Mini 1566: Lunar Silver Star Story Complete (Game Over)

[Aegor]

VOTE: catboi

[Aegor]

Yes.

[Aegor]

VOTE: AJ The Epic for pessimism disguised as optimism.

[Aegor]

Because pessimism is anti-town!

[Aegor]

[align=][/align]

A few reasons, one I can't apply any more pressure than a vote and it didn't work so I backed off, I will be less likely to do this latter in the game but as of now it would probably have been a waste of time.

What does it hurt to keep the vote on? Why not vote someone else?

I've played with people like him before and his lack of actual wording or explanation is not in the slightest a scum/town tell for those players. Also since the unvote I have actually started to lean a town feel for Aegor.

For the record, once there is actual content, I will provide explanations.

No vote, no discussion of game, and no explanation of lateness. That is tempting.

catboi, confirm/deny that you are hated?

Just so this does not get forgotten.


VOTE: Hello Kitty Creampuff because annoying.

[Aegor]

To the first, it was a pointless vote at that moment and had the same effect as a no vote, so why bother keeping? At had no one else of interest at the time, I don't get this question because that seems fairly obvious, and it's not like I was avoiding taking decisive action because I placed another vote soon after.

Not really. A wagon could have formed on me and that could have been interesting. I would humbly suggest that in general, at least toward the beginning of the game, unvoting is a bad idea.

[Aegor]

Well, the last five pages were pretty fucking useless.

VOTE: PhD

Posting really does feel like newbscum throughout. Specifically, contributions that are plausible but shallow, followed by frequent OMGUS/bad votes and then immediate backpedaling (me, Aj).

Would also entertain a HKC lynch.

In other news, I feel flattered that I am being scumread.

[Aegor]

The plot thickens...

[Aegor]

VOTE: NKC

Policy lynch at this point is appropriate.

[Aegor]

I mean VOTE: HKC or VOTE: Hello Kitty Creampuff

[Aegor]

[Aegor]

^goodposting

[Aegor]

@AD

: why PhD? Specifically?

[Aegor]

catboi

: who are your top scum candidates and why?

[Aegor]

VOTE: PhD

Mac, SMP:

Vote

[Aegor]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: catboi

[Aegor]

You just noticed? Why was my catboi vote the one that prompted a vote on me from you?

[Aegor]

I would LOL if we have a PhD/Jake scumteam.

Because no one explained their vote on me and I waiting for answers. But when it looked my wagon was losing a bit of steam and you hopped onto the next one without explaining it caught my eye, so then I checked all your posts.
So any explination?

No. None of the frequent posters other than HKC really bother me or strike me as scummy. This game really is fourteen pages of nothing given that I have no knowledge or sense of meta for the many players spamposting. The ratio of votes to posts is also extremely low, so that is yet another pipeline of information closed off this game. PoE leaves only those not posting at all or posting almost nothing.

This is a curious post. You don't deny what you were doing at all.

Why would I? The accusation was entirely accurate

[Aegor]

To whomever said something about a Jake/Scar team- what prompts you to think that?

My statement was more of a joke than anything.

[Aegor]

Another P-Edit...
Awww, but I'm actually kinda thinking that though...

If either flips scum, I think there is a good chance the other is. It is just that at the moment I do not really feel either is. PhD's posting is bad but I am not really getting any scum vibes from his latest posts.

[Aegor]

Hmm... Okay! Aegor: why is HKC a policy thing?

Spamposting pisses me off and is distracting and counter-productive.

[Aegor]

Whoah. I had more votes than I thought.

Opinions on catboi and SMP please?

[Aegor]

Here, but nothing to add.

I like HKC less and less, if such is possible.

[Aegor]

How is Jake's case against HKC worthy of a vote on him? I am not following the logic here at all. It seems to me that Jake's reasons for voting HKC are pretty explicit and easy to follow.


VOTE: Scar

[Aegor]

VOTE: SMP

[Aegor]

Waiting on Aegor's reasoning for following Jake like a lost puppy

I was unaware that I was sheeping Jake, so I have little explanation. If you mean my SMP vote, it was a wagon hop and had nothing to do with who voted.

[Aegor]

So why the SMP vote then? If it had nothing to do with Jake's vote, the timing was quite coincidental.

It had everything to do with Jake's vote. It had nothing to do with Jake. I would like a wagon on SMP.

[Aegor]

Yes, Kdub, that is correct.


So I want SMP dead, and then HS. Also catboi.

[Aegor]

I am perfectly fine with my vote, but am wondering whether anyone has any strong opinions on the three leading wagons.

[Aegor]

Yes, Kdub, that is correct.


So I want SMP dead, and then HS. Also catboi.

Why do you want SMP dead?

I feel like Aegor in particular is really benefiting from all the noise in the thread.

VOTE: Jake

Lynching with {HKC, Jake, Aegor} today.

[Aegor]

*voting within

[Aegor]

Whoops. Forgot to ask you why you think I in particular am benefiting from the spam.

My reasons are simple: This game makes me sad. Killing HKC or Jake would cut the number of posts in half and make me not sad since I could actually contribute. Killing me would make me happy because it would remove me from the hell that is slogging through the posts in this thread. It is page 34 and I still have no actual reads on anyone, and I do not really think a re-read will change that. I have very little to offer here.

[Aegor]

Why is the vote awful? It is not like there was any momentum on HS.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Anti

[Aegor]

UNVOTE:

[Aegor]

VOTE: HS

GOGOGO

[Aegor]

Two more votes, people.

[Aegor]

FU, sangres. SMP was at 5 votes way earlier in the game. Where were you on that bandwagon then?

We have one day left. Please explain to us why HS should be kept alive.

[Aegor]

And why you are not willing to vote for him now.

[Aegor]

I am absolutely unwilling to move my vote from HS.

And sangres, your effort to derail the HS wagon is total shit and by far the scummiest thing that has happened in this game.

You explain why he shouldn't.

Because he has done nothing to merit continued existence in this game.

And you never addressed your conspicuous and inexplicable absence on the SMP wagon earlier.

