131 Boca Del Infierno! Brain Meats EXPLODEded!

[mathcam]

Yeah, a pro-town powerless Xander sure seems like the most likely scenario.

I assume donuts with red jelly is a reference I'm just missing? If no one knows this reference, then maybe it

does

have something to do with the game. But perhaps, as they say, it's just a red herring.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm, good point about the military training.

It seems that there are two scenarios: One is that Xander is a regular townie, which is why we got no information about him. The second is that Xander is not a townie, and our mod (WW, from now on, so as not to confuse with a possible Willow in the game) is choosing not to reveal roles upon death. (It could, of course, also be the case that Xander is a townie

and

WW is not revealing roles upon death.)

Also, I just thought I'd point out two things in WW's rules that might be worth keeping in mind for the future:

[16] Oh, realize that no one can be trusted,Assumptions falter, actions and or lack thereof has consequences.

and

LIVE AND PLAY FREE WITH THE KNOWLEDGE YOU HAVE NONE BUT WHAT YOU'RE BORN WITH!!!!

Maybe this last one is the answer to our question of how much information we're going to be getting.

Cam

[mathcam]

...so we're possibly/probably looking at Adam/Glory/Master/First/Judge/etc. for scum.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, one death on night one seems to give a decent amount of credibility to the one-killing-group theory, which out of 12 players, must have size 3 or 4 (4 seems a little large). Of course, the other alternative is that one killing group got blocked last night, in which case a) role-blockers should definitely keep in mind who they blocked last night, and b) we may be facing all kinds of extra possibilities: 2 groups of 2 mafia, mafia group of 3 and an SK, mafia group of 2 and an SK, etc.

Don't touch the conjugate???

Cam

[mathcam]

Alright, with what meager workings we have so far, I'm looking at ZONEACE and DoomCow to be the most likely ot be scum. I'll semi-randomly pick

Vote: ZONEACE

(semi-random because DoomCow has an awesome signature)

Cam

[mathcam]

You can, but I'm sure my answer will be unsatisfactory.

ZONEACE has only one post to go off of, but in that one post he posts only a tangentially useful one-liner about roles that might be in this game. This somewhat looks to me like maybe one of those roles was given to him as a safe role claim and he wanted to start ingraining in people's minds early on that these roles were here.

DoomCow (also having only one post so far) is in a similar boat. He puts forward a mildly helpful comment and claims (like ZONEACE did) that he didn't really have anything useful to say.

While obviously not directly mafia-implying, it certainly seems like it's

more

likely for that to be the actions of scum than a townie...I feel like a townie would be more likely to actively brainstorm ideas as to the game setup or something like that.

That's whay I got, take it or leave it.

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't see what's so suspicious about that, especially since the rest of page 1 is filled with that kind of posts.

Right, me neither. That's why I didn't say Super-Uber-Major FOS: Doomcow, or even Vote: DoomCow.. I instead said that if I had to pick some people that seemed scummiest to me, you would be among the top 2.

IF you look at the first post (i think its the first post, the one with lots of italicized flavor text), it says there are 2 people who go about at night fighting (not a direct quote) and that theirs is a thankless job, Thats a description of a slayer in my eyes, and Since in the Jossverse, there are 2 living slayers i assumed it was those 2, which are buffy and faith.

I'm not sure what your point is here, ZONEACE. I wasn't arguing with your conclusion.

Cam

[mathcam]

Agreed.

Minor FOS: BadAndie

for making a mountain out of a molehill.

Cam

[mathcam]

For what it's worth, there were 2 slayers before Faith even made an appearance. The end of the first season also saw a death of buffy, and hence a second slayer (Kendra)...not that this is particularly relevant. Also not relevant is that there's an awesome episode of Angel where we see all the new slayers working together, and against the Angel crew.

Cam

[mathcam]

I've lost most of my suspicion on ZONEACE.

Unvote: ZONEACE, Vote: BadAndie

. PBuG was a close second, and DoomCow third after that.

Cam

[mathcam]

a) I don't think I ever attacked PBuG until that last post.
b) Well, yeah. Some of you

are

scum and it's the job of the rest of us to find out who. And if that entails prodding people with the occasional mild suspicion, then I'm all for it.

Vote stays for now.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, you implied I "jumped" to him, which seems more than "went after him slightly," but this is just a war of semantics at this point.

Cam

[mathcam]

I feel like I would have seen it if it were there the first time... I have a tendency to copy and paste it. It's possible that it was in black, making it easier to miss, and on a later revision WW blue'd it up so that we'd notice it. Hmm. If this is the case, then it's probably important. Note that the last edit was on the 22nd, which was Wednesday, the day after the game started.

