroiXHF]

VOTE: BlackStar

Mostly gut right now.

I have a hard time reading MURDERCAT. To be blunt, shit like 108 makes it hard for me to distinguish.if.he's scum or just playing poorly now. :3

Why does everyone want to quicklynch

This is VERY likely a mislynch on town in my mind

I'm kind of weighing my options here.

The lynch was either Blackstar or Pants. Both have been close on one point or another. I don't know why Blackstar was saved, and why Pants was chosen next. This brings two options to mind:

1. Blackstar is scum and scum pushed Pants to save Blackstar.
2. Blackstar is town and managed to save him by going to Pants.
3. Both are town and so we'd be at a loss either way.
4. Both are scum.

If this is Option 4, we'd see bussing, and I haven't. I also don't think Pants is scum, because the transition is way too fast. This leaves Blackstar as scum, or both as town. Either way, I don't feel right about this lynch. Especially since I null-read Pants.

I will hammer, but if it's close to deadline. Four days gives us enough wiggle room.

[KuroiXHF]

These aren't merely scenarios. These are the possible options of what is happening right now.

Everything is true. I don't want to hammer, but I'd rather cry to sleep over mislynching a townie.

I

[KuroiXHF]

Everything is true. I don't want to hammer, but I'd rather cry to sleep over mislynching a townie.

I

scumslip

I was going to say, "I don't think you've ever played a game with me before," but I thought that sounded bad so I didn't say it.

But now I did.

[KuroiXHF]

Agree with Dunn. If pants has no content in 24 hours the vote goes back because day 1 is the best time to kill a player like him.

UNVOTE:

vote pants now plz

he's not going to do anything in 24 hours and you're just making it hard to hammer for no reason

Come on now, Accountant. I liked your posts. Now you're making me like you less.

[KuroiXHF]

kuroi to both...?

Schrodinger's Mafia: I'm both townie and scum until I die.

[KuroiXHF]

So you think I'm scum but haven't read my posts?

This isn't about this game, is it? You're just jealous that I'm better looking, right?

[KuroiXHF]

So you think I'm scum but haven't read my posts?

This isn't about this game, is it? You're just jealous that I'm better looking, right?

I never said I didn't read your posts.

I said that I skimmed through it and it was because of the way you reply in your quotes. Reading your half catchup from some part of the game and then going back later on felt like a disconnect so I just skimmed through it without an emphasis on analysing the posts.

Your defence of pants was an current affairs thing which I definitely noted.

You obviously didn't read my posts because I never defended pants. I just said I wouldn't vote him.

[KuroiXHF]

By looking at the way that people reacted to his wagon, same as any other. You have been against the lynch because you think it's policy, Dunn is against it saying pants is town, Kuroi is refusing to vote, Accountant tried to quick hammer. This is all useful information depending on the flip.

(In other news, I am now at work so after this conversation with Chumba, I'm hammering)

I did not refuse to vote. I'm voting someone, voting scum. I did also say I'd vote Pants if the deadline required it, but it certainly doesn't appear that way.

[KuroiXHF]

Going through Pants' ISO, it's all superficial. I see no attempts to coast by and nothing that screams scum to me, but there's no attempt at a defense.

So on one hand, I see no argument against Pants, but at the same time, I see no reason why he'd defend himself.

This is a true null if I've ever seen one.

I'll ask all of you - Why Pants?

[KuroiXHF]

So the bees post is irrelevant, nonsensical and in no way useful to finding scum, but... scummy?

[KuroiXHF]

Oh noes! Mah scumbudd-

I mean. ...yay.

[KuroiXHF]

I'm guessing Pants is scum. This doesn't sound like town just got lynched.

[KuroiXHF]

Pants is town.

If he was town, he'd say, "Fuck you idiots! I'm town! You've just lost town!" He's too calm and saying, "Lynch murdercat" like he's WIFOMing us if he is his scum buddy or not.

[KuroiXHF]

"You've just lost town" is different than, "You've just lost, town." Meaning we didn't lose the game but we lost a member of the town. There's quite the distinct difference.

[KuroiXHF]

Yes I corrected myself but you are still wrong and your post is still bad. He's a trolling player to begin with regardless of his alignment so what makes you think he's going to all of a sudden care if he gets lynched? He probably replaced in with the sole purpose of ruining the game to begin with.

Look at his join date. He's played here for like two months. He's not a troll. He's just new. He doesn't know how to play. He didn't know how to argue to find scum or to defend himself and now he's upset.

[KuroiXHF]

Yes I corrected myself but you are still wrong and your post is still bad. He's a trolling player to begin with regardless of his alignment so what makes you think he's going to all of a sudden care if he gets lynched? He probably replaced in with the sole purpose of ruining the game to begin with.

Look at his join date. He's played here for like two months. He's not a troll. He's just new. He doesn't know how to play. He didn't know how to argue to find scum or to defend himself and now he's upset.

So that basically says you know him to be town...

No. It's called reading people. You'd know that if any of your reads were valid. You're voting them based on things that aren't alignment indicative.

[KuroiXHF]

Oh, and also things that aren't true - like town never lies.

