Mini 1563 - Vampire: The Masquerade Mafia (Fourth Evening)

[Kagami]

boo.

[GreyICE]

Sorry Kagami.

You're still my MVP for this game. You damn near carried the town despite the town's best efforts.

[Kagami]

LLD was on top of things, imo.

I have comments on the setup, but want to see the role PMs first. Twas fun~

Thanks for modding, grey.

[Kagami]

And displaced was 100% right, of course. We just had a smaller margin for error than we should have had.

[GreyICE]

Role PMs!

Vampires:

Spoiler: Kagami

Ibtisam the Assassin, Assamite, 8th Generation

Ibtisam was hired by the prince for one single reason: to find the ghouls who were feeding on the city's vampires, and eliminate them. Unfortunately for him, Ibtisam was a killer, not a detective. Clues were as meaningless to him as rain to a fish, and his attempts to set up ambushes ended in failure. The prince has clearly grown tired of waiting for results.

Serpant's Touch (Cost 2):

Your blood becomes poison, and you make a strike with it. Your poisonous blood will consume 1 Vitae per night from the target. When a target (vampire or ghoul) reaches zero vitae, they will combust, the poison burning through their veins and killing them. There is no known cure.

Blood Curse:

You may not gain vitae from the lynch of a vampire (lynch of anything else, or human blood, is perfectly acceptable)

Vitae:

6

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining (you may share this victory)

Alternative Victory:

Assamites delight in slaughter. If there are no unpoisoned players remaining alive at the end of the game, you win (you may share this victory).

Spoiler: MonkeyMan576

Arnold, Gangrel, 11th Generation

Arnold is an investment banker. He managed a number of investments, the nature of which did not really concern him – the only thing that worried him was making money. One day a man in a business suit approached Arnold, offering him a deal. He needed to cause a company to fall, and then Arnold would have money and power beyond his wildest dreams. He agreed. When he returned to his apartment, he was assaulted by a strange woman. The woman tore out his throat, and left him for dead, but Arnold's maid happened to stumble across him while he was bleeding out. When Arnold awoke, he was left with a strange thirst, and the body of his maid laying on the ground where he'd left her.

Eyes of the Beast (Cost 1):

Choose 1: Learn the identities of all players who targeted you during the night, OR learn who another player targeted during the night.

Vitae:

2

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Spoiler: d3x

Arm, Tremere, 11th Generation

Arm was always a scholar. Ambiguous in life, ambiguous in death, Arm is an extension of the library. They are a servant of the chantry, and the ghoul threat threatens the chantry. Arm exists to learn, to store knowledge, and to use it to protect the chantry. And Arm will fulfill their function.

Conflagration (Cost: 3 Vitae):

Arm can channel the power of burning fire to reduce a single target to ashes. Be they ghoul or vampire or something stranger still, all fall before the power of the burning flame. You may use this power at any time, but if you use it during the night you cannot conceal that it was you, but must announce your usage in thread using any appropriate format (I prefer 'Burn to Ashes: XXXXX')

Vitae:

4

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Spoiler: Empking

Sandra, Parkour Expert, Toreador, 13th Generation

Sandra wasn't the founder of Parkour, but she was its devoted disciple. She practiced for 14 years, traversing urban spaces at will. She focused on the artistry, selecting only the most beautiful and elegant ways to move through the urban spaces. Occasionally she stole, or smuggled drugs, or did something else to let her travel to a new city, but it was all in pursuit of her art. Until she slipped on a rainy awning, and fell four stories. Her leg was smashed beyond recovery. While she was in the hospital, a strange woman approached her. She said that Sandra was an artist who could not be lost.

Now Sandra can't see the sun, has a thirst for blood... and can't run through cities. Becoming undead doesn't fix everything. That's okay though, there are other talents.

Extrasensory Perception (Cost 2):

Your mind observes someone's form during the day. At the end of the day, you will learn what sort of supernatural aura they exude, if any.

Vitae:

3

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Spoiler: Aronis

Sasha Vykos, Tzimisce, 6th Generation

You were visiting the city. It's always amusing to observe what these Camarilla idiots are up to, and you knew it was going to be something stupid and amusing. Unfortunately, you are now stuck in the middle of it. You'll eliminate these ghouls, if only to show that no one outwits Sasha Vykos. Then you can take your revenge at leisure.

