Mini 1581--The Final Radiant Tales...(Fin)

[Oversoul]

Hello all

/confirm

[Oversoul]

Yay

VOTE: ZZZx

mod does this have cults, jesters, lynchers possibility?

[Oversoul]

Getting scum out of fourteen people sounds difficult. D:

14?

[Oversoul]

Nope, not rushing into a lynch.



If we grind enough D1, we should become OP enough to avoid a xylo situation.

*serious face*

What are you worried about? It's 7 to lynch, and there were only 4 votes on him.

[Oversoul]

What are you worried about? It's 7 to lynch, and there were only 4 votes on him.

...within the first two posts of the game proper.

I forgot Varsoon was in this game. That makes pressure a little more realistic.

Varsoon, do you still lolhammer people?

[Oversoul]

I'm worried that I'm going to get tunneled on solely because of things that I do every game.

Just like I have been the last three or four games I've played. I could give you links if you really want them. But seriously, it happens every single game I play, and I'm sick of it.

So why are you commenting on this like chicken little? Do something.

I wanted to vote Lying Scum for their nervousness comment. I can see a scum saying that to feign town mindset and worry. But Varsoon is in this game so maybe that is why they thought that. hmm..

ZZZX wagon has grown boring.
VOTE: Kingdom

[Oversoul]

Kingdom is town, btw.

Why?

The only one that I think is decently town is Bert because of the claim stuff.

[Oversoul]

We can all stop talking about it now because it is clear from Nati's next vote count it was a fail countdown tag.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, if I can't answer questions specifically directed at me, and if they can't talk about Nati's tag fail, what can we talk about?

What?

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, if I can't answer questions specifically directed at me, and if they can't talk about Nati's tag fail, what can we talk about?

What?

I think KA's trying to ask you to create discussion about some topic.

What? I am confused because I never said KingdomAces couldn't talk about/answer questions aimed at him. I don't know why he said that.

[Oversoul]

Unvote

Vote: Aces

What are you so worried about.

I'm worried that I'm going to get tunneled on solely because of things that I do every game.

Just like I have been the last three or four games I've played. I could give you links if you really want them. But seriously, it happens every single game I play, and I'm sick of it.

So why are you commenting on this like chicken little? Do something.

Yes you did.

That wasn't saying "You are not allowed to say this" it was "if you are going to say this do something about it so it stops happening"

[Oversoul]

snscompt1 is a person of interest.

gameplay's reaction to my push about his vote gives me minor townvibes.

@Oversoul

, you watch quite a few games you don't play. Have you watched any of KA's recent games?

Technically yes? but can't talk about it. I don't really remember this side of him but I will go check that game. He isn't a player I seek out to read like I would a bigger name player.

Why is no one bandwagoning? Is Nati really that bastard with vote counts and voting mechanics and that is why everyone is seemingly stuck in a quagmire?

[Oversoul]

Technically yes? but can't talk about it. I don't really remember this side of him but I will go check that game. He isn't a player I seek out to read like I would a bigger name player.

yeah my experience with Kingdom recently, he doesn't act like this, Morph.

[Oversoul]

I was going to link you to some of his posts in the Dark Age of the Law sign up thread, but the posts I'm thinking about were tiger-chomped. I'll go back through some recent games later today.

At any rate, we consider it alignment neutral, not a town tell.

I wasn't saying it was a town tell for him to act like this, if anything my personal experience makes this not a town tell. You are more familiar with the meta on Kingdom so I'll wait.

[Oversoul]

i think I have to agree with the suspicious quality of the readslist here. It is as if you're just putting a bunch of names down without having to add that much more of effort. If you're going to do a readslist, make it full explain it fully for even the null ones. Don't just selectively highlight.

You mean like... 172 and 175?

[Oversoul]

Yeah stuff to read.
I was worried this game would just sink into apathy and never return.

[Oversoul]

Will read later tonight

[Oversoul]

Why is no one bandwagoning?

VOTE: overly things

Don't let mollie corrupt your brain.

[Oversoul]

I love you too Bulb. Since we love each other so much you wont mind me piggybacking off that vote, right? K, thx.

UNVOTE
VOTE MIRHAWK

I didn't like this post not so much for the shameless vote hop, but rather the buddying.
This contrasts with his eventual replace out 239, which I think has townie motivation. I find scum will be more likely to remain in the game despite extenuating circumstances preventing them from really doing much.

Yes, it most certainly is. How many bastard games are happening on site right now?

VOTE: ZZZX

choo choo motherfucker

I don't really think any scumslips ever really happen

except for lolYates

. What is the slip in that post? Talking about being able to read jesters?

morph the cat (Cabd+fferyllt): scum

Honestly, the empty questions and lack of followup is what I do too. I can understand where they are coming from in that regard. Plus this game had a fairly slow start and that likely damaged the first day at least. However, I do like the contradiction between not voting someone and then complaining about people not voting. That is a nice point you have that I will have to read in their iso more later when I have time to analyze the game state at the point the comment was made.

I don't think I have actually played against scum Cabd or scum Fferylt so I don't really know what to expect in that regard. Plus it has been a while since I've read/played a game with them in it. I think the last few I did read were when they were under my radar as players to watch. I should really stop being so vain.

VOTE: gameplay

I agree with this vote slightly. The comment about Bert's claim looks like generic filler that scum use to "put a pin" in a topic so to speak. Highlight it to say they've have noticed the comment without actually really commenting on it.

It's laughable because I think you're scum or ... what? Give some reasoning. Disparaging my reads isn't going to get you very far Ffery.

