Shaman Mafia [Endgame]

[AngryPidgeon]

Of course toog was town. I was prevented from doing anything during twilight, probably courtesy of UA

[AngryPidgeon]

I went to Middle World w/ Toog and Egg

Dead Staeg and camnsuki were there too

Shit went down

Well? Are you going to talk about it? Cause you've kinda been hovering around the thread and not really doing much which makes me edgy as hell about you. All game.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm thinking Ushiro/hito actually

This thought occurred to me at some point recently. Hito's post where he reconsidered me and voted Staeg didn't feel entirely right.

[AngryPidgeon]

Brian and Ushiro both have claimed there is a "journey blocker", is that you AP?

I received an 'item' for lack of a better term last night which I can use to prevent someone from acting during twilight. Whoever it is used on gets to use it the next night. So someone used it on me. I'm not a blocker of any sort, I'm a VT as far as I can tell. Assuming there actually are VTs in this setup.

[AngryPidgeon]

While I think the second ritual failed because scum found their way on, it's still likely we failed the first ritual because we had a fox on the drumset.

You aren't going to take this opportunity to throw doubt on Copper?

[AngryPidgeon]

How do people feel about massclaim?

Also AP any thoughts on what happened in Middle World since you were so curious?

I'm ambivalent about massclaim. normally I'd be all for it in a game at this point, but I don't think this setup is going to make much more sense with claims.

I'm highly confused about what is claimed in the QT. My first instinct is "the mod is just trolling" but I really have no idea what is going on after reading the story. Someone impersonating Egg is odd if they don't know where he went, but I guess that is ultimately pointless. As long as we don't know who is pulling the strings there, the potential answers are wide.

Middle: toog, Spiffeh, (guest appearances by fake camntsuki and egg?)
Didn't Journey: Egg
Blocked: AP (tried to go up), Brian

so Hito, UA, Copper, TTH were ??? Not middle I guess.

You guys know there is a little star next to your name in QT if you are logged in, right? So you can kind of tell if someone is real or not based on their account. But thats probably not the best discussion topic atm.

[AngryPidgeon]

All That I Know-Sky: UshiromiyaAnge (2/2),
All That I Think-Air: Brian Skies (2/2)
All That I Do-Fire: copper223 (2/2)
All That I Feel-Water: AngryPidgeon (2/2)
All That I Am-Earth: Spiffeh (2/2)

I'm pretty sad we didn't get Toog on here.

Toog was pushing me, Brian, and Copper being town. Doesn't mean we all are, and I think there probably is scum on this list. Not on: TTH, Hito, Egg.

--

I've still got a lot of conflicting thoughts.

The Brian/copper interactions make me a little nervous. I don't quite understand what happened yesterday but I guess it really doesn't make sense for them to do that as both scum. Toog's death points to these being town as well although I'm still paranoid about it.

Spiffeh is probably telling the truth about the QT and I'm guessing its either random mod trolling or scum have a role that can influence QT behavior or something indirectly. Knowing Fate, it could be most anything.

I maybe should be concerned that both Brian and egg are alive when they've been sort of softclaiming a bunch. Not really too interesting though.

Spiffeh and TTH.. put it past her to be able to fake some of this emotion.

p-edit @Egg: No, I can use it next night. It was used on me last night.

Right now I'm kind of looking at the hito/tth/spiffeh group. Hito and TTH were both off the last ritual though, so they seem unlikely to be a team here.

[AngryPidgeon]

I dunno, I think the best case I can make in my head is here:

VOTE: Spiffeh

[AngryPidgeon]

And her absence doesn't make me too comfortable.

I kind of can't help when I'm on. It's a little sporadic, but that's how it has to be, so phooey to you.

I don't really like how she was so "positive" that Yakko would flip town, it looks like an attempt to gain towncred.

Yes, I've cared about getting towncred this whole time. Isn't it evident?