Shape the Flesh (Cost 2):

Choose another player. You reshape their body to form a shield for you as you sleep. Any actions that target you will target them instead. If you would be killed, they will lose 2 vitae - if reduced to 0 vitae this way they instantly die.

Vitae:

5

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Modnote: If Sasha was lynched or killed, it would dissolve into a pool of blood, and get a quicktopic to mock/converse with the killing player. It's not so easy to actually kill Sasha Vykos.

Spoiler: displaced

Mike the Lawyer, Brujah, 12th Generation

Mike was a lawyer who devoted himself to criminal defense. Everyone from street punks to corporate types, Mike took pride in keeping his clients out of prison. He hates the prison systems. One day, Mike was approached by a street punk with piercings who wanted some advice. Only his client never met during the day. A little bit of background checks later, and... well, you can guess the rest.

Awe (Cost: 1 Vitae):

Your opinion carries extra weight. For this night your votes count for double with all those willing to listen. If players are in danger of losing (which would most likely happen if eliminating someone aligned with you would result in the ghouls eating all of you) this ability will fail.

Vitae:

3

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Ability failed in LyLo. Because stealing a doublevote is broken.

Spoiler: LLD

Veronica, Gangrel,13th Generation

Veronica worked diligently in life to preserve the local wolf pack. A forest ranger, Veronica tried to do her best to fight against the people who said the wolves should be eliminated. A strange hippy who smelled of loam and mold showed up one day and offered help. Her eyes were amber. She offered money and support. And one day she embraced Veronica. Now Veronica is not so sure she cares about the wolves – but their blood tastes delicious.

Earth Meld (Cost: 1 Vitae):

All actions that target you during the day fail.

Vitae:

4

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Spoiler: Katsuki

Machiavelli the Great, Malkavian, 10th Generation

You are Nicolo Machiavelli! Or was is Benito? You can never remember. But you know that you are destined for greatness. You think you were born in a city with rivers. Certainly Venice! Or Chicago! One of those Italian cities. Whatever. You're here to run the place. Or write the place? How did this go?

Telepathy (1 Vitae):

Pick one player. You can telepathically communicate with that player for the remainder of the game.

Possession (4 Vitae):

You gain control of target player. You have all of their abilities and their role. If they were a ghoul, you gain their abilities and their form, but you do not have access to any form of communication they had, nor do you know the other ghouls.

Vitae:

3

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Not actually Machiavelli, of course. Or maybe he was. What's identity to a Malkavian, anyway?

Spoiler: TheGoodfather

Three-Finger Joseph, Catiff, 14th Generation

A small time con-man, Joe knew a big score when he saw it. Rob was in his mid thirties, and loaded. Sure, he always seemed depressed, and he liked strange things, but it sure beat running street cons and worrying some guys with accents in suits would show up for the rest of his fingers. What's some kinky sex compared to that? Of course that was before something went wrong. The next thing he knew, he was in front of some asshole who was calling himself a Prince (in America!) and Rob was dust. Now he's got to make it on his own.

Blush of Life

– Joseph can choose not to spend any Vitae during the day phase. If so, he can use no other abilities, and will appear human to all vampiric senses.

Brave the day

– Joseph isn't immune to the powers of the sun, but he's found he can maintain a sort of semi-consciousness. He can observe another vampire, and determine what sort of powers were used on them during the day (but not who used them).

Vitae:

2

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Spoiler: SquirrelGirl

Molly the Misfit, Catiff, 15th Generation

Molly was an exile, always on the outside, looking in. A simple story. Met a guy, in a club, thought he was pretty. He found her pretty too, and she went back to his place. One accident later, and well, now she has these powers. Her teeth have turned into fangs, although she can still eat food, and she always gets tired right before the sun comes up. She's got no idea what happened, but she knows she's got to stick to the shadows.

Nearly Human

– Molly is so close to a human that she does not naturally consume vitae. You will not lose any vitae at the start of the night. She will also appear as human to vampiric senses.

Vitae:

3

Victory:

You win when the prince deems there's no one who threatens vampires in his domain remaining, and at least one vampire remains alive.