Which head is posting doesn't change the read.

P-edit: ok.

It should, on a very fundamental level.

I agree with this. Despite how some hydras try to be "uniform", you're still playing with two different people that have their own distinct styles and quirks.

No, apparently you're not good enough at reading me. Beli and I have hydra'd a couple times. I think he'll be able to set you straight on some stuff.

I liked this. Fferylt's confidence that a hydra partner will be able to read her rings true with me. The genuine feel of this post overall and the effort fferylt is exerting make me want to say town for this slot. Still need to look at the gamestate earlier. This is a note for that for when I am less tired and less behind.

On a sidenote, I will also say that ETL-ffery disputes/misinterpretations leave a sour taste in my mouth, but I don't see either coming from a scum-mindset at all...

So... you're calling this... town v town?

Just not in those words?

Same for ZZZX, though different games, but he's being very much his townself.

What more specifically is his town self?

C: DId I mention it never works?

Why doesn't it work?

This is the quote you are referring to. ^ Your posts seem to be for the purpose of "appearing town" with your questions, but without enforcing why you asked your questions in the first place. That doesn't stand you in good stead with the rest of town. Your posts have been reactions or unloaded questions, which so far doesn't seem useful in the long run.

I dunno. Both of the points you two are making are meta in my opinion. You commenting on the quick townreads could easily be a move to look honestly town. Your argument against Mirhawk is along the same lines of Mirhawk trying to look honestly town. I think Mirhawk not voting there is actually kinda sorta town? I'll expand upon this later but giving people room (or rope) to lynch themselves with is a fairly progressive town thing to do.

I don't ask empty questions. Whether I follow up immediately or at all depends on the answers I get.

Finally! Someone who plays vaguely the way I do and gets it!!

huzzah!

Lastly, if you're not going to follow up on your questions, how do you expect me to think that is anything BUT scummy? It doesn't look to me like you are actually interested in the results of your inquiry. You can't simply scumread us for pointing out something valid about your play here that doesn't look remotely town motivated.

Heh, clearly you've never read an Oversoul game.

But this line of thinking assumes that everyone plays the way you do which is a bad assumption to make.

So confused...So many walls...

Best get reading

skimming

!

this one is for you.

I actually really don't know what to make of the fact that ETL is now spoilering their walls.
It is something I do as scum to feign activity because I can just pump a bunch of shit into a spoiler, have it look more or less like content, and then coast by that. I actually have a fairly psychological argument for why spoilers are bad and probably scummy but I will save that for when I have more time to go indepth about it.

The only reason I think this might not be too bad is because ETL did this specifically for gameplay's viewing pleasure. But then again, why? He is going to have to get accustomed to walls because #100+pageDay1 recent trend.

Although I didn't like his jumps from one wagon to another, I don't find it to be immensely scum indicative because I have seen town sheep like this too. That's why I noted it and wanted to see more from that slot. Unfortunately I have to read his posts again because I have no idea what he has posted post my post.

Bandwagons are good, especially for slow beginnings like this game had.

Hell, bandwagons are pretty much good all the time. Happy?

*sigh* MafiaSSK remains at null...

Honestly the best advice someone ever gave me long ago about reading lurkers is to analyze their content to vote ratio. People who are out of date will likely make poor votes. Scum lurkers are probably going to have a high content to vote ratio because they don't want to appear vote hoppy. A town lurker most likely DGAF and will vote often. In my experience, this advice is fairly good for sussing out scum/town lurkers. Plus vigs and all.

Also, hi ETL. I'm here. Having an existential crisis of playstyle. Don't know how to post. Be back later, promise.

Uhh

So

This came across as highly town given the eventual results of this crisis. Don't know if I can talk about it further other than ... use your eyes and examine everything.



That's all the catchup I have for. More tomorrow morning.

[Oversoul]

Who is Arsehole?

[Oversoul]

Mod note my VLA

[Oversoul]

Everyone is probably thinking it but Bulba is probably a flavor cop of some sorts.

[Oversoul]

Everyone is probably thinking it but Bulba is probably a flavor cop of some sorts.

No. No, I was not.

Why are

you

thinking about what other peoples' roles are?

I always do that regardless of alignment. I never asked Bulba for his role but when someone asks *that* in a random flavor game it will draw attention. The only difference is that scum will likely want to do it quietly (not at all in thread) to kill Bulba but I did it publicly to potentially have some good side effects.

[Oversoul]

I have literally no familiarity with the apparent flavor this game. I actually lucked out playing the game my character was from but yeah.

[Oversoul]

UNVOTE:

Lost my place in the game
Will read up tonight

[Oversoul]

I still have no idea how ZZZX post was a slip. It doesn't make grammatical sense to my either way but I am slow.

I almost want to bandwagon but Nati's last vote count had me as two votes? So I don't know what is going on there.

[Oversoul]

I don't feel good about this but whatever. We don't have much time.

VOTE: Beast

[Oversoul]

Gameplay honestly. I felt like he was taking pot shots at people earlier in the game and realized it was a bad idea.

[Oversoul]

I don't feel good about this but whatever. We don't have much time.

VOTE: Beast

Why Beast over IA?

I am curious to see how ZZZX slip stuff turns out. I really don't believe in slips and think that it could clarify a few points of suspicion I have. My main theory is that scum buddies view their buddies in a harsher light and so they would try to jump on something like that thinking it was obvious and would grant a lot of town cred.

What Bert?

