Mini 1626: Duck Tales Mafia (Game Over)

[Bulbazak]

Shabooi!

Vote Total Wreck

Pasch pings as well. The shiny pokémon is town.

@Kitty: Why did you ignore the TW back and forth?

[Bulbazak]

BTW, what's your issue with pasch? -I'm really liking him so far.

This feels fake:

Using magic to trick someone instead of True Love™... I just won't stand for it!

VOTE: Total Wreck

Seems the scummiest out of the 5 people talking.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba thinks everything I say is scummy.

That's actually not true in the slightest.

[Bulbazak]

Anyway, Total Wreck is probably town.

Why?

Because it'd never be this easy to lynch them as scum.

Do you have some experience with House that would back this assertion up?

I think I've played with pasch once and he was lynch bait, everything he seemed to do was scummy. I think I was scum in that game. I could be remembering badly though. It was back in my reverend days. His comment about everything he posts looking scummy, it pinged but then again town can ping. I'm in no hurry to jump on pasch.

mastin's lunge at me is extremely fabricated. She's gone from "best guess for #3" in the first of a flurry of five posts, then the next four all mention me casually as scum. But there's no reason for it whatsoever. At best it's a bad gut read, at worst she's looking for targets. Feels a lot more like the latter. She's concerned about my first vote? That makes no sense.

VOTE: mastin

This feels fake:

Using magic to trick someone instead of True Love™... I just won't stand for it!

VOTE: Total Wreck

Seems the scummiest out of the 5 people talking.

The first line feels a bit... forced? -Maybe? But that's not uncommon in RVS.

True, but this felt more forced than usual.

This feels awkward. The vote is obviously a rvs joke, farside was yet to post at this stage. But the tone of the post feels unnatural.

That's a good read. I tend to revise my posts heavily while making them. So, I'm not at all surprised if they come off sounding a bit less than organic. However, on the plus side, they tend to be very clear and free of errors, so there is little miscommunication.

Anyways long story short I find it odd she proclaims me as scum. Typically when I've gad votes of that nature as a joke it was because the player has played with me when I'm scum and doesn't trust me.
Her reference of me is a town hammer, hence the scum read I have on her for weird reasons.

I couldn't very well have random voted you for being

town

, now could I?

IF they're scum, though, DOMO's the vote standing out the most on them.

And what if they're town? Which votes stand out then?

I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy playing with you, BTW.

Combined with her statement to DOMO makes me think buddying scum.

Everything I read from pasche reads exaggerated, explain town read.

Pasch is the player least guilty of exaggerating of those who could ever be accused of exaggerating. You'd have better luck accusing me of exaggerating.

Um...What? Try again.

what is scummy about domo and romitelli?

I didn't say they were scummy; I said they were scum!

Which I know because of my VAST wealth of experience, and me seeing things nobody else sees.

You want me talking about people who're scummy (though probably not scum), well, then, that'd be the Total Wreck of a hydra.

Semantics are cute and all, but this is a non-answer. Try again.

Kitty's #128 is better, as is Pasch's #130.

That mastin is reading me as town despite my... peccadilloes... speaks either to her experience & insight, or her possession of outside knowledge (if she is scum, of course she knows I'm not... but why would she say so?)

I'm of the mind that she is town and worth listening to.

What makes you think she is town rather than WKing scum?

Arright, between TW, Mastina, Farside and I, this game should go smoothly

I don't trust mastin. Otherwise I'm good with this group.

Are you high? I townread mastin more than either of the others right now. Even me.

Nah, not really.

Meta House, I don't care about pressure votes. Or real ones, for that matter.

By all means, get yourself lynched stupidly and cost town information and time.

Good feelings gone now.

I'm pretty comfortable with my scum read of kcc at this point.
The back and forth between tw and her was pretty garbage scum hunting and inquiry from kcc

Really? Because I thought it illustrated a pretty solid town mindset.

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: kittycupcake

She's not even trying to look town.

ok to those who know mastin's game better than I do...

Does she have a tendancy to push scumreads on extremely thin grounds when town? How about as scum? Does she have a tendancy to bus buddies? I'm too lazy to go through her old games, metadiving is boring.

Mastin generally doesn't like to bus as scum. However, it should be noted that she is very aware of her own meta and will bend it as necessary. She's also adept at reading other players as scum, a skill that she uses to manipulate the town to great effect (example: Left 4 Dead Mafia). Lately she has been starting games with giving a bunch of reads without explaining them, usually with most of the players having not posted yet. However, I would also expect her to be aware enough to do this as scum, too, and her reads in this game just feel very fake.

[Bulbazak]

Leaning Bulbazak scum.

He has much incentive to indict mastin because she is a big threat to scum..

Actually, I normally try to get Mastin to townread me as scum, but I'm sure your theory is valid as well and wouldn't feature any backlash whatsoever.

[Bulbazak]

@Mastin: Remind me why Romi is scum again.

[Bulbazak]

Fair enough.

Okay then.
UNVOTE: Total Wreck
VOTE: Romitelli

Because Rom, despite several posts, hasn't done a single thing that even starts to resemble scum hunting.

mastin

is

town, though.

I'm leaning towards agreeing with you here. Though, I'm not nearly as confident as you seem to be yet.

I don't like this at all. This and the interaction leading up to it look extremely contrived.

What don't you like, and how is it contrived?

[Bulbazak]

When is it customary to claim around here?

When you're at L-1 and someone gives intent to hammer.

I would also like Pasch to answer Kitty's question.

[Bulbazak]

I'm not seeing town motivation in your posts. There's a degree of self-consciousness from you that I don't like and don't see as town. As for Pasch, I'm seeing fakeness from him. Particularly with the Kitty push, I'm seeing him trying to get a lynch over trying to figure out who is scum.

[Bulbazak]

I don't trust self-meta, and I've stopped reading other people's meta. I don't have time for it. You saying "Meta me." is not making me feel any better about you.

[Bulbazak]

If you were actually serious about looking back at your posts and figuring out what was town/anti-town play and improving, then you wouldn't be bragging about how anti-town you are. It's a smokescreen and a load of crap.

[Bulbazak]

So you think the Kitty/TW exchange was scum theatre?

[Bulbazak]

I really don't like this Kitty wagon.

[Bulbazak]

I really don't like this Kitty wagon.

either wking scum or partner
my gut says the former but that wont make me stop lynching kitty

R~

Wisdom, you can kindly go screw yourself. Not only is the Kitty wagon on a townread, but it contains 2 (now 3) scumreads and another player whose opening post didn't exactly give me town feels. Out of all the players on that wagon, you're the only one I'm fully reading as town. It's a bad wagon.

[Bulbazak]

Wisdom, one of these days you'll learn how to actually scumhunt. Why is Kitty scum? Why is everyone on her wagon town? Because that's what you're suggesting. You have taken zero interest in figuring out her or my alignment. If you thought my stance was BS, then you should have asked me how I came to my reads on everyone. I've been very clear on my Kitty, TW, and Pasch reads. Less so on my Aronis and Jeckel reads, mostly because they are developing. Aronis's first and only post is opportunistic as crap and exactly what I'd expect from scum him. Jeckel might be town, but his first post, which jumped on the emerging Kitty wagon, felt very mechanical. The only legit vote I've seen is Farside, and that looks to be largely personal. So again, what's the Kitty case?

[Bulbazak]

Why do I even bother...

@Farside: Thoughts on the other players that were on the Kitty wagon?

[Bulbazak]

Wisdom, if your other heads actually want to engage me to figure me out, or if you ever manage to get your head out of your butt, please let me know. In the meantime, please shut the heck up.

[Bulbazak]

Wisdom, one of these days you'll learn how to actually scumhunt. Why is Kitty scum? Why is everyone on her wagon town? Because that's what you're suggesting. You have taken zero interest in figuring out her or my alignment. If you thought my stance was BS, then you should have asked me how I came to my reads on everyone. I've been very clear on my Kitty, TW, and Pasch reads. Less so on my Aronis and Jeckel reads, mostly because they are developing. Aronis's first and only post is opportunistic as crap and exactly what I'd expect from scum him. Jeckel might be town, but his first post, which jumped on the emerging Kitty wagon, felt very mechanical. The only legit vote I've seen is Farside, and that looks to be largely personal. So again, what's the Kitty case?

I was the second person on the kitty wagon.

What does that have to do with your vote being opportunistic?

[Bulbazak]

I could personally go for Wreck, and farside atm. maybe domo. thoughts?

~L

Wreck is scum. Farside I'm trying to talk to and figure out. No clue on Domo yet.

VOTE: kittycupcake
She's not even trying to look town.

Explain why you think that.

Explain why you're questioning someone supporting your push in that way.

Explain why you're protecting Aronis (That's a lot of explaining...).

[Bulbazak]

BTW, I did get information from my discussion with TW: I learned a bit about what kind of player he is, how he thinks about the game, and what type of mindset and motivations I should expect/be looking for when reading him. -Which are all very useful things.

And what are your conclusions?

White knighting. It confused me too, but I figured it out using context

So, jumping in to defend a townie, then. -Is it used to refer to times when the scum is doing it to earn favor with

that

townie, when the scum is doing it to hopefully earn some respect for being right when that player later dies and flips town, both equally, both but usually one more than the other, or some other situation?

Both equally.

[Bulbazak]

And what are your conclusions?

I'd rather not discuss that much. -I have some ideas of what I should look for to discern his alignment, but spelling out in the thread what he should and shouldn't do to make me read him as town doesn't seem smart.

I was asking for your read on him.

[Bulbazak]

Actually, that was pretty town posting from Aronis. He's much more obvious as scum.

[Bulbazak]

I really don't like this Kitty wagon.

Got a better one in mind?

I could go for one on you, TW, or Mastin.

note; when bulba flips scum, look at all those attempts to discredit my push on him

R~

How in the world am I discrediting you?

@Mastin: Remind me why Romi is scum again.

Because he is?

Like, his posting's not only faked but also not original.

Examples please.

note; when bulba flips scum, look at all those attempts to discredit my push on him

Definitely in my mind as well.

Seeing as how you were scum in Chain of Command,the other game where Wisdom ruthlessly tunneled me, this statement definitely stands out. Town Mastin should know better than to say this knowing that I seem to be perpetually on Wisdom's tunnel list. This looks more like you fanning the flames.

you dont make sense, mastin. Romi is town

Pretty sure Romi isn't.

I think that we'll overall work together well in spite of this disagreement, though.

Yeah, you're scum. That's some hardcore buddying.

Feel free to, expect me to scumread you for it if you're using it as an excuse to not scumhunt and/or discredit our opinions

~R

I don't think you know what the word discredit means.

It's the enthusiasm that stands out as the dinstinct difference. This game, he waits until last to post, makes a couple of posts, then he's gone while others drive the conversation. It's similar in PC. But CoC he's much more involved through the inital stages.

In Playing Card, I made an RVS vote shortly before leaving to see a movie. When I came back, I had to fight off a wagon. In Chain of Command, I had access from the very beginning that allowed for those early interactions. As for this game, I posted about 4 hours after the game started, and that was because I was spending some time with family and that was the earliest time I could read the game. My activity in any game is related to availability, not alignment. If you want to double check, I have a whole wiki full of past games that you can look through.

Unvote

Vote Mastin2

[Bulbazak]

VOTE: Bulbazak

Out of his three scum reads, he picks the one last likely to actually get a wagon on D1.

That and other stuff.

I thought we were supposed to vote scum, not lynches that are most likely to go through.

Actually, that was pretty town posting from Aronis. He's much more obvious as scum.

You just really don't understand my game do you? Why do you even bother trying to read me?

I'm sorry. Did you want me to scum read you?

Seeing as how you were scum in Chain of Command,the other game where Wisdom ruthlessly tunneled me, this statement definitely stands out. Town Mastin should know better than to say this knowing that I seem to be perpetually on Wisdom's tunnel list. This looks more like you fanning the flames.

You might recall I actually WKed you in CoC for the towncred and buddying to you. (And because antagonizing Wisdom is always masochistic fun when I'm scum. ) Situation's not identical, true, but what's the scum motivation in me acting in an entirely-different manner?

I'm fanning the flames on you because, surprise! I actually think you're scum.

Except in this game, buddying Wisdom has the chance to pay greater dividends, given that he's universally townread. You're one to play the odds, and having Wisdom on your side is greater than having me on your side, especially since I'm more cautious of you after Left 4 Dead.

Shiny Hydreigon
KittyCupcake
DoubleSlap
Total Wreck

Aronis
farside22

Pine
Paschendale
DOMO

Eckleberg
Romitelli
Bulbazak

There's one or two inaccuracies, but close enough.

So why am I suddenly a stronger scum read than Romi, your pet scum read?

You never explained Romi, and you never will, because you can't.

YES I FUCKING HAVE.
His posting was a cliched random vote opener.
He has not put in a morsel of effort into scumhunting.
His posting has all been incredibly forced attempts to blend in.
His SOLE contribution to the game was a push on Kitty...which was a CARBON FUCKING COPY of farside's own Kitty push.

Romi is scum.

However, given that Romi is a new player, these are all null tells, and you would know that Ms. IC.

YOU CANT" SEE THROUGH THE KEYBOARD> YOU CAN'ET SEE THAT MY JAW IS TREBLING, SHAKINGM. YOU CAN'GT FUCLKIG

SEE

MY HANDS FUCKING TREMBLING. YOU. DON'T. FUCKING. SEE. THE.

HATRED

. COMING THROUGH.

For spontaneous rage, this is some well thought out prose.

To explain my earlier statement of why I felt your reads are lazy, I only need to point at Fire and Ice, Organic Chemistry Mafia, and InuYasha Mafia, where you also used the unexplained reads at the beginning of the game. However, in those games you were much more engaged in your reads and pushed them harder. You also had the tendency to dive into lecture mode and to generally get full of yourself. Compare that to this game, where Mastin's pushing of her reads has been limp-wristed. Her reads are just there, and she's not bothering pushing them. Instead of being an engaging force, Mastin is just there, a weak force at best. This is the exact opposite of what I've come to expect from town Mastin.

