In the great Halibut's eyes, only the chosen may thrive.
—Mini 1635— Curse of the Werewolves: Game Over
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 20, Andrius wrote:Vote: farside
The Great Smoked Halibut does not shirk when the enemy so willingly presents itself.
First game back, let's see how this shakes out.
Vote: farside22
The Lesser Fried Sanddab swims alongside its larger and smarter brother in the hopes that two fish bodies may accomplish more than one.
Spoiler:"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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In post 29, Southern Gothic wrote:i think nacho's dumb vote on me is a reach out of some sorts cos when he is scum HE IGNORES THE FUCK OUT OF ME AND PRETENDS LIKE I DO NOT EXIST.
BUT HE SHLD KNOW BETTER
For a moment, I forgot my lady was an extremely elderly and sensitive one and votes on her were like shining the full might of the sun's radiance on a dweller of the night. Your loyal servant will endeavor to do better in the future.
In post 30, Andrius wrote:mollie, Nacho ignores me too but I just sit and wait for him to return. You have to trust in him too. Like you trust in the Great Smoked Salmon. Though I do not deny that there is sometimes sadness when I am overlooked for a prettier fish girl.
Andylove,
My ears are always open to your adventures and woes and I am always sitting by Skype with anticipation that one day you will return to me. I never intended to abandon my river-brother.
In post 74, Iecerint wrote:You're presuming I have a crush on you for your conciliatory personality.
ilu iece
Spoiler:"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 82, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Nacho's become weirder.
There's always a method to my madness, ABR.
Vote: ABR
I don't really find you being nice to be indicative of scum, but I can acknowledge unusual behavior makes you more likely to be a wolf playing a sheep than small farside pings that I can't really explain. In particular though, I didn't like your conditioning comment: my goal this game isn't to make the people I'm playing with more pleasant to play with, my goal is to win. Your comment came across like either I should be more focused on the former than the latter OR you were threatening to revert to mean ABR, and neither interpretation exactly inspires confidence."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 73, Albert B. Rampage wrote:Gentlemen, let's be reasonable. Voting for me for being complimentary and expressing my approval of you is like feeding your dog when he's begging for food while you're eating. You're not reinforcing the behavior you want to elicit here.
This is the conditioning comment I'm referring to.
Andrius's townread on Iecerint (which I thought you were questioning?) is what Iecerint is referring to."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I enjoy Andrius quite a bit as a person. He has been gone for a while. As a result, probably gonna fall all over him. In the meantime, I'm making a real life push on ABR and have put out probably as much or more alignment indicative material than anyone else in thread?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I agree that the personality bit wasn't really that awesome to me, hence why I didn't follow Pine when he voted initially. The reason I ended up voting because ofABR's feeding dogs comment, as I mentioned earlier."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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In post 101, Southern Gothic wrote:In post 38, farside22 wrote:In post 29, Southern Gothic wrote:In post 23, Andrius wrote:Is that still not standard for hydras?
andy we have a hydra and I never sign my posts I don't really feel like I need to cos most people will figure out it is me in a matter of minutes. when tth posts you will know it.
yes far, tth and I did talk about the players as they were signing up. I have hydras with nacho, andy and who and tth has a hydra with jingle that is waiting to be used I think. she wanted to know if I had experience with the playerlist and I said I think every1 sort of but i don't remember the game I played with 4 trouble and albert subbed out of the 1 game we had together.
i think nacho's dumb vote on me is a reach out of some sorts cos when he is scum HE IGNORES THE FUCK OUT OF ME AND PRETENDS LIKE I DO NOT EXIST.
BUT HE SHLD KNOW BETTER
Curious to know what you two ladies said about me.
I had imagined some paranoia or hate after our last game together.
far this is the closest thing to a question that I found and it is more of a comment than a question.
sorry, we didn't talk about you that much! I don't have a good enough baseline for you yet but i think I said something to the effect of "we will see how she goes". tth may have her own opinion tho. mostly i talked about nacho and andy and then some who. <---- hydra partners. who i don't know so well but tth has a hydra with jingle. I don't they have a completed yet tho.