[Oversoul]

Because he knows we are deathproof duh

Is that a real thing? Damn Nati is bastard.

[Oversoul]

Hmm... I guess you make a bandwagon on certain days too...

[Oversoul]

I don't even know what type of relational tells Gameplay would give at this point.

[Oversoul]

I know it's just I won't have internet tonight or tomorrow so I am wary to just throw my vote so close to deadline on a vanity wagon.

[Oversoul]

Egh. Fuck it.

VOTE: Gameplay

[Oversoul]

Wait guys !!
ETL might have been cult!

Hmm.... I think this may actually be a thing cause bastard and :reasons:
I don't know if Gameplay is scum anymore because of this

[Oversoul]

if the flip means lying scum was not town, and rather was scum

If that's true

VOTE: fferyllt

I had them as potential scum and it was really awkward trying to discuss them with you, i finally got a "no they are town" read after prodding with multiple Reiki sticks!! And that town read was after you kept asking ETL questions as if you didn't understand what she was doing.

REIKI

I think you meant to vote Morph.

If ETL hadn't been hydraing with Beli I probably wouldn't ever have settled on a town read day 1 because ETL was quite belligerent about misreading my posts and afaik never went back to see how wrong she was about my trajectory on sns.

I'll wait for IA and bulba to report, but my inclination at the moment is to vote Oversoul.

Mmmmmnope
Town

[Oversoul]

if the flip means lying scum was not town, and rather was scum

If that's true

VOTE: fferyllt

I had them as potential scum and it was really awkward trying to discuss them with you, i finally got a "no they are town" read after prodding with multiple Reiki sticks!! And that town read was after you kept asking ETL questions as if you didn't understand what she was doing.

REIKI

I think you meant to vote Morph.

If ETL hadn't been hydraing with Beli I probably wouldn't ever have settled on a town read day 1 because ETL was quite belligerent about misreading my posts and afaik never went back to see how wrong she was about my trajectory on sns.

I'll wait for IA and bulba to report, but my inclination at the moment is to vote Oversoul.

Mmmmmnope
Town

After mullling over it, I don't feel like you're making yourself a presence like I remember from previous games.

Symptom of lack of access and over stretched on ... Everything. If you would care to click view posts and *cough* look, you would see it is the same across everything.

I will say I have not been as useful as I had hoped but I think if LS was not cult, there may be one. I am drawing this from my own role and how cryptic Nati seems to be

[Oversoul]

If there's time travel in this game someone just shoot me

[Oversoul]

Hmm... If people are mysteriously getting roleblocked, I think I may have the answer. I need to ask Nati some things.

Me thinks there is a redirector or bus driver or something if that's the case.

[Oversoul]

If there's time travel in this game someone just shoot me

Because paradox prime?

My role's wording suggests that there is something to do with time manipulation in this game.

Heh. Don't even remind about that game and your shenanigans with your hydra qt, let alone the "gambit".

But no, it is because time travel likely means that Lying Scum can come back in some form or another and we will probably have to waste a lynch on it unless we have a Vig.

[Oversoul]

if Lying Scum was an SK why was there only one kill?

[Oversoul]

She wasn't in that hydra, that was all me (cabd) and even I think I was way too over the top in hindsight, so.

I thought that was a Cabd post.
I don't really address separate entities in hydras unless I have to because PEOPLE (Mastin, Nero, Mollie)

[Oversoul]

Genital mutilation hardly seems a funny topic

[Oversoul]

I think gameplay is town for his posts today with regards to LS flip.
I am trusting IA and Bulba are town based on Bulba claim.
I am willing to call Morph town with the hopes that if they are scum they will night kill me. One can hope.
I think KA town for the genuine feeling of replying to my counter self meta accusation he made the first day

Looking back at how BC wagon went, I don't really like Mirhawk's jump off it. It is like he voted gameplay to be rid of that wagon for the future implications of the flips

VOTE: Mirhawk

Pedit: that's who I forgot
I think Bert is more likely town given the apparent strength of LS? If time travel and omnicide are thing the hell is a double voter to mafia...

[Oversoul]

Why ETL when you can choose Beast?

[Oversoul]

Want to find out?

[Oversoul]

Ha! I liked that response.

[Oversoul]

Is something the matter that you can't enjoy a witty response?

[Oversoul]

Where did I go Bert?

MafiaSSK why didn't you address my comment towards you yesterday?

[Oversoul]

What the hell are you doing

[Oversoul]

Trying to encourage you to rally and play the most simply extraordinary game of your life instead of this crap!

I am willing to call Morph town with the hopes that if they are scum they will night kill me. One can hope.

I would like you to expound on this.

Well. I feel like crap so my play is crap.

I think that it would be too obvious to kill me if I outright suspected them. Just rest my child... All will be well.

[Oversoul]

More votes on Mir!

[Oversoul]

Huh, Shadoweh?

[Oversoul]

I don't know where I said I changed my mind? I am probably not reading that well. Celebrating 4th of July right now, so kinda... Intoxicated.

[Oversoul]

It's not pretty

[Oversoul]

Ilu
It's werd
Lov

[Oversoul]

Ok
I am finally actually HOME!!
Get excite

[Oversoul]

^He just made the wrong call in LYLO in wake's mountainous mini normal. This replace out smells town, will see if spayhalf agrees.

I agree that is likely to come from town.

Oddly enough this is the second replace out of this kind that I have seen recently.

[Oversoul]

Why?

[Oversoul]

I have very recently misread Shos, so I am not entirely sure how to handle him and his noise.

