Mini 1563 - Vampire: The Masquerade Mafia (Fourth Evening)

[d3x]

And away we go.

@Kthx- Who should die 1st?

[d3x]

@Spyrex- How much are you willing to MassClaim to figure it out?

[d3x]

We could make our diablerie noms public, someone keep a count and agree that everyone nominate the player with the most diablerie votes. As long as it's adhered to we minimize ghoulscum influence on the diablerie action?

I'd like to table this until we decide on what exactly to do with the Partial/Full Claiming has been settled. Even if the discussion's over, I don't think it's something that needs to be decided until we're at the point when it matters. Things may have changed landscape-wise by the time it comes up.

On the Claiming topic, clans were asked for and I saw some people saying stuff in my phone skim earlier today. I'm not familiar enough with the game to know right offhand, but from my PM, it seems my clan is either Tremere or The Library? That doesn't sound right, but it says I'm associated with the library, so I figure it's a thing.

Kagami's p17 feels odd to me. The discussion about publically nom'ing for diablerie didn't have to do with anything Role related, but she's against it b/c it outs PRs. This is in direct contradiction to the beginning of the post where he says she's a PR. I don't see how saying point blank 'I have multiple powers' sits properly within the same post.

I think I see what you might be doing here

What do you think I might be doing here?

Bothers me that he does not know what we are called? Either he has really bad reading comprehension skills as it's everywhere on this page that the "town" faction are called vampires and those trying to kill is during the day are ghouls ooooooorrrrr, it didn't cross his mind how obv this was as his role PM is different from mine.

I may come back to this later, but it feels kind of forced and 'dudes, I know what we're called'. I don't think that's what SG was referring to when she asked what we're called.

Why did you not throw down an RVS vote on me? It is out of the norm for your recent town games when we are both in the game from the start for you to not RVS vote me.

This is funny to me. I looked it up and sure enough, the last 2-3 games where I was Scum, I didn't RVS you. I think it had more to do with me not being here for the RVS, but w/e. You can throw it in with the p32 ScumTell.

@SG- Are you a Human {nonVampire} or do you just detect that way?

I really dislike Aronis's p26. Not only does he ignore SG's arguably very important question, he drops what could very easily be a FakeClaim propted by 3 RVS Votes {given, some may be legit, but still...}, HandWaves the flavor while ignoring someone else's assertion that it matters, and adds nothing to the conversation. This is a scummy floater post if I've ever seen one.

------------------------------------------------------------

Eh... it's only the remainder of the page, but I feel like it's going to take me longer than I'm willing to put in at 2am. I'll finish tomorrow night...

[d3x]

I have an opinion about something else. Flavour claim makes me unvote

This is odd to me. Aronis didn't flavor Claim, he NameClaimed. Why exactly did this make you back down? Aside from that, why say you have an opinion about something else and then end your post? What was the opinion and what was it on? Did it refer to a ScumRead? If so, why no Vote anywhere? In short, what was the purpose in telling us you had an opinion on something without telling us what the opinion was? Finally, why haven't you followed up on it?

I have some strong beliefs about a few players' alignments, but I'd like for everyone to check in before I place a srs biz vote.

Is this SOP for you?

My vote would go on him, but I dont like d3x not rvsing me like he has done in the most recent games we have been in together. That is more concerning to me at the moment as it is opposite the norm town him.

Can I thus assume your RVS Vote is for serious, then? Humor me, at what point exactly did it become for serious?

I'd be surprised if we have vanilla vampires

When did you make this assessment?

It's neither incredibly obvious nor necessarily accurate that town are all vampires, which makes aronis's confusion reasonable enough that to attack it is unwarranted.

While this is more-or-less true, I'd still prefer to have Aronis answer SG's original question.

I detect as Human, as stated. I did not indicate whether I was or wasn't Human, Vampire, or anything else. I'm not sure what the value in clarifying that is. Is there one?

Based on my WinCon, I thought it mattered. After doing some mental reevaluating, it's fine. If someone else Claims to be a Town Aligned nonVampire {not saying that you are Claiming this at this time}, this will matter again real quick, unless the Mod is playing loose and fast with certain terms. If said time arises when hypothetical other person Claims Town aligned nonVamp, I'll be

demanding

an answer to my question. I may even tell you why.

