Mini 1327: Murder in the Louvre- Day 6

[Zar]

VOTE: UberNinja

Ninjas can obviously murder without being detected.

[Zar]

so you have no reason to belive otherwise...that means your default is that everyone is scum? so the empty Zar slot for example, it is scum too? why not lynch it?

O_o
anyway, you're probably not retarded, so you're trolling.. oh well~

eh, ninja'd by three posts:
@uber:
firstly, I didn't see it was broken till next time I got to the page; if I'm not online with others like now, I just submit and ctrl w, I don't look at the post I made.
secondly, I suppose that even if I did see it I wouldn't care enough to fix it, since it was a random vote, not to be taken seriously.
third - are you seriously asking this?

Hey! My Slot isn't empty! </3

Anyway:

Me and Vi are going to make cute little tiger babies that wear hats and ties and look all innocent.

Your babies can be innocent, even if you're not xD.

Now seriously why are you all voting Parama and not the Ninja?

Look at him, he backed out of his push before it got out hand, but opted on leaving a placeholder. Already worrying about looking good?

[Zar]

@Ninja Yep, I'm half of HL.

As for your META link, thanks for sharing, but I don't think I will be using it anytime soon. META is something players can handpick to point at. I rather focus on your in-game behavior.

[Zar]

Quilford: do you have any scumreads? / suspects?

[Zar]

00berninja reads as noobtown trying too hard, not particularly scummy. shos, on the other hand, is flailing scum.

Care to ellaborate on the reasons for both opinions?

[Zar]

What exactly is he case on Parama, again?

[Zar]

Yeah it's true.

I don't know why I'm not being lynched really but I'll accept it :B

Parama = Meh.

I think you could maybe tell if there are other things/players you find suspicious besides your shos thoughts, rather than pulling a victim card. #justsayin'

[Zar]

00berninja reads as noobtown trying too hard, not particularly scummy

. shos, on the other hand, is flailing scum.

Care to ellaborate on the reasons for both opinions?

diddin: You've already covered your thoughts on shos.

What about UberNinja's posts makes you feel this way?? (underlined for clarity)

[Zar]

Re-reading shos, I don't like how the accusations he has made so far have all spun around himself. Strikes me as OMGUSSy

Shos: who do you currently suspect? Is there anyone who hasn't been all over you you who you find scummy?

[Zar]

Zar, are you scum?

Nope.

(Ninja: just go read your ROLE PM closely, you'll notice my name is not listed among your night time buddies. xD)

tell me then
at exactly which post did RVS end?

Okay Parama, please tell me you're not implying that RVS is a well-defined and separate game stage?

[Zar]

whatever I think is scummy, I mention, Zar. so you can go over my posts and see about specifics; so far there haven't been incredible scumslips in my opinion, but only slightly scummy things. Diddin and Uber and Parama are my top three so far. I think the case on quilford isn't quite legit, but I want to see more about how people play here so I'm kinda avoiding stating my thoughts about that.

^^ I think this is a genuine response and most like to come from a townie player. So I'm currently leaning townish on shos.

also, you can see my last post right on top of you for example - what's OMGUSy in my play? O_o

What I considered OMGussy of your play comes from me ISOing you. It seemed to me your suspicions on players are focused on those that have either attacked you or voted you.

[Zar]

i was getting shitty gut reactions from Parama's voters because of the way they handled the wagon, but I find their reasoning for parama being scum as valid

Can you elaborate on this? If their reasoning for Parama being scum is valid, aren't you implying that either 1. they're bussing Parama or 2. there's more than one scumgroup?

Furc, read the link I posted to Mini 1318. You too, Chiaro. It's 3 pages tops; not asking you to meta me or anything, but it's stupid to lynch someone on page 3, and I just destroyed a town that did it to a VI. Shos, while he may be a VI-scum, is still a bad idea to lynch. The guy in Mini 1318 literally claimed scum, and he was still a townie.

I agree that it would be a bad idea to lynch shos. However, I don't think any player except maybe shos himself saw the wagon going anywhere, and I don't think you're an exception. As such, I see your words and unvote as oppotunistic white-knighting.

However, you were also the first to draw attention to Parama, who I'm also finding scummy for claiming scum. Frankly, I wasn't comfortable calling him out on it due to knowledge of his meta but Vi's vote gives me more confidence. I'm not sure what to make of your interactions with him

.

Chiaro basically promised to come with more contribution about three RL days ago and this is the only thing he has managed to produce? Really?

Ew. This has to be one of the worst posts (if not, the worst) in this thread so far. First of all its so wishy washy it hurts. It also takes the opportunity to tag along with another's opinion. (Which is what, the second time Chiaro parrots another players thoughts?). It also looks like something a buddy would use as an excuse to vote for a partner.

UNVOTE

VOTE:CHIAROSICADA

[Zar]

Zar you disappoint me

why?

As for being wishy-washy, I've gotten that both as town and as scum but I don't agree with the accusation. Mafia's a nuanced game and town lacks information. I think it's worse to have certainty of players' alignments on page 3, which some people in this game have claimed to have.

How do you think your contribution is helping?

Why are people voting chiaro again?

IMO, The few posts where Chiaro has allegedly contributed take stances only after other players have stated an intents. Chiaro's general tone and opinions land in a safe zone. Being wishy washy is a good way of sensing momentum to hop into a wagon. Chiaro doesn't strike me as truly engaged on the scumhunt at this point.

I also think this post is a good reason to keep voting Chiaro from his own words:

My philosophy as town is generally to be transparent with my thoughts, even if others might call it sheeping. The theory is that my towniness will show through eventually to other town who think similarly... but I guess that's not true, and I suppose can understand why. And everyone should be afraid of being lynched, town included. We only know our own alignment and you're helping town by not getting lynched.

In other news, I need to do more than defend myself and give the game a re-read.

I don't see any scum-hunting intent, only an interest in giving the impression of looking town. Furthermore, it sounds as another bid for more time. Somehow, I don't bode well with players that keep saying they will come back without delivering. It's a good strategy for scum to look like they are trying to make an effort to help, and I suspect this is one of those cases.

[Zar]

your vote is bad

Is this addressed to me? Why is my vote bad?

[Zar]

Ok, after re-reading, someone stuck out to me like a sore thumb.
Zar.
I barely even noticed him before this, but now that I've studied his play, it's almost

all

bad.
He asks questions instead of asserting opinions.

How can you claim you have barely even noticed me, when you've addressed questions to me more than once?

He rarely even follows up on those questions.

People need time to deliver answers. If I chose not to keep harassing them with the same question, it's because my focus is in something that strikes me as more suspicious at the time.

He rarely takes a concrete stance on anything.

Oh but I have. I called you scum, and gave reason for it. I call Chiaro scum, and gave the reasons for it. The fact that you don't like me calling you scum or that you don't like my Chiaro case doesn't mean I don't take a stances. Notice I keep my vote where my suspicions are?

He stays out of the spotlight on purpose.

How is calling for a wagon and starting another one willfully staying out of the spotlight?

He posts just enough to avoid lurkerhunter notice.

Uh no. I post when I find things that seem suspicious. Not that this thread is a haven of thriving activity anyway.

He doesn't rock the boat; so as not to make waves.

?? Are you a poet now?

He randomly defends his Chiaro vote unnecessarily.

No. Diddin wanted to know why people where voting Chiaro. I voted him first, so I decided to explain my reasons to vote him and given Chiaro's reaction to votes on him decided to explain why I felt my vote was still good.

And now we'll go through his entire ISO.

I think I'll just respond to wherever you've said something that can be considered an opinion, not where you've paraphrased me for fluffing. Let's see:

Look at him, he backed out of his push before it got out hand, but opted on leaving a placeholder. Already worrying about looking good?

More RVS stuff, half-ass smear of me trying to look good (i.e. the only stance he's taken so far... and the only reason it's backed up with a vote is because his RVS vote was already on me).

I kept my vote on you because you suddenly claimed to have discovered scum after an obvious joke.

Quilford: do you have any scumreads? / suspects?

Asks a question. Doesn't follow up on it.

Quilford was pursuing Parama after I came back?

Parama = Meh
I think you could maybe tell if there are other things/players you find suspicious besides your shos thoughts, rather than pulling a victim card. #justsayin'

Either this is coaching a scumbuddy, or it's coaching a townie. I can't tell which.

ANSWER: None of the above. I'm saying Parama's reaction strikes me as unhelpful rather than alignment telling. Parama = Meh = Null.

Zar, are you scum?

Nope.
(Ninja: just go read your ROLE PM closely, you'll notice my name is not listed among your night time buddies. xD)

Nervous reaction joke, fearing that saying "Nope" wouldn't be convincing enough... then jokes about me being scum instead of him.
It's becoming obvious.

That you're stretching? Yeah, It is becoming obvious. Because what I am doing there is asserting my suspicion on you in a condescending tone.

tell me then
at exactly which post did RVS end?

Okay Parama, please tell me you're not implying that RVS is a well-defined and separate game stage?

Takes a dig at Parama for what Parama is extremely obviously already criticizing someone else for.

a) not paying attention to context
b) trying to make someone else look bad/foolish

Nothing in Parama's question makes it clear that he's not implying what I asked him. I wanted clarification.

whatever I think is scummy, I mention, Zar. so you can go over my posts and see about specifics; so far there haven't been incredible scumslips in my opinion, but only slightly scummy things. Diddin and Uber and Parama are my top three so far. I think the case on quilford isn't quite legit, but I want to see more about how people play here so I'm kinda avoiding stating my thoughts about that.

^^ I think this is a genuine response and most like to come from a townie player. So I'm currently leaning townish on shos.

also, you can see my last post right on top of you for example - what's OMGUSy in my play? O_o

What I considered OMGussy of your play comes from me ISOing you. It seemed to me your suspicions on players are focused on those that have either attacked you or voted you.

Did his consideration regarding shos' OMGUSy behavior revert, based on his new "currently leaning townish" read on shos?
No, but it's convenient to have a "leaning townish" read on shos if he does end up flipping town.

Eh, last time I checked, we really don't have a certainty of anyone's alignment. The best way I know to narrow my suspect pool relies on reactions to votes and reactions to reactions. So, based on this, I find players more suspicious than others based on the way they respond to posts. Also being OMGUssy =/= being scum, it only means that the reason driving those cases doesn't seem good.

Is it conclusive that he's scum? No. But it's surprisingly unnoticeable and I'm getting strange vibes from it.

Wishy-washy.

I'll be honest: before I made this post, I was like 100% convinced Zar was scum. As I went through the ISO and commented on everything though, I began to see that a lot of what he was saying could possibly come from a town mindset too... Even so, it's striking me as odd, and if I was a cop, he's who I'd inspect tonight -- no doubt about it.

This is a pretty safe stance. It asserts a supposed scumread, but then quickly backs off. It suggests game strategy, which could well be interpreted as an attempt of pretending to be helpful without being fully committed . The tone of the case to me like what somebody would do if he were interested in sensing the momentum to try to divert a wagon. Whether this case is a direct result of the Chiaro wagon is TBD.

[Zar]

Cool story bro, what's your stance on Yosarian then?

Yosarian strikes me as townish from his contributions.

#118 + #143 strike me as honest suspicion of Parama.
#145 I liked his response to UN's 144, who seems eager to stretch whatever is happening.
#154 feels like a genuine pro-town response. Day 1 is mostly for gathering information. True, you may find certain players suspicious, but hardly you will have a hard opinion on everyone (or on most players) by page 7.
#380 I like that he's asking for explanations of cases on other people have.
#403 & #414 look like ideas coming from an innocent mindset. I agree with him on what I would expect from someone looking for possible connections in the scumhunt. It's not like Kanye's case on Quilford is based on these connections (which would make a terrible case).