[Oversoul]

I said Shos's noise... Not your noise.

[Oversoul]

same account fuck head

But not the same person, so... Yeah.

Lay off the aggression when no one has been aggressive toward you. It is completely out of place.

[Oversoul]

Thumbs up. Wagon ahoy!

[Oversoul]

No idea. Haven't really paid much attention to that slot which is why I asked for your reasoning to sheep you onto their wagon.

It's just too much to bear.

[Oversoul]

Their posts. I can't really come to the willpower to read them. Sometimes like Mollie's posts.

[Oversoul]

That would be fairly funny if LS targeted Bulba. Two SKs! But this type of role has been done before now that I remember. Ironically in that game the role became aligned with the SK.

It's called Children of Hurin Mafia. A Large Theme.

[Oversoul]

WOW. Holy shit am I so far behind with this game...

I am going to power through this game tonight (well for the next two hours).

pedit:

So, you get to use a new sword each night, but you don't know what it will do?

[Oversoul]

@Oversoul

I haven't talked about this meta-review with Cabd, which I really should since he reads all the games and I don't. But, we may not get a chance to discuss KA's meta before I fly out tonight, and I have no idea what my time will be like during the first week or so that I'm back in Florida. My dad starts chemo on Friday and we'll see what he and my mom need in the way of support following that.

Anyway.

In reviewing his Fire Emblem: Awakening ISO, I was reminded again how much he impressed me in that game. It was fast-moving and he came into the game as one of the children on Day 2, so he had a lot of data to work with, as well as a lot of spamposting, and he did what I thought was a good job of sifting through it and developing good reads. Most of the deaths in that game were janitored, which made the associative stuff much more difficult to trace. Going back through that, I don't see much concern from him during the game about being a likely default mislynch, though he was pretty hard on himself in the postgame.

The next game I played with him was MarketPlace Mafia III. The negativity about his play doesn't really come out here, either, until postgame where he apologizes, "Sorry that I replaced in even though I really didn't have time for it, and turned what was an obvtown slot into an easy mislynch." Looking at his contribution in retrospect, he was much quieter in this game than in the FEA game (which was still going on), and I remember not being as impressed with his level of analysis at the time, and being concerned that the difference was alignment indicative. But, his reads weren't all that bad, and certainly better than the reads some town players had during that game.

In the AA Mini 1522 game, he posted a lot less than I'd seen from him in the past. His 8th post in the game was quite the self-indictment for his skills as a player in general. "Despite my join date, I'm actually probably one of the worst mafia players in this game." I think this was when I finally realized that he has a pretty poor opinion of his own play.

The next link I'd like to include here doesn't exist any more. He posted in the sign up thread for the Dark Age of the Law game. As I recall he was apologetic for not joining the game, dissed his own play pretty thoroughly, and was slowly talked into joining the game. Once he was in the game, he gave it his best shot, and I feel bad about helping him be deadline-mislynched after an insane day 1 part 1 (double day format). It was his post 191 where he brought up his opinion of his play within the game.

So, I'm seeing a trajectory here. I think FEA was his first game after a hiatus. He's gotten mislynched with distressing frequency and he's become more and negative about his play. This marks a departure in that it's first time I've seen him talk about being mislynch bait right from the start, but the posts have been heavily foreshadowed in other games. I can see an argument that his playing it up more here than in past games could be alignment indicative. But, I'll want to see other differences in his play before I buy such an argument.



This was a pretty

Like I didn't even notice this reach out from Fferylt I was so damn behind.

I blame alcohol and general self loathing.

[Oversoul]

KA pretty town based on the logic he wanted IA dead in my opinion.

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Bert
What was that about? There was no way that claim was coming from scum.

Anyway, now I think it's safe to say the other reason why I was calling the Arseholes confirmed town: because that would make it more likely for scum to kill them.

I never actually trusted them, but it doesn't matter as long as they're flipped. I was planning on making a bigger deal about them being conf-town, but then I never really posted, so...

This in particular, Rubicon.

It is something I do as town to get 1) annoying people, 2) prolific people, 3) slightly scummy people, etc potentially killed by the scum who are afraid of townies they can't mislynch. It is someone trying to take control of the game and figure it out, hopefully trying to manipulate as many people as they can.

Plus I don't think KA would just come out and say that after his Day 1 position.

I am upset with Bert over the hammer too. I didn't mention this earlier because I didn't have time but I had said I was making a catchup post and when he hammered was right around when I was going to post my progress. But of course, locked thread with hammer for no reason really, and yay two hours gone.

I saved some of it and I will be continuing now.

I also want to say, with the SK likely dead, the vigilante claim would have easily been proven and we could have a conftown person. I seriously doubt that scum, even in a self professed bastard game, would have an additional kill alongside with whatever LS had (probably a kill).

[Oversoul]

Because scum vigs in 13p games are so balanced.

There's a difference.

What is this responding to?

[Oversoul]

I am also a little bit perturbed at the hammer because the vig could've meant we could deal with dead weight like MafiaSSK and whoever else becomes deadweight over the course of the game if Mir was alive at that time.

[Oversoul]

And what is this succubus, morph? Did they send you a message?

[Oversoul]

Whenever I see succubus all I can think of is Rosario.

smh

[Oversoul]

<--- Confirmed not a succubus. I was waiting to see if Oversoul was going to complain today. Since he didn't I'm going to assume he didn't notice me redirect him to SSK last night.
Bulba: Bert's role was confirmed sterday, if you mean the doublevoting part.
Also Hammer wasn't unexpected tbh considering how Bert was talking about probably hammering despite claim.
Will post more later once not killing pirates!