Is there any wagon you DON'T like? I believe you've been fine with almost every wagon and have voted as such. Your vote hopping and willingness still is worrisome to say the least.

Right now? Any wagon that is not HS.

12 hours, and I'm fairly sure every question I have to ask is the following:

Why is Shroom getting lynched over SMP?
Why is Antihero lurking?

Why should SMP be lynched over shroom?

And I am expecting a really compelling reason as to why SMP is suddenly so scummy that he merits a deadline wagon, given the complete absence of any such suggestion in your posting history, which is below.

Spoiler:

So I want SMP dead, and then HS. Also catboi.

Why do you want SMP dead?

We really should be lynching hkc/smp/shroom guaranteed 2 scum in this pool

and your reasons for thinking smp and shroom could be part of a team are?

SMP is becoming a pretty distinct concern.

(such a big concern, I add, that he has not ever received a vote from sangres, including at any point during the SMP wagon).

SMP is a maybe, which could firm up tonight, but I doubt it.

His sitewide activity this week looks pretty sparse. His posts so far are troubling, though.

So forgive me for questioning the motivation and legitimacy of this deadline push.

[Aegor]

And, have you even read the past couple pages aegor? it's pretty clear why she wants smp over shroom

That is completely irrelevant to anything I was saying. It is also worth noting that said explanations occurred after the vote.

Because we weren't scumreading him earlier.

And why are you now? None of the reasons you posted involved anything that had changed between the momentum on SMP and now. You missed your chance, and it is surprising that you would not bother attempting to form a read when the wagon was viable in the first place.

He's not our strongest scumread now, but he's a hell of a lot more scummy looking to us than Shroom is.

What about shroom seems town to you?

You have zero credibility questioning anyone's vote changes in this game.

Which I never did, so there is no issue.

You've repeatedly jumped from wagon to wagon with no explanation, and yet with the clear pattern of always moving a large wagon closer to lynch.

Absolutely true.

I described it as a ratchet effect and that's what your votes have accomplished this day.

Well, feel free to lynch me tomorrow. Today, vote for HS.

[Aegor]

I probably will not be posting in this game anymore ever except to avoid prod dodges.

[Aegor]

This is a fucking shitshow.

[Aegor]

PhD, revote Shroom

[Aegor]

Are we seriously going to no lynch?

If someone is online, hammer HS.

If we NL, I am voteparking sangres until one of us is dead.

[Aegor]

Wait, NVM.

Did HKC hammer?

[Aegor]

The answer is yes. Yay!

[Aegor]

VOTE: SMP

[Aegor]

...why?

[Aegor]

Anti,

Please confirm that there is basically no chance whatsoever your action failed for any reason.

I don't have strong feelings about SMP based on his play, but I can accept an SMP lynch based on him being a counterwagon to HS/me yesterday, plus just POE since I have a lot of town reads at the moment.

Aegor, why are you voting SMP?

That's right. Can you really say you have strong feelings about someone who has barely posted (unless you are basing it on meta)?

Yes, I can. And that is actually exactly why I am voting SMP.

i'm torn cause I don't believe the claim

but antihero can't be trusted either

If you do not believe the claim, then anything anti says or does should still be irrelevant.

First of all, I don't agree and think you are nitpicking here. Secondly, even if that really were my intention, what are you trying to suggest about my motivation for doing so? If you think that's scummy, explain my scum motivation here.

Please give us your opinion of SMP at the beginning of the day in more detail than in your first post.

[Aegor]

Mod, if you would be so kind as to fix the quote tag in my last post. Thanks in advance.

[Aegor]

Jake, Anti never said that SMP was lying because of mod meta. You said Anti said that. You are talking nonsense.

[Aegor]

Did Anti say that SMP was lying because of the name of the role? No. You inferred that from his statement. It is simply not there. And unless you are claiming that Anti is mentally deficient, there is no way in hell he -- or anyone -- would use that dumb-ass argument to accuse someone of fakeclaiming.

[Aegor]

Seriously stop while you are behind. He fucking inferred it heavily. Now stfu and go away

LOL. Let me guess, your Reading SAT score was way lower than the other section(s), yes?

[Aegor]

Obviously yours is lower since you obviously can't read.

It was perfect, but w/e.

Maybe it was unintentional but anti DID infer that the claim was fake cause the mod uses vanilla cop instead of roe cop.

If anything, anti implied something. You inferred. But no. He did not state that, nor would anyone have bought that argument for a second. Again, unless you are claiming that Anti is brain-dead, he was not saying that SMP was lying because of mod meta BECAUSE THAT MAKES NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.

That's why he had to make a clarifying post that he had role related info.

It was not a clarifying post. At that point, he brought forward the actual reason that he thinks SMP is scum.

If he wasn't attempting to use mod meta, he wouldn't have brought it up in the first place. He 100% was trying to use meta and later changed his story.

He was responding to your question about a reporter.

[Aegor]

Not only did he bring it up, he linked a fucking example. THATS USING MOD META.

No, it is not, since his stated basis for disbelieving SMP has nothing to do with mod meta.

So apologize for insulting me

Uh...no.

[Aegor]

i didn't get anything indicating that it did.

Would you have, had something affected you?

[Aegor]

and he wasn't answering my question because

1. I wasn't asking anti a question, I was asking SMP

Anyone can answer your question, regardless of your desired respondent.

2. my question was about the reporter aspect of the role and not the role cop/vanilla cop
3. anti even says that smp is fake claiming vanilla cop, which actually isn't what smp was fake claiming anyway. Anti was obviously trying to use the vanilla cop angle and bork's meta for it as a way to convince people.

Yeah, probably because that was worth a shot to avoid outing himself as a PR. DUH. That still does not make it the reason that Anti disbelieves SMP's claim.

Get with the program, man.

[Aegor]

And he still was not actually using mod meta to "disprove" that SMP's claim is false, which is really fucking stupid anyhow. The linked game had that role as scum, so it remains perfectly possible that SMP is scum with that role. Which Anti and everyone else knows.

