[Mini 1447] Misaligned Malignant Multi-verse Mafia (abandon)

[Arc]

Serrapaladin was awfully quick to abuse Nacho's name...also shares part of the name with a rather obselete MTG card...Chedder...

VOTE: SerraPaladin

[Arc]

UNVOTE

VOTE: TCS

Everyone knows piss tastes awful.

PimHel kinda came off as a bit scummy for trying to read into this really quicky, its pretty standard RVS. Though trying to kill RVS with fire seems Pro Town. Eh, nothing yet.

[Arc]

Nah, not much actually happening yet. I hope it does soon, I absolutely despise RVS.

[Arc]

UNVOTE:

I am Bear "Grilles," according to my role PM though. So it seems to me that the only way you could possibly have come to think of that gambit is that you're a Lyncher and I'm the lynchee.

Boring.

Wait I actually ferreted you out. I'm genuinely a genius, aren't I? I'm not a lyncher however, just a townie with some information.

This puts a bad taste in my mouth. Want to share it?

[Arc]

UNVOTE: VOTE: TCS
Les Stroud is much cooler.

And Arc, if you want rvs stage to end then you do have the power to make it end.

Its kinda hard to end it when three or four of the players haven't made it to the game and nobody has made a post of more than 4 lines. I could make up scumreads but that won't do the town any good and just make me look like a dumbass in a couple gamedays, when I'm likely to have at least one good scumread and I need people to actually listen to me.

For as much as I hate it, it does serve a purpose, and it is hard to get out of if nobody is giving much to go on.

But Emp and TCS seem to have given us something to go on. I personally want to hear what Emp has to say about his "information" before I do anything about it though.

[Arc]

UNVOTE:

I am Bear "Grilles," according to my role PM though. So it seems to me that the only way you could possibly have come to think of that gambit is that you're a Lyncher and I'm the lynchee.

Boring.

Wait I actually ferreted you out. I'm genuinely a genius, aren't I? I'm not a lyncher however, just a townie with some information.

This puts a bad taste in my mouth. Want to share it?

Bear Grilles is in the game; it's just that.

Does anyone know anything about an afterlife?

You make me doubt your claim as soon as you make it.

VOTE: Empking

[Arc]

If the question isn't philosophical, then No, I don't know anything about an afterlife. I know there is a character involved in this that should know about an afterlife, but I don't know anything myself.

[Arc]

No, I probably have an entirely different role than you do. The information I have isn't, "this person is in the game", its more that I inferred it from multiple sources that Jebus posted and or arrived in my role pm.

I'm not even sure if its just a false trail. It very well could be in a bastard game.

THe reason I find you suspicious is that immediately after saying, "The only information I was given is that Bear Grylls is in the game", you said, "Hey does anyone know anything about X". This is a heavy tell of a lie. You were given more information.

Now, whether its a scumtell, or just a lie to protect your town role. It makes me suspicious.

@Nacho, Its not that I find his approach scummy per say, its more that I think he lied and I find it suspicious. So I voted him. My vote will likely change as soon as more information is availiable.

[Arc]

Eh, Emp is looking more town the more he posts. I was hoping to catch him on something definite.

UNVOTE:

I don't like TCS's reaction either, but with tells on so few of the players, I'm not comfortable jumping on the wagon just yet.

Zdenek, What makes me scum?

[Arc]

Vote: Arc

I thought the wagon on you was stupid until that post.

Eh, sorry if I'm a bit uneloquent today, I'm recovering from a minor concussion and hava a massive headache.

I found Empking suspicious since I saw what appeared to be a lie. I still call it as a lie, and still find it suspicious, but the speed of his responses and how he isn't avoiding any of my questions makes me think that he is most likely a town role with a reason to mess with the person TCS claims to be. I'd like not to lynch either of them until I see more evidence pointing to either one.

And then my question to Zd was just asking what he finds to be scummy in me.

Even information that seems to point to me being scum is information, and more information in the hands of the town is a good thing.

Again, sorry if I appear to be rather inelegant today, I'm not much in the mood for easing information out of people.

[Arc]

Vote: Zdenek

THis is a combination of OMGUS and a lack of an explaination as to why you are trying to lynch me.

The reason I brought up my concussion is that it is making me much more blunt than usual, I'm assuming he is unvoting me because I also explained my actions in greater detail in that post.

BTW, remember that Jebus has a rule where you have to unvote before your revote counts. Just to let you know.

[Arc]

Vote: Zdenek

THis is a combination of OMGUS and a lack of an explaination as to why you are trying to lynch me.

The reason I brought up my concussion is that it is making me much more blunt than usual, I'm assuming he is unvoting me because I also explained my actions in greater detail in that post.

BTW, remember that Jebus has a rule where you have to unvote before your revote counts. Just to let you know.

I am not doubting you had a concussion, but it is a strange bit of defense just as someone is voting you because of an iffy statement you made. And to be clear, I think Nacho was voting you because of what you said, not how 'eloquently'(or not elequently) you said it. What I don't quite get is why Nacho unvoted you.
UNVOTE: VOTE: ArcI can leave TCS for this. The Avenger, join me on this adventure.

My defense is that I didn't explain my actions very well for that post, rereading it, I can agree I looked a bit scummy there. When I made the next post, the one with the misspelling you pointed out, I explained myself and explained why I was acting a bit blunt and why I didn't explain myself very well. I tend to be a bit of a blunt asshole when I have a headache, and my entire head was pounding when the game started, so my first posts where rather brash.

I never said any of you doubted I had a concussion, I brought that back up because Zd was seemingly using it as a basis for swaying people on me. I've explained myself on this, and I feel like actually contributing to the game, Who else do you think is scum? You were sitting on TCS for a while, but you haven't actually commented on the Empking/TCS "gambit" on page 1, what is your opinion on this? If I get lynched and I flip town, who would you suspect next?

[Arc]

I'm just asking your reasoning of sitting on him earlier. I honestly don't care if you sit on me all day as long as I don't get misslynched. I'm not trying to deflect, I'm trying to generate discussion. Note the first question I asked you wasn't even about him, just about your scum reads in general. I'll say it again, Is there anyone else you find suspicious?

Nobody did, I'm calling myself a blunt asshole when I've got a headache. ANd sorry, I thought you were pointing out a misspelling of elequence, My bad.

Nah, I thought Nacho's post was about me not explaining myself very well on my post. Though, I'm not actually going to say his reasoning for his vote on me, or his unvote on me because I don't know his reasoning.

So, are you gonna actually discuss anything, or are you just going to bus me for a while?

[Arc]

Well, where I usually play, its akin to "throwing someone under the bus", and is usually used in the context of someone pushing a lynch hard for whatever reason they want that person dead.

Here it tends to be used in a more focused way that is just scum trying to distance themselves from their partners.

If I slip up and use the definition I'm more used to, I apologize.

He is suddenly pushing hard for a lynch on me and seems to be avoiding my attempts to start any type of discussion. I'd like to see some more of that, so even if I get misslynched day one, there is some discussion to look back on and scumhunt off of.

[Arc]

Generally speaking on Day 1 I try to find one scum and stick with that person until someone else is scummy. I don't really think about who else could be scum until we have caught one. Right now I feel very strongly that Arc is scum and will make sure he is the one who is lynched.