Can we write smut together again? I loved it when we were doing that."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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In post 100, Albert B. Rampage wrote:I was being facetious. Come now, let's vote out the southern gothic abomination.
I am part of more abominations than most if not all players on site, so I can't really join you in a hydra policy lynch."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 226, Southern Gothic wrote:waiting on nacho!"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I wasn't trying to discourage your behavior either. I don't understand the since when question.Last edited by Shadowmod on Thu Jan 01, 2015 1:07 pm, edited 1 time in total."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 108, Southern Gothic wrote:I don't know what to do with albert. I can't tell if he is scum or not like I really can't tell.
I can't either! But I don't like his pushes so far and I don't like a few things he's done thus far, so.
This seems like a poorly timed vote: farside's reaffirmation of her vote on FourTrouble actually looked pretty townish!
In post 142, Iecerint wrote:126 is odd, though. Not sure why she jumped in like that when she could've just waited for you to say something.
Why is this scummy, exactly?
Mollie, I don't like your Konowa vote."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 253, Southern Gothic wrote:okay. this is the second time that you seem to not understand what I am doing. I have my reasons and I am still waiting for konowa to get with us since he said he was doing some reassessment.
OK.
I'm just telling you Konowa's probably town."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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Also sorry if I'm coming across as a dick or as overly frank, I'm hungover because it's January 1st! I'm reading over the game a bit more now and hopefully will be able to put out my reads by the time the pizza gets here."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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where i'm coming from is i can see you sort of gearing up on konowa and i wanted to tell you that i have a pretty good townread on him that i will explain more thoroughly when i do my big type up. i think flames/abr make a stronger starting point"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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like abr not picking on all is who the actual hydra abomination seems like him trying to continue not to play to the crowd since his beginning push on you guys didn't really go so well. i think abr's strength as scum is playing to the crowd around him: he generally knows the right amount of aggressiveness people are gonna like, he knows the types of angles people are willing to push, etc. i see him playing to the crowd here whereas konowa just seems like he's playing emotionally"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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and i really liked that he's thinking about your points that brought up: his unvote from farside with the whole "i'm gonna get drunk and rethink things" screamed town"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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In post 266, Southern Gothic wrote:so i can go there with you if you want.
In post 269, Southern Gothic wrote:it is 2 votes and you know I don't move my/our vote until I am ready. I am not ready, hence why i said I feel like I am squatting on reads in this game.
"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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tbf i'm not the one who made a promise and immediately broke it
and i wanted to bring it up since you're old and going senile so it's actually probably pretty likely you forgot you made it in the first place???"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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I've been marathoning all of the avatar the last airbender episodes, will report back as a new man when I finish Season 3. I think Iec is a pretty horrible vote!"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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In post 363, Southern Gothic wrote:I am here iceyrent!!! I will keep you company!!!
patiently waiting for konowa and flames.
Did you notice Konowa replaced out?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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In post 600, Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:Southern Gothic, Southern Belles, you knew I was addressing you.
Why obsess over the minutiae of posts? I showed concern for this obsession earlier.
Why do you think this obsession is alignment indicative, Gilgy?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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In post 603, Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:Only scum would concern themselves with such petty nitpicking.
I figured that you would not be someone who needed to be encouraged to look deep inside himself in order to gain a better sense of perspective, my prince, but I feel a lot of the angles of yours that I've read have been pretty nitpicky, even this one! People asking to be calling the correct names is not something I've ever cared about, but it's pretty common across the board.
Also, mollie is someone who is often concerned with small details:
bazinga wrote:~ Mollie's Case(s)~
okay let me preface this by saying I am extremely uncomfortable with outing ansuz's meta but I will cos I want you guys to see what I see.
this was nacho's first post:
In post 63, Ansuz wrote:In post 59, bazinga wrote:In post 56, Ansuz wrote:MY MOTHERFUCKING AVATAR IS OFF THE CHAIN
it looks like a poor imitation of thorella tbh
I'm not afraid to throw the game by tunneling the hell out of you for no apparent reason.
