Mini 1676 Marvel Mafia- Game Over

[Vilewhirl]

/confirm

[Vilewhirl]

VOTE: soren
because scum.
my reason is better.

[Vilewhirl]

you'll regret that.
VOTE: soren
because im a doublevoter.

[Vilewhirl]

Okay I'm going to need to know if that was a real claim Vilewhirl.

nah i was lying.

Spoiler:

im actually a triplevoter
VOTE: soren

[Vilewhirl]

good question.
would have been even gooder with a vote.

[Vilewhirl]

ah yes but are you voting anyone?
thats the real question.

[Vilewhirl]

also hi anti, mac, boo, bbt, hiplop, and anybody else I know.

hi.

it does though

boooooo.
boooooooooooo.

Wagons apparently produce information. Information is good.

sorenwagon was bigger. might still be even. why macvote over sorenvote if the job of your vote was to get wagongoing?

[Vilewhirl]

I don't like Soren's reaction and omgus. Also felt rude.

you could always vote.
or something.

this is all mac's fault for setting a precedent.

[Vilewhirl]

solid talk guys.

And Vile was obviously lieing about the double and triple vote thing now.

what gave it away?
are you going to start trying to convince people to vote me or are you content atm?

im still waiting for macs vote.
i want to see that guy make things happen.

[Vilewhirl]

why not convince people to vote for me given im clearly such a scummy liar?

[Vilewhirl]

or u could ask me a question.
123 ask me a question.
gogogo.

[Vilewhirl]

logically he has inconsistencies.
guttily hes okay.
not really interested in him atm.

they're pretty cool with or without capes.
depending on the girl.

[Vilewhirl]

Dude someone said doc ock are you autistic ? Seriously lol

please don't say stuff like this.

[Vilewhirl]

^please don't say stuff like this.

[Vilewhirl]

you wont last long in this game saying stuff like this.
there's no need to insult people.
keep it about mafia, not bashing the player.

[Vilewhirl]

i trust no one.
does that make me cool and unique?

[Vilewhirl]

Bbt bothered me more because a comment he made was something similar I said once to him and he was crazy paranoid about it.

!!!!!
VOTE: BBT
Let's go.

[Vilewhirl]

let's*

[Vilewhirl]

There's so many fights going on that it hurts my face.

could focus on things other then them then?

[Vilewhirl]

there is an entire lack of urgency to anything he is doing.
he isn't being paranoid enough atm.
seems out of character.

[Vilewhirl]

is he?
maybe i can hear it from him and hopefully not have you feed him answers like that ever again this game.
pls and ty.

[Vilewhirl]

hi soren.
are you almost ready to try and make reasons for voting me that arent really bad?

[Vilewhirl]

I like the quick detailed response. Town points for you

great. now tell me what you agree/disagree with and why you questioned someone voting a wagon youre already on vs someone voting someone else.

you're too scummy to be scum atm

didnt realize we were trying to lynch people who we think are town.

shinobi, i want all the juicy details on your sorenvote. give me them.

[Vilewhirl]

I thought I was voting for saint now.

no clue what you're asking whirl

true.
last votecount is scary. it told me things that simply are not true.

can you comment on your actual thoughts on what im saying about bbt tho or discuss it with me instead of just throwing a townread at me and calling it a day?

[Vilewhirl]

you don't necessarily think that his response was scummy.
was it null then?
or townish?

[Vilewhirl]

also.
shinobi i need you to not drag your feet.
vote someone new.
before i start voting you.
/threateningface

[Vilewhirl]

i refuse to chill out.

[Vilewhirl]

no.
will rejoice when you start doing things.

(•̀⌄•́)

[Vilewhirl]

what would demonstrate urgency? I agree he doesn't have any that I can see. Even considering it's day 1 I'd expect little more.

and yes blindly trusting abr is concerning. I don't k ow if id say it was a lack of paranoia. I don't think we necessarily need to be paranoid, but we should be questioning each other at this point. We shouldn't blindly trust anyone.

I can't com.ent on the out of character prong. I don't know him. What's his normal character?

hard to explain without meta-experience with townbbt.
hes a go-getter. a happenings-maker. and he apparently is easily paranoid of people.
this game he is a potato.
mash him.

[Vilewhirl]

him doing nothing =/= the quality of his opening this game being flat.
trusting abr is pretty balls too.
the guy has said like three things that arent getting mad at farside.

at the very least you should think about what i may or may not be doing and then think again before you dance in front of a nullread and not a townread to protect them from someone actually trying to scumhunt right now.

[Vilewhirl]

basically.
this is me saying that detracting momentum while adding none elsewhere is bad townplay.
iuno if you're town or scum or whatever.
just stop doing that.

[Vilewhirl]

how about i do that once hiplop responds to you?
do we have a deal?

[Vilewhirl]

yeah... there's also.... asking him to clarify. voting him is just a form of glorified vote parking.

this is slightly unfair given that i was pressuring him to vote someone.
i do agree that voting catman when he's vla is kinda bleh, but catman has said he can still post during his vla.
do i think shinobi should be voting someone more high-on-the-content? sure.
do you think thats scummy though?

[Vilewhirl]

I would like some resistance to my wagon. Where is it?

you had some. youre practically talking at the resisters here:

Shin and ABR should come talk to me so we can sort something out.

i think the consistent manner in which youre trying to trash the content in this game feels dishonest. especially since you were posting pretty shit-tier fluff earlygame as well.
this game isn't even close to being bad. if you keep saying it is, youll be doing a wonderful job of pulling the emotional tone of the game down. so feel free to stop doing that.

why is farside scum?
because shes voting for you for reasons you perceive as bad?

whats the difference between your buddying with abr and farside/boo's townreads on each other?

