Mini 1431: The Tenements (Game Over)

[The Rufflig]

Good morning. I hope all of you are enjoying this fine Sunday.

VOTE: JacobSavage

Let's keep things rolling with a little rock and The Spirit of Radio.

[The Rufflig]

That was a great number. Just the thing to get your blood pumping and put a spring in your step for the rest of the day. Unfortunately, it looks like we've got some people who hit the snooze alarm this morning. Hey, get up, already. The day has started.

Oh hey! We've got out first dedication of the day. This one goes out to ArcAngel9. How do you spell Gadhafi?

[The Rufflig]

Welcome back. Once again, I am the man who arranges the blocks (aka theme from Tetris with lyrics). Just kidding, I'm just your friendly local dj here.

JacobSavage called in just a bit ago. Apparently, he is still having trouble spelling Gadhafi. Hey, I'm pleased to help. It's spelled R U F F L I G. There is no N in Gadhafi. If you guys have any other questions, feel free to phone them in. Now back to the music.

[The Rufflig]

Now for the traffic report. Everything's moving well -- holy smokes! Look at that! Mercy, mercy me. We've got ourselves a convoy!

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CoolDog

No, I don't have a PR. I'm just having a little fun. Would you like me to respond in character? I've got a link to Freewill all set.

[The Rufflig]

Re: Uberninja: Party Pooper (No link provided )

Re: CoolDog:
1) It isn't incomprehensible
2) Nor is it irrelevant. It was merely a tool to help get us past RVS.

[The Rufflig]

so you post garbage to get out of rvs. At which point did this sound like a good idea and beneficial to the town?

No garbage has been posted -- at least not by me. However, to answer your question, since pre-game. And if you haven't noticed (and it looks like a few of you haven't), it's working. Activity has increased. What part of getting us out of the rvs as quickly as possible sounds scummy to you? Or did you just want us to lay around waiting for each other to post something (which is what was actually happening)? I had a reason for what I was doing. You, however, still do not have a reason for your vote. Don't worry, we'll get to your scum buddies who hopped on my wagon soon enough.

Which brings us to this:

Lol how does posting random shit help us get past the random vote stage? This is bullshit scum filler posting. UNVOTE: VOTE: The Rufflig

Are you planning on paying attention to the game at any point? That question was already answered before you asked it.

FOS: WT Snacks

. At least try to keep up and make a point and not just random fluff to try and justify your vote.

And of course this:

Like CoolDog's point against Ruffig.

VOTE: Ruffig

Cool Dog has yet to make a point. Which means you have no point to your vote either -- at least none that you have stated. Your vote does not match what you are saying.

FOS: SoraAdvent

Three scummy looking players already - it can't be that easy, can it?

[The Rufflig]

Anywho, townie points to Slandaar for #59.

[The Rufflig]

Because he is thinking about such things as motivation.

[The Rufflig]

Geeze, Cooldog, you don't need such a big wall to make your points.

Let's get down to brass tacks. You think my prior posts had no value. That is what that big wall says, right? Would you care to point out your own content filled posts prior to your vote on me? What? You have none. Ok. How about pointing out all the rich content filled posts everyone else had? Huh? There aren't any. So my motive of posting garbage applied to everyone in the town including yourself? Indeed. I was avoiding talking about what important topics in the thread? I was distracting the town from what important topics in the thread? None and none, you say? So exactly what have I done that is scummy? Nothing, right.

Your vote on me, much like Sora's and WT's, was opportunistic in the scummiest way. You made a vote on what you perceived was a weak player because you thought it would make you look like you were actively scum hunting and participating in the game without getting called on it. You've been called.

[The Rufflig]

am I the only one who understands the mechanics here?

I understand the mechanic. I also understand that there is no need to post your choice in thread. Even if you do post your choice in thread, nothing keeps you from pming a different choice to the mod. I do not expect the mod to publicly respond to your 'choice'.

[The Rufflig]

@JacobSavage: May I take your continued vote on me as tacit approval of my wagon?

[The Rufflig]

a) k
b) k
c) no shit, sherlock
d) we'll take whatever we can get. you think we should all just go "oh lol it's early game, no scumhunting to be done here"?
e) huehuehuehue

Lol how does posting

random

shit help us get past the

random

vote stage? This is bullshit scum filler posting. UNVOTE: VOTE: The Rufflig

[The Rufflig]

Yeah. You know what? I find that I'm really not that interested in defending my early posts against the charge of them being garbage or filler as there was nothing going on at the time. However, there are relevant topics available for WT to discuss and he's actively avoiding them in favor of posting garbage.