I think scum Tammy is shaking in her scum boots right now and Formerfish is like "fuck, I didn't sign up for defending chucklefuck partners".
tammy and former had only made 1 confirm post at this point but nacho has decided that they are scum. okay. formerathena makes a big long post and calls ansuz town and then ansuz gets sticky with the original lulz scumread, looking for reasons to paint the post as scummy.
this is the biggest mistake that scum make on this site. trying to justify an rvs suspicion or vote so that they do not have to move around too much. this is scum holding back but trying to look busy while watching to see where town herd mentality will go.<-------- huge huge scumtell.
and then oh hai look a wagon is starting to form on bazinga and nacho goes, "this in no way reflects what I truly think" and then he votes me after about 10 exchanges with rancid where he defended me. but here is the thing;he leaves the vote there and disappears knowing that there was a possibility that I would be quicklynched. I meltdown, we tussle a bit he then moves it and then proceeds to go after tammy. tammy's wagon picks up steam under the direction of pfr and ansuz and then tammy meltsdown. they then decide to unvote tammy but not call her town and say they have hydra dissonance.
town nacho does not start wagons on tammy and mollie unless he is absolutely sure we are scum (note he has not called her town) and he definitely tends to those wagons in case he is wrong (he never is as town).<--- he did not do this.
there are a million other things but the biggest 1 is that I have played over 60 games with nacho and only mislynched him onceand have spotted him as scum every time. most of the time it did not lead to his lynch but the read was there.
I can read nacho.<----- plz plz plz trust me on this.
re: pirate speak
how many times have you been scum? 10? 20? imagaine have over 50 scum games. you get bored. 1 of the things you start to do is to come up with mini-games like, find all of the specials on d1, give each other 3 improbable words that have nothing to do with each other and fit them in 1 post - little games like that. so you think of ways to make it fun! and trolling is certainly 1 of them.
now. daytalk. I have noticed that the majority of the players do not know how to pick up on when scum have daychat. in daychat you become familiar with each other and you are excited especially if you like your scummates and sometimes that talk carries over into the game thread. it carried over with ap and I in legends a little bit and it did with majiffy and I in reign of fire. the association between ansuz and rancid is how overly familiar they are with each other. <----- I have played them both in games they are usually not that friendly. so right there is an indication that there is likely a conversation going on someplace other than the game thread.
so i am thinking that the scumteam are feeling pretty confident about each other are super excited and decided to do this whole pirate theme I mean muffina changed his avvie and everything and talk like pirates. so they are having fun, they made a bet and things are going their way, they banter andno1 suspects a thing.
except something doesn't seem right. the agreement to pirate speak defo took place somewhere other than in the game thread, their original use of it was way too natural andI cannot emphasize enough the convo looks like it started somewhere else.
I in my vanity thought nacho pmed some people in sign-ups in order to troll me cos we are always trolling each other. the site I come from trolling is a highly prized skill, it is a way to ruthlessly cut down the people you don't like or it can be used as a way to show affection. <---- this may seem bizarre to you but at tr things are rarely what they seem. so, then I noticed that of all people who should have picked up on the pirate speak (bro) was not doing it. that bump against the tide me realise that not every1 was in on the troll, just a few. there was definitely a distinction between those who were in on it and those weren't. so I went and checked and there are 3 players who are doing it -----> 3. since ansuz was my top suspect I pieced it together and started to draw the parallels between what they were saying. go check for yourself if you don't believe me.
go and look at their pushes, look at their votes and you will see the connectivity there. take everything you know about scumhunting and step back and look at it globally and you will spot the team. what you are seeing with the pirate speak is an informed minority (pirates) vs. an uninformed majority (amazons and the rest of town).
now ask, why would scum tie themselves up like that it is retarded. there is a very simple answer to thatthey did not expect to get caught. most town do not pick up on little things like that. and I almost missed it myself. so that should tell you they had a very reasonable expectation of not getting caught. I mean I am the only who picked up on it.
so muffina and have a kerfuffle and I realise that with our discussion he is not trying to determine my alignment. then he got all pissy and I decided to take a step back and drink some koolaid and look at things from another angle mebbe I am just seeing things. so I do!