If I were to play devils advocate though, the interaction between empking/TCS seems a bit weird but there is little to no chance I would switch to one of them at this point.

Pimhel, what about this wagon bothers you? Is there something that screams town about Arc to you? To me he appears as classic noob scum. Got caught and instantly try to deflect attention to who else could be scum(in his case TCS).

Sorry to whoever is his scumbuddy(s), but I am not going anywhere.

Thanks, I like answers and I was reading you a bit town, so the lack of them was getting me rathered frustrated. And actually, I don't care for a TCS lynch, if you are suggesting that I was trying to deflect to him, out of the two I see Empking as more suspicious. I have also stated already, after I've been "caught" that I would prefer not to lynch either one of them until we get something more clear on the matter.

If you want, feel free to sit your vote on me all day, I don't mind a bit as long as I can get a reasoning from it.

its more that I inferred it from multiple sources that Jebus posted

What are these sources? I've probably missed them.

Where do you usually play mafia?

Just for clarity, I wasn't actually trying to lynch you. If I was, I'd probably have made more of a case.

Eh, the background for my character in combination with the introductory post made it quite clear to me that there either should be or there is someone connected to the afterlife in this game. Not sure how that person would be connected, but know there probably will be. This is at least a semi bastard game, so it could very well be a false lead thrown into my role PM with a vague intro post leading me to that.

I used to run a website and a bunch of people there played(around 50 or so), I've put in about twenty games there, of various sizes, all the way from a 9 person game to a 20 person game. Unfortunately the members abandoned it and the site has closed down. I've also put in a couple games in a few other places, but not in a large number. THe games I"m used to are a bit faster paced than here, so I'm still trying to get used to slowing down my pushes to lynch. So yeah, I probably sound a bit noobish coming into a meta that has games last for months.

Well thanks for the answer, as I said above I like to get information out on the table, as it helps everyone figure things out. If you are trying to lynch me, I'd like to see the reasoning behind such a vote on the table, so everyone can gain, also, with people making more informative posts, it could be easier to find scum, depending on their skill.

UNVOTE:

Now Empking getting all defensive and listing his reasoning as "I'm Obvtown" brings my suspicion back up. I think I'll put it back on him for a while.
VOTE: Empking

[Arc]

No, I think I have the strength of mind not to get on a mafia site when I'm drunk.

I have a question for you now, why are you "obvtown"? I haven't seen anything that points strongly towards either alignment yet, but I do find you suspicious already. So if you made an "obvtown" post somewhere and I missed it, I'd like to see it. :rollseyes:

[Arc]

No, I think I have the strength of mind not to get on a mafia site when I'm drunk.

I have a question for you now, why are you "obvtown"? I haven't seen anything that points strongly towards either alignment yet, but I do find you suspicious already. So if you made an "obvtown" post somewhere and I missed it, I'd like to see it. :rollseyes:

The rollsseyes there is overcompensating btw.

I'm the only player properly invested in this game and trying to find the scum, ergo obvtown. Compare me to Whiskers, for example, I don't think he's said one word that could be construed as useful.

I wanted to make sure the sarcasm was really thick there, as it sometimes gets lost in the transition when just communicating through words.

Being invested heavily in the game isn't alignment indicative, Scum can also be very invested in the game.

Pim put my response to FuDuzn in his very post. I was asking why he voted on someone who had only really been involved in one event without stating the reason or commenting on event in question. Also in the same post, I had at least attempted to address the suspicions on myself by pointing to answers I had made to the same questions.

Also, in response to Pim saying Empking is a bad vote, I can agree that it is a bit of an uninformed vote, as the only thing I have going for it is a bit of suspicion, but I don't necessarily see it as a bad vote.

So to you Pimhel, Who do you think is scum at the moment, I'm interested in hearing it.

[Arc]

I'm really starting to think Whiskers has a posting restriction.

Do you have a posting restriction or are you just trying out an insane playstyle?

[Arc]

The only thing I've seen you do all game is try to finger TCS as a survivor, which isn't actually a neccessary detriment to the town. I haven't seen you post anything that says you think someone is definately scum, you've pointed a light finger at both Fuduzn and TCS, but nothing saying why or even a serious case on them.

Also, being active during day one is a good play for scum as it will give them more credibility late game if they dont' slip up. They have as much of a reason to be active as the town does early game.

[Arc]

Serra, not trying to be snotty, but do you know what playing devils advocate means? I said that because I have no other real scum read besides Arc and if there was even remotely anything that I feel that could be looked at as possibly scummy it would be that interaction.

Pim, I see what you are getting at. But the timing of him asking me about that is part of why I think he is scum, it is a classic case of deflection. Just as heat is coming on to me he try's to get the person most suspicious of him(me) to talk about something else.

And I don't think there is a rule against faking a post restriction, I know I have seen uberninja do it. Though I guess that doesn't really mean anything I guess lol.

That was me finding the argument useless for the continuing scum hunt since I had already answered all the questions that were being thrown at me, so I was trying to generate discussion, that way we would have a better chance of finding the scum on day one.

I don't know who that is >.<

Its Hellen Keller, who didn't have any language until she learned sign language, it could make sense as his character and explain his posting restriction. I'm a bit wary to believe it just yet, but I'd like to not lynch him just because posting only pictures is suspicious.

The implication is that you're arguing a stance that's not yours, but that's not necessarily how it's used. You don't need to play devil's advocate to point out there's something weird going on between Emp/TCS. Regardless, those sort of conditional statements are quite a clever way to phrase an argument, as someone who agrees with it will have it reflect positively on you, while someone who disagrees will find it negated by the preface.

There is nothing wrong with how he phrased his argument, it was quite clear he finds me to be a devil and to "play the devil's advocate" would be to listen to what I'm saying and play along with the questions I was asking.

On Other news, While I'm not V/LA during the weekend, I'm pretty much V/LA during weekends. Its the only time of week I don't have to work so usually I get bombarded with things to do, and don't have a lot of time. If I take a bit to answer stuff, sorry, I'm trying my best.

[Arc]

2. is for both cases.
And there were more players having doubts about his post restriction. TCS only said it clearly why it didn't work as Helen Keller. If others who were doubting the Post Restriction already would think that TCS has a point, then Whiskers could have been attacked by it.

Actually, flavor wise, it could STILL make sense that Whiskers had a post restriction, and is lying about lying. Hellen Keller had no way to learn language until she was taught it through sign language. Whiskers could have easily had a post restriction where he could only post images until someone named hellen keller. Though, I kinda doubt that at this point. Whiskers, do you claim hellen keller, or was that just a troll claim? Not that it matters since you denied the posting restriction, but w/e.

Buh. This game needs an adrenaline injection or something. It's kinda hard to get any reads I feel great about when most everyone is standing around the water cooler filing their nails.

I know the feeling, but I'm partly to blame for being away all weekend.

Towards your question directed at me, my early attempted read at PimHel ended up being nothing but a mixed read, I was just trying to get some serious discussion going at the beginning of the game while failing horribly at it, also he feels definately town at this point.