The problem I see with this line of reasoning is that it's a memorable quote, but it only possibly applies after a townie (i.e. FD) dies. Second, 4 mafia is a lot for a mini. Certainly heard of, but still a lot. I guess we'll see in future nights how many kills come.

Cam

[mathcam]

I've lost most of my suspicion on ZONEACE.

Why?

Post 51, mostly.

I think the warpdragon bandwagon is a good alternative to the BadAndie one:

Unvote: BadAndie, Vote: warpdragon

.

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't hide the fact that my vote jumps around a lot. I don't see much point in leaving my vote on someone I don't find to be the most suspicious,

plus

voting for different people gives you the opportunity to see how they react to being voted for, which gives us more information.

Cam

[mathcam]

What in the world made you think that claiming was a good idea, Vraak!?!?! You weren't even the vote leader!

It sounds to me like you were pretty eager to claim, possibly thus implying that what you're hinting at is a fake role claim given you by the mod.

Cam

[mathcam]

Far from it. I have my reasons for claiming, though I'm not quite sure what they are.

Ummm....

Okay...

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't think it's that simple, fuldu.

a) It was a very bizarre time to claim.
b) It could be a fake claim.
c) As olio points out, he's semi-lurking.
d) I'm probably being dense, but are we talking about Giles or Wesley? Right now, I see the description fitting either: They're both nerdy, British, and wear glasses.

I find that people equipped with a fake claim by the mod are often eager to get their claims out in the open, just because they can.

I still like my warpdragon vote, but I disagree that there's no reason to find Vraak fairly suspicious.

Cam

[mathcam]

What kind of proof are we talking about here? Like tomorrow? Or like the kind of proof that could take days to reveal so that if you're actually scum and we believe you you'll have killed us all in your sleep?

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, I'm not so sure, but I certainly don't see any harm in waiting until everyone posts again before we take any futher action.

Cam

[mathcam]

I take it you're claiming some kind of posting restriction as well as a role. Hm.

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay...

WD, I assume you're going to claim responsibility for that?

Cam

[mathcam]

I think wd will be more able to inform us.

Does anyone know if anything good or bad happens if we knew/didn't know the answer?

Cam

[mathcam]

Before anyone comments on that, we should find out more information about what happens to people who got it right or wrong before we reveal too much. Obvsiously, something weird happened, and it might be a bad idea for the mafia to know who got it right or wrong (for example, it may be that people who got it right get free night protection).

Cam

[mathcam]

Before anyone comments on that, we should find out more information about what happens to people who got it right or wrong before we reveal too much.

So much for that. Sigh. You guys couldn't contain yourselves until wd came back?

Cam

[mathcam]

PBuG, would you describe your note as investigative in nature?

Cam

[mathcam]

Umm, I sure hope you were allowed to quote that PM from the mod.

Interesting...can you send more notes, warpdragon?

Cam

[mathcam]

Oops, forgot to

Unvote: warpdragon

, though I'm still a little wary.

And I'm going to

Vote: Vraak X

. I strongly suspect he's producing a faked role claim, and he's kind of half-claiming a posting restriction, but if you look through his posts, he's failed it several times. On top of all this, he's never defended any of his accusations except lurking, in response to which he just claims that it "can be verified by other" that he really

is

doing college applications. Note that I don't think he's lying about this, but it

is

bizarre that that's the

only

thing he's responded to. Instead of responding to anything else, he claimed extremely early, which takes me back to my first point of this paragraph which seems to have gone on longer than intended.

Cam

[mathcam]

That was bizarre.

Cam

[mathcam]

You're one weird cookie, Vraak.

Unvote: Vraak

for now.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm, so many thoughts. I doubt WD and PbuG are scum together, but I find it highly possible that one of the two is (for no other reason than some very bizarre things have happened, and I don't see any reason to believe that they're both innocent...it's just too convenient to let them clear each other because of a note).

Vraak X is behaving very oddly. I can't help but feel he's trying to pull a fast one over on us, but I admit he's being very convincing. I think the best plan for him is to let him live until at least tomorrow to see if he can come up with anything more concrete and less gibberish to defend himself with.

BadAndie I find hard to read. My one thought so far is that she's acting similarly to how she acted in her last newbie game, in which she was town.

Something sticks out about Fuldu, but I can't put my finger on it. I think I'll go reread when I have time later, and see if I can be more specific.

I think everyone else kind of hovers around the neutral point...no real feelings one way or another. Maybe that will change when I read through again.