what gave muffina away was his response to my post; it was weird. instead of immediately addressing me he instead goes after clubhouse whom I was soft suspecting. when he addresses me he seems genuinely puzzled but also relieved. <---- I look for players responses after I give out reads. desp then unvotes tammy and I am thinking no fucking way would nacho go after tammy that hard if he was not sure. tammy can back me up on this. and that is when I knew; I was right the first time. so I puked up the koolaid and began a campaign to bring those cheeky scumfucks down.
where ap misstepped is as soon as I came roaring back to life mauffina backed down and then ap steps and then goes after sg. sg is even more obvtown than I am and I know for a fact that town ap would have seen that. he was trying to shift the direction of the flow.
In post 1111, bazinga wrote:In post 1109, Paranoia Fueled Rampage wrote:So what you are telling me, is that you really want to be policy lynched today.
In post 1110, Rancid Broderick Drake wrote:VOTE: bazinga
Yaaar! The damn bird should put the Cardassian in lead!
CAUGHT SCUM IS CAUGHT SCUM!!
SCUM ARE NOT GOING TO HELP US BY BUSSING THEIR TEAMMATES
THIS IS SOMETHING TOWN WILL HAVE TO DO ON THEIR OWN.
READ THE ABOVE POSTS
BURN IT INTO YOUR MIND
THESE ARE ANSUZ'S SCUMMATES
^ this post. look at those 2 posts that I quoted.ap is not going to try to pl me and I am pretty sure at this point rancid knows I am not scum. those 2 posts are scumclaims.they are not a part of the uninformed majority.
to me it does not get any clearer than this. if all of the players had not played the way that they did there would be no way any1 could piece this together. and this is what I meant by timing; ap going after sg in the way that he did looked desperate. I think he thought that since I had said I was ignoring her I would not care.<--- this is why I don't always say what I really think of a player or share meta cos if I had shared what I really thought of sg ap would not have touched her with a 10 foot pole.sg has been my strongest townread from the get go and I have waiting for scum to jump on her. and big bird did.
I know I am right cos I see how the scumteam are responding; they have sort of given up. and no big bird openly talking about him being scum and me catching him is not playing against his wc, ap is playing the too scummy to be scum and "scum would never do that" card cos town usually falls for it every single time. yo know the saying on this site is "every time some1 says scum would never do that a scummer receives a scummy".
I hope this helps. I am not normally this disclosive cos it tells scum how I scumhunt and they can refine their meta and shape their play around mine. <--- this has happened to me a lot on the other sites that I play on.
I know it looks too good to be true, trust me I know! but I am used to doing it is just only the second or third time I have done it on this site. but if nacho was not scum he would be telling you that he has seen me do this before.
scumteam is ansuz, pfr and rancid.toss out everything you think you know about the gamestate and suspend disbelief and trust me on this. it is best if you do your own scum hunting to see for yourself, just don't get sucked into their web of lies and deceit.
dare to believe. dare to be fierce and kick scum's ass so we can brag about how we just pwned the shit out of some of the best players on the site and I do mean "we". I could never have here by myself you guys have helped so so much by being very town and fucking with scum on your own!
so lets win this shall we?
...so if you're trying to sell a case on her seeing things that you aren't, it's a case you're selling to the wrong crowd."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.-
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Andrius:
I get a good sense of town-Andrius from his posting, in part because his last performance as scum lacked all of the natural drive and passion that this game has. And, I know I'm biased to read him as town because this is probably the one chance I will get to play with him again and it would be a dark disappointment if he just happened to be scum, but that fear aside, still reading him as town.
I lightly townread him for his townread on Iecerint: although my townread on Iecerint stems from different reasons (most of them I can't explain now but will attempting to do so as I continue to read), I feel Iecerint's early take on the game was pretty town and Andrius picking up on that and pushing that is more likely to come from a town mindset than not.
