Mini Theme 2007: Police Academy 1 - Game Over

[eddie]

Ankamius (replaced PenguinPower)
Jingle
Gorkington
Nosferatu (replaced KidAmn)
Punreader (replaced CheekyTeeky)

{Eddie, Titus, OTM, ETL}
Literally 1 more town and its game

Scum pool of Nos, Ank, Gork, Pun, Jingle

VOTE: Pun

Flip this and then dig into the third it is

[eddie]

If Ank could run down why Gork is scum

and Jingle could run down why Nos isscum

that would be swell

[eddie]

Because it's nonsensical for me to drive home a wagon on scum-A50 like I did unless Titus or Nosferatu were my other partner, Titus being basically impossible and Nosferatu being another really weird choice of partner for me otherwise.

Basically, you have to be thinking I'm pulling a really weird gambit or just not playing to my win condition in order for me to be scum, which... well, is what I've been arguing today anyways.

I don't think you're scum. I haven't voted you once this game.

I think you're the closest to town in the scum pool. ETL is Jingle cleared, Math is Jingle cleared and A50 spewed town, Titus is cop cleared. This is the town core. Scum goofed by killing SGBA.

However,

you did unvote A50. I know you can say that means nothing, and its not a huge deal, but it is a thing that's relevantish. You also spent a lot of time pushing myself and got shot down, and d2 is a pretty standard bus day. I town lean you, but last game your paranoia with my slot never went to you actually trying to lynch me and your tunnelling on Gork and myself when I didn't really scumread Gork skeeves me out.

So lynch Pun, she can flip red, and we can go from there.

[eddie]

Ank, cheeky's in your sig. How well do you know him?

[eddie]

eddie, I unvoted A50 because the wagon was very close to going through and Jingle had just restarted an engagement with me, then OTM and SGBA lolhammered the wagon before that engagement finished.

My vote being off the wagon is irrelevant.

I don't want to make this a big deal because again I'm not pushing you as scum and its a waste of time

So I'll say it again, that's a fine reason and all but unvoting does pause momentum and if you're scum partners it forces yet another townie to have the correct read, not always a doable thing. Gives you an opportunity to switch and/or coach too in scum chat. It isn't a big deal and yes you did do a lot of A50 pushing, I remember you being very impactful to the wagon, but it is still a thing.

[eddie]

Cheeky and I only played one game, and even then that one was brief.

If it helps, I was scumreading her until right before I got lynched; she obvtowned right before that.

Okay

never mind then

[eddie]

because you were half assed busing?

i dont wanna keep wasting effort on a useless discussion friend

[eddie]

I would let myself get wagoned and self hammer so you couldn't find associations to my partner

[eddie]

I would 1v1 you with the force of a thousand nachos

[eddie]

Math, you still around?

[eddie]

Why ETL is town

-Jingle can reliably read this slot
-I don't believe Jingle to be scum overly ATP and I do believe in his ability to read her
-However, if Jingle does flip scum we can reconsider
-However however, I still don't think he treats his partner like that.
-Scum ETL reflexively pushes me a lot more than she did
-Was on scum lynch
I don't think I can continually shade Jingle and ETL feasibly anymore. Too far into the game for that. Overall, town.

Why Titus is town

- Schadd gut townread her lol
- More importantly, mathematically cop inno'd. Weird how many repeat results we have, but weird in a way that doesn't impact this slot being town
Sorry Titus. We clearly have a long way to go as town together. At least this isn't WR mafia.

Why OTM is town

- spewed town by A50
- spewed town by Jingle
- Mulch was just townie anyways
- Again, we can review it on a Jingle scumflip but I still really don't think this slot is scum and I don't think a Jingle scumflip will happen anyways
Math pointed out the same bullshit I did with Jingle, HOWEVER, despite Jingle's false confidence it still was the correct play to cop the same targets and who we did cop worked out so I guess right for the wrong reasons. Also, aside from that Jingle has been pro town anyways and contributed a lot.

Why Eddie is town

- I am a living God
- Schadd would be a God but he flaked from the training so he is a lowly Demigod
- Also, he was right about Titus but probably wrong on Pun so we are equals dammit
- Congrats on sitechatmods (tm)
- I can see my role pm





If we can find 1 town in {Gork, Nos, Jingle, Ank, Pun} then gg wp wrap it up boys.

Ank is spewed town hard by A50, but not quite in the tier above. Call it OMGUS.

Jingle <--> Nos and Gork / JJ <--> Ank are interesting interactions. Jingle is someone who can case, so I want to see him case Nos still. I kinda just wrote Nos off as town for words and his stuff didn't really ping me but we are getting to the PoE stage where that doesn't fly. Gork I had some town pings, but also lacked some of his normal towniness and Ank seemed to be on the same plane as me kind of.

Jingle might be the most valuable flip today for info, but I don't want to do it.

Pun has a shit push on me, shit pushes in general, and a relevant point is still that Cheeky's flake was a scumflake. This is today's lynch.


If you disagree with the bottom half, I expect every player in the game should agree with the top.

[eddie]

<3

[eddie]

Almost50 was lynched. He was

Spoiler:

Mafia Cop

Oulright gang, mafia had a Mafia Cop which means we're Brobably dealing with a traitor of some sort

if u look at my posts on main i had essentially three reads which were porkens town ( ), vote a50 ( ) and pp/ank town (lookin goud)

i wish i had been around more to try to snuggle and cuddle with gork more but... oh welll you know....

But yes Titus needs to reset since she's proven wrong on two reads now

i added this to multiquote because it looked like she was rather assuming titus town but at some point titus became consensus town and Pah Whatever

Titus cmon you’re giving me sads here.

Moonlogic powers? *sniff*

Sure but let me catch up tomorrow.

Can you at least tell me why ETL? And why you wouldn’t catch up before submitting a cop request (assuming you submitted one)?

clever

I have learned nothing

rings a bit town

town sgba

town on titus

s

So we are random cop or Titus is town, ya?

you are a naive baby boy

I'm he anyways, I think Schadd is too. IDK why he set it to They.

we are two (2) boys

Schadd come play loser!

i simply will

I'm he anyways, I think Schadd is too. IDK why he set it to They.

there's two of you

Yes

A50 consistently defended Titus against all reason. << textbook whiteknighting in retrospect.

also feelz like town

jjh927 replaces Gorkington effective immediately.

jj replacing into a game with eddie in it is towny :T

So how's life, guys

i think im ok

Has ETL and Jingle's ability to place each other been brought up significantly yet

still talking about that... hm....

What's wrong with that

PEdit: I haven't read the game

gork dodgy the eddie all game and gork no likey the scummy

yes

Wow. Townreads having a slapfight over whether to lynch me and literally nothing else useful since day start. Could people please stop speculating about sanities until we have all results?

JJ, results? We need them before I start yelling at math over why I'm not "pitching a bad plan."

OTM, why was my case bad? Not why was it wrong or scummy, why was it bad?

ETL, OTM is basically Titus with more emphasis on mechanics. Also, inherited a locktown slot.

I will throw myself bodily in front of an OTM or ETL lynch. If/when I flip both of them should be considered conftown.

I

still

want the Ank towncase from pun.

i was gonna ask what your read was on pun but it seems like you had already been townreading ank at this point? so Ferget it

Scum on Stop Getting Banned Again
Scum on Ankamius


What's the strat? Pretty sure unless I'm wrong somehow this is all gonna be super wavy, and the cop stuff should primarily be beneficial lategame from using stats to determine who the sane/insane cops probably are- and even then, that's only really useful to the individual.

So your checks are paranoid or random.

Never mind this was totally useful

VOTE: OnTheMark

meh

they have an entire body of work to look at

This is like when Eddie asked me for a readslist like 20 minutes after I replaced in

how did that make u feel

How am I obvtown?

Literally the only scumteam that makes sense with your results yesterday is {you/Titus} or {you/Nos}.

You/Titus is impossible. You/Nos/A50 is laughable.

I still want the towncase on Ank from punreader.

As far as the ETL townread goes, I could write a fucking textbook for a graduate level course in reading ETL. There's a ton of little things I could talk about, like the difference between her town confusion, her genuine scum confusion, and her faked scum confusion. There's her approach to me as a player. There's the degree to which she responds to little things and RL situations in the context of mafia.

But really, don't take my word for it. Ask pun. She'll back me up on this. There are two people in the history of mafiascum who can

maybe

be considered on the same level of expertise in reading ETL as I am. So when I tell you my townflip is as good as a public daycop result in an open on ETL, you can take that read to the bank.

i multiquoted this because of the pun ank thing

incidentally i'm not really trying very hard to sort jingle from posts, is that fair?

I found shinies

i think ankamius is

town

Why Titus is town

- Schadd gut townread her lol

eddie

Why Eddie is town

- I am a living God
- Schadd would be a God but he flaked from the training so he is a lowly Demigod
- Also, he was right about Titus but probably wrong on Pun so we are equals dammit
- Congrats on sitechatmods (tm)
- I can see my role pm

hhhh

thank you for the gongratutation

also wait how was i wrong on pun

i think i was the first (of us) that Gnoticed she was mastina at least

So Eddie who am I copping?

im not eddie but im thinking jjh

im cool with etl titus otl being townzone

nosferatu has at some point felt like p strong town in my intermittent reading of late d1 and d2
Ankamius,.

i am probably available to talk

s

[eddie]

Oulright gang, mafia had a Mafia Cop which means we're Brobably dealing with a traitor of some sort

SNIP

incidentally i'm not really trying very hard to sort jingle from posts, is that fair?

Semi Open setup. There are three scum, all of them are cops of varying sanities.

Not really trying hard to sort Jingle is probably a great idea, cause I'm getting lynched sooner than later out of paranoia anyway.

Spoiler: Posts I've made where I talk about why Nos is scum. I'm sure there are more in my ISO

1. I didn't say I had been wagoned multiple times, you're not reading right. I had been wagoned once before with gork, it died off, had a small resurgence, and died off again. End of day was coming up and old wagons that didn't end conclusively always pop back up because the scumreads are still there. You make it sound like I claimed that I had been wagoned 5 times or something.

2. You're seriously overestimating the danger I was in yesterday. You're acting like if I hadn't hammered I would have gotten lynched and that's just not true. There were legit two people voting me.

"I think Porkens is being too survivalistic, let me hammer him before people can discuss whether I'm a viable wagon in a plurality setup."

it had already been discussed

there are like 4 people openly scumreading me and I've had like 2 wagons today

Note, two wagons here means 3 votes that didn't last two votecounts and my push at the end of the day.

3. I wouldn't have cut the day short with a lolhammer and then pretended like I didn't know because scum!me wouldn't get away with it. Ask literally anyone who's played with me before, I'm not that good.

4. Because you legitimately would not be talking about the quickhammer in relation to me if it was someone else. Titus had a larger wagon at day end. You would be arguing whoever hammered was scum for ending the day before we could finalize night plans.

You have this misconception that the lynch yesterday was between me and porkens. It wasn't. Once you acknowledge that, the narrative kinda seems dumb.

First of all, her argument here is "I would have had a scumbuddy hammer because they would have been under suspicion instead of me." I'm going to assume everyone has played at least one game of mafia, so that I can point out how utterly ridiculous that statement is using hyperbole.

If your scumbuddy is copguiltied, you don't immediately claim scum to draw suspicion off of them.

Secondly, the lynch yesterday was 100% between Titus, Porkens, and Nos. And more to the point, Nos knew that. She said herself that there were people actively suspicious of her. I had literally just brought up lynching her. And Titus was a bigger wagon than her at the end of the day... By one vote.

i kind of get more of a vibe of discomfort from his posts regarding porkens at the time, which i feel kind of makes sense given how porkens was posting?

Yeah, sure. Discomfort. But nothing about that making Porkens scum. The vibe is "why would he do that" not "it's scummy that's he's doing that." I don't disagree that Nos probably thought Porkens was playing badly, because he was. My problem is that despite all of the justification, it still doesn't look like Nos thought Porkens was scum.

the hammer itself does kind of suck, but it maybe kind of lines up that the post immediately before he voted he was engaging etl on her PP kind of lines up with him potentially actually thinking the momentum was swinging towards penguin at that point.

i think the reaction after the hammer feels kind of genuine too.

What about the reaction post hammer feels genuine? What about

that

makes it town?

being suspected is generally a pretty big motivator for both town and scum to start posting more, no?
can you talk about what in particular seems fabricated from the punreader case?

can you also give some words on what this is referring to?

Plus, their reaction to the beetlejuicing implication was not a town reaction at all.

because i honestly have no idea what this means.

still feeling nos town and pending on jingle based on answers.