[Aegor]

*know; excuse me.

[Aegor]

I'm with the program. You insulting me for saying something didn't happen when it actually did and refusing to admit your mistake and apologizing for insulting me is bullshit

It never happened. The idea that Anti was actually using mod meta to try to disprove SMP's claim is patently absurd. Also absurd is the suggestion that he would change strategies for no reason, especially given that you have already stated you do not believe SMP's claim.

Out of curiosity, do you think that town has both a normal cop and a rolecop?

[Aegor]

BTW I am done with this conversation.

[Aegor]

bork has included multiple roleblocking roles in all of his games i've played (although in most cases it was somewhat gated/limited - xenogears had a backup JK and scum roleblocker, imperishable night had what was technically an odd-night JK/doc/roleblocker and a scum 1-shot poisoner/roleblocker and xenosaga had a JK + global roleblocker though i suppose this is arguably easier to resolve than the other two)

Yeah, and all of those involve different alignments, probably by design.


Anyway, is there any actual reason to oppose an SMP lynch?

[Aegor]

he's a claimed PR?

obvme

A claimed PR who has nothing in a game where said PR could be either alignment. Still not seeing any reason to keep him alive.

[Aegor]

*done nothing

[Aegor]

Yeah, and all of those involve different alignments, probably by design.

holy fuck, you just blew my fucking mind. i think you might be on to something here.

what it is you're on to, i don't really know, because that seems like it had nothing to do with what i was saying, but keep up the good detective work

[Aegor]

honestly, though, if he were scum, I don't see why he would make such a weird fake-claim.

Pedit: I've Pulled 10 times my weight in this game, fuck off

Which is why I do not believe that the role is a fakeclaim.

[Aegor]

aegor has been one of the most useless people in the game, wish I had a day kill for realz

Yeah, that is really too bad, since I probably will never be NKed either.

[Aegor]

ooooh, you got me. Everyone, jump off of SMP.

[Aegor]

nah we can get your partner today and you tomorrow

kk. I will save you the time of doing your research: If SMP flips scum, go ahead and use my push for HS' wagon over SMP's at the end of Day 1 as reason for voting me.

[Aegor]

VOTE: AJ

[Aegor]

LOLOLOLOL

It sounds like someone a cheesy 80s action movie hero would say.

No thanks.

[Aegor]

So you think AJ will flip town? Really?

[Aegor]

Really? Where is the confirmation?

[Aegor]

And if HKC and I are the remaining two scum, then how could AJ's flip be a coin flip?

[Aegor]

Why should I vote HKC over AJ?

[Aegor]

You? Please.

And if we are judging his hop-off as scummy, then it is nullified by his hammer (both bad reasons for alignment assessment). And the same reasoning could apply to you, what with your apparent attempts to derail the wagon by voting me, questioning Anti's claim, implying that sangres was fakeclaiming (I guess now my question as to why the hydra outed has been answered), randomly posting about AJ, etc.

[Aegor]

My voting you wasn't an attempt to derail the wagon but a OMG this guy is so scum he needs to be lynched also

Why would you derail a lynch wagon on someone you find is scum to be the first vote on someone else you think is scum? That makes very little sense from a strategic perspective.

Anti and his play has been sketchy and I still don't trust him

i.e. he bussed his partner by creating a fakeclaim that conflicted with his partner's fakeclaim?

The possibility of sangres was possible and outing the claim was still dumb, not to mention the choice of target was equally dumb.

Outing the claim was the correct move, since it guaranteed that the result was public but came at no real risk to the town because the slot was a 1-shot cop.

So yeah. Hkc will flip scum.

Why are you more confident in HKC than in AJ?

[Aegor]

I already said it wasn't an attempt to derail the wagon. Next

Except any removal of votes on a wagon are inherently a derailment, whether intended or not.

I've seen scum claim cop and his partner cc him and then the real cop claim. So yeah scum are stupid sometimes.

So Anti could still be fakeclaiming scum, correct?

Cause AJ hasn't done anything scummy and hkc hasn't done anything townie

At this point in the game, I think it is fair to say that those who have not done anything town should be under suspicion. What has AJ done that is clearly town? What has HKC done that is clearly scum? You seem to have a level of conviction that is not merited by the evidence you have put forward.

[Aegor]

No it's not

By definition, yes.

AJ has done nothing clearly town.

Do you find this acceptable at this point in the game?

Every single thing hkc has done is scummy with no town motivation behind any of it.

Oh, I am convinced!

Res hactenus arcanae illuminatae sunt!

Plus even if somebody could convince me not to vote hkc, there is 0 chance I'd lynch anyone you told me to lynch.

What about someone I happen to be voting?

[Aegor]

Link?

Check the dictionary definition for figurative usage; your answer lies there.

Last game I remember of his he was useless

Was he town?

If I have a reason to vote someone and you vote that's different than listening to you

I just wanted to make sure.

[Aegor]

If hkc isn't getting lynched I'm just gonna cruise control it.

See you guys Later

Did you not very recently give me major shit for saying the same thing yesterday?

[Aegor]

Jake, what are you on about? I pushed for an SMP lynch in the middle of Day 1.

[Aegor]

And your Messiah Complex is rather irritating. I may vote you soon just so I do not need to deal with you any longer.

[Aegor]

I said smp or shroom were the only ones I'd consider

. So yeah, I did more to lynch scum than anyone else including you and sangres...P.edit -

aegor voting someone doesn't mean you actually did anything to catch scum

. You been vote hoping for little to no reasons all game.

You are so full of crap. I explained why I thought SMP's lurking was scumtastic. Moreover, even if I had not, that still means you did jack shit to catch scum. You tell me I did nothing except vote and then hold yourself up as an exemplar because you...voted for SMP? LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

[Aegor]

Did you miss where I combed through like 4 games on another site and their other game here?

Yeah go fuck yourself

And yet somehow, other people independently suspected SMP without wasting time by reading your posts...

[Aegor]

Aegor, in light of Aj's replace-out, are you still reading that slot as scum? Why or why not?