Ghouls:

Spoiler: Kthxbye

Joanna, Street Thug

Joanna was born on the streets. She was raised by her older brother, a member of the Hell's Angels, until he died when she was 12. She found herself loosely supported by the club, but she was mostly left on her own. She fought with the best, until she found a new person. Someone who wanted to make a name for himself on the streets. He was gonna be a street king, bring a new age. Joanna happily followed him for years Some rituals and stuff were a little weird, but he gave Joanna direction – until a woman named Sally killed him. Once he was dead, Joanna found she didn't remember anything compelling about any of the rhetoric – but Sally gave her a new purpose. Her former 'master' was a predator who had turned her into just another piece of street meat. And Joanna ain't gonna let anyone get away with that.

Potence (Cost: 2 vitae):

Joanna can enhance her strength, which will allow her to tear one night kill into pieces. While you will learn their name and clan, the rest of the vampires will not. All they will learn is the nature of who you killed (human, ghoul, vampire, etc.).

If you use this power you will not gain any ability or blood from the kill.

Vitae:

3

---

Factional Abilities:

Telepathic Communication

– you may chat in this quicktopic: -Redacted-

Daylight Murders

– During the day you may kill 1 player. You will receive half the Vitae that player has, rounded down.

The power in the blood:

You may use the power of any vampire you kill on the subsequent day or night (depending on the power). If you do not use it, the power will be lost.

Win Condition: 

You win when all other non-ghoul players are dead and at least one ghoul survives, or nothing can prevent the same.

Spoiler: SpyreX

Sally-Mae, Former Investment Banker

Sally was an up-and-coming star. Despite her poor southern background, her intelligence and nose for blood lead her first to a job on a ground floor of a major investment banking firm in New York, then to the higher offices, and finally to partnership – and the notice of a powerful vampire. After a glass of odd-tasting wine, he explained the life of a ghoul to her. Apparently he expected unquestioned obedience. He probably didn't expect the self-defense classes, or that she always carried a gun, or that the candlesticks on the table would end up triggering his fear of fire.

Sally decided she should be the one who reaped the benefits of eternal life. Unfortunately all the vampire's blood left her with was some strange knowledge, and shakes that could only be quieted by a little more of that thick, red blood.

Command (2 Vitae):

Sally can use this ability during any night phase to compel a player to focus their attentions on another. That player can only use abilities on the chosen target until the next night. This does NOT force them to use any abilities. (ex. You may force Vi to target Flay during the remainder of this night and the next day phase. Any abilities Vi uses must be used on Flay. This will NOT force Vi to use any abilities)

Vitae:

2

---

Factional Abilities:

Telepathic Communication

– you may chat in this quicktopic: -Redacted-

Daylight Murders

– During the day you may kill 1 player. You will receive half the Vitae that player has, rounded down.

The power in the blood:

You may use the power of many vampires you kill on the subsequent day or night. If you do not use it, the power will be lost. Note that some powers are simply beyond your command - only the undead can master those powerful disciplines.

Not a Vampire

: You do not naturally consume vitae.

Win Condition:

You win when all other non-ghoul players are dead and at least one ghoul survives, or nothing can prevent the same.

Spoiler: Vonflare

Abraham Dinter, Blood-Addicted Ghoul

In the 18th century Abe was a manservant to one of the most powerful people in Alabama. Despite being a woman, Mary Dinter was perhaps the most powerful person in Tenessee. The collapse of the slave trade had not damged the Dinter family, and Mary ran it with an iron fist. Abe was her favorite... up until she was killed by another vampire – one who tore her apart with teeth and claws. At first, Abe was motivated to hunt vampires for revenge, but soon it became to quiet his growing thirst, and now he knows that he needs that blood. Without it, he's just a 160 year old man, and he's under no illusions what happens then.

Blood is life

– Abe consumes blood as per vampire rules.

---

Factional Abilities:

Telepathic Communication

– you may chat in this quicktopic: -Redacted-

Daylight Murders

– During the day you may kill 1 player. You will receive half the Vitae that player has, rounded down.
The power in the blood: You may use the power of any vampire you kill on the subsequent day or night (depending on the power). If you do not use it, the power will be lost.

Win Condition:

 You win when all other non-ghoul players are dead and at least one ghoul survives, or nothing can prevent the same.

Up to scum whether they wanted to share the QT.

D3X's ability couldn't be stolen, everything else was fair game.