Sure, both town and scum can post more when under suspicion. But flying under the radar until someone mentions that suspicion of you is most definitely a scum trait. It's what we here at the mafiascum like to refer to as Active Lurking.

Analysis of post 963 will probably end up being pretty large, so I'm going to do that in a separate post.

Beetlejuicing is a tell I experimented with late 2013 and determined was fairly accurate, but had a tendency to catch both scum and high value powerroles. This game doesn't have the latter. Basically, if a player is responding to the thread shortly after they are brought up, it means they are likely to be following along and not posting anything for one of two reasons. They don't want to draw the nightkill to themselves or they don't want to post because they might say something suspicious. This tell is easily misapplied, because the accuracy in it comes from the pattern of behavior over the course of the game, not the behavior once or twice in a game, which is usually more indicative of RL than alignment.

Nos's reaction to me calling her out on being absent and ducking back in as soon as people keep talking about her is where the likely scum bit comes in at this point. She doesn't explain why she's been absent from the thread. She doesn't apologize, or promise more content, or even get all rage-y and tell me she has a life and I can't expect her to be around and posting as much as everyone else.

She basically goes "Yup, and because you're suspicious of me, I'm going to post more." With a heavy implication that she's going to drop off of the face of the Earth again once suspicion dies down. And... Post 1175.

@gork before I got distracted:

I suggest reading this with 963 open alongside it, because I'm not going to deal with formatting quote snips.

The first part of 963 is sheeping a sentiment expressed by Porkens (and then followed by me) roughly 700 posts earlier.

The second part of 963 is a strawman of pun's Titus case. Pun was clearly saying that Titus as town has logic and Titus in this game wasn't doing anything. Arguing that this is a scumread based on "not changing the whole game" is incredibly disingenuous.

The third part criticizes pun for reevaluating Porkens when nothing has changed. For reference, 384, 429, 442. Pun had stated that the last post she read before making 384 was 358, which Nos conveniently ignores. Further, at this point in the game, I was Pun's 3rd strongest townread, and I first expressed my reasoning for Porkens town in 428. But somehow, it's suspicious that porkens moved from the 5th strongest scumread on pun's list to a nullread.

The fourth part criticizes pun for her meta read on Mulch for being vague. Note that, to the best of my knowledge, Nos has never criticized me over the meta case on Mulch that I REFUSE TO ELABORATE ON.

The fifth part criticizes pun for taking a stance that Eddie's replacement was scum-motivated. It conveniently dismisses the posts that elaborated.

And the last part of the "case"? The gimmick alt is being deliberately hard to read by using a gimmick.

This is not a genuine case. This is a faked case. Even more so, because Nos never even acknowledges Pun's response. There's no followthrough, there's no realization that she's wrong, she just drops it as soon as it's clear pun isn't going to roll over and die. Less than 24 hours later, in post 1041 pun has gone from top three scum behind only ETL to "flagrantly anti-town".

I'm gonna stop cluttering the thread for a while, but I can wax poetic on the many reasons we should be lynching Nos again later.

there had already been a wagon on me, it died off, deadline came up and old wagons started popping back up. Multiple people obviously still scumread me. You're phrasing this like I felt that I was legitimately in danger of being lynched yesterday which just wasn't true. If I was actually scared of being lynched wouldn't I just ask my teammate to hammer instead since it would obviously be sus coming from me? Your narrative makes no sense.

This is a nonsense argument. You're basically saying "I wouldn't do something suspicious because it would put me under suspicion." And if that were true, you would be either the best mafia player of all time or someone who literally doesn't play the game.

Speaking of narratives, go ahead and explain yours to me. Start with justifying the argument that 'you were wagoned multiple times', because as best I can tell that's an outright lie. Continue through with explaining how there's any sort of logical disconnect between there being people who thought you were scummy and you NOT having a scum motivation to cut the day short when you thought you could get away with it. And then, for shits and giggles, walk me through the thought process that means having a scumbuddy quickhammer the competing wagon to yours would be less suspicious than doing it yourself, because that kinda seems like the opposite of good scumplay to me.

@Eddie: Do you agree with those reads?

Nos, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense as an eddie partner if Eddie is scum. Her contributions sum up to a wall case on pun that looked like something fabricated, and a spurt of activity every time someone talks about suspecting her. There's a ton of tacit approval for the wagon without the wagon actually showing up. Pretty much my only reservation here is pun's statement that she's scummy regardless of alignment, and pun hasn't come back to talk about that recently, although I may have dreamed asking for that.

@Eddie.

I'm down with your wall on the assumption that pun flips scum. Otherwise, you're not conftown to me. I should probably take another look at OTM's reasoning on that in the first place, tbh.

Also, Ank is solid town after that flip.

the wall as well as this post are schadd in case that is unclear

traitor thing was a joke

i will probably read all of those if we don't have a mechanical win that makes me not have to

yeah a50 spewing ank town is a thing i endorse. he cased draynth pretty hard d1 and i think he doesn't do that as scum

s

[eddie]

OTM is new draynth.

Ank was PP.

And I was talking about Eddies wall from yesterday, I caught that the mythical Schadd came out of his hidey hole.

ouh fuvk i knew that

so otm is incredibly spewn. ank is probably also spewn.

im not mythical

s

[eddie]

you do read like town to me i guess

i think d1 i thot differently but also didn't trust myself to determine

s

[eddie]

So Eddie who am I copping?

pending


you know who pun is now right?

[eddie]

eddie cane:

or

we lynch pun and cop me

this should satisfy everything?

[eddie]

too bad one player with shit reads ismt enough to stop a lynch

[eddie]

theres mo come back for stupid

[eddie]

I motion we cop ank on a pun flip and eddie on a town flip

anybody with an iq above 40 disagree?

[eddie]

gn friend

<3

[eddie]

hello it's me the head that doesn't talk like that

s

[eddie]

math is also calling us obvtown... if you're worried about that thing

s

[eddie]

I'm not even mad

I'm more happy that he effectively scumclaimed in thread

eddie is a temperamental boy

he has recently lost in a long endgame

it is not the official opinion of the hydra that you have shit reads etc.

s

[eddie]

Mark thinks scum is in me/ETL/Jingle

yes i know

i was referring to:

I think Punreader was exactly right in saying that a Punreader-lynch is absolutely horrible for town.

i saw one (probably of several) arguments from her where she claimed that lynching someone that mathblade calls obvtown will cause him to double down

our townflip also does that

s

[eddie]

I'm not even mad

I'm more happy that he effectively scumclaimed in thread

eddie is a temperamental boy

he has recently lost in a long endgame

it is not the official opinion of the hydra that you have shit reads etc.

s

sorry correction: he has more recently lost in a shorter endgame but still frustrating endgame

s

[eddie]

circumstances like eddie hydra being town?

that was a short and superficial comeback and i am isoing you to try to figure out what you're generally talking about

s

[eddie]

it seems like you don't think she has partner options and that she has been obvtown by play?

the former is not immediately obvious to me but i haven't like...read all of d2

for the latter, it's like, she is mastina, mastina is self-professed good at being obvtown as scum. which isn't to invalidate you if you think you have a good way of reading her but etc

it's not like that big a deal. obviously if we get lynched there is a strong directive towards copping punreader (or just lynching punreader? and copping like jjh) and we have 2 more mislynches

i disagree with eddie that ank should be copped lmoao

s

[eddie]

does she... know that u know the philosophy

i guess you weren't in the game for the ginngie kill

s

[eddie]

do u townread nosferatu

s

[eddie]

i guess like

as long as you will lynch punreader before otm, titus, etl when it comes to it then we are probably fine

s

[eddie]

do u want to lynch like jj today maybe

s

[eddie]

because both of punreader and i (and maybe edide) think he is scum and unless u think it is exactly the two of us . . .

and also in the world where mastina is town and just obstinately wrong about us for like an entire game, well, jj is where 2 look anyway

s

[eddie]

math,

titus is conf town

mathematically

cmon </3

[eddie]

we are finally lynching pun

[eddie]

if that doesn't go through, nos or jj are acceptable today after nos's last couple trash posts

[eddie]

would you accept JJ lynch and Pun cop as today's actions?

[eddie]

VOTE: JJ

[eddie]

Math, I understand what you're saying about Jingle, but I don't think he's scum here. ETL townreads, and ETL is town. His formula day 1/2 was really...bad... but it still ended with the net result of the correct cop path (mass targetting) so it works out. I was kinda actively trying to dissuade scum killing either of them because two great players that can reliably read each other is HUGE and at this point the game is pretty PoE'd.

I think {Nos, JJ, Pun} contains both scum pretty much always now, if it doesn't then we're looking at Jingle or Ank but those two are probably just town.

[eddie]

#2500

[eddie]

I know pretty damn well the philosophy that Punreader has for night play and that in order for Punreader to be scum with that in mind, they'd have to go completely against that philosophy.

I've hydra'd with Pun, I don't think this is as strong as you think it is but whatever

[eddie]

[quote="In post 2414, Ankamius"][/quote]
I originally did too

do you disagree his recent posts are godawful?

[eddie]

consider my vote spiritually on pun. I'll do any of those 3 happily, but definitely prefer pun > jj > nos

[eddie]

Get people to start caring enough and I'll hop back over. I don't care who gets lynched today as long as it's one of Eddie/JJH

You see, I am the conftown. You don't care to do anything. I found scum yesterday and was retaliated on. You are just wanting your pet lynch that you promoted apathy for.

But if we were lynching for causing apathy, Mark has you beat. It's not a large pool, back off of town.

... you don't agree with me mark's lock town?

[eddie]

VOTE: Pun

meH still spritually hammering JJ too

[eddie]

this feels like JJ's scum game though

VOTE: jj

[eddie]

but mastina's suspicion of me is not genuine nor town her

VOTE: Pun

[eddie]

yea pun isnt mastina just like kokichi isnt gerry

[eddie]

like I said get jj to l1 I'll happily vote it

I feel better about pun though

also, math,I would take jingle up too. you need 2 more votes + jingles. he specifically shouldn't want to lynch me here, hes good friends with elli and I am damn sure they've talked about me and elli is probably the closest on site to be able to reading me (not that he beat xcum!me;) )

I could use an expansion from him tbh

still prefer to do pun > jj > nos > jingle though

we arent doing jingle unless etl signs off on it either

[eddie]

And who are we copping?

my choice would be whichever of pun and jj we dont lynch. I would also accept nos. yknow. the person we want to lynch tomorrow is probably best, and we could get another inno like the one that saved titus. and if we do pun, I would also accept me as a cop on a town flip though wouldn't overly advocate for it.

[eddie]

do you disagree with it being optimal to cop the most likely lynch tomorrow?

[eddie]

answer my question

titus is not scum

[eddie]

like

its yes or no

[eddie]

I could use an expansion from him tbh

[eddie]

Sorry to disappoint, but I don't think me and elli have ever specifically talked about you. If we have, it didn't stand out.

Also, haven't you been talking constantly about why you shouldn't be read off of meta? Why then, should I not be interested in lynching you if you're fairly meta proof from second hand meta? And further, if you don't think I should want to lynch you, why aren't you, y'know, engaging me to find out why I am interested in lynching you?

Show me where I've constantly talked about that?

I am not one of the generic good town players that has a bad scum game, I dont deny that. Not a single person has shown the ability to read me consistently. But you have spectated games I'm in, specifically team mafia where I was a major presence in every game, so you should have an idea for how I play.

I dont understand why I am your go to vote now. Wheres the extreme confidence in xcum nos? Wheres the acknowledgement that I'm the person hardest pushing town unity and yes that includes you? I am the person who first lock townread Math iirc, titus is conf, etl is jingle!town, and you havent acknowledged anything I've said to come back with Eddie would be my vote. Feels too bad to come from town you, call it burden of proficiency. I havent (seriously) voted you this game, you're pushing me there though. I'm pushing pretty much exactly the same lynchpool as you?

[eddie]

hey schadd remember when u said u were back

me farts

[eddie]

Titus can be scum if and only if Jingle is

not my question.

do you agree we cop who we want to lynch tomorrow?

[eddie]

see?

jingle is in my lynchpool too, but nos pun and jj are all much more likely to flip xcum. tbh, at this point I'm getting to be more confident on jj cause theres 0 of his town solving here. if you want him you're gonna have to sell it a lot harder than you have mate

[eddie]

Ank

What happens to your reads if JJH flips town? or Eddie flips town?

[eddie]

then I will not dignify you with the respect to vote jj

[eddie]

Ank

What happens to your reads if JJH flips town? or Eddie flips town?

why would this question be relevant to math but not you? you asked him the super random question of hey if these two players flip xcum what happens, mine is much more relevant because you are pretty much only starting two scumreads and 1 mehread, and I know you're at least 50% wrong.

