Mini 1504 - Antihero Mafia REBOOT [GAME OVER]

[Lying Cat]

/confirmed for antiheroing

[Lying Cat]

There's more than enough anger to go around Majiffy

[Lying Cat]

AA and Mollie references the heads of the flying beauties hydra. Also from the beauties part, the answer is presumably yes.

A point of information, there are 4 hydrae in this game, and it is probably a good idea to check out their members to understand references like above.

VOTE: Majiffy for having an avatar that objects to Martian Law.

As an aside, both members of this hydra are going camping tomorrow so we may not be able to contribute much this weekend. Sorry, this is exactly the reason we wanted to Hydra.


-Jingle

Actually, 5 hydra.

[Lying Cat]

http://video.adultswim.com/sealab-2021/martian-law.html

Also in that show, the city of Sealabia.

-Jingle

[Lying Cat]

Back in town. Reading now, posting shortly.

[Lying Cat]

I don't know about votes for Lying Cat yet. There's nothing there to criticize but an RVS vote. But the time for that is passing. Let's see something serious, LC.

OK, something serious:
Do you brush your teeth with mercury? Or are you scum looking for an easy wagon?

I like how Lying Cat disappeared after pressure was applied. Can we get some more votes on them?

I'm told that fact checking is a dead art, but this is ridiculous. How are you going to keep up if you can't be bothered to check something that happened a whole page earlier? That's a special kind of lazy.

Now that we're done screwing around, to business:

There are a load of players who need to post more: Grim, Darthe, Varsoon, and JKLM being the chief offenders. My recent onsite games indicate that lurkerscum is still a thing here, so a big FOS for now. The grimmer half of grim should post more, specifically.

The case on beauties appears to hinge on meta that I haven't experienced so I don't know where to go with that yet. Somebody said that JKLM's vote there is terrible, and I agree. On the plus side, the exchange plus some other things have me townreading majiffy hard.

Jingle thinks Buck is scum, but I think it's too early to tell. I'm not solid on anything right now, but my top three are probably Varsoon, pasch and JKLM. I don't really care to make a case this early, but if anybody who isnt on that list wants me to elaborate, I'd be happy to.

@somebody who knows varsoon- Is the "i'll go eat worms" thing par for his personality, or is it as scummy as it sounds to me?

@majiffy- how do you feel about AP?

@beauties- Would he really speedlynch you as scum? That seems like a bad trade.

I want to talk to my brother before we vote. If he talks me around it will be going on buck, otherwise I think pasch probably gets it.
-Not Jingle

[Lying Cat]

Yeah I'm kinda feeling that re: JKLM, but there's no way pasch is as dumb as he's acting. I'll get back to you on that one.

p-edit Oh whoops. That was Jingle's rvs, I didn't know we were voting anybody.

UNVOTE:

I'm asking his read on you because a) I need context to read you and b) he seems to have some experience with your playstyle .: he can save me the effort of meta-ing you for playstyle info.

-Still not Jingle.

[Lying Cat]

/Egopost as part of The Grim Reaper account, catching up today or tomorrow.

Hi Grim! Post more! I was gonna try to lynch TSO in this one too, but people started making real posts before I got to the thread.

in other news I am pretty sure that majiffy and ap received a red role pm and it will be hugely entertaining to watch them come up with "reasons" as to why it isn't.

I dunno. Especially given the responses from you and him on the speedlynching thing, I read him as trying to get a read on you rather than trying to get you lynched. I think he easily could have ridden the early emotional bit on you to a lynch, and the fact that he didn't suggests that he didn't know whether you were town or scum at the beginning of the wagon. Jingle doesn't think that indicative, but I've played a shitload more mafia than Jingle and I'm confident.

re: you, I was thinking we should lynch JKLM to confirm you. I'm not getting anything scummy from your slot, and if JKLM is scum his vote on you confirms you as town.

Dumb for what? Saying he wants to pressure you? And MafiaSSK just IS that dumb, but pasch agreeing with him is scum?

No not that. The bit I quoted when I said he was dumb the first time. Here's a dramatic reenactment, ribbed for your pleasure:

Spoiler: Dinner Theatre

Jingle: Good evening, maidens and man-maidens. I regret to inform you that Lying Cat will not be performing this weekend, as both band members are going deep into the Washington Wilderness to find themselves and also to teach 11-year-olds how to build campfires.
Pasch: Durr, Jingle u shud post content right nao!
Jingle: [...crickets...]
Shadow: HAY GUISE! Jingle left AFTER pasch told him to post more! SCUM!
SSK: pressure.
Pasch: YAY PRESHUR!

Do you see why I think Pasch and Shadow might have been huffing paint this weekend? SSk didn't give any reasons for his vote other than pressure, and he could have had legitimate reasons for that. Plus, he's reading town to me. Shadow appears to have contracted an acute case of RTFT syndrome, because he's got his causes and correlations all screwed up.

But Pasch reads different. Pasch has that bad vote on SSK, which he unvoted when somebody else called SSK town. He spent a couple of posts discrediting AA, then pushed us on a silly reason that we couldn't answer. He waited until SSK was on our wagon before throwing down a vote. And he tried to derail your suspicions off of JKLM, which is weird. I think he's playing significantly below his potential and I think thats a good place to look for scum day 1.

Top three are Pasch, JKLM, and either varsoon or buck (Jingle thinks buck is faking VI, I think varsoon is faking ATE)

Accordingly:
VOTE: Pasch

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Is this about me, majiffy, or both?

Majiffy, but I am aware that some of it applies to you as well. I like Majiffy's posting style better than yours as town, and I'm reading you as null for some of your other stuff. But my townread appears to have a weak townread on you atm, so I'm happy to let that lie unless better information comes to light. Besides, pasch is scummy and I'm spending my energy on that.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Also Yay! Avatars!

[Lying Cat]

And why you do you think Majiffy wouldn't wagon upon us early of the game if he scum? And you actually didn't feel suspicious about whole majiffy and AP's convinieant town reads on each other?

Oh I'm sure he'd wagon you as scum. He said so himself. But when you guys freaked out he easily could have pushed that to a lynch on the backs of players like buck and shadow. He didn't because his goal wasn't to lynch you, but to figure out your alignment. Since you have the experience to be able to read him, I think he'd rather push that lynch through and talk his way out the next day if he were scum, especially if AP were his partner. The only other option is that he's fishing for towncred, and I don't think that likely since I'm apparently the only one picking up on this. Really, what other benefit does he gain from wagoning you then deciding you're town and backing off?