Cam

[mathcam]

Though I agree it was a ridiculous request for a vote count, but at the same time, you know you love giving them, WW.

In seriousness, I wonder if the ridiculousness of the vote count request contains some clue about Vraak.

I was curious, so I looked up:

Kudasai is the imperative of the verb kudasaru, meaning 'to give'. 'Giving' and 'receiving' in Japanese is not a straightforward matter. Different verbs are used depending on who is giving or receiving and the honorific level involved. etc.

Why would Vraak use this term?

Cam

[mathcam]

*waits for PBuG*

Cam

[mathcam]

Vote: DoomCow

.

All of my other suspicions are people that we'll find out more information about later. DoomCow is just as likely to be scum as anyone else, but he'll be harder to detect because he won't post unless he has "something to say."

Cam

[mathcam]

I have to agree with Silgado. In some sense, it's a townperson's responsibility to appear pro-town. By not posting at all, you fail in that respect, meaning that in the current situation, where we have to choose between lynching someone who's posted a lot and someone from whom we have no information, our best strategy is to lynch you,

especially

since we're deadlined.

Cam

[mathcam]

I have no idea. It sure seems like Riley'd description refers to a hairdo...but I have no idea why. It's possibly just flavor text.

Cam

[mathcam]

And with that...Xander is kaput, finito, sans vive etc.

Cam

[mathcam]

Cam:

'
ooOOoOoO
Xanders back.

Oh, I prefer to make snide comments and

then

read the opening post. You gotta problem with that?



Cam

[mathcam]

I have to agree it's fairly awfully reasoning. Why would you suspect that only scum wouldn't pay attention? I would guess that scum usually pay

more

attention to the game than their townie counterparts. That said, sorry for not having caught up...just a busy day yesterday.

I'm baffled by the FD thing. Hopefully if he's able, he'll post ASAP so we can figure out what's up.

He isn't a He at all, but more like a girl. The one who wasn't so powerful but after all was released became as powerful as the rest.
But power is to be used wisely right? This one seems to be a bit off kilter

I like the Glory idea best, but it still doesn't seem to fit totally perfectly. I also like Willow for the "wasn't so powerful" part, but she doesn't really make sense with the "He isn't a he" part.

WW has decided just to be very cryptic this game.

Vraak? Can you tell us anything more today?

Cam

[mathcam]

This is only my second game, so I've never had to deal with another player having posting restrictions before. Is it worth the effort to set up a system for FD to at least answer simple yes/no questions, or is that just going to lead to more confusion than its worth?

Good idea, Tactix. Somehing like...

FD, if you know who/what happened to you, post

"I've got a theory we should work this out
What's this cheery singing all about ?"

as you did before. Otherwise, post anything else.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm beginning to find the cryptic remarks very annoying. Pretty soon I'm just going to start ignoring them altogether and start pretending that we're role-free. If the cryptic remarks are forced by Willow, then half of us are just reading from the script of how WW thinks the game should go...who knows if that's to the town's benefit or to scum's?

If we keep ignoring these people, we're just going to keep lynching the only people who can speak normally, and the game is going to become even less coherent than before. We'll neve find scum that way. Can you imagine a day with only Vraak X, Flying Dutchman, and a couple more like them alive?

FD, please reply to my post directed at you.

I actually find ZONEACE scummiest right now, but I'm goint to

Vote: Vraak X

because there's a decent chance he's scum (I'm worred what will happen if he achieves whatever his goal is), and even in the worst-case scenario, we've lost a townie who can't possibly help contribute to scum-finding.

Cam

[mathcam]

Furiosity is a good word for you, ZONEACE. If I didn't already like your title, I'd nominate "Filled with Furiousity."

My suspicion from you is left from day 1. I just don't feel like you're acting the way you often do. You see much more laid-back and relaxed...as a townie, you're often very agressive and belligerent. This is either a newer, calmer ZONEACE or a scum ZONEACE. But all in all, I prefer voting on strategy rather than nuances in play style, and I think it's more strategic at this point to lynch Vraak X. So you're in the clear (for now).

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, but is there to say about it? It looks like just a quote from an episode randomly inserted in to the game. Maybe it means Adam is scum in this game, but that was already a possibility earlier. We can keep discussing these random tangents as they come up, or we can try to root out who's scum.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sorry, that should be "but what is there to say about it?"

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay, so you're claiming responsibility for bringing FD back to life. I can't tell if I'm excited or extremely supspicious for you. On the one hand, it'll make the mafia's job very hard if you can bring back to life whoever they kill. On the other hand, this role seems extremely unbalanced for exactly that reason.

