Mini 1628: Rick Santorum Saves Xmas - Gaybepocalypse

[Shinobi]

Well I'm in the top half, so that's something.

[Shinobi]

and that was the moment when I realised I should read the rules

Me.. TOO!

I can't seem to understand the rules. They seem way over my head, like how my heart rules over my head.

You are adorable.

Also, I want to reserve gift #3.

[Shinobi]

Looks like I'm getting box 3.

Happy day.

[Shinobi]

I steal from CP1116.

Really?

[Shinobi]

steal from mathdino

Yes.

[Shinobi]

That was the greatest goddamn death scene ever.

Yeah it was.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Bert

Are we still rvsing? Well I am.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Bert

Are we still rvsing? Well I am.

Guys, wisdom is obv town. Based off of his interaction with me re: the flip alignment. There is no way that wasn't genuine.

In other news,

serious VOTE: Shinobi

There is a whole FUCK ton of shit that has happened. Those who attempt to keep the game in a random state after there is plenty of information to begin actually playing a serious game are either lazy people playing town like shit or savvy scum trying to deny town information as long as possible.

Which one are you?

I don't care about this guy voting me.

I wanted to try to say some things about him voting me, but I just can't find anything worth saying to him.

[Shinobi]

Also I'll get to this game tonight.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Bert

Are we still rvsing? Well I am.

Guys, wisdom is obv town. Based off of his interaction with me re: the flip alignment. There is no way that wasn't genuine.

In other news,

serious VOTE: Shinobi

There is a whole FUCK ton of shit that has happened. Those who attempt to keep the game in a random state after there is plenty of information to begin actually playing a serious game are either lazy people playing town like shit or savvy scum trying to deny town information as long as possible.

Which one are you?

I don't care about this guy voting me.

I wanted to try to say some things about him voting me, but I just can't find anything worth saying to him.

I asked you a fucking direct question fucktwat.

Okay.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Bert

Are we still rvsing? Well I am.

Guys, wisdom is obv town. Based off of his interaction with me re: the flip alignment. There is no way that wasn't genuine.

In other news,

serious VOTE: Shinobi

There is a whole FUCK ton of shit that has happened. Those who attempt to keep the game in a random state after there is plenty of information to begin actually playing a serious game are either lazy people playing town like shit or savvy scum trying to deny town information as long as possible.

Which one are you?

I don't care about this guy voting me.

I wanted to try to say some things about him voting me, but I just can't find anything worth saying to him.

I asked you a fucking direct question fucktwat.

Okay.

Please kill this with fire.

Uhm?

[Shinobi]

Also Mathdino is town.

[Shinobi]

Answer the question. You made a play that only makes sense from the perspective of shitty town or scum. Which one are you?

Neither answer gives you insight that helps you determine my alignment.

The fact that you're pushing for a lynch/shot on me based on the fact that I won't answer it is scummy.

Question circumvented. Suck it, nerd.

[Shinobi]

Answer the question. You made a play that only makes sense from the perspective of shitty town or scum. Which one are you?

Neither answer gives you insight that helps you determine my alignment.

The fact that you're pushing for a lynch/shot on me based on the fact that I won't answer it is scummy.

Question circumvented. Suck it, nerd.

Ok, so going with scum then.

Please kill this slot.

There's no way for you to draw an accurate conclusion from that question.

There's no way for you to draw an accurate conclusion from me ignoring that question.

Anybody with eyeballs can see that your push is bad. For you to think I'm mafia based on this logic, you have to actually

be

mafia.

Are you mafia, TSQ?

[Shinobi]

For you to think I'm mafia based on this logic, you have to actually be mafia.

Please explain this. My nerd brain is too busy "sucking it" to understand what you mean by this.

Haha, I like you. We can be friends.

At any rate, my issue with your logic is that you called me mafia based off of the fact that I wanted to rvs a second time. Then you asked me a question based on me being either bad town or scum, and demanded for my answer.

I don't see how me answering that question with either option gives you insight into my alignment, in yet you're jumping down my throat based on the fact that I won't answer it.