I don't know how to feel about AP, but we have plenty of time yet for that. He appears to be active enough that there will be no shortage of info to analyze.

re: lurkers, my last two games featured multiple lurkerscum. I'm happy to burn that particular refuge to the ground, but we have to decide which is most likely to be scum first because I'm not willing to sacrifice a lynch without probability. I think pasch and JKLM are the prescription right now.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

On Buck:

Spoiler:

Buck has 10 posts. 30, 41, 93 are empty. 146 and 151 are useless tag adjustments. 35 has a bad RVS with an incredibly waffly addendum.

In 90 he manages to tell us that FB were emotional in the face of their wagon, but still makes no useful contribution to the thread.

145 manages to sheep sthar on Majiffy, FB and SSK on us and Darthe on FB, all without posting anything resembling a coherent thought, before voting SSK for 'gathering town' and 'not offending anyone' while FB has announced her intentions to form a townblock.

166 comes out under pressure, but he never addresses the issues, just downplays them. He's quick to question pasch when under pressure, but ignores the points raised by FB, possibly because she voted elsewhere.

172 is garbage, just repeating what he's already said, and dismissing suspicions on him.
To me this adds up to two possibilities. Buck is a shitty player who isn't scumhunting or contributing in any way OR Buck is trying to make himself look like a shitty player so that he gets overlooked. The latter is scum as hell and the former is null, but considering the ridiculous dramatization of his failvotes and his refusal to address concerns as to his behavior I'm pretty sure he's all scummed up. Furthermore, a cursory search revealed he has several completed games, so I can't really believe he has that much trouble with bbcode. I'm not voting b/c sthar8 doesn't agree with me and we do agree that Pasch is all scummy, but I'm personally leaning towards Buck today.

On Jiffy:

Sthar8 is convinced that Jiffs is towny, and while I'm not convinced, I will say that the man has giant steel cahones if he is scum. Does anyone have some perspective on cahone size for me to help my read on him?

On Shadow:

Not really reading them as scummy. I think their vote on us is largely cerbs being mad about me killing him as scum in our newb.

On Pasch:

This is where sthar8 and I agree most. In addition to all of his flaws that we've addressed, he's also looking like that special kind of lurkerscum that wants to put other lurkers on the pedestal for a lynch. This slot is the only reason I'm slightly hesitant on the Buck-scum, because that would be some pretty aggressive D1 bussing.

On Sthar8:

He's an asshole.

-Not Sthar8

[Lying Cat]

I'm very happy to see the Grim posts and would love to see some more from the two of them. So far they seem incredibly town. I'd love to see the same from SSK and F+L, so that I can start to get a good read on them as well.

@FB: I've still got my eye on Jiffy in case, but we're pretty sure he's town right now. Is there any reason other than Jiffy being for it that you are against a Pasch lynch? I think you're wrong on Jiffy and letting that color your perception. Sthar8 thinks Buck is null right now, so we're probably not voting him today, barring further scummy behavior. I definitely think he's scum myself though.

Hopefully I can Powwow tomorrow with the other head to work out our thoughts re Buck and Varsoon, but I'm still confident with the Pasch lynch.

-Jingle

[Lying Cat]

Where?

He's been doing it a bunch recently too:

Spoiler: Tale of Woe

I'm not going to replace out on Antihero, but don't expect much out of me until I work out of this funk. I can't do anything right lately.

Damn it, man,
Let me live without putting me in the dirt every time I make a move!

I get the nauseating sensation that I'll never be listened to (again).

This shit really bugs me.

Fuck, why did I even post in here? All you guys are doing is discrediting me.

Last time this happened was Death's Diner, and it wasn't pretty. Of course, I nabbed scum that time, but no one cared to listen.

POOR VARSOON ERRYBODY MEAN TO HIM HE'S SO MISUNDERSTOOD.

Like I said, it could be personality indicative rather than alignment, but it reads manipulative to me. Insultingly unsubtle manipulation, at that. Anybody with meta experience there want to chime in?

pasch wagon is bad and I am the 1 who started it. I am telling you that we think majiffy and ap are scum and we think bucky is number #3. plz smack your other head around and vote him.

also pasch started town posting what is the case on him I don't even

I am just going to flirt with majiffy and ap while I wait for the rest of you to come to your senses.

Mollie,
The day Jingle tries to smack me around is the day he starts using facial recognition software to type. I'm bigger than him.

pasch started useless-town posting, which fits my read on him perfectly. He is sooooooo scuuuuummmmyyyy.

You think buck is the lurkerscum? What have you seen from him that comes from scum rather than VI?

Probably a town wrong, though.

Disagree.

Seriously all three of you need to stop this circle-jerk of 16-year-old-girl bickering. It's a really dumb argument.

Agree. It does distract from Grim's actual points about pasch rather nicely though.

Next time I'm in Eurodisney, he gets a punch in his fluffy face.

Take a camera with you.

Youtube that shit after you get out of Disney jail.

The only way out of Disney Jail is an excruciating, ragged last breath exhaled from under a mask wearing an oversized sombrero while you're chained to a singing animatronic racist caricature disguised as a parrot. They don't fuck around.

I might come back for more later. It's a race between whether I sober up or fall asleep first.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Welcome Belisarius!

@LC: Can you elaborate on your Jiffy read?

Mmmmmm no. This head is spending it's mafia-time on something else, and Jingle isn't as smart as I am. Can you wait ~3 days?

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Smashing.

[Lying Cat]

@ Beli: Your question is insane. Not only is contraction use not a facet of play that is routinely checked, he has used contractions this game as a CTRL-F of his ISO just showed me. Not many, but they're there. To humor you, no one has noticed this before, or they would have answered you by now. It is unlikely AP avoids contractions given the two in his sig. No this isn't really alignment indicative. Filling the thread with conversation about contractions isn't going to help find scum and is frankly annoying. Stop the useless chatter and scumhunt for real.

@ JKLM: Your gambit is useless. If JKLM is scum, his gambit is a quick response to what looks like a wagon growing to dangerous levels. If JKLM is town, his scum list is only as accurate as his reads on those players. Even if he is town, and I'm not convinced there by a long shot, then we have to decide if we trust his reads. Considering he seems to be having trouble keeping track of the players in his #1 scumspot (SSK and his replacement Bel) I don't think I'm gonna wager the game on him having already called scum out.

[Lying Cat]

-Jingle

[Lying Cat]

I have not forgotten about my promise to bel, but I gotta go do kid stuff in like half an hour and I haven't caught up yet. I'll be back after scouts, which will be in seven or eight hours ish. Will def post here tonight.