Keeping with that,
VOTE: Staeg

let's keep our focus kids this was TTH essentially claiming scum to cash out the Staeg wagon, especially given that UA was her prime suspect and the L-1 vote.

Vote: TellTaleHeart

(I think this is the L-2 vote)

Is it though?

[AngryPidgeon]

Volunteer West-Water

I'm becoming apathetic about the ritual since I don't know what it accomplishes and we seem prone to failing them anyways.

I wonder if its just a mechanic that allows for soft investigates in the form of 'it passes or it fails'.

Its enough to make one wonder if no lynching is actually an optimal strategy. Not that I'd support no lynching at this point, full steam ahead.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think I'm fine with voting TTH today. My biggest hangup on voting TTH is that she was off both of the rituals and they both failed without her. The first ritual failed because Camntsuki and Egg were on it (supposedly). I guess its not an unreasonable assumption that scum didn't make it onto that ritual even though they likely would have wanted to be on. The second ritual, from my perspective, failed due to scum being on it. UA, Brian, Copper, Spiffeh. This isn't very telling since Hito, TTH, Egg were off. If my assumptions are correct, then lynching On is still a better play but in reality its likely a choose one from Column A and one from Column B scenario. The one concrete takeaway I have is Hito and TTH are not scum together due to both being off the last ritual. That makes me less inclined to vote them right now.

I reread some Brian posts and Brian is town. A voice in my head tells me that he feels a bit different than I'm accustomed to, but some of his posts like 998 are solidly town. I don't believe scum-Brian kills Toogeloo last night, regardless of who his buddy is. I'll be impressed if this ends up being Brian's scum game.

I want to reread some more people in ISO later this week. My personal life has calmed down a bit so I'll make time to do that shortly.

[AngryPidgeon]

That makes me sad but I guess do what you feel like you have to. I still feel like UA is scum, and them fading into the background after Day 1 reinforces that but I don't have any hope of anybody listening to me today.

Bah. I'm going to reread. Its responses like this that make me not want to vote you. I still think a lot of your posts have sounded genuine and that is a large reason why Im voting Spiffeh.

[AngryPidgeon]

Egg still looks town. Minor paranoia about the softing. I've mostly seen town-egg in the past. He did fool me once as a SK for most of a game until I kind of PoE'd him out a little. I was a waffly mess that game. I don't think Egg is scum here though, I think hes calm. I recall his scum behavior looking a bit more guilty. Needing to interact with people, but kind of following rather than probing. I think this is town-egg.

I should have a better grasp on Espeonage. I remember disliking a lot of his content. The bit where he voted for Nacho over Yakko in particular. Copper talked about that at length yesterday and I do sympathize with his point that Espeonage's logical progression does make sense. Its not too hard to see where he was directing his attention in ISO. Voting for Nacho and FoSing Yakko is a pretty bold move to make as scum in that situation, honestly. Maybe I am basing this opinion on a lack of respect for his scumgame, but I don't feel too shameful in doing that.

Brian and Copper are reads that I really want to just commit to. Toogeloo calling them town and dying fits the narrative. I don't see why either of them would go for a wifom play in that scenario when there are other decent kills (egg, hito?). Toog was going to defend them. Toog getting shot also suggests someone thought he was softing PR results or otherwise informed. So. That isn't concrete stuff, I'll admit, but a fair number of Brian and Copper posts look town to me on top of that.

Spiffeh is sort of becoming a PoE suspect due to being on the failing 2nd ritual and mostly coasting through the game. I don't mean that as a dig on him or his playstyle, I mean that I think hes probably just scum here.

[AngryPidgeon]

You think she might be responsible for what went down in the Middle PT?

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, I know you said it's not something you'd actually support but what made you think of the no lynch thing? Like what benefit did you initially think there might be?

I had to think about this for a second since I'd forgotten mentioning that.