Did you confirm that you successfully redirected me?

[Oversoul]

I don't really have an active ability per say, and even then it isn't one that gives me direct information.

[Oversoul]

I only wish I could purge slots.
My role is weird and I don't understand it really, but it is mostly defensive.

[Oversoul]

I actually think TSO has a good chance to be scum despite game play's replace out post.
TSO hasn't made himself obvtown yet which is distressing me. I have a partial case constructed, it's just not finished yet.

I also thought Bert was scum because of his hammers considering how morph died but apparently I was wrong.
Bulba is town because of IA unless Rubicon is also scum, but I don't think scum would tie themselves together like that.
KA I think is town for how he handled Day 1. I thought SSK was town for his MD thread discussion but that never panned into anything. I keep getting fooled by early game play and that is bothering me since historically my earlier reads are more accurate.
Varsoon/Shadoweh could be scum? I dunno. Not really much content in that slot to analyze. Will require a reread.
Rubicon like I said, would have to be scum with Bulba. Unless Rubicon went with gambit of sorts fearing his own lynch. With what he said it would only be logical to flip Bulba after a Rubi-scum flip, whereas if Bulba flipped first than Rubi could probably coast on the flip + interactions. Hmm. I'm not sure how likely that is.

I will give my case on TSO later. Hopefully he obvtowns and proves me wrong. I'll be back in like 10 hours.

[Oversoul]

I also thought Bert was scum because of his hammers considering how morph died but apparently I was wrong.

What do you mean by this?

If the MafiaSSK lynch triggered the suicide either because of something someone else did or MafiaSSK's actions I could see Bert hammering the day before to hammer a MafiaSSK the next day in order to draw less suspicion.
I sometimes get carried away with plays the scum may want to do for MASTER PLANS

[Oversoul]

Hm.
Like 8:2:2:1? There's only been one kill per night. We don't know what her role was... she could have been SK but if so she didn't kill anyone. There was speculation that she might have been cult.

That was me because my role is weird. But that actually reminds me.

Nati, does committing suicide go through Bulletproof?

[Oversoul]

Probably not other than what LS was. 8:2:2:1 is insanely swingy and there would need to be more apparent protective roles to justify that composition.

We would have seen at least one other kill.

[Oversoul]

Thank you for the information we probably already had.

[Oversoul]

Yes yes

More of this
If you catch my drift >_>

[Oversoul]

@TSO outrage

[Oversoul]

I think because Gameplay's actual posts were scummy and you haven't really done enough to convince me I am wrong about that read

[Oversoul]

Fine
Be a basic betch

[Oversoul]

It's apart of my case. Once I get home I'll post it
Have I not posted the part I had completed?

[Oversoul]

I did think gameplay was town for the replace out, but I am not sure anymore after reading back through the thread

[Oversoul]

I did for potential cult things but I don't think there's a cult anymore

because I am an idiot

After rereading though I think those posts were just filler

[Oversoul]

There is no benefit to doing things I can be caught out on if I'm lying, and if I'm not lying then I would have to be scum wasting my powers, in a game that probably only has two scum.

What do you mean by this statement?

[Oversoul]

The last dependent clause I mean

Do you think two scum total (MafiaSSK + x) or two scum left (MafiaSSK + x + y)?

[Oversoul]

It showed that he was honestly considering changing his play style and I felt like he wouldn't risk talking about his play style as scum in case he would get mod killed and hurt his team. Most people who post things in MD about topics related to ongoing games and such are town. They don't feel that pressure to shut up about it because town just have less inhibitions.

[Oversoul]

I'm not. If I was scum I would have gladly bussed MafiaSSK for town cred + the morph kill.

[Oversoul]

I am Vivian from Paper Mario Thousand Year Door, Heroic Companion, a weird variant of an ascetic

Will be bake in an hour, more then

[Oversoul]

Just going to preface the case for gameplay as, his replace out is very odd considering he /in'd to another game BEFORE replacing out of this one because he was bored.

His reasoning that he was not here at the beginning so he doesn't want to try to catch up?
But he is bored?

Yeah, don't trust that.

It isn't a post by post analysis, but it is just going to be a run through of particular posts that I did not like when I did my reread. Out of Gameplay's 65 posts, not many of them have much scumhunting which gives me trouble about that slot.

Not really. I just didn't have the opportunity to place my RVS vote and I wanted to do it now.

He posts this as if it is something he *has* to do, running through the motions to appear active, let alone town.

Why does my post seem unsettled exactly? Also what producing reactions did I have to make?
About the suspect. If I have to be honest I don't know. I don't have a suspect and I am kinda confused because I missed some of the first pages. For now I am kinda having doubts towards morph, KA and Bulba. Not much of an explanation for those doubts, just some things I didn't like and some gut feelings.

Prime example of Gameplay basically just doing nothing and trying to feign content. He says he missed some of the first pages but he also never makes any effort to go back and read them. What?

His explanations for suspecting people are left to be completely guessed about. While he did have a more townie post earlier, responding to Bert's quote strip of him, gameplay's scumhunting and content is lackluster and leaves a lot to be desired.

Now that we have MafiaSSK flip this makes a little more sense.
I think he got tired and drained because he was scum and didn't know what to do. Apathy as scum is a common feature. It happens all the time here. Especially with a new player who might not know how to play as scum, combine that with the fact that MafiaSSK is a partner and you've got an underwhelming buddy to discuss things with that likely only fed gameplay's own lurking+general apathy.