Cam

[mathcam]

Okay.

Unvote: Vraak X

. If you can tell us anything about your posting, Vraak, I'd appreciate it.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, I got that hint. I guess the first line answers my question, though. Some kind of bonus for posting. Let's leave it at that.

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, I can see how that would be surprising. I'm not holding it against you or anything. I just didn't see anything to say about it. It felt more like a flavor text than anything else.

Cam

[mathcam]

warpdragon - Do you trust Vraak X enough to send him your note? I do, but it should be up to you.

Well, kind of, but mostly I think it should be up to us. But in any case, it doesn't matter to me too much...if we send it scum, it's just one more chance they have of messing stuff up and getting caught.

Cam

[mathcam]

www.buffyguide.com has just about everything.

The "two things coming together" seems to be Giles and Willow...according to Vraak's claims, they work together to do magic. This seems to be a powerful pro-town force, so we should be careful about revealing too many roles, lest we give away who Willow is. We have to be careful though: Vraak could be lying about a lot of things. Knowing WW (the mod, not the player), it seems quite likely that, for example, Willow could be pro-town and Vraak could be anti-town, or vice-versa. If you want a theory, my theory is that something fishy is up between those two. As long as they keep working for the good of the town, though, there doesn't seem to be much reason to stop them.

Glory was the big bad of season 5, who kind of shared a personality with a semi-love interest of Buffy's named Ben. They were both gods.

Cam

[mathcam]

I confess I'm sitting here mostly at a loss for what to say. There are a ton of people I find somewhat scummy, but confusion about the setup and the various random events are keeping me of being sure enough to cast a vote anywhere. I honestly have no better ideas than to

OMGUS vote: Olio

. If you're looking for something mildly substantive, he did look awfully eager to vote at the start of the day.

Cam

[mathcam]

No offense, Tactix, but I feel like all 3 are relatively unlikely. If I'm reading him right, FD indicated earlier in the day that he didn't know anything about what had happened to him. The second choice is possible, but I feel like this is an awfully bizarre time to "see what happens." But LOL at 3.

I think more likely are that FD is either a) jumping on the biggest bandwagon, or b) agrees that olio is the scummiest just from his posts so far.

And apparently FD counts for voting but I don't.

Cam

[mathcam]

The slayer relaxant bit was part of your role PM? Or did someone else do it to you night 1?

Olio, if you're concerned about modkilling, you can always send your post to the mod via PM and have him/her check it out to be safe. There's a whole discussion thread on this topic in Mafia Discussion.

Cam

[mathcam]

I have another power which will put us in a mode Mathcam will surely love

This was sarcasm, right? If it can prove your role, I'd probably say go for it.

Cam

[mathcam]

And plus we already think that Vraak X might be Giles any way, so none of the meshes.

It's looking more and more like either a) Some big seemingly-good roles are evil in this game (Buffy? Giles?), or b) the mod has given out safe role claims (and possibly abilities to go along with them) to cover scum's tracks.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm. I'm surprised there hasn't been more commenting on PBuG's claim. It doesn't make much sense to me...why would a neutral role have only one ability, and have that ability be anti-town? And on that same note, why would PBuG's

one

goal be something that was a) so easy to do, and b) so relatively inconsequential to the game.

It's possible that PBuG is telling the truth, but if he isn't, he's anti-town and not pro-town. So by going after him, we don't risk lynching a townie, or perhaps even more importantly, don't risk outing willow. The only real way I can see PBuG not being scum is if Buffy is anti-town, which is a suspicion I'm happy to ignore until tomorrow.

Cam

[mathcam]

You don't think that Riley would be better to have around? A pro-town role instead of an at-best-neutral role?

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't know why I didn't vote yet.

Unvote: Olio, Vote: PBuG

Cam

[mathcam]

I agree now that he's probably not scum. But a) There's a chance he's scum, and b) There's a chance he could

become

scum. In any case, he's definitely not pro-town, and at this point, a lynch of someone who's not pro-town

and

doesn't reveal Willow seems like our best bet, especially with the impending deadline.

Cam

[mathcam]

No resurrections, Vraak?

FD, can you post more yet?

WW, your previous avatar was a lot hotter.

Cam

[mathcam]

We should take our time with this, but I

am

disappointed we didn't kill PBuG yesterday. We essentially wasted a day due to people lurking. He's

not

pro-town, is quite possibly anti-town, and even if he

is

neutral:

a) He might be recruitable to scum.
b) If it comes down to it, who knows what he'll do if he's one of the last 3? He certainly has no obligation to act protownily.