[Shinobi]

The bottom line is that I don't feel like you're particularly interested in anything beyond me answering that question, despite the fact that that my answer can't be useful in any way.

[Shinobi]

I'm aware, but that doesn't really make the question that much more meaningful or inquisitive when it comes down to it.

I don't understand how someone brushing off attacks makes them scum, either. Nobody really likes to be called scum, but saying that I'm only interested in brushing the attack off at this point is a bit off the mark, wouldn't you think? Even then, I fail to see how only being defensive is a scumtell.

[Shinobi]

Sure seems like it to me.

[Shinobi]

Meh, alright. I'll be back in a bit with opinions on stuff.

[Shinobi]

Oh, here's an easy vote:
VOTE: FuDuzn

Tries to get TSQ shot despite agreeing with his logic in terms of attacking me. Ridic.

Other things I don't really like: Bert's read on TSQ. In addition to being combined with the obvious "TSQ is aggressive," it pushes TSQ into being more aggressive while being an ultimately "safe" read, IE TSQ should keep attacking this guy. It's based on the obvious so nobody can call him out on it. It's kind of centered on the fact that people have to know I'm town, but meh.

I agree with Wisdom in saying that the people switching from box 10 are suspicious, but that's obvious so who cares.

I do still like mathdino for town, though. I feel like a lot of his posts are geared towards engaging people and cutting to the heart of the topic du joir: specifically, posts #189, #227, and #307 are the best examples of this mindset. I also like his attempts to push plans, IE his #179 plan and his idea to try to work the killbox into scum's hands, and his insistence in pushing it makes me think he's town. I haven't actually put much thought into the idea as of yet, but I like the way he's interacting with the game. Easy townread, imo.

(Just realized that we can hold people accountable for putting the killbox into other players' hands. If scum has daytalk this plan can backfire, though. We don't know how they can interact with the boxes.)

I want to say TSO is town, but it's mostly just because he called me town and I'm a sucker for people calling me town. I'd like some reasons based on the posts I made when he came up with that read since he came up with that contrary to what other people have thought already. It's a really strange time to call me town since I hadn't really done much at that point. I'd say that's a point in his favor, but again, I'm biased and I need reasons.

Just a couple of thoughts.

[Shinobi]

I don't see where you stated you had a townread on TSQ.

[Shinobi]

Meh, I rethought it.
UNVOTE:
I don't know how I feel about FuD right now.

[Shinobi]

I can kind of see the read evolving through those posts.

I can also see him being opportunistic in prodding TSQ along.

I want to see him do more things.

[Shinobi]

And I never said I had a town read on TSQ, just that I agreed with his positioning in regards to you.

So you still have both of us lined up as lynches/kills despite us fighting?

I think if someone were trying to pick someone in this game to "prod along" it probably wouldn't be me.

So you don't see the problem in people pushing you to keep attacking me?

[Shinobi]

[Shinobi]

VOTE: bert

Second the notion. Shot was both senseless and bad.

[Shinobi]

And that was after he townread tsq too.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Wisdom

That readslist is bad and almost completely unexplained.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: flames
join

Rofl.

No.

[Shinobi]

How does tso autocorrect to tsq.

sounds like a shit explanation.

Saved words, possibly.

You ever use an iphone? I wouldn't believe it either until I used it.

[Shinobi]

Explain Aronis, Shinobi, cp1116?

Aronis - see 395
Shinobi - as was mentioned, his sheeping the Bert vote is bad, especially his reasoning that is irrelevant
cp is just gut

Uhm, I was sheeping you.

[Shinobi]

Also why did TSO get lynched?

I'm not entirely sure why that happened.

[Shinobi]

lol

Amazing response.

[Shinobi]

Are we not doing the plan anymore?

[Shinobi]

3

[Shinobi]

Wow, lol.

[Shinobi]

The fuck are people voting me for?

[Shinobi]

I was 'this' close to stealing that box as well. Self hi5 for making the correct choice.