Absolutely not alignment indicative. At all.

ya?
we'll see.
i expect a gold star and a medal if you end up being scum and an apology for tarnishing my scumhunting skills.
ill say im sorry if you are town postgame.

[Vilewhirl]

dragon why are you voting saint?
tell me about it.

also tell me why bbt shouldnt get deaded.

[Vilewhirl]

glad you responded to the only thing that didnt matter at all in my last post bbt.

i think the consistent manner in which youre trying to trash the content in this game feels dishonest. especially since you were posting pretty shit-tier fluff earlygame as well.
this game isn't even close to being bad. if you keep saying it is, youll be doing a wonderful job of pulling the emotional tone of the game down. so feel free to stop doing that.

why is farside scum?
because shes voting for you for reasons you perceive as bad?

whats the difference between your buddying with abr and farside/boo's townreads on each other?

Viewhirl's lieing is too scummy to be scum.

yeah.
that's probably it.
you should talk about bbt. whats your read on him. what do you think of the wagon on him.

[Vilewhirl]

Dragon, Saint and Mac are rubbing me the wrong way though. I guess I could lynch one of them.

*Goes to check VC*.

so you arent scumreading farside anymore?
point out things between these three players that are rubbing you the wrong way. dont you dare make a dick joke either. i'll be sad.

[Vilewhirl]

hey guys look, its bbt dodging literally everything that's being addressed at him to posture about his wagon being bad.
and not even specifics either. just someone on his wagon is probably scum and not because of their reasoning its because of the speed of his wagon.

"i have no way to get into this game other than the questions that vile has given me twice and a wagon with which i could analyze the gamestate"
yeah. dont believe you at all. kill this guy.

[Vilewhirl]

like, the guy is a champion of early D1 wagons and he thinks speed of wagon is indicative?
he thinks meta is garbage, but speed of wagon is indicative?
ya ya ya okay guy.

you cant actually attack anyone on the wagon other than like saint because we all look really town or one of us is your scummate and youre scared to commit to an interaction there.
get wrekd.

[Vilewhirl]

again.
im telling you a way that you could literally do anything other than twiddle your thumbs and youre still acting like a butt.
have a hard time believing you believe what youre saying here.

mac get on board.
choo choo.
lets get a claim.

[Vilewhirl]

and youre expecting apologies from people who you think are apparently scum for pushing you.
okay bbt.

[Vilewhirl]

"i dont give a shit but i think i wont replace instead of just awkwardly playing up my disinterest in the off chance that people wont try to lynch me"

[Vilewhirl]

"i have acknowledged your questions vile, but i mean i just dont want to put any effort into this game because wow like its so garb right? just reading your questions would surely make me faint"

[Vilewhirl]

im just going to keep making sarcastic quotes like this until people realize that bbt is playing up bullshit and hammer him.
i honestly dont see any reason to keep this day going.

[Vilewhirl]

but soren me pushing a strawman is too scummy to be scum.
.
.
get it because that reasoning is bad.
but yeah. bbt has been ignoring every opportunity to do anything game-related and has instead just been whining and bitching about the lack of content. probably because he can't find anything to use to pretend to scumhunt.
ive asked him questions multiple times. hes ignored them. he has a wagon. hes ignored specific people on the wagon.
hes clearly trying to avoid direct interactions with people.

[Vilewhirl]

He claimed scum in 60 and was serious about it in 70. I guess he's scum. But no seriously, he claimed scum because of saint's 67. As to why BBT actually claimed scum? I don't know so I'm going to have to ask him. Hey BBT why in the world did you claim scum?

Other than that my read on him is mostly null. He catches up with the game and comments here and there, which mostly leads me to a null read.

His 285 puts the blame on everyone else. It seems like a pretty scummy thing to do because its an attempt to throw the spotlight off himself and riles people up emotionally.

this is a bad lynch tho right.
soren's next if bbt flips scum.

[Vilewhirl]

but bbt abr is your buddy.
how could you betray him like that.
also can you blame the guy for being absent? this game has like no content in it like holy shit i just cant believe anyone could be here and be playing in a game so devoid of literally anything.

do you realize how bullshit it sounds that youre just continually whining and whining instead of actually trying to make content? you continually keep ignoring reach-outs to you. why?
you literally have a wagon on you.
how can you not analyze the votes on it?
how is that not content?
like, youre acting so hard like scum whos pissed that theyre caught for reasons they dont like/that they think are bullshit.
youre not going to shake this wagon by being pissy.
start playing the game or someone put this guy to L-1 so he can claim and we can get somewhere.

[Vilewhirl]

Vilewhirl: You are a player who pulls at my heartstrings. If I wasn't married and with a kid I would love you.

i suck at taking compliments but thank you.
hopefully youre not buddying me.

[Vilewhirl]

maybe you should save talk like this for the scumPT?

[Vilewhirl]

but bbt im scum why is my read off remember the wagon on you is scumdriven you cant say stuff like that if you want to be consistent.

[Vilewhirl]

your wagon is scumdriven and im on it.

you can vaguely toss suspicion at everyone on it including me without actually have to commit to any actual reads, right?
thats how that works, right?

[Vilewhirl]

People should look at ease and speed of my wagon, followed by shit reasoning to conclude that there is probably more than one scum already voting me.

wow im misrepping you so hard.
more than two scum in a game with three scum is so not scum driven.
stop embarrassing yourself.

[Vilewhirl]

oh so we're getting close to an actual stance?
are you saying the first few voters on your wagon aren't scum?
that would be like me and farside right? is that an official stance? can i write that down?
or are you just hypothetically saying that you might not be scumreading someone on your wagon?
oh man this is fun.
i sure am glad you arent lynched yet.

[Vilewhirl]

oh so hypothetically out of the three other people who you don't know are voting you, there's probably two scum in there.
thanks for the input bbt. glad youre providing all of the content to fix all of this contentless game.
brb drowning my sorrows in alcohol.