Cam

[mathcam]

Wow. Pretty major

FOS: ZONEACE

. While I agree with your sentiment, I don't see what the rush is. There's only 8 alive, and probably only one scum dead (Snyder? I'm not sure, but it's looking more and more likely...this question itself deserves a good deal of discussion), so rushing into a bad lynch could be fairly costly. We at least need to wait and see if there's any information from last night.

Cam

[mathcam]

Thought it's certainly possible that I missed that, warpdragon, I think that information was added to the front post by WW pretty recently (note that the post was last edited by WW 2 hours after I made that post). So this is good...WW is slowly giving us more information, we're losing some of our posting restrictions, and we have a strong candidate for a lynch today.

Cam

[mathcam]

Sorry, guys. My internet's been sporadically craptacular for the last couple of days.

Nonethless, I think we should lynch possible scum.

Okay, explain to me why KingEnigma is not possible scum.

Sending a note to FD seems find to me.

Once we're done with the note thing, barring any amazing evidence coming from that, I'll put my vote on KE. We have 3 out of 5 right now, I think.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, Willow's come and gone. Any word, FD? Or are we going to have to start untangling this mess?

Cam

[mathcam]

I guess that's the Gentlemen again, then? There were probably other lesser bad guys in some of the episodes who's names either couldn't be pronounced or got more powerful if their names were pronounced, but the gentlemen seem like kind of a natural fit here.

Cam

[mathcam]

Hm. I think ZONEACE has a good point about Jasmine, but I also think KE has a good point about it not being Jasmine. I tend to agree that this game is probably exclusively Sunnydale-based (though it's obviously not a good idea to rule anything out at this poitn). In any case,

FOS: One of ZONEACE and Fuldu

for being wrong and possibly being scum and using disinformation to their advantage. For now, this makes me lean ever more toward lynching KE today, and then possibly taking a better look at ZONEACE tomorrow depending on the outcome.

Cam

[mathcam]

I agree, Vraak is acting and logicing very oddly.

Note that my above FOS should have been "One of ZONEACE or KingEnigma". I'm not sure where Fuldu came from.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, frankly, because I don't think WW would have made it that easy on us. I know I'm alive, and everyone else who has revealed their roles is alive, and since this is just about everyone, it doesn't seem like an unreasonable conclusion. There have also been cryptic messages in the notes implying that one among us was secretly evil, or something like that, and notes like that make me think that scum in this game isn't who you'd expect.

Cam

[mathcam]

a) Good sleuthing about jasmine.
b) I think Vraak and Fuldu could work together to bring people back to life, ZONEACE. We saw evidence of this with FD. This, of course, doesn't mean Vraak is pro-town.

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm not saying your suspicions are baseless...I have them myself. I was just saying that his ability to aid in resurrections seems nearly-surefire.

Cam

[mathcam]

We could have done it every night -- but Willow died, so there was no more resurrecting. Not even the resurrecter could save herself.

So why didn't you do it the night she died?

Cam

[mathcam]

And who the hell is Miss Calendar? I'm supposed to be looking for her, too?

Did that sound incredibly forced to anyone else?

In any case, while I think Vraak is worth another look, I just can't escape the notion that from a strategic point of view, we have to lynch KE today. Though I appreciate the fact that he's posting more than others, he is a liability...not only because he's possibly scum and possibly recruitable, but also because he might end up siding with the scum for any of various reasons. I sure wouldn't want the endgame to come down to a townie and a scum voting for each other, and a neutral player choosing who to win.

Vote: KingEnigma

.

Cam

[mathcam]

Man, that's tough. While I find Vraak by far the most suspicious, I'm very uneasy leaving KE alive. Though not really suspicious, I'm a little surprised by your willingness to abandon your start-of-the-day passion for lynching KE.

Cam

[mathcam]

ZONEACE, why isn't a KE lynch better than a no lynch? It's almost

like

a no lynch if he's neutral, and it's much better than a no lynch if he's scum.

Cam

[mathcam]

I actually don't think that no lynch is that bad of an idea, I just think lnyching KE is better. We can deal with lurkers by having them modprodded or by just voting for them until they post. While I appreciate people who post more, it's not a good reason to keep them alive if it's not the best strategy to do so anyway.

Cam

[mathcam]

1) Possibly. If he's recruitable, that could help the mafia. I also haven't heard anyone say "I don't think that's a likely possibility," which makes me wonder if that it

is

the case.
2) It's hard to say. No offense to ZONEACE, but if, for example, it came down to a scum warpdragon, a townie ZONEACE, and a neutral, and ZONEACE for some reason or another managed to piss off the neutral, it might sway against us.