In Playing Card, I made an RVS vote shortly before leaving to see a movie. When I came back, I had to fight off a wagon. In Chain of Command, I had access from the very beginning that allowed for those early interactions. As for this game, I posted about 4 hours after the game started, and that was because I was spending some time with family and that was the earliest time I could read the game. My activity in any game is related to availability, not alignment. If you want to double check, I have a whole wiki full of past games that you can look through.

This is such an easy defence to my attack, that it's more natural to question my motive, rather than take your time to explain yourself. You're talking to me here like you have no concern whatsoever about my motive for suddenly finding reason to jump on your wagon. That's more concerning than the activity tell I picked up on, which can easily mean nothing at all.

To be quite honest the reaction I'd expect from town is something along the lines of "are you kidding me".

I'm actually not sure what to make of you atm. It is interesting that you didn't bother checking into any of that to test your theory and instead went the lazy conf. bias route. It looks like you're not interested in trying to figure me out at all.

And I'm not the one pulling the "buddy-buddy I'm a friendly townie" act in attempt to blend in. Your read is crap, get over it.

So I'm confused, does this mean that Mastin is a town read or a scum read?

On to page 22.

[Bulbazak]

I don't like that House supplied self-meta, especially the kind that can be manipulated so easily.

Pasch is scum, so we get a good lynch there.

Either I forgot about it during the holiday or missed it during your all caps rant, but can you point where you developed a Pasch scum read? Last I remember, you were calling him town.

that sounded to me like you wanted him to vote me.

Now tell me how making Pine post is wasting time plz

R~

A solo vote isn't going to do much.

And you are being disingenuous about my post regarding Pasche. I clearly wasn't reading him as town given my tone and attitude.

Sounding scummy, Wis.

Wisdom's right. That post was more about you pushing Pasch to vote his hydra than you calling him scum.

When Pasche flips scum, I'm tunneling the shit out of Shiny.

Remind me of this if Pasch flips scum.

what do you think of TW going from Pasche-null to Pasche-obvscum?

R~

I'm thinking we lynch it with fire.

bulba's reaction to me is really odd. Put yourself in the position of town who is being accused of an activity of the type I accused bulba of. You're town who knows I'm wrong, so how do you react? Are you fucking kidding me, what the fuck is this, something like that. Not to formally explain yourself without even the slightest hint of suspicion about my motivation for attacking. I don not think his reaction to me was that of a townie.

I also know town can follow the activity line of reasoning as well. Looking through the games actually lends a lot of credence to that. It is better to explain why that line of thinking is wrong, rather than just go "Nuh-uh" or yell that you're scum. If I'm to make a case on you, it won't be for piddly reasons such as that, but for something more substantial. I also expect it would take me awhile to see scum-you, as I didn't catch you until d2 in NY 165.

And then he confirms my thoughts that such a scumread isn't possible by failing to explain it and giving ridiculous excuses.

R~

The only way your bullshit post (and especially that sentence) makes any damned sense is if you hadn't been scumreading Pasche, then begged off for something inane.

But you did, so take your questions and shove them, scum.

This is a pretty solid misrep. I looked back at that post, and Wisdom is talking about how your sudden scum read on Pasch isn't possible. At no point does he say anything about his read on Pasch.

Also, if SH was town, scum would have latched onto an opportunity to rationalize voting for him and jumped on with their own reason, fabricated or not.

That literally I am the only one on his wagon supports my read.

There better be a wagon on this when I catch up.

ladies give it a rest please. I predict there's exactly one scum between you, and we lynch wreck today and if he flips town we lynch shiny tomorrow, and if he flips town then lynch me for lining up mislynches, then when I flip town blame shiny and wreck for shitting all over the thread on d1 with their so certain scum reads.

This looks pretty town.

Lynch Pasch and my vote goes away. Keep yours off him and mine stays on you.

But then wouldn't you accuse him of trying to appease you and keep your vote on him anyway?

On to page 30.

[Bulbazak]

i am completely relaxed and in no need of any perspective.

You

need to lose your town-tunnel and read what happened instead of assuming it's tvt.

I saw what happened. You were scumreading pasch. TW started scumreading pasch. You wondered why. TW isn't big on explanations. TW wondered why you weren't voting for pasch. And endless loop of miscommunication and chaos ensued.

no, thats not what happened. Thanks for confirming you haven't read shit

R~

That's precisely what happened as evidenced by the fact you still refuse to lynch Pasch.

So you agree that it was a miscommunication, implying town, yet you still call Shiny scum? Sorry, not buying it.

He didn't actually scumread Pasche.

I'm reading this post as negative towards pasch. Granted, it was obviously more about you, but I don't feel TW held pasch in high regard back here.

I reread that post, and it was less "You're scum!" and more "You better do something to appear less scummy.".

My vote is not personal and I'd like to understand where your town read in her comes from.

She appears to actually be trying to figure out the game and other players, as opposed to faking scumhunting.

also total wreck has less of a chance of being scum as kittycupcake

Why?

ftr seo and I just snapchatted about this game and it was pretty much "kcc hard defending tw" "oh really? im not caught up" "ya im bored" "yea boring" I guess I should probably catch up soon but yeah bulba is a poe plus I think I saw something analyzing his scum meta that sounded legit earlier whatever lol latersss

You need to stop being lazy and learn to actually read me.

^^ Doubleslap doing some pretty hardcore scumposting up there. ^^

Nope. That's just Marquis being Marquis.

Someone that knows mastin better....is she typically prone to react so aggressively and with such a potty mouth when called out? Reading her post on page 20 and it reads over the top.

Nope. I've never seen her do this.

doubleslap has bulba as scum thanks to poe on d1? Well done, that's impressive.

I hope this was sarcasm.

Also, if SH was town, scum would have latched onto an opportunity to rationalize voting for him and jumped on with their own reason, fabricated or not.

That literally I am the only one on his wagon supports my read.

That's pure bs. 4 people have posted since your vote. This reads as try hard.

I normally see try hard as scum motivated. Why don't you?

Self voting is completely unacceptable.

VOTE: Total Wreck

Lazy vote is lazy. And also opportunistic.

^Opportunistic

I haven't really been buying the Pasch wagon, but that's a big point in its favor

Switching back to my second highest scum read because they did one of the few things that's truly a hot button for me is "opportunistic"? No, it would be opportunistic if I used this to swap to someone I hadn't suspected before, as opposed to one of my strongest scum reads.

Not buying this. If you were simply switching back due to TW still being a scumread, you wouldn't have cited the self vote.

On to page 40.

[Bulbazak]

Town folk, please open the spoilered text at the bottom of this post.

Scum brethren/sist...ren... I would like to conspire privately with town members only, so I will ask you to resist the urge to eavesdrop on what I have to say to the townfolk. As you are ethical, moral criminals, I am sure that you can be trusted to honor our privacy.

Spoiler: TOWN EYES ONLY

It has occurred to me that there is probably one scum in {mastin/KCC}, but likely for reasons other than what some folks may already suspect.

Please pretend for the next 5 minutes that you town read me, even if you don't.

It's for a good cause!

Being the highly chaotic & anti-town player that I am, I have received a lot of support from people that don't really know me. Perhaps I should shut up and be grateful (and I am!), but I'm not one that knows how to shut up.

mastin's support is coming from a townie motivation. She's not stirring the pot. She's simply stating a read that is contrary to the narrative that a couple players are/were trying to create. She's leaving me to fight my own battles and create my own destiny, as it were... as any good townie should.

KittyCupCake, on the other hand, appears (to me) to have scum motivation in her staunch defense of me.
KCC has done far more than disagree with those who scumread me. She has been my shield and mouthpiece for days. She appears to have a vested interest in:

1) Keeping me alive because I create a chaotic environment which makes it easier for scum to relax/hide.
2) Building towncred she can cash in on after I flip.

I mean sure, mastin has made a few posts in defense of me, but KCC has taken on all my battles, intercepting Shiny Hydra's questions & accusations. I'm kinda surprised that Wisdom didn't seem to notice the blatant White Knighting.

If there is discord on a Pasch wagon, I'd be 100% behind a KCC lynch now.

This is scum posting. The whole "scum please don't read this!!!" is manufactured and fake, and he's definitely setting up a Kitty lynch with this post.

it was a gambit?
haha oops! well at least we're conftown now because our unquestionably genuine confusion due to interpreting a post incorrectly couldn't possibly signal any other scenario
right KFC??

Why is kitty still a scum read?

Same question to pasch.

Because her focus is entirely defensive. She's maneuvering, not scumhunting. She's looking to be townread, rather than find scum. Seriously, ask yourself who her scumreads are. Besides me, who has she really gone after? And how has she supported any of it? Could you honestly say you'd agree with any of her points on their own merit? Of course not, because she's not putting any effort into making any points. She's putting effort into ingratiating herself with people she thinks will protect her.

This couldn't be further from the truth.

So why am I suddenly a stronger scum read than Romi, your pet scum read?

Because the strength of the Romi read remained about the same (decently-strong), while the strength of my scumread on you grew (to be stronger). But note the fluidity in my lists; a lot of them have held a LOT of interchangeability positional-wise, because the list is just my best guess at to the strength of my reads in that moment.

See, my problem is that the Romi scumread just came out of nowhere, and then you just sat on it. You essentially had to continually remind yourself that you were supposed to scumread Romi. As for me, your scumread of me came after Wisdom started tunneling me, and it had a pretty clear intent of buddying Wisdom attached to it. Then, when Wisdom turned on you, you had to maintain that Bulba-scum read, which is why you started defending it strongly, even though prior to Wisdom's tunnel you had never mentioned me being scum at all (paranoia does not count as a legit scumread Mastin, and you know it.). Both reads come across as heavily manufactured and only being maintained because you have to keep up the illusion. I have not seen any natural progression from you whatsoever.

However, given that Romi is a new player, these are all null tells, and you would know that Ms. IC.

This was addressed literally ages ago, and given that Bulb is skipping over a lot of info, it's something that he had to have deliberately left in in spite of its obsoleteness.

Then quote it for me, because obviously I wasn't impressed by your reasoning.

For spontaneous rage, this is some well thought out prose.

THAT would be because it's real, and you fucking know it. The contrast between my rage in this game and the fakerage in L4D is so strong that I don't need to see things from my perspective to tell; blind men can do the same.

Okay, let's look at it:

YOU CANT" SEE THROUGH THE KEYBOARD> YOU CAN'ET SEE THAT MY JAW IS TREBLING, SHAKINGM. YOU CAN'GT FUCLKIG

SEE

MY HANDS FUCKING TREMBLING. YOU. DON'T. FUCKING. SEE. THE.

HATRED

. COMING THROUGH.

So ignoring the typing "mistakes" (some of these should be impossible if you're quickly typing, such as substituting > for . which involves the use of the shift key, impossible with caps lock), you have lines such as "you can't see that my jaw is trembling, shaking" which is designed to be aesthetically pleasing with the imposed pause that the comma gives. Mastin also puts emphasis on the words "see" and "hatred", again using the English language to make a point, rather than actually raging. Touches like these scream created rather than spontaneous and suggest that these sentences were designed to imply rage, rather than having actually been created by it.

However, in those games you were much more engaged in your reads and pushed them harder.

I'm basically single-handedly the reason we have a Pasch wagon going. I'm pushing plenty hard.

No, that would be Wreck. You've been pretty hands off this whole game. You may show up occasionally, but you don't have the impact that I'd expect you to have as town.

You also had the tendency to dive into lecture mode and to generally get full of yourself.

THAT was the ranting you yourself pointed out.

Lecture =/= rant. In those games I linked, you essentially stroked your own ego and turned the threads into mini Mastin academies. That is in no way similar to you trying to mimic Kuribo in this game.

Bulba is in my to watch pile for contradictions in 187

What contradictions?

and a bad vote in 422

How was it bad?

Pasche: I'm willing to forget everything you've done and start anew. Can you tell me what your scumreads are right now and exactly why? I want to see your full thought process behind each read.

R~

No you aren't, especially since you don't seem to understand what I've done thus far. You know who my scumreads are (one of them is you), and you know why. What no one seems to know, however, is why you're voting for me. You're the one who needs to rehabilitate their image, not me. The wagon on me is the most obvious mislynch in a long time, is really really obviously scumdriven, and nobody who's actually paying attention is going to join it. But you'll be called to answer for it, and you should probably start actually contributing useful content instead of just making noise.

I remember you being better than this as town.

Either I forgot about it during the holiday or missed it during your all caps rant, but can you point where you developed a Pasch scum read? Last I remember, you were calling him town.

Then you haven't been paying attention.

I've held the Pasch scumread for so long that I don't remember where it began.

Nope. Try again.

Really? I'm not allowed to have a tipping point?

I would have expected you as town to simply vote him. Using his self vote felt like over justification.

Unvote

Vote Total Wreck

Can someone explain why the wagon on Wreck-scum disappeared?

@Mod: Can we have a VC please?

[Bulbazak]

Bulba: I've been leaning town for tw sometime. I'm not the type to say one post makes them auto scum.
I noted you were not buying pasch scum read on kcc....so is he a scum read, thrown or null.

I'm not sure who you're referring to, but I'll answer both. Kitty is a town read. Pasch is a scum read that I occasionally waffle on when he makes a good post. He's definitely the weakest scumread I have, with TW and Mastin being much stronger. That being said, while I'd much prefer a lynch on one of the latter, a Pasch lynch would probably be one of the most informative lynches we could have. I would just prefer a lynch on a strong scumread over an information lynch on a weaker one.

This is scum posting. The whole "scum please don't read this!!!" is manufactured and fake, and he's definitely setting up a Kitty lynch with this post.

How am I less bothered by his suspicion of me than you are? -I get where his thoughts are coming from there. It's a reasonable theory, other than the fact that it's based on an incorrect remembering of events, but even then, I understand why he had the impression he did.