[KuroiXHF]

Vig list:

KaaG
ChilledTea
BlackStar

Agree with ChilledTea.
Don't agree with Blackstar, though I see why you'd want to.
Don't agree with KAAG and don't see why.

[KuroiXHF]

How so? You'd give a VT claim a pass? Or it's not his own fault if he's town, which I doubt?

A vt claim from somebody who had no business being at l-1 to begin with? Absolutely

I do agree with vigging this guy. You completely forgot about your accusation of calling me scum.
You might want to stop throwing shit and seeing if it sticks.

Preview Edit - Chumba: Nevermind. I see you did respond.

And no, they aren't. Not necessarily and especially not when they openly admit to it.

Only siths and poor players speak in absolutes.

[KuroiXHF]

Vig list:

KaaG
ChilledTea
BlackStar

Agree with ChilledTea.
Don't agree with Blackstar, though I see why you'd want to.
Don't agree with KAAG and don't see why.

inb4 chilledtea is vig

If Chilledtea is vig, I'd hope for all the time he's lurking, he could ask me a couple questions to see if I'm scum or not.

[KuroiXHF]

Only siths and poor players speak in absolutes.

Yet you just spoke in absolutes. Thanks for confirming you are a poor player.

Thanks for confirming that you know nothing about using movie quotes, Jon Snow.

(inb4 Chumba tells me his name is not Jon Snow.)

[KuroiXHF]

I'm admittedly terrible with pronouns.

(Was that alignment indicative?)

[KuroiXHF]

I'm not going to continue this with you, Chumba. I agree with Rach.

[KuroiXHF]

I know about using movie quotes but you added a line and that line you added is something you are guilty of yourself so...

You've never watched star wars?

That's a movie.

[KuroiXHF]

Okay, so I know I suggested that Chumba is just a pissed off townie, but maybe vig wants to off him. I don't have that many scum reads and for my other scum claims, I'd have to be 100% right. Seeing as there's a chance I'm wrong, I'm comfortable enough for him to be targeted by the vig.

I bet his life on it.

[KuroiXHF]

Replacing out. I need a break from mafia. It makes me get way too emotional and you'd probably be better off with someone else in my slot. Peace

You're learning. I understand if you need to take a break, but I don't want you to think that you're not making progress.

[KuroiXHF]

I just wish KTS was here to finish this. This game is going nowhere.

[KuroiXHF]

It is a team game, which means that you fail at working as a team, since all you do is insult others.

If everyone is upset at something you've done, maybe - just maybe - it's not everyone else.

[KuroiXHF]

It is a team game, which means that you fail at working as a team, since all you do is insult others.

If everyone is upset at something you've done, maybe - just maybe - it's not everyone else.

If pants flips town somebody failed and it certainly wouldn't have been me. It will be all the people who voted pants who decided that a PL was better than lynching scum. If that makes the problem my fault in your eyes so be it.

You understand that town that work together can be wrong too, right?

Give me one name. The name of the single scummiest person here. If they turn out to be scum, I'll formally apologize to you.

[KuroiXHF]

No I didn't you listed two scum reads.

I asked for one, which is one less than two.

Now one name. Give me it.

[KuroiXHF]

Well, you're at least half right.

*pagetop*

[KuroiXHF]

See how I did that pagetop super power? It's my scum abilit-
I mean, my

town

ability!

[KuroiXHF]

No I didn't you listed two scum reads.

I asked for one, which is one less than two.

Now one name. Give me it.

Who am I voting right now? Who have I been trying to get people to lynch since before the extinction of dinosaurs?

Brawl

The last couple pages of Twilight posting could have changed your mind. Now that I got this written in stone, I'll formally apologize if Brawl ends up town.

Until then, I'll diagnose your playing style as idiotic because it fits the symptoms.

[KuroiXHF]

Don't be silly, Mollie. I'm not going to kill you tonight. I'm going to kil-

Oh-ho! You almost got me.

I'm onto you!

[KuroiXHF]

Seriously though, I'm fine if you consider me scum. Not like you can do anything about that now. Let's get done with Twilight and see what happens tomorrow.

Unless you're vig - in which case you'll kill me no matter what I tell you.

[KuroiXHF]

V la until monday

Also noted

[KuroiXHF]

Dunnstral, I thought you scum read be. Why do you think I'm town?

[KuroiXHF]

I'll fully catch up tomorrow.

[KuroiXHF]

I'm not going to vote because these are all mobile posts but I will be back home to my computer this evening

But...

I can't help but notice Chilledtea's go from lurking to desperate defense from day one to day two. The difference is like night and day and it doesn't look like it's coming from town

[KuroiXHF]

I'm not allowed to make observations? Notice how I didn't throw a vote. I came into this day expecting to vote Derek but I'm going to read fully before I throw my vote out.

[KuroiXHF]

Are you denying that pants was the best lynch on day 1?

If you are, then you are wrong. I have always held that if town don't play as a team then there is very little individuals can do about it.

Wait, are you saying that Pants was the best lynch because the town decided to lynch him?

Pants was a bad choice. Nearly a terrible choice.