[Vilewhirl]

but farside, who you're currently voting for, isn't scum driving your wagon?
this guy is fucking scum.
kill him.
please.

[Vilewhirl]

i feel like im too annoyed with how much of a shit youre being right now to take this game seriously.
thanks for that.

[Vilewhirl]

you have the time to be here and whine, bitch and moan/complain about lurkers and your wagon.
you could be spending that time actually reading the votes on your wagon, taking a stance on the people voting you and pushing a case on someone based on that.
or asking questions.
or responding to my questions.
youre being a shit. and youre probably scum/i hope youre scum.

[Vilewhirl]

zzzzzzzz.
i need to confer with bulge.
be back hopefully in a long time.

[Vilewhirl]

i just want vilewhirl to come and cradle me and tell me everything is going to be ok

there is no god.

[Vilewhirl]

i dont know why everyone shit their pants all of a sudden at the thought of a bbt lynch. i dont think hes done anything particularly town. will probably look into it when i have more time [because the flipiflopiness there feels unnatural and i dont know why].
for now,
VOTE: soren
the ultimate alternative.

[Vilewhirl]

if you think hes scum why do you care how much effort hes putting into the game?
that doesnt make sense.

[Vilewhirl]

i dont know if youve heard of me guys.
but im like a big deal and stuff.

[Vilewhirl]

Bulgington come vote saint with me. My wagon has spinners.

you arent town enough and saint isnt scum enough for me to sheep you sorry.
post a for real case and then we can talk.

[Vilewhirl]

how sure are you that saint isnt just ridiculously awkward and bad at scumhunting as town?
because im not sure.

[Vilewhirl]

Argument by assertion for his own towniness, ad hom discredit on me. Typical fallacious rhetorical scumgarbage. But this one goes a layer deeper. By calling me an idiot for thinking he's scum, he's assuming that I'm town. He's admitting to having definite information about my alignment

i think this is a good point for saint being scum.
i might vote here if my heart is behind it once my head is back into this game.
</3

[Vilewhirl]

i really miss bulge.
whatever happened to that guy.

[Vilewhirl]

gross.

!!!!!!!
damn.

[Vilewhirl]

why arent you voting him then?

[Vilewhirl]

im being lazy and following mutual gutread that both bulgey and i had until i get the dramatic urge to want to care in this game again.

[Vilewhirl]

Anti, what makes Saint a better lynch than, say, BBT or Soren?

[Vilewhirl]

what are you talking about here?

was making fun of saint.
because hes a silly person who thinks people care about how many years hes been playing mafia.

[Vilewhirl]

hey.
saint.
if you insult someone one more time, im gonna policy vote you out.
because im sick of your trashy attitude in this game.
seriously.
get out of here with your elitist crap. youre complaining about people not doing anything? well your attitude is making me want to post less in this game.
consider that for just a second and then think twice before being a shit like you are right now.

[Vilewhirl]

choooo
choooo
VOTE: saint
die die die.

[Vilewhirl]

i am now running with fake-confidence on the fact that saint keeps referring to people who hes scumreading as though he knows theyre town.
hes scum guys wooo lets lynch him solely on that merit and definitely not because he makes me want to not play mafia right now.

[Vilewhirl]

soren, bbt probscum.
saint leanscum.
shinobi nullscum.

rest is like a weird blobby mess. i dont really have any good townreads right now which makes me sad.
i want to say people like farside are town, but she probably has a good scumgame so im left feeling muddled and null.
anti isnt quite active enough, but i guess hes a townlean?

pedit: i would be playing better right now if i wasnt being distracted by a really special person.

ppedit: can we lynch bbt tomorrow so i can have even less toxic people in the game?

[Vilewhirl]

how well i do is proportional to how much of a shit i give.
when everyone is just a huge asshole for no reason it makes me want to not play and my reads suffer.

im just gonna not read this thread for another three days and hope that everyone stops being fucking terrible when i get back.

p-edit: because you are.
call me terrible again.
i'll read it in three days.

[Vilewhirl]

Whoa

Where did that Saint/BBT interaction come from

[Vilewhirl]

I really don't like that at all

[Vilewhirl]

Sorry I haven't been posting btw. Lots of stress irl. I've been reading and posting thought in the hydra PT but haven't posted before today.

Anyway, basically what I said in the PT is that a Saint lynch is the best option right now. Regardless of alignment, we get rid of a toxic, rude, egocentric player. If he's town, we get an easy wagon analysis tomorrow after scum pushes the easy mislynch. If he's scum, we lynched scum Day 1. Win/win.

PEDIT - Soren, gork posted them like a few minutes ago.

[Vilewhirl]

How is calling me rude, toxic, and egocentric helpful?

Woops, didn't think you would see that

im ignoring vilewhirl the rest of the game.

[Vilewhirl]

*burp*

[Vilewhirl]

i reread some things in a lazy way and now i have perspective on life and things.
not really as sure as i was before on bbt's entry being scummy. i should just always read things through isos.

I think there is a good chance that Shinobi & Hiplop are both scum (but that's based on associatives so it can wait until after Hiplop flips scum)

im gonna try and play nice.
try and play nice with me too.
<3
can you tell me where youre seeing this connection?

He has 13 posts.