The meat of my townread on Andrius, however, comes from three events:
1) Reaction to Pine's Fake Day Cop Claim:
First of all, if ABR is scum (seems a strong choice at the moment), shutting down a fake guilty on your scumbuddy immediately is a fairly risky move if the claim is real and I don't think Andy is confident enough of a scum player in order to step up and defend a scumbuddy in that matter. Second of all, the way that he approached it seemed a pretty natural way to sort out the situation as opposed to scum deciding how to react to the situation (and I don't think this is something they pre-coordinated in the scum QT): his initial reaction was to call the claim "highly improbable", then did some more reading into it and became confident when he noticed Pine's "let's make this interesting" tone. In these sorts of situations, I think that the conservative scum approach is to step back and wait and see how the general town reacts to it (does town fall for it and create an town on town horrorfest/does town fall for it and wagon scum on bullshit?) regardless of partner's alignment, and Andy, if anything, is a conservative scum player. This point is strongest thanks to my knowledge of Andrius's meta: if you are not the type of player who likes meta, read on.
2) His interaction with farside:
I thought that his interaction with farside does well to demonstrate him trying to sort out things as well as a frustration when he's not understood. In particular, clarification offered in #511 was good simply because of how genuine it comes across: I don't think it'd be possible to break down and clarify "trying to figure things out" more than Andy did at that point. His explanation of his response to the Pine claim and how that affected his Iecerint read makes sense as well, considering switching that read as scum would be a risky move (and a weird one, lots of people had already engaged him on the Iecerint read and turning on a townread out of the blue alienates you no reason), but switching that read as town makes a lot of sense thanks to his own reaction to the fakeclaim.
3) Opposing the Victor Lynch
I find the Victor lynch lazy as hell. Yes, he's been useless, but lynching him when we've already had discussion of several good scum suspects that haven't towned up whatsoever is lazy and is scum taking the path for least resistance. Andrius expressing dissent with this option is 1) really really good if Victor is town because who would ignore a mislynch that easy? And 2) Good even if Victor is scum because at the time he defended him, it looked like lynch was going through and he would be burning a lot of towncred to defend dead weight, which is another unlikely move.
Re: Iecerint: I feel your earlier townread on Iecerint is better than your recent scumread on him. I feel Iec, while a good player certainly, has a tendency to spend too much time focusing on possibilities than he does actually taking action and pushing (his self-evaluation of "listing all of the possibilities and wallowing in inaction" is a pretty spot-on evaluation of his game's weakness). I don't feel that his response to Pine was scummy as a result: maybe it would be scummy for less analytical players or players more prone to knee-jerk reactions like you or I, but not really for him. I also disagree that chaining together mislynches in the case of a fake guilty is scummy: if town decide to be dumb for no reason and push through a fakeclaim guilty on an innocent, as you noted, there's no scum action needed to get those two mislynches, thus giving scum no motive to chain them together. You could argue maybe he was just trying to guarantee both lynches went through, but if he wanted to accomplish that purpose, I think he would be giving more reasons why he believe Pine's claim as opposed to listing out the consequences.
I can't really comment on FT, considering the case of FT is mostly a lack of presence and I haven't read up on FT as much as I would have liked to."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 613, Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:I fail to see how 123 shows an "emotional investment in scumhunting". Even when she delves into a meta-iso in 159 and makes a one-off comment about the iso. It shows she put in slight effort, finding a comment 50 posts down, but that's about it. Effort is not a towntell and I fail to see how that can't be faked.
Emotional investment is demonstrated in the exchange with Konowa starting at #123, not in #123 itself. Language and orly owl in #139 at least shows confidence and a pretty strong belief that she's in the right. #160 makes some pretty strong assertions and similar comments for page 7, #167 explains not only why she finds Konowa's quickly changing reasons are scummy (it looks like he's providing justification for a conclusion he's already reached), why she's railing as hard as she was against him (she feels he's uncomfortable with engaging people which is why he's sniping farside from the sidelines instead of actually engaging her). To me, emotional investment in a case is a developed thought process, passion enough to come through posting, and genuineness. To me, the exchange shows all of these: why do you disagree?
In post 613, Gilgamesh King Of Heroes wrote:The first point is TTH trying to attack Konowa from farside's POV. She's not trying to understand Konowa at all. The second point is TTH saying "you have biases and so you interpreted this post wrong". Which is not a strong point?