[The Rufflig]

@Ruff: Is this not a point?

I am of the opinion that just simply explaining your actions with "oh it helps to get out of RVS/it's RVS" is simply scum with a convenient excuse. I can be convinced otherwise though.

You think I'm making an excuse then. Ok. From a scum PoV, what was my aim in adopting a fake PR and admitting it was fake when asked? Second, have you ever been in a game or seen a game where someone does something like this:

DayKill: SoraAdvent

out of the blue? Frequently, it turned out to be a fake daykill. At one point, it happened so commonly in games that it lost it's value. However, the point was to gather a reaction from a player. The fake PR bit was merely my spin on this old tactic.

[The Rufflig]

why do i have over 3 times the posts of the next most active player?

It's a lot easier to make posts with no content in them than to do some analyzing. Your content to noise ratio is very close to 0 which makes it slightly better than JacobSavage's ratio which is 0. Your current town to scum list does not match up with what little content you've been providing in thread which makes me doubt the sincerity and value of any of your posts.

[The Rufflig]

No. The only players I would be willing to sheep right now are Slandaar and gorckat. Those aren't strong town reads, but they appear to be the only other players in the game making any sort of effort.

[The Rufflig]

I think there is a good chance that CoolDog is scum. He has shown himself unable or unwilling to explain his thoughts even when pressed. Nevertheless, he clings to those unsupported thoughts as if they were incontestable truths even in the face of other arguments which he dismisses out of hand without any reasons. I'm unsure if CoolDog's switch in focus towards you is merely an effort to get out of the focus himself for awhile. Time will tell.

Given the randomness of UberNinja's postings, I'm unwilling to try and link her to anyone at this time.

Since someone is likely to call me on my analysis of UberNinja's posting being random and insincere, I'll give an example.

gorckat, u scum bro?

gorckat explain your vote on snacks to the class please

as in "rings more hollow" doesn't sound like something a townie would say

and i'm hoping to hear your justification for using it

Great, we found scum. Good one guys.

Vote Gorkat

also a probtownie

unless he's scum with gorckat then it's just distancing.

gorckat - town

[The Rufflig]

so you think i'm scum? or you think i'm an idiot

because those are very two different things

I think players that forget who they find scummy and who they find townie are more likely to be scum. It is okay if your reads evolve, but sudden changes in reads without any reasons is not okay. At the very least, I can't trust any of your reads or posts as they may be portraying things that you don't actually believe in. Why should I believe any of your town or scum reads, if you have no true basis? In addition, you're trying to give yourself a basis to hand wave away any scum slips you may make in your reads. Combine this with a lack of any analysis in your posts and I find that your contributions to the town are nearly worthless and that your play is somewhat scummy.

rufflig has played with me before when i was scum, whether he remembers it or not
if he does, then he knows that it's completely different than i am playing here

I did not recall ever playing with you before. I went back through all my old games and noted that your name was not listed in any of those games as a player or a replacement player. In the end, I had to check your wiki entry to figure out where I had played with you before. You played under an alt in that game. I don't claim to remember that game well enough to play a meta card here.

[The Rufflig]

@UberNinja: I've been thinking about that game we were in. I will admit that you are playing differently here, but I'm not sure that has any bearing on your alignment. One of the points of having an alt is so that one can try out different playing styles. However, I was town in that game and I do not have any alts. Why haven't you been able to come up with a read on me if you remember that game?

[The Rufflig]

In fact, you admitted to such

It was an experiment with a new play style for me, and I feared it would be ruined if people found out who I was.

[The Rufflig]

I'm not sure how us answering a question is "garbage" compared to your stupid spammy youtube links, but okay.

Well, there wasn't anything to talk about while I was spamming links. I was perhaps a bit hasty with charging that you were spewing garbage, but you've had plenty of time since then to make relevant comments. Other than a couple shots at UberNinja, you haven't thrown off any reads of any other players. Neither you nor anyone else is pushing for my lynch. So, what are you going to do next? Just more lurking? Your wagon is slightly bigger than Mr. Obvious'. With Slandaar vouching for UberNinja, I'm quite tempted to join it.

---

@Mr. Obvious: Your play really isn't any better than WT Snacks. Your initial vote on CoolDog reeked of a pressure vote rather than any real suspicion of him. Adding a couple minor reasons to lynch CoolDog after his wagon has started to die down is unhelpful. Like WT Snacks, you haven't thrown off much in the way of reads on other players. What is your next move? Why shouldn't I sheep Slandaar and vote for you?