[Zar]

Hey you. Quilford wagon.

I'm not in the wagon because I don't really get where the hell all the quilford hate comes from. @Kanye: How exactly do you find that quilford's D1 joke votes are damning evidence?

Being pissed and asking for a replacement doesn't really strike me as a scumtell, it strikes me as a theatrical from somoene who doesn't think he can reason with whomever is pushing for his wagon.

As for the replacement, I don't see Elmo doing anything striking me as odd or weird to make me want to lynch him.

[Zar]

Not liking my reread of Furcolow: just noticed all his votes and cases have piled up on running wagons.

#43 fourth vote on the shos wagon
#114 is a parrot of my #80 (and second vote on UN)
#197 is the third vote again on the shos wagon
#312 is the fourth vote on the Quilford/Elmo wagon

Any thoughts on this?

[Zar]

I looked at 487 and saw scummalicious scum

Can you explain what you meant to say in 354, then?

chiaro is actually a good lynch, lots of fencesitting going on from that slot. shos first though

this is it.
diddin/chiaro

convincing enough

unvote, vote: chiaro

[Zar]

Any words on UN's relationship to the Quilford/Elmo slot?

I am a dissuaded of thinking they could be scum together, mostly based on these two posts:

If your slot isn't town I'm going to fucking murder you. Do something goddamn useful.

Kanye has no reason to diligently tunnel on the Quilford slot as scum, with so much other fucking fodder in this game. I read his convinction as stronk and value the support behind my top wagon.

The replacement has done nothing to alleviate my scum read on it, especially after voting for Kanye.

At this point in the game, scum really have no choice but to attack their attackers.

So do you want me to go after you as well as Kayne? I italicized about your "scum read" on my slot (Quils replacement)
It seemed you voted Quil on a case that he flip flopped like John Kerry and replaced out under pressure. Looking at your reasons they're not half bad but for the wrong reasons. Right now your tunneling on me is quite laughable. What I don't get is you want more votes because this wagon is stalling. I attack Kayne and Vi joins almost instantly to vote him as well. Really I don't have a good read on you and Uber is probscum along with Kayne. But thats a reach there.

You just said a few posts ago that I'm chainsawing. That term only applies when both are scum, if I'm not mistaken.

If I'm probscum, why are you not voting me? Who are the scum in the game, only the people attacking you?

I don't think either of these two posts is likely to come from a partner.

[Zar]

fos buddy vote townie

except shos is actually possibly scum maybe

idunnolol

^^

Somehow, i don't think scum would give this as an answer, at least with all the attention Parama has been gathering.

I think scum tends to be more calculated in their posts, more even so if they've been suspected on day one.

[Zar]

Summation of the game for Katsuki:

Quickwagon on shos D1, I unvote because it I just recently won a game as scum that started with a quickhammer on D1, Parama starts acting scummy and we wagon him, shos wagon disintegrates as people go over there instead, YOS IS SCUM, Parama cries foul, people start switching to voting other people, I take flak for being myself, FURCOLOW IS AWESOME, Vi makes statements like "y u no vote Parama hnnnggg", nobody really listens, I keep trying to get people to vote for Yos, and he starts flexing his 2005 and telling people I'm scummy for shit that makes no sense, Nuwen starts saying Quilford is scum for calling her and Yos scum, people wagon Quilford, he replaces out for Elmo TeH AzN, YOS IS SCUM STILL, Chiarosicada has been suspected vaguely by a lot of people since then, CHARTER IS PROBTOWN, kanye keeps throwing shit around to see where it sticks because that's all he's done all game, tunneling on Quilford because he's the major wagon, Nuwen also thinks Quilford's slot is scum with all her poor misguided heart, I keep saying that YOS IS SCUM to everyone but nobody believes me,

and currently we have a good-to-great wagon on kanye that seems pretty likely to reveal scum

, and then Pirate Chemist replaces Chiarosicada and you replace diddin who lurked a lot. Throughout all this time, Zar hasn't been doing much except being indignantly self-righteous yet strangely under-the-radar, which is why I didn't remember to mention him until now.

Based on my patented "find scum by looking for experienced/weighty players who don't seem to be playing up to snuff" methodology, scum lies in Yos, Vi, and Zar. According to the "scummy people are scum" methodology (which is widely overused, based on it's relative inaccuracy), Chiaro, Parama, and I are scum.

I tend to think it's a mix of the two, but the right mix isn't revealing itself to me yet. Perhaps tomorrow.

Everything else you'll have to read for yourself.

So Kanye is in neither of your lists, but you're voting him because he's pretty likely to reveal scum? WTF?

[Zar]

@Kanye: How exactly do you find that quilford's D1 joke votes are damning evidence?

[Zar]

shos, you said you'd take another look at Furcolow. What do you think of his case/vote pattern?

[Zar]

I am in favor of the Ninja wagon.

I also think the "voting block" is a cheap way of hiding a buddy among the crowd. The supposed "let's force scum to vote with us" can't work without a flip, and also tampers with possible voting analysis. Perfect environment to frame other players.

UNVOTE

VOTE: UBERNINJA

[Zar]

I'm not quite sure what the second part of this accusation is, except wildly overblown.
TBH "wildly overblown" kind of sums up my opinion of all things UberNinja.

I don't see how this alleged voting alliance can work effectively when we don't even have anything certain to narrow our suspect pool with. If this alliance is scum-driven, then they would protect each other as to not be among the lynch candidates, while still giving the false illusion of public consensus.

[Zar]

I'm not in the wagon because I don't really get where the hell all the quilford hate comes from. @Kanye: How exactly do you find that quilford's D1 joke votes are damning evidence?

i never said i was voting him for joke votes. dont know where you got that impression.

This is the post where you gave the reasons to why you thought quilford/elmo was scum:

want more reasons why i think quilford slot is scum? here you go:
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go
http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... er_sort=Go

^^ Is basically a link to the entire ISOs of both players, which includes quilford's joke votes. Since you said it was damning evidence, I was wondering what you were including into this criteria.

the initial vote was off him waffling hard as fuck on parama and trying to set up shit on yos/nuwen. since that, his reactions have been to try and act ragey and indignant at the votes on him (hes not good at this) and then he replaced out in a fashion similar to the way he did it as scum in a game both yos and i played with him before. all of that is more than enough for me to want him lynched.

being pissed and asking for a replacement isnt a scumtell, except for when that player has acted the same way before and it bears striking resemblance to their scumplay.

I don't really see how is introductory vote is waffling. It just feels like an inside joke. I can understand the concept of scum being able to stage anger, but I don't see scum-intent in wanting to extend the day phase to increase discussion.

and elmo has been scummy as fuck since he got back. he tried to play nice with me when he first replaced in and distance himself from quilford. when that failed he omgus'd and has done absolutely nothing of value since. my vote is not moving until elmo is lynched. hes caught fucking scum and im not letting him get away sorry!

Does this mean you won't switch your vote even if the Elmo wagon were not viable?

[Zar]

I don't see how this alleged voting alliance can work effectively

when we don't even have anything certain to narrow our suspect pool with

.

<image macro with the word "wat" goes here>

Most of Day One is for information gathering, IMO. We could have a good case, only if the scum is godawful playing.

If this alliance is scum-driven, then they would protect each other as to not be among the lynch candidates, while still giving the false illusion of public consensus.

How many times have you seen this done?

I've seen this in a Game where the Traitor managed to be named King by a Kingmaker. The Traitor narrowed the lynch candidates to four scummy town players, and let the town basically tear each other apart to take the scum to victory. I've also seen this in a game where another Traitor managed to save one of the Goons by discrediting the people on the wagon.

[Zar]

@zar obvious hyperbole.
and you dont see the scum intent behind someone not opposing a lynch and standing to the sidelines hoping for the vote to go through? i dont believe that.

are you talking about quilford's thoughts on the Parama lynch?

The way I see it, Day one is for information gathering. The shortest the day is, the least interactions there will be. This benefits the scum because they can get the night through with a low informative kill. And basically, we're left in a very similar position to the one we started on Day One if such thing happens.

[Zar]

I still think the Chiaro slot (replacement included) fits the profile of low activity scum.

As for Furcolow, I don't understand what this general positive impression is based on. Is it the aggressive tone? Can someone give be the basis of their Furcolow town read?

[Zar]

Seriously? WHY is Furc a top town read?

Furcolow stinks a la Roquefort.

unvote;
vote: shos

flailing

"I just want to say something to hop into your wagon."

unvote;
vote: uberninja

townread on both of the top wagons
i dislike the way uberninja is trying to get the wagon off of shos, but is setting up for an easy excuse to jump on with his "he's probably scum but I don't want to lynch him

yet

"

"Let me just repeat what Zar said"

analyze this, people. does this sound like scum to you?

I got a scumread on him, but I don't see that wagon going anywhere today
If it does pick up steam, I would jump on, because it has my support

I feel like he is flailing the same way shos did earlier in the game. Shos jumping onto your wagon, and then back off when it didn't build steam, has me questioning my read on you tbh.

"Yada Yada, I want to have an opportunity to say I suspected him before"

that was obviously a joke

not necessarily

you can be scum, but i don't see you making that gambit as scum, so you're being sarcastic

Wishy Washy

Vi's looking scummier
UN is now my strongest town read

placeholder on Vi.

So you think Vi is scum? I had a townread on her, but I'm feeling like some pressure there would be nice. I'm tired of her defenses, honestly, and am wondering if she's just trying to buy town cred

unvote;
vote: vi

I isod Nuwen, and I'm just now seeing it. There are much better candidates.

Huh? ViTown? What was 538 about?

And seriously, the only vote he's put that isn't a wagon hop was on me. And the reason? Asking other people where did FurcTown come from?

UNVOTE

VOTE FURCOLOW

[Zar]

look at UN's bandwagoning again. this is what, the 5th person he's voting already?

Eh, I don't see how that specifically is a reason for anyone to be scum. Some players just vote more than others.

[Zar]

i'm so sick of this day 1
can we lynch someone slready

preferrably scum?

no it's not a threat; but your last few posts are really void of any content.

Unabashed Uncensored Unleashed Unbridled Unrated Conjecture Time!

I am going back through to ISO all of these players (both simultaneously) and see what I can see. I'm not going to do 3 at once because that's stupid. But I can draw connections well enough based on 2 players, so here are the possible scum pairs, and I will give my thoughts on each along with the likelihood, when I get the chance.

Spoiler: Possible scum pairings

shos
Vi

shos
diddin/Katsuki

shos
QuilmoTeHAzN

shos
Pirate Chiermosticada

shos
Yosarian2

shos
Parama

shos
Nuwen

shos
Zar

shos
charter

shos
kanyeknowsbest

shos
Furcolow

Vi
diddin/Katsuki

Vi
QuilmoTeHAzN

Vi
Pirate Chiermosticada

Vi
Yosarian2

Vi
Parama

Vi
Nuwen

Vi
Zar

Vi
charter

Vi
kanyeknowsbest

Vi
Furcolow

diddin/Katsuki
QuilmoTeHAzN

diddin/Katsuki
Pirate Chiermosticada

diddin/Katsuki
Yosarian2

diddin/Katsuki
Parama

diddin/Katsuki
Nuwen

diddin/Katsuki
Zar

diddin/Katsuki
charter

diddin/Katsuki
kanyeknowsbest

diddin/Katsuki
Furcolow

QuilmoTeHAzN
Pirate Chiermosticada

QuilmoTeHAzN
Yosarian2

QuilmoTeHAzN
Parama

QuilmoTeHAzN
Nuwen

QuilmoTeHAzN
Zar

QuilmoTeHAzN
charter

QuilmoTeHAzN
kanyeknowsbest

QuilmoTeHAzN
Furcolow

Pirate Chiermosticada
Yosarian2

Pirate Chiermosticada
Parama

Pirate Chiermosticada
Nuwen

Pirate Chiermosticada
Zar

Pirate Chiermosticada
charter

Pirate Chiermosticada
kanyeknowsbest

Pirate Chiermosticada
Furcolow

Yosarian2
Parama

Yosarian2
Nuwen

Yosarian2
Zar

Yosarian2
charter

Yosarian2
kanyeknowsbest

Yosarian2
Furcolow

Parama
Nuwen

Parama
Zar

Parama
charter

Parama
kanyeknowsbest

Parama
Furcolow

Nuwen
Zar

Nuwen
charter

Nuwen
kanyeknowsbest

Nuwen
Furcolow

Zar
charter

Zar
kanyeknowsbest

Zar
Furcolow

charter
kanyeknowsbest

charter
Furcolow

kanyeknowsbest
Furcolow

Everyone else feel free to comment on this as well, or make your own.
I've left myself out of this list as I know I'm not scum, but if you want to add me in your own, be my guest.
It'll be more material for me to analyze.

