Mini 1467 - Arkham Horror Smalltown II - Game Over

[DTMaster]

Its ok. I was gonna draft the nun but will do this instead for Wolf :p

Draft: Vincent Lee, the Doctor (Kill Delayer)

[DTMaster]

Yes. To speed the process along.

[DTMaster]

Day CPR: Inte

because N0 results sez so (a la Kayne)

Now with the JeremyLu issue: straight up null tell. V/LA for a week in an D1 bandwagon vote is not scummy. It's the first vote. If we lynch wagon in the next two pages we have derp town (the game is lost anways) or scum wagons (then the people who speedly hopped on the wagon late in the game are ez scum). Kayne gets some early town brownies for recognizing this. PhD gets a pass for the first one on the wagon. Symphony gives me scum brownies for sheeping to pHD but early agreements is a small start. Togee is gets bonus townie cookies in my eyes since he's empathetic with Jeremy's V/LA.

Vote Symphony

.

[DTMaster]

Oops sorry guys, Canada Day festivities made me preoccupied. ANY WAYS DTMANALYSIS using a stream of consciousness style is now ago:

@Symphony
1. 63: Wrong for two reasons: 1. This is day 1 not lylo. The state of the game requires us to generate information through reads. A day 1 vote on someone is good. A vote and a V/LA in all intent and purposes should not lead to a speed wagon lynch as outlined in my first post. 2. Being V/LA due to other circumstances is blaming someone for his personal life from playing the game. You are

blaming someone's outside circumstances for "scummy behaviour"

. If Jeremylu

faked V/LA by pretending to be inactive here but active else where then this is scummy and your argument is valid

. A quick background search on his activity confirms his V/LA status AND there is a "gasp" an ongoing game post confirming this status.

Jeremy Lu is null. Symphony gains scummy points for blaming vote V/LA as a reason for Jeremy to be scummy.

@Hito
1. Town points for trying to break the game via roles.

@LLD
1. Krazy LLD is generating reads off Tooge gains town points in my books. Interested in where this is going.
2. 79: I commented above but specifically I think Symphony is giving a silly reason. Probably a Freudian mental slip of Symphony's scumminess since "leaving a vote on town" so oh so scary D1. (Read with sarcasm).

@Tooge
1 85: Just curious about the Inte read. Also a little self note since we have parallel thinking on separate people (i.e. Symphony and pHDScar)

@Wolf
1. At first I thought it was possible that Sister Mary could be aligned with scum since alignments were given after our drafts - but I read the sample PM of Sister Mary. Whhhuuue. LLD has a point, prease do something more.

@Shaboo
1. Found a disconnect. Do an Iso read of Shaboo Here at 93 and then 118. There's an odd disconnect when he agrees with Tooge (with "^THIS") on the pHD scum case and a null read right after. Contradictory? Seems like it. Context shows Tooge (see my point above) is making a scum case against pHD, when Shaboo wafted between pHD-scum to pHD-null read. There's no flow. Sounds like a slip. Working theory of pHD-Shaboo-Symphony team right now or at least a pHD-Shaboolite team.

@Kayne
1. You are so frustrating to read. Blaahrhghsdjksjdsjfk stupid sarcasm but input of reads (always problematic, makes me want to CPR people to death). However I find the response between LLD/Kayne and the whole policy lynch thing to be someone who snapped back with a snarky comment over an actual driving case to force a policy lynch on BB. It's anti-town, but with frustrating people, policy lynches threats are thrown out by all factions back in my day and town had it rough.

Have to go for lab work. Self note read up last bit of page 6/page7. Current streamed reads.

[DTMaster]

@BB WHOA. Did BB say Dry-fit was scum with a vote on me? Sorry interjection while I make more reads. Hydra communicate, is this a Dry-fit case or a DTM case you want to push.

Second that Mr. Rogers.

We really don't care when scum try to vote us because they know they're up next.

Symph is town, move your vote to a better place like ours is Dry-Fit.

~The Wiggles~

[DTMaster]

@ Toogee
1. Hey so Kayne is anti-town town in this case?. Because the last time I checked anti-town and scummy behaviour are subtlety different concepts. Elaborate because you give more reason for me to doubt the player of Kayne over his alignment in terms of judgement.

And anti-town townie reads are still town reads.