[eddie]

You realize that the same logic can be applied to mine except stronger, right?

math answered

you're being belligerent

[eddie]

I could accept lynch pun or jj and cop Jingle. not my first choice, but acceptable.

anyone take issue?

[eddie]

Spoiler: Posts devoted to "Meta is the wrong way to read me" from Eddie.

Apologies. I forgot to address this.

I can definitely grok your schadd_ argument, btw, pun, but cane seems pretty town since the replace.

That's the problem, actually. Eddie's not where you want to be right now, trust me. His content since coming in has been to establish a presence and challenge you for the position of town leader and direct the town away from the direction it needs to head towards.

Given his competency as both alignments, I can confidently say that this is the play he makes as pun. His approach as town is entirely different.

I can definitely grok your schadd_ argument, btw, pun, but cane seems pretty town since the replace.

That's the problem, actually. Eddie's not where you want to be right now, trust me. His content since coming in has been to establish a presence and challenge you for the position of town leader and direct the town away from the direction it needs to head towards.

Given his competency as both alignments, I can confidently say that this is the play he makes as pun. His approach as town is entirely different.

To further clarify.
Eddie's both a remarkably strong town player AND a remarkably strong pun player. As a result, you can quite well use a modified version of Burden of Proficiency without it being fallacious. If the direction Eddie Cane takes the town is not correct and he makes moves which are advantageous to the pun (e.g. the power play in challenging your status as the town leader), then he is pun; if Eddie were town, then his approach would be something else altogether. (I'm trying to figure out a way of describing the trait of his towngame without giving away my identity. Even though it's basically an open secret at this point, I'd rather not altogether confirm it explicitly.)

I guarantee you he's a backstabber. Honestly he's probably my strongest punread right now, stronger even than Titus.

And to add in further reiteration: part of what makes the move pun is that he

did

spend that time to establish his presence and make it "known" he is "town". He took the time to make you like him. That is one of his strongest puntells.

I can say with upwards of 90% confidence I know my meta here. That level of confidence is higher than almost any other player.

if i was as good of a pun player as implied you wouldnt be able to read me off of 4 quick posts with 90% confidence

At some point since Eddie Cane has joined the site, he himself has indicated that I know what I am talking about in regards to metaing him.

The only person who's read me consistently is Elli and I still won my scum game against him, so this is just false. I know (most of?)my tells and I've never said someone could meta me because I dont rhink meta is how to sort me.

Mulch? Hard meta. See every question Gork's asked me on the topic and my responses, cause frankly I'm tired of rehashing. You? I'm not. You're making town squawks (trying to sort the game and generally being useful) so you're not a good day 1 lynch. I don't have the ability to do an AP level player read on D1, and it's looking more and more like I'm going to have to meta dive you at some point when RL cools down since you disagree with pun's read on you.

I remember Gork asking you. I don't remember you answering satisfactorily. I know Mulch's meta and that wasn't enough to call him town in any metric. What's an AP level player read? Schadd thinks Pun is Mastina and I think its feasible but not worth getting into now idrc.

I'm comparing you to a player from way back so pun can tell me if the level of paranoia is warranted or not. Basically, AP was accurate as town and undetectable as scum. If that's a description of you too, I need to factor that into my reads so that I can avoid letting you slide into any of my blindspots.

Pun knows me pretty well. Like, probably top ten people of the site past and present to play with. I won't confirm or deny your suspicions, because I don't out alts on principle.

As far as the meta knowledge on Mulch, you can trust it or not, but I have absolutely no reason to second guess myself there. I can't point at a specific thing for several reasons. Partially because I can't ask for permission from people I've talked to because this is an ongoing game. Partially because there isn't public verification of my ability to read him. The closest you're going to get is ETL, pun, and maybe Titus telling you that I can and do have accurate reads of 'difficult to read' players as early as my read on Mulch.

@everyone complaining that nothing is happening: there's a really simple solution to this. Fucking post. I'll check to see who has explicitly agreed to target BannedHydra tomorrow and out results in their first post tomorrow, but there's absolutely no lack of interactions to pursue. If you can't name a player who is in this game, there's something wrong and you probably need to figure out why they're so absent.

And before I forget,

UNVOTE:

At least til tomorrow.

Ah. Fair enough, and I'll call that a compliment so thanks.

It is Mastina, I think. Doesn't make a huge difference to me. I don't remember telling Mastina how to read me, but we hydra'd a couple times and have played together a few as well so maybe I said something I'm not remembering she's either misreading or misrepping. Don't really care if its someone else. I'm not gonna demand Pun tells me their identity but I'm definitely gonna spec.

I have played with Mulch probably 8 times. I successfully identified him as scum in 3, as town in 3, and pocketed him as eddiescum in 2. A couple of those games are debatable, but in general he's a person I can read, and any meta I have on him tells me you read him prematurely and if you're right and town it'll be fluke. He can be town for now, but

now, i've completely disproven your meta case, and i'm going to take it as you accept that because you didn't acknowledge me linking two recent games with 0 toxicity.

989 is a leading question because you've already heavily implied you know me. so answer it, and we can end this discussion before page 41.

Actually, this is something I can prove fairly easily without outing my identity. I did a site search on Eddie Cane. I didn't search for hydras and skirt skirt, so the results are not as inclusive as they could be, but I aimed for about ten games worth of references.
Scumgame; Eddie was nice.
Scumgame; Eddie established a strong presence and was a little nice. (Compared to Eddie as town, this is nice; you'll see what I mean.)
Scumgame; once Eddie came in, established a strong presence and was a little nice. (It shouldn't be that difficult to differentiate Eddie from KMD as they have very different styles. Once again, this might not look nice, but when you see the towngames you'll agree it is comparatively nice.)

Contrast:
Towngame; asshole immediately. He also didn't have nearly as strong of an entrance but that might just be my opinion.
Towngame; asshole albeit not immediately apparent. (Check out his "I like pissing you off" post; that is a town Eddie.)
Towngame; a bit of an asshole, and also not establishing a strong presence immediately.
Towngame; a huge asshole, and also not establishing a strong presence immediately.
Speaking of Team Mafia...
Towngame; immediately an asshole, and also not establishing a strong presence immediately.

Eddie as scum establishes a presence immediately and is nice; Eddie as town doesn't bother to establish a presence immediately and doesn't bother to be nice.

This is his pungame.

Okay, my turn to actually explain those examples instead of using them to fit a narrative.

I was not immediately an asshole in Smith Mafia. I did establish a strong presence immediately, I was half of the posts in the first 5 pages and was literally most of the content early. I was also not an asshole until LLD and Bulba, both of whom as scum, played up the thing YOU (if you're Mastina) told them to - my emotions, and by their complete garbage treatment of me I was an asshole back. Oh, and T-Bone is a thing, but my team told me to.

I was an asshole in Ether mafia. I also carried that game. Your call. You can have this one though.

WR mafia. Did not establish a presence, sure. I was an asshole, sure. You can have this one.

Touhou game. I established a presence immediately, and I was most certainly not an asshole. In fact, in postgame Elbirn apologized for being an asshole to me unprompted. I also carried this game.

I was definitely not an asshole in Boon game. I made friends that game, and KMD cited it as an example of why he respects me greatly as a player and was the precursor to us hydraing. I also established a strong presence immediately and consistently, where scum was very afraid of me and scared to post to me which is rare.

I was nice in the micro because it was super short and mostly my friends. I've been nice in every micro as both alignments I've played ever I think. Thinkbig game, NM game as examples to cite (ctrl f both in my ego to find them).

Yea I established a strong presence, and I was not nice. Lol. This game needed a firm hand. Unfortunately guilties and afk teammates = lolbye.

Um.... no? What the fuck do you mean "once Eddie came in"??? I actively lurked to avoid having a strong entrance LMAO huh. I was also definitely not nice.

Why are you being selective with games? There's plenty where I'm nice as town. Your examples aren't even good.


I do appreciate the effort though. Its fun to talk about past games

Question #1: Was the game run identically styled to a mafiascum game? That being, two week deadlines or something to that effect, majority lynch, etc.?

That's irrelevant, but one had week+ deadlines (Idunno how long we lynched before that) and one had a few days I think. Majority lynch.

Question #2: Was the game balanced/designed to the standards of a mafiascum game? Other sites e.g. Mafia Universe tend to run games which are by mafiascum standards hilariously scumsided.

Again, irrelevant and you should fucking know this as a metaing player I've meta'd MU players a lot and it translates, but yes, it is MS standards, the sites run by MS players and all the players are MS players so that shouldn't be shocking.

Question #3: Was the game entirely comprised of mafiascum players?

And the least relevant of all the irrelevant question, but YES anyways, I think every player in that game are/were MS players.

The reason why it isn't comparable is that the points I am raising are points specific to mafiascum meta.

And my point is you're trying to use my "assholeness" as my defining factor, when it isn't. Me being an asshole is when I'm not enjoying a playerlist. It is not because I'm town or scum.

As it is, I'd vote jj over pun because he is the more likely Eddie partner, but I think Eddie is more likely to flip scum. More to the point, I think that a lot of Eddie's posting today has been designed to cause town apathy, and we'll have a better chance of solving with him dead.

For example:

Here where he parrots my townreads and adds himself, because, and I'm literally quoting here, "I am a living god". There is no argument for him actually being conftown, just an attempt to put himself in the conftown pool while pulling Ank out of it because "she's spewed town hard, but not quite on the level above because OMGUS." The more I read that post, the more it looks like an attempt to establish himself as a universal townread for no reason.

His interactions with OTM are a mix of posts to keep them angry and off balance and buddying.

The one thing I find most damning though, is that he's tailoring his arguments to his needs. Check out:

The only person who's read me consistently is Elli and I still won my scum game against him, so this is just false. I know (most of?)my tells and I've never said someone could meta me because I dont rhink meta is how to sort me.

also, math,I would take jingle up too. you need 2 more votes + jingles. he specifically shouldn't want to lynch me here, hes good friends with elli and I am damn sure they've talked about me and elli is probably the closest on site to be able to reading me (not that he beat xcum!me;) )

Math, please explain the Eddie townread at your earliest convenience, because I'm just not seeing it. His reaction to the A50 wagon wasn't particularly town (he only voted there after momentum had swung towards it, and even then, jumped ship literally immediately for a Pun vanitywagon). (Yeah, I know, stones in glass houses.) Nor was A50's treatment of him particularly odd for scumbuddies, imo.

What a shocker, good player posts a lot of words and nobody questions it. No. Sometimes townies post shit arguments and shit cases on town, not Jingle. He's too good to get a pass for this. I'm going to respond to every fucking line of this post.

Spoiler: Posts devoted to "Meta is the wrong way to read me" from Eddie.

The crux of his case. Okay.

Ah. Fair enough, and I'll call that a compliment so thanks.

It is Mastina, I think. Doesn't make a huge difference to me. I don't remember telling Mastina how to read me, but we hydra'd a couple times and have played together a few as well so maybe I said something I'm not remembering she's either misreading or misrepping. Don't really care if its someone else. I'm not gonna demand Pun tells me their identity but I'm definitely gonna spec.

I have played with Mulch probably 8 times. I successfully identified him as scum in 3, as town in 3, and pocketed him as eddiescum in 2. A couple of those games are debatable, but in general he's a person I can read, and any meta I have on him tells me you read him prematurely and if you're right and town it'll be fluke. He can be town for now, but

Nothing in here says anything about the viability of meta-reading me

now, i've completely disproven your meta case, and i'm going to take it as you accept that because you didn't acknowledge me linking two recent games with 0 toxicity.

989 is a leading question because you've already heavily implied you know me. so answer it, and we can end this discussion before page 41.

Nothing in here says anything about the viability of meta-reading me

and if anything it implies I support trying to meta me because I attempted to engage.

Okay, my turn to actually explain those examples instead of using them to fit a narrative.

I was not immediately an asshole in Smith Mafia. I did establish a strong presence immediately, I was half of the posts in the first 5 pages and was literally most of the content early. I was also not an asshole until LLD and Bulba, both of whom as scum, played up the thing YOU (if you're Mastina) told them to - my emotions, and by their complete garbage treatment of me I was an asshole back. Oh, and T-Bone is a thing, but my team told me to.

I was an asshole in Ether mafia. I also carried that game. Your call. You can have this one though.

WR mafia. Did not establish a presence, sure. I was an asshole, sure. You can have this one.

Touhou game. I established a presence immediately, and I was most certainly not an asshole. In fact, in postgame Elbirn apologized for being an asshole to me unprompted. I also carried this game.