[The Rufflig]

@ArcAngel9: With your new found feeling of scumdom towards CoolDog, has your read on UberNinja changed?

[The Rufflig]

Thanks for checking in, JacobSavage. I find it difficult to believe that you forgot about this game when your posts keep showing up about 2 hours before you are due to be prodded. We'll see you again in about 46 hours then?

[The Rufflig]

Well, I happen to know Limo and JacobSavage are both in Mainstream Mafia (large theme). I know they are both active in that game. I also know that Mainstream Mafia went into night 2 yesterday evening. So the two of them should have enough bloody time currently to play this game or decide they can't handle this many games and replace out!

[The Rufflig]

Heh, you'd have to go back to late 2011 to find the last time I drew a scum role (keep in mind I only play a few games a year - one at a time). My scum meta is fairly easy to pick up on though. I'm much more disinterested in those games. I enjoy the town roles a lot more. I like trying to figure out who the scum are. Yes, I'm that easy to read.

[The Rufflig]

To whom?

[The Rufflig]

I was wondering who you were going to report the post to. I'm not in the aforementioned game.

[The Rufflig]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: WT Snacks

[The Rufflig]

@WT what are your current reads at the moment. (Is this redundant current - moment?)

Good luck getting anything out of him. I've been trying for a few days now. Considering that he is a hydra and has two sets of eyes looking over the game, you'd think he'd be able to form some opinions - even 1 opinion, but no. He doesn't even get to play UberNinja's 'I'm generating discussion' card. He's actively posting nothing as opposed to Jacob inactively posting almost nothing.

In brighter news, hopefully we can get some content out of Limo's old spot now. Welcome, Syryana. SoraAdvent and korranth (remember him?) are due off vacation soon, so maybe we can get something from them as well.

[The Rufflig]

@WT Snacks: Posts #107, #109, #212, #269, and most recently #297

If you can't read intent in that then you aren't paying attention to the game. Thank you for the town reads, though. Who would you like to see lynched?

[The Rufflig]

@WT Snacks: I would understand if you withheld some of your town reads. There can be good reasons for that. Robbing the scum of information on who to nk falls under that. I don't understand the rationale to withhold your scum reads. Why do this?

[The Rufflig]

What is that you have for me?

He's referring to post #265.
---

@MrObvious: I'm curious. Why JacobSavage over WT Snacks? Have you played with either of them before? I've not played with either of them before as far as I know.

[The Rufflig]

- I'm also actually thinking Jacob might be scum. I played with him in a few other games and yeah, he lurks and is shitty, but I've seen his town game and this is a new level of shit, even for jacob.

There. Now you see, you just told me something that I didn't know. Why hide a scum read like that behind something like this?

That's just how Jacob plays. I've been in two+ other games with him and he just lurk lurk lurks. It's very annoying but not indicative of alignment.

That doesn't get scum lynched. That gives scum a pass for lurking.

[The Rufflig]

Nothing like a post-by-post analysis to get you out of a hole when you're scum, am I right Angel?

1) You asked the question.
2) She isn't in a hole.
3) This is an ad hominem argument
4) In your next post, you agree with some of her analysis (fluff/filler behavior), but disagree that this is scummy. However, you ignored the rest of her arguments.

[The Rufflig]

RE: WT Snacks -- Normally I don't interfere when a player is making points against another player. In this case I made an exception as I saw no basis for your points. Your post reminded me of a below the belt punch. In point of fact, I've made a post by post of UberNinja on gorckat without giving commentary on any of the individual posts. I don't recall any complaints about that post.

RE: SoraAdvent -- The case on WT Snacks is very similar to JacobSavage. The main difference between the two is the level of activity each has shown in this game.

[The Rufflig]

I'm going to pass on the ArcAngel9 wagon.

Only 3 days left to deadline. My preferred lynch is still WT Snacks. If it actually comes down to between ArcAngel9 and JacobSavage, I'll vote JacobSavage.

[The Rufflig]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: MrObvious

[The Rufflig]

Rufflig, please tell us again why you faked a PR.

*sigh*
---

Welcome back to the music, friends. MrObvious has requested a blast from the past. Our next song was an international hit reaching number 4 on the Billboard chart on the week of Easter in 1974. The song itself was a successful blend of rock music and biblical verse paving the way for modern contemporary Christian rock music. The song was sung by Sister Janet Mead (well worth reading about on wikipedia) who donated her share of the royalties from the song to charity. Here she is: Sister Janet Mead and The Lord's Prayer.