Edit: NVM. You elaborated later on. Kayne-theory discussion is noise and more scummy for that rather than stating the obvious that scum players would tend to be more perceptive of details (one would expect). Kayne's retarded statement is anti-town - not scummy since that is not a "NO U"

NO U implies Kayne is pushing back on a BB case because an iso read shows that Kayne thinks the BB slot/hydra are stupid players and are anti town (which is a consistent read). Snapping back with a "policy lynch" statement is not the same as

pushing for a policy lynch

. So I respectively disagree.

@Sajin
Holy shit noise issues with the Hito question. I'm seeing Sajin as scummier now

mainly because you know - alignments were given AFTER ROLES

.

Read the god damn rules Sajin

2. Before alignment is determined, the player list will be randomized and the roles will be drafted in that order. Starting with the first player and moving down, each player will have 24 hours to choose an as-yet-unpicked role. If someone fails to choose within the 24 hours, they may still choose at any time, but the draft will continue and other players may pick in the meantime.
3. After everyone has chosen a role, alignments will be randomly distributed, with the exception of the player who chose Sister Mary (if any), who is guaranteed to be Town. The alignment distribution will be 9:3:1.

Scum points for role-alignment speculation when page 1 rules tell us how roles and alignments were dealt with separately and RANDOMLY. This is blatant misdirection to lynch people based on roles over alignment (i.e. through posts)

@Hito
1. Read the first post. You get a pass for the idiotic role speculation since you replaced in but god damn know a mis direction post when you see it.

Unvote, Vote Sajin

Quote tag fixed.

[DTMaster]

Oops, mod, can you edit my quote box where I quoted the almighty mod and his rule showing us how alignment was determined. Thanks.

[DTMaster]

Whoops. Sorry brain fart when I read it the first time. I speed read the tiebreaker and POE part too fast. Either way, yes I agree we have roles that are more anti-town than others but again it's independent to the alignments. Sajin's questioning reads as a misdirection attempt still despite the official rules saying so.

Edit
@BB
1. Ok clarifying about the Dry-fit makes more sense now with a read.
2. Lol k on the case. I can't defend against a scum accusation without any backing so let the big boys scum hunt while you do that.

[DTMaster]

@pHD
1. Not quite a slip. Reread BB. The timing is right (after Dry-fit votes Symph) and reads as a multi post stream of concisousness post. See the triple post and comments - BB's clarification is actually solid with context looked at.

[DTMaster]

@Wolf
1. Lol I have good points but walls are hard. However I won't apologize for commenting on what I want to comment on since I clearly lay out my thought process. :deal with it:

2. I find it odd you say I'm being reasonable but if you actually have been reading I'm making a Sajin case right now about his questioning about anti town roles as alignment. You have a town read on him. But I'm reasonable. Elaborate.
I should be wrong here but some how you have contrary opinions about my line of thoughts.

If you weren't confirmed Id vote you so I'm curious to the town read.

[DTMaster]

@Wolf
1. Wat. Why Sajin town? It's a town read on your end, why aren't you discouraging me from attacking a town read?

@Symphony
1. This post here. You ignored it. Why?

@LLD
1. Dude why are you making an age argument for a Symphony meta read. A 2 month old account has nothing to do with folding under pressure. My first game (under 2 months) I super tunneled an anti-town townie and convinced the IC to not lynch the scum (effectively making scum win in my first game as townie). Why are you posting fluff? You're better than this. LLD is up for wildcard mastermind scum (a la principle of the IC scum - questioning with fluff, but not catching scum with actions).

@Shaboo
1. Answer my post here for reference. Why did you agree with Tooge on a scum read on pHD when right after you called him null for wanting a replacement on the Jeremylu slot. Considering you had time to post an emoticon but

not respond to my attack on you

.

Unvote, Vote Shaboo

.

@Sajin
Do not ignore my questions - but you haven't posted yet. This serves as a reminder to refer back to this post.

Revising my original read on pHD. He's been asking why but no one has been answering. Null-frustrated townie read.

[DTMaster]

On my phone so can't quote or link but

@Sajin
1. Lol. You assume you know the draft rules? You went on Jeremylu over an early role vote. That's fine, it was page 2 and there's nothin to go over. But then you question the replacee

Hito

if he thought roles and alignments were related and if we should lynch based on that. Lol no that's terrible. That's trying to insert theory discussion about lynching based on scum PR setup when we haw mod rules saying the scum team is randomly made after the draft.