[Kagami]

rambling thoughts~

simplified version of roles- assuming town manages bags and diablerie well

town:

monkey: one-shot tracker
d3x: one-shot dayvig
emp/AA9: one-shot cop
displaced: slightly better than vanilla
LLD/shadoweh: commuter
katsuki: one-shot neighborizer
goodfather/nd: miller, voyeur
SG: miller
Aronis: redirector of sorts.

Suicidal players can be non-suicidal if they get a non-zero diablerie or a blood bag, which saves at most 2 townies per day phase. Blood bag still leaves them at critical next day. Assuming everyone uses an ability night 1, at least one of monkey, d3x, and AA9 dies.


Anti-town:

Me. Only through perfect aim and good luck was I pro-town. In general, my ability posed no major threat to the ghouls, with the exception of blood addicted vonflare. It is too easy for them to recover enough to stay alive, since they'd only lose one per night and gain a decent amount on kill. It is certain death for town aligned players, however. On top of that, even if I hit ghoul every time, I would resist lynching them at all costs because lynching poisoned targets is playing against my win condition.


Scum:

spyrex is essentially a loud roleblocker
kthx and vonflare are goons


Most of the town power is the dayvig, the cop, and oddly enough, the vitae mechanic and the first blood bag.

In a functional town, where quick-grabbing the blood bag without obvious need is a scumclaim and the diab nom is properly organized, the vitae mechanic is mostly going to limit powers to one-shot. On top of that, though, it makes "I'm out of vitae" an extremely high probability town-tell. It was completely obvious that d3x and AA9 were town during day 2, and if AA9 got the bag and d3x got the diab (or the other way around) town got 2 high-prob innos through game mechanics alone. Scum had no way to know that vampires were so limited in their vitae, so it's very unlikely they'd claim similarly.

Scum were also shut out of claiming "no vitae" once two+ town did it, because they would then have a very good chance of not getting any and being obv-scum the next day. Meanwhile, both townies who were out should have survived because of the blood bag that no one knew would come.

The power-stealing abilities of the scum seems pretty low utility. Mine is the only one worth getting that they'd have a possibility of using, and would be somewhat swingy if they nabbed it.

Interestingly, it was confirmed to the two millers either that they're both town or that scum have fake-claims. This came up when ND called himself a catiff instead of a caitiff, but this wasn't noticed. Minor note there, since it's not surprising that scum would have fake-claims anyway.

I think SG's solution to the diablerie is the only viable one. Leaving it to chance means the ghouls likely will get it, and there's not really any situation where nom-claiming the next day is going to narrow things down enough to justify the massive loss to town that would come if they miss a diab. LLD nom day one was absolutely optimal. Night actions night 1 were not.

I'm actually a little disappointed in how the diablerie-ing worked out as a mechanic, which is in large part due to vitae constraints. All the diabs beyond the first (assuming functional town) were pretty much mechanical since there is always someone with no vitae left. I was hoping it would be something that encourages players to be obv-town so they'd get it. Town players being incentivized to appear town is a sign of a good setup, imo.

Modkill was justified, but I think we should have gotten to nom for diab. The loss of diab organizing ability is punishment enough. I think the purpose of the "disadvantage your team as much as possible" clause is to prevent strategic modkills (e.g. trying to get yourself modkilled as town because you're the lead wagon, deadline is approaching, and it doesn't look like the votes will come in time) or other instances where the modkill benefits that player's team. This effectively gave scum an extra kill.

[Kagami]

EBWOP: ignore the suicidal bit, that was something I forgot to delete when I modified my role list~

[Shadoweh]

<.<

>.>

Look, it seemed like a good idea at the time, the wine told me so. I should porbbaly just avoid mafia sites after 4am >_>

[displaced]

Shadoweh, your hammer was so bad it broke the site

[GreyICE]

(oh, side note, LLD won - if you have to be replaced from one of my games due to my personal error, you get an automatic win)

Kagami - pretty good breakdown! SpyreX's roleblocker was loud for two reasons: first, because roleblock/redirect is pretty cruel when you are burning your vitae to get things done, and because its major purpose was to stop some sort of breaking strategy.