Yes, although now obviously the replacement may lessen that read.

[Aegor]

Wow.

Well, my lynch pool for today is {AJ, Mac, HKC}. The HKC is mainly because I find that hydra's play incredibly irritating and my read on it is at best null.

If anyone strongly believes that Mac or AJ is town, please make your case. At this point, I fail to see any reason whatsoever to let two slots that have produced nothing of substance (or, in Mac's case, a defense of scum and nothing else except unexplained flip-flopping on the Day 1 HS) by Day 3 live.

[Aegor]

Or it could be scum voting and then freaking out when the votes started piling on unexpectedly quickly.

[Aegor]

It is not a bus unless there is intent to lynch. Being the third vote on a wagon does not, to me, necessarily indicate intent to lynch when 6 votes are needed. That was the third post of the entire day.

[Aegor]

The vote being distancing would be consistent with my suggestion as well.

[Aegor]

These are the posts where you vote Aj and suggest that he is scum. No reason is given until 1402, where you seem to be saying that you suspect Aj because he hasn't done anything town. So now that we know he was inactive because of RL stuff, why do you still read that slot as scum?

I do not

know

anything other than AJ replaced out for what I assume are RL reasons. That tells me nothing about the reason for his inactivity earlier in the game. Moreover, I see no reason to wait this long if RL has been preventing activity since the start of the game. Finally, one can be generally inactive and yet still post constructively, which AJ has not done.

[Aegor]

aegor -

I don't see anything pro-town from AJ's slot

, but I don't see anything overy scummy either. What is your case on him?

Voilà.

[Aegor]

Mod, please see the post above this one and clarify whether posting bitchy and sarcastic remarks constitutes a breach of respect.

[Aegor]

Btw that actually wasn't sarcasm. I'm dead serious about using your logic for AJ means all those people I named would be scum. None of those people have done anything I perceive as pro-town

Well, I do not give a shit about your perceptions because your entire play has been real fucking shitty and you are negative utility and I am tempted to excise you from this game like the malignant tumor you are. So I would recommend that you shut the fuck up.

[Aegor]

My play has been shitty but I handed people scum on a silver platter.

YOU DID NO SUCH THING

I do not know what the fuck is causing this delusion to persist; but I still do not even know what you posted about SMP. Yet I voted him in the middle of Day 1 based on my own independent suspicions. Your statement amounts to an assertion that anyone who says someone is scum at any point for any reason whatsoever is "handing people scum on a silver platter," regardless of how many other people already believe that person is scum.

I ask you for a case on AJ cause your push looks like a policy lynch and you essentially confirm that it is a policy lynch and then have the audacity to insult me?

The case is that he has not posted anything pro-town and it is Day 3. That is my case. If you want to call that a policy lynch, fine. I do not give a shit what you call it.

[Aegor]

VOTE: ActionDan

[Aegor]

trololololololol

[Aegor]

But seriously, Mac must die.

[Aegor]

squirrel, why did you feel the need to defend your predecessor's actions?

Presumably squirrel has an interest in her slot's survival, hence an interest in defending her predecessor's actions to the extent she is able.


VOTE: Mac

1) I didn't defend scum
2) I didn't flip-flop on HS without clearly showing my thought process
3) I can prove at least one of us is town!

1) Chainsaw defense in posts 280 and 340. You mention SMP as a "concern" in post 582, but that unsurprisingly leads nowhere. You mention also that Jake's case is legit enough to make you think of SMP scum, but this also goes nowhere. Then you go back to voting HS, who had been tunneling SMP. You express your belief that SMP is more likely scum than Anti, but this goes nowhere. You do not post again for 5-6 days because, according to you, your V/LA.

2) I found the explanation you offered after revoting HS totally uncompelling, especially since the tunnel and naked vote accusations could be leveled with equal validity against many other players.

[Aegor]

I hope not, since that is pretty terrible play in general.

[Aegor]

I think you're confusing a chainsaw defense on SMP with my scumread on HS.

I am asserting that your attack on HS is not actually because you scumread him but was at least in part a chainsaw.

At the time, you didn't call neither a chainsaw defense and it appears like you're using a scumflip to your advantage 'cause you've found a link between me and SMP.

Are you suggesting that I ignore the scumflip? If not, then I fail to see how it is inappropriate to use newly-acquired information to interpret prior events.

[Aegor]

VOTE: HKC

Other lynch candidates are {Mac, SG}. SG has done nothing to counter AJ's lurky scumminess.

Am not liking KDub based on gut -- does anyone have a townread on him?

[Aegor]

AJ did actually replace out - that sort of makes his lurk probably honest regardless of if he was scum or town. Is there any scum case on him besides lurking? Because I don't think that's much of a case to throw at someone who replaced out.

1) This game started just over a month ago. At no point was AJ not lurking. His recent replace out does not address the several weeks of no content.
2) People who lurk produce little/no content, and therefore you question about whether there is any other scum case is impossible to answer, since other scum cases require content, of which AJ has deprived us.

[Aegor]

We need to start consolidating on a lynch.

[Aegor]

1. And yet it does.

No. Just no.

2. So your case is that he was lurking because he was scum. And that he replaced out...because he was scum really committed to selling the lurking as legit?

No, my case is that he was scum-lurking and then replaced out. You speak as if it is impossible for someone to scum-lurk and then replace out legitimately. That has a stark false dichotomy.

[Aegor]

Was he lurking because he was busy or was he lurking as a strategy to win?

Either is possible.

If the latter - why did he replace out, since his posting activity seemed in line with his strategy?

Because RL commitments prevented any participation whatsoever (in-thread, in-QT, etc.), or any other number of possible reasons.

If it's the former - how can you tell it was scummy as opposed to townish lurking?

Lurking is never townish.


VOTE: Mac

Jake, if you fucking mention your "single-handed" handing-over of SMP again, I will votepark you.

[Aegor]

KDub and Mac are definitely not both town. Just saying.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Jake

[Aegor]

Jake, why, after all this time, would you bring up muffin again? Why could it not be WIFOM?