As for the "scum don't read this," I've

done

things like that as town. Actually, I've

only

done things like that as town.

No, that doesn't make him auto-town, but it's certainly not something I'd consider scummy.

I think you need to stop viewing him as Kitty2. It's clouding your judgement.

422 is a bit easier: I don't think I liked that you listed your scum reads as pasch (an agreed read), TW (an understood read), and mastin (a read I couldn't have more strongly disagreed with) and that you then placed your vote on

mastin

, of the 3. I noted it as being potential distancing with pasch. Obviously, it's a point that means nothing on it's own, but I wanted to remember it for when we got more alignment info, which is why I have you down as being worth monitoring and not really a scum read.

As a partially related aside, I actually really, really like your recent mastin analysis.

I should have probably been more clear with what I was thinking Mastin-wise. I was seeing a lot of evidence that pointed to her being scum, and she became a much stronger scum read, leading to my vote. I prefer to vote for my stronger scum reads, and I don't even think about consolidating votes until near the end of the day.

On the other hand, if you look at it from the perspective of a scum TW talking to a scum pasch about a town SH, then it's a simple (if not very stealthy) call for his buddy to jump on the wagon (which is partially why I have TW/pasch as an unlikely-maybe scumteam, though this hinting feels a

little

too out in the open to be true).

There's actually something else I saw that suggests a TW/Pasch scum team and is much stronger. I made a note of it in my catch up. See if you can find it.

You don't really need to panic anyway; there aren't deadline no-lynches in this game. It goes to highest voted.

I forgot this game had plurality.

[Bulbazak]

It's nice that you ignored my previous response to you trying to say that ranting/rage = lecturing.

[Bulbazak]

In those games I linked, you essentially stroked your own ego and turned the threads into mini Mastin academies.

Yes, which is what the fucking ranting was all about.

Wrong. Try again. I could quote from those games if you want, because they look nothing like what you were doing here.

Which is why I'm showing up where need be and saying what I can to help. Like dismantle tVt fights

If this was true, and Shiny and TW were townread for you, like you said, then why didn't you step in to dismantle their fight?

prevent wagons on town

I don't remember you trying to prevent or dismantle any wagons. Again, you've been very hands off this game.

and direct attention in the vague area I want it to (one of the four between you/Pasch/Rom-Mafia/Pine).

Coming on occasionally and saying "X is scum" for not apparent reason is not directing attention. That's feigning activity and scumhunting.

Unvote

Vote Total Wreck

Hell rises.

I'm so scared.

Shiny Hydreigon

- Pine, Aronis

DOMO

- Not_Mafia,

KittyCupCake

-, DrTJEckleburg,

Total Wreck

- Paschendale, Bulbazak, Doubleslap

Not_Mafia

- farside22 ,

Paschendale

- mastin2, KittyCupCake, Shiny Hydreigon,Total Wreck, DOMO

Seriously, those Shiny/TW wagons suck ass.

In contrast? The weakest vote on Pasch is DOMO. (Oh, and Bulb, note the order of the votes. Like I said. We have the Pasch wagon because of me. TW might have pushed it harder, and Shiny pushed it first. But both of them got distracted on tangents. I can't claim all the credit for putting them back onto it. But I certainly can claim SOME credit.) All the other votes are solid. Not only in reasoning, but in the players making the vote.

Thinking back on the votes, I can't remember why you voted, I think Kitty was trying to break the Shiny/TW fight up, and DOMO was a deadline compromise vote. Shiny/TW are the only strong votes on that wagon. And I seriously dislike you trying to take credit for the wagon because your vote was first on it when a.) that wasn't the case (Shiny was first and unvoted) and b.) you have done absolutely nothing to push the wagon.

As a partially related aside, I actually really, really like your recent mastin analysis.

Name it, because while I've had plenty of fucking people use BS, nobody's reasoning has stank more of bullshit than Bulb's. My rage was very much real, because my reads (the thing I was raging about), my alignment regardless, have been very much real. And Bulb's argument is attacking those. (If he attacked the

motivation

behind said reads, rather than 'doubting' the existence of said reads, that'd be more understandable, but aside from one quip I saw that raised a valid point about my style, he wasn't.)

I've raised many more points besides the fake rage one, and that point has to actually be the weakest of them all. Guess what you're focusing on?

Pasch is a scum read that I occasionally waffle on when he makes a good post. He's definitely the weakest scumread I have, with TW and Mastin being much stronger.

So let me get this straight, you think that a scumteam with me at the helm (because with that scumteam composition, it would be me), we'd decide to spontaneously (because it would not have been planned given the progression of the read) become power-bussers of our scumbuddy?

(No, seriously. I laughed, legitimately, out loud when reading this, and it's still making me chuckle. <--That emote is basically my face every time the thought's at the forefront of my brain when typing this.)

Left 4 Dead Mafia

Also,

That being said, while I'd much prefer a lynch on one of the latter, a Pasch lynch would probably be one of the most informative lynches we could have. I would just prefer a lynch on a strong scumread over an information lynch on a weaker one.

^Why Bulb is scum with Pasch.

I know. I have scumreads that I feel stronger about and want to lynch first. I must be scum.

Bulba, I find myself agreeing with everything you post about mastin (like, I even thought there is something off with her "rage misspelling" but didn't actually look for what it was exactly), but seriously, you're completely wrong on TW. That post you quoted from him is very town, not only because all that "scum plz dont read it" wording is not something scum would do, but because paranoia about people townreading you is largely a town thing. And Kitty's way of defending him WAS alarming at first glance and completely guarantees such paranoia.

Get on Pasche. We're not lynching TW, and as much as I'd like to clear my paranoia about Mastin asap, we're not lynching Mastin today.

R~

Wisdom, the further into this game we get, the more it reminds me of Left 4 Dead. Mastin was blatently scum there too, but the wagon couldn't go through because no one wants to lynch her on d1 (I should know, I was one of them.). It took a cop guilty to take her down d2, and still, she was able to poison the game enough to lead to a scum win. I do not want a repeat. We have too many experienced players in this game noticing that Mastin is off. Why that isn't raising red flags for anyone else is beyond me.

Bulba.....I really didn't like the case on tw.

What don't you like about it?

[Bulbazak]

@Wisdom: I understand your point regarding why TW might be suspicious of Kitty's defense of him, but Mastin also strongly defended and townread TW, and that was much more sudden than Kitty. Yet, TW never even blinked and townread Mastin for it. I'm having a hard time seeing both actions come from town.

[Bulbazak]

Can you rephrase the question? I'm not sure what you're asking.

[Bulbazak]

I thought you were saying you can't see both kitty and mastin being town defending him, but then i got it

Anyway, he did mention mastin was also defending him, but he found that one natural.

R~

And that's my point. Mastin's defense of TW was the most unnatural one, coming out of nowhere. Kitty's at least has some thought behind it, and you could see it coming if you were paying attention. The fact that he finds Kitty's defense suspicious and Mastin's not just doesn't sit well with me.

Town folk, please open the spoilered text at the bottom of this post.

Scum brethren/sist...ren... I would like to conspire privately with town members only, so I will ask you to resist the urge to eavesdrop on what I have to say to the townfolk. As you are ethical, moral criminals, I am sure that you can be trusted to honor our privacy.

Spoiler: TOWN EYES ONLY

It has occurred to me that there is probably one scum in {mastin/KCC}, but likely for reasons other than what some folks may already suspect.

Please pretend for the next 5 minutes that you town read me, even if you don't.

It's for a good cause!

Being the highly chaotic & anti-town player that I am, I have received a lot of support from people that don't really know me. Perhaps I should shut up and be grateful (and I am!), but I'm not one that knows how to shut up.

mastin's support is coming from a townie motivation. She's not stirring the pot. She's simply stating a read that is contrary to the narrative that a couple players are/were trying to create. She's leaving me to fight my own battles and create my own destiny, as it were... as any good townie should.

KittyCupCake, on the other hand, appears (to me) to have scum motivation in her staunch defense of me.
KCC has done far more than disagree with those who scumread me. She has been my shield and mouthpiece for days. She appears to have a vested interest in:

1) Keeping me alive because I create a chaotic environment which makes it easier for scum to relax/hide.
2) Building towncred she can cash in on after I flip.

I mean sure, mastin has made a few posts in defense of me, but KCC has taken on all my battles, intercepting Shiny Hydra's questions & accusations. I'm kinda surprised that Wisdom didn't seem to notice the blatant White Knighting.

If there is discord on a Pasch wagon, I'd be 100% behind a KCC lynch now.

Bulb didn't read the spoilered text. He must be scum!

Ultimate scum hunting.

Oh, you mean the thing with you suspecting Kitty for defending you? Yes, I obviously didn't read it and instead read your mind to get the information to talk about. So scum.

I seriously dislike you trying to take credit for the wagon because your vote was first on it when a.) that wasn't the case (Shiny was first and unvoted) and b.) you have done absolutely nothing to push the wagon.

On the contrary. I know very full and well I wasn't the first vote on the wagon, but that I'm the first CURRENT vote on the wagon proves why I

have

been pushing Pasch. See also, breaking up the TvT fight between Shiny and TW and directing their attention to scum enjoying the show.

Being on the wagon =/= pushing the wagon and you freaking know that Mastin! And don't you dare try to claim you broke up the Shiny/TW fight when you just finished saying that you were not around for the Shiny/TW fight.

Pasch is a scum read that I occasionally waffle on when he makes a good post. He's definitely the weakest scumread I have, with TW and Mastin being much stronger.

So let me get this straight, you think that a scumteam with me at the helm (because with that scumteam composition, it would be me), we'd decide to spontaneously (because it would not have been planned given the progression of the read) become power-bussers of our scumbuddy?

(No, seriously. I laughed, legitimately, out loud when reading this, and it's still making me chuckle. <--That emote is basically my face every time the thought's at the forefront of my brain when typing this.)

Left 4 Dead Mafia

Oh, you mean the game where

from the get-go

, I set up a

cross-bus

with all my partners but

distanced rather than deathtunneled

them as to prevent them from getting lynched, all because I

planned my lynch

, knowing my meta and

intentionally subverting my no-bussing principle

? That game?


Yeah. I have every reason to laugh.

Left 4 Dead shows that you're not afraid to bus if it will lead to you being able to better manipulate the town for the win. Looking at you and TW, I am clearly seeing you position yourselves for a series of lynches following Pasch: TW on Shiny, and you on Pine, Romi, and myself. You could essentially use Pasch as a domino to win the game.

And it's just occurred to me that you've thought all of this out.

I can say this with 100% confidence.
I would never.
EVER.
Powerbus my scumbuddy D1 again, because I need scumbuddies alive to win. (Also, because I did the powerbus-buddy thing already. It was my ORIGINAL modus operandi back in 2011,

and

, there's a bastard-game micro where I deemed my scumbuddy to be a burden dragging me down so powerbussed them D1, meaning that people no longer think it unfathomable, thus, removing any possible appeal to it.) This isn't, like, a trust tell or anything, because it's not that I refuse to. It's that doing so is a dumb-ass idea, so I'm never going to do it.

The one thing that is certain Mastin is that you are master of your own meta. Saying that you would

never

use a strategy again just opens you up to use it when it's most convenient, and while the circumstances aren't exactly the same, I can see how it could be most convenient now. You haven't been arguing concerning anything real gameplay-wise. Concerning scumhunting, you've been pretty silent. However, you've been very loud about how you'd

never

do X as scum, even though everyone who is familiar with you knows that you can manipulate your meta at will as scum. This has all been a smokescreen, maybe that by arguing about it, you'll have room enough in the fog to still pull it off, because you might be able to plant enough doubt.

Unvote

Vote Paschendale

I just realized that you already set up the dominos when we weren't paying attention. The arguments haven't been about

if

Pasch is scum, but

who

he's scum with. You handed us a sure scum lynch in the hopes that we'd hang ourselves. If we don't lynch Pasch, then not only will we likely shoot ourselves in the foot, but then you'll focus on who kept the Pasch lynch from going through. If we do lynch Pasch, you'll then draw paranoia on who wasn't on the wagon, while pursuing those lynches that you have both promised you'd pursue. The only thing I don't get is how you both orchestrated your sudden shifts toward Pasch-scum, since neither of you were scumreading him beforehand.

[Bulbazak]

Mastin's defense of TW was the most unnatural one, coming out of nowhere.

Uh, aside from the "bussing?" comment, I've been defending TW the entire game. No, seriously. I called them, rather explicitly, scummy-but-not-scum basically immediately into the game. (And I already explained that reasoning.) That townread only grew stronger and stronger as the day progressed, so of course I was going to defend TW.

Except you never explained that read, even when asked multiple times. That's a townread that will normally cause paranoia, but TW doesn't react at all. Compared to Kitty, whose thought process and development of the read was quite natural, his showing paranoia of her read and not yours is unsettling.

Left 4 Dead shows that you're not afraid to bus if it will lead to you being able to better manipulate the town for the win.

Good luck explaining how lynching Pasch helps me manipulate the town for the win. I'm not exactly getting a ton of towncred from it as you yourself have noted, so there goes it being a bus-for-the-win strategy. I'm not going to get off lightly if Pasch is a mislynch, so there goes your mislynch-one-town-after-another idea, too. Regardless of Pasch's alignment, his lynch gives scuMastin nothing.

I'm seeing less you going for towncred and more you using the wagon as a means to push certain lynches d2 forward. You've already set up the lynches of Pine, Romi, and myself should Pasch flip scum. You might not get town read for a Pasch scum flip, but it would certainly strengthen your future pushes.

Saying that you would

never

use a strategy again just opens you up to use it when it's most convenient.

Not gonna lie, this is true in theory. In practice, though, it remains the truth. Because when I say there's nothing to gain...I mean there's nothing to gain, and I just demonstrated above why that is so. I get nothing from a Pasch lynch. Frankly, as scum I'd be likely to take the Tales route and lynch those scumreading me (ergo, you) so that I wouldn't have to waste my nightkill on them.

All in good time I imagine.