Also mollie, we overlap enough that the answer is probably yes. I'll think about it this afternoon and get back to you tonight.

[Lying Cat]

Posting before heading to work, will be on later if I don't see Sthar8, might be on later anyway-

Mollie- I see no problem with forming a townbloc with you, seeing as you seem fairly town to me, and our reads overlap in some areas. I won't commit to anything without confirming with my other head and I haven't seen him since catching up on the game. I still kind of want him to explain his townread on Majiffy, because he is the one who convinced me, but if necessary I will post the reasoning as best I can later.

In other news, I'm liking GG as town, mostly gut, but his posts look like he's both invested in scumhunting and putting thought into his cases. I'm still convinced that the Pasch is scum, and that is the lynch I'm most willing to see, but I suppose we could go after his scumbuddies.

@ Mollie- are you reading Jiffs as scum on gut, or is there something tangible to your case. I don't think I can trust your gut enough to negate our reads, but if you have something concrete I can see what I make of it. In my experience TvT fights are terrible for the town.

-Jingle

[Lying Cat]

Alright, I'm back.

Wrote the post then fell asleep. Apologies.
I got to explain how a tracheotomy works to two twelve-year-olds, which is always hilarious.

@Belisarius- It's an accumulation of minor tells, which I tend to prefer to a couple of major ones, barring proof. Early on, Majiffy could have pushed a quicklynch through on beauties, but he made it clear that it was not his intention. His response to "would you speedlynch mollie" showed no concern for his appearance. He's actually scumhunting despite the noise his discussion with mollie is generating, where scum could easily use that as a cover to not post anything useful. I'm sure I'm forgetting something else, but basically every time he's had the option of lazy scum play or productive town play it's been the town alternative.

@beauties- We think you're town and are willing to work with you. Obviously I'm not going to promise sheeping or a proxy vote, but we'll give serious consideration to what you say and if we're going to compromise we'll discuss it with you first.

@AP- I'd rather vote scum, thanks. I haven't given up on his wagon.

There's a bunch I haven't responded to yet, hopefully I'll get to it today.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Welcome ETL! Are you masons with Majiffy?

"IIoA" and "Active lurking" are nothing more than bullshit buzzwords,

what

I think this could be a theme for the whole game so far. All the strongest pushes are on pretty town looking players, and they're all being done in scummy fashions, but there's too many players puking out awful ideas for them all to be scum.

Why is that not being wagoned right now?

Paschendale, jerking around in the corner, NEEDS THE SPOTLIGHT MOVED ONTO HIM!

GG

Please no. I have a list of things I never want to see, and that just got added.

@mollie
I have grim as probtown. His play matches the game we played together, even if that was only half a day phase.

I also like FNL right now.

My scumlist has not changed substantially. Pasch, then varsoon, then JKLM. Jingle feels differently, but I can't remember what his top 3 are right now.

@FNL- I'm not sure what you're asking. His posts in thread have been lazyscum from the beginning, but I have no meta experience with him.

there are at least half a dozen players who would jump at the chance to play this game for the playerlist alone.

I wanna comment on this. There's a bunch of bitching in the last couple of pages, and I really don't see why. We've got an excellent playerlist of active players, and an excellent amount of discussion on a variety of suspects. The game has been open for 13 days, and the mod has issued a grand total of

three

prods to

two

total players. One of whom, incidentally, is one of the

two

players replacing out. If you don't see something to talk about or analyze, you're not fucking trying hard enough. And if there's no content to your liking, instead of whining that the other players aren't catering to your special butterfly needs,

generate some you lazy fuck

. It is not my job to entertain you. And putting the burden of scumhunting on everybody else is incredibly scummy. That is all.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Does buck also have a QT of ways you can go fuck yourself?

[Lying Cat]

what

What I said. When was the last time you've seen scum caught based on "IIoA" or "Active lurking"

Oh that's right, never.

When was the last time you saw a player harassed using those buzzwords only to have them flip town?

Oh that's right, every other game.

Fuck IIoA and active-lurking-based pushes.

I find it curious that someone who claims to scumhunt using behavioral baseline deviation analysis wouldn't understand the principles behind the active lurking and IIoA tells.

Back before I was frozen in arctic ice on a mission to kill Nazis, people used to try to learn the theory behind stuff like that. In my return games and the recent games I've read, I've encountered eleven (11) active lurking scum and three (3) IIoA cases, all obvious and correct. In the first game I played this year, we lost because half the (lurking) town found it scummy that I wanted to lynch (lurking) scum. I understand that it might be trendy to attempt to keep the lynch success rate as close to random average as possible, but please lets pretend at least to be catching scum.

p-edit holy shit you guys just posted a page of stuff. Jingle is watching me go on a date tonight so he can learn how that works, but one of us will post later.

Woo. First ever hydra slip. Feels like a Madonna song.

[Lying Cat]

This quote still bothers me from LC's iso. Its very pointed and kinda lacks a followup opinion on Splintered which given that Lc is bothering to bring him up is odd.

Do I really need to say that he proved me right? I mean, he

was

too lazy to keep up with the game. And now he's gone, and his replacement will hopefully do better and we can all move on to more important things. Did you expect me to celebrate?

Also this is very vague and I can easily see LC simply asserting that Grim is town for 'meta' as scum if he knows Grim is town because Grim likely bother to question why.

Or I could be doing the exact same thing as I did with my Majiffy read. I'm happy to elaborate if you like, but its a waste of time to provide in depth reasoning on a townread. I'm not making a case here, I'm providing transparency for my thought processes.

In case anybody's not super clear on this, I want pasch dead. I'm not flooding the thread with cases because Grim's doing a pretty good job, but if he gets tired and I have time I might.

I understand how they work. I'm sure they were very useful scumtactics back in the Punic Wars, but

today

, in 2013, they're just sound and fury, signifying nothing.

The only "evidence" I've seen for this so far was an argument from repetition perpetrated by a bad player who went on to whine that his team let him down in post after they lost.

To continue the metaphor, it's unlikely you know how to use a straight razor either, but that doesn't make it any less effective.

I don't know where AP from ten pages ago is, but whoever replaced him is fast climbing the list. More on that later.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

I wanted Jingle to open the day for us but he refuses to deal with the above bullshit. He's a delicate child.