Your turn.

given that there are only 3 scum in the game, shouldnt the burden of proof be on you to prove why someone is being scummy vs not?
what do you make of hiplops catchup post? still scummy or no?
also is postcount really super relevant when it comes to alignment?

heres a sorencase:
i) his read on bbt goes from 'huh this guy is pretty scummy' to 'omg bbt is being wagoned by scum and is town' in a manner that just doesnt come across as being genuine.
ii) most of his questions and thoughts in his iso just dont go anywhere. he asks someone a question. they answer. you see nothing from him in terms of followup or a change in opinion. just seems like the questions are just there to make it seem like hes doing something and cares when he actually isnt doing anything with those questions or thoughts. comes across as fake.
iii)

ok this is some good shit

"ok i like saintcase but like not gonna vote it because dont wanna be actually on the wagon yoh"
iv) has been sitting on an antihero vote with old as hek reasoning for a super long time in his iso.
says this while still sitting on a vote on anti:

i scum read anti for lurking earlier in the game

Dragonspawn is scum

Discuss

still not changing votes. zzzz.

v)

That's very odd that you would say that you're not playing anything.

Surely you are doing something

this entire engage with dragon is just weird. first you say that dragon is playing at something, implying he has ulterior motives in the game. then when he says hes playing at nothing you say that hes scummy for not playing at something? how does that work exactly?

vi)

I just think your actions has been pretty town. And I just don't want to be fooled again if you are mafia.

I was in a newbie game that just ended recently. The two universal and mutual town reads that everyone had, turned out to be the scum team. That is the worst defeat.

this comes across as scum trying to overjustify a scumread. like "oh man this is why i am scumreading you, okay? its a definitely legit scumread trust me"

VOTE: soren
*drops mic*

[Vilewhirl]

did hiplop start gaining a wagon?
whats the highest number of votes hes been at?

[Vilewhirl]

okay fair enough.
still begs the question of what do you actually think of the guy's posts when he actually has been here?
im pretty sure the only point ive seen for him being scum is that he hasnt said much.
which shouldnt be particularly surprising given that hes been VLA.
why hiplop over abr?

[Vilewhirl]

that wasnt really the point but i guess i know where youre coming from now.
do you have any thoughts on soren?

[Vilewhirl]

glad that nobody cares about soren's weirdass flip on bbt.
glad that anti is just coming in and sweepingly calling reasons for soren being scum bad without actually engaging it at all.
weeeeeeee.

[Vilewhirl]

i will respond. im just being more immediately pissed with anti's crappy re-entry.
i feel like you ignored my points there in favor of your own analysis but i guess that doesnt really bother me that much.
i skimmed it before and found the points for sorentown to be meh and it felt like you missed some things that stood out to me.
thats also just based on my skim from before.

[Vilewhirl]

I quite like 436; I see no motivation for scum!Soren to go against the grain and question one of the people pushing the leading wagon.

i think this is my biggest issue with your stance on soren.
why does townsoren completely 100% flip his read on you based on you being too scummy to be scum? how do you reach a certain threshold and then become excusable and even hard-defendable?
it doesnt make any sense to me and it honestly really baffles me that youd be okay with him defending you after calling you scummy like two posts before in his iso.
theres also the issue of absolutely no consistency to those lines of thought and questioning.
it just feels like theres an agenda behind what hes doing. at one moment it feels like hes trying to seem town by asking questions and making comments, but then the next hes doing something that feels almost too meaningful in a way i dont think is genuine.
i dont really want to like trace individual trains of thought, but i can if you really dont get what im saying here.

[Vilewhirl]

oh joy, are we playing douchespeak bingo now?

*burps*
if youre town you owe me a good game after the lurkfest that you gave in 182.
do me a favor and actually give a shit.
or dont and look forward to the inevitable dumblynch that comes your way.
hopefully ill be dead by that point.

However, I think it's more play-style indicative than alignment indicative. His play-style seems very scattered, like he changes his mind a lot as he reads/rereads posts. That's the feeling I get from him.

i could buy this.
but id like a second-hand opinion from someone who's played with soren before if someone has.
id rather not have to metadive.

[Vilewhirl]

shinobi why do you never vote people?
i dont even know who youre supposed to be scumreading.

[Vilewhirl]

only two days left.
need to consolidate.
really wish someone with meta experience with soren had engaged me.
especially since it seems like he buggered off [though it seems like a lot of people have been buggering off so..]

[Vilewhirl]

cant tell if sthar is stubbornperson with being too overly focused.
cant tell if shinobi is stubbornperson with being too uncommitted to a vote/push.
hiplop is just quiet. i would lynch abr over hiplop if we were going to do a lurker lynch. because at least his constant apologetic tone when he is here seems out of character.

p-edit: well. ok.
i want a push soon tho because lamelynches suck and they easily happen on people who don't let themselves get read.

[Vilewhirl]

Vile, you interested in a Shinobi lynch?

im not sure.
from my vast top secret meta experience with shinobi i know he can be quite uncommitted as town.
which makes him hard to read.

[Vilewhirl]

shinobi stop defending yourself and go read and make a case on someone or join a wagon on someone.

[Vilewhirl]

VOTE: abr

[Vilewhirl]

calling bbt's lack of case on you bad is questioning him?

[Vilewhirl]

well thats just a friggin bummer.

[Vilewhirl]

Okay but does he only post when called out?

couldnt tell you for sure without revisiting things and comparing to here.
just essentially warning you that if he seems a little aloof, it isnt necessarily 100% because hes scum.

[Vilewhirl]

is there any good reason abr isnt best wagon atm?
like.
does anyone actually think hes town?

[Vilewhirl]

also, if bookitty is the only person with experience on soren, wasn't she saying that he's been looking scummy so far?
bleh.
im full of indecision.

[Vilewhirl]

just remembered that mac is in this game.
he should either do things again or replace out.

[Vilewhirl]

oh.
okay.
UNVOTE:
.
.
.
VOTE: abr
oh man i trikd you.

[Vilewhirl]

farside, talk at me about shinobi vs abr in terms of the whole only responding when pressure is on them thing.
do you think abr is equally scummy for it or not?