I was definitely not an asshole in Boon game. I made friends that game, and KMD cited it as an example of why he respects me greatly as a player and was the precursor to us hydraing. I also established a strong presence immediately and consistently, where scum was very afraid of me and scared to post to me which is rare.

I was nice in the micro because it was super short and mostly my friends. I've been nice in every micro as both alignments I've played ever I think. Thinkbig game, NM game as examples to cite (ctrl f both in my ego to find them).

Yea I established a strong presence, and I was not nice. Lol. This game needed a firm hand. Unfortunately guilties and afk teammates = lolbye.

Um.... no? What the fuck do you mean "once Eddie came in"??? I actively lurked to avoid having a strong entrance LMAO huh. I was also definitely not nice.

Why are you being selective with games? There's plenty where I'm nice as town. Your examples aren't even good.


I do appreciate the effort though. Its fun to talk about past games

Nothing in here says anything about the viability of meta-reading me

Don't want to quote the last one because its ugly to stack, but yes, nothing in there says anything about the viability of meta either. #982

if i was as good of a pun player as implied you wouldnt be able to read me off of 4 quick posts with 90% confidence

Nothing in here says anything about the viability of meta-reading me

... actually, you're technically right. I don't think you can meta read me off 4 posts. I don't think you can meta read anyone including fucking Creature off of 4 posts, but sure, you're technically right, the best kind of right.

The only person who's read me consistently is Elli and I still won my scum game against him, so this is just false. I know (most of?)my tells and I've never said someone could meta me because I dont rhink meta is how to sort me.

There you go.



So in conclusion, out of this 107 page game where I have had a relatively high activity, my "constantly repeating meta is not the way to sort me" is constantly repeated 6 times, and 5 of those don't even mention meta being the way to sort me. They don't refer to it at all.


Let's move on.

[eddie]

Spoiler: Posts devoted to "Meta is the wrong way to read me" from Eddie.

Apologies. I forgot to address this.

I can definitely grok your schadd_ argument, btw, pun, but cane seems pretty town since the replace.

That's the problem, actually. Eddie's not where you want to be right now, trust me. His content since coming in has been to establish a presence and challenge you for the position of town leader and direct the town away from the direction it needs to head towards.

Given his competency as both alignments, I can confidently say that this is the play he makes as pun. His approach as town is entirely different.

I can definitely grok your schadd_ argument, btw, pun, but cane seems pretty town since the replace.

That's the problem, actually. Eddie's not where you want to be right now, trust me. His content since coming in has been to establish a presence and challenge you for the position of town leader and direct the town away from the direction it needs to head towards.

Given his competency as both alignments, I can confidently say that this is the play he makes as pun. His approach as town is entirely different.

To further clarify.
Eddie's both a remarkably strong town player AND a remarkably strong pun player. As a result, you can quite well use a modified version of Burden of Proficiency without it being fallacious. If the direction Eddie Cane takes the town is not correct and he makes moves which are advantageous to the pun (e.g. the power play in challenging your status as the town leader), then he is pun; if Eddie were town, then his approach would be something else altogether. (I'm trying to figure out a way of describing the trait of his towngame without giving away my identity. Even though it's basically an open secret at this point, I'd rather not altogether confirm it explicitly.)

I guarantee you he's a backstabber. Honestly he's probably my strongest punread right now, stronger even than Titus.

And to add in further reiteration: part of what makes the move pun is that he

did

spend that time to establish his presence and make it "known" he is "town". He took the time to make you like him. That is one of his strongest puntells.

I can say with upwards of 90% confidence I know my meta here. That level of confidence is higher than almost any other player.

if i was as good of a pun player as implied you wouldnt be able to read me off of 4 quick posts with 90% confidence

At some point since Eddie Cane has joined the site, he himself has indicated that I know what I am talking about in regards to metaing him.

The only person who's read me consistently is Elli and I still won my scum game against him, so this is just false. I know (most of?)my tells and I've never said someone could meta me because I dont rhink meta is how to sort me.

Mulch? Hard meta. See every question Gork's asked me on the topic and my responses, cause frankly I'm tired of rehashing. You? I'm not. You're making town squawks (trying to sort the game and generally being useful) so you're not a good day 1 lynch. I don't have the ability to do an AP level player read on D1, and it's looking more and more like I'm going to have to meta dive you at some point when RL cools down since you disagree with pun's read on you.

I remember Gork asking you. I don't remember you answering satisfactorily. I know Mulch's meta and that wasn't enough to call him town in any metric. What's an AP level player read? Schadd thinks Pun is Mastina and I think its feasible but not worth getting into now idrc.

I'm comparing you to a player from way back so pun can tell me if the level of paranoia is warranted or not. Basically, AP was accurate as town and undetectable as scum. If that's a description of you too, I need to factor that into my reads so that I can avoid letting you slide into any of my blindspots.

Pun knows me pretty well. Like, probably top ten people of the site past and present to play with. I won't confirm or deny your suspicions, because I don't out alts on principle.

As far as the meta knowledge on Mulch, you can trust it or not, but I have absolutely no reason to second guess myself there. I can't point at a specific thing for several reasons. Partially because I can't ask for permission from people I've talked to because this is an ongoing game. Partially because there isn't public verification of my ability to read him. The closest you're going to get is ETL, pun, and maybe Titus telling you that I can and do have accurate reads of 'difficult to read' players as early as my read on Mulch.

@everyone complaining that nothing is happening: there's a really simple solution to this. Fucking post. I'll check to see who has explicitly agreed to target BannedHydra tomorrow and out results in their first post tomorrow, but there's absolutely no lack of interactions to pursue. If you can't name a player who is in this game, there's something wrong and you probably need to figure out why they're so absent.

And before I forget,

UNVOTE:

At least til tomorrow.

Ah. Fair enough, and I'll call that a compliment so thanks.

It is Mastina, I think. Doesn't make a huge difference to me. I don't remember telling Mastina how to read me, but we hydra'd a couple times and have played together a few as well so maybe I said something I'm not remembering she's either misreading or misrepping. Don't really care if its someone else. I'm not gonna demand Pun tells me their identity but I'm definitely gonna spec.

I have played with Mulch probably 8 times. I successfully identified him as scum in 3, as town in 3, and pocketed him as eddiescum in 2. A couple of those games are debatable, but in general he's a person I can read, and any meta I have on him tells me you read him prematurely and if you're right and town it'll be fluke. He can be town for now, but

now, i've completely disproven your meta case, and i'm going to take it as you accept that because you didn't acknowledge me linking two recent games with 0 toxicity.

989 is a leading question because you've already heavily implied you know me. so answer it, and we can end this discussion before page 41.

Actually, this is something I can prove fairly easily without outing my identity. I did a site search on Eddie Cane. I didn't search for hydras and skirt skirt, so the results are not as inclusive as they could be, but I aimed for about ten games worth of references.
Scumgame; Eddie was nice.
Scumgame; Eddie established a strong presence and was a little nice. (Compared to Eddie as town, this is nice; you'll see what I mean.)
Scumgame; once Eddie came in, established a strong presence and was a little nice. (It shouldn't be that difficult to differentiate Eddie from KMD as they have very different styles. Once again, this might not look nice, but when you see the towngames you'll agree it is comparatively nice.)

Contrast:
Towngame; asshole immediately. He also didn't have nearly as strong of an entrance but that might just be my opinion.
Towngame; asshole albeit not immediately apparent. (Check out his "I like pissing you off" post; that is a town Eddie.)
Towngame; a bit of an asshole, and also not establishing a strong presence immediately.
Towngame; a huge asshole, and also not establishing a strong presence immediately.
Speaking of Team Mafia...
Towngame; immediately an asshole, and also not establishing a strong presence immediately.

Eddie as scum establishes a presence immediately and is nice; Eddie as town doesn't bother to establish a presence immediately and doesn't bother to be nice.

This is his pungame.

Okay, my turn to actually explain those examples instead of using them to fit a narrative.

I was not immediately an asshole in Smith Mafia. I did establish a strong presence immediately, I was half of the posts in the first 5 pages and was literally most of the content early. I was also not an asshole until LLD and Bulba, both of whom as scum, played up the thing YOU (if you're Mastina) told them to - my emotions, and by their complete garbage treatment of me I was an asshole back. Oh, and T-Bone is a thing, but my team told me to.

I was an asshole in Ether mafia. I also carried that game. Your call. You can have this one though.

WR mafia. Did not establish a presence, sure. I was an asshole, sure. You can have this one.

Touhou game. I established a presence immediately, and I was most certainly not an asshole. In fact, in postgame Elbirn apologized for being an asshole to me unprompted. I also carried this game.

I was definitely not an asshole in Boon game. I made friends that game, and KMD cited it as an example of why he respects me greatly as a player and was the precursor to us hydraing. I also established a strong presence immediately and consistently, where scum was very afraid of me and scared to post to me which is rare.

I was nice in the micro because it was super short and mostly my friends. I've been nice in every micro as both alignments I've played ever I think. Thinkbig game, NM game as examples to cite (ctrl f both in my ego to find them).

Yea I established a strong presence, and I was not nice. Lol. This game needed a firm hand. Unfortunately guilties and afk teammates = lolbye.

Um.... no? What the fuck do you mean "once Eddie came in"??? I actively lurked to avoid having a strong entrance LMAO huh. I was also definitely not nice.

Why are you being selective with games? There's plenty where I'm nice as town. Your examples aren't even good.


I do appreciate the effort though. Its fun to talk about past games

Question #1: Was the game run identically styled to a mafiascum game? That being, two week deadlines or something to that effect, majority lynch, etc.?

That's irrelevant, but one had week+ deadlines (Idunno how long we lynched before that) and one had a few days I think. Majority lynch.

Question #2: Was the game balanced/designed to the standards of a mafiascum game? Other sites e.g. Mafia Universe tend to run games which are by mafiascum standards hilariously scumsided.

Again, irrelevant and you should fucking know this as a metaing player I've meta'd MU players a lot and it translates, but yes, it is MS standards, the sites run by MS players and all the players are MS players so that shouldn't be shocking.

Question #3: Was the game entirely comprised of mafiascum players?

And the least relevant of all the irrelevant question, but YES anyways, I think every player in that game are/were MS players.

The reason why it isn't comparable is that the points I am raising are points specific to mafiascum meta.

And my point is you're trying to use my "assholeness" as my defining factor, when it isn't. Me being an asshole is when I'm not enjoying a playerlist. It is not because I'm town or scum.

As it is, I'd vote jj over pun because he is the more likely Eddie partner, but I think Eddie is more likely to flip scum. More to the point, I think that a lot of Eddie's posting today has been designed to cause town apathy, and we'll have a better chance of solving with him dead.

For example:

Here where he parrots my townreads and adds himself, because, and I'm literally quoting here, "I am a living god". There is no argument for him actually being conftown, just an attempt to put himself in the conftown pool while pulling Ank out of it because "she's spewed town hard, but not quite on the level above because OMGUS." The more I read that post, the more it looks like an attempt to establish himself as a universal townread for no reason.

His interactions with OTM are a mix of posts to keep them angry and off balance and buddying.

The one thing I find most damning though, is that he's tailoring his arguments to his needs. Check out:

The only person who's read me consistently is Elli and I still won my scum game against him, so this is just false. I know (most of?)my tells and I've never said someone could meta me because I dont rhink meta is how to sort me.

also, math,I would take jingle up too. you need 2 more votes + jingles. he specifically shouldn't want to lynch me here, hes good friends with elli and I am damn sure they've talked about me and elli is probably the closest on site to be able to reading me (not that he beat xcum!me;) )

Math, please explain the Eddie townread at your earliest convenience, because I'm just not seeing it. His reaction to the A50 wagon wasn't particularly town (he only voted there after momentum had swung towards it, and even then, jumped ship literally immediately for a Pun vanitywagon). (Yeah, I know, stones in glass houses.) Nor was A50's treatment of him particularly odd for scumbuddies, imo.

As it is, I'd vote jj over pun because he is the more likely Eddie partner, but I think Eddie is more likely to flip scum. More to the point,

I think that a lot of Eddie's posting today has been designed to cause town apathy

,

and we'll have a better chance of solving with him dead.

And now you have a confident scumread on me. I'd love to see the nonexistent progression towards that quoted Jingle! I'll reply to your examples after, but first, let me quote stuff.

To the underlined: as a team mafia host and spec, you couldn't possibly think this is true if I'm town. So, this is just a fancy restatement of Eddie's scum.