UN-useful

without a lynch flip.

Zar, juuuuuuuust checking, but are you at all conscious of the game you are playing right now?~

Honestly, can we get over with this day?

Tiers:

Tier 1:
Would Gladly Lynch:
Uberninja, Pirate, Furcolow
Tier 2:
Would Compromise (in order of preference):
Elmo, Kanye, Nuwen, Katsuki, Parama
Tier 3:
Town Reads:
shos, Charter, Vi, Yosarian

[Zar]

Tiers are also the response to 810.

We better try to agree on the lynch, we can't still be on the Rainbow Voting here.

[Zar]

Honestly, can we get over with this day?

UNVOTE
VOTE FURCOLOW

Why is he a town read of yours?

[Zar]

Tiers:

Tier 1:
Would Gladly Lynch:
Uberninja, Pirate, Furcolow

Tier 2:
Would Compromise (in order of preference):
Elmo, Kanye, Nuwen, Katsuki, Parama
Tier 3:
Town Reads:
shos, Charter, Vi, Yosarian

[Zar]

@shos: Fine.

UNVOTE
VOTE UBERNINJA

[Zar]

I want to unvote Yos2 for Zar but at the same time I don't want to unvote Yos2.

Also; Zar? Really?

Why is it that ALL of your scum reads this game make zero sense to me, Vi?

Because you're scum? I mean seriously. We're talking about the guy who made

I am in favor of the Ninja wagon.

I also think the "voting block" is a cheap way of hiding a buddy among the crowd. The supposed "let's force scum to vote with us" can't work without a flip, and also tampers with possible voting analysis. Perfect environment to frame other players.

UNVOTE
VOTE: UBERNINJA

this invisivote with crappy reasons, the guy who posts this right after people say "consolidate your votes losers" and even goes as far as to say

Honestly, can we get over with this day?

, and then goes ahead and

@shos: Fine.

UNVOTE
VOTE UBERNINJA

makes this L-1 vote without really bothering to defend Furcolow over UN.

L-1? It's L-3 at that point.

And for what point, according to you, should I continue to pursue the dead-end Furcolow wagon over UN? Other than looking the other way + agreeing having him in a voting block, you haven't bothered saying what exactly makes any of you think he's town aligned. None of you, with the exception of Yosarian and shos, have stated reasons for thinking he's innocent.

All we've been doing here is go for ages over the same wagon. I'm honestly worried the lack of scrutiny in that direction (Furc), but if all that's left is compromising, so be it.

[Zar]

And for what point, according to you, should I continue to pursue the dead-end Furcolow wagon over UN?

Trying to look Town.

Also, failing.

Meh.

I thought you'd be a better player, TBH.

Still not responding.

[Zar]

@un wth

also i dont think we can apply the ellitell to pirate. it looks to me like he just site flaked completely. saying that he was extremely active in another game is exaggerating the fact that he made all of 4 posts in another game that was much further along than this one less than a day after his last post here. that said, i didnt see his supposed scum claim before. i think thats actually a pretty solid strike against him. i still want to reread before i move my vote but as of now thats where its gonna go.

when you do finish your reread, would you list your tiers?

[Zar]

Hmmm... in the interest of gaining information, I'll vote Vi, Yos, or Chiaro/replacement, and I'm warming up to Nuwen as scum too.

Explain to me, how you can have a Viscum case, and then claim to vote her in interest of gaining information.

@shos: Fine.

UNVOTE
VOTE UBERNINJA

Why's this vote sound like it's ready, waiting, and begging to be blamed on shos?

Just saiyan

Because you are inventing reasons to suspect me. Just saiyan.

[Zar]

and that is one of my problems with Uberscum. It feels like he's inventing cases which he does not believe in, in order to look contributory.

[Zar]

and that is one of my problems with Uberscum. It feels like he's inventing cases which he does not believe in, in order to look contributory.

Have you ever seen me-scum before?

How is this relevant to your in-game behavior?

Do I sound insincere to you?

Yes you do.

Statements like the one in #973 make for a funny choice of words about a player you have been making a case upon. It is similar to what you did in #519, while explaining reasons on keeping a vote on someone you did not list among your suspects.

- spring

[Zar]

The fact you're both still trying to chop my head off feels scummy to me,

since you *both* know I act hella scummy regardless of my alignment.

The only thing the above statement is telling me is that we should analyze you based on your behavior in game and not rely on your META, which would be as useful as the shell of a cooked escargot.

You are also admitting that the underlying reason you suspect me is based on me suspecting you. How is that not short-sighted and total OMGUS?

[Zar]

Zar is scum. No two ways about it. I'll eat my finest feathered bonnet if he's town.

Would you at least bother on giving reasons? All you're doing here is placing a bet. :rollseyes:

[Zar]

ITT Zar lets Furcofluff go by without calling it.

and yet you finally decide to barely mention him AFTER being called out for it?

I'm glad you're out of "u suk" images. Because I'd borrow a few and line them up for you.

[Zar]

Do you think his behavior is pro-town?

[Zar]

@mod: in favor extension

[Zar]

UN: Other than talking about your scumread on Yosarian and Vi, all you did there was put up a list of speculative partnerships in your spoiler tags.

I fail to see how this is significantly useful unless we have a lynch flip: and by the way, here's another Uber-fail: if you believe Vi and Pirate are likely partners, why are you're listing Pirate among your town-reads? Please explain how this is not contradictory.

[Zar]

UN:

>_>

Let's take a look at what you said about me:

"He doesn't mention Yosarian until I ask him in 419 what he thinks. Has a town read on Yosarian. Great! Yosarian comes in post 800+ and mentions him. Their scum tactic is to mention each other about every 400 posts."

Do you seriously think that's a case?

[Zar]

So let me get a read on this wagon.

Ninja, Kanye, Furcolow, and Elmo

Two of my ScumPicks + 2 barely useful players.

:/

[Zar]

Ninjascum: I still fail to see how anything I've said about you changes.

[Zar]

I'll go take a stroll along the halls of the museum while you use your cervau de foie gras to explain to me your UberScum read on me, k?

[Zar]

I fail to see any case on Zar.
it seems to me that Uberninja has tried to check Yos2 for scum couples and saw he had little interaction with Zar, and therefore concluded that Zar is scum. I have no idea why, tho.

This adds to my case against Uberninja.

^ QFT

Well, at least I am happy that Ninjascum's reads may be confirmed un-useful soon enough.

[Zar]

Everyone else gets it. The only reason to pretend not to is either because you're scum with Zar or because you're Zar.

Well, and then there's shos, who I don't think is pretending; he actually really seems to be that dense/tunneling on me.
Try ISOing me and Ctrl-F-ing "Zar", shos.

Uberscum, if you really believe your case on me, why aren't you writing it?

[Zar]

Spoiler: shos

shos / Vi - I think shos is town, so no.
shos / Zar - I think shos is town, so no.

Nothing here.

Spoiler: Vi (scum)

Vi / Zar - They haven't said enough about each other for me to decide. I am independently suspicious of both of them.

Has a wishy washy stance on speculated suspicion. Admits to having nothing.

Spoiler: diddin/Katsuki

diddin/Katsuki / Zar - The only mention on either side is Zar saying he'd consider Katsuki a compromise lynch, in 862.

This is not correct (Forgetful Ninja?). Your first attempted fluff case on me acknowledged me questioning diddin, twice. Still nothing.

Spoiler: QuilmoTeHAzN

QuilmoTeHAzN / Zar - Meh, I don't even want to read this. Quil is so likely town by this point that looking for associative tells here would be just as fruitless as looking for them between myself and myself.

Nothing here.

Spoiler: Pirate Chiermosticada

Pirate Chiermosticada / Zar - Chiaro has some good insight on Zar in his replacing out post #498 (link is just above here), where he says

"I don't like his cases on either me or UberNinja, seems to be tunneling hard and looking for evidence to justify his conclusions rather than the other way around. Scummy." <-- that right there isn't something one scum says about another. The end. Not scum together. This almost cements my town read on Chiaro and my scum read on Zar.

Zar calls Chiaro scummy and votes for him in 271. In post 326, Zar defends his voting of Chiaro, even though nobody has questioned it. In post 409, after I call him out on it, Zar says the he "decided to explain why I felt my vote was still good" randomly. Looool, scummy as fuck. Then in 685, he says "I still think the Chiaro slot (replacement included) fits the profile of low activity scum." but then NEVER MENTIONS HIM AGAIN. I am now 99% sure Zar is scum again.

#1) "looking for evidence to justify his conclusions rather than the other way around" <- what does that even mean?

#2) So you like that Chiaro doesn't like my cases on him or you. *acts surprised* (Hint: Core reason for Ninja voting me is here)

#3) Newsflash: I did mention him again, in my tiers post.

#4) BTW, you keep saying I "randomly defended" my chiaro vote. As I said in my response to your first attempted fluff-case on me, did you not read diddin's reasons for voting chiaro, which I gave.

Also FTR, there is nothing yet to make me rethink my stance on the Chiaro slot (Hiraki has yet to come with comments, reads, thoughts).

Spoiler: Yosarian2 (scum)

Yosarian2 / Zar - Zar doesn't mention Yos until post 419, after I ask him what he thinks of Yos. "Townish due to his contributions" is the reply. Well, then. Yos also gets a town read from Zar in 862. Fantastic. After that, that's it. No more from Zar regarding Yos. It appears his modus operandi in this case is to call his scumbuddy "townish" after 400 posts, then "town" after another 400. Don't expect him to mention his scumbuddy Yos again for another... 200 posts or so. It's not time yet.
Yos on the other hand is even more ludicrous/awful: His first mention of Zar is SIX hundred posts into the game, in post 596, where he's listed as "town" with no explanation. In post 932 he says "Zar? Really?", chiding Vi for mentioning unvoting him (Yos) to vote Zar. Yos talks about people

suspecting

Zar in post 982, but doesn't say anything about Zar himself. And that's it.

Roquefort-quality-smelling

raison

Making a partnership case without flips. :/

Spoiler: Parama

Parama / Zar -

Nothing.

Spoiler: Nuwen

Nuwen / Zar -

Nothing.

Zar is scum. No two ways about it. I'll eat my finest feathered bonnet if he's town.

Unvote; Vote: Zar

This can also be a vote for Yos. I prefer Zar at this point though.

UberNinja thinking: "Let me call another counter-wagon that's not me as a last resort. I've been soft-pushing it all along anyway."

CONCLUSION: UN's CASE ON ZAR = OMGUS + Speculative Partnerships.

Confirm Vote: UberNinja

[Zar]

EEBWOP = diddin asking reasons for voting chiaro.

[Zar]

If

@Zar 996: I don't really see any reason to believe Furcolow is scum atm. But that's not as important as the fact that you claim to think otherwise.