From my experience, such players as pants (unless they are PR's) make it difficult for town later on by being constantly on the scumdar and allowing scum to camouflage themselves in.

And there have been many players like Pants that I've played with in the past, and I understand the frustration... but he was town.

Sorry, your theory is garbage. I would explain but I actually don't think you understand. Even through pure statistical point of view, your theory is bad. The assumption that a quickwagon is always on town is so silly that it is hurting my brain. So many bad assumptions, I don't play mafia that way, sorry.

A condescending tone is not a great defense.

did u miss the bit where I said I thought TBG was almost certainly scum

This was what made me suspicious of you though.

How did you go, from TBG is most likely town, to TBG is most likely scum? That progression of your read was very bad and it makes a lot of sense to me that an SK might have done that to look like town Vig.

Like, if you are town you are the worst vig player I've seen. And that is not possible, sorry.

durrr ad hominem
vote this scumlord plz

Okay.
VOTE: ChilledTea It's beyond scummy after your role claim to start going after you. You've also been one of the towniest players all game. Not only is ChilledTea scum - he is bad scum.

I'm not allowed to make observations? Notice how I didn't throw a vote. I came into this day expecting to vote Derek but I'm going to read fully before I throw my vote out.

you said you didn't throw a vote down cos you were on a mobile phone and not for any other reason.

so yes, it does look like you were throwing shade down.

HEY GUYS I HAVE THIS FANTASTIC IDEA HOW ABOUT IF YOU ARE TOWN YOU TRY BEING TRANSPARENT WITH YOUR THOUGHTS TIA

Holy fuck shit. Can you please stop with the caps lock? You just woke my fiancee up from her nap. I didn't throw a vote because I was on mobile, and when I'm out and about throughout the day, I'm not able to read everything in a single swoop and gather all my opinions. If I'm on mobile, I'm doing stuff. At home, I'm on a computer.

But holy shit on this misrepresenting implicit accusation.

I'm sorry. A death in the family will require me to request replacement again. Father passed away this morning.

request replacement

Sorry to hear that.

[KuroiXHF]

Just to confirm, Mollie is Southern Spice?

[KuroiXHF]

Okay then. Tell me what was the "best choice" in your opinion. If I recall correctly you thought pants was scum when he was lynched.

I did vote for Derek yesterday. Is there some sort of secret answer I should know about or are you not paying attention?

Yeah this is nonsense. He could easily have been scum.[/quote
I actually disagree. Myself, I'm a better scum player than I am a town player. When I'm lynched, it's mostly because I'm a townie who said something that people didn't like. Pants could have been that.

oh and there is derek. I keep forgetting about him.

chilled y u no talk to meh?

I am also game for Derek. I'm OK for either ChilledTea or Derek. One of the two should die. I don't care which.

OK my words got lost in a bunch of quotes

How come you attack kuroi who voted you but don't seem to care about me? I was also saying pants was town too

What made you think I voted kuroi because he said pants was town?

He contradicted himself. He says there is no better choice for day 1 but when pants was getting lynched he said that pants was probably scum.

Are you even paying attention to the game?

LOL at you saying the exact same thing I said. (The "Are you paying attention?" part.)
But yeah. I agree.

[KuroiXHF]

I screwed up the coding, but I think my posting is clear enough. Let me know if anything is unclear.

[KuroiXHF]

I'm going to ask this:

To Titus - What's BoP? Also, a read list, please.
Mollie - A read list, please. You appear to be scum reading everyone. Obviously, not everyone is scum.

[KuroiXHF]

I'm going to ask this:

To Titus - What's BoP? Also, a read list, please.
Mollie - A read list, please. You appear to be scum reading everyone. Obviously, not everyone is scum.

I am not scumreading every1 don't you dare fucking misrep me again

Holy shit that was not a town reaction.

Secondly, I said that's how you appeared. At least to me. Considering the fact that I remember very few moments where you town read anyone and you scum read so many, I don't feel the very least sorry for saying that.

As for myself, I will post my own read list soon.

[KuroiXHF]

Strong Town: Accountant, KickAssAndGiggle
Lean Town: Chumba
Null: Dunnstral, Titus, Murdercat
Lean Scum: PirateMollie
Strong Scum: ChilledTea, Derek12

@Titus, I will post part of her ISO in the next post, but it's been a long list of "This is scum" and "That is scum." Not so much for town.

[KuroiXHF]

Well you're asking me to recall how. Right now, I have it down as memory. I can confirm that, but it takes some digging. I could be wrong and my mind could be playing tricks on me.

Words in the ISO don't lie. It's more reliable than my memory.

[KuroiXHF]

Yeah, I just don't think you're right there. Say, what would you do if I recommended a Dunn wagon?

I'd probably recommend it as much as I recommended the Pants wagon yesterday, not very much. Not when we have much better lynches like ChilledTea and Derek.

[KuroiXHF]

I did look back and you did have one read list, so I apologize. Still, your reaction is not a town reaction, and I'm not 100% sure you're town.

I am curious though, if we have such a support for Derek, why don't we just vote him?