So uh, whats up guys? (Other than Varsoon throwing a bitch fit because somebody dared to argue with him)

@beauties- how're you feeling today? I still think pasch is scum, and varsoon was really pinging my 'dar yesterday but all I'm getting from him today are narcissist tells. Either way, we need to hear from his replacement before we go anywhere with that. I want content from AP and beli immediately.

To that end:

Summon: Belisarius

@majiffy- Did you and buck and ETL build anything exciting overnight? You wanna help me lynch pasch today?

NKA sucks... Far too much WIFOM for my liking
~G

Sorta disagree. NKA is one of the most valuable tools we have... once there is verifiable information about the acting parties, which we don't have yet.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Welcome, Thor!

Why did you call out Beli in bold after stating this and not me?

THE SUMMONER regrets to inform you that due to cosmic radiation, his powers are only able to summon one entity at a time. However, THE SUMMONER would like to reassure you that he accounted for your jealous nature, and was confident that his tender attentions directed at another would draw your attention to the thread. Rest assured, if you had not responded, THE SUMMONER would have made you the next target of his incredible powers.

WHO SUMMONS ME?

Bro, is new day, bro. Want reads and ideas. Show of good faith: AP smells like he was used to prepare Kiviak, and Varsoon was being roleplayed by three fourth-graders in a trechcoat, who have now gone home. Unfortunately, they took the ball with them.

Call it gut, but I feel like LC is trying to hedge a scumread on me. He even opens today by calling out me/Beli (FnL suspects) and it just feels like fishing for which ML has the most support.

Hedge nothing. I'm

developing

a scumread on you. To be perfectly transparent, I would not be comfortable with voting either you or beli right now, and I'm equally uncomfortable with not having a real read on you. .: I want more content from both of you.

Can't stay on unfortunately, gtg to scouts

Jingle and I run a troop that meets on Tuesdays! When I'm not posting on the weekends, it's either because we're busy at work (and Jingle's not posting either) or I'm camping with the boys (and making Jingle cover for me.)

I can't articulate a single stance by Darthe, Lying Cat, or Buckwild that stood out to me. They need to take a stand on something.

"Bloop, bloop. I'm not going to scumread cat, but I'll lump him in with the worst lurkers, who I am scumreading. Ignore him when he calls me scum, plz. Bloop bloop."
VOTE: Pasch

Still happy with that.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Hey so I think that's L-1. While I am super excited to kill pasch dead, I think we need a claim and for everyone else to check in before we actually lynch him.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

^strawman. Not worth responding to. Claim please.

[Lying Cat]

Lazy? I don't think he's read the thread yet. There's a lot to read and I'm down with giving him some time. Varsoon going to live with a nice family on a farm was pretty null to me anyway.

[Lying Cat]

EBWOP: the above is directed at beauties.

[Lying Cat]

Jesus. Day phase just started. Isn't it a bit early to be lynching? The sun's not all the way up yet! It's so early even a drill sergeant wouldn't wake anyone up. Hell, even God isn't out of bed!

I mean, yeah we've got other stuff to do today. But he's scum and there's no harm in getting his claim and intent out of the way before we discuss reads and shit. Are you going to do anything today, or do you still need your coffee first?

I guess pasch's scumminess isn't as universally understood as I thought? I'll post a wall after work if that'll help. You can each then choose your own brick from it and help me beat him to death.

Also I think I had an epiphany re: AP's play. I'm not sure what it means yet, so I'm going to iso him and talk with my other head to see if it's imaginary like the music I hear or real like the ants all over my skin.

Town reads: beauties, majiffy, grim

Need more from: AP, beli, thor, etl

Who the fuck is: Darthe, buck

Thor has not repaired the damage varsoon did, but he's making a start. This looks like it's gonna be a POE and associative tells game for me, as townreads abound and nobody but pasch is really overt scum. Jingle still thinks buck is scum, but all I'm getting there is "VI in over his head."

-sthar8

p-edit Yay I was right about buck. Jingle should do something horrible as penance. Suggestions? (that enough celebration for you AP?)

[Lying Cat]

@ majiffy- Maybe. I was thinking he could clean your seed out of Thor's beard.

Welcome Mastin! I think I remember you from the Permian Period, before the Great Sleep. I don't think we ever played together though, unless you went by a different name then.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

obv

[Lying Cat]

OK, I knocked off work three hours early because I got some bad news. I'm using you guys as a behavioral trigger buffer, then I'm going to get so drunk that I cannot walk. You will forgive me if I wind up aggressive or otherwise offensive, and I apologize in advance if I give up halfway through and post a rant.

I'm going to start with pasch because pidgeon obviously cares what I have to say about him, and if I bail it will please me for him to be waiting unsatisfied.

Here are five reasons pasch is scum:

Spoiler: Why pasch needs to die

1. Mudslinging.

He spent day 1 looking for an easy mislynch. His serious votes day 1 were for: SSK/Beli, me, buck, and finally JKLM. What do all those votes have in common? Each was on a player who looked at the time like they couldn't or wouldn't defend themselves. Today, we've had a vote on varsoon, then an unvote when varsoon started arguing,

then a revote based on varsoon's actions once he had been replaced

. Now, Varsoon was scummy as shit. But why unvote when he started fighting back? And why are those reasons suddenly strong enough again as soon as Thor joins the game? Maybe because pasch's reasons for voting Thor

cannot be defended against

. No matter what Thor says, pasch can come back with "sorry bro, varsoon screwed your slot." It's a comfortable place to park his vote without having to do any work.

tl;dr pasch hit every wagon that looked easy on day 1, then immediately dived onto the easy wagon day 2. He's not looking for scum, he's looking for a wagon that will end in a lynch.

2. Keeping his options open.

If we look at pasch's expressed suspicions day 1, we meet me and splintered, then (in post 164) JKLM, Grim, Buck, Varsoon, and FNL, then Majiffy and Varsoon, then Grim again, Beli, Beauties, JKLM, darthe and buck. That's like, what, 11/13? I'm almost surprised to not see him FOS-ing himself in there. He keeps saying Grim is town, except when he's not saying that. The only consistent town read he has is AP.

The only consistent town read he has is AP.

conclusion: Pasch is not narrowing down to scum. He's keeping his options open, and keeping his support for any wagon plausible. Plus, delicious waffles.