The ritual might not actually -do- anything. It might just be a soft investigate in that it tells town if there is mafia on it or not. Obviously there are other convoluting factors so I don't recommend attempting to game this mechanic. Its possible that the ritual is a strong soft-investigate mechanic though and we could have played the game by "following-the-cop" and using the ritual as an investigative thing. The presence of 'animals' makes that tricky though and I dont have definitive proof that this plan would even work.

[AngryPidgeon]

By this logic, lynching off would be better because it's a higher chance to hit scum (33%). Although I don't see any reason to assume one on one of.

I assume that there is [1-2] scum on the ritual and [0-1] off because it failed. That is concrete. I am hazarding a guess that we're looking at a 1-1 scenario rather than a 2-0, but that is based on a feeling I have and nothing more. So I'd prefer to lynch on since I can guarantee scum on there (imo) rather than off, but what you are saying makes sense.

Egg, Brian, and TTH are all town.

My top lynches today are Spiffeh and Hito. I'm still entirely 100% completely and unstoppably baffled by anyone townreading Spiffeh. For "not giving too many fucks" or "crazy line about PT". It makes me wonder if I'm wrong and hes being whiteknighted or some shit, but I don't really think I am. I think people are just underestimating his scum game.

[AngryPidgeon]

I noted that Brian said AP being wishy-washy is sometimes a scumtell for him,

Where did this happen? I have a hard time believe Brian would believe that at all.

This game is kinda dead. Egg looks really town on the last couple pages. Hito's soft might be town, still thinking about it. Still ok with current vote.

P-edit; why do you think they would be more into this as scum?

[AngryPidgeon]

I dunno, AP. Spiff's stuff about the middle world doesn't seem faked

I don't think it was either. I don't doubt that it happened, but I'm not sure drawing any conclusions from something we can't even see is a good idea.

[AngryPidgeon]

But the first things that come to mind when I think of AP are waffled reads and a scumread on me.

<3

[AngryPidgeon]

Spiff and AP, would you rather have a claimed animal on the ritual or scum?

:/

Neither? I'm starting to think the ritual is just a soft investigate mechanic . I'd definitely avoid putting animals on it at this point.

[AngryPidgeon]

one sec

[AngryPidgeon]

If you accept that two scum remain, TTH's role doesn't change it.

8 players- 2 scum = 6 town

If you accept Hito and myself as town,

6 town - 2 power animals = 4 shaman

There are 5 shaman slots on the ritual. 4 isn't enough.

Someone speculated that there may be Mafia Shaman in the game. That actually makes a fair amount of sense to me. Who all is a claimed shaman at this point? I'm losing track and I apologize for that. I know Brian and I are. I think Copper, Spiffeh, and UA are as well? TTH, you and Hito have claimed animals at this point. If you are town and the claims are all accurate then that would make TTH and Hito scum since otherwise its impossible to pass the mission. It is possible that the ritual is 100% guaranteed to fail but we still get to attempt it anyways. It might give motivation for scum to target Shaman rather than Power Animals in order to reach that state.

That is my objective thoughts on this right now. Let me context switch and talk about speculation. You are unquestionably town. Town enough that I'd follow you to mordor and back. You, TTH, and Hito have claimed power animal. If both Hito and TTH are scum, then we have 5 town Shaman and 2 scum fakeclaiming power animal. This is where the theory about Mafia Shaman feels right. If there is one alive then we could still pass the ritual by getting them on it and they could be reluctant to help. That would mean that one of Hito/TTH is lying about being an animal and there is likely someone on the ritual who is scum and lying about being a shaman.

So I am prepared to vote Hito with you and never look back. I actually kind of think its Hito +spiff/UA after typing this all out.

[AngryPidgeon]

TTH is still town.

Its rare that both the emotional extravert half of me and the calculating introvert are in complete agreement but right now they are and TTH is town.

[AngryPidgeon]

Seriously shame on all of you if we lynch TTh today. I could have done a better job of defending her earlier and I'm certainly no paragon of townplay this game.