@Aronis- Why do you have

literally nothing

to say about anything that doesn't relate directly to your RolePM?

Aronis's Iso - a d3x Retelling

1- I'm Town cause my RPM says so!
2- Here's my RPM!
3- I can't understand my RPM.

This has been another cool story, bro. Thank you for tuning in.

I'm really tempted to shake some shit up, but I'll settle for a Vote instead.

Vote:Aronis

[d3x]

And he calls us idiots...

UnVote

Hey Aronis, what are your thoughts about anything game related? Players? Wagons? Who was pushing you for scummy reasons? I mean, it's almost page 5, you may as well play the game you signed up for...

[d3x]

I have 0 patience for players who don't play and then have a chip on their shoulder about it.

[d3x]

I may shed a tear.

What are your thoughts on the KthxWagon? What are your thoughts on Kthx?

[d3x]

I see your point in regards to the generation and clan. They ultimately mean nothing to me as I have no real knowledge of the source material save it's an PnP RPG and it's about Vampires. I didn't view this as flavor, I just assumed it was part of the Name.

This line of inquiry is excessively nitpicky and suspicious as a result.

Welcome to d3x playing Mafia.

Your lack of a semicolon made it sound like it was 2 seperate thoughts written on the same line; one thought leading to the other, not one thought

being

the other.

Gun to your head, who gets Lynched right now?

p.edit- LLD if I weren't playing the Game, I'd gladly take your critique. As I have been and currently am putting in effort, I'd thank you to leave my reflection out of the debate.

[d3x]

but name is flavour, how is it not? I cant see how you would make the distinction?

It's more of a nitpicky thing that I'm more than willing to discuss, but you'd find it suspicious and it's largely pointless. But let me know if you want me to go there for ScumHunting reasons. If it's just a theory debate, we can retire to MD because it has no place in game.

@D3xie - Have you played with Lady Lambda and Spyrex before? They appear mildly attached at the hip in a weird way and I'm trying to figure out why. If it's a normal thing I could at least shrug and walk away from it. Do you have any insight in that regard?

I've played with Spyrex years upon years ago, but it was just a single game iIRC. LLD and I have played LoL a handful of times, but never Mafia. I don't think I can help you in this. While I definitely noticed the Buddying, it need not be a scummy thing. Right now, I'm more reading it as LLD trying to build a TownBlock mentality.

Kthx wagon? Only one person voted kthx?

Seriously? I swear I saw more than that, but w/e. I know that there has been a fair amount of drum beating to get one going, I'd just assumed it was there in the fledgling state.

[d3x]

ftr- I don't think the displaced nom idea was scummy, just more relevant when discussed closer to the actual Lynch.

@Kagami- What are your thoughts on the recent LLD/displaced discussion of ranking clans?

@displaced- What are your thoughts on vonflare's read of Katsuki?

do we really have a Katsuki and a Kagami in this game? ffs, I'm going to mix them up every damn time.

[d3x]

@SG- Why is vonflare Town {specifically before posting reads just now}?

@displaced- Scum, Null, or Town overblown?

[d3x]

Vote:Monkey

[d3x]

@Aronis- Then why aren't you Voting him? Likewise, why did you pick Monkey to Vote over Emp & GF?

[d3x]

Why are you taking exception to her Vote, but not mine?

[d3x]

Why are you taking exception to her Vote, but not mine?

*snip*

But this is actually a good point...I'm not sure what it would mean, but it is odd. But, isn't the only way it's an issue is that you'd be Aronis' scumpartner?

Well, that's definitely one conclusion. I'd like to see what he says before listing some potential others.

[d3x]

A single spark, sometimes that's all it takes. A solitary point of light in this eternal darkness that embraces what now passes for my soul. A rememberance of the warmth and life that once gave me everything. I can recall so clearly walking in the sun, basking in the light. Now there is naught but the cold. But if I close my eyes. If I reach deep within myself, I think I can find it again. I can almost feel the heat washing over my face. I can almost drink the sun's power. I know I can find the path back to the light.