3. His adorable townread on Grim.

Pasch's slapfight with Grim yesterday was very interesting. Of particular note are three things he did. First, he ignored grim's case. This is not particularly indicative, I do it all the time as both alignments. If a case sucks, I'm not going to waste time on it unless multiple dumb somebodies are getting dragged along. But when Grim pushed, pasch resorted to reductio ad absurdiam in his own defense. Note that he didn't try to explain himself first or defend the reasoning that was being attacked, he just dived straight into "your argument is too stupid to respond to." When pushed on this, rather than even acknowledge grim's points, he reduces them to semantics. When grim fell into the semantic-argument trap, pasch pushed that even harder before accusing grim of confirmation bias. Fun fact: confirmation bias on the part of an investigator cannot be reliably determined by the person being investigated, as they

also

suffer from inherent bias when examining the evidence. Additionally, confirmation bias as used here can be applied to any evidence, and confirmation bias does not imply that the case is unsound. I find the cry of "confirmation bias!" in self-defense to be incredibly scummy.

Finally, and most importantly, when Grim would not back down pasch declared him town and simply wrong. This has two notable benefits for scum: first, they can discredit the town player completely without attempting to get a universal townread lynched, and second, it allows them to defend that person without repercussion, even potentially resulting in towncred with their accuser's death.

result: Pasch's townread on grim appears to be based on Grim's scumread of him. Before grim was pushing him, pasch had him as an FOS (along with ~everyone else), but once it was clear that Grim wasn't going to be fallacied into submission, he suddenly listed him as town.

4. (the painkillers and whiskey I ingested are starting to do their thing, and the cello music I'm listening to is not helping much. I'm trying to stay coherent, bear with me) The Bitching

Pasch had a couple of posts yesterday complaining about how much he disliked that day phase. I've gone over most of that before, but it's still scummy. Particularly, instead of generating content and scumhunting, pasch has been playing extremely reactively, commenting on other people's points and defending himself only when absolutely necessary. I am sure that he found that a very boring way to play the game (hence whining), and such a conservative style points to a desire to play the night game at the expense of the day game, which is a scumtell. He displayed excitement when it was time to hammer because he wanted to get to night and he tried to stay out of the spotlight as much as possible during the day. He then opened today with (surprise!) a poorly justified sheep vote.

:. This reads indicative of scum to me. He wants to be analyzing the thread after the lynch so that he can make his night kill choice with complete information.

5. Repeated ad Lapidem
Pasch's actual arguments (of which there have been very few) have consisted almost entirely of various ad lapidem arguments. See: his argument for Thor as scum ( because obvscum) his argument against his lynch (because retarded) and his repeated assertion that I haven't done anything this game (because I want him lynched, apparently). This is easily the weakest of the arguments, but this suggests to me that pasch both doesn't have any legitimate argument on those points, and that he doesn't want his in-thread opinions scrutinized.

I'm spiraling hard, and unless I get much drunker much quicker I'm not going to make it to work tomorrow. Plus I need to talk to Jingle about AP, and I can't bear that right now. So I'm going to chemically induce amnesia, and I'll get to pidgeon tomorrow. Sorry AP.

-sthar8

p-edit as of posting, 1142 is the last thing I read, I think. I'll catch up on the rest later.

[Lying Cat]

I don't like Darthe, Thor, or Lying Cat clamming up so much.

I'm going to try to say this nicely.

Spoiler: Dearest Pasch,

MOTHERFUCKER I HAVE A JOB. WHERE I WAS FOR THIRTEEN HOURS TODAY, TEN HOURS YESTERDAY AND ELEVEN HOURS THE DAY BEFORE. I WILL BE THERE FOR FOURTEEN HOURS TOMORROW. I ALSO HAVE A GIRLFRIEND, A SCOUT TROOP, AND MY FAMILY COMPETING FOR MY TIME. DESPITE THIS, THE MOD HAS NOT YET PRODDED ME FOR INACTIVITY. CONSEQUENTLY, I AM UNABLE TO MUSTER A SOLID FUCK TO GIVE ABOUT YOUR IMPLICATION THAT I'M NOT MEETING YOUR IMAGINARY BULLSHIT DOUBLE STANDARD OF POSTING. I REALIZE THAT YOUR SCUMMY ASS WOULD LIKE TO DISCREDIT ME VIA THIS METHOD, BUT I THINK YOU'LL FIND THAT IF YOU CHECK THE TIMESTAMPS BEFORE YOU POST SOMETHING LIKE THIS, YOU'LL COME OFF LOOKING A LITTLE LESS FUCKING SILLY.

Regards,
Sthar8

Also I just thought of a really crazy setup mechanic but it would require way too much work on my end so I'm probably never going to make a setup for it.

Jingle and I were discussing one where a single player would be one half of nine separate neighbor pairs. Mr. Rogers mafia, but I'd feel really bad for the person playing Mr. Rogers. That came from him believing your mason buddy to be scum, and my reply of "I think everybody is masons with majiffy."

Ohhey, sthar8, you live in Washington, too! (Though on the dry side. I live on the we(s)t side. ) Even have a 2008 joindate. (Though you're half a year older than I am.) We'll be good friends, I can tell.

Yay! Unless you're scum, in which case I will destroy you for spamming the thread. After I do that, we can be friends again. The other half of this hydra is my little brother. He's younger, gentler and more naive, but I'm definitely prettier.

Everyone- I'm not comfortable with the number of associatives we're seeing in thread. Pasch is scum, so lets kill him before we do his partners.

Re: AP- I'm riding the painkillers-and-booze train again tonight, and AP is a much more prolific poster than pasch. I'll answer questions on specifics if you guys have any, but I'm not going to dig up a bunch of examples tonight. The main thrust of my conversation with Jingle this afternoon was that I'd noticed AP's day 1 reads were all over the place. He wasn't looking for an easy lynch or keeping options open like pasch has been, but his reads were changing very rapidly and with little cause. Add to this some conflicting tells I'd been picking up from him, and I was left with two distinct theories regarding AP's play. When I discussed them with Jingle, he added a third alternative I hadn't considered. To avoid poisoning the well, I want to ask a couple of questions about AP's meta before I present the ideas that we think probable. So, for those of you who've played with him:
1. Does AP care about winning?
2. Does he take pride in his town game?

Scumlist is pasch, thor/beli, ap with a long jump between pasch and the others. I find ETL's rage to be nonindicative, and the case on her appears to be based on associative tells, which I refuse to consider without flip confirms. Darthe apparently has way more posts than I thought he did, which makes my teeth itch and earns him a reread tomorrow. Jingle wants mastin on the scumlist, but he's still fighting me on the buck thing and I'm typing the damn post so I get to decide who goes where. Townlist is beauties, grim, jiffy.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

I'll be busy till I'm off work but really quick-

Is scum daychat a thing now? I had it as an experimental role in a game years ago, and I think we decided it was ridiculously powerful.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

VOTE: Mollie

I hate you forever.