Why do you say this is TTH trying to attack Konowa from farside's POV? The bias point, which Konowa acknowledged and brought up himself (so it's not presumed, it's acknowledged), points out that a lot of Konowa's push is irrational because he was frustrated with farside's behavior in an earlier game. As far as understanding where Konowa is coming from, TTH does that when she figures out that Konowa's main problem was the closemindedness and frankness of farside's response to FT, TTH points out that she's not being a dick for no reason and there's a progression to the hostility.
If what you're trying to say is that you feel like TTH is coming down overly hard on Konowa as opposed to farside, then yeah, she's doing that, but she's writing a case on Konowa, so that's sort of to be expected.
I don't understand why I have to pick a side in the argument if the way they are both approaching it is town: just because I disagree with their push doesn't mean I think it's bad and it doesn't mean I think it makes them scum. I just think it's wrong, my prince."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 624, FourTrouble wrote:In post 620, All is Who wrote:I've come to expect dumb wagonhopping from ABR, but tell me, 4Tuppence, why Victor is the best lynch here. Exactly why do you believe he is scum? What will his scumflip tell you? Was there anything going through your head when you voted him other than "God, I hope I'm not lynched today."?
Yes, there was more to the vote than hoping I'm not lynched (though obviously that's a factor). Victor is probably scum based on process of elimination. I also disagree with Nacho that it's a "lazy" lynch. For me, it's based on townreads which weren't lazy at all. And Victor's "scumflip" would tell us quite a lot, in terms how/when people vote for Victor, especially in relation to the wagon on me, or potential counter-wagons on others. We don't need Victor's reads for that sort of information, and ultimately that's the kind of information I'm interested in.
If you have strong townreads on 10 players, you have three scumspects. I feel you'd get a much better idea of if your perceptions would be correct if you pushed the stronger scumreads and see if they towned in response: pushing Victor tells me that you have the entire game figured out and I know you're not that bad/that blinded by arrogance to make that type of a push."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 626, FourTrouble wrote:In post 619, Nachomamma8 wrote:I can't really comment on FT, considering the case of FT is mostly a lack of presence and I haven't read up on FT as much as I would have liked to.
Seriously? You've played with me before and should know that's not a scum-tell for me. Plus, I don't actually lack presence this game; I was on vacation until two days ago and didn't have time to post. And I value concision and don't feel like cluttering up the thread with meaningless bullshit like half the players here.
Clarification: I didn't say or mean to imply I was scumreading you, I said I didn't feel informed enough to give an opinion on you since I'm still behind in the game."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Iecerint... is a much harder player for me to analyze because we have radically different playstyles/perceptions of things. I think a major marker of Iec-scum in my personal experience is that the ratio of doing stuff to the ratio of analysis tends to become much more impressive as scum when he's town: Iecerint town behavior early game tends to be putting all the pieces on the table in front of him, general assembly happens much more aggressively late game. His early entrance this game felt exactly like Zodiac Mafia's early entrance which I hate to say because I know there's not really a strong reason for it, but it dictates a lot of my earlygame read on him, so worth bringing up anyways. For me, the two moments that most poignantly defined Iec-town for me happened during his ABR and his Andrius exchanges: in his ABR exchange, he rails against ABR hard for not reading his votepost on Andy closely and not actually reading what he's saying despite "sheeping him": I have trouble believing Iecerint would care half as much as to specific reasons why someone is sheeping him, but it makes a lot of sense for town!Iecerint with suspicions on ABR to be picking up on that. I liked his exchange with Andrius because I thought that he chose a strange time to back off if scum/the way he went about explaining/attacking/pushing the read and then backing off again seemed very genuine to me."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Nachomamma8 Devil in the Details
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In post 631, FourTrouble wrote:In post 628, Nachomamma8 wrote:If you have strong townreads on 10 players, you have three scumspects. I feel you'd get a much better idea of if your perceptions would be correct if you pushed the stronger scumreads and see if they towned in response: pushing Victor tells me that you have the entire game figured out and I know you're not that bad/that blinded by arrogance to make that type of a push.