I like 264 by gameplay but posts like those are too far in between to make up for an overall scummy iso. While it was mostly defensive, he was at least responding in full to LS. And then... it just kinda stops after that.

Sorry I am kinda lurking lol:@. So I really dont have anything to say and I even havent read the walls. I will try to do something useful

The honesty is a plus for gameplay but why would he be lurking? Especially when he eventually signs up under the pretense that is bored. Why would you lurk if you were bored? Why would you lurk, then replace out, claim to be bored, while also simultaneously claiming to have a great role in your replace out post?

It makes no sense to me. At all.

Ugh I am so bored and I don't know shit about this game :@@@@@@@@@@@

VOTE: Bulbazak because I didn't actually like his read on Bert and especially the reasoning for it.

Here comes the bored comments as his justification for not posting much. His vote, while original, is just throwing itself away. A tactic that I could see scum doing so that they can try to appear like a contributing member of the game but in reality are just place holding their vote.

So you are lynching me because I ain't posting? Huh. There are far bigger lurkers in this game. Still just tell me when to claim.

I hate this post. It is basically "why vote me when there are others worse than me!" which is a big indicator to scum in my opinion. He doesn't try to say that his lurking is town, just that others are doing it so why target him specifically. It is a very reactive post. The ending sentence makes me hesitant a little because Gameplay goes on to harp about the claim thing (which again is weird and doesn't make sense for why he replaced out).

So I will be happy in some of the players on the my wagon can give me specific reasons why I am scum. I don't really have anything to post so you will just give me the opportunity to do so. Also Bert the gameplay is lurk scum is shit. I have seen a lot more lurking town so come up with something else. Also if somebody wants my claim I can gladly give it.

Basically a repeat of the last post I quoted, but this time it is more defensive. It is also much more reactive which is what a scum mindset vs town mindset at their most basic form divide into. Scums are reactive, whereas towns are proactive. He is saying he won't respond until people give him something to respond to. That is not pro-town.

Eh I am just saying that the excuse that I am lurking is not viable. Butttt ok I can give my reads ( not quite interesting tho )

Morph - leaning town. That's why I unvoted them tho. I like how they are actively posting and pursuing. It gives me a nice feeling.
Bert - I said I didn't like his claim. I don't like his push on me too. Still besides that I don't have much. It is null - leaning scum.
KA - hm he was actively posting, now I don't see him much. His posts that I skimmed through gave me a minor town vibe but for now it is a null.
Mafia - null. I don't know any of his posts.
Bulbazak - the one who should be voted imo. His reads are strange, I don't like his logic too. I don't remember something specific but it's a lean scum.
Shadow - hm I didn't have a read on Varsoon but Shadow is trying to be useful at least. Good null feeling.
Mirhawk - his vote on him was opportunistic. I didn't like it. Null - leaning scum.
LS - hm he is nice. He is being contributive and is actively searching for scum. Leaning town.
IA - hm I don't remember anything besides his claim. Null.
Oversoul - eh not much about him. I didn't get the vote on me. Null.
Rubicon - again I didn't get the reason for his vote on me. Besides that Null.
Beast - hm he hasn't posted much but Maruchan really tried ( not that I read his wall tho ) . Still a positive null read.

This is prototypical scum game, put a lot of your reads into null so that you don't have to commit to a strong read on your own buddies. It opens room for the scum to move their vote around fluidly without much reasoning. I recently caught a newbscum following this logic as seen below:

Post is from Event Card Mafia (a finished game)

Look at his interactions with flipped scum. I would say he has scummy interactions. However, PF has traditional null-type interactions with flipped scum, i.e. not wanting to directly interact with them. I think both of those interactions are the same side of a scum coin, but either can be a symptom of a play style. I don't really see it being ZZZX or TIP. Well maybe TIP for Nacho's defense. I can't see it being Aronis for the dayvig thing either.

So we are turning on BC? I see there are only 15 min so.
VOTE: BeastC.

And here is the fluid vote moving in action. He had BC as a positive null lean, so nulltown.

Wait did I just hammer?

This looks like the typical fake reaction to doing something scummy. He wants to look ignorant of his own actions to make them look less horrible.

I think this blue color means 3rd party

At first I thought this was a townie thought process because of my own role, as ascetics can't get recruited to my knowledge. But there was a strong fixation on trying to figure this out by gameplay and he felt fairly strongly it was third party despite not knowing much about Nati's procedures (see the question about roles flipping). Maybe the conviction behind these statements are because he knew Mafia was red?

Maybe Bulba is some kind of an Ascetic?

I at first was thinking the same thing but when Bulba claimed third party it made a little more sense. I don't really know anything about any of the flipped characters other than the Pokemon.

How would gameplay know what an ascetic is despite being such a relatively weak and new player? I have to go into his games to see if an ascetic was mentioned but from a search it doesn't appear to be mentioned.

So apparantly I was wrong about Bulba. I still don't know what is so bad about my vote and why I am a VI. Yet I will move my vote.
VOTE: Mirhawk
He has beem awfuly quiet and also his vote on me was with one awful reasoning ''gp is a lurker and so I will vote him even though there are far bigger lurkers who I hope will replace out''.
One more thing. I didn't get any of the roles people claimed so far. So IA is cop? Bert are you some kind of a double voter medium or something?

Complacent here to get the least amount of reaction from the other townies, 100%. Moves onto Mirhawk at the request of other players. He doesn't truly believe his own convictions.