The only thing I don't get is how you both orchestrated your sudden shifts toward Pasch-scum, since neither of you were scumreading him beforehand.

This is why you're scum, by the way. You're fitting the narrative to the read, rather than the read to the narrative. The reason I shifted towards Pasch being scum in spite of not scumreading him originally is because my read on him changed from town to scum. See, as town, the thought goes, "Okay, but how come she shifted to scumreading Pasch? I can't see the scum motive in it. Maybe that means she's town and I'm wrong."

Except that you have refused to shed light on when this change of read happened, despite being asked about it. And while I can't figure out how you and TW timed it, I have been noticing both of you aligning yourselves in such a way as to take advantage of a Pasch scum flip, followed by Pasch's reasoning taking a nose dive.

[Bulbazak]

You are making excuses for not forming reads you can be held accountable for, and swinging at low hanging fruit.

I don't think either you or Mastin is low hanging fruit. Why do you?

i never scumread bulba? wat lol

The "Bulba is scum" sure had me fooled.

thats quite obviously not scumposting

R~

So it's quite obviously townposting?

It's Marquis, so probably.

thats quite obviously not scumposting

R~

It quite obviously is.

Lynching "null reads" = pro scum

And who would admit to wanting to lynch town? Of course scum is going to make a show of defending their "town reads".

This is scum reasoning.

The only thing I don't get is how you both orchestrated your sudden shifts toward Pasch-scum, since neither of you were scumreading him beforehand.

This is why you're scum, by the way. You're fitting the narrative to the read, rather than the read to the narrative. The reason I shifted towards Pasch being scum in spite of not scumreading him originally is because my read on him changed from town to scum. See, as town, the thought goes, "Okay, but how come she shifted to scumreading Pasch? I can't see the scum motive in it. Maybe that means she's town and I'm wrong."

Except that you have refused to shed light on when this change of read happened, despite being asked about it. And while I can't figure out how you and TW timed it, I have been noticing both of you aligning yourselves in such a way as to take advantage of a Pasch scum flip, followed by Pasch's reasoning taking a nose dive.

Nice deflection about my point of your thought process not being town. You're still doing it. "I don't know how you managed to time it" is assuming we're scum and doing an action through some mystical reason. Rather than, as town, thinking, "managing this is something I don't know how it'd be possible, so maybe I'm wrong". (Oh, and by the way, I can answer that. A possible explanation would be daytalk. But assuming you're scum, I don't think you have it because if you did have it, then you'd think of daytalk as a possible method it'd be possible.)

It did occur to me, as I've been seeing more and more games adopt daytalk. However, there was also that strange interaction between TW and Pasch, so I'm just going to go with what I saw and sort it out later.

Buuuuuuut, just for the heck of it, I'll go down that tangent anyway. The reason I haven't shed light on why the read changed is because simply put, I don't remember why. It just did. It happened. I don't know why. Even at the time, I'm not sure I'd have been able to have given a reason if asked, yet alone, well after the fact. My read changed. It changed so long ago as far as I'm concerned that I have no clue when it changed. It just did.

Okay. Now explain your early TW townread.

I will say, however, that Bulb's senseless tirade feels town. Expending such effort to link us together wouldn't benefit scum at all unless the first one lynched was a bus, and that would be a ridiculous amount to sacrifice for little old me.

Have you considered that, maybe, he's doing the exact thing he's accusing me of having done? That is, sacrificing Pasch in an attempt to paint us as mislynches? (Hey, I do it as scum all the time. My favorite scum tactic, in fact, is to reveal what I'm doing, but to project it onto someone else.)

It's flattering to hear that you think I might be at the skill level to manipulate people into believing a singular narrative, especially since I'm just getting back to playing the game after a several month break caused by massive burnout. If a breather is all it takes to go from sub-Mastin scum to being on par with Mastin-scum, players should take a break more often.

Unvote

Vote Total Wreck

As off as they are, I'm actually liking the more recent Mastin posts. TW is still scum. Don't know about Pasch since that read is too tangled up in all that junk. I'm not sure what I should be looking for anymore.

[Bulbazak]

I definitely think you're barking up the wrong tree with Pine, Mastin.

You're still. not. addressing. the. point. "I'm just going to go with what I saw (in spite of it not lining up with the evidence) and sort it out later."

That's literally what you're saying.

I thought that was what I was saying? I saw what looked like coordinated actions from you and TW in relation to the Pasch lynch. I saw that both of you had created a web centered on the lynch and on Pasch being scum, with those to lynch if the wagon didn't go through and those to lynch if it did. I also knew that Mastin-scum is very adept at manipulating the town and is more than willing to bus if the payoff is good enough, which this setup looked like it would be. I saw a repeat of L4D, and I acted accordingly.

Okay. Now explain your early TW townread.

Easy 'nuff. The TW townread came from looking at the circumstances surrounding TW and determining, not a chance in hell does this happen to an actual scum player. It's basically just the aura around TW--not only from TW himself, but from those treating TW as scum. Then, knowing House is TW, that reinforced my belief, as I saw his behavior, instantly identified it as being scummy, but knew that if he was actually scum, it'd not be like that.

That's some BS reasoning, Mastin.

[Bulbazak]

That's some BS reasoning, Mastin.

Maybe the terms (I invent my own), but not the reasoning itself; that

is

it, as best as I can describe it.

No, the reasoning is BS. The TW wagon has consistently stalled, and I don't like his being anti-town being used as a defense, especially since 1.) he's proven that he's self aware and 2.) other players have said this does not look like House's town play. This was early in the game when you were town reading him, so I don't buy those answers at all.

As off as they are, I'm actually liking the more recent Mastin posts. TW is still scum.

No he isn't. And I don't understand what you liked from mastin either.

R~

The self doubt and couple of posts afterwards felt really genuine. It was nothing like the cold hands off play we've seen so far, and for the first time, I could actually see a town Mastin thought process.

Also, explain why TW is town.

Ok so on mastin.

Why are people scumreading her again?

It was mainly because she was being really hands off in her approach to the game, and I could not see town Mastin in anything she posted. It was very cold and mechanical, not at all natural. Compare her early posts with #1334, and you'll see what I mean. Her more recent posts have been more fun and natural.

[Bulbazak]

scum reads dont have to be explained, nor understood. She scumreads bulba, and thats it.

R~

Except Mastin-town is more than capable of explaining her reads. She thrives off of manipulating people as scum, so not holding her accountable is giving her free reign. Frankly, Mastin

should

be held to a higher standard than most players, because she is that good as scum, and you don't want to give her any wiggle room.

farside is scum just so you guys know

R~

No she's not. What happened to that Mastin scum read?

scum reads dont have to be explained, nor understood. She scumreads bulba, and thats it.

If you can't justify a scumread, I have no reason whatsoever to think that you aren't lying about it. If I think you're lying about it, I certainly won't vote along with you, and will vote for you instead. If you don't justify a read, there's no reason to think you're right, and no one should vote along with you, and so you aren't actually pushing to get your suspects lynched. That means you aren't actually trying to help town win the game. Therefore, you're scum and should be lynched. Don't like it? Then justify your fucking positions.

Good luck getting through to him on that.

Seriously.

I've said pretty much the same thing in the past. He shrugs it off...

Aren't you scum reading Pasch?

[Bulbazak]

Except Mastin-town is more than capable of explaining her reads.

So fucking what? Mastin not playing to your idea of an ideal townie somehow makes her scum? Wash she even asked to explain the read? Why is it a big deal she didn't?

I respect your own points for mastin-scum but farside's ones are a bunch of bullshit.

R~

Mastin isn't playing like Mastin-town. Period. Now get your head out of your butt and get off of Farside.

[Bulbazak]

I thought her reasoning was okay actually.

[Bulbazak]

I thought her reasoning was okay actually.

Then you can't tell non-genuine shallow bullshit

R~

How do you think I was scumreading Mastin?

[Bulbazak]

Wisdom, you make me sad.

[Bulbazak]

Except Mastin-town is more than capable of explaining her reads.

So fucking what? Mastin not playing to your idea of an ideal townie somehow makes her scum? Wash she even asked to explain the read? Why is it a big deal she didn't?

I respect your own points for mastin-scum but farside's ones are a bunch of bullshit.

R~

Mastin isn't playing like Mastin-town. Period. Now get your head out of your butt and get off of Farside.

Is he playing like mastin scum?

Given that Mastin-scum can emulate her town game, that's hard to say. All I know is that she has not been playing the way I'd expect her to as town, and I take Mastin's play being off as a bad sign.

[Bulbazak]

scum reads dont have to be explained, nor understood. She scumreads bulba, and thats it.

If you can't justify a scumread, I have no reason whatsoever to think that you aren't lying about it. If I think you're lying about it, I certainly won't vote along with you, and will vote for you instead. If you don't justify a read, there's no reason to think you're right, and no one should vote along with you, and so you aren't actually pushing to get your suspects lynched. That means you aren't actually trying to help town win the game. Therefore, you're scum and should be lynched. Don't like it? Then justify your fucking positions.

Good luck getting through to him on that.

Seriously.

I've said pretty much the same thing in the past. He shrugs it off...

Aren't you scum reading Pasch?

How is that in any way relevant to my response to him?

Because it looks like you're treating him as town.

[Bulbazak]

How do you feel about the current Mastin wagon?

Conflicted. I'm looking at a history of hands off play this game followed by a few very genuine looking posts. The wagon composition also doesn't look terrible, with those on it voting for decent reasons. I'm actually thinking I want to give Mastin a little breathing room, though.

Would you like to join it?

Not at the moment.

Would you prefer a Shiny wagon instead?

No. Vote TW.

[Bulbazak]

That said,

UNVOTE: pasch
VOTE: not_mafia

Frankly, the wagon on me feels more towndriven than this wagon does. >_<

Are you scumreading Kitty? Also, weren't you scumreading the NM slot?

If Bulb was town, he'd have townread me LONG ago.

Bull crap. You don't get to use my scumreading you as a basis for scumreading me. That's BS reasoning Mastin, and you know it.

[Bulbazak]

If Bulb was town, he'd have townread me LONG ago.

Bull crap. You don't get to use my scumreading you as a basis for scumreading me. That's BS reasoning Mastin, and you know it.

I didn't say it was the basis of the scumread on you. I've had a scumread on you since the game began and your posting. It does, however, contribute one of the strongest reasons as to why you are scum.

I am 100% confident that if you were town by this stage, you would have seen as I see and realized that I'm town.

You have not, thus, you knew all along and are scum.

This is absolute BS. First of all, you did not have a scumread on me from the beginning of the game. In fact, you didn't even start scumreading me until after Wisdom did, and only because you were trying to buddy up to him. Saying otherwise is a lie, and it has been documented as recently as Farside's analysis (Part of why I liked it actually. It showed how unnatural your read progression was.).

As for the whole "Bulba is scum because he's not townreading me" nonsense, you know that's absolutely not true. It is true that I've gotten a little better at picking out your town game, as was the case in Organic Chemistry Mafia, but in that game I replaced in near the end of d1 and had the benefit of multiple Mastin posts to digest. My current strategy for reading you is to leave you alone until I can get enough information to sort you. There is no basis, therefore, for your claim that town Bulba should be reading you as town. I could see where you might have a basis if you wanted to go the "Bulba can't read me." route (examples being Fire and Ice and Left 4 Dead), but the whole claim that I'm scum for not townreading you is a load of crap. Heck, you should know my scum game well enough to know that my strategy as scum is to get you to townread me before killing you. This is well documented, as I talked about it in the scum PTs of both Lord of the Rings Mafia and InuYasha Mafia. I know that you would have read those, so there's no way you could be making this argument as town.

Unvote

Vote Mastin2

I can't believe I fell for that self-doubt crap.

[Bulbazak]

By post 122, though, it should have been clear enough. Since then, I've only been more and more blatant.

I looked back at that post, and I don't see what I'm supposed to find so towny. In fact, I had several problems with that post, which I remember pointing out. Also, just the fact that you point back at it and say that it's towny makes me distrust it even more.

[Bulbazak]

By post 122, though, it should have been clear enough. Since then, I've only been more and more blatant.

I looked back at that post, and I don't see what I'm supposed to find so towny. In fact, I had several problems with that post, which I remember pointing out. Also, just the fact that you point back at it and say that it's towny makes me distrust it even more.

And again...if you were town? You'd see what was town in there. That was the first post in which it was clearly shown, but I've only made it more and more obvious since then. So much so, that I don't think that I'd really be able to quote even close to all the signs. Maybe the strongest of them, or maybe the ones most strongly showing the town trend, but there's so. many. points. That I literally find it impossible for a town-you to not see what I see.

I can say it a million times over, and my response each time only grows stronger. Some people being blind and not seeing what I see I can understand. Not from you.

"Bulba is scum because he's not townreading me based on all my town tells which I can't show you because theyr'e...uh...super secret. Yeah." Bull crap Mastin. In fact, let's look at this game and compare and contrast (Even though it's abandoned, I double checked with the mod and have been informed that it does not fall under ongoing games.). In that game you were engaged, open, and willing to explain your reads, even if there really wasn't anything there. In this game, however, you've been distant, closed, and have made great pains to avoid explaining

any

reads, and when you can be prodded to explain those reads after much effort, they're based on BS reasoning that I wouldn't expect from town Mastin. As for the anger part of this game, you flying off the handle when somebody says that you're lying about your reads, something that should be par for the course in a mafia game, really comes across as fake when you compare the reaction to the open game where a player not only says that you're mentally disabled, but implies that you are crazy and shouldn't be trusted. Your reaction there is calm and collected, and you don't even react. So you want us to believe that as town you can handle an attack on your mental capabilities, yet you can't handle the accusation that you're scum and lying about your reads?

The only reads I feel confident in even mentioning right now are TW/House as Town and Mastin as Town. From what I can tell this is solidly their Town game

Explain.

We have no idea what is happening, but based on the last 6 posts, we assume that this is scum v scum.

Explain.