At this point, I'm feeling at least one of TCS/Empking as scum, Leaning towards Empking at the moment, but it is rather close. I also don't like the way Fud is defending himself against Zdenek, but I'm not sure whether to take it as scummy, so I'm gonna leave it alone at the moment.

[Arc]

2. is for both cases.
And there were more players having doubts about his post restriction. TCS only said it clearly why it didn't work as Helen Keller. If others who were doubting the Post Restriction already would think that TCS has a point, then Whiskers could have been attacked by it.

Actually, flavor wise, it could STILL make sense that Whiskers had a post restriction, and is lying about lying. Hellen Keller had no way to learn language until she was taught it through sign language. Whiskers could have easily had a post restriction where he could only post images until someone named hellen keller. Though, I kinda doubt that at this point. Whiskers, do you claim hellen keller, or was that just a troll claim? Not that it matters since you denied the posting restriction, but w/e.

No, I'm not hellen keller, nor do I have a posting restriction. But that's kind of what I was going for after the third post or so, a post restriction that lifted when [x].

I want desperately to claim, but I'm not sure how useful it will be to me or you.

Thats what I thought, but I wanted to see what you said about it before debate got any further on the issue.

[Arc]

Gut mostly. TCS looks more like scum of the pair, but Empking feels more like scum. Honestly I could vote either way at the moment.

[Arc]

Votecount 1.8

FuDuzn (3) - FourTrouble, Empking, Zdenek
Zdenek (2) - Whiskers, Serrapaladin
FourTrouble (1) - The Central Scrutinizer
Arc (1) - FuDuzn
Nachomamma8 (1) - Tammy
Empking (1) - Arc
GuyInFreezer (1) - The Avering
The Central Scrutinizer (1) - Nachomamma8
Whiskers (1) - PimHel

Not Voting (0)

The vote in post 187 (Tammy for The Central Scrutinizer) does not count because lack of unvote.

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

<snip> Mod error because TCS has a long name.

Also Jebus, Is this vote count accurate? Especially the bolded part. I'm assuming mod error.

[Arc]

Oops, butchered the quote and started a new page, sorry about that, and any confusion it may cause.

[Arc]

@TCS, what Avering just said is true, neither of you have the support needed to build a wagon against today. My post was just stating that I find you very nearly equally scummy, but if one of you is scum, the likelyhood that the other is scum goes down greatly in my eyes. In this situation, I'm likely to support either lynching.

Though, the post I'm responding to just makes you look more scummy to me. Instead of asking why you appeared more like scum, which I assumed nacho would anyway, and defending yourself, or trying to defend yourself with an attack of some sort, you try to warp what I said in response to nacho.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: THE CENTRAL SCRUTINIZER

Thanks for convincing me.

[Arc]

Gut mostly. TCS looks more like scum of the pair, but Empking feels more like scum. Honestly I could vote either way at the moment.

Translation: "plz someone build a wagon for one of these guys so I can vote without responsibility; I'm not choosy which."

...you do realize that he was already voting empking at the time, right?

Have been all game, almost got lynched because I backed off a bit because my read wasn't as much scum at that point as it was just suspicious. That has slipped back closer to scum, but after TCS's post earlier, I feel he is more likely at the moment.

Also, @TCS, my problem isn't with the attack, its the method of the attack. Instead of bringing up evidence that I'm either full of shit or scum, you poorly paraphrased me to try to make me look as such. I find that tactic is usually used by scum, as it doesn't really give any information but still can get the job done if people take it as fact.

[Arc]

BTW Tammy, I'm not sure if you noticed earlier, but unvotes are required in this game, so whether it is intentional or not, you are currently sitting on nacho.

[Arc]

Arc's post 199 is bad. His unjustified distinction between "looks like scum" and "feels like scum" does give off the vibe of wanting a wagon on either, while wanting to seem involved in wagon formation.

I'm gonna point out that I was arguing heavily on Empking earlier in the day, and the fact that I was responding directly to Nacho when he posted this.

Leaning towards Empking at the moment, but it is rather close.

Why on earth is that?

Without context, yeah it looks rather noncommital, but when it is the direct response to another player's question over why I'm pushing a certain lynch over another lynch I said I would support, not so much.

Are we dead set on lynching TCS? Every post Fuduzn makes, I want to lynch him. Actually,

Unvote
Vote: Fuduzn

The last few pages made me suspect him more, and I'm getting an uneasy feeling about tammy, but I can't put my finger on what is bothering me about her at all. Fuduzn is much easier to pinpoint. He is attacking people for factors that don't exist inside the game, and the entire discussion between him and tammy feels like he is trying to stretch doubt that should already exist on her to set up a lynch in the future.

The first one bothers me greatly, and the second one bothers me more than it probably should. I had him at a town read earlier in the day, so this doesn't change it to a scum read, but I feel its something I must reevaluate at the moment.

@PimHel, In post 244 you said you have a town read on Avering, who claimed a role who can turn himself into a survivor, but you later say you don't trust any role that can win with scum. If both of these factors are true, then why do you trust Avering, from 221 it seems he is alluding to the fact that he can control the change to survivor, if this is true, then there is really no difference between that role and a normal survivor role, and it makes me more nervous than Whiskers, who said that he must meet certain conditions before he can win with either alignment. That part makes it sound like he would have to paly to their win condition in order to win with them. If we are going to force full claims based on survivor-like roles, I'd like to know more about how Avering switches to survivor than whisker's claim.

[Arc]

Personal insults based on things that have no merit to the game has no place inside of the game. At the best, it doesn't help anyone in the game, at the worst, it helps scum. If you want to be snarky to a player, find a merit in the game, or I'm gonna start reevaluating my read on you. Differing usage could explain why you found your comment snarky and I find it more of an attack, either way it bothers me.

And the other part to my supposed protection of whiskers was just asking PimHel why he was being illogical and asking from a full claim from a claim that seems less dangerous to town. Whiskers claim suggests that he would at least have to help the town in order to win with the town, though there are several ways he could win with several alignments. I may or may not be for or against full claims, but I think if we are going to push for full claims, we should push for people to claim that say they can choose to screw us over before people who imply they would have to meet criteria to win with a certain team.

Also, someone who has to met criteria to win with a side could be useful in other ways, for example:

While this discussion is up, whiskers, in post 231, you say you can win with any faction, not "win with either the scum or the town", was this a slip that there is more than two factions in this game? It would be helpful information if you could let us know.

[Arc]

I was suggesting the slip was on your part, not Jebus', from your earlier posts, I read it as you had to meet certain criteria in order to win with a faction, which would have given you more information than us.

Finding your claim slightly more dangerous now, but I still find The Avering's more dangerous in general, neither of which should be a problem until later in the game, but if we are even suggesting trying to force lynches or full claims on survivor-like softclaims, I suggest we choose the person who says they can screw us over at will instead of the person who says they have to be careful to win with either faction. Still curious about that, I'll have to remember to look up your role at endgame and see how it worked.

[Arc]

Also, at the number of alternate win conditions I'm hearing about in softclaims, this rule in particular makes me a bit nervous.

-Factional win conditions may potentially end the game.

[Arc]

Personal insults based on things that have no merit to the game has no place inside of the game. At the best, it doesn't help anyone in the game, at the worst, it helps scum. If you want to be snarky to a player, find a merit in the game, or I'm gonna start reevaluating my read on you. Differing usage could explain why you found your comment snarky and I find it more of an attack, either way it bothers me.