Brian and Copper get your fucking shit together. You are both pretty clearly town. Toogeloo dying suggests it and both of you are just transparently town anyways.

Spiffeh I still have some reservations about due to his general disconnectedness with the game and his opinions on Staeg/Yakko. My gut is currently leaning towards a Hito/UA team though as much as I don't want to have to be responsible for pushing cases on those two.

Really though as long as we never lynch Egg, TTH, Brian and Copper we win. Of those I have the most paranoia about Copper but really its not there. Its just we win if we make some good fucking lynches today. Good lynches being people outside of that group.

VOTE: Hito

Lets actually lynch Hito instead of letting him troll through the game with all that red oozing out of his posts. Fucks sake guys.

[AngryPidgeon]

And no Im not compromising on TTH for the deadline. I'm raising the bar for townplay right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Would anyone like to confirm me for the ritual?

No. Because scum are on it and its going to fail.

Unless you want to lynch Hito with me, then I'll do it I guess but it still wont matter.

[AngryPidgeon]

That claim is so freaking town that my body can't decide whether to laugh or what right now.

Seriously my bad about Yakko. But TTH is town and that is a fact.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hmmm. Well thats disappointing.

I want my way tomorrow if TTH flips town.

If TTH is scum I'll self-vote my way out of the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

But literally every single aspect of TTH's play has been town. Especially the claim.

[AngryPidgeon]

I thought AP had the peace pipe.

The thing that lets me twilight block someone?

Or if you are referring to my bubbler yes I have that as well just not at work with me.

I haven't read since my last posts but only cause I dont want to be disappointed by the mislynching of TTH that is still going to take place. I saw that there was an extension. Its not too late to lynch someone other than town.

[AngryPidgeon]

I love you too Brian. Im too happy to be anything other than a troll right now.

I'm still right about TTH though.

[AngryPidgeon]

Plz dont make me paranoid. If you are scum I might cry.

[AngryPidgeon]

ooookkk.

I need a divine sign. Also I'm going to be semi-VLA for the next week. Flying to a friend's wedding tomorrow night. I'll still be around though.

I was in the middle world last night. Toog was there and adamant about account security. I think he wanted to lynch TTH, but I'll check later.

p-edit: oh splendid VOTE: Ushira

[AngryPidgeon]

Because I doubt she has a one shot cop if I was given one randomly during the night.

Can you explain in more detail? You have no idea why you got this 1xritual/cop ability but you randomly got it during twilight?

I'll read TTH's claim again in a bit.

[AngryPidgeon]

I believe the Spiffeh results. Im just not convinced this is effectively a CC for TTH. This setup is weird.

[AngryPidgeon]

Sounds like an inventor role.

[AngryPidgeon]

I still think its Hito after UA. I could be wrong, but eh. UA is the correct lynch Today, thinking is for Tomorrow.

[AngryPidgeon]

I did. i was telling you what was going on in the Middle World. with toog. and about hito. and we each picked one of beach, mountain, and forest. are you telling me you had a different qt than me too?

what on earth.

more ua votes plz and thanks.

[AngryPidgeon]

We have plenty of time to lynch UA.

Also, ritual.

Im also pretty ambivalent about being on the ritual. If anyone wants on, then sure. If we are trying to get townies on it then Spiffeh and IDK. I could I guess Im just ambivalent, leaning towards apathy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi and bye.

Vote UA!; make Shamanism great again!

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi and bye.

Vote UA!; make Shamanism great again!

I honestly hope you're scum, because god you're a moron if you're town.

yeah mb, sheeping a cop guilty when in the phase before mylo is such a bad play.

[AngryPidgeon]

I mean...the worst that happens is spiffeh is scum and fails the ritual? Would be pretty funny stuff. But I'd be fine with not putting him on since we are going to know more about his alignment as a result of this claim.