Burn to Ashes:MonkeyMan576

The cold returns. And I weep.

[d3x]

Most assuredly! Now the decision is simple. If by the end of the Night everyone thinks I'm Town, you give me the Vitae. If not, you don't. The landscape has changed, as I've promised. The discussion about what to do stops cluttering the thread until nearer the end of the Day, as I've suggested.

btw- Kthx is on V/LA until the end of the week, so you won't be getting any participation from him, SG.

[d3x]

Why? We'll find out pretty quickly what his Role is. You should be asking him what his Reads List is if you think he's actually Town.

[d3x]

not really sure that you did vig him.

No shit? Then why are you trying to get a Claim out of him?

[d3x]

Vote:Aronis

[d3x]

I'm going for the 'get rid of the scummy players b/c one of them is probably Scum' combo.

[d3x]

What if we stop discussing it until we need to do something to do about it {ie- when we're ready to Lynch someone}?

[d3x]

Because I find people's ideas about it worth evaluating.

Also, I'm unwilling to lynch without a full town anyway.

I agree that the ideas are worth evaluating, but I don't see them accomplishing anything but cluttering the thread at this point. By Saturday, Kthx will be back and we should have some form of participation from the replacements. If nothing else, furthering the discussion at this point lets players like Aronis make it seem like they're contributing with meaningful content instead of just debating theoretical plans. I'm also not saying that we should Lynch right now.

Speaking of Aronis...

Stop posting with spoiler tags. Not only is it against the rules of this particular game, it's annoying as shit to try and read when I'm on my phone.

[d3x]

It's an evolution on SG's idea to hit the diablerie to a midling player that {as you have pointed out}

still

lets Scum direct the diablerie. It also allows him to come up with ideas that 'further the Town' without doing any actual ScumHunting or benefitting the Town.

[d3x]

I think that without any further information, they're pretty safe names. If/When Aronis flips Scum, there is a decent chance that there's 1 Scum in the pool. If/When he flips Town, it's just a pool of names.

vonflare makes sense because no one is biting on his attempts to get a vonWagon going.

[d3x]

I'm fine with AA9 or Aronis swinging Today. In fact...

Vote:AA9

i love the theme

This sentiment pretty much contradicts directly with everything said on page 13.

I'm fine with putting together a Nom pool or being the Nom for the diablerie, whichever is decided. I'm not going to reveal my vitae {before or after power usage}, but suffice to say I'm not going to die from vitae loss by Tomorrow.

[d3x]

I'm leaning Town on Kthx.

@Kthx- Do you want me to answer any of the questions you asked me in your Wall? Vote AA9 with me. Why the hell are you not?

@Aronis- What happened to your plan of Voting for MIA players over ScumReads?

[d3x]

I am voting Katsuki for not posting substantial content?

You Voted Katsuki based off of his 'prod dodge'. That's a slight difference, but w/e. Point taken.

As for AA, not ready to PL her yet as Aronis is scummy as hell.

It's only a splash of PL. There's scummy shit in there if you actually look at what she's posted.

Spoiler: @Kthx-All Secrets Known

What do you mean you weren't here for RVS? You hold the 12th post of the game... Also, not sure what you were trying to point to with the p32 ScumTell.

If you follow the link I posted, it's the game where they said I was Town b/c I had posted before p32. I wasn't there for the RVS in those games they linked. It was a tongue in cheek response to not RVS'ing you which I hadn't realized was a thing.

It became serious when you didn't RVS me (or anyone for that matter), which is out of the norm.

The problem I have with this paranoid rant is that you said you thought I was pushing to end RVS early which would presumably be a Town action, but you simultaniously thought I was Scum based on not RVS Voting you {based on your serious Voting me}.

But does that make me scum?

You're not even voting me cuz im scum.

I'm voting you because of policy.

What idiot tries to lynch a dead man?

This is in direct contradiction to your claim in p333 that you were Voting him for a lack of content.

Kill this with fire.