[KuroiXHF]

Dunn is equal to Pants to me because I null read them both.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Derek

Someone has to start this. Maybe Accountant can vig ChilledTea.

[KuroiXHF]

I don't care if we vote ChilledTea or Derek, but I'm not sure the ChilledTea vote will work...

[KuroiXHF]

I don't care if we vote ChilledTea or Derek, but I'm not sure the ChilledTea vote will work...

You serious?

Do you believe that there are more people here willing to lynch ChilledTea than Derek?

[KuroiXHF]

Then if we get to a point where ChilledTea needs a vote for a lynch, I'll jump on it. For now, I'll see how many people see Derek as scum.

Which leads me to why I don't town read you. You said you see Derek as scum, but you refuse to vote him and even defend him.

[KuroiXHF]

I've voted ChilledTea to make him L-2. Why wouldn't I mind seeing him lynched?

[KuroiXHF]

I don't know what you're trying to accomplish by voting Titus.

[KuroiXHF]

Then please give us an updated read list. Last I knew, you've had plenty of other people you find scummy and you're not voting any of them.

[KuroiXHF]

uhhh... Derek is scummy as fuck and I'm not?

[KuroiXHF]

Then please give us an updated read list. Last I knew, you've had plenty of other people you find scummy and you're not voting any of them.

I have just proven your misrep so instead of targeting some1 else with your misrepping how about you address how what you did was a misrep instead of ignoring it and hoping that I will not call you out on it.

...'kay I'm going to start ignoring you again.

[KuroiXHF]

I didn't say that. Look my posts over again.

[KuroiXHF]

I said that it appeared that way. That's no misrepresentation because for it to be that way, she'd have to be me. She can't tell me if I'm lying to myself. I did follow up with that one stray read list she made. I'm moving on. She's not.

[KuroiXHF]

I said that it appeared that way. That's no misrepresentation because for it to be that way, she'd have to be me. She can't tell me if I'm lying to myself. I did follow up with that one stray read list she made. I'm moving on. She's not.

This right here is part of the reason I don't trust you. This is walking bad what you said. That conversation between you and Dunn looked very much like you were trying to convince Dunn that there wasn't enough support on me/Chilled to warrant a lynch on Chilled and telling him to get onto the Derek wagon.

You're telling me that you don't trust me because I wasn't doing everything in my power to calm Mollie down. Her reaction was absolutely psycho, and it wasn't a town reaction. If she had concerns that I was painting her with a broad brush, it wouldn't come from this level of anger.

Like I just said, I was watching paint dry because I thought that your conversation with Kuroi was a S + S (not versus) and you were debating whether to bus or not. You were basically saying Chilled is viable. Kuroi says no. You come to this realization and rather than jumping on Derek, your scumread, you jump onto me instead because of me scumreading you.

I wanted to watch paint dry to see if Kuroi could convince you to bus.

You didn't answer Dunn's question.

[KuroiXHF]

lol. Figured as much. Scum reading me because I'm the one leading the charge against him.

I'm fine with that, though. Let's see who replaces Derek.

I'll UNVOTE: for now and place my vote back on VOTE: ChilledTea

[KuroiXHF]

@Kuroi, Not really doing much leading on Derek.

Starting the wagon does say a lot, especially if all he's done was skim.

[KuroiXHF]

Oh and Kuroi, you don't get to call Mollie psycho. Absofuckinglutely not. You do that again, I will permavote you.

Stop making this game personal. I didn't call her psycho. I called her reaction psycho.

And it is.

Don't attack the person. Attack the argument.

k, thanks.

[KuroiXHF]

I did. She reacted psychotically, in an illogical way. That's how scum reacts.

Again, don't get personal over another player. I'm not looking to play this sort of game that ika and silet wolf played.

I say what I mean. I don't play semantics

[KuroiXHF]

I've attacked arguments. Not people. Its a shame you've dictated your play style on stuff that has nothing to do with the game

[KuroiXHF]

To clarify, I also attack actions.

[KuroiXHF]

Titus, either report what I've said or don't but play the fucking game.

[KuroiXHF]

You aren't playing the game. Personal effects shouldn't be a factor. Youre just making excuses now.

[KuroiXHF]

...so what do you want from me? You want me to apologize to Mollie because I've called her reaction psychotic instead of scummy?

Let's start with you sending me a list of words I shouldn't use so we'll avoid this issue in the future. Come on, I'll send you my e-mail address.

[KuroiXHF]

Yeah apologizing to her would be a start. You weren't attacking her arguments.

Yes I was. Please refer to my post. Read it five times. Fifty times. A thousand times. Enough where you found that I used the words "your reaction" and not "you."

Second, I am not the word police.

Really? You sure seem to be.

Yet here, why did you say psychotic instead of scummy?

Hey, word police. Your shift ended fifteen-minutes ago.

Now I'm going to go and slap you with a taste of truth:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=6470

Do not make any post or start any thread with the intent to insult or offend any other user on this site.

I had no intention to hurt anyone. I was making an observation on her horrid reaction.

Do not make any post or start any thread that abuses or harasses another user.

I did nothing to any other user. Again, I insulted a reaction.