[Vilewhirl]

riveting.
is your vote on saint because you're implying a scumread on him?
or are you literally the equivalent of like an AI mafia player atm?

[Vilewhirl]

VOTE: soren
what do you make of bbt's thoughts on soren here?:

I understand what you're saying and when I was reading his ISO I was thinking along those lines a lot. However, I think it's more play-style indicative than alignment indicative. His play-style seems very scattered, like he changes his mind a lot as he reads/rereads posts. That's the feeling I get from him.

'Too scummy to be scum' is complete BS though and that needs to be dropped. He uses 'too scummy to be scum' to town read at least 3 people from memory; I guess it's just his 'thing' but yeah, I don't like it.

Again though, what is his scum motivation to put his neck on the line and defend me when I was coming under heavy fire? I feel like he could have just left it to go on and paid no attention to it or he could have joined in.

do they hold any weight for you given your experience with soren in the past?

[Vilewhirl]

based on what exactly?
an rng roll?

[Vilewhirl]

i disagree with this ... defending yourself is generally something town will do

defending yourself isnt scumhunting though.
i wasnt even calling him scummy for this.

where's the reasoning behind this? im so not used to mafiascum's lack of reasoning... i mean i'm okay with it but geez

hiplop is just quiet. i would lynch abr over hiplop if we were going to do a lurker lynch. because at least his constant apologetic tone when he is here seems out of character.

this will make my list change from Vilewhirl being a townlean to Vilewhirl being a scumlean because that Gorkington post doesn't sit well with me at all

what post?

I also didn't like VIlewhirl and Soren's interaction early on in the day (in the RVS)
I thought it made Soren look bad, but if Soren = town, I feel like 1 of them is scum, so if Soren = Town Vilewhirl = Mafia (in my eyes)

me doing typical rvs bullshit and pushing the game forward at the start is scummy?
well.
thats just dumb.

no, he's town

bad vote. are you following up on your policy despite the fact saint didn't call anyone else a bad word?

he said he was going to ignore me for the rest of the game.
yeah it wasnt an insult.
it was about as annoying as an insult though.

this makes literally no sense. you are offering to policy lynch saint and then claim we'll get easy wagon analysis tomorrow. how can we get wagon analysis off a policy lynch?

:badposting: i take back my townread on vilewhirl big time.

cant really definitively answer on behalf of bulge, but im pretty sure he was implying that if a saint wagon were to take off it wouldnt be framed as a policy lynch by most of the people voting him, thus there would be more than just 'policy wagon'-stuff to analyze. this is pretty apparent based on the rest of the votes on the wagon up until the point where bulge and i were just feeling fed up of toxic shit in this game.
i also want to note that its also kind of hilarious that youre implying that "a saintwagon for these reasons would be impossible to get a read on anybody with!" while simultaneously claiming that your read on us is changing based on our vote on a saintwagon for those reasons.
how does that even work?

[Vilewhirl]

Tell me how I'm wrong. Spoiler: I'm not.

youre not necessarily wrong.
youre also not analyzing very much else other than saint.
and youre calling his latest posts bad without going into detail.
say whats bad about them.
argue with the people calling them good.
etc.
engaging the gamestate is more important than posturing about how right you are because atm the only point on saint that youve made that ive wanted to sheep you on is him talking at people as though he knows that theyre town.
speaking of which:

bad vote. are you following up on your policy despite the fact saint didn't call anyone else a bad word?

i did kind of think saint might be scum because sthar's point i just mentioned resonated with me.

[Vilewhirl]

my mind is getting messy again because pushes on me are annoying.
i might need to reread to recenter again.

p-edit: ive seen worse.
if youre so upset about a long d1 i dont know why youre voting farside.

[Vilewhirl]

i honestly dont know, farside.

p-edit: i dont memorize your schedule.
dont know why you would expect me to. you could always say "these posts are bad and i will explain later" and then i wont be like "y u no explain" because i forget you work or whatever.

[Vilewhirl]

yeah i know.
im just trying to take in too much information at once and its muddddddddddling everything.
im also trying really hard to scale back omgusy feels towards saint and mac because i know thats a weak spot for me.

who is he buddying in these posts? because if its supposed to be me, i asked him a question and he answered.

I think there is a good chance that Shinobi & Hiplop are both scum (but that's based on associatives so it can wait until after Hiplop flips scum)

Vile, it's mainly Shinobi jumping off the Hiplop wagon.

Like, he left his vote there for a long time and appeared disinterested in the game. Yet, as soon as Hiplop starts gaining a wagon Shinobi appears to be paying enough attention to jump off the wagon. It just didn't feel right; I feel like Shinobi is reading along and is fully aware with what's going on but not letting anybody else know this.

i think bbt's reads have been scattergun as heck.
and his overall tone just screams "i actually dont care at all right now", but im just not sure its not him just hating this d1 or something as town. i dont feel like i can parse that well enough.
the other posts you linked look like they could be buddying, but im not getting like a particularly strong feeling that theyre meant to be.
why does bbt buddy anti just for posting a reads list? why isnt it just him backing off of someone once they start looking less mislynchable? i feel like thats more plausible scum-motivation there. especially since anti isnt really even active enough to be a threat right now. but even then it could also just be him as town finding anti looks alright once he starts saying things.
iuno.
i just dont see it and i havent been getting bad vibes off of bbt as hes posting recently.
i might need to re-isodive him and confirm but like.
i dont think i have the energy or the focus to do that right now.

[Vilewhirl]

i will make a real post tonight.
i just wanted to say boo is town.
you guys are dumb.
and yes i am WKing. lynch me instead.
because i want to escape this game.

[Vilewhirl]

oo.
lets say shinobi is town too. unfortunately i cant elaborate and its for selfish alt-related reasons.
fun-times.

there are like five people i would vote in a heartbeat if it meant not lynching boo atm.
abr's pretty close to the top atm.