To the bold: this'll be fun.
My most recent scumgames: viewtopic.php?f=51&t=76098 - ended last night, perfect scum win. I had I believe the highest thread activity out of anyone, and if you scroll through you'll see I'm stirring activity at any part.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=75047 - pretty pathetic performance despite I think every single player saying I played amazing, a perfect town win is a perfect town win (fuck you rb getting me guiltied on your trash kill xd). Highest activity, any time the thread was slow I prod for activity.
Skipping an all hydra upick because lolmemes, viewtopic.php?f=84&t=73125 - probably the best example. Its only 19 pages so you can actually click through this game if you want. I start activity at every possible corner, and actively try to get people to post. Highest postcount.
viewtopic.php?f=53&t=72998 - Last one I'll bother with, again, I was V/LA D1 and when I came back I was the most dominating presence in the thread. I actively asked everyone questions and was the complete stereotypical town player.

Am I saying that any of that makes me town? No, as town I'm town leadery too when its a game that I (a) care about the playerlist, could've been true for here, but (b) am also respected in, and the amount of shit Pun (possible scum) / Titus (this one's my fault too) / Jingle (probably scum so its fine) / Ank are giving me is insane. Irrelevant, though. The point is that causing apathy is firmly NOT my scum style, has never ONCE been, because I don't believe in winning by lurking out. Its the same reason I as scum will also always hammer over a no lynch - I don't believe in winning off of town apathy. So, there's a great crux case. But sure, don't take my cited word for it, lets see your case!

Here where he parrots my townreads and adds himself, because, and I'm literally quoting here, "I am a living god".

I haven't seen something as stupid as you trying to push that as AI since Quick, so thanks. OTM, Titus, Pun, JJ should all be able to confirm thats my style, but that isn't "parrotting" your townreads, that's me stating who's town and why because some people (aka most of the town which YOU acknowledge) are havhing issues accepting them as town. I explained them more concisely than you did.

There is no argument for him actually being conftown, just an attempt to put himself in the conftown pool

And there was no argument for that, hence why I just gave meme reasons... lol.

while pulling Ank out of it because "she's spewed town hard, but not quite on the level above because OMGUS." The more I read that post, the more it looks like an attempt to establish himself as a universal townread for no reason.

How does pulling Ank out of your conf!town pool relate to myself being a universal townread?

How do "living god" "schadd flaked" "one right one wrong" "mod" "role pm" try to establish us as universal town in the slightest. Lol. At. All. And I've actively town cased myself IE in Partition mafia, I didn't do that here because I know I'm not a universal TR.

His interactions with OTM are a mix of posts to keep them angry and off balance and buddying.

How are posts not in response to or referencing somebody tailored to making said person angry?

Calling Ank stupid when Math isn't around is me trying to keep him angry? Seriously? That's the shit angle you're going for?

And as for buddying...

being willing to vote you is buddying? loool

More like, Jingle's pushing the only one of two people pushing him because the other one will never get an traction for a lynch due to who they are?

[eddie]

The one thing I find most damning though, is that he's tailoring his arguments to his needs.

Well if its the most damning this must be exciting!

The only person who's read me consistently is Elli and I still won my scum game against him, so this is just false. I know (most of?)my tells and I've never said someone could meta me because I dont rhink meta is how to sort me.

Yes. Elli is the person who has the best history of reading me on MS. Tailored to my argument of Mastina not being able to read me.

also, math,I would take jingle up too. you need 2 more votes + jingles. he specifically shouldn't want to lynch me here, hes good friends with elli and I am damn sure they've talked about me and elli is probably the closest on site to be able to reading me (not that he beat xcum!me;) )

So to be clear: Elli being able to read me is the first quote. The second quote is a different argument, in response to a different thing, that is generally related to something.

Okay. My arguments are "tailored". Just like every argument ever is tailored. That is literally how one argues.


In conclusion: I am impressed with your most damning points! You explained how debating works.

[eddie]

Math, please explain the Eddie townread at your earliest convenience, because I'm just not seeing it. His reaction to the A50 wagon wasn't particularly town (he only voted there after momentum had swung towards it, and even then, jumped ship literally immediately for a Pun vanitywagon). (Yeah, I know, stones in glass houses.) Nor was A50's treatment of him particularly odd for scumbuddies, imo.

Before I moved, Titus had more momentum, partially because of you.

[eddie]

you have spent 5 posts refusing to answer a simple question while not progressing the game. I'm pretty sure that's more obstructive than a reply to a question that was already being answered.

Ankamius. This:

Ank

What happens to your reads if JJH flips town? or Eddie flips town?

is me trying to engage you. Stop complaining about the thread being inactive and "shutting down conversations". That is all you are doing. Get your ego out of your ass and play mafia. I get it. I insulted you. You don't want to work with me because I'm a shit player. We have a wincon. I'm siteflaking so you don't need to deal with me in the future.

[eddie]

Lol

You are making the type of cases I do when I'm caught scum, so

And I don't have a "caught scum" play. Mini normal 1950 (?) hosted by Mastina. I was guiltied d2, fought for 30 pages and it ended in a scum win with all the associations I forged. One of those above games I linked I was guiltied d2, and it was not arguable, so I just bascially resigned. But I didn't play like "caught scum", I resigned because I'm good enough to know when to throw in my hand and not waste time or energy. I don't care how you play as scum, I have a damn high scum winrate and it isn't from "making the type of cases you do when you're caught scum".

I'll stop typing in bold to you when you actually treat me like a human being and engage with me.

[eddie]

Eddie is mad because now there's three people who have caught how team.

Seriosuly. Stop.

[eddie]

We lynch Pun, Cop Eddie.

Or if you prefer we can go the other way around Eddie.

Math is likely a townbeard or scum.

This is no longer my first choice, but I'd do it. We are unlikely to have the numbers though.

Titus, do you remember the open I ragequit because you were so fucking certain Math couldn't be scum when they faked a cop inno on you despite 50 pages of controversial evidence? Math is town here. I'm sure there.

Can you talk to me about Jingle?

[eddie]

I'd rather decide with my townreads, thanks.

And if your townreads are leading you astray?

You say you are confident it is Eddie and Pun.

I am telling you put your money where your mouth is.

If it’s a town flip we cop Titus lynch Jingle.

If it isn’t a townflip we go with majority plan.

It’s the best of both worlds.

And you need to accept Titus is just town. Please. Doesn't matter if Jingle is scum. We aren't wasting a cop on Titus.

[eddie]

BTW Titus

What is pun's plan?

To be silent while Eddie/Mark carry him?

Ugh. I do deserve this from how hard I pushed you (especially if Mastina is town), but I don't understand why you regressed. :/

[eddie]

Pun is a meticulous planner. That's not the plan.

Mindsets like this are why ScuMastina is basically a god of scumplay. Stop trying to do a bad meta read.

If Mastina is town, that only really leaves room for a JJ / Jingle or a JJ / Nos team. Told ya, I don't oppose a jingle lynch, but you don't get my vote supporting it until you treat me like a human and if you don't want to do that that's fine it has maj rn anyways.

[eddie]

So unless you think Punreader is scum with me (or maybe Nosferatu, maaaaaaaybe Jingle), then Punreader isn't scum.

But both of those are viable, lol. I do understand your above points (except really JJ but eh), though its just a more wordy way of removing partners that weren't in the lynchpool anyways.

[eddie]

btw

Pun+me scumteam still runs into the issue of why I would swing day 2 from two juicy mislynches onto my scumpartner while continuously shielding those two juicy mislynches.

Nobody is calling you scum. Even I told you I know you're probably town.

*ignore the Blade

[eddie]

Glad that's how you operate. It's not how I operate. Find the most likely scum, then lynch them. Let the votes say what it is. I could argue this meta game but it's wifom.

QFT

[eddie]

I've been avoiding this game because I still need to catch up and there are still more things happening affecting the amount of time I have in which to do this

This has been jjh's continued presence in the game.

Continuing to do nothing.

Because we are letting him do nothing.

He will continue to do nothing until we no longer allow him to do nothing.

jjh is deliberately avoiding giving game content here.

He replaced in, so that indicated he had a desire to do something, but since coming in has done nothing. This is the hallmark of landing into a pun slot.

Is JJ/Jingle viable? Or is it more likely JJ / Nos to you?

Yes, this is ignoring your current preference of JJ / Eddie.

[eddie]

the most protown thing I can do is hammer a lynch at EOD so we have one

It's a plurality game, which means the largest wagon when day ends is the lynch.

This is why eddie's vote on me was suspect for the record. It placed me as the lead wagon above jjh, ensuring that at deadline, I would be lynched over jjh.

And its no longer there, because I'm fine with a JJ lynch but Jingle is better.

[eddie]

Blah blah words words

Jingle Titus.

I posted where the spewage occured.

Blah blah fucks given zero since no one listens

Elaborate prod dodge

Its not Titus Math. Find the actual partner pls. <3 buddied.

[eddie]

no acknowledgment that your case is completely bullshit? cool cool.

(ye lynch jj cop jingle is cool I'll vote jj tomorrow if it's not hammered yet)

[eddie]

I've been avoiding this game because I still need to catch up and there are still more things happening affecting the amount of time I have in which to do this

This has been jjh's continued presence in the game.

Continuing to do nothing.

Because we are letting him do nothing.

He will continue to do nothing until we no longer allow him to do nothing.

jjh is deliberately avoiding giving game content here.

He replaced in, so that indicated he had a desire to do something, but since coming in has done nothing. This is the hallmark of landing into a pun slot.

Is JJ/Jingle viable? Or is it more likely JJ / Nos to you? Yes, this is ignoring your current preference of JJ / Eddie.

You're asking about a scenario I find largely pointless to speculate about.

My assumption is jj/eddie.
That is my working punteam.

Any statement about hypothetical other teams diminishes from my focus. I believe jj/eddie is the solve. It's not only because I see that as the most likely team. It's not only because you are the two players I most strongly punread. It is also because I simply don't even

see

other teams as being viable.

If the team is not jj/eddie as is my working assumption, then I will cross the bridge of reevaluation when I come to it. Not a moment sooner. Entertaining another punteam at this point is pointless.

why are you being like this

[eddie]

houh

s

[eddie]

when can I start being an asshole again

if u must, can u direct it at me instead of eddie

s

[eddie]

i've generally been reading the thread but (and i dunno if it shows) it's been hard for me to harness sorting energy

a lot of content of late has been people explaining to our slot that it is scum

i dunno what to ask people and we have 2 mislynches + cop stuff to sort 5 slots

i am fine to lynch jj as i have been

probably not gonna hang out much in postgame sorry xoxo

s

[eddie]

VOTE: HAMMER: NOSFERATU

maybe that'll be u next time jj...

[eddie]

Activity is not the opposite of apathy, which you damn well know.

So what about the fact I'm actively asking questions? And they aren't opposites, but there's a HUGE correlation considering what apathy causes is inactivity...

Your passive criticism of my plans and discounting of them as stupid stirs up activity.

Was this meant in a scum case you have planned for Mathblade tomorrow?

(I've agreed to mass target and supported it every day so :shrug:)

It also causes town to not want to read that activity.

oh look, its a life lesson talk.

Apathy. You know, not caring about the game. The exact thing repeatedly calling Ank stupid has been doing.

It was one night, I'm not doing it every day. If people are acting stupid I'll call them stupid, purely in the scope of a game. She has stated a 100% confident read on a pairing I know is 50% town at least and refused my many attempts to engage, why is that something I should respect?

Your attempt to put yourself in the locktown pool and outright statement that you had 4 locktown players and only needed one more for the game to be an autowin is 100% trying to insert yourself into the locktown pool.

And from my POV I am in the lock town pool, yes. So is everyone else who's town. That's the point of meme reasons.

Any attempt to argue otherwise is too stupid to come from town you, therefore, scum.

I thought scum!me was smarter than town!me? My scum game is known for replicating my town game, sometimes to a fault and lynching partners when I shouldn't. If scum!me says something like that, its because I mean it. Usually.

Your responses about how the one player in this game who has any real meta experience with you can't read you are 100% you talking about how meta isn't the way to read you, but in your defense I did naked quote them and not explain WHY each of them is an argument against your ability to be read by meta, but if someone who isn't you needs the breakdown, I can oblige.

Meta is the way to read everyone if done properly, so thats invalid. Its not something anyone here is seemingly capable of, particularly Mastina.

What I can point out is the conflicting stances of "I can't be read by meta" which, you know, you just admitted to holding, and "Jingle, who is a player I have no firsthand experience with, who has no firsthand experience with me, and has the majority of his secondhand experience as a result of an event where A. my focus was on rules and B. there were more than 80 people involved." which is the basis for your 'scumread' on me.