Who, in particular , is this aimed at?

You. I have you at a strong town read before your recent interactions, that likely isn't going to change, but it is something to note.

Also, at the number of alternate win conditions I'm hearing about in softclaims, this rule in particular makes me a bit nervous.

-Factional win conditions may potentially end the game.

Note Factional, not personal. Do you not have a personal win condition?

Yes, I do. This seems to suggest that there may be a way for a faction to win before endgame, outside of a standard win condition, and it makes me a bit nervous. If there were just standard win conditions for factions, then this rules inclusion wouldn't have been necessary.

@Arc
No, Avering isn't more dangerous than Whiskers. He claims that he has the power to change into a survivor. If he chooses to do so now, he's on his own. If he's lynched or NK' ed, he has lost. If he stays with his faction, he can still win if he's lynched or NK' ed.
However, we don't know what the requirements for Whiskers are. For all we know, he's on the scum's side already.

I disagree, him saying he has the power to control the change means he can choose to change over to it whenever his faction seems likely to lose and force the loss. I find that more dangerous than someone who claims that they could win with the scum, but they have to be careful to make sure they can win with either side.

@Whiskers, Could you please make a case? Or give at least a basic reason? I don't like how Fuduzn has been playing, but I don't see scum written all over it, so I begin to fathom supporting this without at least some sort of information about it.

[Arc]

So, a big part of why you think I am scum is because you don't like my tone? What are you my mother?

I am sarcastic, and yes I sometimes border on being an asshole(and as a sidenote, please don't take anything too seriously or personal I may say in game, after all this is a game and I am just having fun. If I do offend you, I genuinely am sorry).

And the bridge to me being scum is........???

If this is in response to me, I do not find you scum, in fact i even said I found you town, but when you use personal insults i find it cause to reevaluate my read on you. if i find anything that would suggest you were scum it would stand on its own. If it seemed like i was trying to implicate you, i wasnt.

[Arc]

So, a big part of why you think I am scum is because you don't like my tone? What are you my mother?

I am sarcastic, and yes I sometimes border on being an asshole(and as a sidenote, please don't take anything too seriously or personal I may say in game, after all this is a game and I am just having fun. If I do offend you, I genuinely am sorry).

And the bridge to me being scum is........???

If this is in response to me, I do not find you scum, in fact i even said I found you town, but when you use personal insults i find it cause to reevaluate my read on you. if i find anything that would suggest you were scum it would stand on its own. If it seemed like i was trying to implicate you, i wasnt.

Fist off, my post was 100% directed at Whiskers.

Second, if you take personal insults into account when making reads.......then why have you not said anything about Whiskers calling me a moron?? I only gave him what he gave me, this relationship between you and Whiskers is becoming very transparent.

The type of insult used. he insulted you because he thought you were being an idiot, you insulted him for something outside the game. In mafia, the first type of insult is very common, but the second type makes me take another look at things.

Also when did I ever say I have a strong read on Whiskers? I'm still looking into him.

Also Whiskers, if you don't want to be lynched, why did you say that you prefer winning with any faction? That sounds a bit anti town to me.

[Arc]

So, 18 days for a day phase, and we started on the first. That means the deadline is in four days.

@all of the people on Fuduzn's wagon, why exactly are you there? I haven't seen a decent case from any of you. Can I get one please?

@Serrapaladin, What is your case on Zdenek? Do you have strong feelings about him being scum?

@PimHel, what are your reads aside from your negative feelings on Whisker's claim? You've been pushing that wagon pretty hard, is there anyone else you feel strongly about?

[Arc]

Looking at the Activity Overview, zDenek has Twenty posts. On the low side, but still in the middle; This isn't enough to zing him for inactivity, so let's move on.

First post that isn't one-line is

Nacho, why are you unvoting?
That was Arc making real-life excuses.

Arc, I'm not going to make a case against you just yet.

To put that into context, he was making real-life excuses in THIS post, saying he has a concussion when he wrote THIS post:

Eh, Emp is looking more town the more he posts. I was hoping to catch him on something definite.

UNVOTE:

I don't like TCS's reaction either, but with tells on so few of the players, I'm not comfortable jumping on the wagon just yet.

Zdenek, What makes me scum?

I'm not sure what's so bad about ^ that post to begin with, so I'm not sure why Arc is actually making the excuse. So in turn, Zdenek

kind of

attacking him for the real-world excuse

About Nothing

seems really... off.
It's after this post (zden's) that I vote Zden. Literally very next post.

I didn't mention the reason I seemingly switched 180 degrees between my standpoint of "lynch Empking" to, "eh, seems townish", I figured that was why Nacho Voted me, so I explained why I missed out on such an important part of this post, and then explained myself. Just to clarify the making of the excuse in the first place, I have no idea why Zdenek tried to jump on it and then stopped immediately after.

And, that seems alright with me. But I'll keep going, since the game HAS moved past that point.

Post 63 he mentions he "Wasn't trying to lynch [Arc]". Might be scum coaching, since between these posts of zdenek's, both TCS and FuDuzn (You know, the

other

major wagons of the Day) jumped on him. They're both worthy of note:
FuDuzn, specifically, votes Arc

because

of the concussion excuse.
TCS votes Arc-- it looks like based on a scumslip, but not sure-- then unvotes him in his next post

after

FuDuzn says "hey, I wasn't trying to lynch him!"

Post 123 (yeah, his next post is 60 later. ugh...) he talks to both of these players...
By this point I feel less like I'm proving Zden is scum and more like I'm showing connections between these three. Well, anyway, I don't like the post. He

does

follow up with FuDuzn on the bit about hit meta, I guess that's good, but a different player really took up that fight and pushed it (Arc, iirc). The comment on Empking's line is null. He, I dunno,

informs

TCS of what he said-- I'd assume TCS already knew-- it kind of looks like an accusation but isn't. I can't put my finger on what it is about that part, maybe someone else can explain it. LASTLY, the vote also bothers me. There doesn't seem to be any reason for it, just a kind of RVS on page 5, when we've been out of RVS for a while.

This isn't that strong of an argument on Zdenek, it is reaching to try to show a connection between him and the victims of two separate wagons. If you really feel strongly that there is a connection between Zd. and these two people with established wagons, and also see Zd as scum, why did you unvote one of the people you are trying to connect him to?

[Arc]

Well, I reread FUduzn, and I don't really see a good scum case against him, but I"m still getting a town read off of his posts, So I'm not going to vote for him.

I'm comfortable staying where I'm at. I think We've hit scum on TCS.

Serra, What worries you about lynching TCS in regards to Empking?

[Arc]

@Arc: Well, I'm trying to understand why Emp would out his various pieces of information so early, and none of the reasons I can think of are particularly pro-town. Drawing attention to TCS could mean he's a slow-playing lyncher or something like that.

THIS is why I want to kill him with fire, hot fire. But, I find the way TCS reacted to the entire ordeal suspicious as well, and he hasn't made it better, so I decided that TCS would be a good lynch as well, he has more support behind him, looks just as scummy with his defense, and I feel that the interaction between the two of them turned up at least one scum, so even if I'm wrong about TCS being town, I'll know to kindle the fire to throw Empking in tomorrow.