Even with TW, I don't see a NM lynch happening Today, as much as I'd like one.

Why not?

[Bulbazak]

The Pine wagon is a bad wagon, btw.

[Bulbazak]

Why? Because you're tunneling on Mastin?

R~

No, because it's based on a midgame from a replacement that could easily be attributed to apathy and annoyance. Pine's entrance to the game, as well as his recent posting, where he's straight up said that he's actually out of his slump, both are solid town posting. I'd also like to point out that in contrast to the Mastin and TW wagons, which keep dissipating (Mastin's lying about them being too easy. They are continuously stalling and falling apart.), the Pine wagon has been able to keep momentum since the middle of the game based on policy reasons.

P-edit: Mastin's not town. Not sure about PN yet.

[Bulbazak]

This means we're getting another week of d1, doesn't it?

[Bulbazak]

I'm lynching TW for that hammer.

[Bulbazak]

Wisdom, it's because he hammered without giving intent. I'll lynch that all day every day.

[Bulbazak]

Even if Pine is scum?

R~

Yes.

[Bulbazak]

The quickhammer is anti-town no matter what Pine flips, and it's mainly a matter of policy. However, given that this game has plurality, what town motivation was there for TW to hammer? Pine was getting lynched regardless at that moment. As town he should have been trying to get a claim and final reads so that we'd either avoid a mislynch or go into the next day with the most information possible. If Pine is town, TW-scum cuts off this line of information. If Pine is scum, then TW-scum prevents him from giving away the rest of the scum team.

[Bulbazak]

The mod was also replacing Farside. We had plenty of time for a claim.

[Bulbazak]

@DOMO: If I didn't already have TW as a scumread, that would be my argument.

[Bulbazak]

Are you saying that you think town Farside would have hammered to end the day and hope Shiny was killed?

[Bulbazak]

Well that was unnecessary.

[Bulbazak]

How do you know Pine was going to be lynched regardless? How do you know he wasn't going to claim something that would have stopped his lynch?

[Bulbazak]

I said "He was getting lynched regardless

at that moment

.". I then went on to say that stating intent would have given him time to claim and give final reads which a.) might have moved the wagon away from him and/or b.) given us more information to work with the next day.

[Bulbazak]

I'm unhappy with the way he was hammered. If TW had given intent and given Pine time, that would be a different story. And I was referring to the plurality clause, meaning that at L-1, Pine had the most votes at the moment and would have been lynched if nothing changed going into deadline. And I do not accept "The day needed to end." as a reason to just hammer without giving intent and waiting for a claim and reads. That's a cheap way out.

[Bulbazak]

Vote Total Wreck

@Farside: Why did you decide to remain in the game?

Also, Mastin is town.

[Bulbazak]

It's not a crumb. I reevaluated Mastin after the Pine flip.

[Bulbazak]

Well you'd say that whatever your alignment. Furthermore, it's extremly suspicious that your reaction to my comment wasn't to immediately question my motive. It's rolefishy as hell. Why didn't that bother you?

You said I was faking a crumb, which I could see, given that I just gave a townread on Mastin seemingly out of nowhere. I said I didn't. I could see where you got that, but it was wrong. I don't see how that reaction from me is role fishing, or how your reaction should make me suspicious.

[Bulbazak]

841 Why did my 10 page catch up warrant a vote when your 16 page catch up was pretty similar
...
House 1003 and on actually feel very town, settling on Pasch scum and House town.
...
Really dislike Pasch's refusal of the reachout in 1131

I'm not authorized to read this topic.

Vote Total Wreck

@Farside: Why did you decide to remain in the game?

Also, Mastin is town.

The mod had more then enough replacements.
As for why didn't I just hammer to end the day and cool down. I wanted pine to claim and I lost my cool over shiny' attitude. I thought about hammering and not giving two shits what pine claimed. I just felt I was acting anti town and needed to replace out before acting within my emotion.
Frankly I came back because of the replacement issue and because I really enjoyed ducktales when I was younger.

Ok.

Why did you fight for pages with mastin?

Because I thought she was scum.

I don't see how that reaction from me is role fishing, or how your reaction should make me suspicious.

I'm saying that if you're a villager, you should consider my comments at you to be rolefishing. I'm not accusing you of rolefishing me. I'm saying that you should accuse me of rolefishing. But you're scum so it didn't occur to you.

Saying that I'm faking a crumb is not rolefishing. This line of reasoning makes no sense, and this is the third time you've pulled something like this and is the entire basis of your scumread on me. Also, you pull this crap only when I come under suspicion, which makes me think that you're just trying to come up with a justification to suspect me.

No shit, sherlock. And you're the fucking bastard that blocked me last night.

Bulba, you haven't responded to this at all. -Can you?

I don't respond to stupid questions. Mastin is absolutely convinced by this point that I'm scum and is refusing to reevaluate. That statement from her is conf. bias.

We have no idea what is happening, but based on the last 6 posts, we assume that this is scum v scum.

Ok now this had me thinking town at the time. It felt weird that a scum hydra replacing into a game would wade into the current thread argument (me vs pine) without first of all calibrating with the other head or reading up to get some level of context. But knowing from my pov that the pine vs domo argument was scum - town, well it could be opportunism from PN's pov, giving him a mislynch target in the event pine gets lynched. He's already laid the groundwork to dismiss my contribution to the pine lynch.

PN I think you should read me in ISO with pine before you reply to this.

Why are you vying so hard for towncred from the Pine flip?

Why are you keen to cast doub over mastin? Eventually she'll be forced to claim and we can decide from there if she's worth trusting.

If I wasn't so determined on lynching TW, I'd definitely be voting DOMO.

@PN: Going off of Wisdom's scum list is a futile effort, since he was scumreading everyone at one point, and his scumreads moved around a lot. While I know I was on his list occasionally, I'm not even sure if that was the case at the end of the day. Do you have any other reasons to think I'm scum, or are you just going to continue to hide behind the dead guy?

@Mastin: I think we're in a similar situation to Fire & Ice, only I've broken out of my mutual scumread. You know enough about how I think as scum i.e. NKs to know that Wisdom is the last kill I'd make, since his making noise would definitely create a workable smokescreen for me (Plus, I'm a bit of a masochist. You should know that from Maniacal when I kept Nero alive for so long while fighting him. Heck, Farside knows this too, since that's what I did to her in Walrus & Carpenter.). If I really was scum who thought you were a PR, you'd be dead by now. Also, if I was scum in the first place, picking a fight with you is the last thing I'd want to do, since it's much easier to just get you to townread me and kill you off. Now stop being so pissy and reevaluate. Ask me questions if you need to. And get off of Kitty. She's not scum. You were saying how I shouldn't have missed some tells from you as town, well, I'm telling you that you are missing some tells from her. Let it go.

[Bulbazak]

Bulba: I'm going to do a meta moment here. I usually promise myself not to meta people but this point bugs me a bit as I thought about this game.
When you were in Zor's game I don't recall you ever tunnelling and fighting for pages on end. But when I think of duck, duck goose micro game you fought with me all day 1.
So my question is do you have examples of fighting as town for pages day 1?

I fought Mastin in Fire and Ice and Aunt Jemina in Marvel Avengers Alliance. I know I've done it a lot in the past. I'm trying to tone it down in my present play, but sometimes I can still be goaded into argument mode.

Why are you vying so hard for towncred from the Pine flip?

I'm not. My interest is to judge the sincerity of PN's response. I don't give a crap how much towncred I have or haven't got.

Sure looked like it to me.

But it's cute how you wave your finger at me. You're more or less caught scum and your intereactions now need to be kept under control to give your last buddy the best possible chance. I'm a safe target because it's already obvious that I'm not scum with you and pine.

But if it was obvious that you were not scum with Pine, how does that make you a safe target?

This line of reasoning makes no sense, and this is the third time you've pulled something like this and is the entire basis of your scumread on me.

Was there a reason you quoted this?

wreck is scum and mastin just saying "wreck is def town" without any explanation adds to the reasons why wreck is scum

Explain this, because Mastin is town.

[Bulbazak]

I don't like that last post from Pasch.

[Bulbazak]

You know enough about how I think as scum i.e. NKs to know that Wisdom is the last kill I'd make, since

his making noise would definitely create a workable smokescreen for me

(Plus, I'm a bit of a masochist. You should know that from Maniacal when

I kept Nero alive for so long while fighting him

.). If I really was scum who thought you were a PR, you'd be dead by now. Also, if I was scum in the first place,

picking a fight with you is the last thing I'd want to do

, since it's much easier to just get you to townread me and kill you off.

*cough*

If the emphasis isn't clear enough. Sure you'd keep a player making noise alive to create a workable smokescreen! Sure it'd be masochistic! Doesn't need to be Shiny. In fact...the behavior you describe? Of getting them to townread you and then killing them off? Is pretty much exactly what Shiny ended up having done to them!

I don't recall what Wisdom's read on me was at the end of the day, since it fluctuated so much. You're also the only person who thinks that Wisdom was townreading me, as everyone else is using his reads as a means to call me scum. Also, if you think that Wisdom is equal in stature to you, then you are delusional.

mastin could be scum with wreck. I consider it unlikely, seeing as the likes of bulb and pasch, amongst others, also have compelling reasons to be scum. But mastin is committed to a claim involving being blocked n1, so if she's scum the she's also committed to doing everything possible to keep her buddy alive, becuse mastin is vulnerable to a cc. It would explain why she's giving him townpoints for literally the scummiest thing in this thread.

There's no way that Mastin buses her encryptor, especially if that encryptor is someone she can work with, a la Pine. Mastin is town.

If we're going to PL then do it pre-Lylo, Pasch and Bulba are both better lynches for today

The hammer was not horrible.
The hammer was incredibly town.

What sort of drugs are you on, and can I have some?

[Bulbazak]

Domo is scum. His pushes on me have only come during times where I've been under great suspicion, such as when Wisdom and Mastin both suspected me d1, right after I said I was going to lynch TW for the quick hammer, at the beginning of d2 when Shiny was being used as a reason, and then finally at the end of d2, using a non-flipped TW as reason. In each case, he used extremely stretched reasoning as justification so that he didn't look like he was sheeping anyone else's reasoning (Something about me not OMGUSing him and trying to reason with him, that policy lynching is bad, that I didn't call him out for rolefishing when he clearly wasn't rolefishing, and for sheeping him on TW, when I was the first on the wagon and had said I was going to sit on TW until he was lynched.). I also think it's interesting that even though he kept saying that TW could be scum at the end of d2, he used a TW townflip as reasoning to go after me, and then made it clear that it was a most definite push, not a probable one, meaning that he already knew he was going after me and for what reasoning. I have no doubt that he'll try to use the Mastin kill to his advantage to try to push me. His play so far has been highly manipulative and safe, and he needs to be lynched.

841 Why did my 10 page catch up warrant a vote when your 16 page catch up was pretty similar
...
House 1003 and on actually feel very town, settling on Pasch scum and House town.
...
Really dislike Pasch's refusal of the reachout in 1131

I'm not authorized to read this topic.

Also, why did nobody comment on this? NM posted links to a PT during the day, and nobody batted an eye. I want to know why.

I plan on rereading Pasch's ISO sometime during the holiday weekend. I should be able to read him better now that I don't have to bother with the Mastin/TW nonsense tying everything up, and now that I have a better understanding of Pasch-scum.

Vote DOMO

P-edit: I actually agree. If TW had gotten a guilty on me, he would have claimed it. Doubleslap taking advantage of that is not a good sign.

Also, while I have you NM, explain why you linked to a PT during d2.

He had a 1-shot ability. He might not have targeted anyone. I would have expected him to claim regardless if he had.

[Bulbazak]

K. That was the only sticking point for me. You don't make sense with DOMO or Pine.

[Bulbazak]

TW didn't plan getting modkilled. Using that as justification for a push based on a non-existant result is scummy as crap.

[Bulbazak]

TW showed surprise when he found out he committed a modkillable offense:

I didn't see that in the rules, care to point it out?

Meh, I missed 11.

Sorry, all.

He did not do it on purpose. He also talked extensively afterward about being lynchbait and a prime candidate to be mislynched. Don't you think that he would still be saying this if he had used his 1-shot investigation? Heck no! He'd be screaming from the rooftops that he was conf. town, that X was either innocent or guilty, and that there were scum on his wagon. If he had a guilty on anyone, me especially, he would have made that known loud and clear. The fact that he didn't suggests that he not only didn't use the investigation, but that he forgot he had it.

[Bulbazak]

He prob didn't share his info because he was worried it might get a siteban.

How would revealing an investigation result lead to a site ban?

[Bulbazak]

Also, I'm at L-1 and this wagon is extremely scummy. I better see intent before any hammer, or else I swear I will find a way to vengekill that person.

[Bulbazak]

Also, I'm at L-1 and this wagon is extremely scummy. I better see intent before any hammer, or else I swear I will find a way to vengekill that person.

who is scum on this wagon and why are they scum?

Domo is scum for the timing of his pushes and how they always align with me being under heavy suspicion. His reasoning is also nonsensical and just looks like a quick justification for why he's pushing and to show that his reasoning is different from everyone else's. The next scummy person on the wagon is Double, due to their hiding behind TW. After I flip town they can then claim no responsibility, because they were only following up on TW's reads and non-existent guilty.

It's Lynch -2.
Support Head

I thought I read where it took 4 to lynch. But you're right, given 9 players, it would be 5.

How would revealing an investigation result lead to a site ban?

idk but I find it easier to believe that was his concern rather than forgetting he was a pr.

This doesn't make any sense.

bulba + one of nm and ds obviously

Okay? Why?

also it's really funny that we're at -1 three hours after the day opens.

What does that tell you?

Hey anybody want to switch to KCC? Her recent posts are giving me ~vibes~, and I'm getting a serious scum read from her right now.

Kitty's town.

50-50 are pretty good odds on a lynch, BTW.

So I'm null. Why are you wanting to lynch a null read over a scum read? I can see if it was the end of the day and you were compromising, but it doesn't make sense at the very beginning of the day when you actually have a strong scum read.