My basis for a scumread on you is how you've driven antitown direction this whole time, you've basically got to choose any lynch you want and we only hit scum without your support, you've organized the plan and you're still alive not pushing scum. Your 100% certainty on scum!nos is completely gone and you aren't even addressing it, and now you're completely confident a townie is scum. BoP my dude. Call it respect for you. And Jingle, stop with that bullshti about team mafia, our team was involved in mod discussions many times and y ou specifically commented on me in the dead thread among other things, you damn well know you were following along. Math probably does too, as part of the TM chat but he won't talk about it /sigh. You analyze games from dead threads all the time that's most of your mafia experience nowadays so don't give me that bullshit.

[eddie]

[OTM] is NOT the player I'd go out of my way to buddy andpocket.

Who WOULD you try to pocket here?

The player who had explicitly been warned about it by pun?
ETL or Titus, who have been largely absent today?
Nos?
Pun or Ank, both of whom are suspicious about you?
JJ, who is probably your scumbuddy?
Clearly, OTM, the player who is tunneled on me and the only person hard townreading you is THE correct choice to get on your side. And scum you IS smart enough to know you need to get one of the townbloc on your side in order to win.

You or ETL. The good players with influence. Math and I have an awful history we have literally never worked together and done well. You know that, though, you specced Beneath the Mask.

[eddie]

But yes, I'm doing my best to "get the townbloc on my side to win" by rapidly insulting Ank and causing apathy. yA got me.

[eddie]

ank is sure that the team is myself and jj to the point she wont even consider a world where I'm town. lol. but it's okay, jingles open wolfing now which makes nos town. either jingle and pun or jingle and jj.

Here's the thing

ETL and Nosferatu I've gone into great lengths to explain why they're town
You don't understand Pun's and my history if you think I'm wrong about them; I can guarantee you that a lot of what I'm saying about how they'd interact with me is dead on the money and the rest can be deduced from there. It would require some sort of gambit in order for Pun to be scum, or maybe me getting outright snowed by somebody (which is not reasonable either unless it's Pun+ETL, which like I said is laughable).
OTM I'm willing to trust is town from meta cases, plus I don't see how he'd play the way he is as scum.
Titus I was already townleaning, but the cop results make it more likely she's town
Jingle has the ETL-read going for him, and really, except for the awkwardly timed defense of A50 and attacking me at the same time at the end of yesterday, I don't see much scum intent behind what he's saying. Even that is questionable with how his tone towards me shifted so dramatically overnight.

That leaves you and Gork-slot.

Gork-slot has pinged me consistently since I replaced in and jjh has done nothing to look town.
Your slot has been mostly null, but like I stated before, the parts that give me a read at all look significantly scummier than the rest of your slot's ISO.

It's basically PoE.

Two slots have never looked town.
There's other stuff about your play today that pings me (tunnel on Pun's slot, increasingly erratic behavior, tone shifts), but I don't really feel like going into too much detail about it because odds are it's going to devolve into a rant that will inevitably get me force replaced since I'm probably not going to be able to resist making really mean snarky responses to the insults.

So

I don't really understand why I should be considering a world where you're town since FMPOV, I have the game essentially solved since I have seven townreads and two scumreads. I need my reads tested because I don't understand why I should be reconsidering without my reads being proven wrong.

You should be considering it because you don't have the game solved. But, I can't give a realistic argument for JJ town because I don't particularly think JJ's town. If JJ does flip town, are you going to continue to tunnel me tomorrow? This is really the quintessential question.

[eddie]

But generally I try to look at what the mistakes in the game were and fix them; it's the main reason I think I have a good read on when my reads are good and when they're not in my towngames. This game in particular definitely feels like I have at least one more scum pegged if not both, and like I said, I want to test my reads before I go willy nilly restructuring them because that's the same mindset that made me start scumreading the worst in Necromancer.

I'm not trying to make the game miserable for you, sorry if that's happening.

I understand not reevaluating before you're proven wrong and I hate when people ask long ass open ended questions like "who's the scum team if x flips town" and etc. Way more effort than reasonable. The above question is my concern now, because JJ is getting lynched today ATP unless Titus does some god convincing.

[eddie]

you have spent 5 posts refusing to answer a simple question while not progressing the game. I'm pretty sure that's more obstructive than a reply to a question that was already being answered.

Ankamius. This:

Ank

What happens to your reads if JJH flips town? or Eddie flips town?

is me trying to engage you. Stop complaining about the thread being inactive and "shutting down conversations". That is all you are doing. Get your ego out of your ass and play mafia. I get it. I insulted you. You don't want to work with me because I'm a shit player. We have a wincon. I'm siteflaking so you don't need to deal with me in the future.

I shut that down because I was specifically trying to engage OTM in a way that would potentially let us sync up in the future (and hint: the reason my question was different than yours was because OTM's reads are vastly different from everyone else's and mine are either similar or exact to the majority of people actively playing right now) and you came in at the middle essentially mocking it.

So... what is the answer to that question? Essentially the only possible answer to that question: I'll reassess when my solve is proven wrong. I fought against this point not because of the question itself,

but the timing and tone of it.

I was mocking it, yea, I'm petty.

But, I did also want an answer. I don't really want a long explanation, just a quick where you're gonna look and whatnot.

[eddie]

You have a way out in the form of a Punreader-lynch. Then you kill me tonight and the eddie/jjh scumteam theory holds a lot less water in the collective minds because it's both untested and less likely to be pushed because both the slots pushing it are dead. This has changed since then with Jingle also syncing with us, but this mindset and approach is consistent with how you've played the day out regarding both your tunnel on Pun and how you've went about addressing the cases on you.

This is a losing play. With how my slot and JJ are perceived in this town we'd never win from there; this plan essentially relies on mislynching Nos and Jingle in succession with a town full of people that think one or both of us are scum and one or both of them are town.

THAT'S what I'm referring to. In this type of situation, I'd do whatever I damn well can do in order to weaken the foundation of the scumreads on me even without a foundation for the cases being wrong. It's probably the simplest way of catching scum; scum will do what they have to do to win.

You should read how Wisdom threw in Partition mafia. He's a player I like and think is reasonably competent, but in that particular game he HARD threw and its because of the same bad mindset you're doing now. A lot of it was him ruling out scum teams with multiple scum alive, always an awful idea. Just an ISO skim of him is enough to get my point across.

So no, my statement was just a simplification. I read through your entire rebuttal to Jingle's case, and what I'm seeing is poking at the vagueness of it and outright misconstruing others. I don't think Jingle's case is especially convincing personally, but your response to it is just scum-indicative and survivalistic.

Its really not scum-indicative, and everything one does in mafia is survivalistic, its whatever alignment survives the longest lmao.

I responded to every single sentence of his post, want to show me the responses you don't like?

[eddie]

for me it's the replacements, and pun's novel-posts. the holiday weekend took my mind out of the game, and upon returning there were a shitton of posts i didn't care about reading. and since then i've just kind of been... like.. who the fuck is who... i don't remember who i was scumreading... it would take quite a bit of effort to figure that out and do i wanna/do i have the time? i suppose the proper thing for me to do would be to replace but i dont think i necessarily have to.. if i can get back in the game here.

you can not replace. please.

don't think jingle is scum. 5% possibility he could be, but meh, not interested in lynching him.

who's more likely between us, him or I?

(and no, I'm not gonna retort with "100% confident he's scum him or me" bullshit)

pun knows their posts cause apathy and thus keep doing it, and using OTM to further the effect is exactly what i would expect from scum punreader.

I don't think this is AI for Pun.

I do still think Pun's scum, but since you also hard TR Ank (I think?) and don't think the team is Ank Pun you need to work through that with Ank.

concerned that titus is completely MIA but i suppose so have i been.

Its more just annoying than AI I believe despite what OTM thinks. I don't know the specific numbers but I think those cop results alllll being duplicate is a REALLY strong indicator of town.

i dont mind copping jjh tonight if that's the big contention. lets lynch pun and cop jjh.

this is also agreeable, but us 3 aren't enough votes so good luck with that.

[eddie]

Can someone quote the post with all the night results compiled? IDR where it is.

[eddie]

Oh, and so there's no confusion at night:

If we end up lynching JJ we are copping Jingle.

If we end up lynching Pun we are copping JJ

These are the plans right now, follow them if there's a random lolhammer. We have about what a day left?

[eddie]

I need Ank to respond to my last page before I do anything

[eddie]

otm is being fucking dumb as fuck and seriously antitown. what am i supposed to do to change that?? the only way otm is scum is if jingle is and i'm not crossing that bridge until i get more data tomorrow

isnt jingle and otm already unviable for how otm is pushing jingle

[eddie]

UNVOTE: jjh
VOTE: punreader

I'm done, let's get the only town cohesion out of here so we can lose. This town is too dysfunctional by this point and I'm not going to bother trying to get everyone to sync up anymore.

Stop ignoring me its extremely frustrating

[eddie]

the only town cohesion

??? really?

lmao

[eddie]

Ok, here's where I am at. We got 3 things that must be solved..jj pun otm. Eddie sorts himself based on these flips.

jj has not done much
OTM is either a clone of civilization Math or scum. We cop this and hopefully reduce the noise since he is not scumhunting.
If Pun flips town, we lynch JJ (barring otm guilty, then we lynch the day after).
If Pun flips scum, any doubt on OTM lynch it.

This is a pretty fair place to be,

I really hope you and OTM will eventually learn that if you can't read each other after the 20+ games you've played toegether its just not going to happen. I've seen you two be wrong on each other pretty much every occurance.

[eddie]

My basis for a scumread on you is how you've driven antitown direction this whole time, you've basically got to choose any lynch you want and we only hit scum without your support, you've organized the plan and you're still alive not pushing scum. Your 100% certainty on scum!nos is completely gone and you aren't even addressing it, and now you're completely confident a townie is scum. BoP my dude. Call it respect for you. And Jingle, stop with that bullshti about team mafia, our team was involved in mod discussions many times and y ou specifically commented on me in the dead thread among other things, you damn well know you were following along. Math probably does too, as part of the TM chat but he won't talk about it /sigh. You analyze games from dead threads all the time that's most of your mafia experience nowadays so don't give me that bullshit.

I will outright say that I probably spent the most time reading Team Mafia out of everyone on this site. There was roughly a month ( I think it may have been exactly 3 weeks, actually) where I was horribly behind because my computer exploded all over my desk, but at every other point in the event I read EVERY SINGLE POST MULTIPLE TIMES, FOR EVERY GAME, INCLUDING THE TIEBREAKER. I also was not particularly looking at alignment indicative things, because the thing I signed up to do for Team Mafia was help Elli with rules and balance the games. I went back through every game whenever anything toxic came up to see if it had already been addressed, where, how, with what response and whether anyone involved had previously been warned. I checked all of the various PT's (That I had access to) whenever any big rules discussion happened to gauge the level of impact on gamestates. I was pretty much the word on what action was taken when Elli wasn't around, and I can't think of a single instance where Elli didn't take my advice. I didn't attempt to read the alignments of every player in the games, because I didn't care enough about them after having to wade through the toxicity so many times.

This is also fairly publically verifiable, by looking at the dead thread. I trolled exclusively in that thread, because I legitimately couldn't remember which teams were town and scum in which games. I think we even mentioned in that thread that my guess for the outcome of the tournament was that it would be a scumteam sweep due to modkills.

That was my input to team mafia. Expecting me to be able to read you off of that is either A. Insane or B. A lie. Similarly, of the people on site, I can think of Elli and Mastina who you could have talked to and come up with this level of estimation of my play. If it was Elli, A. he's never played in a game with me, and B. I think he's read exactly one of my completed games. If it was mastina,

My reversal on Nos is all about trusting Ank and scumreading you/JJ.

So you did read Team Mafia, yes, though I still think you probably spent less time than me (I actively followed 5 games and had to formulate thoughts for my team on all of them). You might not be able to meta me, though I would really think Elli and yourself would have discussed me. I was more going for you knowing how proficient I am as a player.

I've never really talked about the competence of other players with Mastina. Elli's only mention of you in our talks was basically just saying you're too inactive to valuate your skill. I have my opinion of you and ETL from all of the random games I read/skim, and unless you want to deny that you're a high to top tier player I would not pursue this further.

[eddie]

but Jingle's read comes from mulch

and I concur Mulch was probtown, and A50 kinda spews that slot hard town too.

[eddie]

for two people who think so much alike, it's weird they can't read each other?

Oh so we're open about Mark being Math ok. It's not really wierd. I read based off agendas and Math always throws an anti-town fit if not in the townblock. So I just put them on ignore until some other method arises of sorting thrm when it happens.

yea he's outed, alt slipped or something.

titus, why are you so convinced jingle's town? almost all of his play has been pushing one of us or Nos.

[eddie]

one of us or Nos.

who's "one of us"

also Nos has high chance of being scum... you don't think so..?