+

Do you think

[Furcolow's]

behavior is pro-town?

I don't see why not.

then explain

ITT Zar lets Furcofluff go by without calling it.

[Zar]

@Zar 1061 - I see no contradiction. You're not pushing the person you claim to be a more attractive scumread than UberNinja (who happened to have a burgeoning wagon).

I never said Furcolow that I had a more attractive scumread on Furcolow. Furcolow seems like an unlynchable target, quite a good d1 investigative prospect, IMO.

I am interested in your reasons for calling him Fluff while claiming his behavior is pro-town though. That's what I want you to explain.

[Zar]

I don't see how his votes are pro-active. All he's done is pile up in wagons started by others.

[Zar]

ITT Zar is trying his damnedest to make everyone else look scummy and inconsistent. ALL OF A SUDDEN.

Would have been great if he'd been doing that all game, no? Oh wait, now he's under pressure though he HAS to perform.

Ninjascum I'm still waiting for your grand case.

[Zar]

I don't see how his votes are pro-active. All he's done is pile up in wagons started by others.

Who was the first person to vote for you in this game? and for that matter, how many times has he tried to start a Vi wagon?

#1) Me. How long did he push for that after hopping into your wagon?
#2) when did he vote this so-called wagon he wished to start in you? You already had votes piled up.

[Zar]

Try looking for the votes in the thread Vi. I'm sure you can spot them?

[Zar]

^^ again admits to not having a case.

Really guys?

[Zar]

I T T = In this thread.

anyway.

Uh. Vi looks the best in my wagon, if you ask me.

[Zar]

BTW, Kanye did provide a reason.

@Kanye: currently, how does Elmo fall among your suspects?

[Zar]

1. Nervous scum joke when I asked him if he was scum in post 241. There are at least two other tells in this post too, but they're most likely too subtle for you to comprehend given what I've seen so far.

Way to misrepresent. Once again. Obviously you are desperately clinging to anything you can come up with.

2. He never sees fit to mention me, either as a town read, or as a scum read, until after I begin calling him scum. Then all of a sudden I'm bright and in the forefront of his radar. And now he's voting me and playing survivalistically. Talk about OMGUS caughtscum. The sad part is that fools like you and shos exist that will eat up his drivel and ask for more.

Who was the first person to spot your scummy placeholder on shos and to dismiss your attempt to use manipulative META?.

3. I'll repost my list from earlier:

He asks questions instead of asserting opinions.

Asking questions is how you get reactions. Opinions come from the answers.

He rarely even follows up on those questions.

No need to beat dead horses if nothing seems suspicious.

He rarely takes a concrete stance on anything.

Totally not true. You just don't happen to like my stances.

He stays out of the spotlight on purpose.

How is starting a wagon on chiaro, calling for scrutiny on an unusual suspect, and keeping my vote on you staying out of the spotlight? How would that not invite to scrutiny?

He posts just enough to avoid lurkerhunter notice.

I post when it's necessary, I'm not going to spam the game thread with filler for your satisfaction.

He doesn't rock the boat; so as not to make waves.

>_<

He randomly defends his Chiaro vote unnecessarily.

How is me responding to diddin random and unnecessary? I had a reason, I gave it.

4. He and Yos were FUCKING METHODICALLY IGNORING EACH OTHER until I called them out on it.

The reason you're using to make this "accusation" is your Yosscum read. It's not good because Yosarian's alignment is unconfirmed (unless you have inside information?). And here's the problem with this:

Assuming Yostown/Uberscum, as per my read:

1) You mislynch me, I flip town. You go on to D2 to tunnel on Yosarian.
2) You give up your attempts to mislynch me and manage to lynch Yosarian, if he flips town, you already have another wagon to tunnel on.

Assuming Yosarian is scum and partnered to Uberscum:

1) You realize both biggest wagons are scum, and thus decide to call a late third wagon.
2) You manage to save your buddy by not voting him on day one, while you figure out another way to save him on D2. In the meantime, you "assert" your intention by leaving him as second suspect, in case you need to bus him.

5. He's grabbing everything I say that's damning to him in the least, and then straw-manning it. Read his freakin iso.

Well, you do have a chunk of posts with scummy intent. I can't help but notice. :shrugs:

[Zar]

Plus, he seems all too happy for any support he can get on my wagon, not even noticing that he has had the Chiaro slot solidly in the scum section for weeks/months, but now has no qualms with Hiraki voting for me. As long as there are enough people voting for someone else so that HE is not lynched, he really could give zero fucks about who's lynched. Read his fucking posts for pete's sake.

Also, not true.

My tiers post show the players I won't be voting for.

[Zar]

Nah, I'm done.

I've said my piece and at least as many people agree with me as agree with the anti-me crowd.
I'm not gonna waste any more time here when I have other games to catch up in.

If somebody puts me at L-1 and wants me to claim, I suppose I'll have to, but I doubt I'll get lynched.

Y U GIVE UP.

What are, according to you, the two subtle tells there are in 241?

[Zar]

Well I suppose I should claim. I'm a town informative power role.

>_>

LYNCH HIM.

[Zar]

stop flaking. Also, I refuse to believe a self-respecting investigative role would out themselves like that.

[Zar]

Family trip.

@Mod V/LA until tuesday.

[Zar]

why the fuck would they kill elmo.

Flavor claiming is absurd, scum will probably have fake claims anyway.

Choosing to believe Yos' vig claim.

That means that either

1) shos' BP claim is legit or
2) scum witheld
3) good doc
4) whatever prevented the scum-kill.

Based on kanye's interaction with elmo all through D1, I'm leaning to think he's probably not guilty.

That means, imo:

Prob. Inno.: Yos (Vig), Kanye (Play)

Still not cleared: Charter, Furcolow, Hiraki, Katsuki, Nuwen, Parama, shos, Vi,

[Zar]

Let's do some voting pattern analysis.

Quilford/Elmo and UberNinja were competing wagons during early stage:
going to blue out confirmed innocents. Going to green out speculative PIs (Yosarian, Kanye) based on my previous post.
Scum benefits of having parallel town wagons competing.

Day 1 votecount 2

UberNinja (5)

: Zar, Chiarosicada, Furcolow, shos,

Yosarian2,

Quilford (3)

: charter, Nuwen,

kanyeknowsbest

Parama(2)

: Vi,

shos (2)

: diddin, Parama,

charter (1)

:

Quilford

Yosarian2 (1)

:

UberNinja

,

Not voting (0):

<3

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Unconfirmed players on the UN wagon: Zar, Chiaro, Furcolow, shos.
Unconfirmed players on the Q/E Wagon: charter, nuwen

Day 1 votecount 5

Quilford

Elmo TeH AzN (4):

Nuwen,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Yosarian2

, Furcolow,

Parama (3):

Vi, Chiarosicada, shos,

shos (3):

diddin,

UberNinja

, Parama,

Chiarosicada (2):

Zar, charter,

Nuwen (1):

Elmo teh AzN

Not voting (0):

<3

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Elmo TeH AzN replaces Quillford.

Unconfirmed players on the Q/E Wagon: Nuwen, Furcolow.

Day 1 votecount 6

Elmo TeH AzN (4):

Nuwen,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Yosarian2

, Furcolow,

Chiarosicada (3):

Zar, charter, Parama,

kanyeknowsbest (2)

: Elmo teh AzN, Vi,

Parama (2):

Chiarosicada, shos,

shos (2):

diddin, UberNinja,

Not voting (0):

<3

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Unconfirmed players in the Q/E wagon: Nuwen, Furcolow

Day 1 votecount 7

Chiarosicada (4):

Zar, charter, Parama, Vi,

Elmo TeH AzN (4):

Nuwen,

kanyeknowsbest, Yosarian2

, Furcolow,

Parama (2):

Chiarosicada, shos,

kanyeknowsbest (1)

: Elmo teh AzN,

shos (1):

diddin,

Yosarian2 (1):

UberNinja,

Not voting (0):

<3

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Unconfirmed players in the Q/E wagon: Nuwen, Furcolow

Day 1 votecount 17

(0) charter

(0) Elmo TeH AzN :

(0) Furcolow:

(0) Katsuki:

(0) kanyeknowsbest:

(0) Nuwen :

(0) Parama :

(0) shos:

(4)

UberNinja

:

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2

, Zar,

(4) Zar:

UberNinja

, Furcolow,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Elmo teh AzN

,

(2) Hiraki :

Parama, charter,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(1) Yosarian2:

Vi,

(1) Not voting :

Hiraki

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Deadline Extension

Support (7/7): Vi, Nuwen, Elmo, Zar, Katsuki, Hiraki, Yos

The new deadline is set to

Thursday May the 10th.

Countdown: (expired on 2012-05-10 12:00:00)

No further extension will be granted within this game-day.

Unconfirmed players in the Ninja Wagon: shos, Nuwen, Zar

Day 1 votecount 18

(0) charter

(0) Elmo TeH AzN :

(0) Furcolow:

(0) Katsuki:

(0) kanyeknowsbest:

(0) Nuwen :

(0) Parama :

(0) shos:

(0) Yosarian2:

(5) Zar:

UberNinja

, Furcolow,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Elmo teh AzN

, Vi,

(4)

UberNinja

:

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2

, Zar,

(2) Hiraki :

Parama, charter,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(1) Not voting :

Hiraki

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Unconfirmed players in the UN Wagon: shos, Nuwen, Zar.

Day 1 Final votecount

(0) charter

(0) Elmo TeH AzN :

(0) Furcolow:

(0) Katsuki:

(0) kanyeknowsbest:

(0) Nuwen :

(0) Parama :

(0) shos:

(0) Yosarian2:

(7) UberNinja:

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2

, Zar, Hiraki, Furcolow,

Elmo teh AzN

,

(2) Hiraki :

Parama, charter, Vi

(2) Zar:

UberNinja

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(0) Not voting :

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Uberninja has been lynched.

Unconfirmed players in the UN wagon: shos, Nuwen, Zar, Hiraki, Furcolow.


So: who's been in BOTH town confirmed wagons? Furcolow, Chiaro/Pirate/Hiraki, Nuwen


I doubt Furcolow and Nuwen are scum together, unless they have chosen to go by voting together. Hiraki was the turning point of the wagon between me and UberNinja. Had Ninja flipped guilty, he would have been a VPI. Scum would have known both wagons favored them, so all they would have to do is wait for one of the wagons to pick enough steam to lynch and switch.... and who did just that?

VOTE: FURCOLOW

{FURCOLOW > Hiraki > Nuwen}

[Zar]

ITT:
Zar pulls out completely unnecessary vote count analysis to simultaneously throw Nuwen's name out as a suspect and then conveniently ignore her in the analysis.

Excuse me? How is this completely unnecessary?

[Zar]

How is this completely unnecessary?

words flavor hate flavor words words hate hate flavor VOTE COUNT WALL

Game rules

Flavour in this game may help you, it may also trick you. You are encouraged to do your own research.

going with the second part.

[Zar]

alright, Vi-oh-ever-so-wise

use your professor paragon pretend title to sell me a Nuwen over Furcolow case. Go.

[Zar]

alright, Vi-oh-ever-so-wise

use your professor paragon pretend title to sell me a Nuwen over Furcolow case. Go.

First, I'd like to kindly point out that your Burden of Proficiency argument makes you look like an a-hole. You're welcome.

Hey! Where's the love? I thought you'd marry me one day .

Nuwen:
*Slammed through the UberNinja case Yesterday as a policy lynch when it was for the most part pretty bloody obvious that UN was Town
*Has offered nothing involving actual hunting of scum except the minimum (see scumlist consisting of everyone except herself and three other players), preferring to keep to speculating on game flavor
*Has lurked like a boss
*From what I'm told, SHOULD be the one doing the vote count analysis (especially given all those threats about tearing up the people off the UberNinja wagon), not you

Furcolow:
*Has not put out a lot of posts or done much Furcraging in this game, which does count against him, but
*has bothered to put his vote on people who have no votes a LOT in this game, which doesn't make a lot of sense for scum to do as often as he has.