Also, shinobis first post toDay ping my scumdar coupled with 363 makes meVOTE: shinobi.

Decided on stealing from Marquis because I think I was scum reading him as well, I have to read back over the last day again(I was a bit MIA).

Pre edit: Wisdom brings up a good point, why word that as one or the other math?

This is easily the worst vote on my wagon. I can give Math some room to think because I still kinda think he's town due to the reasoning I gave beforehand, but this shit will not fly.

VOTE: FuDuzn

I should've pushed you harder yesterday.

[Shinobi]

I totally commented on TSO.

I called him town way before we lynched him and I still don't know why he died.

[Shinobi]

I don't see how me voting with or sheeping Wisdom has anything to do with anything atm.

Pedit: Oh, marquis is just going to jump on wagons for no reason again?

lolk

[Shinobi]

VOTE: shinobi
can we just lynch scum already
thanksbye

This is scum. 100%.

Fuduzn/Marquis and we're looking for the third.

I agree.

[Shinobi]

I don't like the first post of the Day being something that offers no content but does comment on the death. Flavor notwithstanding. On its own it probably isn't much but after re reading 363 I don't like him.

Pre edit: Why so defensive wisdom? I was saying that it was the timing of shinobis sheeping of you that was scummy......

Pre edit 2: Pre edits revenge: Shinobi, so going after an easy target doesn't deserve a little kick of the tires at the very least?

Pre edit 3: Pre edit lives: Yes, clear clear connection between us. Just as we discussed in the PT.

In every game ever I will state that potential trolling and potential lurking in a game is not alignment indicative........no matter what my alignment is. And please do not insult my scum game, I will gladly through my buddy under the bus on Day one.

Nobody cares what you think, scum.

[Shinobi]

I don't see how you can think that post makes me scum.

Pedit: Nor the one above it.

[Shinobi]

Aronis, who is scum?

Flames, maybe Marquis.

Vote Fud.

What the fuck. Those two reads are diametrically opposed and there's no way Flames is scum here. Seriously. None.

[Shinobi]

You have scumreads on both sides of the wagon. Reanalyze based on what they're saying and come back because those reads make absolutely no sense as a team.

And I don't even make associative reads.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi how sure are you Aronis is town?

I'm not. I've never given a read on him all game, but I'm fairly certain the stance he takes here is going to be huge in reading him properly.

But first he needs to say stuff that makes sense.

[Shinobi]

He very well could be, but it depends on how this plays out.

[Shinobi]

My biggest issue here is that he seems to have no idea what the fuck is going on, even though this push is obviously bullshit.

This can be remedied.

[Shinobi]

Aronis, who is scum?

Flames, maybe Marquis.

Vote Fud.

What the fuck. Those two reads are diametrically opposed and there's no way Flames is scum here. Seriously. None.

I'll worry about what scumteam makes sense after a scum has flipped, k?

I'd comment more, but Wisdom is wrecking shop atm.

Now comment on Fud because the lynch is not going anywhere else besides me or Fud today.

[Shinobi]

My head might actually explode if that happens.

Seriously.
Aronis.

[Shinobi]

Marquis isn't getting lynched today.

If you suspect him, then vote against him and vote Fud.

[Shinobi]

Aronis, you're ignoring the case against Fud and talking about flips and irrelevant garbage.

[Shinobi]

Stay the course.

Lynch Fud.

[Shinobi]

nono Aronis first

The case on Fud is logically sound and the lynch itself makes sense.

Aronis getting pissed off and voting what we perceive to be mafia doesn't make him mafia.

Lynch Fud.

Pedit: I don't see how that's a scumslip.

[Shinobi]

So he thinks Fud is town and knows that he's town?

Pedit: What Flames said. That question is much better since there's no way I lynch someone over a scumslip. I put no value in scumslips anyway.

[Shinobi]

Why is FuD town aronis

Unlike some morons who just guess, I don't just randomly accuse a bunch of people and pary they flip scum while leading town to their doom. But lets lynch another townie, be my giest.

Did you read the case against him or no?

I don't think you did.