I don't have 10 townreads but I do have enough to justify a lynch: Iece, pine, ABR, Pere, far, you, and Gilgamesh. I have some doubts about Southern but they were also a strong townread earlier. For the record, I pushed Andrius most of the game, so it's not like I've pushed Victor all game. I pushed my strongest scumread first (before I solidified townreads on the above). So the only alternative to Victor is Who or Titus. Who probably isn't getting lynched though I'm willing to jump on that. And Titus is not much different than Victor (both haven't done shit).
What do you think of my towncase on Andrius?
Why are my concerns with ABR incorrect?
Didn't Titus replace Konowa who was pretty town?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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All Is Who:
I didn't like #188 because I have no idea how he formed the reads he did based on the posts he did except for that Pine was town and ABR was scum because Pine brought up a good point about ABR's conciliatory nature, but that was it.
In post 332, All is Who wrote:He's voting an IC. His reaction to pine was weird. I haven't seen anything incredibly town from him.
Is the reason for voting Iecerint, which is additionally weak.
The major points of their scumcase on ABR are:
1) Buddying, which Pine talked about at the beginning of the game.
2) The threat post, which I talked about at the beginning of the game.
3) Not enough reasoning on his quick position changes? Which seem to be an ABR staple?
4) Not interacting with the hydra as a whole.
I find this a surprisingly bad case, considering how scummy in general ABR's been this game? It didn't seem like either of them built up to the ABR case at all before dropping that huge one, which is another red flag/gigantic question mark (feels like they were just trying to ram through the lynch for the lynch's sake). It's also a major problem that this is all the content that this hydra has provided to the game thus far."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 196, FourTrouble wrote:I don't like his entrance, or 186, or 190, or any of his posts. His comments feel like someone trying to post shit but not actually trying to figure shit out. Voting me is like going after the easiest target you can grab onto (besides folks who've posted nothing), especially with shitty reasoning like "underwhelming presence." I also don't like how he calls Nacho or Iece "still" town (admittedly this ain't slam-dunk evidence or anything like that but I think saying "still town" comes from a scum mindset even if town do it too; it's like unconsciously expressing that they won't always be town).
Voting you as an easy target early game is not a scumtell for me in any sense whatsoever: if it is early game and you fall behind in RVS, you get voted by a town playing well. That is how scum is caught early. I don't think "underwhelming presence" is a bad reason for voting early game, or in general, and I find it strange you criticized this reason early-game when it's the reason you're trying to lynch Victor now. "Still town" means that the read has a possibility for change in the future: your scum-side evaluation seems too twisted and complicated for me to give it any credit.
In post 451, FourTrouble wrote:I'd much rather lynch Andrius or one of the folks opposing his lynch.
When and why did the Andrius scumread become strong enough for you to view defending him as suspect?
In post 456, FourTrouble wrote:Also, Andrius isn't burnt out - he had a break, right? - so his level of investment isn't very telling.More telling is who he votes for, when, and why. That stuff suggests he's scum.
Could you expound on this a bit? I know the vote on you earlier, but I need more than that."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 635, FourTrouble wrote:Basically, I feel like players who take a break (at least in my case I've felt this way) tend to become more passionate on their first game back, regardless of alignment, so that's not really giving me town in his case (absent a break from mafia I'd agree with you).
In general, yes. If ABR had took a long break from mafia and then came back early game posting like a kitten, I'd agree that it was probably because of break and not because of alignment issues. In this game, Andy has been playing to pretty much his old town meta, which he had trouble emulating when he was active and at his peak. I don't think he learned to fake his town meta by taking a break.
In post 635, FourTrouble wrote:Your point about opposing the Victor lynch also isn't compelling, since Victor wasn't a viable lynch at that point (only me and ABR were on it), while the lynch on me was much more likely. What's the scum motive for supporting a counter-wagon (Victor) when you already have a good chance of getting a mislynch (on me)?
This point is weaker than I thought it was thanks to a lack of context that I got recently, apologies.