[AngryPidgeon]

for the record, if I were scum with spiffeh in this game I would have called him a fucking dumbass for proposing a fake guilty at this point.

And the odds of UA getting killed seem pretty fucking low. I would certainly not advocate killing them if I were scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

So how's everyone's day going?

Going to see Deadpool with my guy later tonight! work is taking 5ever to end though.

[AngryPidgeon]

Look at it. "For the record I'd definitely have come up with a better plan!"

Who the fuck tries to justify themselves TO A FUCKING COP GUILTY

uhhh?

Ya, I would not trade 1 for 1 right now as scum. Not when there are TOTALLY mislynchable people in the game. Like TTH.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hey Brian we should go to the same QT tonight. Grab a few drinks.

Any preferences?

[AngryPidgeon]

Lower QT seems to be the batshit insane QT. Middle QT seems to be the 'talk with dead people' QT. Upper QT probably has a goat behind it or something.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, Brian, Spiffeh, does one of you also claim to have a specific role in their tribe?

No.

No? Im vanilla if thats what you mean. And my flavor doesnt indicate anything interesting about elements or whatever

[AngryPidgeon]

Middle world kids, who had verified stars in your QT(s) last night?

Me, Spiffeh, toog, and Fate which is everyone there.

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, you answered no to this one. Did you ever go into more detail as to why you said no that I just missed? If not, could you provide some?

I'm pretty sure my opinion on the ritual has been discussed ad nauseum, but:

I originally had no reason to think I should be on the ritual. My role is about as vanilla as it gets, flavor and all except for the QT thing during twilight. When egg said that the ritual is obvious I assumed that there was something in his role to indicate he is attuned with fire/water or whatever and that my role didn't have it. Now it has come out that Egg was mistaken. I am a plain Shaman and I believe that Id help most rituals succeed since they take "shaman" and not "animals" but also who knows.

[AngryPidgeon]

I used ayahuasca on TTH yesterday, that's a 1-shot NK protection ability so UA's bullet-proof claim makes me slightly uncomfortable, if UA is scum then their most likely partner is Hito.

Cool copper is still town. Im not sure why you'd protect TTH given the circumstances, but to each his own.

It's possible Spiffeh is scum, shot us last night, thought "oh hey, bulletproof=SK" and claimed a guilty on us

And you are calling ME dumb. Ya Im sure scum think there is an SK in a game with an average of < 1 kill / night.

Up until this point, we are the reason why all the rituals have failed. This is because we are the Fool, who acts in a backwards manner. Any ritual we are on automatically fails, no matter what else occurs on it.

In addition, we are bulletproof.

We win with the town, with a caveat. In order to win, we must fail 3 rituals.

uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[AngryPidgeon]

Like did ANYONE ELSE RESEARCH THEIR ROLENAME OR ANYTHING?

No because my rolename isnt a fake claim.

[AngryPidgeon]

Up until this point, we were a survivor.

Ya you sure played like a survivor on Day 1

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, Brian, Spiffeh, does one of you also claim to have a specific role in their tribe?

I am a Qero Medicine Man and my role implies that I may get abilities during the game maybe. Its very light on details.

[AngryPidgeon]

We are a conditional traitor

We are aligned with the mafia

[AngryPidgeon]

NOT ON THE RITUAL: YAKKO, SPIFFEH, ANGRYPIDGEON

That's right you useless fucks, you couldn't even get one of you on the ritual.

Oh boy.

fake p-edit: Wait I thought your narrative was that I was scum in the post I just quoted?

Who gives a shit, you've claimed to be playing to a mafia wincon. Also what you are saying can't be true. If you know who scum are then all you have to do is claim it and then get lynched to win with town. so I guess you are just "speculating" who is scum. But whatever. I dont see how lynching anyone but UA is the proper play right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think scum is in TTH/Egg (been leaning towards Egg recently).