[Shinobi]

Don't start egofighting. There's no need.

[Shinobi]

Hey.

No.

This fight is completely meaningless and you can settle it outside of the game. Focus on important matters, because calling each other stupid is going to resolve nothing.

[Shinobi]

Stop fighting because your fight isn't important.

Pedit: Holy shit, now we definitely kill Fud.

[Shinobi]

UNVOTE:

I forgot that my gift gave me a thing. I'm going to use it brb.

[Shinobi]

What result?

[Shinobi]

Yeah, but it doesn't give me a result.

You'll find out what it does at the end of the day phase.

[Shinobi]

No, it's a secret.

It is vital that it remains secret until tomorrow.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: FuDuzn

Putting him back at L-1. #yolo

[Shinobi]

Investigation sent, reading thread today

I don't feel like this is happening.

[Shinobi]

ITS HAPPENING I GOT THIS

So.

[Shinobi]

Someone should just hammer Fud.

Math can play catch up during White Elephant or something.

[Shinobi]

FuD's not trolling.

I'm not sure whether I should scumread CP's hammer. I'm more interested in Shinobi/Aronis/Flames.

Also fuck half of you are gonna be scum after the white elephant death.

Whoever doesn't follow the plan tomorrow dies.

Only if you think those three have reasoning only scum can come up with.

I'm totally down for backing the plan though.

I thought I had a really good lynch here. Sorry Fud.

[Shinobi]

Flames, pick my box.

[Shinobi]

Or whoever's job it is to do that. Can't remember and can't check.

[Shinobi]

2

[Shinobi]

Oh shit I forgot.

Uhh.

Pick 3.

[Shinobi]

Why did the order change?

[Shinobi]

Why did the order change?

Would really like an answer to this.

Doubt that I'm going to get one though.

[Shinobi]

I think Marquis did it, Shinobi.

You're welcome Wisdom.

Uhm. Why?

[Shinobi]

Wisdom was green-checked.

Though I'd really like it if the game woke up at this point.

[Shinobi]

Cool, so we've gotten that out of the way.

New suspects. Go.

[Shinobi]

Awesome cases.

[Shinobi]

Btw, I might as well claim what I got yesterday.

It was just a fruit basket. I sent it to Flames hoping to draw the nightkill away from Math since he had cop powers.

Meh. Kind of a lame idea but it was worth a shot I guess.

[Shinobi]

Ballsy.

[Shinobi]

I'm not sure that's a totally safe vote though.

[Shinobi]

I think I'm most okay with a marquis lynch.

[Shinobi]

I'm deliberately putting off doing stuff because my focus is elsewhere.

I had a pair of ideas that I wanted to bounce around, but not until I flesh them out first.

[Shinobi]

Three days.

Holy shit.

Okay.

[Shinobi]

Give me a minute and I'll say a thing.

[Shinobi]

Awesome, okay. Thanks.

Back to what I was saying, I wanted to point out that I think cp was the one messing with people's gifts today. He's the only one to ever receive a music-oriented gift (the headphones) and is the only one who matches the flavor given to us.

I don't know why he wouldn't claim it though. That's kinda bugging me. I can't think of a reason why he would do that regardless of alignment, so I want an answer.

[Shinobi]

Also I just realized what Aronis was saying about the order: Marquis was the one in line to take the killbox and the order changed to put Mathdino in his place, killing him.

Is there an item he received that can fit that bill?

[Shinobi]

The constitution does.

[Shinobi]

The only other item I see that can fit the bill is the clicky pencil that Flames got.

That's the only other possibility I see.

[Shinobi]

Explain your reasoning

All of the items give away their nature due to their flavor: the laptop gave us a cop check, the coupon to Edible Arrangements gave me a fruitbasket, the gun gave us a vigi bullet, etc.

The constitution and the clicky pencil are the only two items that make sense in regards to rewriting the order of people receiving presents. I don't see anything else fitting the bill.

[Shinobi]

Also why are we so sure it's lylo? We really going to have a three person scumteam and a 3p in the same 13 player game?