Ok, I'm going to prioritize re-reading these two, then. Will get back to you on this later today.

What do you think about the vote on Yosarian on Day2?

[Zar]

Hey, Katsuki! this is the moment where you tell us who do you suspect.

Give us your top two scumreads.

[Zar]

And you don't think Nuwen is Hiraki's buddy? I think it's pretty obvious she is.

Hi. Make a case.

[Zar]

and this is the moment where everyone should be focusing on re-reads...

so making this Katsuki question public. Everyone: top scumreads + reasons.

[Zar]

The Case on Nuwen:

Spoiler: Summary

#120 Casts a vote on Parama based on META. after a brief prod of quilford, never mentions parama since. Never explained what was the evil META used as a reason.

#129 at the moment, was not a bad vote, but now looks like Nuwen was looking for something easily justifiable to jump onto and keep parked on (this vote lasted from #129 all the way through #561, moment which Nuwen failed to use to explore anything else).

#138 - #227 - #317 is part of the quilford tunnel, a case that looks bad now that there is a town flip.

#228 the early dismissal of charter from voting Vi does not feel pro-town. It came at the moment the quilford wagon was waning.

#710, #717, #724, #968 flavor speculation

#897: Calls out the waning UN wagon, tries to keep it from stalling. (Competing wagon at the moment was Vi).
#1241: yeah, I can see how Nuwen could be partnered with Hiraki based on this post.

The flavor in Hiraki's vision claims can really only be understood in one way: Yos dropped a French medallion at the scene of Elmo's viggin', which fits with the flavor of Yos' nameclaim. Hiraki has NO incentive to reveal this information as scum. He could have stayed silent, said ANYTHING condemning about Yos.

Actually, this makes all the sense in the world for scum to do. One of the most valuable things to garner in the game is trust. Once you've established a certaind degree of credibility, players are least likely to scrutinize your actions and to try to analyze the intent behind them. A Good way for scum to do this is to somehow demonstrate an intent of helping out by sharing out results from any power roles they may have.

#1242: #1245, more flavor speculation

Worth Noting: I have noticed that Nuwen has missed out names from players a few times. Is this something Nuwen commonly does? The name crossing reads as careless, and possibly having no intent in engaging in solving the game.

VOTES BY NUWEN ON D1

Spoiler: Votes

#8 - Yosarian2
#120 - Parama
#129 - Quilford
#561 - Uberninja

Responses to Vi:

Nuwen:
*Slammed through the UberNinja case Yesterday as a policy lynch when it was for the most part pretty bloody obvious that UN was Town

Didn't Nuwen say it was Hiraki being policy lynched? Or was this another of her name confusions? Nuwen seemed determined on NijaScum to be later claiming this was a policy lynch.

*Has offered nothing involving actual hunting of scum except the minimum (see scumlist consisting of everyone except herself and three other players),

Agreeing with this. Nuwen kept her suspect pool very narrow on D1. It consisted on quilford/Elmo scum + UN (both innocent).

*preferring to keep to speculating on game flavor

Focusing solely on flavor is a good way of looking busy. Nuwen's latest renditions have been dedicated mostly to flavor discussion rather than working on narrowing her suspect pool. Considerably suspicious after looking at the result of her only two D1 suspects, since the rest of her focus was dedicated on flavor on that day as well.

*Has lurked like a boss

In regards to Nuwen's response to this:

This game isn't interesting enough to compete with team mafia.

^^ Nuwen: you should be well aware you were lurking in this game BEFORE the team Mafia games started. TM began on May 7th. Your firts post on the Louvre game was on April 14th, THREE WEEKS BEFORE. In 33 days, you have produced 36 posts, which roughly counts for about 1 post a day. Basically, you have indeed lurked like a boss all through the game. Hiraki has 1 post less than you and you've been here since the beginning of the game.

*From what I'm told, SHOULD be the one doing the vote count analysis (

especially given all those threats about tearing up the people off the UberNinja wagon

), not you

What threats?

CONCLUSION: Yeah, Nuwen is probably scum.

UNVOTE
VOTE: NUWEN

Will do Furcolow tomorrow.

[Zar]

@Mod please prod Katsuki & charter

[Zar]

Not a fan of this Nuwen wagon. Nuwen is defending Hiraki for reasons that seem entierly logical, are pretty strong, and are probably right. So, because she's defending someone who's probably town from getting lynched...that makes her scum?

Yosarian, what are your tiers? Who do you suspect and why?

unvote;
vote: Zar

let's do me vs. you today, bub

No. 1 vs. 1 are: pointless, distracting, and self-serving.

[Zar]

Furcolow

Spoiler: D1 Votes

#20 Vi
#43 shos
#114 UN
#197 shos
#312 quilford
#594 Nuwen
#615 vi
#696 katsuki
#712 elmo
#713 Zar
#769 Vi
#911 Yos
#1016 Zar
#1107 UN

After going through his ISO, I've actually changed my mind about Furcolow.

My problem with Furcolow is mostly based on playstyle discrepancies. As in, a lot of his posts are nitpicking one liners and seem restrained, or don't really go in depth to lay out where his town reads or scum reads come from. But trying to analyze this without confirmation bias I can see how he's been putting pressure through the means of voting, and going through his ISO it's now evident how he's been interacting with almost every player here, or has said something even if briefly about his stance on most players.

QUESTIONS:

Furcolow, could you please explain where does your Hiraki-town read come from?

What are your current reads on Parama and Charter?


RESPONSES TO VI:

Furcolow:
*Has not put out a lot of posts or done much Furcraging in this game, which does count against him, but

Not really going to go down the META lane here. I doubt anyone that's been around long enough may not be able to mimmic their town play.

*

has bothered to put his vote on people who have no votes a LOT in this game

, which doesn't make a lot of sense for scum to do as often as he has.

Emphasis struck me as a hyperbole, so I went over the thread votes to verify this.

Spoiler: Votes the Wagon

#20 First vote on Vi

#43 Third vote on shos
#114 Third vote on UberNinja
#197 Third vote on shos
#312 Fourth vote on quilford
#594 Second vote on Nuwen

#615 First vote on Vi

#696 First vote on Katsuki

#713 First vote on Zar

#769 First vote on Vi

#911 Third vote on Yosarian2
#1016 Second Vote on Zar
#1107 Sixth Vote on UberNinja

Questions to Vi: I mean, considering that part of what scum has to do is to pretend to have town intentions: why wouldn't it make sense for scum to vote often for people who have no votes? How would that be detrimental for their faction?

CONCLUSION: Moving Furcolow down to my Tier III group.

[Zar]

In efforts of avoiding a hammer I am going to

UNVOTE: NUWEN

.

Still plenty of time to talk.

re-reading Hiraki and Charter next.

[Zar]

Current Tiers:

Tier 1: Nuwen, Hiraki, charter
Tier 2: Katsuki, Parama, Vi,
Tier 3: shos, Furcolow, kanye, Yosarian2.

[Zar]

??

clearly im wating.

kanyes first.

[Zar]

working on the local elections today. Will be back tomorrow.

[Zar]

Done with Elections. But, still need to go over Hiraki and Charter >.< I'll read them over and come with comments in a bit.

[Zar]

Hey charter: going over your ISO, I noticed you had been finding Kanye's behavior scummy for quite a long while. Why did you never vote him?

[Zar]

Charter:

Spoiler: Votes:

#5 Kanye
#27 Quilford
#52 Vi
#336 Chiaro
#593 Nuwen
#757 Pirate
#763 Yosarian
#965 Hiraki
#1122 Hiraki

Spoiler: Read

So Charter:

Here are some things that strike me as suspicious from re-reading him.

#381-#389: Asks Yosarian about his Kanye-town read, calls it stretching. Establishes that the push on quilford looks insincere and illogical. Claims that all Kanye has done is call quilford scum. Why didn't Charter vote Kanye if he suspected him this much?
#593: placeholder on Kanye/Yosarian.
#770: dismissing Furcolow's Vi vote.
#864: Keeps declaring suspicion on Kanye, but never puts in a vote on him.

Another suspicious thing.

Before being replaced, Chiaro made a comment on my case on him, but did not comment anything in regards to the reasons charter was voting him, other than utter a "Not Sure" (in reference to his alignment). I think this would only matter in case Hiraki happened to flip guilty.

CONCLUSION: While he's been heavily pressing on the Chiaro slot + Nuwen, charter had been calling out Kanye as suspicious all day but never showed interest in pursuing this any further. Weak Scumread.

[Zar]

I saw an escargot walk past this game 10 times back and forth.

and go read the Hiraki-shos talk around that place; Hiraki made some 'mistakes' in addition there..

what are those mistakes?

[Zar]

CONCLUSION: While he's been heavily pressing on the Chiaro slot + Nuwen, charter had been calling out Kanye as suspicious all day but never showed interest in pursuing this any further. Weak Scumread.

does it make him more or less likely scum if i am town?

This is suspicious regardless of your alignment. It's typical scum behavior to leave a hanging suspect.

??

clearly im wating.

kanyes first.

let me get this straight zar i am one of your top two town reads (so much so you highlight my name in GREEN in vca) but you are unwilling to nameclaim before me?

games slow as heck but you dont got time to answer these q's???[/quote]

I'm considering you PI because of Elmo's death + Yosarian's vig claim. You aren't doing any active scum-hunting, though.

I'm The Broken Jug.

[Zar]

@shos I already claimed. in #1404.

"The Broken Jug"

[Zar]

So Parama's the guy mentioned in the opening scene?

[Zar]

So Parama's the guy mentioned in the opening scene?

wait really

oh neato

if parama is not lying, does that clear him?

This brings a chunk of MOD WIFOM into the name-claim speculation. I guess it's safe to assume through the Chekov gun entry that flavor may be deceiving. It's possible that scum has fakeclaims.

One thing though: why would Parama, as town, lie about his name claim? Do you have reason to believe this could be a lie?

[Zar]

ITT: Vi tells people what to do but doesn't contribute give reads other than Nuwen (and complains about lack of content).
Maybe when she comes back she can gives us some useful content, and stuff?

[Zar]

Nuwen, Kanye & Furc are the ones missing with the name claim?

[Zar]

ITT: Vi tells people what to do but doesn't contribute give reads other than Nuwen (and complains about lack of content).
Maybe when she comes back she can gives us some useful content, and stuff?

And what do you want to know? I think I've been fairly clear.

If you and I are to be married one day, we should have open communication.

What are is your read on Parama?

[Zar]

*EBWOP should read *"is your read"

[Zar]

prod-doging FTW.

Charter: what was that Kanye debacle you had about?

[Zar]

(8) OOOOOOOOOOH MY COMMANDING WIFE, SHE WANTS TO DESTROY MY LIFE (8)

Vi, shouldn't we want her nameclaim first?

[Zar]

Yosarian, besides Furcolow, can you please remind us who your suspects are?

[Zar]

VOTE: NUWEN

[Zar]

dafuq?

UNVOTE

VOTE HIRAKI

[Zar]

it's just some bullshit flavor french name does it really matter?
Zar will confirm me

Can you paraphrase what you received as a result?

[Zar]

You know, I'd really like to see what Furc has to say, about my question.

[Zar]

I wanted to know what his response was ._.

[Zar]

A better question, I guess: Zar, results clearing anyone please?

charter moved from the the 1st Fl. of Denon to the ground floor of the Sully portion. The wording of the result also indicates that I noticed there are windows there that open onto a courtyard.

According to the Louvre map in UberNinja's death scene, La Joconde is located in Denon.