My town lean on shadow is via gut.
@Shadow I still dont get why rubic waited so long to say he targeted bulba.
Sorry but I wasnt able to answer the ka and over things. I will do it but idk when

More weak reasoning to keep things fluid for himself.

His comments about KA and myself are also weak in my opinion. He doesn't expand on anything or really try to scumhunt/question people.

OK so I just iso-ed KA and he was boring as hell. Yet he is now a nulltown. Basically he posts a lot of fluff especially in his first posts which I honestly didn't read too deap into. He hasn't done anything major anti-town until this point and so he doesn't really bother me. And I kinda skipped his last posts but eh...

Oversoul is the same. Eventhough he has a lot of fluff posts and is kinda lurking ( I know, I am too ) , there is nothing major that can come from scum ( except maybe his vote on BC ). That's why I list him as null.

I don't have anything specific it is mainly gut and impressions that I got from the posts I read on their iso-s.

Continues the nullstuff to avoid giving real contribution to the game.

I read up over the last few pages. I thought Bulba was town based on IA and Rubicon both claiming to target him? If Bulba flips scum does that mean Rubicon is scum and is now going for some balls to the wall gambit?

I have to think about the possibility for a heavy handed bus from Rubicon. Or maybe even a PR that can choose the kill flavor. From what I remember, Bulba claimed early on in the game, before that first nightkill with Fang Bladed attached to it. But I may be over thinking this

TSO also didn't really ever town it up like I asked him after *cough*
which gives me worries about the gameplay slot even more

He had one lash out, but nothing concrete enough to solidify a town read on that slot at all. Didn't even really catchup that strongly either

Based on everything I think Bulba/Rubicon/SK contains the last scum

My role is odd and fairly defensive where I like offensive roles like an invesigation and such
I can select a target to make an ascetic with myself a lower priority than roleblocks according to my pm.

I also only become ascetic if I successfully make someone else ascetic except on the first night

[Oversoul]

I mean its bastard and a flavor type game like this, a role that can cahnge the kill flavor would be pretty cool

*cough*

[Oversoul]

Your defense of Bulbazak is noted, don't worry.

Why don't I know your read of Shadoweh?

Here we go again.

Probably town for her claim on me although I was not a fan at all of varsoon's post or her early replace in posts

[Oversoul]

The roleblock aspect. Ascetics are at the top of NAR

And what do you want me to believe? Bulba saying he is a recruitable person, with IA targetting him, getting roleblocked confirmed, and you claiming you targetting him but now you are pushing for his lynch. I don't really remember anything of yours from early game regardless so this is suspicious of me. But no, now you're getting all high and mighty and condescending.

[Oversoul]

No it makes perfect sense

Varsoon did diddly squat.
Shadoweh did diddly squat until she claimed she redirected me (which I'm not sure if that worked given my role). Then when she came out today and was basically softing Jack of All Trades all over the place it looked town

But you know, you think you solved the game so there's that.

[Oversoul]

Why aren't there more masons than just you two? It sounds like this ability is unlimited.

[Oversoul]

I haven't targeted Bulba

[Oversoul]

I didn't target Shadoweh last night

[Oversoul]

I don't really believe SK because of Gameplay's "I have a good role" and his eagerness to claim. I would vote Bulba but I am afraid of him self hammering to curtail discussion if he is scum but SK needs to be truthful

[Oversoul]

Hmm...

I wonder if MafiaSSK ever tried to target me or one of my targets
Probably not me because I would have gotten a succubus message like Morph

[Oversoul]

A VT though? I guess that makes sense for the /emo reactions in the early game? I would be sad if I drew a VT role in a power madness

[Oversoul]

If you look at how much power the town has it could be posssible we had 3-1 and Bulba was just there to fuck things up. We weren't promised balance in this setup.
I supose trying to convince you that you're scum isn't exactly going to work though. :V

A VT though? I guess that makes sense for the /emo reactions in the early game? I would be sad if I drew a VT role in a power madness

It seems like every role madness game has to have one nowadays. Oversoul, are you not worried about how I've cut the actions tonight to you = scum?

But they don't...

[Oversoul]

But they don't...

Well everyone except you and Bulba are accounted for. Who do you think the other scum is at this point btw? If of course Bulba is scum allowing you room to actually not have been the default killah. I thought KA had a good chance of it tbh but he's kind of out of the running.

Yeah, I supose that would have been ew.

So my role is a little more explainable now I think.

Basically after any interactions with my action are complete, I target another player and make both them and myself Ascetic for that night.
That's what the roleblocker thing was about, but I also think that your redirect actually made me target MafiaSSK and make him Ascetic given my understanding of Nati's resolution system

I honestly had no idea how to even use my role because it is fairly negative utility. It is basically useless in my opinion unless there is an abundance of scum investigative power and very little town interactive power (roleblockers, doctors, trackers, etc). Do you hope to hit self targeting scum like a Mafia Doctor protecting a buddy? Do you use it on VI town hoping they will just die from a vig and have no interference from anything else? Do you use it on someone to make them immune to roleblocks? Honestly it was a hard decision.