---

No. Feel free to make your case on me, though. Meanwhile, I'll just wait to see what gorckat has to say before jumping into that particular topic.

[The Rufflig]

It's both (what a shock)

Here is a musical riddle for you:
What do you get when you cross Star Trek (the original series) with J.R.R. Tolkien's The Hobbit?

Spoiler:

Leonard Nimoy singing The Ballad of Bilbo Baggins.

[The Rufflig]

So you decided to support my point back from page 3 because ... ?

[The Rufflig]

Do you honestly not see why CoolDog did not have a point?

CoolDog was trying to argue that I was scared of making an rvs vote and I was trying to avoid drawing attention to myself by faking a post restriction. Really? I'm scared of making a rvs vote so instead I guarantee that I'll bring the attention of every damn player in the game on me by pretending I have a post restricition. Yeah, ok. Go with the scared theory. I'd love to see you argue in favor of it.

[The Rufflig]

At any rate, let's talk about CoolDog's reason for voting me and the others, too.

His "I'm scared" theory is obviously a bunch of it. What I expected from a townie was questioning about the PR. As CoolDog stated fake PRs are very easy to see through. All CD had to do is establish what mine was and then watch for a slip, but he voted way before then. I would have accepted policy lynch as a valid reason for his vote or reaction testing or even that he thought my PR was obviously fake among other reasons. I got none of that from him or WT Snacks or SoraAdvent. I got terrible reasons from them for their votes that didn't hold any water. Why should I not have been suspicious of them? You guys can call it paranoid, if you want. I state that I had valid reasons for my suspicions.

[The Rufflig]

It's from scum who's upset that he got caught for the wrong reasons.

Hey, welcome to the game, WT Snacks! Glad to have you with us. We're happy to have a fresh set of eyes look over the game and give us some new opinions and insights. Would you care to back your opinion with a vote?

[The Rufflig]

Rufflig, Cooldog's spot on, could only be from a townie, post 69 kicked your ass so hard, you've been butthurt crying about it ever since.

So, do you need to change your name to MrClueless or MrScum? Because you are missing the obvious. CoolDog's post did not come from a townie viewpoint. I'd be curious to see how you think it could when I've just proven that CoolDog's logic was clearly made up crap in an attempt to justify a vote. Do you have any reasoning behind your arguments or do you just think if you repeat it enough times that it will magically become true? Ask CoolDog how well that latter strategy worked for him.

[The Rufflig]

I won't hammer.

Slandaar's case was iffy at best, imho. There are other ways to interpret what gorckat was saying. UberNinja's case ... ugh. I may have to revisit whether UberNinja is town or scum.

[The Rufflig]

You were already on my wagon, JacobSavage.

[The Rufflig]

^ Excellent!

So, why aren't you voting gorckat?

[The Rufflig]

@MOD:

May we have an extension?

[The Rufflig]

MrObvious (3) - The Rufflig, JacobSavage, WT Snacks

*Ahem* Much as I like the MrObvious wagon, I don't think the VC is correct.

Ty, fixed.
~4nx

[The Rufflig]

There is a reason I ask these things:

There is literally no way that our wagon is composed solely of townies. I'm looking at gorckat, possibly rufflig, and definitely Uber.

Yet, when gorckat was at L-1, you ignored him completely. The question being why?

[The Rufflig]

Gorckat was at L-1, we waited for the claim, what else is there to do?

Well, you could have voted for him before he hit L-1. Ok, so maybe you weren't around at that time. You could have added your comments or arguments for why gorckat was scum. You could have threatened a hammer to force a claim out of gorckat instead of just pointing out that gorckat was at L-1. You could have pressed him on any part of his play with questions as you were in a position to hammer him. After the claim while we were in deadline crunch, you might have mentioned that you were willing to hammer or going to hammer after a specific length of time. You might have decided that you didn't like the argument against gorckat and stated that you would not hammer. You might have stated that you weren't going to hammer a claimed PR day 1. In fact, there were many things you could have done besides be non-committal during deadline crunch to let the town know whether you would or would not help to lynch gorckat. Instead, you sat on the fence apparently content to let a no lynch happen until you were goaded.

As far as the way I'm wording my posts being irritating, you are correct. I've been goading you on purpose. I started out being polite and then direct. Neither approach worked. You did respond to me intentionally getting under your skin, so I've been doing that whenever I really want a response from you.