I might be willing to budge on that read. But right now the only things on the agenda are

1) wait for TTH to claim a result or something
2) lynch claimed scum

[AngryPidgeon]

AP, you get Water. Please volunteer.

I'm only doing this because I love you.

volunteer: water

[AngryPidgeon]

Maybe UA really is what they are claiming lol. That still makes them a good lynch, but still this is pretty funny.

[AngryPidgeon]

And yet we'll flip town, AP.

Doesn't it sting you fucked up that badly?

If I were scum I would be downright giddy about all this, especially if I had a buddy still in the game.

[AngryPidgeon]

3 + traitor is a lot of scum considering we haven't had much town power going around. I think a 1-shot doc and 2 1-shot cops have been claimed? Egg has some bullshit for an ability and everything else seems to hinge on the ritual maybe. But the ritual is super hard to pass with such a high concentration of scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

No it's not. My first hydra with my girlfriend, and I wanted to win it, and we get this role and you go and do this to us...

Okay, some humor. But this is me desperately playing to my win condition, such as it is.

The mod in me is moderately intrigued by your claim. I dont know too much about Fate-games though I suspect Fate would be more likely than most people to make a swingy game. This game is batshit enough already. I have a hard time believing that there is 3+ a conditional traitor in the game. Thats basically 4 scum. The traitor -could- try and play protown, but that only increases the odds of them getting 'shot' and punished for being protown. Getting lynched makes them town but still with 3 scum left behind them its an uphill battle. The odds of the role making it to endgame as town are less-than-likely so its really pretty purely anti-town as a role.

It sounds to me like you are both channeling your inner Kuribo and claiming whatever feels fun. Fucking graveyard shift mafia, good times with fake claims and DGB/Kuribo scum hydras. I will say that if UA is being honest, its likely just 1 scum left? I find 2+1 a lot easier to digest but eh. TTH needs to get in here and say anything.

[AngryPidgeon]

my win con is town dude. in case you didn't know.

but really it is no lies.

[AngryPidgeon]

How funny would it be if TTH was shot last night.

[AngryPidgeon]

Actually, if this ritual fails then one of Copper and AP is confirmed scum. And no one should think copper is scum.

Ya, its p obvious that I dont want to be on the ritual for this reason

[AngryPidgeon]

hmmmm

Brian would you like to receive something from me and Copper.

ʘ ͜ʖ ʘ

[AngryPidgeon]

Wait no Brian please DO be benmage

[AngryPidgeon]

Like, LLD is the EXPERT at playing people.

You're a really pale shadow.

pffff I'm no fool.

Im an expert at making town not care. I tend to post a lot of walls and spam when I do that though.

[AngryPidgeon]

Brian, can you clarify your action with the block?

[AngryPidgeon]

If I'm understanding this right, you used an action on Copper last twilight phase which will block him this next night phase like a normal roleblock would?

[AngryPidgeon]

I was getting super jazzed about it, but TTH being redirected seems really bizarre for a scumteam who are coming in to the day ready to make this play.

I don't see why that is particularly weird. You think that having a redirector would make them not do the play at all; they would just redirect and lynch TTH in that case?

[AngryPidgeon]

I was starting to doubt my egg read, but I dont see how Egg can be scum with what has been claimed. The shortest route to that would be that he is scum with UA and TTH but my god.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ok, got it. Well if we are down to one scum by the end of Today, that is pretty great.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm less around than I thought I might be. Been busy with friends wedding and related activities. I'll be back Tuesday for sure. Don't really think I'm needed though. There isn't a good argument to be had for lynching someone other than UA. I mean really.

[AngryPidgeon]

I was in the middle QT again last night. Sorry if we agreed on one to go to, Brian. I just chose middle for no real reason. I barely read it at all. I looked at one point and it was all GI calling me confscum and speculating on who my partner was. TTH said hi in one post and that was about it.

[AngryPidgeon]

The Ritual has Failed.

Well..

Uh.

Fuck this setup I guess?