As you might have guessed, there's a lot of ways to get information in this game, and I wanted there to be outplay opportunities from both scum and town. The scum didn't have fake claims, they had a list of clans and I'd give them a claim if they asked for one based on what clan and power they wanted. Obviously in a heavy flavor game like this I can't leave them out to dry entirely, but I thought that was a good balance between that and "there's no doctors in the game, so feel free to claim it"

(also spelling mistakes might dot my games now and in the future. I'm hardly perfect I wouldn't recommend people read too much into the exact spelling of things)

[displaced]

Why no backup mod GI?

Also regarding the modkill, I think I agree with Kagami, broadly. I think the modkill was justifiable but the repercussions were not. If it hadn't been for Kagami's power killing Vonflare, the modkill wouldve effectively decided the game on the spot, which I find fairly absurd. (Punishment for a player compromising game actually compromises the game far more decisively)

Given the role PM's I am even more bemused by Aronis' play, I got the distinct impression from his claim etc that his role was compulsive but it turns out not to be? He should be aware enough to know that he wouldnt be a NK target with the focus he was receiving during the day game and that his role even if successful in redirecting a kill is more than likely to have negative impact. Basically this role shouldnt be used unless you are some town god who is an obv NK choice, and even then with some trepidation.

[d3x]

Re: The ModKill - I do not disagree with the ruling. I think that once a rule has been put into place, the Mod is as bound by it as the players are to carry out the ramifications. I do have a huge issue with the rule, however. This game is the perfect storm of why. I couldn't come up with a single circumstance where the Scum team was as impacted as the Town team due to a ModKill. In other words, a ModKill can {and did} directly result in multiple Town deaths. The same cannot be said for the Scum team afaict. That means that the rule itself is weighted towards harming the Town. This means it's a bad rule.

Re: Lying Townies - Did the replacements receive their RolePM with additional information or not? If not, then why the hell are townies lying about the contents of their RolePMs?

[GreyICE]

If I were to revise the rule, I'd change it to "appropriate penalties will be taken to ensure no faction will ever benefit from a modkill" which in this case probably would have meant a diablarie vote. The meta of strategic modkills (which was always shady and looked down on) is long passed.

All replacements had full information.

[displaced]

Was there a dead QT?

[GreyICE]

http://www.quicktopic.com/50/H/7iEA7K3Rwxw4D

[d3x]

All replacements had full information.

I'm not sure what this means. Were they sent the RolePMs along with additional rule clarifications that came up in thread or just the PMs themselves?

[GreyICE]

They were sent the full role PM, and any actions their slot had previously taken.

I assumed they'd have read the thread for other rules, etc., which may have been a mistake, since I kind of feel in at least one case that didn't really happen.

[d3x]

My crusade is refreshed anew. Instead of my previous policy of avoiding games AA9 is signed up for, I'm now going to be actively replacing out of any game she replaces in to.

[displaced]

So I just read the dead QT: Don't retire d3xy boy !

[SpyreX]

Finally got my stupid internet and this site to play nice again.

Well.... that was

I'm not sure what it was this game (aside from RL which made me inactive far more than I like) but it was clear the winning strategy was to watch the town go into some kind of bad oneupsmanship. I get where d3x is coming from, a lot.

And I'll never understand the day before lylo. Kat thought I was town because, really, I had something 100% legit to attack and there wasn't any "scum" that day. Town SpyreX would have played that day identically and if I was in Shadow's shoes, I would have lost it too.

[displaced]

I mean yeah I probably overegged the redirect thing but apart from that your attacks weren't legitimate?

Given Kats' town flip proved you were talking bull about the double vote how can you hand on heart say you'd have lost too? Shadoweh lost the game because she acted on drunken impulse, not because of anything solid you presented.

[Kagami]

I already knew you were the last scum, so I might be biased, but I thought using your power on shadoweh should have been treated as a scum-claim.

Town-spyrex would have used it as an investigation and targeted displaced, especially since he might be worried about getting NKed himself, only scum-spyrex would use it on shadoweh, which is clearly a move to persuade rather than investigate. Using it on shadoweh makes especially little sense as town, since if she were actually scum, her power would probably be ascetic, not commute.

[Kagami]

And you can't really blame it on drunken impulse, she had the entire night from when spyrex used his ability to when the thread opened to think the situation through.

[displaced]

Well it's her excuse not mine!

But yeah I agree that Spy's opener of the fourth day to be a scum claim and was extremely surprised Shadoweh fell for it (probably why I believe that she did indeed let the wine decide)

[Squirrel Girl]

I had fun for the period I was alive in