I see you're voting for me again. Do you think the scum was inactive while gorckat was getting run up or would you suspect that the scum tried to ignite interest in another wagon (that would be mine) during this time frame? I don't mind getting lynched, if the town will afterwards look at who was trying to revive my wagon while gorckat was getting lynched.

VOTE: MrObvious

I'd also be up for a WT Snacks lynch considering his play late yesterday.

[The Rufflig]

Welcome, Klick. Please breathe some life into your slot.

@WT Snacks: It's true that I wasn't on gorckat's wagon and that I had stated that I wouldn't hammer him. I acknowledge that such a move could look scummy. If you wish to go that route, you may recall that there was one other person who stated that they did not want to lynch gorckat after his claim. You haven't mentioned him. I find what you don't say just as interesting as what you do say. Or to be blunt, who else do you think is scummy? (Why am I always having to ask you this?) Any hunches on whether the last scum was on or off gorckat's wagon?

[The Rufflig]

@MrObvious: What is your case on Slandaar? I know you mentioned him as possible scum earlier, but I don't recall you ever saying why.

[The Rufflig]

Read Rufflig's iso. He has done zero scumhunting.

Pshaw! Well, if you're going to lie, you might as well lie big. Btw, I notice that you are still ignoring the questions I put to you. Ignoring them doesn't make them go away. I keep having to ask who are your suspects because 1) You don't tell us and 2) you aren't doing any scum hunting, so we can't tell who you suspect.

I don't suppose you'd care to answer any of the questions about your suspects or your play late yesterday? Didn't think so. Ok, just keep burying your head in the sand and hoping for the best.

[The Rufflig]

2) Demonstrably false.

Demonstrate it, liar.

@WT what are your current reads at the moment. (Is this redundant current - moment?)

WT, man, you gotta tells us your reads.

WT has a very low content to post ratio much like Jacob and UN and his rare content posts are vague as hell.

WT is prob scum, but who is your other head damn it. Also hiding reads never good.

BULLSHIT DETECTED

give us some fucking reads or your head will be on a pike

I have actually read through each post of her and has found nothing but a null.

That enough?

[The Rufflig]

We're not obligated to answer your questions.

Actually, let's try a different tack. Would someone please ask WT Snacks to answer my questions or re-ask the questions to him? Thanks.

Sooner or later you are going to have to answer the questions about your play, WT Snacks. This childish refusal only bought you a little time to come up with some answers.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: WT Snacks

[The Rufflig]

@Mod:

Did I miss a V/LA from korranth? Isn't he past due for a prod?

[The Rufflig]

@MrObvious: Are you an alt?

[The Rufflig]

@WT Snacks: Why do you keep saying we? There is only 1 of you present in that shell.

[The Rufflig]

Do you think the scum was inactive while gorckat was getting run up or would you suspect that the scum tried to ignite interest in another wagon (that would be mine) during this time frame?

Try again, scum. Gorkat had 2 votes when I voted you. That's hardly a wagon that needs to be distracted from. I'd gladly support a Slandaar lynch as well.

I'll admit that your vote (with no case) came while gorckat had only 2 votes. However, your case on me didn't come until after gorckat was at L-1, at which point you did start pushing for my lynch.

Let's go over your case, shall we?

Why did Rufflig fake a PR?

Reason 1 - get us out of the RVS
Reason 2 - gather reactions.

Scummily inconsistent!

My apologies for snipping the quoted parts out, but they weren't necessary. What gets the game out of rvs? Content. What is content at the beginning of a game? Reactions to posts or reactions to lack of posts mainly. Why is getting out of rvs scummily inconsistent with gathering reactions? This is the thrust of your initial argument, but it doesn't make any sense to me. Would you care to explain?

---

Your next argument involved my dismissal of CoolDog's "points". You dismissed my argument that CoolDog's "points" had no basis in favor of a lynch all liars approach.

You are missing the point. I really don't care what Cooldog's argument was. Whether you like it or not, or agree with them or not, Cooldog had made several points when you said he had made none.

The trouble is that your first argument supported some of CoolDog's arguments and you obviously care about CoolDog's arguments from your next post.

Rufflig, Cooldog's spot on, could only be from a townie, post 69 kicked your ass so hard, you've been butthurt crying about it ever since.

---

You also try to link me with JacobSavage.

It is clear to see here that Rufflig is coaching his scumbuddy JacobSavage.