If he is a lyncher, he is doing a terrible job, he's been pushing the Fuduzn wagon.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Riningear
in case it didn't carry over. Rining has had some time since replacing in to give some good reads beyond his catch-up post (which was just 'catch-up'-y), but hasn't.

I'm too worried about Emp to lynch TCS and Fuduzn is

still

town. Zdenek is now Rining and I'd lynch him or FT.

Sorry about that, takes me a while to process things, but they get through. Plus aforementioned laptop issues and personal life

and Dragon Age II which I just got a sick bargain on

and stuff like that.

Zdenek did seem kind of scummy reading through his stuff, which sucks because now I gotta defend my sorry non-scum ass. [sigh]dammit[/sigh]

Here's a question:
Do you have any scumreads?

I'm still not good at getting solid scumreads, as this is only my second game, but Tammy, Arc and Empking are reading as FBI's Most Scummy to me, even though everyone seems to have jumped off the bandwagon for the last one. Oh well.

VOTE: Tammy

What makes a Tammy lynch good at this time? I really didn't like her predecessor, but I haven't seen anything she has said to make me think she deserves a scum read.

Also, is the only reason you find me scummy at the moment the way I talk? I haven't seen a reason behind your scumread on me aside from that.

If thats all it is, sorry, I talk like this all the time.

[Arc]

Also at Rin, I'm not really new to mafia at all, I just come from an entirely different meta than this place, so my playstyle is a good bit different. Yeah, I'm new here, but that doesn't mean anything in my eyes.

PEdit: Yeah, I wasn't feeling very good and really f'ed up the beginning of the day, then the arguement I got into with FuDuzn really didn't give me a very good option except to be defensive.

Also, you pointed at a post earlier where I said I didn't want to lynch Fuduzn because he was still reading town, I've been reading him as town all day, why did THAT post in particular catch your eye?

[Arc]

Also at Rin, I'm not really new to mafia at all, I just come from an entirely different meta than this place, so my playstyle is a good bit different. Yeah, I'm new here, but that doesn't mean anything in my eyes.

PEdit: Yeah, I wasn't feeling very good and really f'ed up the beginning of the day, then the arguement I got into with FuDuzn really didn't give me a very good option except to be defensive.

Also, you pointed at a post earlier where I said I didn't want to lynch Fuduzn because he was still reading town, I've been reading him as town all day, why did THAT post in particular catch your eye?

Well, I had to do a full read on you, right? And FD too. Just certain vote-pulls catch my eye depending on the situation, and yours did.

I just Iso'd myself, because I was curious, In the entire game, I stated I had a town read on Fuduzn ~5 times, and said I would relook at him twice, both times I came up with town results again, why did the latest time I said I found him town catch your eye? Wouldn't one of the times I was calling him town while he was pushing hard for a lynch on me be just as eye catching, I'm interested in your reasoning.

@Whiskers, I do believe he is talking about my post 57, if it helps until he gets a chance to respond to things.

[Arc]

Now I don't want Tammy in the game because after a freak out like that, she would be useless as a Vig or a Leashed SK, comeon, flipping your lid and claiming vig at L-2. Just....wow...Lets hope her replacement isn't going to flip their lid at nothing as well, though, honestly, I wouldn't want to replace into that.

I'm going for this.

UNVOTE: VOTE: EMPKING

Wait, I only count two votes on Tammy, making her L-5......Am I missing something here? If this is correct, please replace out, I don't want to deal with this every time you hit L-5.

Serra, you said you didn't like how Empking ran day one, we don't have a lot of time to do anything, Care to join me here? And before you ask me the same thing you just asked tammy, No, I don't, at this point I think they are different factions, and they have a bit of information about the other team. Either that or Empking is scum and TCS is useless and plans to play antitown all game. Either way they should both die.

Fud, how do you like the way Empking handled himself against a crazed Tammy, would you care to join me here? I know you are likely to think I'm scum for this, but I don't really care. I want to kill my scumread, this is a trait we share, amiright? We can do Zd tomorrow.

Whiskers, join me here.

Anyone else, You should really join me here, Empking just pushed our claimed Vigilante's buttons hard enough to get her to go on a two page crazy train, BEFORE anyone really had a chance to counterclaim, not that I think that it would happen, but you should at least slow down enough for someone to have a chance at a counterclaim. Not to mention the argument he was making with Tammy is not standing on any solid ground. Not that his opponent did anything to try to knock it over, it was mostly screaming.

Sir Jebus Sir, could we please have an extension of a few days?

[Arc]

Seriously Tammy, chill out. Have a beer and maybe take the weekend off from this game. That being the key word, this is all just a game, don't let it get under your skin.

That being said, in the game I referenced before that I played with her(leprachaun mafia) she acted just as bucknutty, if not moreso, and she was town. So I don't like the who what when where and why's about her claim, I think she just let her emotions get the best of her.

Arc, I would much prefer Rinin over Empking. After reading through ZD I believe his scumminess to be much more blatant.

I agree completely on Zd being far more blatantly scummy than Empking, But I want to push a lynch on Empking while these things are fresh, Rin hasn't really made herself look any better than Zd, so I think it'll be a bit of an easy lynch to go at her.

Right now I'm reading Rin and Emp as a scumteam, with TCS as an antitown 3rd party.

[Arc]

No, I asked for a DL extension because I didn't think our largely inactive town would be around soon enough to lynch anyone.

I'll vote Rin if there is more support for that wagon, but I really want Empking dead before the next sun rises, I don't want him to slip out of this because we put too much time inbetween his recent actions and a wagon on him, too much time for support on wagons like Whiskers or the avering which have claimed survivor like roles to be formed because of anti town excuses.

[Arc]

Do you really feel that starting a large argument with a claimed Vig, arguing that it is a fake claim before you even allow anyone to offer up a counterclaim, not to be scummy? He went through no verification process, gave no method of trying to confirm or deny the claim, but instantly attacked the claimed vigilante? This just feels awful.

Why would Town-Emp attack a claimed vigilante without trying to confirm the claim, or offering someone else the chance to prove that the claim is false?

[Arc]

I'll also say, Tammy, that the whole counter-claiming thing isn't on you-- I'm saying Arc shouldn't have suggested it, that

Arc

is trying to draw out more power roles. It has nothing to do with you, really.

I was more arguing that he should prove tammy wasnt the vig and not scream to get her lynched before we actually get a chance to prove it or not.

In this small of a game, i assume that we only have one real vigilante. We could have a sk or something but two vigs is pretty unlikely.

A counterclaim is the fastest way to call bs on the situation, not the best but the fastest. Empking jumping on a claimed vig without trying to prove bs is what i was arguing about.

Also tammy, my rude comment towards you was mainly an annoyance of getting up and first thing in the morning, on a rather busy morning and i had to read to and respond to about two pages of someone trolling you and you doing the equivalent of hollering like a child. I'm sorry if I offended you with that.

[Arc]

Rin, I find it interesting that you were sheeping Empking in the argument he had with tammy, then as soon as I made an appeal to the masses, you turned around and voted to lynch him. Also, your predecessor, while not appearing that scummy himself, triggered flags on several people, and then you come along and not vote with your reads, and sheeping several people you state are scum(myself and the afformentioned empking).