[Shinobi]

Also I'm kind of assuming the Romney/Ryan 2012 pencil and pen are actually the same thing and that's just a typo of some sort.

[Shinobi]

You're going to say that regardless of alignment so that doesn't help me.

[Shinobi]

So here's what I'm thinking:

A) Flames rewrote the gift order in order to save Marquis. Possible. This requires them to be a scumteam, in which case we lynch Marquis first because that lynch makes sense anyway.
B) Marquis rewrote the gift order in order to
C) Flames rewrote the order in order to frame Marquis. Kind of tinfoil, but possible.

The only other scumteam I could see making sense would be bert/marquis, since marquis could have rewritten everything and bert could have told him to pick the only other possibly safe box left, but that's a stretch and we have no way of knowing the difference anyway.

Marquis is the most likely hit on scum based on the way the gifts went down. The only thing that's bugging me is the fact that he had the opportunity to give me the killbox and didn't, but that might just be a side effect of being at the bottom of the list since he couldn't possibly predict the gift giving going the way it did. That, and the possibility of having a get-out-of-jail free card would easily be more than enough security to not get rekt by the setup.

PEdit: Okay, what PMs did you get?

[Shinobi]

B) Marquis rewrote the gift order in order to save himself.

Ebwop.

[Shinobi]

Also I'm not really indicating that Flames and Marquis have to be a scumteam based on the White Elephant.

I'm just stating that it's possible. I actually think it's pretty unlikely but I wanted to map out my thought process.

[Shinobi]

That depends - you want a present covered in Ebola?

[Shinobi]

I'm going to sleep and I'll check back later to see if my logic holds up when I'm not sleep deprived.

[Shinobi]

That depends - you want a present covered in Ebola?

Before I sleep, one more thing I want to add to this:

The reason you might not be connecting Ebola and present locking is that we haven't seen that ability in play yet, ergo there was no real connection for us to make without us seeing it beforehand.

We know the order swap exists. Someone must have caused it. What item/items fits the description for messing up the gift giving order? Nobody claimed it, so either someone claims it and explains why they did it or it's incredibly likely that scum had/used it to help their team without telling town.

[Shinobi]

you also had to read it to find my pick for you and you posted too so :/

Meh, I knew my sleep deprivation was making me miss something.

Gdi.

[Shinobi]

Meh, I might still just sheep Wisdom here.

[Shinobi]

Eh.

[Shinobi]

I'd feel much better about a pianist lynch atm.

This angle I'm working on with Marquis is garbage.

[Shinobi]

Marquis who's scum if I'm not?

[Shinobi]

Well at least my giant posting spree wasn't totally stupid.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: Marquis

Well I tried. Feel free to keep voting me for nothing.

[Shinobi]

Shameless prod dodge.

I don't see what else we can talk about if Marquis is just going to shitpost and leave.

[Shinobi]

Couldn't you have waited for other people to come back first?

[Shinobi]

How can you even justify that hammer by saying this has gone on while 2-3 other people aren't even around, including the guy that you just hammered?

[Shinobi]

Yeah, but that doesn't mean you just up and yolo hammer people. Cripes.

I've got some other stuff to say but I won't say anything until after flip.

[Shinobi]

Yeah it is.

Also good job on that lynch I guess.

[Shinobi]

1

Aronis take 2.

[Shinobi]

VOTE: pianist

Don't see a reason not to. #yolo

[Shinobi]

Gee I wonder Aronis what it could mean.

PS notice how Shinobi put town at l-1 twice and said yolo

I don't see how this means anything.

[Shinobi]

3

[Shinobi]

Flames if you have Aronis as a scumread then why did you vote with him twice?

[Shinobi]

The only explanation for two no-kills in a row is that there's a second third party.

Why would we think there's a no-killbox rule by day 4? That's a completely arbitrary way of stopping mafia from being able to kill people and doesn't really fit any kind of ruleset I've ever heard of.

[Shinobi]

Either that, or there's only one scum.