You should know better than this. You can't make a link like this without knowing either player's alignment. You are concluding that I am scum based off JacobSavage's alignment. I think the tv legal phrase is "Objection! Assumes facts not in evidence".

---

It is possible that the scum did not try to push a competing wagon. In which case, korranth and SoraAdvent come readily to mind. Neither of them appeared to be around while gorckat was at L-1. Unfortunately, neither of them is available for questioning -- we can only question their replacements.

---

I'm going to leave off JacobSavage for now for a couple of reasons. The most important being that I want to hear his answer to Syryana.

[The Rufflig]

@WT Snacks: Wow. Way to not read anything I wrote. I wasn't defending my actions. I was showing what crappy, misleading and contradictory arguments MrObvious was piling on me while gorckat was at L-1 as this was possible scum activity to save gorckat.

You said that this analysis on MrObvious is

obvious

and shallow -- however, this implies that you actually agree with it. So why didn't you list MrObvious as one of your suspects? You've been asked about your other scum reads a number of times today and refused to answer (or ignored the question) each time. If it's

obvious

that MrObvious is scummy, then why didn't you say so earlier? Why are you giving him a pass?

What was your argument against me again? Oh yeah, scum caught for the wrong reason. Huh ... and you never called out MrObvious for his

obviously

slimy cases. Why is that?

As far as my not going to vote anyone -- now you're

obviously

just making things up now in order to try and push my lynch through.

[The Rufflig]

And that is not the point. It honestly wouldn't have mattered whose wagon was pushed. What matters is that a wagon was pushed that was not gorckat's while he was at L-1. Since gorckat flipped scum, the motive behind those pushing the rival wagon is questionable as that motive may have actually been to save a scum buddy. So when I rip apart the arguments made by those on the rival wagon, I'm trying to separate the misguided townies from the nefarious scum. Thus far, both you and WT Snacks have refused to justify your respective plays. The one thing that you have going for you over WT Snacks is the willingness to look at others not on gorckat's wagon and not pressing a rival wagon. As the scum may have laid low and done nothing whatsoever to try and save gorckat. The one thing that I am adamant about is that the two remaining scum were NOT both on gorckat's wagon unless one of the scum turns out to be WT Snacks. If I was to hazard a guess as to what scum may have been on gorckat's wagon, I would say ArcAngel9, but only from a weak poe -- you might have noticed that in spite of being active and in favor of a WT lynch that she hasn't put a vote down on anyone, yet (fence sitting).

[The Rufflig]

Pointing out what how bad a case is that someone made on you is called defending yourself.

In this case, it's pointing out potentially scummy behavior. Now, if I was just ripping the post apart for the hell of it, then you might have a point. But I'm not and you don't. gorckat was at L-1 while MrObvious pushed this "case". The scum has a

motive

to make such a weak case and push it hard while their scum buddy is at L-1 in an attempt to save him. Unless you can address this

motive

head on then your argument is meaningless. I would also like to point out that MrObvious completely ignored the gorckat wagon.

Do you not have anything else to say? I recall about a half dozen unanswered questions to you that you've ignored in spite of being asked to answer them by a second player. Do I need to ask more of the players to second those questions to you? Let me ask another question: if you agree that MrObvious was pushing a weak case and had motive as a scum to do so then why aren't you questioning a single thing he says (or questions that he ignores)? Why aren't you doing any scum hunting?

[The Rufflig]

I made it clear he was at the scummiest position of my null list. Keep trying.

That was while gorckat had only 2 votes. When he was at L-1, you never mentioned him and instead pushed for my lynch. You gave no indication at all on how you felt about the gorckat wagon. There was no indication of whether you would or would not hammer gorckat.

---

Anyway, let's get to the heart of the matter. Both WT Snacks and MrObvious have admitted (by default) that they have a possible scummy motive for pushing a different wagon while gorckat was at L-1. Further, both of them have refused to answer any questions (extremely anti-town position) about their play to help determine which (if either) of them is a sincere townie or insincere scum. As such, they both remain as my top suspect and I am willing to lynch both of them, at any time.

[The Rufflig]

PROBLEM DETECTED!!!!!!!!! The word meta was used in a defense.

You should listen to her. ArcAngel9, Klick and I were all in a game together recently (it ended just a bit before this one began). In that game I was town. Sadly, ArcAngel9 and Klick were both scum. Although Klick ended up replacing out midway through day 2, he may have a handle on how I play as town.