Of course Jeremy had his alignment when he voted - cause Day 1 started. Then you seriously thought you can generate information on Jeremylu by questioning a replacement player on why his predecessor would seriously vote the way he did D1? Thanks for the admission.

You're not scum hunting - this is a fake.

2 About Wolf, lol. No questioning wolf is legitimate. Do you know why? There are two genreral things you want to do in the day. You want to

scum hunt to find the pesky scums

and you want to

town hunt to have strong town reads to narrow down your scum suspects

.

Read my Wolf questioning. He has a town read on you. He says he can agree with me. I have a scum read on you. Contradiction. If Wolf really values his town read I want his input to why. If it convinces me I'll look elsewhere. If it doesnt well
I'll still be pushing a case on you.

I like it how you find me questioning Wolf to be scummy because it directly relates to you. He's confirmed town. Does that give him a free pass for bad play? No. I want more info in his reasons. Using his confirmed status as a deterrent from questioning is a piss poor implication you're drawing.

The situation is ripe. I want Sajin on a pike. The blood gods of Hyrule demand it.

Unvote, Vote Sajin

[DTMaster]

Hey LLD. Two month me would not fit that argument. Hito said that Symphony bent her vote to pressure

as town in 192

which is a meta call. I get not enough time has passed to grow to the usual meta but it's not a get out of free card to bad play and you press them on it.

If you want my rope then

fucking force a lynch wagon on me

.

[DTMaster]

Oh wait you asked your question after Hito did his read.

Thought it was before 192 but you posted I think at 201.

[DTMaster]

I was about to write a post about how you posted earlier and injected the idea for Hito to respond. But upon quoting and rexamining the post numbers says I read the posts out of order. Oops!

However Hito dug up the original meta read which is a strong town tell. You're enigmatic but there are ways to discern more with more time. Symphony the topic at hand can be discerned with other means - but is still not a town read for me. The rush town call do less to convince me than Hito's change in position as there is attempts made to make an alignment check .

[DTMaster]

@BB
1. Lol. They can't be both scum? They are both scummy in my books and I've been consistent in that. Just like you think pHD and myself are scum. Should I call you on flip flopping onto pHD from me as a scummy behaviour? No. You think both of us are scum. Grow some fucking balls and push a lynch case on me rather than wait for momentum to keep your vote on me. If you refuse to do that then I find that just plain scummy that you went for an easier read since there is momentum on pHD rather than trying to lynch me.

@Symphony
1. Why would you suspect Jermeylu of faking his V/LA? Does he have a track record of it? Have you encountered this in other games?

@Shaboo

@Shaboo
1. Answer my post here for reference. Why did you agree with Tooge on a scum read on pHD when right after you called him null for wanting a replacement on the Jeremylu slot. Considering you had time to post an emoticon but

not respond to my attack on you

.

Read above. Stop ignoring my questions.

[DTMaster]

Suspect BB-Shaboo-Sajin. Why? BB discredits both Sajin-scum and Shaboo-scum by saying it's bad to have multiple scum suspects.

Upon this I've reviewed all three iso reads and found the following:
1. All three players had not commented on each other's alignment.
2. Sajin comments on BB saying the hydras are amusing - fluff early posting
3. BB RVS votes Sajin early and comments that Sajin has meta knowledge of the player should he reveals the heads.
4. Shaboo has not commented on anything with these three players

As of page 10 these three players have

literally not interacted with each other in a meaningful way this game over 6 real life days in this game

. Interesting that no reads have been offered by these three, on these three.

Since I've made scum cases upon 2/3 of this list I'm waiting for a response from Sajin (who hasn't posted) and Shaboo (who has posted but nothing related to my questions). This is an interesting observation to note since I think

BB just scum slipped up something by telling me that my Sajin and my Shaboo case are mutually exclusive and is scummy from advancing both cases

.

[DTMaster]

@pHD
Post 162 was the original attack

@Shaboo
1. Found a disconnect. Do an Iso read of Shaboo Here at 93 and then 118. There's an odd disconnect when he agrees with Tooge (with "^THIS") on the pHD scum case and a null read right after. Contradictory? Seems like it. Context shows Tooge (see my point above) is making a scum case against pHD, when Shaboo wafted between pHD-scum to pHD-null read. There's no flow. Sounds like a slip. Working theory of pHD-Shaboo-Symphony team right now or at least a pHD-Shaboolite team.