Also, the wording of the newspaper image attached to the morning scene indicates the corpses where found in the sous-sol du musée, which translates as "in the basement of the museum".

I guess this means charter isn't responsible for either of these deaths.

[Zar]

eh, apparently someone is sending out visions or something is triggering them.

I'm paraphrasing everything, I've had to resort to synonyms.

The accompanying message says something along the lines of me wandering about while thinking about the weird stuff that has being going on. I end up getting into a place that resembles a study, and it looks like I like the room decoration.

I sit down at a desk and while I'm minding my own business playing with whatever is in the desk surface, I get three visions:

- some sort of powerfully energetic entity/creature that can meddle with fate.
- An ancient voice emerging from the origins, resonant/low pitched and taking its time, entering consciences.
- a bright light that can't be avoided, showing no sign of wickedness or righteousness.

And then it's all over and I'm wondering WTH was that about.

[Zar]

If the visions are about roles in the game, then the third one really sounds like a Third Party.

[Zar]

Does anybody know what language is the writing in the day scene?

[Zar]

I've been doing some research on the scripture in the day scene.

It looks like it's written in demotic, which ties to the Rosetta Stone and ties to Jean-François Champollion.

[Zar]

future wifey, why where you hatin' on my Furc cases on D1 + D2?

[Zar]

I've been doing some research on the scripture in the day scene.

It looks like it's written in demotic, which ties to the Rosetta Stone and ties to Jean-François Champollion.

How did you figure it out? what does it say? what is the Rosetta Stone and how does it link to JFC?

I haven't figured out what it says yet. The characters look like demotic, though.

The Rosetta stone is a famous object that was used to decipher the Egyptian hieroglyphs; Champollion was responsible for the deciphering.

Cue word here is "Egyptian".

Vi are you writing stuff in death scenes now?

[Zar]

Shos, I have a question about your role. When did you say you sent your message to Hiraki, again?

[Zar]

it has been delievered around May 05, in the afternoon.

so it's a day ability.

did you send out any other messages during d2?

[Zar]

also, yes, demotic is an ancient egyptian form of writing.

[Zar]

I'm claiming to having received a day message via the mod from somebody saying he was shos, asking me to breadcrumb whether Furcoscum was lying or not about my role.

[Zar]

So here's brand new spanking ViScum Theory.

In another game I played here (1308), The flavor text of the Morning Scene of D2 in evidentiated the SK/Vig/Mafia kills by referring to them as a "Deletion/Exploding/Devouring"

going by the Mod's Chekov gun in 1589,

That morning, the sun was brittle. It rose with difficulty behind the dark stormy clouds having carried from night. Even then, the grey, grainy light seemed too bright as it unveiled the cold bodies of Williard Winckelmann, and Polyphème Desroches.

Near the maimed remains of the later, writings hung on the wall.

It seems evident that Parama's death was done by somebody familiar with Egyptian writing.

Vi has claimed to be The Louvre's Mummy
The Death Scene has a message written in Demotic/Ancient Egyptian.
Vi was highly defensive of FurcoScum on D1,
Vi was fencesitting about killing FurcoScum until it was fairly late in the wagon.

I'm canceling our engagement.

VOTE: Vi

[Zar]

I think I finally found the alphabet

https://pantherfile.uwm.edu/prec/www/co ... 0/dis3.jpg

[Zar]

Magua, what is your interpretation of the 2 deaths of the morning scene?

[Zar]

The thing with the flavour in this game it that it apparently has clues thrown around. I would not rely solely on it, but it may add to your case.

Comments
Flavour in this game may help you, it may also trick you. You are encouraged to do your own research.

[Zar]

I have to go back and see who makes sense as a Furcolow partner.

[Zar]

Not too familiar with Mafiascum balancing.

9:3:1 with Odd/Even Vig + Mafia + SK seems too mafia empowering.

D1 9:3:1
D2 7:3:1
D3 5:2:1

[Zar]

No author? No civilization where it comes from?

Also, what the heck is Baal Peor?

[Zar]

I wouldn't take that for granted though, (Vig or SK, but not both)

I went out of my way Mod-WIFOMing 1308 and it ended up having a JOAT with a Vig-Shot, an Odd Day SK, and Mafia, all on an 11 player game. :shrugs:

[Zar]

I followed Furcolow in N1, but the result said my action failed.

I asked the mod what the result would be in case a player did not move during the night, she responded that in such case I would be told my target did not go anywhere.

[Zar]

Actually, I've been toying with the theory that Mafia shot the SK, who opted for a scummy kill to claim Vig. It would explain Furcolow's reaction to Yosarian's vig claim.

[Zar]

shos FTR: SK is scum, just 3rd party scum

#justsayin'.

[Zar]

Parama's reaction to the quick buildup of Hiraki's wagon gives me pause.

[Zar]

END OF D1 Votecount

Day 1 Final votecount

(7) UberNinja:

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2

,

Zar

, Hiraki,

Furcolow

,

Elmo teh AzN

,

(3) Hiraki :

Parama

, charter, Vi

(2) Zar:

UberNinja

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(0) Not voting :

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

END OF D2 Votecount.

Day 2 final votecount

(6)

Furcolow

:

Yosarian2

, Vi,

kanyeknowsbest

, Nuwen, shos, charter,

(2) Hiraki :

Katsuki,

Zar

,

(1) Yosarian2:

Furcolow

,

(2) Not voting :

Parama

, Hiraki,

With 11 players, 6 votes are required to lynch.

Hmm..

I think Hiraki-Scum would have enjoyed some well needed town-cred for hopping into the Furcowagon, especially since he's been a viable all through D1 + D2.

[Zar]

Hiraki, why did you unvote on D2?

I was able to relate with other ongoing games. Not going to say much more than that because that's just about as much as I can say.

<_<

But you said:

Wait a moment.

Detective, Tracker and Vig?

hold the fuck up

[Zar]

Hey, Charter BTW, what were you doing out of your room?

[Zar]

Some tasty VCA! PT.1

This focuses on the town wagons that popped around D1.

Spoiler: D1 VC2

Day 1 votecount 2

UberNinja (5)

:

Zar

, Chiarosicada,

Furcolow

, shos,

Yosarian2

,

Quilford (3)

: charter, Nuwen,

kanyeknowsbest

Parama(2)

: Vi,

shos (2)

: diddin,

Parama

,

charter (1)

:

Quilford

Yosarian2 (1)

:

UberNinja

,

Not voting (0):

<3

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

The top two wagons + Parama, all confirmed innocent wagons.

I wouldn't expect all of the scumteam to be in a single wagon with town voting all over the place.

So that makes a 3-man scumteam composed of Furcolow + Hiraki/Pirate/Chiaro + shos unlikely. In fact, given shos' interest in chopping Hiraki's head off all game, I'd be likely to believe Hiraki/shos is very unlikely.

Now, a 3-man team composed of Furcolow +1 of {shos/Hiraki} + 1 of {Charter/Vi/Nuwen} is far more probable. Especially since I doubt Nuwen/Charter team going out of their way consecutively voting to quickly build a wagon.

Let us continue:

Spoiler: D1 VC3

Day 1 votecount 3

shos (3):

diddin,

Parama

,

Furcolow

UberNinja

(3):

Zar

, Chiarosicada,

Yosarian2

,

Quilford (2):

Nuwen,

kanyeknowsbest

charter (1):

Quilford

diddin (1):

shos,

kanyeknowsbest (1):

UberNinja,

Parama (1):

Vi,

Vi (1)

: charter,

Not voting (0):

<3

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

I still have to go after Furcoscum's reasoning to vote shos in that wagon; assuming shos were scum, I'm skeptical of the chances of a 2/3 scumbuddies seeding a partners wagon so early in game.

Although not impossible, the way I see it, shos/diddin are unlikely to be BOTH teamed with Furcolow; it's either Furcolow + Shos; OR Furcolow + diddin. I mean, the suspicion of shos had been carrying came from early game and I don't see anything in his play so condemning that would propel 2 scumbuddies to buss the hell out.

Charter is off the bandwagons by voting Vi. Not very informative of alignment.

Spoiler: D1 VC5

Day 1 votecount 5

Quilford

Elmo TeH AzN (4):

Nuwen,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Yosarian2

,

Furcolow

,

Parama (3):

Vi, Chiarosicada, shos,

shos (3):

diddin,

UberNinja, Parama,

Chiarosicada (2):

Zar

, charter,

Nuwen (1):

Elmo teh AzN

Not voting (0):

<3

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Elmo TeH AzN replaces Quilford.

Now, 349 is very interesting. CT Parama is the only wagon so far to be voted entirely by players whose alignment is dubious. The other top wagon? quilford/Elmo, another CT, live and kicking.

Nuwen and Furcolow are in this wagon together. Nothing rules them out as potential partners yet. Even if we go by disregarding his claim, looks unlikely to me that Yosarian is their partner. He could still be 3rd Party.

Charter is voting Hiraki. Not very informative of alignment.

[Zar]

Part 2.

Spoiler: D1 VC8

Day 1 votecount 8

Elmo TeH AzN (4):

Nuwen,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Yosarian2

,

Furcolow

,

kanyeknowsbest (3)

:

Elmo teh AzN

, Vi,

UberNinja

,

Pirate Chemist (3):

Zar

, charter,

Parama

,

Parama (1):

Pirate Chemist ,

shos (1):

Katsuki,

UberNinja (1):

shos,

Not voting (0):

<3

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.[/color]

3 competing wagons, 2 innocent and 1 of them of unconfirmed alignment.

- Again, Nuwen & Furcolow voting on the same wagon, If they're partners, I'd expect their buddy to be among the other votes....

- Oh Look! Vi's voting kanye *tsk tsk tsk*...
HOWEVER, Vi + Nuwen + Furcolow is a stretch (I'll give you that).

- We have the Hiraki slot voting Parama, a slot Nuwen has vehemently been defending, and Vi's been fencesitting about. Could be teams with either.

- There's shos voting UberNinja, but really, who's to blame for voting such a scummy looking slot? I wouldn't take that single vote as damning evidence. Still, could be teams with Nuwen or Vi for the moment.

- Obtuse Katsuki is voting shos. Now, the shos slot still doesn't tell us much since we don't know its alignment. I continue to believe these two are unlikely partners, especially since shos kept calling out for diddin for doing nothing.

- Charter is still voting unconfirmed Pirate Chemist/Hiraki.

Furcolow + {Nuwen/Vi/Charter} + {shos/diddin/hiraki}, incidentally, I've seen nothing to rule out Vi/Charter.

Spoiler: D1 VC17

Day 1 votecount 17

(4) UberNinja :

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2

,

Zar

,

(4)

Zar:

UberNinja

,

Furcolow

,

kanyeknowsbest, Elmo teh AzN,

(2) Hiraki :

Parama

, charter,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(1) Yosarian2:

Vi,

(1) Not voting :

Hiraki

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

So the Zar wagon at this point was composed of all town minus Furcolow, which definitely means that Furc's buddies were seeding the counter-option, in this case, UberNinja.

This points to at least one of shos/Nuwen could be mafia with Furcolow if we go by the assumption that the scum had managed to dominate the wagons of D1.

We have Vi parked on Yosarian, with a vote that isn't doing much at this point. We have Hiraki with no vote, and charter parked in Hiraki.

And then comes

Spoiler: D1 VC18

Day 1 votecount 18

(5) Zar:

UberNinja,

Furcolow

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

Elmo teh AzN

, Vi,

(4) UberNinja :

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2,

Zar

,

(2) Hiraki :

Parama

, charter,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(1) Not voting :

Hiraki
With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Vi puts her vote on me, raising my wagon 1 vote over UberNinja.