Cam

[mathcam]

You being scum was just an example. Interesting reaction, though.

Cam

[mathcam]

(D3) KingEngima: Council Rep (QT) (hanging out) doesn't matter

It looks like KE was indeed neutral, though I still think we made the right choice in lynching him.

I, however, have more pressing news: I got a note last night (origin unknown) saying that "the blood of SubtleTactix would reveal a truth."

That seems like it's pretty important/scummy...anyone have any thoughts? Maybe Tactix is Jasmine?

With warpdragon dead (and the fact that he only sent day notes), there aren't too many candidates for who could have sent the note, so we should also decide whether or not we want the note-sender to step forward. At this point, we're very much nearing a lynch-or-lose scenario, so I would lean toward asking the note-sender to come forward, just to make sure we're not being hoodwinked by a scummy notesender.

I feel like my vote's almost certainly going to end up on Tactix today, though I think we should hear from Tactix and the note-sender before we go too far. For now, just the infamous

SupercalifragilisticexpialiFOSious: Subtle Tactix

.

Cam

[mathcam]

ZONEACE, you're going to have to offer a little more than that. I'm not role-claiming just because a potential scum asks me to.

Maybe

the best plan for today is to mass role-claim, but if we can conclude that we have a definite scum in Tactix, then role-claiming today is doing so a day too early. Why would I let scum know my role a day before I had to?

Don't you think the existence of this note makes it worth pre-empting your plan, at least for the time being?

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, if someone takes responsibility for the note, then we'll essentially be down to an "either/or" scenario. At that point, we can see where we stand. If no one takes responsibility for the note, maybe we can just dismiss it. Right now, however, giving away the rest of our roles is extremely dangerous. And "misguided townie"? How would that fit the note? I'm not even sure what you mean by that.

FOS: ZONEACE

. For the first time in the game, we have a solid lead, and ZONEACE is trying to get it ignored. If Tactix turns out to be scum, which I think is pretty likely at this point, I'm going to have to take a good long look at ZONEACE afterwards. And now it looks like they might be staging a fake feud. Hmm.

Cam

[mathcam]

Don't worry about it, man. Take your time.

...

Okay, had enough yet?

Cam

[mathcam]

FD, all I have to say is thank goodness there's

someone

else sane left in the game ...excluding, of course, SubtleScumtix and the maybe-scum-but-more-probably-just-being-zoneacey ZONEACE.

I'm eager to hear FD's note, just because it would especially amusing if it revealed that ZONEACE is scum. Which brings me to the question...ZONEACE, how could your whole "plan" be based on a note that you yourself don't know what it says?

Still waiting on olio, jediknight, and Vraak X. Either one of these three are scum, or I've gone totally mad and am reading notes in my inbox that aren't actually there.

Cam

[mathcam]

Are you sure mafia doesn't have note-sending powers in which they can deceive the populace? (Thus making a good alibi?)

No, but we're also losing really badly at this point. If the mafia had extra abilities, it feels like we would have had no shot at the endgame.

All I'm saying is let's not rush the claim thing. We haven't heard from olio and jediknight yet. If they both claim to have not sent the note, then I will concede that it's likely sent by scum and should probably be ignored.

Cam

[mathcam]

I didn't want to claim, b/c I'm the character named in FD's note, (Xander's ex-girlfriend) and I think scum are going to try and use that against me.

a) You mean... Cordelia? You mean like the Cordelia that gave birth to Jasmine? The cordelia that went nuts and tried to kill everyone? You mean like "Cordelia" as in the fake role claim WW obviously set you up with?
b) Another

FOS: ZONEACE

for letting point (a) above slide. ZONEACE pushes for role claims, Tactix gives one that's

incredibly

incriminating (without even stating the claim), and ZONEACE then lets him off the hook. Why?
c) The only way Tactix is not scum is if jedi is. Jedi's role claim makes sense, and Tactix has claimed a blood relative of the only scum we're pretty sure is in the game. This choice is easy.

Vote: SubtleTactix

Cam

[mathcam]

First, LOL at 6-9.

Now to the pairings:

(2) SubtleTactix and ZONEACE - Don't forget: ZONEACE has a "plan" that involves revealing all the roles, and as soon as Tactix half-does this, ZONEACE lets him off the hook, even though Tactix' claim is scumtastic. This coming from the man who has claimed that his value to the town is figuring out stuff about the game based on his knowledge about Buffy.