Even with this said, I really want Emp dead, really really want Emp dead. But Rin looks like a really sharp #2.

Nacho, I'll trust you a bit if you explain your claim a little more, If you are targeted by a player, you switch to their alignment? So, if Tammy shoots you, do you counter it and switch to her alignment, or do you die? Does it have to be a kill? seems like an interesting role, but I'd like for you not to die if we can help it.

[Arc]

I'm assuming he will survive, and be told about the alignment change, but he was vague on it, so I'm unsure if he doesn't know, or just didn't mention it because that is the natural assumption.

[Arc]

Nacho, does it list any specifications on the kill? Or does it just say that if you are targeted by a kill you change alignment?

[Arc]

Cool, That allows me to do this.

I claim Dead Philosopher(actual philosopher removed for the protection of the involved), I am a 1-Shot Dayvig who can kill God, and Only God. If I actually hit God with my shot, I win the game. Secondary win condition is standard town win condition.

Now, I really want town to win this, and I'm guessing God will be a town role, so I don't really want to try and actually hit him, so I'm gonna target you with my kill so the claimed vig can actually kill someone tonight. I believe Tammy's claim, even though I am also a vig, because I do not believe I can actually kill any scum with my shot. Also, if this works, We get a two verified town, and a vig that can actually shoot tonight.

Nachomamma8(GOD) is Dead

[Arc]

Oh, forgot about this as well.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: RIN

Nacho and FT, neither of you unvoted earlier, just to let you know.

[Arc]

Oh good my personal objective is dead. I'm out so this is all I have time to say.

Explain?

[Arc]

Well, I don't know what that means in regards to who I was SUPPOSED to shoot, but whatever. I was only one shot.

[Arc]

I also had to just figure out who God was. I assume Nacho isn't dead since he didn't address it, and therefore isn't God, so I lied, personal wingoal still going.

I just have to keep him alive. That's all.

You get some type of power to keep him alive?

Also, if I wasn't clear, I was shooting at Nacho to make him town, so our claimed Vig could actually shoot something tonight, I did this because I thought God would likely be a town role.

[Arc]

I also had to just figure out who God was. I assume Nacho isn't dead since he didn't address it, and therefore isn't God, so I lied, personal wingoal still going.

I just have to keep him alive. That's all.

You get some type of power to keep him alive?

Also, if I wasn't clear, I was shooting at Nacho to make him town, so our claimed Vig could actually shoot something tonight, I did this because I thought God would likely be a town role.

Note, This is me being curious if he has a power that specifically targets god like mine does. Rin, don't answer this question, I asked because I was curious, not because I want you to full claim at this moment.

[Arc]

When I asked how my shot worked, Jebus said that it didn't end the day but it did trigger a mod scene. So, that'll probably show up the next time he gets on.

I basically wasted my shot to turn Nacho into town, because I'd rather have a town win in this game than not, and God sounds like a town role. Since my shot can ONLY kill god, I'd rather use it to trust nacho than use it to kill a probable townie.

[Arc]

I suggest we don't lynch until he gets on a least, so we can try to use Tammy's shot for the best this night.

[Arc]

Why aren't you voting for Rinin?

Because don't feel I can put my vote on him without looking/being scummy, and because the sooner this Day ends, the sooner I get

shot.

I basically wasted my shot to turn Nacho into town,

...Why?

I feel like Tammy is likely to be a real vigilante, and I didn't want her to shoot nacho to turn him into town when I can do it and allow her to use her shot at night.

because I'd rather have a town win in this game than not,

WHY!? What the hell is it with everybody and wanting to be town? Do you think it's just more likely that Town will win? Do you figure that if you pick the side with more people (probably) on it, they'll like you more and not want to lynch you?? Like, really, I don't get the obsession with being town. If you're a 3rd party or unaligned, why do you want to become town as opposed to something else? If "God" seems like a town role to you, who cares? Why don't you want to kill it and leave the game with a win, townies-be-damned?

No, I just find the game more fun to pick a side unless I'm a side all on my own. As it was, I just had a win condition that may or may not prove harmful to my other wincondition, and I'd rather use my power to get a good player that will be active on my side than possibly screw up the town win condiition, as I find that type of win condition to be more fun in the first place.

and God sounds like a town role.

Yes, because in a bastardmod game, roles are always the alignment you'd first think they belong to-- like Patrick Bateman and Adolf Hitler being town.

Who claimed Hitler? Are you Hitler? And I thought about that as well, God being on the scum team could make sense, God being unaligned could make sense, but hounding people for roleclaims is going to be playing against my other win condition, and while I can probably figure it out, I'd rather push for my standard win condition to attempt to make my chance at winning the greatest. If God is scum, then I'm still going to get him killed. I just won't win immediately for it.

Also, There is a possibility that God isn't even in the game, I really doubt it, but it is possible.

Since my shot can ONLY kill god, I'd rather use it to trust nacho than use it to kill a probable townie.

Then IMO, you're a fool, or at least you're not confident in your abilities to sus out God. [/quote]Too bad. Deal with it. :trollface:

Also: As Empking said-- that calls Tammy's claim further into question, though not much since, like I already said,

literally everyone could be a vig, it's a fucking theme game you idiots

.

Not really, I can only kill one player in the entire game, which makes me a rather lacking vigilante, I can easily see both roles fitting in a balanced setup.

@Tammy, Jebus may not let my role interact with his role the same way a standard kill would, considering my role is only supposed to kill god, it may not trigger his role. I hope it doesn't work that way, but it might.

[Arc]

One of my quotes are off in that post, I apologise.

[Arc]

Eh, sorry guys, I've been really busy lately, helping a friend move and junk.

Anyway, I'm still perfectly find with the TCS, Emp, Rin trifecta of scum dying today.

Though, the past few pages hasn't given me much information to change my reads.

[Arc]

Oh wow, that was short.

FT's breadcrumb stuff is interesting.
I wonder if the philosophers have names or if they are just "philosopher". Arc? Riningear? Would either of be willing to tell me that?

I Don't remember Rin claiming a philosopher, or anything really for that matter. My character IS a philosopher, one I'm rather familiar with actually, but which specific philosopher I am is currently witheld information.

Also, I really don't like the vote reset, with FT claiming responsibility directly afterwards. Lurker doesn't necessarily mean scum.

FT, Which god is town? From the way you said A God is town, that statement seems to implicate that there is a town god and another god that isn't necessarily town. You used a singular instead of a definitive, which indicates that there are multiple, as this is also reflected in my role pm, I take this as suspicion confirmed. I assumed that with my character name we were going for something along the lines of a christian god, THE god.

If this leads to where I think it does.

Vote: Rin.

Her claim is fake.

[Arc]

Oh wow, that was short.

FT's breadcrumb stuff is interesting.
I wonder if the philosophers have names or if they are just "philosopher". Arc? Riningear? Would either of be willing to tell me that?

I Don't remember Rin claiming a philosopher, or anything really for that matter. My character IS a philosopher, one I'm rather familiar with actually, but which specific philosopher I am is currently witheld information.