There is scum motivation in allowing a lazy wagon near deadline to spring up, even if it derails a mislynch: if he is scum trying to mislynch town-you and deadline wagon pops up on a townie, he can continue pushing you tomorrow and will very likely be able to get you mislynched tomorrow after you've burned towncred a bit more by leading a deadline counterwagon on a townie. Pulling the "no, we're not lynching today, this is lazy as hell" card is still a ballsy move in protecting a scumbuddy thanks to risk/reward (he probably wasn't gonna get lynched anyways/if he continues playing like that, won't survive very long). Frustration spurned from "if you think I'm not reading things right, you're a bad reader" is generally town frustration since it doesn't make sense to get frustrated at that sort of thing when scum."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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I'm gonna take a break from mafia for an hour or so, but if when I come back you could give me a more clearer picture of why you find Andy as scummy as you do and maybe get that vote off Victor and onto All is Who, I'd be pretty grateful.
In the meantime...
Spoiler: smut"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 642, FourTrouble wrote:197 is where I started solidifying that read; Andrius continues voting me but this time it's for voting him... plus he also acknowledges I'm V/LA. At this point, he doesn't seem engaged with the game; his reason to vote me sucks and he's not looking at anyone else.
You were a suspect of his. This is a valid suspicion because farside (another townread of yours) also suspected him at that point in time. When you return, all you say is that his posts suck and the still tell (which isn't really a slam dunk awesome tel), then leave again. Why should he have unvoted at this point?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 642, FourTrouble wrote:Then notice how he "suspects" ABR, but keeps his vote on me. He just adds fire to the mounting suspicion on ABR but doesn't engage that read. He just puts it out there as support for a potential wagon. Then he "suspects" Pere, but of course keeps his vote on me.
You have both of these players as town, correct? Why is it scummy for Andrius not to vote these players?
I don't think Andrius not wandering far from who he voted originally is scummy: gamestate changed dramatically yes, but I don't think anything too radical has happened until recently where you somehow shouldn't be a suspect anymore."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 642, FourTrouble wrote:Also his reason for suspecting Pere: Pere says he doesn't have any reads. No one else comments on that (as far as I remember) and for good reason. I think any townie can relate to that feeling so why is that suspect? It's not.
He explains why past experience makes it a special kind of tell for him: you didn't buy that?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 642, FourTrouble wrote:There isn't any depth or independence of thought, which is what I expect from townies.
What about his Iec read?"Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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Last edited by Shadowmod on Sat Jan 10, 2015 4:41 am, edited 2 times in total."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 849, Southern Gothic wrote:In post 844, Nachomamma8 wrote:hey mollie can today be the day where you DON'T ignore the shit out of me?
tia
I am not ignoring you
how many times have you sought out interaction with me after saying i was town?Last edited by Shadowmod on Fri Jan 16, 2015 10:55 am, edited 1 time in total."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
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In post 851, Iecerint wrote:The intention of my post was mainly to call attention to the fact that you were on the outs for most of yesterday.
I know I was on the outs most of yesterday: I'm not disputing that fact and can't really do anything about it except seize the moment and post now, which is what I'm doing. My play has moved past "lurking Nacho = scum Nacho" for some time now so activity shouldn't be relevant for that reason, but if it is, feel free to vote me for it.
In post 851, Iecerint wrote:It's pretty dumb to complain about not being the center of attention while not being an active player.
I don't expect to be the center of attention unless I'm an active player. I expect certain players to interact with me and talk with me regardless of my activity level (in fact, I'd expect mollie to talk about me MORE when my activity level goes down). As mollie noted earlier in the game, me ignoring her as scum is a common occurrence because I hate interacting with her as scum because she can read me when she interacts with me. She doesn't like interacting with me as scum because I can read her when she interacts with me. Thus, when she and she alone doesn't interact with me enough during a game day, a red flag is raised. Based on my experience with her, I feel she didn't interact enough with me yesterday."Playing with Nacho is like playing with a religious conservative." ~UncertainKitten
-- Fate, Vanilla Townie, was brutally stabbed by a throwing sword in endgame.