(1) SubtleTactix and mathcam - Hey, fine, you don't want me to considered innocent after we Tactix turns up scum, then that's up to you. This doesn't affect how definitely scum Tactix is. Even if Tactix and I were scum together, that would still mean he's scum. So let's lynch him.

(4) Mathcam and ZONEACE - This is a pretty big stretch, don't you think? If I could have two votes at once, I'd probably stick the second on ZONEACE, though I'm not positive about it. In the meantime, Tactix is Jasmine.

Jediknight in general: I'm nearly positive that Tactix is scum, and I can't imagine that jediknight would be scum on top of this...at least not in the same group, and we've only seen one kill at a time. Why would he send me this note if he were mafia with Tactix? Also, why would WW give scum the ability to dick us over so hard? Does that seem reasonable?

Last, we're essentially confirmed on olio's buffyness by the fact that KingEnigma wasn't scum, and was in the game. While this doesn't guarantee olio's pro-town, he's up there with Flying Dutchman on my mostly-sure-to-be-innocent list.

Cam

[mathcam]

Vraak, I can't help but feel you're not really paying attention. While I share your suspicions on ZONEACE, I only have has his actions as justification. With Tactix, we have a note saying that Tactix is Jasmine, we have a weak claim of Cordelia which does nothing but associate him even more with Jasmine, we're pretty sure that Jasmine is in the game,

and

we're pretty sure Jasmine is scum. Why would you vote for ZONEACE instead? Olio, same question.

Cam

[mathcam]

Right, ZONEACE. Like I'm going to claim because scum voted for me, instead of just telling me to claim over and over. I'm not claiming unless some people I'm not sure are scum ask me to, and I strongly recommend that no one asks me to. Trust me, if I were scum, I'd already have three fake claims ready by now to fit a variety of scenarios.

Second, I thought it was clear that I meant my question to olio not as "Why are you voting for ZONEACE?" but rather "Why are you not voting for Tactix?"

Third, ZONEACE, you have presented absolutely no logic to support any argument you have, so shove it. If I didn't know you were putting on an act, I'd be pretty offended by this style of play.

The only way that Tactix is not scum (specifically, Jasmine) is if jediknight is. How else did I get the friggin' note? ZONEACE is almost certainly second, just by the way he's playing, though I have no proof to support this claim. My vote is in the right place, and I"m pretty sure I know where my vote's going tomorrow.

Cam

[mathcam]

What do you mean "What note", olio? The note we've been talking about all day! The one I got last night saying that Tactix's blood would reveal a truth. This fits perfectly with the role of Jasmine as Fred was the one who could originaly see Jasmine's demon side, since she touched Jasmine's blood.

You claim to be full of logic, ZONEACE, but we've still yet to see any. Explain to me how me not claiming is scummy. And yes, I'm the only one left to have not claimed.

To those of you with fears that I would sacrifice a co-scum Tactix:

Yes, of course I would. And that's why I shouldn't be a confirmed innocent when Tactix turns out to be scum. But whether or not I'm scum with Tactix or not, he's still Jasmine. There's no reason not to lynch him today.

Cam

[mathcam]

Is this your

entire

defense? "I know I'm not scum, and thus the note has to be wrong."

I'm referring back to the Emperor's Hand mafia.. Although I DID run the game, ZONEACE had the same "Oh please kill me" attitude that he did when it turned out that the town wanted to lynch him. I ended up mod-killing him anyway, for revealing his role.. but the town lynched him -- and he did end up town..

I have a very vivid memory of an instance where ZONEACE did the exacct same thing...called everyone morons and berated everyone, and then turned out to actually be scum. I have to admit this is lurking in the back of my mind, making it all the more hard to trust ZONEACE. It would be a (probably fatal) mistake to associate ZONEACE's belligerence with innocence.

As to ZONEACE, it's possible he's telling the truth, but this doesn't seem extremely likely to me. It's more likely to me that a) the claim is fake (but can still send notes somehow), or b) he's telling the truth and Faith is scum. I'm very suspicious of the

numer

of roles that seem to be able to send notes, so jediknight probably deserves another look tomorrow too. The only reason I'm pretty sure that jediknight is accurate, at least in this case, is that his note (Tactix=Jasmine) was so close to reality (or, rather, the claim: Tactix=Cordelia) that it can't be dismissed as coincidence.

Cam

[mathcam]

For Christs's sake, ZONEACE. Could you please provide the town with one good reason, one piece of "logic" explaining this burning desire you have for me to claim? Because so far, you haven't presented any.