Originally working with a Shaboo early bussing pHD scum idea but Shaboo had contradictory posts which made him scummy. Subsequent attacks have been on him ignoring me.

@BB
1. Lol no it's not. Read 162 where I attacked Shaboo. Vote switching weirdness would imply I did not have a background to vote him, but I did. 169 is when I focused on Sajin since I was more interested in that case. 224 I went back to Shaboo for ignoring 162. 227 when I went back to Sajin after disagreeing with a post he made and I'm waiting on a response. Explain the weirdness BB

2. Lol. Town hunting is part of the game as scum hunting (i.e. reduction of scum-suspects).

3. Mudslinging? You mean saying that you're not pushing a case on me to lynch (i.e attempting to convince the town on a DTM-scum lynch) is mudslinging? Pu-leaze. However upon a reread a consistent pHD-scum attack has been noted so my note that you've settled on pHD has been misguided. Timing is suspect with the minor momentum, but the history doesn't lie actually.

[DTMaster]

@Wolf
Entertain me. I want a Sajin or a Shaboo lynch and I'm fighting for their ropeiness. I can deal with BB for now with a reread showing a consistent pHD attack so the original momentum argument was null - but I want either roped now.

[DTMaster]

blahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. This is getting quite silly now, this exchange

RWall

Wolf.

[DTMaster]

@Wolf
Tooge? First he's V/LA for the holidays. Secondly he's focusing on pHD/Kayne/Hito for a while because that's the natural flow of the conversation. Why does Tooge get a better read (i.e. for you a pass over Shaboo/Sajin/BB) because BB is using my "flip flopping on Sajin/Shaboo" against me. BB want's to push a case on me - therefore my push on Sajin/Shaboo is anti-town/busing/etc. My interaction and my posting with these two players allow for him to analyze me. But he doesn't. He wants to rope me, but honestly if there's a fault to my push (and it's as weak as you say it but some how reasonable at the same time) then I'd expect town BB to actively push against me using the very cases I'm making as ammo against me.

Tooge I have no issue with other than his Kayne read. I disagree with his scum assessment as I read his style as anti-town town. He doesn't. In terms of Tooge's pHD read I agreed with him early on (read my early catch up post) on pHD but reversed my position after his V/LA status update. I reversed my pHD scum read due to this post:

@pHD
1. Not quite a slip. Reread BB. The timing is right (after Dry-fit votes Symph) and reads as a multi post stream of concisousness post. See the triple post and comments - BB's clarification is actually solid with context looked at.

Yeah I see it.
@BB I apologize.

Why? I'm reading frustrated townie. How? pHD is frustrated that people are not

explaining their reads

which reads as a town slip in my mind. How so? I don't see

why would a scum player be frustrated with a lack of read explanations

.

[DTMaster]

Oops wrong quote. I meant this one. Clicked the wrong one >>. This is the town slip quote that I see.

Radioactive wolf, Sajin and BB, what is with people in this game declaring someone is scum or town but not actually backing it up?

[DTMaster]

BB. Give me a meta analysis that PhDScar has faked pro-town frustration as scum before then I would entertain your notion of potential play versus actual records.

[DTMaster]

And what we have here is a

frustrated reaction

that I read as pro-town.

[DTMaster]

@Symphony
...

@Shaboo
Wait. You wanted pHD's intentions by quoting Tooge and saying: "^ This" because this gets pHD to react how? You already had interpreted pHD's vote on Jeremy to be null because he wanted that slot replaced after - like you said you didn't think he was scum. So I fail to see how you were pulling a reaction from pHD. As for his case on you - circumstances are off I give you that since it's after people were attacking him on his vote on BB but legitimately BB stonewalled pHD to where he was asked to explain himself by Hito. This wouldn't be an issue if what pHD said about BB's lack of explanation wasn't true.

As for content do you agree/disagree? I find it odd you don't address that pHD said you weren't trying hard (or fluff posting) nor do you address the argument about deflecting with playstyle.

[DTMaster]

Sorry explain himself to Hito. Bad word choice.

[DTMaster]

Was true. Man I'm having a brain fart with words. I mean that pHD's assessment of a lack of explanations was true with regards to the stone wall.