Derogatory language, including but not limited to language that is particularly offensive to a group of people (e.g. a race, gender, sexual orientation, disability), may be moderated depending on context. Using language or images that use race, gender, sexual orientation or disability to insult or offend is not permitted.

Psychotic is not a race, nor a gender, nor a sexual orientation, nor a disability.

Other content may be inappropriate and will be acted on at the discretion of the moderators.

*waiting for a mod...*

A rule often said by many - attack the argument, not the player.

Mollie, if you read this...
I hope you didn't think I called you psychotic? If you did, I'm sorry you read it that way.
But your reaction was scummy as hell and fucking psychotic.
But you're not. (I don't know you well enough to know if you are or not.)

[KuroiXHF]

hey to kuroi and titus please stop actnig shitty towards 1 another plz thx

I've been shitty to no one.

[KuroiXHF]

Ladies and gentlemen, I'm headed off to bed. I'll respond sometime tomorrow evening.

[KuroiXHF]

This is a mobile post but I thought pants was scum only after the lynch because of his exit.

[KuroiXHF]

Mod, hoping for a vote count.

[KuroiXHF]

Of course I'm town.

I'm the fucking doctor.

(I'm claiming now because waiting until L-1 usually involves someone hammering. This happens too much to me.)

Who wants to counter claim or continue my lynch?

[KuroiXHF]

And for what it matters, I protected KAAG last night.

[KuroiXHF]

All of you have the right to vote me if you think I'm lying. But for those of you who actually want to catch scum, here's something you want to take a look at.

My game history. I get mislynched often, most often as town. I understand that I have an abrasive personality and play style, but recognize that if you want to lynch me because I'm harsh with my words, you're lynching me for the wrong reasons. Please let me know if you want my town or scum history, because I don't want to waste my time if you're going to lynch me anyway.

[KuroiXHF]

Don't mean to make four back-to-back posts.

I can confirm my role too. Accountant, if you want to use a night to confirm a townie, choose one person. Shoot him and I'll save that person.

[KuroiXHF]

Yeah, I don't need a counterclaim on this. Why would scum shoot the cop if they had a roleblocker? A scum roleblocker is a practical necessity for Kuroi to be town.

Second, this reeks of counterclaim fishing.

Third, you're not being lynched solely for abrasive words.

No, I'm being lynched because my words were hurtful and it hurt your feelings.

...Where was there a roleblocker?

[KuroiXHF]

By the way Chilled is also claiming pr.

We have a vigillante, a doctor, a cop

And chilled is claiming pr too.... hmmm

Seems a bit overloaded?

Maybe not if the mafia has some powers too, but what did Chilled claim?

[KuroiXHF]

Nothing, he just softed pr.

Oh well that sounds super reliable.

[KuroiXHF]

I think there's a bit more of commitment on my part. If I am scum and there's another doctor claim, I'm definitely dead.

"Something special" could mean one of the other thousand Mafia roles out there.

But either way, my claim isn't going to necessarily deter people from voting me. This isn't my first Mafia game. I just want people to know what they're getting into. It's much more than just lynching me. They're risking their (most likely) only doctor that I'm scum. So if you're that sure about me, vote me. If not, then I know we have plenty of other people sketchy as fuck we could vote.

[KuroiXHF]

I really want to vote Titus.

Like, really.

But I can't be convinced he's scum right now.

I'd rather vote Derek, but I'm not during the replacement.
And I'm voting ChilledTea, because of obvious reasons.

[KuroiXHF]

I feel like you're saying this to protect your buddy. But like I said, I'm not going to vote Titus. At least not now. I can choose to not like someone while still playing this game.

But you're right. We're in a sweet position. I'll probably take a break and come back in an hour or so.

[KuroiXHF]

Mollie. I hope I'm wrong about you. I really don't see you voting Titus. I'm not calling you a liar, but I am saying that I have a hard time believing people in a game where people are trying to deceive me. Even town lie. Even town deceive.

Even though I don't think my being led to believe what I do is your fault. And I don't blame you for stretching out day. It's probably the same reason I talk so much during day. I want to find scum. It's probably also the reason I get voted early on. I say something people don't like and I get lynched as a result. In fact, the only game I remember where I stayed until the end was Clowntardis from last December/January.

Am I paranoid? Yes. I'm always paranoid playing this game, but don't use this as an excuse. If you honestly think I'm scum, keep your vote on me, as long as you know you're risking the doctor.

But please don't protect me out of pity.

[KuroiXHF]

I think Kuroi is scum because of the timing of his claim. He wasL minus 2 for awhile. People started to coalesce lynch Kuroi then vig Derek slot.

I asked for a vote count. I asked because votes are changing left and right and I don't want to claim at L-3.

Then Kuroi claims doctor and asks for CC. Nope. Not buying it.

For all you know, ChilledTea is the CC - or I'm ChilledTea's CC.

Kuroi votes Derek and engages Dunn about it. Neither of their posting looks like they are sorting each other at all. They're talking about viable lynches but neither really questions the other's alignment. Yet, neither claim to be hard townreading each other.