[Aegor]

I kind of want to replace out of this game unless Jake is lynched today.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Mac

Everyone voting someone with 1 vote should move, now.

[Aegor]

HKC, vote Jake in your next post, otherwise I am not voting him again today.

Frankly, I want him gone regardless of alignment because his continued presence is detrimental to town, but w/e.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Jake

[Aegor]

Jake, if you fucking mention your "single-handed" handing-over of SMP again, I will votepark you.

[Aegor]

Did you come to this conclusion based on our last exchange? Explain please.

Feels like you are trying to set up another lynch if one of us flips town

.

Yes.

[Aegor]

You know you want this dead. Vote Jake, people.

[Aegor]

The only people who should be policy lynched is you and aegor for violating the mods rules and warnings. I'm pretty pissed at the mod for not punishing aegor but policy lynching me is a fucking riot.

As far as I am aware, I broke no rules and violated no warnings. Why would I then deserve any punishment?

I correctly identified scum before anyone else. I made a great case on smp before anyone else. Sure I had doubts at times like I do with every lynch, but ultimately I was right. I'm not going to be a liability at lylo. You, aegor, and hkc are the fucking liability cause the 3 of you combined did less than I have done this game when it comes to finding scum. Sure aegor wants to claim he was partly responsible for smp but he fucking sheeped me day 1 and didn't do dick til day 2 when he sheeped sangres.

I never said I was responsible for SMP. I said that your effort contributed exactly nothing in my suspicion of SMP. I did not even know you were voting him because I never paid attention to any of your posts after like page 3 until the last five pages or so, and only then because you are so insufferable.

So you 3 can go take a long walk off a short pier cause I'm the only one who made a case for smp scum. Anti gets partial credit for role blocking him and catching him in a lie, but nobody else gets credit for being sheep.

I stated my reasons for voting SMP. And the suggestion that your case was somehow more damning than Anti's work is laughable.

[Aegor]

Nobody has shown how they reached their conclusions based on facts of the game. People pushing Mac need to show why Mac/smp make sense. People pushing hkc needs to show why they make sense.

Those pushing lynches now need only show that [player]/SMP is plausible.

[Aegor]

You bolded the wrong part, and you didn't explain anything. Unless you are admitting that you are simply trying to set up my/Mac's lynch on future days?

The second one. I definitely bolded the right part.

[Aegor]

Oh, and I say we lynch Jake. Would be willing to lynch Mac as well, if the wagon swings that way.

[Aegor]

Actually, if Jake is not going to be lynched, please just lynch me.

[Aegor]

Stop doing this. If you are town this is one of the worst posts I have seen. Seriously now, articulate your stance or replace out because you can't handle Jake being a meanie-pants, but don't make weird emotional blackmail demands.

I am willing to tolerate Jake's pathetic abuse. I am not willing to tolerate his cancerous effect on this game.

But, yes, if we collectively agree to ignore every single thing Jake says, I will vote Mac.

[Aegor]

I don't mean to sound weird about this but; if reading his posts is so upsetting to you, maybe you should just replace out and not play in games with a player that brings you to a boil so easily? As an alternate option, drink some chamomile tea or something, get a stress ball maybe? There is no reason for two adults to be unable to converse with each other in a game of Mafia. I get that the two of you disagree on points - hip-hooray! That doesn't mean name calling and chest beating are the only solutions. I think you're both likely town, I am also of the opinion that the entire battle between you is pretty disruptive and bad and is a negative effect for town, and is based on both of you just being peevish at the other. I'm finding you the more frustrating of the pair, because it feels like you're egging on his outbursts, which is fueling a wagon on him - a wagon whose case is "We find Jake obnoxious, hurr, he must be scum!" which is a case I'm very much against.

SG, we must be operating in different realities. In the one I happen to be occupying, Jake, unprovoked, started insulting other players, calling them worthless, erroneously asserting that they violated the rules, and dismissed any contributions they had made to the game while engaging in revisionist propaganda that described his valiant and precise crusade against scum that all of the unwashed sheeply could only follow with no reasons of their own.

Forgive me for not wanting to engage with said player, especially when his posts have nothing of interest in them anyway. Forgive me also for firmly suggesting that a player who is not easily upset by reading posts could still choose to ignore said player.

[Aegor]

@Jake:

For someone who is saying that everyone else is doing jack shit, maybe you should read your own posts:

You can't really get anything based off interactions

because SMP only mentioned scar 3 times day 1 and scar never mentioned smp. The only other thing nagging at me is smp never mentioned the ??? votes moving around until the ??? vote ended up on Scar and then he pointed it out. It's all gut so obviously it's nothing concrete but that reaction reads like confused/nervous scum.

The bolded holds true for most players other than muffin as well. Also, what the fuck are you talking about? When SMP first mentioned the ??? vote (581), the ??? vote was on SMP.

And that is IMO a much, much more tenuous case than the legitimate case against Mac, who

still

has not engaged in any scumhunting since the beginning of the game. Oh, and he was on the HS wagon but not the SMP one.

[Aegor]

VOTE: Mac

[Aegor]

SG: If I have sorted someone and their posts are otherwise devoid of interesting content, what is the problem with skimming, exactly?

[Aegor]

the same could be said for AJ

but only one of mac/AJ can be scum

Do you think both are town? I cannot see that happening, so I say we just lynch Mac today and lynch AJ tomorrow if Mac flips town.

[Aegor]

i mean i suppose you could argue squirrel girl is doing scum hunting here but i don't think she really is. it looks more like she is trying to get on people's good sides and be friends with everybody than it looks like someone trying to figure out the game

It really could be either. I would say most players in this game are guilty of not trying to figure out the game, myself included.

[Aegor]

Exactly. They are not both town. So why not lynch Mac today?

[Aegor]

We have almost no time left and I do not want us to be scrambling for votes hours before deadline. Vote soon. Thanks.

[Aegor]

Aegor is the only player who I have more than minimal suspicion of because his voting patterns and lack of explanations are anti-town.