I'm extremely close to unvoting Tactix and voting for ZONEACE. There are a couple of unlikely ways that the note could lead us astray, but I can't see any way ZONEACE would be acting this way if he were actually working in favor of the town.

Cam

[mathcam]

because you are the only one left to not claim

Not a valid reason for me to claim.

i want to see who you are

Not a valid reason for me to claim.

that note on day too i was responsible for, its about you

Could you just say this next time, instead of being infuriatingly vague and logicless about your pushing for me to claim? If I can become a confirmed innocent, or at least semi-confirmed, then

that

is something in the direction of being pro-town. Everything else you've said has just been scummy.

There is still the question of scum not getting too much info, including possibly you...I guarantee you that if I can keep the majority of my role secret, it will be better for the town. I am a slayerette. I'm pretty sure this is vague enough to not give too much away, and hopefully it will be enough to mesh with your info about me.

Cam

[mathcam]

Wow. I'm not sure what to make of that.

In any case, I was thinking that revealing the name would be giving away too much, but the more I think about it, the less it really hurts anything. I'm Kennedy. It's not like scum couldn't have guessed it by this point anyway.

Okay, now we're one dead Tactix away from being ever-closer to winning this game.

Cam

[mathcam]

Perhaps a prod of FD would be in order?

[mathcam]

So...anyone got any notes?

I'll leave my list of suspicions until we get all of our info out in the open.

Cam

[mathcam]

It definitely seems like the choice is between Vraak and jedi, but I was leaning toward Vraak over jedi. If jedi is scum, why did he send me a note incriminating his own godfather? Do you think he's an SK?

Cam

[mathcam]

I don't claim to know jediknight's style, but I just can't see him turning in his godfather like that. If he were scum, why would he even

have

that ability? I just don't see any explanation where jedi is scum.

Vraak's posts on this page have convinced me even further,

especially

the

You know what ZONEACE, I'm going to trust you on this one.

Sucking up to an investigative role?

Vote: Vraak X

.

If lynching Vraak ends the game, awesome. If not, we'll take another look tomorrow.

Are we being too quick in dismissing Xander from the possible scum list? Xander

was

evil in a couple of episodes...

Cam

[mathcam]

I got no note. Olio?

Cam

[mathcam]

Olio's dead. Let's pretend I didn't say that.

Cam

[mathcam]

If lynching Vraak ends the game, awesome. If not, we'll take another look tomorrow.

Little Freudian slip there, Monsieur Mathcam?

Huh? How was that scummy? If you're the last scum, then we're done as soon as we lynch you. Unless you're rooting for another team, that sure sounds awesome to me.

ZONEACE, there

is

a preview button.

Cam

[mathcam]

So PBuG couldn't lose? That doesn't seem very fun for him...

Cam

[mathcam]

I'm not sure what your point is there, but KE had 13 posts in the game...

Cam

[mathcam]

Kennedy.

Cam

[mathcam]

I think it might be the first time in history that on the same day, the mafia voluntarily decided to honestly reveal all three of their roles.

Cam

[mathcam]

There were plenty of unfairities on both sides, ZONEACE, so I think they probably balanced each other out.

Cam

[mathcam]

Well, it told you that Jasmine was scum, for one. And even if it was hard to do, you guys had FD cleared for the whole game.

Second, having it revealed that Tactix was lynched "because something happened on a previous night" could have been devastating. That essentially ruined our whole plan...the town now

knew

that scum knew that Tactix might have a lynch immunity, and would thus be more willing to sacrifice him (which we did, and we did).

Third, right after we started to take advantage of the town/scumness being revealed upon death, I posted something, and within a couple of hours of my post, WW had updated the front post to include all that information.

Essentially, any time we came up with a plan, game mechanics stopped it from working, and in some cases, made us look scummier than we needed to look.

Cam

[mathcam]

That doesn't make any sense at all. You're telling me that if it came down to Buffy, Faith, Giles, Xander, Angel, Riley, and Kennedy, that

Kennedy

would be the last one lynched?

Cam

[mathcam]

Right, ZONEACE, but we were also handicapped by the number of pro-town players were also clearly pro-town (see the previous post).

Cam

[mathcam]

Yeah, sorry about that, KE. I thought it was pretty clear that you were truly neutral )but I had extra info being scum), and if I were pro-town, I would have fought to keep you alive. You played it fine.

Cam

[mathcam]

This was fun in my opinion

Mine too. Thanks for modding, WW!

Cam

[mathcam]

On the other hand his losing of nerves wasn't pretty and through all the name-calling and yelling it's hard to see any wisdom in his words.

Let me just say how nice that was for us scum.

Cam