ArcAngel9 is playing somewhat differently than last game (where she played dumb).

Klick is playing the exact same way as last game - scarce content and repeated broken promises to give reads. I have no idea if he plays this way as town.

[The Rufflig]

Oh, I should probably mention Guille2015 as well since he was in that same game. Guille2015 (townie) was vigged N1. So, not as much to go on here, but I'm feeling town from him.

[The Rufflig]

@MrObvious: Meaningless posturing and name calling. Present your rationale. Failure to do so means that you have defaulted on this point - thus you have a possible motive. The only way to avoid default is to compete against the point. Question: how could this point not contain truth only in regards to you? Why can it be true for WT Snacks, but not you? From an objective viewpoint, the case is identical for both of you. I can even point to past games where scum have voted for a rival wagon in an effort to save their scum buddy. That last game I mentioned? Yeah, both scum ended up on a rival wagon on day 2 in an effort to save their scum buddy (they failed).

[The Rufflig]

Eh -- make that two scum on the rival wagon. One of them was the scum actually getting lynched.

[The Rufflig]

Ok.
UNVOTE:
VOTE: klick

[The Rufflig]

Heh, yet another person from my last game joins.

Welcome, havingfitz.

[The Rufflig]

Then acknowledge me instead. When you sign up for a game, you are making a commitment to the mod and all the other players in the game that you will play. This is the second game in a row that you have reneged on your commitment. You saw how players reacted last game to that one player who wouldn't play. There was anger towards him and some talk of blacklisting him. It seems to me that you aren't too far away from that status.

I may have phrased it nicer than havingfitz, but it is the same point with much of the same feelings.

[The Rufflig]

^
Two of your suspects are viable wagons. What are you waiting for? Make a choice and vote. If you're really feeling daring, make a case as well.

---

Why kick Guille over voting for someone that you are willing to lynch?

[The Rufflig]

1) You WERE a viable wagon until your scumbuddy Guile hopped off when you got to L-1
2) I meant to include Guile on that list but I was in a rush to finish the post
3) Currently voting my biggest scumread while you've spent the whole game defending yourself because you're upset you got outed as scum for the wrong reasons, too early in D1

1) Pay attention to the game. Maybe then you can start scum hunting and giving some reads and analysis. Guille was voting for klick. Guille has never voted for me. I've never been at L-1.
2) All right - I guess. I mean, yeah, that read sucks, but I guess I can buy that you forgot to include one of your reads. I don't suppose you'd be willing to explain that read?
3) Turn off the tape machine. You've been saying that since day 1. You've yet to make any headway. Time to face reality, I'm not going to be lynched today. We're darn close to another deadline crunch, so how about you make yourself useful and put your vote somewhere where it will count for something?

[The Rufflig]

@WT Snacks: *Yawn* Let me know when you're ready to start playing the game. Your trolling has gotten tiresome.

[The Rufflig]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: JacobSavage

[The Rufflig]

@MattP: Thanks for tearing through MrObvious' logic. I wasn't looking forward to doing it. It probably meant more coming from a fresh set of eyes than from me.

[The Rufflig]

Blatant prod dodge.

[The Rufflig]

I think it's more likely a dayvig than an SK, reason being there was no kill on Day 1. The likelihood of there being a DayDoc (or insert protective/blocker role here) that got lucky and blocked the SK Day 1 is pretty low IMO.

*frowns* I don't think you can draw that conclusion. I suspect that we're dealing with the variation of an arsonist. This type of arsonist primes his victim at night and then can ignite him during the day/twilight. Specifically, that lack of an alignment flip of his victims makes me think the role may not be town.

[The Rufflig]

It's just a guess. The fiery death flavor combined with the theme flavor made me think arsonist. While arsonists can be town, I rather suspect this one is not. I don't recall anyone voicing suspicions of Guille on day 1, so a vig kill of Guille seems less likely than a sk kill, imo.

[The Rufflig]

Anyway, I did a little math, we have a problem. 8 alive. 1 mislynch and 1 more vig/sk kill probably means game over. I am in favor of a mass claim, at this time. Thoughts?

[The Rufflig]

Actually, nevermind.

[The Rufflig]

Since we are playing the speculation game, my guess is the reason there was no D1 kill is because the targeted(Slandaar) is bullet/fireproof.