Here's how this makes sense from a Furcoscum buddies perspective:
- Vi had been very vocal about "OMG Ninja is so town" along D1. It wouldn't have made sense for her to go against the flow and throw a Ninja vote to raise his wagon over mine, especially since she had been dismembering my Furcolow suspicions through the day.

Here is how Nuwen's stance also could make sense from a Furcoscum buddies perspective:
- Re-enactment: "DUH! Two town counterwagons! Perfect! I vote one and you vote the other... then we switch and it's a done deal BWAHAHAHA"

Here's what is giving me some pause about Vi:
- Incidentally, the most vocal about the Ninja Wagon were shos and myself. Scum Vi could have her pick on each of us rather than focus on Nuwen. UNLESS Vi is shos buddy.


Anyway, then, we have the final D1 vote count:

Spoiler: D1 Final VC

Day 1 Final votecount

(7) UberNinja:

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2

,

Zar

, Hiraki,

Furcolow

,

Elmo teh AzN

,

(2) Hiraki :

Parama

, charter, Vi,

(2) Zar:

UberNinja, kanyeknowsbest,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(0) Not voting :

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.[/float][/color]

Uberninja has been lynched.

At this point, the wagon is definite.
- Vi has moved out of Zar into Hiraki, yet does nothing to stop the "OMG Ninja's so town" wagon she was vocal about.
- Charter avoids the whole conversation.
- Nuwen and shos have been parked on the wagon the longest.
- Hiraki ascertains the wagon by putting the fifth vote in.
- Confirmed scum Furcolow switches from one town wagon to the other, thus avoiding making obvious if he has joined any of his scumbuddies in the wagon.
- Katsuki stays out of the wagons by keeping his vote on Vi.


Still pending to work on D2.

[Zar]

UNVOTE: Vi

while I figure out D2.

Here's a video of what she looks like.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vmd-DA18n7s

[Zar]

No, I'm trying to make sense of this game.

There are some things on your favor (at least from my perspective) over Nuwen, including your high activity + the way you came along your suspicions of D2.

While it pisses me off how you insist on trashing my contributions, I'm not about to go over to the land of confirmation bias when we still don't know the reasons to the two deaths last night.

[Zar]

What makes you think a Nuwen wagon won't start?

[Zar]

Let's rephrase it:

shos: why is Nuwen not a better lynch than Hiraki?

[Zar]

Magua and Charter: why don't both of you start giving us some thoughts?

[Zar]

I still don't like that there's been a major silence on the player that sent me a message, and also charter's roamabouts.

[Zar]

Spoiler: D2 final wagons

Day 2 votecount 10

(4) Nuwen :

Vi, charter,

Zar

, shos,

(2) Hiraki :

Parama

, Katsuki,

(2) Parama :

Yosarian2

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

(1) shos:

Furcolow

,

(1) charter:

Hiraki,

(1) Not voting :

Nuwen

With 11 players, 6 votes are required to lynch.

Day 2 votecount 11

(5) Furcolow:

Yosarian2

, Vi,

kanyeknowsbest

, Hiraki, Nuwen

(3) Hiraki :

Katsuki,

Zar

, shos,

(1) Nuwen :

charter,

(1) Yosarian2:

Furcolow

,

(1) Not voting :

Parama,

With 11 players, 6 votes are required to lynch.

Day 2 votecount 12

(5)

Furcolow

:

Yosarian2

, Vi,

kanyeknowsbest

, Nuwen, shos,

(3) Hiraki :

Katsuki,

Zar

,

(1) Nuwen :

charter,

(1) Yosarian2:

Furcolow

,

(1) Not voting :

Parama, Hiraki,

With 11 players, 6 votes are required to lynch.

Day 2 final votecount

(6)

Furcolow

:

Yosarian2

, Vi,

kanyeknowsbest

, Nuwen, shos, charter,

(3) Hiraki :

Katsuki,

Zar

,

(1) Yosarian2:

Furcolow

,

(2) Not voting :

Parama, Hiraki,

With 11 players, 6 votes are required to lynch.

By the way the Furcowagon grew, I'm led to believe there's at least 1 scum in Furcolow's wagon; if my gut is right, it's one of shos or Nuwen, but not both.

In fact, when compared to the End-of-Day 1 Flip:

Day 1 Final votecount

(7) UberNinja:

shos, Nuwen,

Yosarian2

,

Zar

, Hiraki,

Furcolow

,

Elmo teh AzN

,

(2) Hiraki :

Parama

, charter, Vi

(2)

Zar

:

UberNinja

,

kanyeknowsbest

,

(1) Vi:

Katsuki,

(0) Not voting :

With 13 players, 7 votes are required to lynch.

Uberninja has been lynched.

It all points to out to indicating that the scum cashed on letting the town rip each others throats.

[Zar]

Doubt Charter is lying about his claim since the Mummy is located in the Sully Ground Floor.

[Zar]

That has me wondering: what would a school-girl in a field-trip be doing in the museum at night, though?

I mean, so far the claims have been:

- people working in the Museum,
- stuff within the museum...
- and a school girl on a field trip.

[Zar]

@Mod please prod Hiraki

[Zar]

Intention to hammer requested.

[Zar]

Just searched him and noticed Hiraki was enjoying himself in GD this morning, twelve hours ago, and yet he can't come show his face in thread. Nice.

[Zar]

If he doesn't show his face by tomorrow morning I'll hammer around 9-ish.

Off to bed for now.

[Zar]

yeah, so definitely not coming around.

Vote: Hiraki

[Zar]

who did you heal on D1.
This is the moment we have

[Zar]

Quick fly by, posting from my phone from the middle of nowhere.

Could there be a governor making Hiraki unlynchable? I highly doubt springlullaby would have left this game unlocked for two days.

EX-FIANCEE, what do you think?

[Zar]

Actually, Let's see...

UNVOTE: Hiraki

[Nope, doesn't count ] - spring

[Zar]

I attempted to follow shos last night, but as I tried to find him a shining light K.O'd me for the rest of the evening.

[Zar]

I receieved yet another vision. This time, a repeat of yesterday's message.

I go into the same room I went yesterday and I like the ambience, but there seems to be a fine layer of dust covering the furniture. My thoughts wantder as I sit in the chair next to the big desk and the same three visions arise.

A blinding light that can't be stopped changing fate.
An ancient voice lacking vice or virtue
An entity with unquantifiable energy, deep and slow that can enter minds

And the visions end suddenly.

[Zar]

I'd be fine with either of them claiming ahead, both of them have been laying pretty low, Magua even more than Nuwen.

But let's try it Vi's way, for our old times' sake.

[Zar]

Intriguing. I still don't see how these claims fit into the visions.

[Zar]

FUCK ALL OF YOU.

I got a vision. Three visions.

Apparently one of the scum's flavor name, so I can deduce this vision, is named Martin.

I'll paraphrase the entire PM for investigation though, for later days.

So, I decided to go check out Elmo's crimescene some more.

I inspect the glass and find a medallion. Suddenly, because I picked up the medallion, I receive three visions.

The murderer had this medallion before, as he dropped it after he committed the murder. A vision of a tricolor flag(white isn't a color bitches) And finally, a man cutting his cape and muttering the word Martin.

These visions then end, oddly. I am left to ponder on them.

I'm going insane here. This implies only one person targeted Elmo?

eh, apparently someone is sending out visions or something is triggering them.

I'm paraphrasing everything, I've had to resort to synonyms.

The accompanying message says something along the lines of me wandering about while thinking about the weird stuff that has being going on. I end up getting into a place that resembles a study, and it looks like I like the room decoration.

I sit down at a desk and while I'm minding my own business playing with whatever is in the desk surface, I get three visions:

- some sort of powerfully energetic entity/creature that can meddle with fate.
- An ancient voice emerging from the origins, resonant/low pitched and taking its time, entering consciences.
- a bright light that can't be avoided, showing no sign of wickedness or righteousness.

And then it's all over and I'm wondering WTH was that about.

I receieved yet another vision. This time, a repeat of yesterday's message.

I go into the same room I went yesterday and I like the ambience, but there seems to be a fine layer of dust covering the furniture. My thoughts wantder as I sit in the chair next to the big desk and the same three visions arise.

A blinding light that can't be stopped changing fate.
An ancient voice lacking vice or virtue
An entity with unquantifiable energy, deep and slow that can enter minds

And the visions end suddenly.

My vision seems to match shos' role in 1 and 3. I don't understand the second part at all.

[Zar]

"no vice or virtue" however sounds less like a SK and more like a Survivor kind of role. After all, Survivor just needs to survive.

[Zar]

Is BP Survivor a common thing around here?

[Zar]

meh. 3:29 am. I can't believe I'm here. gotta wake up in 2 hours :\

guh, I don't think it's possible that town is so overpowered:
a BP,
a forensic investigator,
a town guard,
a detective,
a scientific expert, whatever that means,
a doc.

come on, there can't POSSIBLY be another protective role. this lacks too much.

Vote: Magua

lol, ninja'd by three posts.
charter, that does not mean that I'm an SK. also, I'd find it quite wierd if there was an SK who could kill and not be killed OR tracked.

what I want you to claim is just like we all did - a picture, with the addition of the related flavor. so far your role has been just 'confirming' stuff. nothing you couldn't invent.

Aren't you the BP? You're including yourself among the town? You just claimed 3rd Party?

*head splits*

[Zar]

I find interesting that no one has claimed to be responsible of sending visions to other players.

[Zar]

I looked for Elmo's role online, and I found this:

http://wiki.epicmafia.com/index.php?title=Dreamer

It's not a Mafiascum link, so I don't know if spring borrowed this role from some other place.

[Zar]

So apparently the Dreamer gets messages in which things are revealed to him. These dreams allow the player to narrow the suspect pool if successful.

Is there a possibility that somebody could have targeted Elmo's ability to dream and stolen/absorbed it from him?

[Zar]

What if this person is able to project these dreams to other players? And these visions are about three different roles rather than one?

[Zar]

I'll be back

[Zar]

Charter's Claim first:

I'm La Joconde, aka the mona lisa.

Vi's claim follows:

Also, I'm the Louvre's mummy.

The problem with Charter's flavorcop role is that he's working with information readily available.

Those that haven't nameclaimed should nameclaim.

What did furc claim?

You got any nameclaim to go with that furc?

Now he's claimed a result. But his claim comes after Vi has given out her flavor name.

I'm a flavorcop. I get some cryptic clues about someone's name flavor. It's why I was in favor of the massnameclaim yesterday, so I would have everyone's name to verify against. Night one I investigated Furc, last night I investigated Vi. Vi is a mummy like she claimed. As far as I can tell, my role is totally useless.

Note that there is no additional information here accompanying Charter's result. Vi full-claims:

Yos, what was your claim again? I forget what it was.

4) Here's my claim.

As the mummy I wander the halls at Night, practicing my moonwalk for the big surprise Thriller party on Thursday. I can choose a floor and I might find something of use, but I'm told that which floor I choose may have farther-reaching implications. I chose Second Floor Night 1 basically at random and got a scenic tour but that's about it. I tried First Floor Night 2 but got little more than attacked and sent back to my sarcophagus with a bit of a rough attitude. I tried Ground Floor last Night and got a visitor I was able to chase away before they broke all of my canopic jars. That's why I believe I was the target of a kill. With that said, being without most of my internal organs leaves me with a silly post restriction as a memento of the affair. But post restrictions are fun; I can make bird humor as we lynch the fowl villain I've been trying to get DEAD for

three and a half Days now

.

Oh, before I forget, I was raised up by a mysterious power of some kind. Which sounds like what shos claimed, hence that one line of questioning D3.

Any questions?

Charter adds to his Vi claim after vi has given flavor detail to her role. claims to have flavor results on Furcolow, flipped scum. If Nuwen is right and Furcolow's role made him an ascetic, then Charter's claim result is questionable. His Yosarian claim confirmation is also shaky, as all the information had also been public before the claim.