You're correct, but only by a technicality. We both scum read a whole lot of other people. I think it's safe to say we are more likely to town reach each other before we town read a couple of others.

People coalesce more.

At first I thought that was a typo, but you keep using it. I'm not familiar with this term.

Ten Kuroi claims.

Not buying it.

Even the best salesman can't sell bacon to a Jew. I don't think I could say anything to convince you I'm town. I'm certainly not trying.

[KuroiXHF]

Mollie. I hope I'm wrong about you. I really don't see you voting Titus. I'm not calling you a liar, but I am saying that I have a hard time believing people in a game where people are trying to deceive me. Even town lie. Even town deceive.

if town are deceiving you on the regular then you are playing with the wrong pple. SOMETIMES there is a legit reason for town to lie but they better know what they are doing. it is town's job to be as transparent as possible so that if they die there is a clear trail of their thoughts. I read dead player's isos.

Maybe I am, maybe I'm not. What I'm worrying about myself is that I'm over-sampling the exceptions. Meaning if I find town lying one time out of ten, I'd assume they do it seven times out of ten.

I am still confused why you think that I won't vote titus. I freaking pulled up some rock solid meta on her that points to her as scum and I still lean scum on her. I thought you were scummates together. I unvoted because I am not ready for the day round to end. it really is that simple.

I really will have to re-read everything. As I've said and I really don't want to make a whole internet fight about this again, but the way Titus defended you yesterday reminded me of Ika and Silver Wolf when they were here and remembering everything just gave me a migraine thinking about it. It's just mentally exhausting.

I don't want to discuss those two, or your histories with them. I just want you to know why it's thrown me off base so much.

it isn't so much as I "did not like what said" its that I found it hard to see your thinking coming from a town POV. and I think you are town now and I still am confused as to how you are drawing the conclusions that you are drawing. idgi.

I think it's hard when you have limited exposure of me, but otherwise, there's not so much I can do of how I can make your impression of me coming from town or not.

[KuroiXHF]

You should vote me then.

Second, there's no scum flip. I could be a dick and go all BoP on your ass, or you could actually answer my questions.

VOTE: titus

oh and I did!

we were NOT supposed to play together until our trial run was over. if this is your town game then you have not improved at all nor learned a single thing from me.

if you are scum then you are breaking the spirit of the game by coming in to a game that I was in when we are NOT supposed to play together for a while until our trial run is over specifically to try to get me mislynched just so that you can brag and say that you did.

I told you that was shitty. if this is what you are doing then there will be words and you are really not going to like what I will have to say.

This looks like you really did scum read Titus, but I saw the post where you unvoted her, and that post was dedicated to me.

I would understand it if you voted me, but you just unvoted. Were you preparing to vote me?

[KuroiXHF]

I did. She reacted psychotically, in an illogical way. That's how scum reacts.

Again, don't get personal over another player. I'm not looking to play this sort of game that ika and silet wolf played.

I say what I mean. I don't play semantics

how is pointing out your misrep going "psycho" exactly?

you misrepped me. I said don't fucking do it again and then I proved you wrong and you backpedaled and are trying to discredit me by saying my reaction was psycho when all I did was state that you misrepped me and then proved you wrong.

you leap off of derek like wildfire when the first question that hsld have popped in your head after reading your top scumread's final post, "huh. well if he didn't read the end of d1 nor much of d2 then how the fuck does he have mollie as his top town read?" but no you didn't wonder about that at all instead you rushed to vote a softclaimed special.

UNVOTE:

I am not done and we are not rushing this cos I want to make sure that my townreads and I are on the same page and we have a plan of action if I am wrong.

kuroi/derek for sure. kuroi has been trying to bus all game but jumps off the second derek replaces out? lol, fuck no, I mean the hint of some1 else replacing into that slot shld not make you do a 180 like that.

its okay, wis has made his scummate's replace out too with his hardbussing lololololololol

I have read it. You're just dismissing me. You said, "We are not done and we are not rushing this" when Titus is nowhere near a lynch. That's not an explanation. That's actually the lack of one.

[KuroiXHF]

Mollie, yet you haven't explained yourself. Just more mud slinging. I'm sure you're a nice person but I'm not so sure I want to continue playing with you

[KuroiXHF]

As I said before, I'm fine with you teasing the day out. It's your behavior and attitude that I'm not ok with.

[KuroiXHF]

Hey Kuroi if Rach really was obvious cop as people keep saying why didn't you protect her? Also can someone else tell me why she is obvious cop so in teh future I know what to look out for

This is a mobile post. Full post later.

Kaag was and is my strongest town read. Rach, if I recall correctly was only a lean town.

[KuroiXHF]

Okay for these players {Kuroi, mollie, Titus}

I want each of you to list any personal grievances(non game related) you may have towards the other two. Then we can resolve them and move on with the game. Dont' go into a rant, just say something like "Accountant likes to use personal attacks" and summarize it so we can quickly wrap this up. Town won't get anything done if we're at each other's throats

My issues with Mollie is that she receives any criticism on her play style as a misrepresentation, and then screams about it. She's annoying. She's exhausting.