I don't understand why scum wouldn't kill someone there though. There's no way for there to be a scumteam of two because they would win immediately.

I don't understand why, even if there's only one mafioso left, they wouldn't kill in this scenario anyway. That just gives town two opportunities to lynch correctly.

So...There's still probably only a third party left. It's possible we're dealing with two third parties and a scumteam of only one player.

[Shinobi]

That doesn't make sense, though.

[Shinobi]

What do third parties come back as to cop roles?

[Shinobi]

i dont get how random third parties make more sense than the default 3 mafia

I just explained why this probably isn't the case.

What scumteam negates killing people in these circumstances?

[Shinobi]

Why wouldn't they be able to kill though?

Saying that there are no killing boxes past day 4 is so arbitrary and doesn't really make a whole lot of sense.

[Shinobi]

But we already know there's a third party in the setup.

[Shinobi]

I don't see how having a third party in the game negates the existence of other third parties, especially when people haven't died for two days in a row.

[Shinobi]

Okay, fair enough.

[Shinobi]

Can someone explain why Bert is town?

[Shinobi]

I'm around.

I don't understand why I would lynch either of Flames or Aronis atm.

[Shinobi]

Working on it.

The fact that I don't have a definitive answer at this point really bothers me.

[Shinobi]

Can someone give me an answer as to why Bert is town? This:

Welcome back I fuess. I can explain why Bert is town. My role PM assures me I'm town. Next question?

Doesn't help me.

[Shinobi]

I was being facetious. Why aren't flames and Aronis in your lynchpool?

I know you are, but it still kinda bugs me that nobody can give me an answer. I don't know if that means that you're actually mafia or if that means I'm staring into the blinding sun of towniness that is Bert.

When I get home from work I'll look into the Aronis/Flames thing a little more. I don't really do associative reads so I'm kind of hesitant about jumping on board with a case centered on them.

[Shinobi]

I didn't really redact the scumread. I don't think I ever had a real scumread on you in the first place, aside from your vig shot. You've mostly been null, and that usually worries me at this part of the game, especially when people start showing up on others' townlists for no reason.

The most important part of that final quote you posted is that "we have no way of knowing the difference anyway." A bert/marquis team is certainly possible, but what I quoted was not convincing evidence either way.

Also, I redacted my reasoning on voting for you earlier in the game due to autocorrect.

[Shinobi]

This game gets more attention tonight. I just realized something but I'm heading off to work really soon.

[Shinobi]

Sorry guys, internet's been out.

I feel like Bert is probably town, which would leave flames and shinobi. I'd prefer to lynch Flames today as that's my strongest read.

Can you elaborate pls?

[Shinobi]

I don't like that case.

[Shinobi]

So you're gonna say Aronis's case of my hammer and PoE is better when he hammered twice.

No.

I don't think either of your cases are very good.

[Shinobi]

okay
Why are Bert and shinobi town then

When Bert is scum it's really really really obvious. There is a huge difference bewteen his play imo. Like read a town game of his and a scum game and compare them.

Can you provide examples?

I've played with Bert once and he was town, but only for a day. I have no idea how to read him meta-wise.

[Shinobi]

Aronis can you tell me why he's obvious?

Like obvious how?

I don't know how scum!Bert operates.

[Shinobi]

Shinobi did you decide on who you think is scum?

The only thing I've gleaned is that I can maybe vote inside of Flames/Aronis with impunity without sinking the whole game.

[Shinobi]

[Shinobi]

The flavor was amazing. I had fun.

I'm just kind of annoyed that I spent almost all game calling out Bert and a bunch of people still had him as town for no reason. It's like my posts disappear into the ether when people don't want to read them.

I was probably going to vote Aronis today just because he wouldn't back up his Bert read. Not exactly spectacular reasoning but I would've felt better about killing him for deliberately being obtuse over Flames posting a case I wasn't a fan of.

[Shinobi]

I know.

I didn't have any awesome "Aronis is scum and there can be no other way" analysis but I was still going to lynch him for annoying me. I'm not actually surprised that Flames got lynched here at all.