I'm not sure how relevant this is, but I'm not sure how often I'll be able to post during the holiday season. Consider me V/LA until Dec. 29.

[Bulbazak]

Also, I'm at L-1 and this wagon is extremely scummy. I better see intent before any hammer, or else I swear I will find a way to vengekill that person.

who is scum on this wagon and why are they scum?

Domo is scum for the timing of his pushes and how they always align with me being under heavy suspicion. His reasoning is also nonsensical and just looks like a quick justification for why he's pushing and to show that his reasoning is different from everyone else's. The next scummy person on the wagon is Double, due to their hiding behind TW. After I flip town they can then claim no responsibility, because they were only following up on TW's reads and non-existent guilty.

so your scum reads are the people who are pushing you? why would both of the scum be on you this early in the day?

You asked me who the possible scum on my wagon were. I told you. Domo is a strong townread. Double I just didn't like his push and found it opportunistic and convenient. Normally I'd think there was probably scum off my wagon, but given that there's essentially blood in the water when it comes to me, they might both be on there assuming that such a lynch wouldn't come back to bite them. Essentially, you need to see who is hiding behind dead townies.

It's Lynch -2.
Support Head

I thought I read where it took 4 to lynch. But you're right, given 9 players, it would be 5.

How would revealing an investigation result lead to a site ban?

idk but I find it easier to believe that was his concern rather than forgetting he was a pr.

This doesn't make any sense.

both of these points read as attempts to generate fake content that still seems like contribution to the game. one of them might well be an honest mistake, but the second is less forgivable. why doesn't it make sense? why are we even bothering to speculate on whether or not TW was concerned with a site ban? does it advance scumhunting? absolutely not!

On the first point, I really did get confused, and that's not something I'd try to fake as scum. There are too many people who would catch crap like that. On the second, the suggestion that TW would think outing an investigation result would get him site banned is absurd, and the only reason Domo would suggest such a thing is so that he could push the "TW got a guilty on Bulba" angle if he so chose. I'm showing that the reasoning is off, which is consistent with all of Domo's pushes.

Hey anybody want to switch to KCC? Her recent posts are giving me ~vibes~, and I'm getting a serious scum read from her right now.

Kitty's town.

yeah? why? calling people town like this is dangerous, and arguably even scummy! I'm not willing to accept that Kitty is town just on your word.

Well, there's the typical reasons of she's actually scumhunting and trying to figure the game out (well, except when it comes to me. That actually bothers me a bit.). However, there are other reasons that I just can't get into. You'll have to trust me on this one. We are never lynching Kitty.

- meta link that I found in the games wreck linked - see post #411,

I've already explained why this meta case is bad, and I even offered for you to use the games in my wiki to double check your theory. You have refused to do so, which means that you were never interested in doing so in the first place.

- defends by taking my attack seriously, not how I'd have replied if town - see posts #516 and #631,

You mean your attack wasn't serious? But if that was the case, then why are you using it as one of your points above?

- complaining about the d1 hammer pre-flip when everyone else was happy the day had ended,

Quick hammers are bad, and I'll lynch them all day, every day.

- starts d2 with a really obvious fake crumb,

What fake crumb? You have refused to say what I supposedly crumbed. Just because you say something repeatedly doesn't make it true.

- responds to my accusation of dropping a fake crumbs by talking to me as though I'm town, rather than accusing me of rolefishing him,

My response to you was null. And why was I supposed to think you were rolefishing when there was no crumb and no reason to even think you were rolefishing? This line of reasoning makes no sense.

- swinging for me, I believe because it's obvious that I'm not scum with bulba + pine, so I'm a safe target in terms of leaving a trail if he flips.

Um...what? Let's say, for argument's sake, that I were to flip scum. How would swinging for you be safe if it's so "obvious" that you're not scum with Pine, especially if I were to flip? There's no way you come up with this as town. This feels like you just made up a new point, because you didn't want to be accused of not adding anything new.

Ok that pretty much sums up why I think bulba is scum. However, I was very wrong yesterday about wreck, and I've put less effort into figuring bulba out. That said, bulba is clearly our best lynch today. mastin demanded my vote today (and tomorrow for that matter) and I owe her at least bulba before stopping to reassess.

He says that he is not trying to figure me out, but that he wants to lynch me anyway, probably because the majority wants to. He then hides behind Mastin.

Domo is scum for the timing of his pushes and how they always align with me being under heavy suspicion. His reasoning is also nonsensical and just looks like a quick justification for why he's pushing and to show that his reasoning is different from everyone else's. The next scummy person on the wagon is Double, due to their hiding behind TW. After I flip town they can then claim no responsibility, because they were only following up on TW's reads and non-existent guilty.

Domo has been making well founded arguments the whole game. You haven't been. You've been mostly flying under the radar and now you come out swinging because there's a popular move against you? No way Domo is scum unless this is some kind of mutual bus.

What are you smoking?! Domo has not been making well founded arguments at all! I just got done showing everything wrong with his arguments! I have shown that his pushes on me only come when I'm under intense pressure. I've shown that his stance is opportunistic and that he's hiding behind the reads of dead town. And how have I been flying under the radar? I have been heavily scrutinized since day freaking 1! I've been extremely vocal about my reads. Sure, I was not moving my vote from TW d2, but that was because I was determined to lynch him for that quick hammer. I absolutely hate this post. There's no way town Pasch even thinks this, because I know you're much better than this. The only reason you'd say this would be to buddy Domo.

Come to think of it, I didn't like you saying that Mastin was scumread the entire game, as he was pretty obvious town d2, as I pointed out.

Otherwise, some of these points are good. I didn't like the fake crumb bit either. But being mad at a hammer without a claim seems pretty normal to me. A lot of people, usually town, get pissed off at that. And it seems odd that most of the rest of this case is based on his reaction to you specifically. I don't see why talking to you as if you're town while criticizing you makes a difference (some people just talk as if everyone is town), or why accusing you is scummy. I think you're town, but it has nothing to do with Pine. I think a much better reason to suspect Bulba is the way he pretty much coasted through day 2. You want active lurking, there's some active lurking. Bulba didn't stick his neck out on anything throughout the day and cast pretty safe votes.

By default, people have about a 25% chance of being scum. Today, we're at 22%. 50-50 is

not

a null read. On the contrary, 50-50 is the ideal baseline for a lynch. If a town can manage to do 50-50 lynches every day, they win.

If you flip a coin 100 times, the odds of a single flip being heads or tails doesn't change. Now you can do certain things to the coin to effect the odds, but saying that it being flipped a certain number of times changes the odds is ridiculous. Same here. You say the odds of me flipping scum is 50/50. That means I'm at the same state as I was at the beginning of the game, with my individual odds being 50/50. Depending on the information you have, the odds change, but you saying that I have a 50/50 chance to flip scum means that to you those odds haven't changed, ergo, I'm a null read. So again, why are you trying to lynch a null read instead of one you think is scum? And I don't accept the reasoning that the game has gone on too long. That is crap reasoning.

-Do you see the common theme there? -All day, TW was saying, "Bulba is scum, who is his scum buddy?"

Is it definitely a result? -No, clearly. And if that's the only reason someone has for voting Bulba, that's a terrible reason. But there's nothing in TW's posts that rules it out (although, the fact that he didn't just come out with it with only 1-shot makes it less likely), and several things that do hint in that direction. Anyway, together with all the reasons Bulba was a good lynch Yesterday, he is just a slightly better lynch Today.

If TW had a guilty on me, he would have stayed on me until the end of time. When you are an investigative with a guilty, you don't move off your guilty.

@NM: So you just showed Pine WKing me, which suggests that I'm town. I don't get your vote at all.

I'm Duckworth, VT.

[Bulbazak]

You were pretending to crumb a mastin clear so you could later claim cop. And if you don't claim anything then it's just an innocent comment saying you think mastin is town.

I reevaluated my Mastin read during the night based on the Pine flip and determined there was no way Mastin-scum would bus a player like Pine, especially when Pine was the encryptor. Ergo, Mastin was town, and I announced that at the start of the day. But you want to talk about town mindsets? A town mindset would have been to ask me about why I was suddenly reading Mastin as town, not to say I was faking a crumb. A town mindset is inquisitive, not accusational.

Quick hammers are bad, and I'll lynch them all day, every day.

This is your fake town mindset, I believe. You were alone in being annoyed with the hammer. That suggests to me that your reaction is forced, as opposed natural. I didn't give a fuck if a PR was killed, I was glad the day was finally over. That's a natural town mindset.

Do you want to know how I know this is fake? Because you've seen my promise to quick lynch anybody who quickhammered in NY165. I was town and you were scum, so for you to say that my reaction was not natural is huge lie.

I've already explained why this meta case is bad, and I even offered for you to use the games in my wiki to double check your theory. You have refused to do so, which means that you were never interested in doing so in the first place.

My meta case is certainly tenuous alone. Why didn't you question my motive at the time?

Because you were making a theory based off of two games, hence why I said why you were wrong and invited you to do more research to get a better read. Your subsequent attack was what I had the problem with, not the initial meta case.

Um...what? Let's say, for argument's sake, that I were to flip scum. How would swinging for you be safe if it's so "obvious" that you're not scum with Pine, especially if I were to flip? There's no way you come up with this as town. This feels like you just made up a new point, because you didn't want to be accused of not adding anything new.

More playing dumb.

My point is that you are trying to minimise interaction tells after your eventual townflip. I'm not getting lynched, I'm a future NK. You're swinging for me because whoever you try to get mislynched to save your own ass will end up being cleared as a result. Well I'm already virtually cleared if you flip scum. That's what I mean by a safe push.

But that was not what you were saying at all. You were saying that my attacking you was meant to draw attention to you after I flipped scum, which doesn't make any sense. I just can't see this argument coming from a town PoV.

You were pretending to crumb a mastin clear so you could later claim cop. And if you don't claim anything then it's just an innocent comment saying you think mastin is town.

Also, the fact that the rolefishing concept totally went over your head betrays your true mindset. If you're town, you *should* consider my comment to be potentially that of scum trying to figure out if you dropped a crumb or not. That's what I'd think if someone accused me of dropping a fake crumb when I didn't. The fact you said you didn't shows you're not thinking like town. You're thinking like scum, trying to play down what I found, rather than town trying to figure out the motive behind my comment.

It's not a crumb. I reevaluated Mastin after the Pine flip.

This.

Why does town post this? Why does town clarify if the comment was a crumb or not? Why doesn't town vote for me?

Why wouldn't town clarify if a comment was a crumb or not? If it's not, then you simply say it's not and explain, which allows other players to see your mindset. That's why town wouldn't vote afterward, because it could very likely be a misunderstanding, and saying "Fake crumb!" is not a reason to vote someone. The better question should be why would town vote someone that accused them of faking a crumb?

However, there are other reasons that I just can't get into. You'll have to trust me on this one. We are never lynching Kitty.

-With the following VT claim, I can't imagine what this could mean. -If I have any say in the matter, I'd prefer you

do

get into it.

Kitty I'll say this: I notice a lot more than people think I do, and I don't always say anything about it. This is what was annoying me about Mastin, because she should know my scum play well enough to know better. She should have known that if I was scum and thought she was a PR, she would have been dead n1. In fact, if I'm scum and I think anyone is a PR, then they're a night kill target. I figured you out d1, and it wasn't very hard, and the fact that you are still alive and questioning me should speak volumes to you. So if I were you, I would stop asking me why you're a town read. Understood?

pasch seems to be piggybacking off my townread on him with just a little too much enthusiasm.

You're the only one conversing with me. And you're one of my strongest townreads.

You asked me who the possible scum on my wagon were. I told you. Domo is a strong townread. Double I just didn't like his push and found it opportunistic and convenient. Normally I'd think there was probably scum off my wagon, but given that there's essentially blood in the water when it comes to me, they might both be on there assuming that such a lynch wouldn't come back to bite them. Essentially, you need to see who is hiding behind dead townies.

Domo is a townread now? And now backing off your contention that there's scum pushing you?

I think it's fairly clear that I meant scum read. It's disturbing me that you are honing in on a nitpicky wording mistake and using it as a means to discredit me.

What are you smoking?! Domo has not been making well founded arguments at all! I just got done showing everything wrong with his arguments! I have shown that his pushes on me only come when I'm under intense pressure. I've shown that his stance is opportunistic and that he's hiding behind the reads of dead town. And how have I been flying under the radar? I have been heavily scrutinized since day freaking 1! I've been extremely vocal about my reads. Sure, I was not moving my vote from TW d2, but that was because I was determined to lynch him for that quick hammer. I absolutely hate this post. There's no way town Pasch even thinks this, because I know you're much better than this. The only reason you'd say this would be to buddy Domo.

You think his attack on you isn't well founded. The rest of the game, which you have largely coasted through, has been much better. I actually agree with some of your points about Domo's case, especially the bit about the crumbing. I don't know what's going on there. But to suggest that Domo isn't making genuine arugments is a bold-faced lie. You have not been heavily scrutinized. You've been casually called scum without much examination. TW was heavily scrutinized. Shiny was heavily scrutinized. I was heavily scrutinized for a little while. And then you call me scum suddenly, because I think that someone has a good point about you? Please, spare us the bull.

First, I have not been coasting, and a good read of my ISO should prove that. If you are going to continue to attack me in such a manner, you better back it up, because that is such a weak and easy attack and is very scummy. Second, I have been heavily scrutinized. Heck, all of the focus of d2 was on me and TW, with me taking the lion's share of the attention. Saying that I've been casually called scum is a lie. Finally, I'm disturbed that you are slipping into calling points lies a lot, because the last time I saw you do that in a game, you were scum.

Come to think of it, I didn't like you saying that Mastin was scumread the entire game, as he was pretty obvious town d2, as I pointed out.

I stopped arguing for Mastin being scum after her soft claim at the start of day 2. You would know that if you were paying half as careful attention to day 2 as you claim to have been.