I am sorry, this is just completely untrue. I have been very clear on my suspicions and why they exist.

I see no town motivation in this behavior, and the fact that he's continued to do it is on all of us for not holding him accountable.

There is nothing to hold me accountable for. I have been clear about why Mac and the AJ slot are both good lynches. You act as if other players are providing solid cases that I am ignoring in favor of shitvotes. That is simply not true: I have yet to see what I would consider a case more compelling or thorough than my case on Mac. You are more than welcome to point me in the direction of one if you disagree.

Part of the problem is that some players decided that it would be a good idea to shitpost for like 30 pages, reducing motivation to slog through anything other than the end-of-day wagons.

[Aegor]

I call BS

Looking at all of your votes the only ones where you may your suspicions clear are

I never said that I explained all of my votes. I said that I have explained my suspicions.

All your other votes were no reason, sheeping, or policy lynching.

Yeah, and votes =/= suspicions.

interesting fact, not including your RVS you voted 21 times and you have only provided reasoning for Scar (aka muffin) and Mac. Your HKC votes were all policy lynch votes as were the votes for me.

Great. So it sounds like I did explain my suspicions sufficiently that you are able to distinguish policy votes from actual, substantiated votes. By the way, I also provided reasoning for the AJ/SG slot.

[Aegor]

Sure, you can point to some of your votes that you have justified, but shall I quote the multitude of other ones that were not?

Why? I never denied their existence. More important, their existence is of no consequence.

The most recent example was your vote on Jake, which you basically straight up said was a policy lynch.

What is the problem, exactly?

[Aegor]

@Muffin:

Your post makes me want to lynch Mac more and then lynch you if he flips scum, which I think he will. Also, we can always lynch AJ tomorrow.

[Aegor]

the horror

[Aegor]

^in response to 1787

again, if mac IS town and AJ-slot IS scum, there's a lot more benefit to lynching SG first

That is a big if.

[Aegor]

I had an AJ boner earlier; it went flaccid because others did not seem interested.

Mac's posting is essentially fluff. I see no incisive commentary, lack of active engagement, and horrible attitudes toward both the HS and the SMP wagons.

SG can die tomorrow.

[Aegor]

i.e. I am not seeing whatever enormous difference between AJ and Mac you are seeing.

[Aegor]

1) Naked votes are not bad. Having nothing but naked votes is bad.
2) The point of policy lynches is that they are pro-town regardless of the target's alignment. There is a fallacious assumption in your argument that the only pro-town lynches are on scum.

[Aegor]

ISO me and search for Mac in my recent posts.

[Aegor]

=======[}

[Aegor]

I am fine with massclaim. I am not fine with Mac not getting lynched today.

I have never understood this. If you are policy lynching town, that's one whole fucking mislynch gone all because you don't like said player, or there playing style. I find it rather shitty, to be honest. And certainly not pro-town.

Policy lynches can theoretically hit scum, too. And they reduce the chance of later problems by eliminating them now.

1) Does nothing to counter my point. Naked votes are not always objectively bad, but they're pretty much always worse than justified votes. Again, this feels like a self-meta defense.

Interpret however you want. I have explained my actual suspicions; my naked votes are exploratory 90% of the time.

2) Why is lynching Jake pro-town? Just because he annoys you doesn't make him a liability.

Because he will screw up the game.

[Aegor]

I would be willing to lynch HKC if no other option is available.

I see no reason whatsoever to let Mac live. I do not believe his claim, and he has stated explicitly that he will not confirm it either. Anyone stating that this would entail an auto-lynch tomorrow is just delusional. Please explain to me how letting him live is a good idea.

[Aegor]

Mac claimed non-consecutive who protected on N2, so he couldn't confirm tonight even if he wanted to.

All the more reason to annihilate him today.

[Aegor]

We do not have time for that shit, Jake.

VOTE: SG

The fact that Mac is not dying today is a travesty.

[Aegor]

know you disagree with me about the SMP thing but I do know for 100% certain nobody would have been talking about him day 2 if I hadn't made a big stink about him day 1.

Given that there was a huge-ass wagon on him Day 1, shut the fuck up.

[Aegor]

Oh, and I am a VT.

[Aegor]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: HKC

[Aegor]

I feel...liberated, as if from shackles.


Anyway, Mac obviously needs to die:

1) Miller claim like Day 3, which conveniently preempts cop investigations. Doc claim that could potentially never have been verified since he refused to protect the one person who could have verified. Who knows what the position will be today.
2) Conspicuous absence from the SMP wagon
3) Votes HKC after defending the slot and then putting it into the scumpile for no reason. Then unvotes for no real reason and does not revote.

The only way I will consider not lynching Mac today is if all players agree that he is lynched tomorrow if the Jake/pie slot does not verify his protect.

[Aegor]

BRO, decide claim order please.

[Aegor]

Also, someone please remind me how BRO is cleared.

[Aegor]

Also, unless Jake is some bussing mastermind on a very strategic scum team, that slot is town.

[Aegor]

Jesus Christ. Pre-empting the cop

THAT HAS ALREADY FLIPPED

is my scum strategy?

I thought this was a closed setup. Did the rules state somewhere that we are limited to a single cop investigation the whole game? If not, then tais-toi STP.

And I'm sure you would waste a protect on Jake from State Farm too! No really, I believe you!

I would hardly consider confirming myself a waste of time. Tell me, how many kills have you prevented so far? I would love to hear how usefully you have been using your protects.

Cool. Like that's a scumtell.

Cool. Never said it was per se.

Oh wow. My stance was clear on HKC; I thought their "Mac's probably town" and then intent to hammer was a scummy as fuck move, and clearly I was right. I unvoted to try and work with my strongest townreads who were not on HKC. Meanwhile, you tiptoed around the HKC wagon, voted SG and then hammered for what looked to me and SG like a blatant attempt at towncred once you realised the wagon wasn't going to go through.

Obviously the wagon was not going to go through. HKC was at L-1 without my vote and SG was at L-2 with my vote. Why would I stay on SG with the deadline looming? That makes no sense whatsoever.