My issues with Titus is that she factors in non-game related feelings into the game. She receives my words as personal even though they are factually not. Once discovering that I did not attack someone, she continues to state that I do because she thinks I'm right only by semantics. As a result, I'm perma-voted by her. It's the result of a child saying, "I'M NOW GONNA HATE FOR ALL OF INFINITY +1!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111one111"

Thats not how cognitive biases work

Excess unrelated stuff clogs up a game

I'm very familiar with how cognitive biases work.

You obviously do not.

Everyone brings cognitive biases to the game.

People work to reduce their cognitive biases. You embrace yours.

Yours is ironically being excessively rational and supposing people think like you do.

This is a rational game. This is a game of logic. Unless you can create a direct link between you thinking I'm an asshole to me being scum, you should stop typing and maybe think about your actions.

We

I

don't.

Fixed that for you.

Now here's how I'm going to move forward. I'm going to examine my likely options:
1. I'm going to ask the mod to remove Titus for not playing this game.
2. I'm going to request out.
3. I'm going to vote Titus because of these reasons. (I'd rather not, because that would be hypocritical.)
4. Any suggestions you have.

I hope this game will move forward in the right direction. I want to find scum, not the biggest asshole in the room.

[KuroiXHF]

I've said it like five times. Your use of the word "psychotic" is not part of why I'm scumreading you. You can wait for my wall, and then try to argue that I'm scumreading you for what you said

alone

when I was saying you/Dunn/Derek have been the scumteam for awhile.

I believe you've said that it's partially so. You stated that you would permavote me and then subsequently voted me.

[KuroiXHF]

I don't want to be a robot, I want to be a rationalist. There's no need to talk like spock or only in flat neutral tones, the point is that each game is treated like an airtight bubble where only the facts are considered(this is also why I hate meta arguments)

I don't think any one of us are in danger of being robots - especially compared to the dangers of the opposite and completely irrational.

Preview Edit: I'll see what Titus has to say. (She's a she, BTW) It's probably safe to say her vote isn't going anywhere.

[KuroiXHF]

So Titus, are you saying you'll only not-vote me if I'm

proven

to be town?

That sounds a hell of a lot like semantically not breaking the rules?

[KuroiXHF]

accountant how are you ignoring that kuroi is saying that I am doing things that I haven't done and is saying that I have not done things that I clearly did.

I have proven him wrong.

TWICE.

and he is not criticizing my play he is downright lying about it and when I prove it he tried to discredit me by painting me as "psychotic" w/o ever addressing the fact that he is wrong.

you even quoted my explanation that he claims that I never gave!

I MEAN GODDAMN

lol holy shit.
You actually believe that, don't you?

[KuroiXHF]

I'll have my response and more reads coming soon, folks.

[KuroiXHF]

lol holy shit.
You actually believe that, don't you?

Is there a purpose behind this post or are you just being provocative

Honestly, I'm being sassy, especially since she's going on and on about something that I haven't fought her on.

I'm going to take a couple steps back here and say that I've been getting too heated in this game. Mollie, I think you're flawed in your way of thinking because it seems like you find scum and town by looking at people and trying to crawl under their skin and find their motivation. The thing is, I don't work that way and my mind often works in ways where I even lose myself. I think I've adopted a playstyle that adopts an erratic playstyle because it allows for consistency for when I'm town and for when I'm scum. Because of this, I'm often lynched as town. I didn't want to do this before because it takes a lot of time to go through my games and trying to find them on MS isn't the easiest thing in the world, but it's necessary, because I'm not your run of the mill player. I think you know that by now:

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=65884 - Open 634: Sharing is Caring - Please look especially for my interactions with Blacle Works. I didn't like him and he didn't like me. I'm pretty sure I'm even more civil here.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=65370 - Open 627: Mexican Standoff - I do NOT like RC (Part of Mad King Ashnard). I'm not as abrasive as I am elusive. It testifies to my playstyle.
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=51&t=65320 - Open 625: Yuk it up Buttercup - This is the game with Ika and Silver Wolf. This is why I have trust issues when someone shows favoritism or affection toward another player. This probably explains a lot of the pent up aggression toward Mollie and Titus.

...I'm even going to apologize for some of what I've said, because I agree with Accountant. We're just crapping up the game. ChilledTea found himself a little nook to hide in while we just do this. Everyone is just watching in from the side lines.

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... 3&start=25 - Buzzfeed Mafia - speaks to both my elusiveness and abrasive game style. It also explains why I've claimed a bit early. I was the doctor that game too and I was lynched before I claimed.

Now to reflect on Titus' wall:

He said that he was pushing Kuroi before it became cool to do so.

(In reference to Murdercat) - Titus, why don't you believe that he's simply bussing me? Because you find him town otherwise?

Kuroi's response to me felt highly partner indicative

To which post? What do you mean by partner indicative? I'm not your partner because you wouldn't admit to being scum.

Kuroi said that Dunn is a bad push because he is null. He repeats that null lynches are bad mantra again in 2152. He also attempts to start a Derek wagon. Chilledtea had a wagon on him at the time, so why would Kuroi get off to support a Derek wagon, when Derek had no content?