Vote: Mnemonic Device

Stupid, yes. Scum, though? What's the Tell here, exactly?

If MD flips Town, Von's p370 is super scummy. Hell, even if MD is Scum, it's still a bit scummy.

I don't see the scum benefit in doing what

MD

did and having to lie about it

This.

Re: diablerie- I'm not opposed to giving it to LLD, but I'd prefer to give it to one of SG, Kthx, or myself.

[d3x]

Forgot to add this.

People I'd Vig right now if I had a reload... Aronis, AA9, or Von.

[d3x]

I'll be on later tonight to catch up.

[d3x]

It's only a splash of PL. There's scummy shit in there if you actually look at what she's posted.

Although I agree, there isn't a whole lot of posting, which in itself gives me scum vibes due to her loving the theme and all. I'd hop on her with you if it weren't so obvious that MD was scum. Well....maybe after an Aronis lynch....

That's not all I'm refering to. I'll get to it in a minute.

If MD flips Town, Von's p370 is super scummy. Hell, even if MD is Scum, it's still a bit scummy.

/agree. Feels forced. Then again, why force this if it's a bus? MD flips scum, in the words of SG, I don't see the motivation for forcing p370. One connection to make from MD's flip.

The Scum motivation is getting on the LynchWagon with "legit" reasoning. They came across forced as hell, but do you think he meant them to? If he didn't mean them to come across as forced {and why would he}, then how does that enter into it. It's a scummy post regardless of the flip. If it's a ScumLynch, he can point back and say 'dudes, I was so for that Lynch'. If it's a MisLynch, he can point back and say 'dudes, I totally had reasons'.

Re: diablerie- I'm not opposed to giving it to LLD, but I'd prefer to give it to one of SG, Kthx, or myself.

Why SG? As for LLD, meh, seems genuine and I wouldn't be opposed. I don't think you should take it though. You are already a pretty big target for scum. I'd rather them have to pick between the dia receiver and you for the NK than for them to auto-target you.

I'm fine not taking it; as I said, I won't 'bleed out' by tomorrow. I have SG as Town and I have you as slightly less Town. I'd rather the diablerie go to Town.

People I'd Vig right now if I had a reload... Aronis, AA9, or Von.

Why?

I thought that'd be an easy one. I have Scum Reads on all 3 of you. More on that later.

What did you find so scummy about me?

Aside from my standing order PL on you, I think your entrance to the game was scummy as all get out. Your first post was super psyched about the theme, yet you immediately jumped to not knowing anything about it. You were unsure that Vampires were Town and Ghouls were the Scum, which is in direct contradiction to you then saying that your RolePM has explicitly stated that you're a Vampire and included specifics about Vitae that isn't included in my RolePM. Coupled with my previous hangups about you and that's enough.

What has you reading Spy as Null+?

His initial push on Aronis

What specifically about his push has you TownLeaning on him?

D3x already rushed into monkeys Vig.

Yeah I agree with this

If you mean that I wish I'd saved it for a certain replacement, I also agree.

The current consensus seems to be LLD, but I'd feel a little more comfortable with agreement or outright rejection from SG and d3x.

I'm meh about giving to LLD, but I'm not against it.

I actually have a thought on the diablerie. I'm nom'ing SG because she's either Miller or Scum. If she's Town and gets the diablerie, Scum has to decide to sort her out or let her juice up {assuming she has some other ability besides Miller}. If Scum sort her out, we know her Claim was true and we don't have to deal with it. If they leave her alone for the WIFOM, she has the Vitae to do something {again assuming she has somethign she can do with it}. Thoughts?

@Mod

- I'm Voting for AA9.

[d3x]

Because after Kagami pointing out that she'd make a bad diablerie recipient, SG floated the idea that removing one's self from the nom pool is an AntiScum move. She then Claimed and did not remove herself from the nom pool.

[d3x]

My nomination of LLD depends heavily on the flip.

I thought it depended on how much she wants the nom. Why does your stance keep flipping strongly on it despite her continually not doing anything different?

[d3x]

Let me make a large portion of Today easy. I'm now officially out of Vitae. I'll need it at Lynch Today, unless you all want me dead by Tomorrow.