...the fucking cop innocent and confirmed flip, perhaps?

Great; so he is not actually cleared.

[Aegor]

Claiming flavor is useless because bork provides flavor fakeclaims for all scum. I would know, I was SK in his last game.


So, course of action is clear:

Mac

: There is absolutely no reason whatsoever given the current claims not to confirm himself tonight by protecting penguin because there are no better PRs to protect. There is consequently no need to lynch Mac today unless he refuses to play to his wincon.

Regardless of what happens today, BRO cannot last until lylo. He must be lynched before then in case he is a GF or something, which will mess up town psych in lylo.

I would say I was a pretty obvious designated mislynch, I think both HKC (well...duh) and Aegor were the scum who attempted it.

Maybe you should be less arrogantly presumptuous and not declare yourself a designated mislynch in part because you think an unflipped player is scum? Just a thought.


I would be down for lynching {BRO, Kdub} and maybe {muffin}.

[Aegor]

I don't think that's much of an arrogant stretch on my part, I don't even think there's any arrogance at all, really.

Given that it relies on the

presumption

that I am scum, you think incorrectly.

I also find the desire to lynch BRO at this stage, from you, pretty iffy. Is there a case on him besides "may be a GF put into game to weaaken 1-shot cop along with the Miller Doc" Because...that seems like a *real* stretch of a case from my perspective.

Maybe it is more the fact that a "confirmed" inno has survived this long without doing anything and does not even respond to requests to do so.

Also, is there a case for scumMuffin? I don't really see one at this juncture, and actually think he did okay with his meta defense of his play with me yesterday,

Purely meta. Kdub/BRO should both die first.

I am telling you, BRO should not be in lylo.

[Aegor]

Honestly, I'm not even sure why you're so okay with me at this juncture. By the time you're calling for a BRO lynch because "Godfather fear!" I would sort of think that ol' Nutsy McSexytail would have to be a possible scum candidate at that stage too - but I'm not even mentioned. It's weird. Your reads are weird. I think it's because you're scum.

w/e. That kind of comment is not helpful. If you want to tunnel me, fine. I have no expectation of surviving later than tomorrow. But I would not put all of your eggs in my basket, because it will end badly for you and for the town.

And your posting seems town. Muffin slot is POE.

[Aegor]

I do not disagree that his play thus far appears rather sub-par from what I would hope that a confirmed innocent, and now claimed VT would do for town. But I don't think that makes him scum.

I never said it made him scum. I said it cast enough doubt on his alignment that he should not be allowed anywhere near lylo, since it will mess up the remaining town(ies).

Serious question, do you really think that all of the following exist in the game?

1 shot Cop

Miller
Godfather

Yes, very possibly. And even if I did not, my primary scumspects include the relevant players.

Because, that's pretty much a "up yers with a banana" to town as far as that cop goes.

Your point being?

So, for BRO to be a GF, I would then say Mac *has* to be lying...but if Mac is lying, then we're arguing that there are 4 scum, and town's powers barely exist.

I totally disagree, because Millers can claim in their first post.

But, a 1-shot cop weakened by a Miller/Doc? Yeah, that one makes sense to me.

Why do you so strongly disagree?

Because Mac's play has been incredibly scummy.

[Aegor]

And just so we are absolutely clear, in no way is my reason for believing that anyone is scum based on roleclaims.

[Aegor]

Aegor's too good a player to be going down this rabbit hole

That sincerely means a lot to me; thank you. Normally I am told that I suck ass, etc.

For the record, I am not advocating for BRO's lynch today, necessarily (although I would not oppose it). I just do not think he should be allowed to live to lylo.

but a miller with a one-shot cop is equally improbable. I'd lynch Aegor or Mac and take it from there.

If town is actually, really, totally 100% on board with lynching Mac tomorrow if he does not confirm his role to you/penguin tonight, then lynching him today is kind of a waste. Kdub has been tunneling me all game.

VCA off the last two lynches makes the muffin slot, BRO, and Mac look bad. Kdub comes across decently; SG probably looks the best.

[Aegor]

Spoilered posts were interesting to me.

Re-reading Day 3 was less interesting that I hoped it would be.

BRO is still iffy to me for the reasons mentioned.

muffin I guess looks worse because of focus on arguing with Jake rather than actually scumhunting.

My feelings on Mac are clear.

SG is much townier than AJ; she is no longer high on my list.

Spoiler:

The HKC is mainly because I find that hydra's play incredibly irritating and my read on it is at best null.

i feel some of the things i've read from them looked a bit more likely to come from town than scum

like if the plan yesterday was to bus SMP, then unvoting doesn't make a lot of sense - i could see town being uncertain here, wanting to evaluate things (for example, the "why the fuck did AD die?" stuff, while not exactly hard to fake as scum, gave me mild town vibes because of the way it was brought up and not really harped on about) but scum going "LOL BUS TIME" then a few posts later going "NO WAIT, NOT BUS TIME!" is kinda weird

I kinda just want to sheep confirmed town-BRO at this point, but he's not doing much either.

I looked at Aj/SG/Mac ISOs again, and didn't have any big revelations. I still thought Aj's D1 stuff felt town, and his lack of activity later seems understandable due to RL stuff. SG has been OK so far. The biggest issues I see are Mac accusing SG of misrepping his lack of activity in her summary of the neighborhood (which SG responded to and Mac hasn't countered yet), and Aj basically saying "I don't care about this game, my claim will save me anyway" and Mac just accepting that (which is weird, but I don't see obvious scum motivation either way). I'd probably pick SG as town between the two of them if it came down to it.

VOTE: HKC

Every time I start suspecting Aegor because he makes some bad posts, he says something that gives me a gut town feel. Then he makes more bad posts and I start suspecting him again. Hate his HKC vote here, just like I've hated a lot of his vote hops this game.

I'm thinking one scum in Aj/Mac, the other in HKC/Aegor

, with an outside chance of Muffin-scum and a very very outside chance of Jake/Anti as scum.

VOTE: Aegor for now, at least until Mac gets here and he and SG figure out who's misrepping what.