VOTE: Slandaar

I don't understand this. Assuming that Slandaar is bulletproof, for the moment, how does that make him scum? The only possible missing kill is the fiery one, so if Slandaar ate the fiery death kill D1 then he isn't the sk using it. Thus a scummy Slandaar could only be mafia, but I doubt the mafia would receive protection from a sk (or even a vig) kill as that really hurts the town balance wise.

On a related note, why assume Slandaar is bulletproof? Why not WT Snacks who has claimed to have a passive day ability?

[The Rufflig]

Stolen items: I find it difficult to credit that both CoolDog and MrObvious both had an item stolen from them night 2 while there were no reported thefts night 1. It seems to me that it is CoolDog who is putting on an act for us and using this issue to vote for MrObvious.

[The Rufflig]

Ok. I'm willing to believe MrObvious tried to kill Slandaar. Two big questions remain.

1) How does Slandaar being fireproof make him scum?
2) If MrObvious truly thought Slandaar was scummy then why did he wait until day 3 under threat of being lynched to come forward with this information?

While the less or breadcrumb is interesting, its value is questionable as scum have access to fake claims. The bbq crumb definitely hints at a role power though I don't see how it ties into lessor.

@WT Snacks: What do you think of MrObvious' claim of lessor and bbq based on your own role?

[The Rufflig]

I haven't heard anyone step up and say they targeted Slandaar on D1.

He's now said it.

[The Rufflig]

If I claim we may aswell just massclaim I think

I don't understand why town would have some kind of dayvig who burns people so we don't know their alignment though.

No need for a full claim. At the moment, it doesn't matter. It appears that I was wrong about the arsonist variant.

Cooldog's account of what items MrObvious had differs from MrObvious claims to have had. That rather narrows down the choices for today's lynch, imo.

Ever played with a GF? They are, more often than not, bulletproof. Since my action is burn, it would make sense to me that in this game a GF would be fireproof.

Indeed, I have played in and read games with a GF (or godfather like role) before, but never one that was bulletproof -- occasionally, the GF would have a second ability. Could you show me a

mini

that had a BP GF? I suspect that the role you are describing would be more common to large games (which I don't play or read very often).

[The Rufflig]

We have no private communication with MrObv. Our role PM said that the Lessor existed, but we were not told who he was.

Did it state that the Lessor was town aligned?

[The Rufflig]

TWO PEOPLE GOT SHIT STOLEN???? DOES NOT COMPUTE. YOU STOLE MY MOTHER FUCKING THING.

I didn't steal shit. I salvaged the first night and got metal scraps. Someone stole them last night and I tried to salvage again, but the action failed. I now have no items.

Sure you do. What about that prophetic augmentation??? How did you get that? hm?

^ This right here. Either CoolDog or MrObvious is lying. I will not support any other lynch today.

VOTE: MrObvious]

[The Rufflig]

So, either MrObv or CoolDoG is lying about being stolen from, so you want to lynch the dayvig? Are you sane?

The sk has been conspicuously ignoring CoolDog in favor of lynching someone else. I surmise that a CoolDog lynch will therefore prove that CoolDog is telling the truth and that MrObvious is the one who has been lying. How else do you explain MrObvious' behavior?

[The Rufflig]

If I say you're scum and you say you're town, does that mean we must lynch one of us since one of us is lying? Do you have any reason to think its MrObvious that has your item?

That's a bit of a distortion. A better analogy would be If I say I am a cop and that you are scum and you say that you are town, does that mean we must lynch one of us since one of us is lying?

Keep in mind, MrObvious claimed what items he had received this game -- CoolDog claims to be able to see and steal other players items. CoolDog claims to have seen an item in MrObvious' possession that MrObvious did not mention. This isn't a mere matter of an opinion that someone is scum. We're dealing with facts now.

[The Rufflig]

UNVOTE:

Where did CD claim this? I missed it.

This

Sure you do. What about that prophetic augmentation??? How did you get that? hm?

plus this

PLUS. NOT EVERYTHING IS STOLLEN JUST ONE THING. AND IT DOESN'T STEAL YOUR GODDAMN ITEM THAT YOU JUST GOT TONIGHT. BECAUSE IT IS ONLY ONE ITEM.

Where CoolDog is telling us part of how the steal mechanism works.

How else are you suppose to interpret that?

[The Rufflig]

WT Snacks: It wasn't a terrible plan, but you probably should have tried shooting for the mafia that had not claimed that he could be untargetable. For example, set your target to Syryana before voting for HavingFitz - if Syryana doesn't take the bait then unvote and switch your target to ArcAngel9.

Slandaar and Syryana, you both played a good game. Well done.