But your point was that Mastin was a contentious read and was scum read throughout the game, which is clearly not true. Here you say it's not true and then accuse me of not paying attention, even though that statement goes against what your original argument was.

I would be open to a Pasch lynch.

[Bulbazak]

Okay, let's try this, mastin: I have some hypothetical questions for you.

A) You are given an ability that forces you to kill exactly 6 players, right now. If you kill all of the scum, you win. If any scum survive, you lose. Who do you target?
B) You are given an ability that forces you to kill 1 player, right now. If you kill a scum, you also die. Who do you target, and why?
C) You are given an ability that forces you to switch two players alignments, right now. If they have the same alignment, you die and lose the game. Who do you target?
D) You are given an ability that let's you turn another player into a cop, who do you target?
E) You can choose to gain one of the following abilities: track, protect, roleblock, 1-shot vig. Which do you select?

This screams inventor.

[Bulbazak]

Especially the last one.

[Bulbazak]

I might join you on that.

@Mod: Can we get a VC?

[Bulbazak]

Also, the kitty inventor post is probably a good reason why she's scum. Why wouldn't that get her killed? If I were scum, I'd be looking for that kind of shit through the night.

Except they don't. I've played enough scum games to realize that scum players aren't always too observant.

2) You're not wrong, but Bulba's presence in the game has largely diminished since the early game and I trust my early reads more than ones I develop later

And I'm sure holidays and me being busy/apathetic d2 had nothing to do with that.

I saw an inevitable unfolding I knew neeeded to happen sooner rather than later for the health of the game but I also knew I didn't want to be a part of, so when House made that post I was relieved I wouldn't have to bother making that leap

Why would you be so concerned about whether or not you were on the wagon?

VOTE: ExactScience

Why?

Farside, can you answer me this, why is science scumreading me?

i scumread everyone, please don't take it personally.

Are you townreading anyone?

This screams inventor.

Since I wasn't actively looking for town PRs, I didn't really notice this or think about it much, but that's true, it does look like a soft claim. And it's a pretty useful role she's claiming there. Weird that she wasn't night killed, isn't it?

I don't really like where you're going with this. It's pretty obvious that a lot of people didn't see what I saw, and Kitty seems to have been marked for a mislynch since d1, so it's not that surprising that she hasn't been NK'd. I'd also think that if she was scum soft claiming on purpose that she would follow along with the claim and leave me to protect her so adamently, keeping her cover intact. Instead, she pushed me hard about my defense of her, causing me to out what I saw, then she denied it. That's not smart play from a scum perspective, and I don't see why she'd do that, unless she was town (Compare this with Domo's attack about my "crumb", and you can see the stark difference in mindsets.).

I'm not scum and I'm not bussing anyone. I'm town and scumhunting Kitty because she's scummy as shit and needs to die.

This feels so fake.

You don't see any reason to vote your #2 scumread? COME ON PEOPLE!! And your only comment about your #2 scumread is to say what makes him look town? This is an obvious lie!

Kitty has no real scumreads. All she is trying to do is lynch me because I suspected her early on and she's just tunneling to kill her biggest detractor. That's not what town players do!

This actually doesn't add up at all.

Otherwise, what do folks think about the PN slot?

Leaning town.

Too many people think you're scum for you to have any serious influence. That being the case, if you're scum, you can safely push your buddy knowing that those scumreading you won't jump on board.

This feels less accusatory and more like coaching.

In fact, I don't think anyone besides Kitty IS scumreading me right now.

*raises hand*

I am? I thought I just said I was reaction baiting.

Let me be a little more clear. I think science is town because I think notmafia is scum, and I do not see science being scum with notmafia. That being the case, I pulled a townread out of my arse to see how people reacted. farside seems sincerely confused by me. notmafia is posting charts and graphs to show why I'm wrong. At the very least, I'm even more convinced now that notmafia and science are not scumbuddies, and I'm even more convinced that farside is town. So while you lot wave your arms suggesting I'm being dumb, I'm making some progress.

I think you made this all up on the spot.

It's mostly because his agenda seemed to differ from mine, regarding the modkill. wreck was my top scumread and I needed his flip to pull my head out of my arse. But I still didn't want him modkilled. notmafia let his guards down there and showed his true motivation.

That's what I think anyway.

Why would you include the bolded? There's no need for that, and it only serves to weaken your stance.

I don't like Pasch's NM vote on #2380. In fact, I'm really not liking the composition of the NM wagon at all.

@Domo: What is it about #2410 that made you read NM as town?

pasch shamelessly buddying me makes me uncomfortable. That said, bulba's "mastin is town" still stikes me as a fake cop crumb and that for me is the single most compelling post I can recall.

So back to the BS that has proven to be wrong, even after expressing discomfort about being buddied. Can we get some more votes here? Domo's thought process is not natural at all.

That said, bulba's "mastin is town" still stikes me as a fake cop crumb and that for me is the single most compelling post I can recall.

I don't think Bulba is scum, considering I'm alive. If you think Bulba is scum, you should probably vote me first, since it's unlikely he's scum while I'm town.

Oh right, the inventor thing. I'm not towning him for that alone. If that was on d1, then maybe. But it was d2, and n2 a claimed PR got killed. Granted, your comment was d1. But bulba didn't highlight it until d2. Yes he might have seen it on d1. But then again the same can be said about anyone. I don't know why you're alive. I'd guess either scum did not see your inventor post, thought it was nothing, or found something that hinted shiny was a PR. You didn't die n2 because mastin did, and that doesn't give bulba town points.

It was not my intention to highlight it. I like to keep scum in the dark about PRs as much as possible.

You expect good reasons from me? And why is that? How many times have we played together pasch?

But haven't you bragged before about how you're a logical player?

If he's town, why doesn't he stop to consider my motive for pointing the finger at his crumb?

Because if it wasn't a crumb, then I wouldn't be considering why you pointed out something that didn't exist, especially if you're calling it fake. Now if you said something along the lines of "Is that a crumb?", it might be different.

If bulba is town, then why the fuckity fuck does he clear up the crumb issue? Why would he not want the scum to be unsure about whether that was a crumb or not?

Because I consider fake claiming to be bad play, and as such, those types of gambits never occur to me.

Can we please get some more Domo votes? His voting where the momentum of the thread is and then using BS logic is not town motivated.

[Bulbazak]

This feels less accusatory and more like coaching.

lol that's possibly the crappest attempt to make me look scummy that I've seen in some time. I'm coaching pasch? He has been at this site longer than I have, he'd be coaching me if anything. Haha!

I think you made this all up on the spot.

Nope. Why the hell would I make all that up, as either alignment?

I like how you don't really address my points and instead deflect them with non-points (Pasch being on the site longer and why would you do that?). Nothing you've said here actually addresses what I've said. It's just meant to make it look more insignificant.

Why would you include the bolded? There's no need for that, and it only serves to weaken your stance.

Because I'm rambling, posting my thoughts as they come. Are you suggesting that weakening my own position is scummy? I can't think why I'd do that as scum. Maybe because of distancing from an eventual town flip. Ah but then I wasn't exactly concerned about wreck flipping town, was I?

Highlighting this is odd, it seems really nitpicky, like idk, maybe you're trying really hard to make me look scummy.

It was something I noticed as I went along and thought it was off. It wasn't meant as a point in a larger case.

So back to the BS that has proven to be wrong

Proven? Show me, I must have had my eyes shut for a minute or two.

I said this about you at the beginning of the day:

Domo is scum. His pushes on me have only come during times where I've been under great suspicion, such as when Wisdom and Mastin both suspected me d1, right after I said I was going to lynch TW for the quick hammer, at the beginning of d2 when Shiny was being used as a reason, and then finally at the end of d2, using a non-flipped TW as reason. In each case, he used extremely stretched reasoning as justification so that he didn't look like he was sheeping anyone else's reasoning (Something about me not OMGUSing him and trying to reason with him, that policy lynching is bad, that I didn't call him out for rolefishing when he clearly wasn't rolefishing, and for sheeping him on TW, when I was the first on the wagon and had said I was going to sit on TW until he was lynched.). I also think it's interesting that even though he kept saying that TW could be scum at the end of d2, he used a TW townflip as reasoning to go after me, and then made it clear that it was a most definite push, not a probable one, meaning that he already knew he was going after me and for what reasoning. I have no doubt that he'll try to use the Mastin kill to his advantage to try to push me. His play so far has been highly manipulative and safe, and he needs to be lynched.

It points out your pattern of behavior in regards to me. I've also responded to and debunked the crumbing accusation multiple times, so much so, that I don't really want to post the various walls on the matter. Anybody who is interested could easily find it in my ISO. If I really have to post all the responses in spoilers, I will, but I'd rather not have to resort to that.

In fact, I don't think anyone besides Kitty IS scumreading me right now.

*raises hand*

Then, how about supporting that with a vote? Wouldn't that be fun?

But I'm starting to get support for a Domo-scum lynch, and I want that so bad...

I didn't ask if it was a crumb. I said it was an obvious fakecrumb. He told me it wasn't a crumb at all.

This is coming from the person who just told us he likes to keep scum in the dark about PRs.

I was talking about PRs that I've seen and figured out. I'm not talking about fake claims.

Ok let me explain this super clearly to you so you can't even pretend to be dumb.

bulba signs off his opening d2 post with a definitive "mastin is town".
I suggest it's a blatant fakecrumb.
Bulba says it's not.
If bulba is town, then why the fuckity fuck does he clear up the crumb issue? Why would he not want the scum to be unsure about whether that was a crumb or not?
Bulba is not thinking like town, as demonstrated by the fact he wasn't concerned about me rolefishing.
If he's town he's stupid town.

Seems like a stretch. And moreso, it seems like a side effect of Bulba's actual scummy behavior, his lurking. His 2434 is mostly snarky comments and one-liners. It doesn't really add anything and he doesn't reach any useful conclusions in it. Not reaching useful conclusions is pretty much Bulba's thing in this game.

I'm really not liking the buddying here, especially the lying and stretching that Pasch is going through to accomplish it. Here he attacks my activity, which is due to RL. It is evident that I've been trying to keep current, hence the catchup posts. His calling them mostly one liners is also a lie, as I asked several questions and lengthily responded to Domo in those posts, while also explaining why Domo is scum. There is also no way he can say that I haven't reached any conclusions where in the last post I reached light townreads on NM and PN, while also emphasizing repeatedly that Domo is scum. I also was trying to figure out NM's read on Science, as I can't quite figure him out either. I'm actually half tempted to switch to Pasch for this.

2) You're not wrong, but Bulba's presence in the game has largely diminished since the early game and I trust my early reads more than ones I develop later

And I'm sure holidays and me being busy/apathetic d2 had nothing to do with that.

Yeah I wasn't actually accusing you of anything alignment wise here, guilty conscience?

You were talking to Farside about why you thought I was scum, and you brought this up. Of course I thought that you were accusing me of being scum because of my waning activity.

I saw an inevitable unfolding I knew neeeded to happen sooner rather than later for the health of the game but I also knew I didn't want to be a part of, so when House made that post I was relieved I wouldn't have to bother making that leap

Why would you be so concerned about whether or not you were on the wagon?

VOTE: ExactScience

Why?

Do you still need these answering, I'm guessing you made these as went along?

I did do these as I went along, but I normally delete points if they've been answered already. They're not as important now, but I would still like some answers if you've got them.

[Bulbazak]

Unvote

Vote Paschendale

I'll give Domo some rope. I'm feeling the need to lynch this now.

[Bulbazak]

[Bulbazak]

I really don't like Pasch's Domo vote. It reads very fake and insincere. I really don't like how there's no progression on it, meaning it's likely not meant to be a jump on a viable mislynch, as I'd think he'd lay a lot more groundwork as scum.

[Bulbazak]

Vote DOMO

I'm not buying the energetic derp act. That flies out the window when he's the one to point out that his actions can only come from town. I also don't buy the gambit as a town action, because he says he's townreading NM for his response in one post, while in a later post saying that NM was a town read

before

the gambit, making the action essentially useless. DOMO had a lot of eyes on him at the end of yesterday, so in order to survive, he'd have to do something incredibly ballsy the next day.

[Bulbazak]

I suspect that you don't want to touch NM because that's too obvious. kitty is obviously tonight's NK, and science didn't send the kill in during the night because of lame profile time stamps telling us when he last logged in (why is that information public?). You're running low on targets, that's what I think.

Do you have anything more than mudslinging, or are you going to try good old fashioned misrepresentation soon?

bulba, assume I'm town. Who's your next target?

I guess you're going with the leading question first.

Yeah ok it's bulba. PN seems interested in the game, keen to interact with people, while bulba comes along, makes a crappy vote for me, disappears. He's just hoping for the best here.

VOTE: bulba

There's the misrep! It's kinda hard to just disappear when your response was only 15 minutes after mine. Sounds like someone desperately doesn't want the attention to be on them.

[Bulbazak]

What's a Super High School Level Lynch?

[Bulbazak]

That makes it sound like you know PN is town.

[Bulbazak]

Sounds like someone desperately doesn't want the attention to be on them.

Haha! So explain why I came stomping in today with a bullshit claim,a nd a self vote? That's the opposite of what you're suggesting here.

I already did. You were hoping people would write that off as being impossible to come from scum, an idea that you immediately started pushing, and would then leave you alone. All your actions today have been meant to deflect attention off of you in the long run.

That makes it sound like you know PN is town.

I'd love to hear a detailed explanation of this thinking.

You told PN that it was too late to start applying gut reads to their thinking. That implies that you think their thought process is natural and not contrived. Otherwise, you would have told them that it's too late in the game for gut or that they were trying to push stale reads or the like.

[Bulbazak]

bulba, let me ask you again, seeing as you dodged the question last time... assume I'm town... who's the scum?

I didn't dodge the question. You just asked a different one. If you were town, I'd probably look at Marquis. I have town reads on Kitty and NM, and I'm starting to like PN even better given that exchange, which moves them out of null/town. Science appears to be town due to activity, which leaves Marquis via PoE.