Unvote

because I have no clue what is going on in this game and I'm not going to be the one to blow it.

Night one I targeted Furc because I thought his vote was suspect. I was told he was a young woman with brown curls. She was reclining and wearing some sort of dress of which I need to google later.
Night two I targeted Vi, I don't remember why. It was just a description of a mummy, it game me his height and is laying down wearing linen. Four vases are next to him.
Night three I targeted Yos, because he wanted me to verify his claim. He's a young woman with short hair. She is in bed, and has a gun by her side.

This supports his claim. I think his pic is of a woman.

[Zar]

So, there are two things about this Viscum theory that don't work.

(1) My Night action was actually circumvented last Night. Not that you'd know that, but it means I wouldn't be writing anything on the walls - as I said earlier.

Also,
(2) Supposing for a moment that I were scum in a game where it's very obvious that flavor means a lot (remember the claims came on Day

Two

), don't you think that I would claim just about anything except what all the clues point to? Something innocuous, like a schoolgirl on a field trip.

Call it WIFOM if you like; I'd like to refer to my previous statement about me not being a total retard. And in case it's not obvious, I'm quite positive that this is a setup.

The only person who has claimed to have targeted Vi is Charter.

[Zar]

So we're confronted with two possibilities:

1) Charter is lying about his role.
2) Vi is lying about her ability getting circumvented.

[Zar]

Wait. you think we have Multiscum in this game?

[Zar]

2 Scumteams + Neutral Party + Town seems way too many teams for a 13 player game, IMO.

[Zar]

@Magua:

I received a message from the spring on Jun the 10th around 7:00 am according to the timestamp. For those with different timezones to mine, it's about 4 hours from this post, which is when I was able to check while V/LA.

Quick fly by, posting from my phone from the middle of nowhere.

[Zar]

As you can see whenever we started talking about pictures, I said that there was no rule forbidding it, and later mod confirmed. The mod, at start game, noticed that he indeed did not enforce a rule about the pictures, so she messaged me a few pictures of the kind,

if I should want to fakeclaim a human

. she also noted that I should upload it to the site just like she does to all the pictures. she just said that she does that because she likes to fuck with people who want to break setups or something; that is from memory, I'm not quoting the mod.

VOTE: Charter

Why would you want to fake-claim human?

[Zar]

@Magua: I asked spring about the flip but the answer was evasive.

[Zar]

Just in case, I'm glad our engagement got broken off.

</3 you were too old for me, that's why our engagement broke up D=.

However, I too have been expecting my death for the past few days. The only logical thing that came to my mind about D2 is that the scum feared a potential doc threat. As for N3, idk, maybe shos' blast knocking me unconscious works as a reflexive protection? Or my suspicions on D3 were plain awful?

I do believe that "rock with mystic powers" is his role at least, just based on my Mumminess waking up due to some known power. I'm actually curious if the other artifacts have this same clause in their Role PM?

Nothing in my role pm talks about this.

With that said... balance-wise, you're right, it doesn't make sense. Yet I fully believe that he's led us to charter-scum.

I'm high on air conditioning right now and this sounds retarded even as I type it but if we're lynching scum anyway, letting shos live may be the better move for Today.

Do you not find the part about him being given fakeclaims suspicious?

[Zar]

shos, why do you think Magua is town?

[Zar]

I totally forgot you were an artifact until you said something. Humor me, but how does your role work flavor-wise?

Are you flavor fishing for your buddy charter?

[Zar]

Ah I missed some parts:

1) What does it mean to be Roleblocked? Zar just said that his action failed. Was that it?

idk. My action failed on N1 and I was knocked unconscious until the end of N3 after attempting to follow shos. IDK if my action failing was a direcr result of Furcolow's + shos role. The mafia charmer I read about gets to learn everything about his target (not on mafiascum though), but nothing mentions about roleblocking.

And,
2) Why is it that Zar has claimed to have actioned on people who will probably both turn out to be scum on Nights 1 and 2? with one No Result and one benign result that's swinging very much in a probscum's favor?

Eh. All I can do with my role is try to find out where people go. I don't see how my result clears Charter entirely nor why people are so adamant about 3 Scum Team + 3rd Party. Sounds more balanced to me than 2 - 2 - 1 - 8.

And,
3) Why is Zar, if so obvTown, so little a factor in the discussion right now? Even the claimed Survivor is posting moar and better.

mandatory overtime at work.

4) Why is Zar, claimed power role swimming in an ocean of Town cred, still alive right now?

I already answered this.

[Zar]

Zar 1997 - That's quite the disingenuous accusation there. Flavor is flavor. The presence of it says nothing; the absence of it speaks volumes. Answer the question.

Despite idiotic opinions to the contrary I don't fish for role details unless I'm going somewhere with it.

Meh, thinking about it I don't see the harm to it anyway.

I travel restlessly along the hallways of the museum in the hopes of finding something to distract me from my lethargy. Not particularly interested by the human world, but the murder in the museum has piqued my attention into providing any aid possible I can to solve the mystery.

The mafia charmer I read about gets to learn everything about his target (not on mafiascum though),
Documentation nao please and thank you.

http://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewto ... 0&t=133592

First post has all role PMs of that game.

[Zar]

I'm shifting back to my Vi is the scum D3 mode.

The way I see it, nobody in this game makes more sense as a partner to Furcolow than Vi.

Vote Vi

Will be back with more about this.

[Zar]

Wall of interactions between Furcolow and Vi:

Spoiler: Lots of quotes

Remark about Parama's "scum claim"

What exactly is he case on Parama, again?

He made posts that sounded opportunistic when shos was being wagoned.

Don't forget the claiming scum part.

that was obviously a joke

Claiming to not want to vote Vi for meta reasons:

Vi, why did you wait until 52 to vote shos? Why not vote in 48?

I think Vi is scum. She has done nothing but push easy lynches on Shos and Parama, who, despite her claims, is not obvscum.

Unvote, Vote Vi

Yos and Nuwen, what is your read on Vi?

unvote on this for meta reasons

Speculative alignment based on hypo-town shos flip:

im fine with quilford
his spazzing and flailing is near shos level
i support either of the two wagons
Vi pushing against shos has me thinking he might be town if she is mafia

Fencesitting on vi Vote:

shos has been way more active and can be held accountable
i'll give Vi the benefit of the doubt

Slowly going off the fence:

Vi's looking scummier
UN is now my strongest town read

Discrepancy on the read + Vote

So you think Vi is scum? I had a townread on her, but I'm feeling like some pressure there would be nice. I'm tired of her defenses, honestly, and am wondering if she's just trying to buy town cred

unvote;
vote: vi

I isod Nuwen, and I'm just now seeing it. There are much better candidates.

The only time Vi addresses Furcolow on D1 is this one:

I'm tired of

[Vi's]

defenses, honestly,

...I've defended myself? I know I don't remember anything for longer than 24 hours but I'm pretty sure I haven't done much of that.

Third vote on Vi, cuses no reaction from her.

unvote;
vote: Vi

third time's a charm

Vi disses my Furcolow vote on D1.

I am remarkably out of "u suk" pictures already. My years on the Internet have been wasted.

Strike two anyway.

We better try to agree on the lynch, we can't still be on the Rainbow Voting here.

Tier 1:
Would Gladly Lynch:
Uberninja, Pirate, Furcolow

(4) UberNinja : shos, Nuwen, Yosarian2, Katsuki,
(...)
(1) Furcolow: Zar,

Reverses my question.

@Zar 996: I don't really see any reason to believe Furcolow is scum atm. But that's not as important as the fact that you claim to think otherwise.

Vague response to question about Furcolow.

Do you think

[Furcolow's]

behavior is pro-town?

I don't see why not.

No more comments about either on this day.

[Zar]

@Mod add the missing [/spoiler] tag at the end of that post please.

[Zar]

I'm starting to think you're all scum and screwing with my mind >.<

[Zar]

Some summary brainstorming:

Vig, Mafia, SK

N1 - One Kill (Supposedly Vig)
N2 - Two Kills (Allegedly Mafia and another Kill, Vig claims to have no more shots)
N3 - No Kill.


Possibilities:

N1
1. Yos was really Vig & Vi Mafia shot a BP/SK Nuwen and have wanted him/her dead since.

Would explain Vi's tunneling on Nuwen if Vi's Mafia & Nuwen were the SK

. <- That possibility seems out of the question since shos has claimed third party. Possibility of two BPs? Hardly logical, IMO.
2. Mafia shot shos -> If Mafia had done this and had a hunch of shos being SK I think they would have figured a way to hunt his head.
3. Yos is really Mafia killing town Elmo <- seems a sub-par Mafia kill. Elmo was a big suspect of the crowd and a great candidate for a mislynch.
4. Mafia withheld on N1 <- this looks retarded.
5. Mafia shot Vi, who was protected by Hiraki.
6. Anybody but shos (Vi/Yos, et al) is SK <- would make this game at least a FOUR faction game. Seems too overpowering for the scum and two third party team setup with 13 players just seems ridiculous. After all, we are dealing with uniformed majority with apparently weakish powers.

I can't see Yos being scum in these scenarios unless it's Option #3. The problem is with all this flavor and speculations it's impossible to organize ideas properly.

N2 - 2 Kills:
- Mafia + SK
- Mafia + Extra Mafia Kill? <- Really? Sounds really off-balance.
- Mafia Kill + Somebody along the crowd is really a poisoner and the action was performed on N1? Something prevents the SK from using his kill on certain nights? SK has a limited number of kills? That would explain:

N3 - No Kills. Mafia kill was prevented? / The SK can't kill on consecutive nights? Plausible.

GAH!

[Zar]

It wasn't Yosarian.

Yosarian stayed on the utilitarian room at the lower ground floor all night.

[Zar]

Zar, Shos, Yosarian, Charter, Vi....

Did you seriously just hammer shos, Vi?

[Zar]

ITT we discover Vi can't count.

[Zar]

This hammer, BTW in my eyes makes Vi non-mafia.

If there were 3 Mafia and Vi was the last member, being the cause of such a short anti-town day would be batshit insane?

If shos is not a SK, and the Mafia Team was composed of 3 people then the last Mafia is probably charter.

[Zar]

Vi.

it's 5 people alive

3 of you voted shos.

he's dead.

[Zar]

Um, Zar, you might be a little high on the rich odor of Lebanese cedar and a little bit woozy from all that duck cooked in honey and garlic. Let me know what it's like.

I found this picture of Vi during a recent math test:

Spoiler: 1+1+1=2

[Zar]

Last night I decided to follow Vi, and I located her at the ground floor, Sully. She never left her display, which confirms #1) that she's part of the Louvre collection shown in Sully Ground (which means she's indeed the Mummy, most likely) and #2) That unless she has hologram/transfiguring abilities, she didn't move last night.

[Zar]

Charter: claim your result.

[Zar]

I can confirm Charter's result is correct. My flavor is a Painting by Jean-Baptiste Greuze depicting a girl in front of a fountain. "The Broken Jug" is its name.

[Zar]

Vi why does your PR keep growing? Has the nod given you a reason?

[Zar]

EBWOP should read "Mod". Posting from a phone sucks.

[Zar]

Vi I didn't correct you because I wanted to see if Charter was really a flavorcop.

[Zar]

You claimed your action was circumvented the day Charter targeted you.

All of the role confirmations he had provided were from players whose flavors had been offered in thread.

So I was tryibg to find out if he was lying about his role.

[Zar]

Unless the mod is trolling me, If Vi were untraceable, my action would have failed. If my action had failed I would have been told it had failed, just like when I tried following Furcolow or shos.

Charter, what are your thoughts about the night where there were two deaths?

[Zar]

Vi so wait. What happens if you miss your PR?