[Vilewhirl]

like, i think boo's coming across as pretty genuine.
bbts push is based on semantics and is ignoring that overfocus on a person can cause frustration and an unwillingness to respond to things, even from town.

i have yet to see a single town thing come out of abrs mouth in his what like 15 posts that hes made while here?
why would anyone object to lynching him?

p-edit: my read on mac is complicated because i disliked the crap he said about me in his last post and im not sure if im disliking him solely on that merit which is making me feel confused about a read on him.
i would definitely vote him over boo though.

i need to actually do things today so i cant respond to the scarecrow accusations that soren is throwing at me atm.
i care more about pushing the game in the right direction while i am here and boo feels like the wrong direction.

[Vilewhirl]

like, okay fine, bbt is going to yell at me, but im just saying that i dont think logic makes someone inherently scummy.
boo doesnt feel scummy to me.
thats why i dont want to vote her.

[Vilewhirl]

@boo, no im saying im townreading shinobi now.

[Vilewhirl]

accusing me of being a scarecrow full of straw.

[Vilewhirl]

pitch me mac being scum.
i'll consider it after i collect materials for making nachos.

[Vilewhirl]

if boo flips town.
then at endgame the people who gave me shit can just give me a medal or something and apologize.
lynch me asap in the meantime. pls.

[Vilewhirl]

i feel like vilewhirl is nearing chainsaw defense levels on bookitty

yeah. boo's getting run up. im going to vaguely be super vocal about defending her while not hardpushing another case or making a case defend her.
us being scumbuddies makes the most sense over me wking her.
excuse me while i sneeze at your bullshit right now.
.
.
.
ok im done.
so can i expect you to call me a WK tomorrow if [when she probably does] flip town?
if youre town do i get an apology for you being bad post-game?

[Vilewhirl]

why does scumBookitty try to convince me that i shouldnt be trying to push abr right now?

why in the world is abr your top townread?
thats insane.
i dont have words.

[Vilewhirl]

can we seriously please lynch me instead?
because theres literally no way that whatever portion of this group is town is going to win this game and i dont want to get invested and watch it all crash and burn.

[Vilewhirl]

People who have votes that are achieving nothing should change them so that they are achieving something.

VOTE: mac
happy birthday.
my garbage omgusy townread-protecting macvote is all your's!

p-edit: first question is a general question anyone hardpushing boo can answer.
saint's top townread is abr. so thats at him.

[Vilewhirl]

Bookitty (L-2): BlueBloodedToffee, farside22, hiplop, Albert B. Rampage, Saint,

lol.
if boo flips scum i will literally sheep anything that happens the rest of this game. including a lynch on myself.
but, and this is a big but.
just look.
LOOK at that wagon composition.
theres no way this is an all town wagon and theres literally no reason to be bussing in a town this dysfunctional.

[Vilewhirl]

idfk.

i took too long to make an actually viable point because im dumb.

the only player im remotely confident on being scum right now is soren and thats apparently not happening so
idk.

[Vilewhirl]

best thing i can think of alternatively that im actually kind of into is a sthar lynch.
guy feels like hes intentionally hiding behind a tunnel to avoid talking about literally anything else.
i dont know if 11 hours is enough time to be making a full CW from scratch though.

i might just have to settle for isodiving mac and seeing if theres actually a case worth pushing there.

[Vilewhirl]

bbt what point am i convincing you on?

[Vilewhirl]

and who on there are you scared of specifically?

[Vilewhirl]

careful mac.
youre chainsaw defending now.
because thats what that term means.
-.-

[Vilewhirl]

like, if my wagon-instincts are right, theres at most two on boo, but there doesnt have to be because theres no scary counterwagon to motivate scum to do so.
so.
theres more likely more scum off the wagon than on it atm imo.

i know im town.
that leaves: anti, soren, sthar, dragon, mac and shinobi.
i like shinobi atm.
sorens apparently off the table.
so, i think theres a good chance of there being scum in anti, sthar, dragon and mac,
and in the off-chance im wrong about soren, then the odds are even better.

p-edit: i) shinobi is sporadic with the content as town and i think hes town for other reasons atm.
ii) chainsaw defending is pushing that there are scum on a scumbuddy's wagon and then trying to get them lynched.
iii) im not being serious when i say youre chainsaw defending.

[Vilewhirl]

why is anti defending you not scum WKing you for townpoints?

[Vilewhirl]

pitch me it.

abr's iso is full of shit to be honest

i mean yeah.
counterargument is that apparently this isnt super unlikely to be his towngame too.
which is why this playerlist is awesomeeeeeeeee.

[Vilewhirl]

heh.
i was more asking you to try and explain it to me but okay..

[Vilewhirl]

isodiving four peoplies.
youre right that anti

flipping

his read comes across as being more likely to be town.
if hed just come in and been like 'lolguysstop' id be more wary of him, but i kind of forgot that he was also being like 'die bbt die sucka' for a while.
he can be notscum for now.

[Vilewhirl]

Its scummy to find things suspicious now?

I guess we should all be lynched.

ew.

i dont see any kind of trackable position on bbt between his vote on him and his change of vote to saint.
wasnt really much of an attempt to sort bbt either. midISOedit: he does clarify that bbt is still his second-strongest scumread. but he hasnt really done anything with it or tried to analyze anything else bbt has done. could be because bbt's start was slow and there wasnt much to analyze.
im just gonna skim over the saint engage because that shit makes my head/heart hurt.

his reads have been pretty static all game.
which i think im guttily saying is scummy.

oh gross gross gross.
boo is a hard townread for dragon but the extent of him defending her is just saying "oh i will vote for this person now".
yanah.
you can move into my scumpile.