Son.of.a.bitch.

VOTE: Bulbazak.

Vote Total Wreck

@Farside: Why did you decide to remain in the game?

Also, Mastin is town.

These two posts are 11 minutes apart.

Why the hell would bulba, assuming he's town, think mastin is town after she made that previous post?

It's a fucking fake crumb, it's so obvious it hurts. You're all stupid and I'm really clever.

Those 2 posts are not connected. That was my first post of the day, and I would have said that regardless. And I reevaluated Mastin based on the Pine flip. I kinda thought that was obvious.

[Bulbazak]

Anyway, you were scumreading mastin d1, then not on d2.

Yes. Pine flipped scum at the end of d1 and eliminated any possibility of Mastin being scum. Hence her being a townread.

Notice how he wants an explanation from pine for his townreads, yet thinks the lynch is bad. Notice how he's concerned about another week of d1, and then next post is complaining about the hammer.

Wanting an explanation for some reads does not equal having a scum read. And given what my reads were at the time, of course I thought the Pine lynch was bad. And there's also a difference between thinking the day's been going too long and not liking a quick hammer. I'm very adamant about intent being given as well as time to claim/post final reads. I've made it a point to PL any quick hammers.

Also, I'm removing KCC from my townreads. Joy.

Why? This seems odd, since you are voting me. It's like you're trying to set up tomorrow's lynch.

P-edit: So you think that Kitty vs. Pasch was some weird sort of distancing? I don't buy that.

[Bulbazak]

@PN: Why are you so willing to write off DOMO because of activity? I mean I get wanting to keep the thread active, but if he's scum, that's just allowing him to muck up the thread for days and create a smokescreen. I've seen town fall into an active posting trap before (Varsoon in See Nine Plus Plus), and all that happens is scum talks town under the table and everyone gives them a free pass, normally to a scum win. If DOMO is scum, you're essentially trading a town win upon his death for endless pages of deception until he wins. I don't see how that's a good trade off.

[Bulbazak]

I really am gonna sleep now but
It's frustrating cos ur points about DOMO are valid and
DOMO just dismisses it as crappy and says you disappear or some other excuse to repel the suspicion right back at you

And yet, he isn't getting lynched.

bulba's fake crumb. I just can't see that being town. It's really that simple for me.

Ffs, that wasn't a fake crumb! I don't fake crumb. Heck, I don't even real crumb. The closest I get is soft claiming as town. I tend to play it safe as scum and have only 2 instances of claiming something other than VT, both of which had extenuating circumstances that made me certain that those claims were safe. I simply reevaluated my read and announced my conclusion at the beginning of the next day, which is not unusual for me.

kitty, as for bulba's comment about wanting to policy lynch wreck for the hammer... I felt it was an unnatural position under the circumstances. Even bulba himself says in the post before that we're in for another week due to another replacement. Why didn't the hammer please him? I suspect that bulba reacted like that because he is

trying

to be town, rather than just being town. Town should be pissed off about the lack of claim request, and the lack of final reads etc. But actually in this game town was happy the day was finally over, and a dead PR would be a price worth paying for progress. That was how I felt, that's the polar opposite of bulba's position.

For the last time, being frustrated at the length of the day does not mean that I wouldn't have found the quickhammer scummy and anti-town. Those are 2 completely different issues, and unlike PN, I'm not going to ignore a scummy action just because it makes the game move quicker.

DOMO - this is dumb town domo

EXAKT Science - timestamp tell of lameness

I wondered how long it would take scum to try to poke holes in this.

I picked up on the "unblocked" comment at the time, however it comes after mastin tells us she was blocked, so it's reasonable for town VT kitty to assume she wasn't targetted by a scum RB'er. The original post of kitty's that bulba picked up on might have been a fake crumb of the type I'm accusing bulba of, something she can later point to in support of her fakeclaim. But it seems very unlikely that scum would plan to fakecrumb inventor, simply because there would be noone confirming her night actions.

idk, I don't feel like that's nearly as compelling as bulba's "crumb".

If Kitty was scum fake crumbing inventor, she wouldn't have destroyed her crumb just to ask what I was talking about. Far from it, she probably would have wanted me to keep it to myself to increase the crumb's legitimacy. If she was scum who didn't crumb, it still makes no sense to tell me that I'm wrong. That's throwing away a potential fake claim and is not good play. Kitty's actions only make sense coming from town. Her Pasch push doesn't make sense coming from scum, and the only reason why this is still being discussed is because scum is trying to keep her open as a later mislynch.

I also want to know why Marquis is being unilaterally cleared. If there's a reason, that's great, but everyone just seems to be accepting Marquis-town based on nothing, and that's making me uncomfortable.

[Bulbazak]

I'm pretty sure that lynching bulba, doubleslap and aronis/pn is a town victory. Basically kitty and pn need to decide if I should be lynched, and if so, who I should be traded for.

This seems highly manipulative.

DOMO's # 2679 is exactly what I said he'd be trying to do yesterday: Use dead players to push mislynches. He takes multiple posts out of context to do this. The Pine post, for example, was about players spamming the thread and radically increasing the page count. In fact, that was one of the reasons Pine was lynched: For complaining about such things and doing zero scumhunting. A quick look through Pine's ISO will find him solely complaining about how fast the game was moving, while offering little else. It's amazing that a player who is trying to draw a connection between someone not liking a long day and not liking a quickhammer is trying to push someone not liking large page counts as trying to protect a buddy. That seems like a complete opposite and convenient stance. He also ignores the fact that Wisdom later stated that he was never scumreading me, and was instead reaction testing me. DOMO ignores all that, though, and makes Shiny his poster boy for his push, stating that was obviously why Shiny was NK'd, even though simple pattern analysis of the night kills would point toward scum eliminating strong universally townread players. And then he points out that Pine and Pasch were obviously protecting me, even though PN just pointed out a game where I realized when I was down and would have told my scum partners to keep pushing (DOMO admits to reading this game, btw.). So, given that this game had day talk at the time, and I was under a similar amount of pressure, wouldn't it be plausible that as scum I'd tell my partners to not protect me? There was no need to create associatives like that, but DOMO is ignoring all that, and using a dead player, whose reads were constantly in flux, to push his pet mislynch.

[Bulbazak]

bulba you're completely ignoring the fact that I'm happy to be lynched. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm not scum. What have I been doing today? Trying to save myself? Or trying to narrow down the scum so my mislynch can be afforded?

I'm not falling for that reverse psychology BS. Everybody will look at that and go "Well, DOMO is willing to die and is posting a lot, let's not lynch him." Then you make it to endgame and win. No thank you.

Why are you so focussed on me at this point of the game bulba? Why don't you do what I'm doing... accept your own lynch, and find two others to take down with you. I'm one... who's the other?

Because I'm absolutely sure it's you. Marquis is an outlier, but I'm thinking that is unlikely. Everyone else reads town. I'm not going to be shaken off because you don't think you should be tunneled, especially when that is what you're doing to me.

I'm leaning more in bulba's direction than slap's.

Yeah, looking over everything, bulba was "scumreading" pasch for large parts of day 1, but his vote always kept ending up elsewhere.

TW was a stronger scumread. If it had gotten near deadline or TW didn't look as viable, I would have moved to Pasch.

He didn't ever lay down a vote on pasch until all the way up at 1256, at the

very height

of that initial pasch wagon where it looked liked he'd be the lynch for sure, and even that:

The one thing that is certain Mastin is that you are master of your own meta. Saying that you would

never

use a strategy again just opens you up to use it when it's most convenient, and while the circumstances aren't exactly the same, I can see how it could be most convenient now. You haven't been arguing concerning anything real gameplay-wise. Concerning scumhunting, you've been pretty silent. However, you've been very loud about how you'd

never

do X as scum, even though everyone who is familiar with you knows that you can manipulate your meta at will as scum. This has all been a smokescreen, maybe that by arguing about it, you'll have room enough in the fog to still pull it off, because you might be able to plant enough doubt.

Unvote

Vote Paschendale

I just realized that you already set up the dominos when we weren't paying attention. The arguments haven't been about

if

Pasch is scum, but

who

he's scum with. You handed us a sure scum lynch in the hopes that we'd hang ourselves. If we don't lynch Pasch, then not only will we likely shoot ourselves in the foot, but then you'll focus on who kept the Pasch lynch from going through. If we do lynch Pasch, you'll then draw paranoia on who wasn't on the wagon, while pursuing those lynches that you have both promised you'd pursue. The only thing I don't get is how you both orchestrated your sudden shifts toward Pasch-scum, since neither of you were scumreading him beforehand.

...and even that was just bulba tying mastin to pasch for a follow-up mislynch.

The Pasch read was very confusing near the end of d1. Mastin had tied it up into a knot with lined up lynches. I felt sure that she was giving us conf. scum to ensure a series of game winning mislynches, something which I wouldn't put past her scum game, and something which you're accusing me of here. I decided to push her hand, and she backed off immediately. Pasch remained tied up in that confusing knot, and I wanted to take some time to untangle that, because I wasn't sure what was a genuine read and what was backwash from Mastin. I managed to do so by d3, with the help of additional information from another game, and I moved Pasch back to my scum list.

@PN: Don't forget more recent games. In Hilariously Unbalanced Mafia I nailed Nazerene and Metal Sonic, and I was close to figuring out Ika, but I backed off of all of them. In Tit for Tat, I nailed Luca-scum and compromised on Pasch-scum (btw, this is what made it especially clear that I was dealing with Pasch-scum in this game. His methods were the exact same.). Unfortunately, I ended up tunneled on Netherspite based on what I thought were compelling associatives. The last scum ended up being heavily townread by all the experienced players, myself included, and was only caught by the backup role cop.

[Bulbazak]

Yeah, I didn't think we were going to win this.

Now tell me it wasn't a fucking fake crumb.

It wasn't a fake crumb. I realized that there was no way to push Mastin as scum after the Pine flip, as that absolutely cleared her, and that I'd realize that as town. I would have said that regardless of my alignment. And I don't crumb.

Oh! How could I forget?

And you're the fucking bastard that blocked me last night.

This has to be my favorite, too.

So I misinterpreted my "no result" to mean I was BLOCKED, but I was correct:
Bulbazak was the mafia role who caused me to not see Shiny Hydreigon's killer.

WORSHIP ME!

Were you right? Yes. Was it a natural progression? No. Your read on me was pure stubborness and tunnel vision since everyone started calling you out on it d1. You held onto it and justified it so much that there was no way you were ever going to leap off of me or reevaluate me, regardless of my alignment. Your accusation that I blocked you is evidence of that, as you are smart enough to know that if I thought you were a PR, I would have killed you. I fear you as scum, Mastin. My strategy tends to be to buddy up to you so you'll leave me alone. The only reason I didn't do that in this game is because your early play d1 was weak. Everybody in the scum PT saw it, and we took advantage of it. It backfired, but don't even think you were on top of your game here, because we all recognized you were not.

Also, the only reason Shiny was killed d1 was because Pine really wanted it. I wanted to keep Wisdom alive for the noise alone and instead wanted to kill Kitty. Mastin was an automatic kill after she revealed she was a PR in her attack on me. Farside was essentially a low information kill and a way to make sure she wasn't around for late game.

[Bulbazak]

Yeah... I didn't think a Shiny kill would hurt too much, as we'd have the paranoia from all his random scum reads, and I really didn't want to argue too much. D1 kinda killed my enjoyment, and I was just trudging through. I find it ironic that the game I was looking forward to ending my hiatus with ended up being the one I dreaded, while the one I randomly joined for lols, and the actual first game back, ended up being the one I enjoyed posting in. I don't know whether it was the soulcrushing first day, the modding, or that I'm wondering whether I still have it as scum, but this game was agonizing to play.

[Bulbazak]

...And by the way. The main reason that I had a scumread on you was because you had a scumread on me. Now, that wasn't a problem originally...but I was dropping 'crumbs basically every-other post. Iso me for "view", "see", references to being old, "watch", and so on (no, seriously, think of any possible vision, eye, sight, or elderly thing; I used most); I was 'crumbing left-and-right, and you had JUST (no, literally, JUST) posted in the dead QT of my game that you had picked up on EddieFenix's breadcrumbs, so I absolutely refused to believe that a town-you couldn't have seen them, thus, that you were scum. (In short, your posting how perceptive you were in Hilariously-Unbalanced gave away how your seeming lack-of-perception this game was an alignment-tell.) And I was right, no?

You're forgetting that I know Eddie personally and know how he thinks. Your watcher crumbs flew over my head, as if I'd have seen them, I'd have made sure never to push you. Eddie started pushing Sonic about his cop claim and role PM in that game, which screamed cop. I was surprised no one else saw it, because that was indicative of someone who was knowledgeable about what a cop role PM should say. As far as all the other roles in that game, I was way off. I had no clue that Voided was also a cop, and I townread him on his own merits. I townread ProHawk and misread Nazerene based on what I thought was a mason crumb, but ended up being insignificant. In fact, I was lamenting about how I always tend to leap to certain conclusions and tend to be wrong. My Kitty-inventor read in this game was proof of that. Heck, I actually considered you being masons with TW for awhile, but I discarded that when I looked back through TW's ISO and saw that he voted for you. If you would have said things like "You're never going to lynch me.", I might have caught on, but I was not looking for you slipping the word "watch" in occasionally, and so I missed it.

Just so you know, I don't actively look for PR tells. I'm actually more likely to catch soft claiming than crumbs.

[Bulbazak]

I suspect that was more a tell that you're unaware of. t wasn't so much activity, more accurately, the enthusiasm, or lack of it.

I used to enjoy playing as scum. I don't know what happened. Also, Playing Card Mafia is a bad scum game to meta me by. I walked away after 1 post to watch a movie, came back and found a wagon on me. I ended up fighting for my life the entire game. Maybe it's an example of my tenacity, but it's not an example of a good scum game on my part.

[Bulbazak]

Best use of a vig was in Ikaruga Mafia.