[Lying Cat]

UNVOTE:
OK maybe not that long.

I'm really drunk right now, so not going to vote until I've sobered up. I think APs claim makes sense with what I was thinking last night.

See you all in the morning

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

WHAT THE ACTUAL FUCK GUYS. I'M STILL HUNGOVER AND YOU'RE ALREADY LYNCHING? DO NONE OF YOU UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT OF "HOLIDAYS?"

How many people haven't even posted in this day???

Goddammit AP, Jingle was right. You're so fucking dead tomorrow. And your fucking lurker partners are next.

[Lying Cat]

VOTE: Angry Pidgeon

FRIED SCUMS YAY

[Lying Cat]

Mollie, is there anything worth reading in the last three pages?

[Lying Cat]

Okay then

[Lying Cat]

Sweet, stuff to talk about.

Grimgroove (not guyett) could you be a doll and put up a detailed case on me? It would be very helpful.

Majiffy, I'd rather not talk too much about townreads today. If I'm reading correctly, the scum are going into a low information kill, and I'd like to keep it that way. Scumreads are cool though. And if you can dig up any gems from AP's shitpile, please share. I got nothing.

ESL, how do you feel about grim?

Mollie, I have just started assuming that anyone I don't know is you. I'm probably going to join another game when meatworld cools down a bit, but you have to promise to be in no more than three of the playerslots. Also considering a nom for "Ms. Altslip" title after the game.

Anti- I will be V/LA the 8th through 11th. I'm running an event that could top 100 players, and I need the prep and cooldown time. I've called up Jingle for an "all hands on deck" as well, but he might be able to sneak away and post.

Summon: Belisarius

Again.


-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

We got no such thing yet. Just thoughts flowing free

Well, dammit. I was hoping for a case to analyze so I could be sure of

your

alignment. Jingle and I are fighting over who the last scum is.

Roleblock: this

Get back to lurking Beli.

VOTE: Angry Pidgeon

[Lying Cat]

Haven't we already given you guys enough to analyze?

No. I've discussed this where you could read it before. If the case is on me, I can eliminate a bunch of variables and the analysis is much easier. Plus Jingle's being a little bitch about pasch.

Coffee is for the weak and feeble. Going to change three tires, then go to scouts, then paint a dragon. Be back later.

[Lying Cat]

Man every day in the life of Lying Cat is an adventure.

Because I don't drink coffee. Obviously.

I WAS gonna go camping last weekend, but too many people were afraid of a little snow, so we cancelled and I got to work instead of hiking up the side of Steamboat Rock.

[Lying Cat]

Right in the feels ;_;

~G

I've played with Grim before, :. he is easier to read.

Don't cry, I still love you for not drinking shitty beer.

p-edit: HA FUCK YOU AP. My summons goes before your block!

Beli- are you ready to end the day?

[Lying Cat]

If you've read the books, none of the spoilers should be surprising anyway.

Okay I'm really leaving now, I'm like 20 min late.

[Lying Cat]

VOTE: No Lynch

Jingle and I are V/LA until Monday. Please do not end the day before that, or I will cut you in your sleep.

-sthar8

Actually nevermind. We have confirmed town, so do not gain info from no lynch

UNVOTE:

I'll be back later if I can.

Fucking Hydraslips. I must be channeling mollie.

[Lying Cat]

Christ.

I go V/LA and you all start taking stupid pills. Catching up now, posting shortly.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Oh yeah they haven't really done much, either (other than vote for no lynch, then take it away immediately).

Fuck you.

Where is cats?
~G

Fuck you.

Majiffy gets a pass because I read his post as "we should wait for LC" rather than "why is LC not posting."

Ok We are Vanilla Townie

popcorn to Cats

Harry Callahan, 1-shot BP. The ability flavor references the "I know what you're thinking" monologue from Dirty Harry.

In other news, beli has scumclaimed three times today and you all are too dense to see it.

Spoiler: Strike One

I am John Constantine, Town Watcher. My role PM explicitly states the scum know I'm in the game; I presume that means they know there's a watcher, because I have no idea who John Constantine is. I watched AP N1 and Lying Cat Nights 2, 3, and 4. Nobody visited LC Nights 2 and 3 and I got No Result last night, hence my certainty about a roleblocker.

My first impulse is to believe AP based on the fact that I'd have picked a fakeclaim more likely to draw out a CC or at least picked an easier target than Thor, but I was pretty fucking sure about Pasch, too.

- You're a

watcher

, but you think it plausible that there's a gunsmith in town? With a flipped mason? Really? Sounds to me like you didn't expect to be claiming a PR when AP was still alive. Also, nice hedge on AP's claim, since you knew he was gonna get lynched eventually.
- Why did you target AP? For that matter, why did you target me? I know of a very good reason for targeting me, but I don't think you picked up on it.

Spoiler: Strike Two

Not true. We know that

nobody

visited LC nights 2 and 3, meaning he wasn't roleblocked or protected. That's something. Also, scum knew there was a watcher, and that made them hold back from NK'ing the most optimal target. That's why Jiffy is still alive in mylo.

You're saying that

watcher

is something I'd claim as scum? You think I'd say "nobody visited" 3 times in a row and then change it up by saying "no result" because...UNICORNS?

- I think it much more probable that Jiffy is alive in MYLO because your kill on him was blocked N3, and rather than potentially waste it again AP decided to go doc hunting. You're twisting your night actions to make them fit your fakeclaim, but you're having to ignore the Razor to do so.
- I also think it probable that you claimed to have been blocked because you or your partner is a roleblocker. Not knowing that there is only one targeting town role in the game, claiming to have been blocked would give you credibility with anyone who had been blocked previously.
- Given the probable presence of a rb who could only counter a jk, a mason pair and a bp, I'd bet big money that the last scum role is some kind of information role to help them avoid missing kills. So what is it? Rolecop? Tracker? Or maybe you really are a watcher?

Spoiler: Strike Three

Vote: No Lynch

Mathematically, it makes sense. Scum pretty much have kill me tonight, this way you go into lylo with a massive red herring removed and keep Jiffy.

I'll be watching Jiffy, so if they were to shoot him, I'll have a watcher guilty and then it's 1v1, and a 50% chance of hitting scum is a better chance than we'd have otherwise.