I don't see what's wrong with the reasoning why Dunn is a bad push. Also, Derek doesn't have no content. He has

bad content.

That's why he's a good lynch.

So Titus, are you saying you'll only not-vote me if I'm

proven

to be town?

That sounds a hell of a lot like semantically not breaking the rules?

Knock it off. If I'm wrong, I'll unvote you but I trust my reads in the absence of a reason not to trust my reads. I'm notoriously stubborn like that.

But you didn't unvote me, and I'm not sure why you'd pride yourself on being stubborn. I mean, I'm stubborn, but I'm trying not to be. That's why I took a step back.

Also for everyone, I really do have to say that I'm not an easy read. I'm not going to apologize since I'm sure I'm a nice whet stone for the blade of your scumdar, but I can't imagine it's easy for you.

[KuroiXHF]

You're STILL doing the Look at me I'm a wounded puppy dance.

Still? When did you first think I'm doing the wounded puppy dance? The part I really wanted people to read were my other games. Did you read those? Do you know anything about how I play my games?

Now, I'm not playing favorites with Mollie

I thank you for making that change. It means a lot.

You've been insinuating that players are playing for other than game reasons rather than reading the thread and then complaining that the insults are clogging the game thread.

I've not insinuated a single person of doing that. I explicitly said it to you and with Mollie, I expressed concern. I showed skepticism, but for all the things I don't like about Mollie, I don't consider her a liar. (Unless she's lying about being scum. I mean lying about stuff like this.)

You can't argue that I'm not playing the game because I hard core scumread you and then argue that it's noise completely disregarding the fact my scumread isn't over that stupid word at all.

That was never my complaint. My complaint was that you scum read me and compounded your scum based on my actions as a person. If you scum read be

solely

because you find that my actions are that of scum, vote me. I just don't want to be voted because you don't like me or you think I'm a jerk.
On a related note, I would really like to put this behind us. I'm sick of arguing this, and I'm sure you are too. Can you promise me right now that you are voting me 100% solely because you think I'm scummy and not because of your perceived attack on Mollie?

All your interactions since I subbed in indicate that your partners with Dunn and Derek. A null read is an excellent place to push.

I've always scum read Derek. I've scum-read Dunnstral until today. Your premise is faulty.

[KuroiXHF]

so you agree that you made up that I said every1 was scum and had no townreads and you agree that I gave you an explanation as to why I did not want to cut the day short.

I've not doubted you after you explained this the first time, at least about cutting the day short. I have no problem with you teasing the day out. If you tend to die early, then give us all you can.

determining the motivations behind each player is the heart of scumhunting. the only pple whom this bothers are pple who have something to hide.

do you have something to hide kuroi?

I think I spoke poorly before. My mind works differently. What you do for everyone else doesn't work for me. That's why I get mislynched before Day Three in most games. Did you see the games I've posted? And no, I've got nothing to die. I've given my reads. I'm dying tonight anyways.

okay. so how do you scumhunt? cos right here you are talking about how you see yourself as a player in a game it tells me nothing of how you play the game or what is your MO which is what I am trying to figure out.

I see what I read. I factor in meta. I factor in a partial amount of looking at motivation. I then add in gut factor, which heavily influences my final read. Me explaining probably won't mean much to you. I'm admittedly not good at explaining stuff. That's why I've shown you my previous games. They show a lot more than I can explain.

[KuroiXHF]

Speaking of ChilledTea, where the hell is he? It's kind of interesting that once we demand a claim, he's gone somewhere.

And yeah, Mollie. I do feel better. I deliberately skipped your last question because I know it's leading to another fight.

[KuroiXHF]

Speaking of ChilledTea, where the hell is he? It's kind of interesting that once we demand a claim, he's gone somewhere.

And yeah, Mollie. I do feel better. I deliberately skipped your last question because I know it's leading to another fight.

why wld me saying that you are not alone make us fight, kuroi?

I don't know you but I have a sneaky suspicion that we wld get along if you gave it a chance.

I was referring to the following as would leading to a fight:

you honestly shld have thought of this before you accused me of doing things I never did and saying I never did the things I actually did.

I suppose I would be an ass if I would be unwilling to give chances. We got off on the wrong foot, and I'm sure I have my fair share of the blame.

So yes, let's start over.

[KuroiXHF]

Well the question becomes, "Is the Derek spot so scummy that there's reasonably nothing that the new Derek could say that would make him look town?"

As much as I want to say yes, I can't see myself voting an empty Derek slot when there are others we could vote, like ChilledTea.

[KuroiXHF]

Mod, I don't remember if I've given notice this game but in about an hour, I'm going to start my v/la until Tuesday-ish because of my wedding.

Team, that means I won't be able to effectively scum hunt or defend myself. All I can really say is I'll pop in when I can. If I die, there's nothing I can do about it. I just want some scum caught!

[KuroiXHF]

Thank you!

[KuroiXHF]

lol. Heading to bed. If you really want, I'll post a picture when I get back.

[KuroiXHF]

You think I'm lying because we also have cop? You don't know if the mod likes lots of roles or if the scum is over powered