I used it on Bert N1 with the hopes it would prevent a roleblock on him, also I thought he was fairly well read as town so less likely to be targeted by other town actions.
I used it on IA with the same hopes because I found his ability to most likely be a problem for scum. I almost did it on KA but I felt like he could be lurking and didn't want to interfere with a town investigative action, that was redirected to MafiaSSK by Shadoweh potentially
I targeted Shadoweh last night without much thought but I thought she was fairly town for her confession the previous day and a redirector that could prove problematic for scum

I'm not scum and I haven't "given" up like you say, Rubicon. If Bulba is scum I think that looks bad on you but you are now a "mason" with KA and I am not ready to finalize the day and hammer Bulba because I am worried this is a scheme to secure a MyLo mislynch if it is MyLo

[Oversoul]

ebwop: not completely ready yet

[Oversoul]

Yeah that was my bad

For some reason I kept thinking I targeted Cabd

[Oversoul]

Oh thank goodness Rubicon and KA are definitely town.

What prompted this?

[Oversoul]

I don't know what to do with you.

I mean, I'm right there with you haha. Mafia hasn't really been interesting me lately but I get it, that is no excuse for my piss poor performance here

Without you two as options, I think Bulba > Gameplay > Shadoweh
Bulba is really only because of the flavor thing you announced earlier with regards to the kills. I thought with two different people targeting him and him claiming his role like that he was basically an IC

[Oversoul]

I don't know how Nati resolves anything in this game but if I was you I would ask what result would be given for an interaction like that.

[Oversoul]

I would ask but I feel like he would only ask someone who would need clarification on how their own role worked

[Oversoul]

Answer someone*

[Oversoul]

It technically is? What would you consider an activatable BP or PGO?

[Oversoul]

hey oversoul is your power compulsive

Nope, I didn't action last night inc. are anyone wanted to investigate me. I wonder if there's a third party just floating around and there were only two mafia.

[Oversoul]

Inc = incase

[Oversoul]

VOTE: Sleepykrew

[Oversoul]

Did you not see the fake claim Bulba was given?

[Oversoul]

Well, I suspect that there was no kill because I redirected Oversoul to Bert?
Speaking of targetting dead people, Sleepy targetted morph the cat. You might have noticed I was confused because morph had died that day phase. That's when I found out dead people are considered legal targets for any action.

If you thought I was scum why didn't you redirect it toward myself? That would have confirmed whether or not I was scum. I think you're lying.

VOTE: Shadoweh

[Oversoul]

SleepyKrew wasn't able to be masonized? Shadoweh probably the dumb townie in that case and fell into SK's hole. But why would he no ki?

VOTE: SK

GG scum.

[Oversoul]

Oversoul wanna play hangman?

_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
One word
You get six incorrect guesses.

replace me

[Oversoul]

Because an ascetic townie/maker makes no sense to me other than to stop late resolution actions.

My replace out wasn't serious. It was me telling Skrew to bugger off or hammer me. I'm clearly not going to be able to convince anyone of anything, so why even bother at this point.
After I die, look at SK (who can't even be arsed to read the thread about Bert's role). The masonizer failing is as close to a guilty as this game will ever have but Mr. Arrogant (Rubicon) doesn't even believe his own role (when it proved itself on Bulba scum).

I'm not moving my vote. So either run yourselves into LyLo with my lynch or lynch confscum Skrew.

So you can't redirect people back to themselves but you can redirect them to dead players... Great game Nati.

[Oversoul]

Cult is not specifically mentioned in my role PM.

[Oversoul]

well I feel like my role failing could just as easily mean I was roleblocked or you made SK ascetic at some point and lied about it. It

might

be a guilty but I can't really treat it as one, can I?

I hope you're okay with having this town loss ride solely on your refusal to be a competent town player.

Who else has been roleblocked this game, explicitly? Save by hmm... Bulba to IA? Maybe you know... BUBLA was the roleblocker.
But yeah, thinking too hard.

[Oversoul]

I already said I'm holding off just in case KA has anything to say. But I'm feeling pretty damn confident.
I was considering humoring you regarding your Shadoweh vote and unvote but then again I decided not to.

Oh yes, try to look like a good little townie. I am totally watching out for town's best interest by waiting for everyone to come in!
Hint: he is a mason with Rubicon, so either way KA's words will be heard.
Hint: you are supposedly a reviver (two shot?) that has not revived anyone this game despite multiple opportunities and plenty of good options. But hey, you didn't read because you didn't have to. Because you're scum.

But yes, everyone is eating out of your hand.

Good, let them choke on your poison.

[Oversoul]

Well, I think you kill was better than oversoul simply because oversoul would have been redirected to MafiaSSK.

In hindsight, I should have made Oversoul's Sniper Mode go through redirections too.

[Oversoul]

Why did you kill us

Playing very aggressive like a strong PR, townie looking, unlikely to receive doctor protection, etc
We did town the biggest favor by killing you night 1. :shrug:

[Oversoul]

This makes the third scum loss in a game with revivals/time travel.

If someone had been revived I would have replaced our immediately. That shit is seriously not fun as scum.

[Oversoul]

And my replace me comment to SK was not actually a replace me request, more anger at SK's arrogance (which was completely founded, but caught me at a bad time

[Oversoul]

Oversoul, replacing out is not something to be used in that manner. I can understand your frustration, but it's really meant as a last resort when you absolutely have no way to continue playing. Replacements add work for the mod, create a disconnect in the gamestate, force another player to read and become involved in a game they did not experience first hand, and in LYLO, is just.. irresponsible and rather rude. It's not to be used as an escape from a player you are having difficulty with. If you have a problem with a player, it is best handled via the mod and/or the reporting system.

I really enjoyed playing with you here, I really did. Please take the above as advice for the future, and nothing more. <3

I know, Nati even asked me if it was fake because it came out of nowhere. I wouldn't have done that to her or the other players. I'm just depressed right now.