- Craplogic and Crapmaths. IF you were town and your scenario was correct, scum would just kill jiffy and 1v1 you BECAUSE you are a "massive red herring." Also, your maths are wrong because you're assuming we win if we hit one scum. Those of us playing to town wincons need TWO hits to win, and sacrificing a conftown player and an investigative role to hit one scum would leave us in a LYLO of {grim, me, esl, reck} minus whichever the scum feels is their weakest member. Then each remaining town has a pool with a 50% chance of hitting scum, which is exactly the same probability as what we have now, minus our conftown. That assumes a fantasy world where you're actually a town watcher, which you aren't. In reality, we'd no lynch, you'd kill majiffy tonight, and you'd fake a guilty on a townie tomorrow and try to convince either of the two remaining town to follow you to a scumwin.
- If you're gonna go fishing for towncred, you should at least try to keep your claims straight. YOU CLAIMED TO HAVE BEEN ROLEBLOCKED ON THE NIGHT MOLLIE DIED, YOU MORON. That means that unless the town has two blocking roles, which would be insane, if you were town we would have a guaranteed scum RB alive. Which means you would get no result, and your plan devolves again into "sacrifice the conftown for no gain." Of course, you probably either planned that all along, or it didn't occur to you that you might be blocked since you and the blocker are on the same team.

If I'm wrong, it means the scumteam is grim and reck, so I'm not voting yet. ESL is probtown for talking grim down from selflynch, jiffy is confirmed.

p-edit Jiffy, he believed AP's claim, so no his claim doesn't make sense. He's trying to kill you with craplogic. His team has already gotten away with a faked guilty once, I'm not going to let them do it again. Show me where I'm wrong.

[Lying Cat]

My question on where you were is to do with wanting you to claim so I could discuss the validity of the claims.

And the answer was obvious to anyone with half a brain. Both halves of you are too smart for that dumbass question, :. fuck you.

Jiffy, I'm listening. Why is reck town, and why is grim more likely than Beli "shitclaim" Sarius? Do you think grim's bussing right now?

[Lying Cat]

Glanced over Lying Cats claim. Crumbs?

I didn't crumb BP, obviously. I crumbed doc d1 three or four times, and tried to doctell like I did in the last game you played with me. I'll dig up my doc crumbs in a minute.

[Lying Cat]

for having an avatar that objects to Martian Law.

Botched crumb from jingle. From the episode he was referencing, "Doctors and other wizards are forbidden under Martian Law."

Do you brush your teeth with mercury?

Probably too-subtle from me. Mercury used to be commonly used in medicine.

Shadow appears to have contracted an acute case of RTFT syndrome

I think pasch and JKLM are the prescription right now.

I got to explain how a tracheotomy works to two twelve-year-olds, which is always hilarious.

true, and also a crumb.

[Lying Cat]

Spoiler: The Power of Mollie compels me!

Yes. They're not mutually exclusive.

Not exclusive, but not balanced. Double investigative roles that can confirm each other and a mason pair? With no other roles, that could confirm nearly half the town on N1.

Yeah, that totally makes more sense than mollie JK'ing AP because he was confirmed scum.

Strawman. I don't care whether mollie blocked you killing or AP killing or your partner killing or jailed Jiffy to prevent his death. Hell, your team could have suffered from a bout of stupidity and targeted me for some reason; I doubt I would have been notified. We're discussing your justification for your claim, which involved Jiffy being alive because scum are making suboptimal kills because they somehow know there is a watcher in the game. Which is way more complicated than "blocked kill, doc hunt."

For the record, Mollie's EV was way higher jailing Jiffy than anyone else. It's what I would have done.

ironyyyyyy

Look, Alanis, I'm going to have to revoke your privileges on that word until you learn what it means.

Watcher + gunsmith is implausible, but rb+jk of opposing factions is probable?

Uh, yeah. Key word being "opposing." Although there might not be a scum rb in the setup, I just think your behavior makes it likely.

...Which means tomorrow's lynch still has to be scum...

Right, that's what I'm saying. But for scum reason you want us to make both decisions without the input of conftown. The odds of random lynching correctly will be the same, but I want Jiffy around for as many lynches as possible because we can trust his intent. Your plan sacrifices all of our advantages

before we make the first decision

Sacrificing an investigative role who nobody will believe until post-flip is not much of a sacrifice, and Jiffy won't make it to 3p lylo regardless. My way you get him in 5p lylo at least.

It doesn't matter because you're scum and wouldn't die anyway, but your pretend logic is broken. If nobody will believe you until post flip, then what incentive do scum have to flip you?

And you think I'd win that fight in the current gamestate?

Not after I pointed it out, no. But I have enough respect for the remaining players in the game to think that you and your partner had a shot at it before, especially if reck is town (no offense reck, that's based solely on you not having read most of the game.)

Speaking of, though, didn't your "plan" rely on you being able to convince the town of a guilty?

THAT'S WHAT HAPPENED, YOU MORON. JK takes precedence, Mollie's death doesn't undo the jailkeep.

That's fair. I dunno what I was thinking. Apologies.

I pray thee on the morrow, send a messenger to Heaven to enquire of Mollie. An he find her not, seek her in the other place thyself.

I'm sure Jiffy will be joining her by dawn, so he can ask. I plan to solve AP's loneliness by dusk. Would you care to join him? He must miss you terribly.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Not exclusive

Then stop acting like it's impossible

Sure it's possible, in the same way that it's possible for air to spontaneously become gold. A setup where gunsmith and watcher can both target a mason and have 4 conftown N1 is believable. The same setup where a gunsmith guilty N1 means a scum lynch D2 and D3 because the gunsmith is definitely the kill is also believable. I'm sure you think that Anti sucks at balancing games and that's why you believed your scumbuddy's claim. Definitely not because he was your scumbuddy.

We're discussing your justification for your claim, which involved Jiffy being alive because scum are making suboptimal kills because they somehow know there is a watcher in the game. Which is way more complicated than "blocked kill, doc hunt."

Not when my role PM explicitly warns me that the scum know there's a watcher in the game. Not "somehow know," but "know because the mod told them as part of the setup"

So you say. I don't trust you, and you lying is the much simpler alternative. Hence the razor.

For the record, Mollie's EV was way higher jailing Jiffy than anyone else. It's what I would have done.

But Mollie's not you, so that means fuck all.

The expected value of an action doesn't factor in the player. You're implying that Mollie is bad, and that doesn't fit with this game.

ironyyyyyy

Look, Alanis, I'm going to have to revoke your privileges on that word until you learn what it means.

But for scum reason you want us to make both decisions without the input of conftown.