[Vilewhirl]

im really annoyed reading sthar's iso because i cant tell if hes legitimately busy and thats why hes done shit-all other than try to get saint lynched.
i literally dont have any other thoughts than that.
if hes actually stupidly busy then w.e.
if he isnt and hes choosing not to post here then hes scum.
theres no useful way to prove that before D2 though.

[Vilewhirl]

mac looks fine in the super dumbly quick skim i did of his iso.
im gonna read him again when i have attention span.

VOTE: dragonspawn
kill kill kill.

[Vilewhirl]

because there are too many scummy people on the wagon, but there is probably only one scum on the wagon.
if you catch my drift.

[Vilewhirl]

why have you not tried to defend boo at all or make a serious effort to make a counterwagon?

[Vilewhirl]

dragon whats your read on farside?

[Vilewhirl]

why have you been doing so with literally no urgency whatsoever?

[Vilewhirl]

you realize how absolutely awful it looks to me that
a) youre only NOW defending boo.
b) youre only NOW being active the exact moment that this pressure springs up?
why didnt you feel remotely engaged by people wagoning one of your strongest townreads?

[Vilewhirl]

b) youre only NOW being

active[/b]

engaged

the exact moment that this pressure springs up?

maybe this is more fair.

[Vilewhirl]

if the last few pages arent me imparting some wisdom then i dont know what i can do.
i can give inspirational quotes?

[Vilewhirl]

besides which boo handled herself quite nicely. Otherwise she would still be the push.

are you kidding me?

[Vilewhirl]

who are the three people you think are scum shinobi?
like.
we have seven hours.
if we dither anymore we're basically accepting a Bookitty lynch.

[Vilewhirl]

There's 0 chance I present a scumteam of 3 on day 1. Game is hard enough as is.

im not asking you to give the scumteam.
im asking you to give three people who you think are most likely to be scum right at this very second.

[Vilewhirl]

if you actually care about getting boo lynched then you should be doing more than that.
tell me why im wrong on the wagon point.
do you think all of the people voting for boo are town?
if not, why would they bus when it would be so easy not to?

[Vilewhirl]

and why does scumboo tell me to lynch abr?
is it because abr is her scummate or what?
because otherwise shes eliminating options for a potential counterwagon where she doesnt need to.

[Vilewhirl]

tell me not to lynch abr*

[Vilewhirl]

Whirl what do you think of bbts shift in positions and the way he is acting trying to claim he isn't pushing me?

i dont know.
bbt is firmly sitting in my "oh my god what the fuck" pile atm.

[Vilewhirl]

im here now.
why dont you like dragon for scum, far?

[Vilewhirl]

im actually pretty into the idea of farside/dragon scummates.
have seen a few things which would point to it.
dragon should claim.

[Vilewhirl]

what are you asking me far?

[Vilewhirl]

i dont really want to vote boo.
:/

[Vilewhirl]

i hate that its the right move because i really dont think shes gonna flip scum.

[Vilewhirl]

lets lynch the shits who didnt show up.
all of them.
quadruple lynch.

[Vilewhirl]

*deflates-self*
VOTE: bookitty

[Vilewhirl]

sthar.
you
monster.

[Vilewhirl]

im gonna chew you up and spit you out d2.

[Vilewhirl]

bark bark bark.
>:(

[Vilewhirl]

boo.
any chance youre messing with us and are actually scum?
like.
any chance at all?

[Vilewhirl]

i wish jingle would lock the thread.
its getting so large for no reason now.
only thing that really matters is if boo has anything to say.

[Vilewhirl]

im betting we can find some hipster scum that werent on the boo wagon and defended her

im remembering someone who did just that let me find it...

oh wait it was vilewhirl

please sheep this.
im hoping saint is town.
because it will make me feel selfrighteous as fuck.

[Vilewhirl]

im not sure i understand the question?

[Vilewhirl]

weird question?
uh.
abr or sthar? i guess?
im still not really sure if i understand the question.

[Vilewhirl]

eh.
eh.
if youre saying what i think youre saying.
i dont understand the bbt vote.
im too anxious tonight to deal with things. :/

[Vilewhirl]

nope.
i dont get what youre saying.
and i dont like go-fish.
im just gonna like.
not read this tonight.
for my own sanity.

[Vilewhirl]

I protected vile night one.

i cant tell if this is like the most proactive fakeclaim ever.

[Vilewhirl]

why is dragon town, far?
pitch it at me.

[Vilewhirl]

yes.

it really doesnt change that you could be gambiting.
and you shouldnt pretend that it does because like.. that makes me more nervous.

[Vilewhirl]

why?
farside was pretty suspect going into D2.
she might have thought that the best way to avoid getting lynched would be to take ownership of the lack of kill, which could also force whatever it is that stopped the kill to come forward.
youre right that its probably more likely that she would be town for doing that, but like why does doctor farside softclaim unprompted like that at the end of D1?
if shes scum she could be redirecting attention away from partners (which i know like could potentially include me but whatevs) and it makes me nervous.

[Vilewhirl]

ughhhh thats a really good softclaim though.
okay.
if you end up being scum im never going against reads in favour of claimthings again.

okay. so. assuming far is telling the truth, im not sure i fully can get behind the gambit because scum who were active in the thread may have saw it and thought it was like a fakeclaim or scum who were active in the thread may have just not been paying attention.

i was about to say that i believe abr isnt fakeclaiming.
and then i stopped. thought about that.
and then i realized that he might be town and fakeclaiming and then i got really sad.
like really sad.

[Vilewhirl]

i dont see a reason for scumabr to fakeclaim here.
townabr is "lol i dont care about my win condition im gonna do whatever i want and not think about the consequences"

[Vilewhirl]

..
yeah i dont believe abr anymore.
great.
im getting really sad at this game.