AA9- You're being vague. Are you Claiming an Investigation, or are you basing this off of the MisLynch? If the later, why is LLD the most suspect on the Wagon?

[d3x]

Vote:AA9

[d3x]

I think AA9 is town if not obviously so.

I strongly disagree. AA9 doesn't seem to have any concept of how the mechanics of a Town character works. She's surprised at a loss of Vitae from multiple players {including herself}. She said that her RolePM has specific information that my RolePM doesn't have. She 'loves' the theme, but doesn't know that Town=Vampires. How exactly is this obvTown, Kagami?

[d3x]

I once played in a game with her where she wanted to Lynch a Cop to test the Investigation result. I'm not ruling out that this is the worst Gambit ever. Besides, if people read her more Town than me {or others}, she'll get the diablerie and 'not die'.

I will however give you that we don't neeed to worry about her Today. If she's telling the truth, she'll die by Tomorrow and I only have to ignore her for one 'Day' phase. If she's still alive without receiving any influx of Vitae, we Lynch her Tomorrow.

UnVote

[d3x]

Oh yeah! I remember saying this...

If MD flips Town, Von's p370 is super scummy. Hell, even if MD is Scum, it's still a bit scummy.

Vote:vonflare

[d3x]

My current vitae is 0. As per mod, I ll die if i dont get any vitae before entering into evening.

Make peace with your God.

you dont know a thing about me... Go back and read my other games.. the game we have played was long time ago. OPEN your eyes!!

I know what I need to know about you.

This is scum. And Lynch this today.!!

Build a case. If you die and flip Town, I may read it Tomorrow.

[d3x]

@Aronis- Who'd you nom Yesterday for the diablerie?

AA9 is caught Scum. That Claim is bullshit. Read my question in p511 and her response in p513. This does not line up with her Claim. She still has not addressed the inconsistencies with her RolePM and what she's said. She cotinues to avoid discussion in favor of mud slinging and MisLynch shaming. Note in p415 she calls md Scum. This doesn't line up with her saying in p510 where she says she 'told us' that he was Town. Every mention after this post just says he's bad and bitches about no one listening to her calling LLD Scum.

Hey AA9-

fuck off D3X.

6. A basic level of civility is required.

The way she asked for it is pretty consistent with her claim, imo.

This.

@Aronis- Are you reading the thread?

[d3x]

@Mod

- Noted. I thought I'd try to use the rules to ask her to play nice as opposed to stooping to personal sniping as well.

I nominated LLD.

Then why'd you say this?

So did you idiots give LLD the vitae?

Also, why did you Nom her after saying this?

I don't want to give it to her because of her wanting the nom. However, if mnemonic flips scum, considering she found the 'slip' and started the wagon. I will give it to her.

I'm back to my position of...

People I'd Vig right now if I had a reload... Aronis, AA9, or Von.

...in reverse order.

[d3x]

Vote:Aronis

[d3x]

/sigh... vonflare is still Scum and I really want him to swing.

[d3x]

@Aronis- Reads List. Now.

[d3x]

Then UnVote.

[d3x]

Re: The ModKill - I do not disagree with the ruling. I think that once a rule has been put into place, the Mod is as bound by it as the players are to carry out the ramifications. I do have a huge issue with the rule, however. This game is the perfect storm of why. I couldn't come up with a single circumstance where the Scum team was as impacted as the Town team due to a ModKill. In other words, a ModKill can {and did} directly result in multiple Town deaths. The same cannot be said for the Scum team afaict. That means that the rule itself is weighted towards harming the Town. This means it's a bad rule.

Re: Lying Townies - Did the replacements receive their RolePM with additional information or not? If not, then why the hell are townies lying about the contents of their RolePMs?

[d3x]

All replacements had full information.

I'm not sure what this means. Were they sent the RolePMs along with additional rule clarifications that came up in thread or just the PMs themselves?

[d3x]

My crusade is refreshed anew. Instead of my previous policy of avoiding games AA9 is signed up for, I'm now going to be actively replacing out of any game she replaces in to.