Also, I really don't like the vote reset, with FT claiming responsibility directly afterwards. Lurker doesn't necessarily mean scum.

FT, Which god is town? From the way you said A God is town, that statement seems to implicate that there is a town god and another god that isn't necessarily town. You used a singular instead of a definitive, which indicates that there are multiple, as this is also reflected in my role pm, I take this as suspicion confirmed. I assumed that with my character name we were going for something along the lines of a christian god, THE god.

If this leads to where I think it does.

Vote: Rin.

Her claim is fake.

Oh, excuse me.
VOTE: Rin

[Arc]

No Rinin, FT said that 'a' God is town, as in there are multiple God's. At least that is how I read it(paganism ftw).

Also Arc, pretty obvious what philosopher you are(won't state the obvious though).

I don't see how, I could name a couple that would fit with the information I've given so far, and a couple more if you strecth their philosophy just a tiny bit.

Even so, you just may be right. lol.

Oh wow, that was short.

FT's breadcrumb stuff is interesting.
I wonder if the philosophers have names or if they are just "philosopher". Arc? Riningear? Would either of be willing to tell me that?

I Don't remember Rin claiming a philosopher, or anything really for that matter. My character IS a philosopher, one I'm rather familiar with actually, but which specific philosopher I am is currently witheld information.

Also, I really don't like the vote reset, with FT claiming responsibility directly afterwards. Lurker doesn't necessarily mean scum.

FT, Which god is town? From the way you said A God is town, that statement seems to implicate that there is a town god and another god that isn't necessarily town. You used a singular instead of a definitive, which indicates that there are multiple, as this is also reflected in my role pm, I take this as suspicion confirmed. I assumed that with my character name we were going for something along the lines of a christian god, THE god.

If this leads to where I think it does.

Vote: Rin.

Her claim is fake.

How can my claim be fake? It's fully possible that multiple people have to target the same person and have their own wincons regarding their end-of-game status. Mine happens to be "find and defend God," possibly because of the existence of your role.

Unfortunately for you, you have already outed the fact that your name is relevant to a well-known figure in Philosophy, and your exact role title has been outed, and therefore there is a remote chance that someone is plotting your death as we speak.

In addition.

I just asked Jebus out of curiosity, and he said that scum can have

any

role or wincon that he feels like giving them.

Now, your role, you claim as Philosopher, is that you're supposed to kill God. If God is a town player given FT's fairly-confident claims, then I claim that you are ridiculously anti-town, or possibly scum.

I have to re-read the lot of you though now that I'm getting these sudden horribly-last-minute realizations.

I flat out said I didn't want to shoot god because I'd rather the town win and I think he is town. For the love of christ, do you listen to what I say?

Also, your claim is fake because You are trying to protect The god, now that FT has specifically said that A god is town, it implies multiple things, one is that there are more than one god, which puts stress on your claim, as you insist that it is THE god, FT's claim also implies that not all gods are town. Now if these things are true, it puts serious stress on your claim.

I believe the wording he used is correct, and believe his claim, as looking back into my role pm, Jebus used the same wording, I thought nothing of it because the nature of philosophy at the time that the philosopher I am and several other philosophers worked in, they stressed on a singular god, so I assumed we were looking for something along the lines of "THE god". Your claim if there are multiple gods means that either you have extra information you are lying about, which means you are probably scum, or that your claim is fake.

Sorry, but I want to see you hang today.

Tammy should totally shoot TCS though.

FT, ask Jebus if the intent of your role was to have you act on your information or communicate it to everyone else. I have an idea I want to try but I don't want it to be a loophole, I just want it to be creative.

I'm working along these lines.

[Arc]

Votecount 1.30

FourTrouble (2) - Empking, The Central Scrutinizer
Riningear (2) - Arc, Serrapaladin
The Central Scrutinizer (2) - Tammy, Nachomamma8

Not Voting (6) - FuDuzn, The Avering, Whiskers, PimHel, Riningear, FourTrouble

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to lynch.

---

Hey here's an angle I've been kicking around by myself for a while

What if Arc and FT are scum
FT claims his thingy
Arc adjusts his claim to fit with FT's
Riningear stands out for having something different.
Also would mean Nachomamma has been scum-recruited.

Arc is the pivotal player in all of these things.



Also have been wondering if Philosopher is a special class, a particular flavour of scum. Because we sure seem to have a lot of them, but then we know that TCS's role, Tammy's role, and my role, are NOT philosophers.

Though, I don't remember anyone else claiming to be a philosopher, only me, everyone else just roleclaimed, they didn't character claim at all. Way to try to pin a entire group of players together for no disernable reason.

Just because people claim to have roles with similar wincons, doesn't mean we share anything via character. For example, Rining could be the pope, given that her wincon is to protect god, that would be something that the pope would want to do?

Stop trying to put in false associations for no reason.

UNVOTE: VOTE: WHISKERS

I'm tired of you misrepping people, and playing antitown all day. You are either scum, or you need to die, Rin needs to die too, but I only have one vote, unfortunately.

[Arc]

Isn't deadline today?
So even though I'd support it, a Whiskers lynch won't happen, Arc

I know. I kinda doubt any lynch is going to happen today.

So far I see a scum read on rin, a scum read on TCS with a leaning suspicion on Empking, And an antitown read on Whiskers.

So, I guess I should go back to my actual scum reads, but I really hate playing with antitown.

Unvote:
Vote: TCS

I'm waffling between my scum reads at the moment.

[Arc]

My Pm box is declaring itself empty, so apparently I survived last night. neato.

[Arc]

I have been really busy but I'm trying to catch up, I haven't liked anything that whiskers has said today, and claiming his first win condition is explicitly anti town now with his previous statement that he would like to win using that win condition over a standard condition, while insulting me when I decided to do otherwise strikes me as this is the time to get rid of him.

Also, saying that his second win condition is no longer viable when he said earlier it was a standard town win condition is incredibly suspicious.

VOTE: Whiskers

[Arc]

I just want to survive long enough to have a shot at my third wincon, but that really depends on if the Town minds having a layabout living in their house.
I am a schizophrenic townie, I get powers at the start of each Day, maybe at random? My third wincon in based on that. Today I have a modified roleblocking power, the use of which I have detailed (or tried to) above.

Then why don't you mind if your powers are leashed?

I don't understand the question.

I'll gladly be put on a leash, at least until I've figured out if I can still win or not. At such time as I realize I can no-longer win, I will stop cooperating.

If I complete my tertiary wincon

(or or I gain some new wincon and complete it),

I will gracefully allow you to lynch me

, and I will exit the game.

Huh?

Are you willing to be leashed or not?

I don't buy Whiskers' claiming in the bolded above either (if you complete your wincon you would leave the game) but I also don't buy Tammy-as-vig. Happy for either to be lynched.

Unvote

Actually one other thing, I need to be the hammer on any lynches from here on out.

All of Day one Whiskers has ben hollering at people who claim to want to win as town instead of their extra win condition, and has really pushed wanting to win with that win condition, instead of the claimed "second" win condition that was straight up a town win condition. Now, he has stated that his primary win condition can no longer win with the town, and he no longer has access to his second win condition. Now, I don't believe him when suddenly he goes, "I want to help the town win now and not win with scum."