[Vilewhirl]

abr.
im being sad at you right now.
and its because you have literally no credibility in mafia anymore.

[Vilewhirl]

whatever.

i'll be upset at literally everything postgame.
im not scumreading bbt so im mostly just being angry at fakeclaim gambit bullshit.

VOTE: dragon

[Vilewhirl]

ok.
so like.
sthar could be scum hiding behind a tunnel.
he could have been purposefully lurking during d1.
but why does he come in to do the hammer knowing that it will look awful as heck?
someone explain that at me.

[Vilewhirl]

do you think he thought he would get townpoints for coming in and nakedly hammering boo when we didnt want to lynch her?

[Vilewhirl]

like "OH MAN I DID IT GUYS LOOK. LOOK AT THIS GREAT TOWNFLIP I GOT US HABY BIRFDAY!"

[Vilewhirl]

wow.
so believe.
much credible.

[Vilewhirl]

but why not just let it no lynch and leave town in the same awkward spot?
that doesnt make much sense to me.

p-edit: sorens probably also a good bet for scum.
at the very least hes certainly not anywhere near the townpile.

pp-edit: abr.
do you really think i didnt notice why your claim is balls?
also, you kind of have a track record for balls fakeclaims, so theres that too.

[Vilewhirl]

btw im not townreading sthar or anything. im just wondering why hes more likely scum than dragon.

[Vilewhirl]

whos the scumteam then?
sthar, dragon and _____?
or saint, dragon and _____?

[Vilewhirl]

why is soren in the townpile bbt?
boo thought he might be scum and she has experience with him.
does her now confirmed town opinion mean anything to you here?

[Vilewhirl]

and what are the two strongest points you have based on your analysis that make soren town?

[Vilewhirl]

he tried to.

[Vilewhirl]

i'd still like reasons for dragon being town.
his claim doesnt confirm him at all to me.
not really that i want to lynch him today to test it but like, i dont see why he had any need to claim there as town and theres literally no reason he couldnt be scum playing with the information advantage.
plus my gut still dislikes him.

anti should replace if he doesnt want to play.

I juuuust posted that. I'll post more after D&D. Long post unless the kiddo needs me.

so.
can we expect something more soon?
or were 4-5 single sentence posts attack saint again and calling out lurkerhiplop for lurking what you had in mind here?

[Vilewhirl]

im torn between saint, sthar and hiplop atm in terms of who i actually want to hang today.
hiplop feels too easy but he might be scum.
sthar is too tunnely for my tastes and im really wondering whether its intentional to avoid talking about almost everything else going on.
and saint's reads look fake.

[Vilewhirl]

i could maybe get behind macscum if someone pitched a case that wasnt "he is too quiet and PoE".

[Vilewhirl]

right.

i almost forgot soren was in this game and only just remembered now that i saw your vote for him.
tell me why he's scum.

or even a readslist would be great.

[Vilewhirl]

1)he's an uncountered believable investigative. his role is testable. That makes it both unlynchable and untenable for scum
2) claiming where he did served only to confirm farside and pseudoconfirm you. There's no reason for scum to want MORE confirmed players

firstly he could have inferred that because of whatever in the hell abr is, there probably wasnt going to be another investigative or something. there could also be another investigative that hasnt claimed yet because 1for1 might not be the best course of action.
secondly, the only person he was 'confirming' is farside and it still leaves room open for a counterclaim later and the obvious benefit as scum is him gaining mountains of towncred.
if hes town he made the wrong call by claiming here. farside wasnt going to get lynched. why draw attention to yourself and ruin your role? that doesnt make any sense to me.

3) The Sentry is my favorite marvel character and the mod and I share a comics collection. If he were faking he probably would have picked someone more recognizable and not evil.

not like fakeclaims are going to be a thing in this game heavily based on known flavour..

[Vilewhirl]

I gotta run for food of some sort but ill be kicking about later to provide some reasoning

you get one more of these posts before i vote you on principle.
make.
a.
good. catchup.
post.
or replace out.
or die.
idc which.

[Vilewhirl]

soren's also disappeared.
just throwing that out there.
for the weirdos who are townreading him.

[Vilewhirl]

So many claims.

Starting with abr. I like his claim and witholding that he is one shot and got more people to claim that they are town or scum. So he's town and I believe his claim which means that BBT is town as well.

Farside's claim is somewhat supported by dragon's tracker claim so I guess I'll believe them too. And given that Farside protected vile, I guess vile could be town if the night kill wasn't prevented by something else.

POE and I'm back to voting anti.

VOTE: antihero

"five people are town..
therefore..
anti is scum!"

gonna have to explain that one.
oh man check it:

Scum team is dragon, Farside and star

"HEY GUYS POE NOW ANTI IS SCUM AND NOT STHAR"
sthar and soren are probably scummates.
boom.
give me a high five i solved 2/3rds of the scumriddle of this game.

VOTE: soren

[Vilewhirl]

im sorry.

im being inactive.

[Vilewhirl]

i started the wagon on bookitty and was a big pusher for the 2 other huge wagons yesterday

this pings me as town.
i dont think scumhiplop draws attention to himself starting a wagon on bookitty.

otherwise i aint got much to work with.
hiplop where yo reads at?

how is anyone townreading soren still btw?
mac feels like a decent vote given he still hasnt done anything while promising that he would on a consistent basis.

[Vilewhirl]

i could also eat an antisandwich.
that guy doesnt even exist anymore.
he should get replaced or die.
its pretty lame how many people fall into this category.

also, i feel like wagon analysis is going to be tilted atm because i used it to clear boo D1. scum is going to be self-aware about that kind of stuff and play around it imo.

[Vilewhirl]

and why did your scumread on sthar change?

[Vilewhirl]

and what is the reasoning for the non-POE-ed players not being scum?