[DTMaster]

@Shaboo
1. ... so to get to the final point, why didn't you question pHD if you wanted to get to know him? I find your method to point out Tooge's quote to be a bit contradictory if that was the goal since there wasn't a push on your end. As well contradictory with the follow-up read that commented on pHD's earlier play. While I can see that you were drawing attention to it - I just don't get the mindset of why you wouldn't just use direct questions/methods to ascertain your own read on pHD (as you already concluded afterwards).

2. As for the playstyle issue yes it's regards to pHD case on you where he's suggesting that you're only defending your own playstyle rather than commenting on other things in the game. To justify how you play, can you link to some games that show this history. I think that would be sufficient to allow us to make a meta call on you since this is a meta defence.

@BB
1. Respond to Hito's query. He brings up an interesting point about pHD's 160

@Hito
1. Oh whoops. Went back, double checked, Dry-fit did the read.

@Inte
1. Yes. But there are nuggets here. We need more input but we have some polarizing pushes and there are nuggets of infos here.

@Tooge (Preview Edit)
1. Yes except Sajin said he did and he is questioning people with role-alignment calls when he says he read the rules (hence scum argument). This is a contradiction in logic made by Sajin because he was asking Hito hypothetical questions about lynch setups due to roles/etc. If Sajin read the rules, he would know that alignments are independent from the draft rather than a pre-defined setup within the role drafts. Yet he asked questions and make like (in green):

Hi cats and kittens.

It's a damn shame alignments were only given after the draft. Yeah, Sister Mary doesn't work with alignments before draft, but I love having the draft as a scumhunting tool, and instead it's worthless.

On the other hand though, it does mean that the scumteam might have shitty, unsynergistic powers, which would be excellent.

This post really bugs me:

Vote: jeremylu

Because your reason for voting is wrong. Did you read the draft?

Yes - draft is alignment independent. So why the vote? He made an objective mistake in interpretation, but why on earth would this make him more likely to be scum?

Vote: Sajin

@Hito: Welcome to the game.

Draft was alignment independent but his/your vote was after draft. Your predecessor clearly did not pay full attention to the draft because he identified the wrong person with his stated reasoning. I was also trying to identify if he did not like the person or the role with my question. I think pressuring a BP pick solely because of the role is scummy because kills are only scum based (there are no vigs in the setup, only SK and mafia) and certainly worth a vote. I think the excessive VLA is null though, people do VLAs for lots of reasons. Do you disagree with my logic here?

I still want to ask you the follow up question I was going to ask him: How much if any should role be a factor for lynching in smalltown?

@Hito You skirted by my question.

How much should role be a factor for lynching in a smalltown game? Let me add a question: If BP is anti scum what are the most anti town roles in this setup, in your opinion?

@DTM: I see no questions asked of me in that post. Did I miss the questions? And I assume I understand the draft rules.

The only person who voted based on purely role was jermey/hito and I assume he had his alignment at that point when he voted.

Vote was pressure to get answers on it.

What's a great way to introduce noise into the game to get the town offtopic from scum hunting? Discuss how role plays an effect on lynch priority in a predefined smalltown game - i.e. Let's have a mafiascum discussion thread this game.

Mod: Gonna be V/LA till Sunday due to 2 birthdays today and tomorrow and lab work busyness. Just letting you know

[DTMaster]

Oh Tooge. I was probably the one who linked Symphony-Shaboo - since I did so earlier in the game in my first catchup post/around that time.

[DTMaster]

Apologies. Family emergency due to my grandmother passing away. The third part of the funeral (the burial) is tomorrow so I won't have a lot of time until Tuesday evening or Wednesday morning.

@Mod, V/LA to Wednesday

.

[DTMaster]

@Sajin/Symph/Tooge
1. About The Nun Role: As for this, I knew what the innocent child role did when I did the pre game draft. I was hoping this game was bastadly enough to allow for scum to be an "innocent child" (e.g. a fake confirmed town role) but I reread the rules/role and found that:

3. After everyone has chosen a role, alignments will be randomly distributed, with the exception of the player who chose Sister Mary (if any), who is guaranteed to be Town. The alignment distribution will be 9:3:1.

You are Sister Mary, the Nun, aligned with the Town.
Faith From Above (P): Sister Mary is guaranteed to be aligned with the Town.
You win with the Town: You win when all living players win with the Town, and at least one Town player lives.

An example of a game of a

scum aligned innocent child role

is this: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.ph ... start=1175
However this is not a bastard game hence why I've been pressing Wolf to explain his reads to me but not pushing a case on him. We have opposing view points and I am not so secretly trying to determine why.