Am I correct in inferring from your posts this game that you no longer think that AJ/Mac necessarilycontains scum?

/not hammering

I might, though after SG answers me

[Aegor]

And I counter that for him to even begin to be scum, Mac would really need to be scum too

- and I don't think Mac is scum, and I certainly don't think there are four scum.

And I reject that conditional, which is based on your setup spec, which I also reject

ex stirpe

.

I don't think it has. I also don't think you've shown anything to support this claim.

Mac's ISO is devoid of incisive scumhunting content and I posit that his reactions toward both scum wagons have been scummy. I already stated this.


Flavorclaim: I am Lemia Ausa, aligned with the Magic Guild. I am a headmistress (VT), [flavortext].

[Aegor]

And your setup spec is that there's a 1 shot cop who is hamstrung by both a miller and a GF because...town has so much power what with their 1 shot cop, self watcher, and non-consecutive night Doc?

No; my setup spec is that such a setup is not worth dismissing as impossible.


And IDC about the popcorn flavor claim. Someone just do it. Alphabetically or w/e.

[Aegor]

here will post later today or tomorrow

[Aegor]

My motivation for this game is almost nonexistent and I have very little else to contribute. This is where I would vote myself, but I actually care a little bit about the outcome of this game, so I will force others to do so.

I am happy to answer any questions or provide specific analysis, but it is unlikely I will go through the game and post a case or anything similar unless circumstances change.

[Aegor]

I still maintain with steadfast conviction that Mac should confirm himself by protecting penguin or else be lynched tomorrow.

Why mastin, KDub? Could you elaborate on your "known scum" comment in 2002?

[Aegor]

Will post later tonight.

[Aegor]

I am fine with a Kdub lynch for reasons that I have definitely thought before and (I believe) have posted before.

I still feel extremely uncomfortable with Mac, but that will sort itself out tonight. Still think BRO should die. Mastin kind of makes me uncomfortable as well, especially given the slot's previous occupants.

Realistically, I would lynch {Kdub, mastin2}.

[Aegor]

POE narrows down my scumspects to Kdub and Mastin (other than BRO/Mac). And the slot has not been doing much for me in general, so IDK.

[Aegor]

So...lurking? I think she has been doing more than Penguin or BRO or Mac, no?

Heck, at least from my perspective Mastin is one of the top two or so active posters in the game.

Active posting does not make me townread someone. Not posting does make me scumread them. I do not think mastin has been scumhunting at all, no.

Again, Kdub or mastin for me.

[Aegor]

Nope. You do not misunderstand me at all.


VOTE: KDub = L-1

[Aegor]

More specifically, mastin has just been posting tons of "analysis" that is actually more IIoA and then saying that it vaguely leads to feelings that someone is somehow scummy, but no more specificity can be provided, of course.

[Aegor]

Kdub, would you be willing to vote mastin? I am happy to vote mastin. If you vote, I will follow.

[Aegor]

Still here. Nothing to add.

[Aegor]

Someone please hammer one of us, or I will hammer myself.

[Aegor]

I am not waiting that long.

[Aegor]

Hammering in like an hour.

[Aegor]

BC, how long will you take for you to get a hold on the game? We have two equal wagons (you are on one) and PA is the swing vote.

I am getting antsy so I still intend to self-hammer unless I feel like there is further content this game-day.

[Aegor]

proddodge while waiting for BC

[Aegor]

Aegor I need you to explain the disconnect between post 521 where you said you saw jake vote and post 1728 where you said you didn't even know Jake voted them.

Do they refer to the same Jake vote? If so, then clearly my memory is bad, hence 1728.

Also, you only have like 6 posts pertaining to Hello Kitty. Can you explain that?

What is there to explain? I searched for HKC in my ISO and found more than enough to determine my opinion of that slot. If there is something specific you are wondering about, let me know.

[Aegor]

They were annoying. Second, they did not do much I found particularly scummy. My increasing suspicion was largely due to their complete lack of proactive town posting. This is why I was willing to vote them for so long and I ultimately did. See 222, 246, etc.

[Aegor]

Can we please lynch someone?

[Aegor]

Please, someone, just vote. We have 18 hours left and at this rate, I am actually worried about a NL, which would probs make me shit myself in anger given how long this day has lasted already.

[Aegor]

Result, penguin?

[Aegor]

Or scum did not NK

[Aegor]

Agreed. A recap of claims/results would be nice.

[Aegor]

Mac is still my fave for a lynch though.

[Aegor]

k.

Just to make sure I remember correctly, BRO is supposedly clear because of the cop inno? I remember thinking he was maybe a GF.


Also, I am having trouble coming up with reasons why there was a NK. I do not understand why scum would target penguin, knowing that Mac was going to protect him or get lynched today for sure. Why not guarantee a kill by taking care of Mac? I suppose this allows scum to WIFOM around Mac, as he has suggested, but it still does not make much sense when scum could have killed someone else with impunity.

[Aegor]

Anyone have strong thoughts about who should be lynched?

[Aegor]

penguin, why are mastin and beast slots town?

[Aegor]

I think I may want to lynch mastin.

[Aegor]

Penguin, please tell me you are not townreading mastin based on meta.


VOTE: Mac

[Aegor]

What is your hunch?

[Aegor]

That plan seems fine to me.

[Aegor]

That post has actually reminded me that I'm not actually non-consec (neighborhood knows this) but 2 shot - I bluffed non-consec hoping too catch someone out n3 but opted not to use it cos I thought you all might want me to prove myself at some point.

May we please lynch Mac now?

[Aegor]

Is there any vehement opposition to lynching Mac? Where is everyone?

[Aegor]

Say you lynch me, and I flip town. What happens next?

[Aegor]

Good to know.

Fine with Mac lynch. My only hesitation was if mastin had some other suspect. Since that is not the case, leggo.

[Aegor]

Do yourself and favor and address that possibility today before lynching me.

[Aegor]

But the fact that Mac cannot even claim his supposed role straight should be setting off alarms for all of y'all.