Suddenly he has become a liability, and should IMO be removed from the game if we want a town victory.

[Arc]

The past few days I've really wanted to post, but haven't really seen anything worth posting over. Just a giant stream of argumentative text that doesn't really accomplish anything for anyone.

I'm sorry if I'm not contributing anything today, It is just hard to get up motivation when everything you are going to say is gonna blocked out by pages of pointless yelling.

[Arc]

@Serrapaladin, Yeah, I'm beginning to think that that claim is at least partially fake on Rin's part, though I'm not sure how much information FT had about his role.

The reason I think Rin's claim is fake was mentioned back on day one, When I reread my claim, it didn't say "You win if your shot hits God", it was if your shot hit

A

God. FT mentioned something similar when he was hinting that he knew info about god's existence, also, with the odd name of his character, I can believe that my suspicions are true and there is more than one god in this game.

Also, I sent Jebus a cheeky response when I got my Role Pm saying that all I would have to do is to claim that he was dead to win, but I honestly don't think he is the type of moderator that would self insert himself into the game. So I didn't try it, I assume it would have gotten me modkilled or something for some reason.

My guess is that there was likely one god that was town, which we offed, and one that is in control of the mafia, and the kill would be linked to him.

It would explain why it stated that TCS was frozen to death, though, it makes me question why they would shoot at him instead of somebody else considering how Tammy wanted him dead for the majority of Day one.

We'll have to see how things go on future nights to really know.

[Arc]

So we have two proven day vigs, both with extremely specific kill target and limited shots....

The multipage argument that stole all the interest I had in this game isn't as important now, I have new interest.

I knew that would happen again.

So, Avering, interesting power you have there....

[Arc]

This game is going nowhere because of TheAvering's ploy.

From Day one, I suspected Empking, and Empking has been continuing to act the same way as on day one, overly aggressive and tunneling towards a player that is very likely a town power role.

Rin has been acting less scummy, but Zd didn't come out looking too hot before he left the game, and she didn't handle day one very well at all, makes her look scummy. Also, Her claim seems unlikely if there are multiple gods in the game, which appears to be the case. I would really like for her to die this day. This is of course if there isn't some type of mafia group led by a god and her win condition is to protect the leader of that faction. My current working theory on this game is as such.

Going on that train of thought, Her little outburst when I shot at Nacho makes him look a bit bad, but I doubt it is any sort of scum slip, as such a god would have died to my shot, and any other gods in the game would likely be given the restriction that FT was given that he couldn't actually say that he was a god.

UNVOTE: VOTE: RIN

[Arc]

Stating it better, I think Rin counts as scum, but doesn't have a scum win condition, or any secondary win condition. If the leader of the scum dies, I believe she will lose with little chance for winning.

[Arc]

The majority of the people on that wagon suspected him from at least midday, we just didn't have a reason to push for him because of the possibility of him being third party.

Also, Empking, this post in particular implies two Nightkills were used on him.

To clarify, flips are bolded and color-coded.

Everyone gathered around the center. Everyone was still here! But something wasn't right. Everyone turned to one man, who was fading fast. He had tears in his eyes; clearly traumatized. It was too late for him to drink his own piss. Hypothermia had already set in. Also a gunshot wound.

The Central Scrutinizer, aka Bear Grilles the Modified Survivor, died of hypothermia and a gunshot wound Night 1.

He fell to the ground and faded to nothing...

It is now Day 2. The deadline will be posted shortly. With 10 alive, it takes 6 to lynch.

Now, The fact that he died of both Hypothermia and a gunshot wound implies two nightkills, both at the same target. also, Tammy was a heavy supporter to lynching TCS, and since multiple people asked her not to shoot whiskers, jumping over to a heavy scum read is not an illogical thing to do.

Now, if you really want to support lynching tammy, put it off for a day, if two nightkills don't happen tomorrow, it is likely that Tammy is lying. If you continue pushing it today, I will see you as scum intentionally trying to get us to mislynch a power role. Which honestly, I think you are anyway, but Rin looks far more suspicious.

Also, another thing in favor of the multiple god thing, is that FT was bulletproof, which implies that I wouldn't have been able to kill him with my shot.

[Arc]

I am not trying to kill you because Your role is the opposite of mine, I was a one shot power, and I can only achieve a personal win if my shot hits god, so you trying to protect god means absolutely nothing to me. And in reality, it would mean nothing before because I was a dayvig and my power could be used spontaneously, meaning as long as I lived, I would be able to wait for the right opportunity.

I am trying to kill you because you are acting scummy, and I see a definite scenario where it could make sense that you would be scum.

Multiple gods could make sense based on the ambiguity of my role PM, and the fact that as of now, the only viable target I could have aimed at is bulletproof, which would likely stop my daykill from working. Now, I don't see Jebus doing this in a game without putting in another god for me to actually be able to kill.

Your wingoal adds nearly 0 actual motive in my pushing your lynch, I'm bringing this up because I'm trying to figure out how this game works..

[Arc]

I believe that you may not only be anti-town, but scum as well, because someone who wants town-God

and

their protectors dead can only be bad news or worse.

Now this is a stupid argument, the only TOWN god we know of was bulletproof, which I do believe would have blocked my shot. So I clearly am not aiming at killing him, and I'm working under the theory that you are scum, so I don't want the protector of a town god dead, I want a possible scum protector of a alignment unclear possible god dead.

Also, may I remind you that my role was one shot? Since I've already used it, on a non-god suspect, I no longer care about my personal win goal, I'm playing completely under a town win condition. This means I'm just trying to kill scum.

Back when I used my shot, I said I was afraid my first win condition would be detrimental towards my second win condition, which I care about more because I find town/scum wins far more fun than personal wins. So I used it to try and convert nacho into town, if his claim worked the way he said it did.

[Arc]

For all we know,

all

of any potential "god"-roles are town.

Like, we have literally no information besides FT's flip. I'm fine with you guys lynching him for being scummy-- that's perfectly all right. But it makes me really uncomfortable to see you pushing on him based on

pure speculation

. Not to chainsaw defend, but attacking someone using

pure speculation

makes me wonder if Arc, Nacho, aren't scum.

>.>
Whiskers.
Am I calling Riningear scum?

Uhh... someone was. Maybe Arc, but I can't be assed to check.

Nah, I'm trying to lynch Rin because she appears to be scum, the speculation is unrelated to me trying to off her, and is entirely to figure out how this game works.

I can comprehend two separate trains of thought at the same time, you know?

[Arc]

Actually, I never said that the scum's kill has to do with hypothermia, just that a second kill flavor on the kill suggests another faction.

Perhaps the scum team has a kill that's flavor changes depending on the person, it would make sense if there was another god running around this game. also, the specifics on this dimension the game is supposed to be taking place in hasn't been explained, it could be that the scum team uses it to kill people.

There are a variety of reasons Hypothermia could have been a valid flavor for a kill without a magical hypothermia demon wandering around.

I believe the claim but if we don't get two night kills soon, I'll likely change my tune.

[Arc]

I wasn't lying at all about my role except the fact that I actually had two shots. I was using the nacho incident as a gambit to find an actual god, while clearing my name and allowing me to remain mostly safe.