If Jingle's scum, no he doesn't.

If Jingle's town, definitely.

[eddie]

vc

Votecount 1.11

Draynth (1)

Almost50 ,

Porkens (1)

Draynth ,

Titus (4)

Ginngie , Stop Getting Banned Again , Punreader , EspeciallyTheLies ,

Punreader (4)

Nosferatu , Titus , Gorkington , eddie ,

Not Voting (3)

PenguinPower , Jingle , Porkens ,

Day one deadline is Wednesday May 9, 6 PM PST. (expired on 2018-05-09 18:00:00)

With 13 alive it takes 7to lynch!

[/size]

This tells me Pun is scum...?

this tells me the saem thing

and Titus thinks Pun is scum so is that not the point? lol

[eddie]

Eddie what is Jingle's case on you?

bad

i responded to the whole thing every single line so m y iso will let you see it

[eddie]

I ask again, can someone quote the sheet with all of the actions and results please?

[eddie]

Eddie what is Jingle's case on you?

bad

i responded to the whole thing every single line so m y iso will let you see it

BLAAAAAAAAAAAH

gimme the gist - the core points.

i'm creating apathy intentionally today

uh

i'm contradicting myself by telling people not to meta me and to meta me (?)

i'm tailoring arguments (because tailoring arguments is scum indicative!)

[eddie]

Updated inventory:

Punreads:

Mulch (imagine a gap between here and below)
schadd_
EspeciallyTheLies (might be one lower)
Titus
Gorkington

The in-betweens:

Porkens

Copper forged Friends:

KidAm
Ginngie
Almost50
Jingle
PenguinPower
Stop Getting Banned Again

Still loosely ordered strongest punread to strongest copper-forged-friend-read.

lol

[eddie]

you know deadlines tomorrow right

[eddie]

@Pun: I'm skeptical about the Mulch SR, although I admit I haven't read shit (and don't intend to in the next 48 hours). The thing is I started with him as a SR because he used that same tactic in the competition (him and Fire made the game unreadable), so when hye said he was trying to outpost the hydra it made me think they were scum together. Then it hit me that he could not have convinced the whole of a 21-headed hydra to do this (and besides I've been in a large hydra and have an idea about where the shitposting comes from), so he was Scum and the hydra was null.

Now I came on to check on the activity and it seems he has less than one third of the count he should have been aiming for if he really wanted to outpost them, so I have doubts about his being scum based on the much-lower-than-expected-from-Scum-Mulch post count.

Can you please convince me with your case on him (or point me to where you provided one if you did)?

this is a weird post

[eddie]

Eddie (hydra of Eddie Cane and schadd_) replaces schadd_ effective immediately.

Oh, good

A decent scuumhunter

welcome to the jungle

[eddie]

Why is Titus a wagon exactly?

Mostly a combination of tunneling one of the most town slots, a lack of townposting, and a lazier approach to the game than expected.

Jingle hasn't been WKing you though?

[eddie]

Gives zero explanation of reads, engages no one (I mean, he says I'm scum but... does... nothing... to talk to me at all??) Nor does he make any attempt at supporting his reads. His pun vote is curious. Makes me wonder if I'm wrong there, and should vote nos instead...

I'm not going to say I've made every single read as clear as day or whatever, but a lot of them are kind of implied... If I criticize a post and then I later say that I think the slot that made the post is scum, I would think it's pretty obvious how I got there. I'm not really the type to systematically pump out reads with supporting evidence like I'm writing a middle-school essay, so this comes up pretty often and I feel like I have to read this post every game I play (oddly enough never in a scum game despite the fact that I'm fairly sure that I've actually gotten so shitty at town that they're basically identical) so I suppose I'll just make a slightly longer post than usual since I'm kinda tired, both in the physical sense and tired of endlessly having to respond to this. And while I digress, I'm aware that I could just change my playstyle to avoid having to do this, probably better my town game, and such and such, I guess I'm just stubborn and I feel special by doing this, and since I'm a hormonal teenager, being a special snowflake is much better than being an efficient one; although this is a poor analogy because what the fuck does being an efficient snowflake mean? I talk too much when given the motive and opportunity. Anyhow back to the point a pretty common way of playing the game would pushing out a readslist something to the effect of the playlist printed vertically, with a short (or long, depends on your definition and the verbosity of the player) paragraph that basically explains not only a general feel they get from a player, but also why said player is where they are in the list, maybe some posts for supplementary evidence, and the occasional reaction image. I used to do this a lot, and I also criticized players like ranger who literally just posted a page number and an accompanying readslist (with nothing other than stratified brackets mind you); in fact in a game a few years ago I remember writing a somewhat unnecessarily aggressive condemnation of Ranger's playstyle and how difficult it was to read her because of it. I've since come around to that playstyle and I even have adopted parts of it, including the readslist formatting that I once oh, so despised, and a big reason for that is that since doing so I feel like the style of posting a super bloated readslist with proper explanations and evidence followed by a vote on the scum read with either the biggest wagon or the lowest trustworthiness isn't a particularly townie thing to do and thus loses a bit of the reasoning for why you would do so. One of the reasons that format has become so widespread on this site and the (dead) one that I came from, is the idea that it is the way to state your reads the clearest, and while it does do that, the nature of the list is such that it's rather hard to replicate several times over the course of a game, and just devolves in quality as time goes on. I've observed that most people make about one or two large posts like that in a game, usually day one or two, and the rest of the game is spend with much smaller posts in comparison with a lot less detail. It gives itself to a style of playing where your posts are just devolved into comments and referring to that big wall you made on D1, until you make your next one on D4 or D5, which doesn't really carry the same weight and is often a hyper-focused case on one player in particular. With the whole list revolving around cramming as much evidence as possible to support as many reads as you can manage, the game doesn't flow as organically to me and I feel like I end up playing where I'm forming reads on a player and then looking for evidence to support that, which became a very unnatural process to me, and I felt like my town game was suffering. An additional reason as to why I don't do that any more, is that I like to post one or two readslists per day if I'm not too lazy, and simple stratified brackets are the simplest way to do so. Over the course of the game, posting multiple readslists makes an ISO easier to follow in a read-sense, which is what I feel most people (at least I am) are looking for in the first place; which I suppose makes me somewhat guilty of pushing my preferences onto others. I suppose I'm just giving my reasoning for doing that anyway. While they do leave out a lot of information, as I said in a post before and what was supposed to be the main idea of this entire rant was that I think that a lot of the information in a lot of readslists are often superfluous and bloating to make the post seem "meaty" enough. Like how much can you possibly say about one person that you couldn't say by just quoting posts and giving your opinion on those posts directly. My biggest problem, I've noticed this is both in real life and in this game, is that I have apparently very different ideas of what can and cannot be inferred than other people, and so my train of thought seems to be incomplete to others, and I don't exactly know how to fix this, and so it ends up where I say less than what was expected, but since it was expected the first response isn't to ask me, but rather to assume that the thought itself is incomplete, which I can't fault someone for. I'm rambling, but back to my initial description of the usual M.O. as a middle-school essay, you can see how well I'm doing with staying on point in this rant. It's actually kind of presumptuous for me to even call what I've been doing a "style" since it's pretty much me just being lazy. Another reason that I am reluctant to admit is that I admire people who can speak laconically, since I can't really do that and I'm always just about 3 seconds to launching into a 30 minute tirade in response to a yes-no question, so I try to limit myself to one-liners, but it often functions as a post-restriction in the sense that it just obfuscates what I'm thinking at times, but if I just posted what I was thinking in a stream-of-consciousness way that one would expect to be clearer, I still can't stop myself from making what could only be perceived as incomplete thoughts and random jumps, which would just be subjecting everyone I play with to essentially reading Finnegans Wake every post, which I think would be annoying. Since I'm just personally unwilling to even remember how I was going to finish that first point of yours (it's a miracle I even remember that this was in response to something), I still haven't delved into the second point, which I also encounter fairly often, that I don't engage anyone. I do find this point somewhat untruthful, since I think that I actually have engaged with at least one person this game (I'm not going to lie and say it's more than one), one thing that I never do is engage my scumreads, and this is because most of the time I don't really have anything to say to them. To be completely sure I'm not even entirely sure why everyone else engages their scumreads. My initial assumption would be to defeat them in some sort of verbal warfare, but that just devolves into animosity and frustration, and I guess that you could push someone to the breaking point with that, but someone's role pm hardly has anything to do with how well they can deal with or win an argument. I also can't speak for others, but I know that most of the time I do talk to my scum reads, I rarely find myself trying to prove my read wrong, so I end up just proving myself right in my head and tunneling on one person for something which objectively speaking is completely random or nit-picky. I've just gotten to the point where I feel like directly engaging your scum read is just reinforcing a confirmation bias and removes a sense of objectivity that I just like to have in general. Objectivity is something that I really like as a concept, and I always want to try my best to achieve that, although I know that I don't, since I can act rather illogically and hypocritically at times. But in the spirit of objectivity, I tend to get my reads from reading the interactions between people that

do

have something to say to each other, rather than just asking pointed or useless questions that don't actually change my read in anyway. This is something that I'd actually like to get better at, although I make zero effort in doing so because...reasons... So I guess that's just how teenage years go, the desire to improve and be better, while simultaneously too lazy to come around to a different point of view or put in the work to get what you want. I probably won't change, and I could have just pointed you to another game where someone made this exact post, so I guess this is a good example of a superfluous explanation of something.

TL;DR You've got a point there tbh.

i never actually read this post

[eddie]

You? I'm not. You're making town squawks (trying to sort the game and generally being useful) so you're not a good day 1 lynch. I don't have the ability to do an AP level player read on D1, and it's looking more and more like I'm going to have to meta dive you at some point when RL cools down since you disagree with pun's read on you.

so i take it this never happened?

[eddie]

FUCK OFF EDIE

WHO DARETH SPEAK ILL OF THE CHOSEN ONE

[eddie]

Ank, I hope you're aware you're actively dissuading me from following through and voting JJ by ignoring me constantly.

[eddie]

ETL, when did you decide you aren't sheeping Jingle?

[eddie]

Well, there's a day left and regardless of alignment JJ will vote his counterwagon, so they are both essentially L-1. I think both are scummy, more Pun. I want to honor my intent to vote JJ, but you aren't working with me at all and you're making it very difficult.

[eddie]

i'll be around to hammer by the way

we are copping Jingle

cya in 10 hours after work

[eddie]

i'll be around to hammer by the way

we are copping Jingle

cya in 10 hours after work

No we are copping OTM. Can people stop attempting to change the plan? This is why there is no cohesion. We get a plan that accomodates everyone and everything and someone changes because they aren't getting 100% of what they want.

Lynch Pun, Cop OTM. If Pun town, lynch jjh.

you are the only one attempting to change the plan. this accomadstes everyone except for you, and this was what we agreed on. I personally would love a jingle or pun lunch but this is a compromise. otm is not even a consideration.

sorry titus. we are copping jingle.

[eddie]

home from work

[eddie]

I assume we get an extension for the sub right?

[eddie]

Titus, you need to accept that Math is town.

[eddie]

I understand what you're saying, but Jingle is not overly townie and I can relate to that too so you're not going to get any support from me on that front. I'm more concerned with their active threat to gamethrow, but copping Jingle is A OK in my books anyways,

I could just lynch Pun but there aren't enough votes.

[eddie]

hammering in an hour or two finish up folks

[eddie]

might as well quote it 3028 times

[eddie]

no Titus. every single player besides you is aware we are copping jungle. stop with this please.

[eddie]

We are copping Jingle. This is not a question.

[eddie]

You understand that Jingle not being as town was kind of a thing in general, right?

Jingle being suspected is flat out moronic. We don't cop townreads. Period. Math created that suspicion out of nothing. So what the hell relevance is your "general" thing? I'm in a very cranky mood. If you think you can convince me to cop my biggest townread while giving me nothing but a promise that has been broken once today and repeatedly elsewhere, you're sorely mistaken. I've been getting better but letting Math wreck this game like Civilization is no good.

ETL supports it and ETL is far more experienced in Jinglesorting than you are. That should be enough for you.

[eddie]

So go right on ahead and be dumb. I can't stop you, but when you ask me to "cooperate" and every single time since Day 1 I get a No. I'm not going to cooperate. Sure I was wrong on the hydra, but I keep getting shouted down and ignored since Mark came in.

And wrong on me, though the influx is true.

If Jingle's town, clearing him is the best thing for town now anyways. If scum kill him, good, means we don't need to deal with jingle!lylo if we get there.

You lost the negotiation. Its the same thing as losing your lynch. Deadline is in about an hour or three, it is WAY too late in the day for this crusade. We are not deadline scramble copping.