@Sajin alone
1. So you

want to understand Jeremeylu by getting Hito to answer why Jeremylu did his actions

? Am I the only one who sees the problem in asking Hito this. You do realize that any answer does not reveal any alignment about the slot because you're discussing about a 3rd person between you two.
I fell into this same mentality in one of my earlier games - and realized that the replacement can't answer the mindset for the replacee. However this is an amazing fluff question to derail discussion about

the current player list, and current actions

. So don't tell me you're scum hunting.
If you really want to figure out what Jeremylu was doing you'd be sending a private PM to Jeremy and asking him - but that's breaking all sorts of rules of the games. If you were willing to do such a thing - that would be an ultra-town read (but a very terrible thing as a player).

2. Questions: I may have not been clear: but honestly I'm asking

How does Questioning Hito give you an alignment read on Jeremy's behaviours?

. And

Why are you questioning Hito about hypothetical role/alignment mechanics when we have them explicitly outlined in the page 1 rules

Finally

How does these questions give us alignment reads on HIto/Jeremy?

.

I've attacked you on these points but apparently I wasn't explicit enough. Simply put: Why? You say you want to scum hunt and you were gaining information on the slot - but Why these questions? How do they give a read? What is the final read? Etc. I note that

despite your goal in determining Hito's alignment you have not made a final call between

your Iso 4-7 [/b]

@LLD
1. I kinda lol'd. "I'm a better player as town". These words are funny considering OOT Mafia and subsequent games. I may have been removed from the site for a long time but lol you are extremely passive this game which to be is off about your play. Active LLD = something I would have more comfort in but I don't see it. I agree with Wolf's assessment.

@BB
1. Dryfit-Shaboo/Sajin Cog Dis Comment: I don't see the cog.dissonance but I do see potential sheeping. Having multiple scum reads is fine.

@Hito
1. About Inte's 216 vote on Shaboo: I don't understand. Aside from me who attacked Shaboo, both you and Tooge who were Inte's top town reads have no opinion on the slot. I don't understand why it's scummy that he is not convincing you two (his town reads) to go with you. I can only see a nonexistant case argument - but Sajin, BB, Wolf, LLD, Kayne, Symph (before the replacement), etc have elements of that. Aside from Wolf honestly.... this game is dishing out reads without reasons.

General comments
1. Inte gives me a good town read for 307.

As for the rest

Mod can we get a day extension due to July 1st being Canada Day and July 4th being Independence day? Timing of the holidays would be reasonable for a screwed up activity

[DTMaster]

Tl;dr:
1. Hope for a bastard game with an innocent child role in the predraft, but noted that it cannot be. Hence why I'm asking Wolf for explaination about his town reads to convince me why my Sajin case is wrong rather than pushing him. I'm attacking him for his activity since that doesn't give a free pass.

2. Sajin needs to explain how questioning hito on Jeremy's thought process gives an alignment read on the slot post-replacement.

3. LLD is passive - too much so for my liking. Wild card read here.

4. Inte reads as town. Don't quite understand this "wagon" for his recent posts with regards to hito. Half the player list is doing literally the same thing which is stalling the game since they are stonewalling(ish). See BB, Wolf, etc.

[DTMaster]

So how is screaming actually getting someone lynched? I can make the same interpretation about wanting a person lynch to look like wanting a person lynched - which screaming does fit closer to the latter. By that logic I should rank BB and Inte the same. However 307 is a town slip over a scum slip because if you are arguing that Inte is faking his scum hunting, he certainly is willing to walk away from a BB vs DTM situation. And screaming matches are noisy, which is one of the best things to hide behind as scum because town is self destructing.

[DTMaster]

@Hito
1. 307: If you believe in scum-Inte then unless you see some crazy 3 way bus strat between BB and myself - an attempt to reason out a town on town case reads as a town slip to me. Scum would want to capitalize on either of the cases rather than discouraging it. But I agree 360 is a better indicator of a town read.

2. Being on the inertia of the leading wagon doesn't put BB above Inte. Considering that I'm BB's top scum read - he'd rather push a pHD wagon over a DTM wagon when he moved his vote - which makes BB more suspect under your definition. Inte-notcaring about your read on him is a better indicator of someone's reckless play (and borderline town play). If you're going to argue that optimal strats would have townie players make cases to convince the other players - you can stop. Reckless-Inte is null and goes against survival instincts of a typical scum read.