You mean the very input you're not only ignoring but actively opposing

right now

? Hypocrisyyyyyyy Hm. Nope, doesn't have the same ring. Going back to using "ironyyyy."

We're engaging Jiffy, not sheeping him. I was also unaware that we were making up meanings for words. In that case, I find your arguments to be extremely vloop.

what incentive do scum have to flip you?

If they kill Jiffy tonight, their chances of victory tomorrow are 50%
If they kill me, their chances are 60%
60 is more than 50.

Your math is baffling, and I can only assume you decided those numbers are pretty. By your own assertion your claim is unbelievable until after your flip, so it is not a 50/50 EV, but rather much worse. If you die, then it's only 50/50 if we assume a random lynch, but that's irrelevant because you're scum.

Speaking of, though, didn't your "plan" rely on you being able to convince the town of a guilty?

Shaheed's Law applies here.

Define

Also:

I am John Constantine, Town Watcher.

So, we're done arguing with scum. Anybody who's not scum, do you have any thoughts?

@ETL and Grim- we're not voting in case we're wrong, and to give {Jiffy,Reckoner} a chance to poke holes in our theory so as not to throw the game.

-Jingle

[Lying Cat]

No, Grim is already on the wagon. My scumpool is {beli, you, grim, reck}, two of whom are already on the wagon and one of whom is the subject. If I'm wrong about beli, I'm giving Jiffy a chance to show me how before I vote, so that reckscum doesn't get the option of quickhammer. Even assuming I'm right, which I am ofc, I'd rather discuss tomorrow's lynch with Jiffy without giving Beli the option of selfhammer.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Alright, one more. But only because I'm avoiding productivity.

*There's no such thing as a "gunsmith guilty." A gunsmith is not a cop.

Semantics. And irrelevant. In the setup you're selling, there are no false positives for a gunsmith.

*Gunsmith and watcher both targeting a mason results in 0 conftown; the gunsmith would know the mason to be town, "conftown" means

everybody

knows. Gunsmith and watcher targeting a mason is the same as gunsmith and watcher targeting a VT. If the gunsmith was thick enough to claim D2, the watcher could also claim for no fucking reason and say "yeah, gunsmith's claim is pretty likely", but you're stipulating a game where all the PRs just decide to out themselves D2 for no reason and the scum don't kill them because

that would make too much sense

.

Semantics. Again. "Conftown" is a shortening of "confirmed town." A player can be confirmed town from the information available to one player but not to others. An example would be an unclaimed cop with an innocent result in the newbie setup. Not all of that information has to be public to be horribly imbalanced. You are correct, however, that we're assuming a BWCS for townplay. If the players were good, they'd develop reads in thread without revealing, allowing them to potentially clear a sizeable chunk of town right before lylo and doom the scum

regardless of any in-thread play

. Even if they all immediately claimed, it would lock the scum into a predetermined set of kills. In any case, it's an obviously imbalanced setup.

*This is my first antihero game, I have no concept of his skill level.

"Don't blame me for my bad claim, it must be the mod's fault."

Besides, "I'm sure you think..." + bullshit =

child's tantrum

a rhetorical device not unlike this appeal to ridicule, not logic.

FTFY. There's no moral high ground to be claimed here.

Try reading some of my scum games. I'm better at lying than that.

"Trust me, I'm good at lying."

Woah there, nellie. "Not you" = "bad"?

There are many things I will allow you to put into my mouth. Words are not included. Give me a slow beat and we’ll break it down for you:

Spoiler:

A= Jailing Jiffy is the correct play
B= I am the player
C= Mollie is the player
D= Majiffy gets jailed
I asserted:
A
and
B implies D
You replied:
C implies not B
We counter:
C does not imply not D
Your conclusion of “Not B implies not D” does not follow from any of those.

In any case, the whole thing is irrelevant to the discussion.

"If you need something to be true or you're screwed, assume it is."; full source is in my wiki.

That might be meaningful if it were being evenly applied. As it is, you’re using it as an adorable scumshield.

How about the fact that I know Mollie better than anyone else in this game, and it's more likely she jailed AP and Beli than me?

Entirely possible. Also entirely irrelevant. The point is that part of Beli's justification for his roleclaim was that scum making suboptimal kills is the reason you're still alive, despite pretty clear evidence to the contrary.

@Grim- please respond to majiffy.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

@ Reck- Beli is:
1. Claiming to be a watcher with no usable results who believed and did not counter scumAP's gunsmith claim earlier in the game. He justifies this with "lol it could happen" and "scum know there's a watcher (because the mod told them?) because jiffy is still alive, obv."
2. Trying to get us to no lynch into a qualitatively worse lynching position, where we will lose Majiffy and he will be able to attempt a faked guilty for the second time in the game. He has justified this both with "it wouldn't work if I did it as scum" and "it will totally win town the game, guise."
3. lurkerscum who has coasted through the game this far on the back of his partner AP's ridiculous amount of noise generation.

-sthar8

[Lying Cat]

Jiffy wants you to vote grim I think. How did you feel about the summary I made for you on Beli?

I'm rereading Grim tonight and talking about him with Jingle tomorrow.

Be careful thrusting anything behind Majiffy. He gets enthusiastic.

[Lying Cat]

Yes?

[Lying Cat]

It's Grim and beli. we'll get Beli tomorrow.

VOTE: Grim

[Lying Cat]

<3 ETL. I'm at work.

[Lying Cat]

We're holding the QT hostage in exchange for the mason thread and the dead thread.

Anti, your game is totes balanced, sorry for implying otherwise.

Beli, sorry about p much all of today. No hard feelings?

P-edit us voting would have confirmed us as scum... this town was too smart for that.

[Lying Cat]

Reading the dead QT.

I was actually not planning on claiming BP at all, or doc in any situation but a poorly timed massclaim. But I'd be a poor scout leader if I didn't heed the motto, hence crumbing. I would never have claimed with mastin or thor still alive. I was afraid Grim wouldn't think Masons, JK was a too underpowered setup.

It was incredibly frustrating to have all the easy mislynches replace into strong players. I was really worried that what had been good enough play would get us caught, which is why Jingle's posting dropped off so hard. I intended to spend this game teaching, and instead got the fight of my life. I think he had fun though.

This is my first hydra game, and overall I think hydras might be kind of bullshit good for scum. Hydra dissonance is a powerful tool.

Mastin- You've got a good appreciation for associatives and dissonance scumhunting, but I think you discount the power of manipulative rhetoric.
Are we still friends?

You guys are all great, and I'd love to play with any of you again.