[eddie]

If its within Pun/Nos/OTM then you think I'm town and know I'm speaking to you genuinely.

Its too late for this Titus. Now you're finally being serious about the game, which is great, but deadline is literally in 2 hours and change and NOW you're trying to change the town plan. That isn't okay. It can't happen, if for no reason other than randomly changing it while half the playerlist isn't around is not okay.

We are copping Jingle. I told you, every single player has agreed to it except for you. You accused Math of being bullheaded, arrogant, play-by-ego, whatever word you attribute antitown too? That's you if you don't cop Jingle. Cops are still pretty useless without unity.

[eddie]

This isn't a negotiation. You never negotiated with me at all. I'm not getting railroaded.

And because this doesn't seem to be getting through to you,

this has been the plan for a few days IRL, close to a week I believe. it sucks you weren't around to talk about it, but it was the plan that solved everyone's qualms apparently excluding yours. if you were online, we would have negotiated with you. this is the EXACT same thing as a lynch - if you're gonna be a useless lurker, then you aren't going to impact who gets lynched. if you're gonna be absent from the thread, you're not gonna impact who gets copped. you missed your shot. a 2 hour scramble is not a shot.

[eddie]

in terms of voting on a cop target, jingle has been long since hammered.

[eddie]

Not once have you listened to me and you all lived through Math's wrecking of games.

Where have I not been listening to you? I have a ton of outgoing posts to you unanswered and I've responded to everything from you.

[eddie]

because JJ's gonna flip town?

[eddie]

Not once have you listened to me and you all lived through Math's wrecking of games.

Where have I not been listening to you? I have a ton of outgoing posts to you unanswered and I've responded to everything from you.

Hearing is not the same as listening. All I get is that you want to do your plan and your sole motivation in talking to me is to get me to comply. To accomodate Mark, which is the last thing we should be doing.

Do you not understand I'm pushing Jingle about how hard Math is and the reason we are copping him is much more my doing? Your brother has strengths, but charisma is not one of them and this wouldn't have been the plan with Math shouting he's scum as the sole propellant.

[eddie]

This is not to accomodate Mark specifically. Jingle triggered a desire to lynch him from myself with how he pushed me, a hard one. He was my preferred lynch today, followed by Pun, followed by JJ and Nos. Ank and Jingle are both adamantly refusing Pun, and all 3 of them can't be scum. Pun is not feasible and doesn't have the votes. The compromise is to lynch JJ, which is the preferred lynch of 4 players (out of 8 - Nos is not doing anything relevant, noted that though), and Jingle, which settles the paranoia I believe every single player except for yourself apparently has, including ETL. This was the plan that gave every player something, except for the two slots doing 0. 1 of those slots has still not stated any opinions, and now the other is trying to stir shit up right before deadline.

[eddie]

because JJ's gonna flip town?

JJ is going to flip town. I lost the lynch. That sailed.

Copping Jingle means we accomodated Math and let him shade the correct townblock. Tomorrow, he'll target someone new and the process repeats itself. You'll know that Jingle's town but guess what, the townblock will be down a man already. And you'll accomodate Math over the confirmed town again. Pun and Nos get away again. Solely because Math's that crazy so must be town.

Pun and Nos are both very sus, you aren't even on a different page from me. Copping Jingle is something every single player aside from you wants. It might not be their number one choice, mine would be Pun, Ank's would be me, Pun's would probably be me, etc, but its a good compromise for all of us. This was a discussion we all had.

I can't keep repeating this friend. Its too late.

[eddie]

Like you're all scrambling to take credit for Mark's division of us. That's exactly what he does. He shouts at you so hard you think the idea is yours and you're off a cliff.

There's a reason Math has a scum game on par or better than mine and a town game about as good as UCV. We all know this. I have played with him at least in the double digits, and you've seen me get extremely frustrated and toxic about it. Multiple times.

This time, it is not his idea. He might be the first person to hard push Jingle, but I am the reason he's being copped today.


pedit- I'm going to hammer when we are done this session, not risking going to sleep and forgetting. i have a 14 hour work day tomorrow. just finishing talking.

[eddie]

Why the hell is this argument that this is sudden? I've been saying it since Mark showed up. I've been saying Jingle town for days. I've been saying cop unity who gives a shit since the start of the game.

yawn

[eddie]

mods probably lurking, so we aren't gonna have much of a twilight. hammering in 10, gonna walk dog.

[eddie]

goodbye friendos

VOTE: JJ

[eddie]

that's his version of scum claiming btw

congrats ank, your other read is wrong though

[eddie]

Votecount 3.10

OnTheMark (1)jjh927 ,
jjh927 (4) , Punreader, Jingle , OnTheMark, Ankamius L-1
Punreader (2)EspeciallyTheLies , Titus ,
Nosferatu (1) eddie,
Not Voting (1) Nosferatu

Day three deadline is Wednesday June 5, 9 PM PST. (expired on 2018-06-06 21:00:00)

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch!

[/size]

so, either scum's bussing or its nos.

its probably just nos, pun is possible

[eddie]

tbh i would love to cfd the cop to nos if this reds LOL but that would be wayy too hypocritical

[eddie]

we received a scum result on jingle

[eddie]

someone compile all role results please

and claim results, including you ank <3

[eddie]

OnTheMark (reaplced Draynth replaced Mulch)
Ankamius (replaced PenguinPower)
Jingle
Nosferatu (replaced KidAmn)
EspeciallyTheLies
eddie (Eddie Cane and schadd_) (replaced schadd_)
Punreader (replaced CheekyTeeky)

{Ank, OTM, ETL, eddie}
- all town

{Pun, Jingle, Nos}
-scum pool

Probably roughly in that order ish

lets see results

[eddie]

Punreader, ETL, or me

even if you're right and pun's town, which is a realistic possibility
you can't possibly be so tunnelled that you don't understand why they're never a kill option there

and to make this not a negative note and because people should hear this more than they do,

good job. you've played well. sorry if you think anything i've said is too toxic.

[eddie]

I got town on Jingle

i'm blind sorry

so ya just waiting on results

[eddie]

i will say you're right and the kill does implicate OTM

still believe that slots town though. interesting you townread me more than pun now? and jingle more than me even with us 1v1ing each other?

[eddie]

Morning

I got town on Titus.

Mafia on Titus.

Town on Titus.

Hey Titus...

Moonlogic Twin Powers Activate?

town on titus

s

Town. Gnight all.

scum on titus

Scum result on the above

i got scum on sgba.

town sgba

Scum result SGBA.

Town result on SGBA

scum on sgba

i got scum on sgba.

My check on SGBA returned Town

Town result.

Maybe just don't do anything for now...

We can talk about things that aren't results or plans now, although obv no one should hammer or put anyone in hammer range before I can talk at length.

I can't talk at length until at least Saturday, more likely Sunday.

@smith: V/LA until Saturday.

Town result on sgba

I got town on Jingle

we received a scum result on jingle

can someone find the rest i can't

[eddie]

The kills and the way you've been playing don't match up

so are you still sure Pun's town?

[eddie]

was anyone else strongly townreading gork around this point?

town leaning with hesitations iirc

[eddie]

Actually I'll go into that a bit more

Punreader kills ETL to avoid the obvtown tunnel on their slot
Use me to lynch eddie D4
Kill me N4

Titus and OTM would have bad reads and no synergy with the rest of town
Jingle... idk
Nosferatu hasn't been a presence

That would be a pretty simple endgame to win for Pun

wifom trapping yourself, but in general fair enough

nos is probs the lynch today depending on Jingle results

where we go if he is town is my concern rn

[eddie]

and I don't care enough to ask you to

if you're confident with Pun town, I'll accept it. their posting to Titus (chaisawing my argument... chainsaw in a good way? ) wasn't bad either, scum!them would probably not be backing me up there. still find their tunnel on me sketch, but they were gut town from the beginning so maybe I was just tunnelled.

jingle i'm not there yet though

[eddie]

if ETL can positively say Jingle's town, I'll accept that. otherwise, houston we have a problem.

though with 2 dead scum mass cops are very effective; we probably have jingle sorted anyways. need claims. hopefully mathblade or etl do that, or jingle.

[eddie]

btw, our current math is jingle is 80%+ likely scum from results

need the rest though

7 living players

5 of the 6 results on jingle are 100% coming from town, and its very likely there's dead random cop(s) based on the Titus result

so basically, what i'm saying is we will effectively have jingle sorted

[eddie]

3. I think I would have killed eddie or ETL tonight.

for pure curiosity

why me? this is not a game i'm a global townread

[eddie]

thank you

@anyways,
we are quickly establishing jingle's scum, isn't Ank the only one out of 4 people that has repeating results?

[eddie]

the same has to be true for us too

we got town twice and scum on jingle

or if you want to be a prick and assume we are scum lying, same's true for pun with insane; 2 of us have to be town at the least.

[eddie]

Well for a start I don't kill Stop Getting Banned Again N2, but N3 would indeed not be Titus. Jingle, you, and ETL are all far better kills.

haha if you're town you'll probably actually like this weird ass angle;

all 3 nightkills have been awful. wildly suboptimal. ginngie, sgba, titus. i'm better than that as scum and you know it.

[eddie]

Because anyone not voting Jingle is saying that

myself and pun are also the same

and at least 2 of me / you / pun have to be town

we both repeated results twice and got a different result today

thats about a 1% chance. lol.

also friendo don't tell me to wait up you're the one of us two who's voting

[eddie]

and if i did math right, about 0.2% if all 3 of us are town.

[eddie]

wdym?
hes probably guiltied...

[eddie]

...wat

[eddie]

that is at ank

cause jingle was marked as her second strongest sr
sigh

[eddie]

well, the more likely assumption is one of those 3/4 are scum in a town!Jingle world, but ya

[eddie]

4 random cops
2 sane cops
2 insane cops
2 naive cops
2 paranoid cops
1 additional cop, randed among the five sanities

this includes scum though

[eddie]

OTM: Random, Sane
Ank: Random, Naive, Sane
Jingle: Random, Sane, Naive
Nos: Random, Insane
ETL: Random, Paranoid, Insane
Eddie: Random, Sane
Pun: Random, Insane
Titus: Random, Paranoid, Insane
SGBA: ???
Ginngie: ???



And it was very likely 1 or more random cops were dead anyways - I don't care enough to do the math, but virtually every slot got parity on Titus, and the less of those slots that are random the more reasonable that is.


VOTE: Jingle

[eddie]

I'm ready for the game to end tbh.

[eddie]

if it continues after this lynch, do we still need to mass cop? if so Nos is the obvious choice. not entirely sure we do though.

[eddie]

haha Ank

if Jingle is scum yesterday we were both passionately fighthing about lynching scum...

too bad Titus and ETL suck

[eddie]

Then a Jingle town flip gives us a lot of info on sanities, which makes him the best lynch anyways

explain what you mean

big point: confirms a bunch of us as random

tells us a bit about SGBA possibilities

and, with 4 people confirmed as random (3 if you want the 1 could be scum technicality) then that literally only leaves 1-2 random slots that are possible to exist and it was already extremely likely dead people were rand

even typing this out i'm seeing how unlikely it is jingle's town though lmao

[eddie]

Nah, its on Nos mate. Nos is more questionable than Pun at this point.

But, I'm very confident its Jingle.

[eddie]

Jingle tried to push against me when A50 was going down, it makes sense now in the sense of I had pushed down one scum partner and had the other as my top scum read

It makes sense that Jingle wanted to stop me

But then why the fuck kill SGBA

cuz they got scum on Jingle and he couldn't risk having them show town on Titus along with other parity results.

VOTE: Jingle

Also, Jingle needs the other power posters alive to draw attention from himself

you / me / kind of pun and ank

hence why the kills are all 3 low info low conflict: ginngie, useless that can obvtown; sgba, useless that was obvtown; titus, useless up until the last 6 horus of day 3, conftown.

[eddie]

Nah, its on Nos mate. Nos is more questionable than Pun at this point.

But, I'm very confident its Jingle.

Nos is spewed town from a50 fight.

Pun wants the cops on them. Anyone wanting to be checked freaking gets it when sanities are damn near solved.

Pun wants me lynched and the cop on them, thats an important distinction. they've been godawful this game so I don't really care what they want.

[eddie]

Nah, its on Nos mate. Nos is more questionable than Pun at this point.

But, I'm very confident its Jingle.

Nos is spewed town from a50 fight.

Pun wants the cops on them. Anyone wanting to be checked freaking gets it when sanities are damn near solved.

Indeed he kind of is, though A50 likes to distance.

That's okay because its just Jingle! But Nos is a better cop than Pun at this point. Pun is after Nos if it gets to that point.