@Tooge
1. I would like you to elaborate on your current reads on Kayne and pHD as of now. For Kayne: Is he still scummy? Why or why not?. For pHD, why is he scummy in your own words?

Why I ask? I notice between Iso 5 - 28 you have not advanced your initial Kayne case. As well you failed to discuss anything relevant to pHD between this time in terms of why you think he's scummy aside from the early "role vote" on Jeremylu. This is problematic to me since yours is the earliest vote that has not moved. Majority in between comments on the Sajin case and your own defence which is a little hard to decipher a read - but I'll say is standard comments.

[DTMaster]

I did an activity check btw of Shaboo, LLD, Wolf, and Kayne since their activity has been sparse.

LLD: Here and general discussion only.
Wolf: Only game posts here.
Shabbo: Only game posts here. Finished a recent newbie game (town, similar positing style) and actually got replaced in another ongoing game (unknown alignment).
Kayne: Posting in another on going game that entered N1.

I can actually say that Kayne fits the bill for

active lurking

and is ignoring this game.

We have a mix of both non-posters and active lurkers here gais.

[DTMaster]

Tl;dr. Because BB sez so. Actually the bulk of the votes come from his posts from page 8 -10, which I disagree with but that was a failed argument.

[DTMaster]

@Sajin
1. I agree with the Inte wagon. As do a lot of people. Problem comes from: Wolf is confirmed town who started it and then Hito/Kayne followed.
2. I wanted a bastard innocent child role in the pre-draft because it would be fun? Its a reason why I play theme games. I honestly don't think you'd be satisfied with a in D1 explanation about my pre-game behaviour. You do realize I am not pursuing a case on Wolf, nor did I ever push suspicion on to him. I am berating him for his poor play hence why I said:

1. At first I thought it was possible that Sister Mary could be aligned with scum since alignments were given after our drafts - but I read the sample PM of Sister Mary.

Whhhuuue. LLD has a point, prease do something more.

@Wolf....
2. I find it odd you say I'm being reasonable but if you actually have been reading I'm making a Sajin case right now about his questioning about anti town roles as alignment. You have a town read on him. But I'm reasonable.

Elaborate. I should be wrong here but some how you have contrary opinions about my line of thoughts. If you weren't confirmed Id vote you so I'm curious to the town read.

I asked Wolf to do more in his day play considering he's confirmed - 'cause you know it'll make my job a lot easier. A shift in my explaination is due to me rereading the roles/rules Sajin. My pre-game behaviour wanted a scum-nun. The day start note change is due to a reread.

@Kanye
No. Just no. Admits to active lurking and votes Sajin gives be bad vibes all over. I want a Sajin rope, but Kayne makes this dirty and second guess myself.

Unvote, Vote Kanye

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[DTMaster]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh..... Kayne that's a mod killable offence. Fuck. If you're town then ufuufhsfdufhfdsfdsfjksdhjkfdksgsfd......

Unvote, Vote Sajin

[DTMaster]

Actually no. I need to clear my head. Sajin's response about hito makes me want to take a step back from the game for a little bit and reread the exchange.

Unvote

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[DTMaster]

@Sajin
1. I don't quite understand Sajin why you didn't get BB and LL who you agree with (a la DTM-scum read) to push with you when you have a town pHD read. Like what... Killing the good reads is like killing the Starks.gif ..

2. I reread the interaction and found the progression to the DTM-case to be ok. I do note something though, What bothers me about your Jeremylu/Hito push was that Jeremylu voted inte, the drifter instead of LLD the gangster. But Sajin read enough to bring up BPs to discuss role priority in lynches rather than pursue the contradictory vote. Inte posted first but LLD was ahead in the draft.

If Sajin flips Mafia, LLD is not likely mafiascum with him. SK more likely.

@Wolf
I'd prefer if we direct the SK upon identification to grant town a night kill and threaten the SK with lynches if disobeyed. Riskier but I'd want crossfires to happen.

@pHD
1. You suss out the SK hunting for mafiascum. You are ok with sxumhunting even if he SK nails scum. Cross firing is good.

Vote Sajin

[DTMaster]

I wanted to believe that GiF slot was town. I WANTED TO BLIEF. But It wasn't true.

[DTMaster]

BB. PhD lynch wagon prevented. N2 win for town. >>