Alternatively I guess this might mean that copper is scum. Or Brian or something.

[AngryPidgeon]

I'm not sure what to make of Spiffeh in light of the 3rd party flip. UA flipped "ritual disruptor" which sounds only faintly like what they were talking about. Maybe they were telling the truth about winning with the town and being a conditional traitor? IDFK. I could read the QT and see if GI left any actually useful bits in his rant about how scummy I am.

[AngryPidgeon]

@Mod

Did the recipient role on the last ritual have any bearing on the ritual's success or failure?

[AngryPidgeon]

Happy IRL scumday Spiffeh.

If Spiffeh is mafia and knew GI was scum/3p of some sort, I don't see why he'd necessarily double down on the illusion claim. If I were faking a result in that scenario, I'd just say he came back 'not-town' or 'guilty' or w/e. So I kinda think hes not making that part up. He -could- be 100% bulshitting as scum here and just got lucky that he happened to bullshit on a 3rd party, but I don't really think thats extremely likely.

So I dunno. I'm tempted to believe him, but that also doesn't mean hes town.

[AngryPidgeon]

That's a pretty half-assed description of the what happened in the QT, AP.

I was in the middle QT again last night. [...] I barely read it at all.

[AngryPidgeon]

That's a pretty half-assed description of the what happened in the QT, AP. GreyICE made the point that since the ritual failed and it's not likely that Brian caused it to fail, it's very likely one of you and copper is an illusion and he thinks it's a lot more likely to be you. Frankly, I agree.

Ya I saw that GI had 9001 posts in the QT when I first checked in and that he was calling me scum in most/all of them. You made one post the second time I checked in which was nothing. So ya I decided I wasn't going to slog through a QT of GI calling me scum cause that is pointless. You are right that the ritual failing is interesting. But really there are 6 people alive and 3 were on the ritual. I don't know if Brian's "role" in the ritual could cause it to fail and that might be an important question. I'll certainly be paying copper some mind today though.

[AngryPidgeon]

p-edit: you double down on the Illusion claim because you are on the record stating they are illusion, AP.

I mean why claim Illusion in the first place? If he wanted to fake a result on them, all he had to do was say "ya I investigated them and they are guilty". There really isn't much reason to fake details about it that might come back to haunt you.

[AngryPidgeon]

To make the claim more convincing.

-shrug-
Im planning on voting Copper. But I would like to read some if I can. My follow through has been abysmal this game though.

[AngryPidgeon]

inb4 tth/egg team

id be so mad

[AngryPidgeon]

The ritual also does not resolve until after the Twilight phase. So it's possible for UA to sabotage our ritual as a twilight action rather than what they claimed.

But they weren't on the ritual?

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, its possible. That seems unlikely though since they tried so hard to be on all of them. Unless you think they had a 1-shot ability to do it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Ya, its possible. That seems unlikely though since they tried so hard to be on all of them. Unless you think they had a 1-shot ability to do it.

Well they did claim some random stuff about needing town to fail three rituals. A 1-Shot could have been some kind of reward.

This discussion could go on with a million branches of what-if regarding their role. If GI was a 100% indy role, I don't see why he'd try so hard in the QT last night. He said he needs town to win and I kind of believe that. They had failed 3 rituals by yesterday anyhow.

Everything they said is WIFOMy and its evident they aren't town. I want Fate to answer my question, but I suspect that GI didn't fail last ritual then go on to troll us in the QT last night but maybe he did.

[AngryPidgeon]

hmmmmmmm

[AngryPidgeon]

it might be time to dig up some old paranoia based theories of mine

[AngryPidgeon]

but really Im having a hard time thinking about not voting for Copper here and I'm a little weirded out that you are making excuses for the ritual failing. There was a point in time when you were 100% sure copper was scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

TTH what is your take on Brian calling you scum all game.

Cause you are not talking to him right now and that is also a little weird.

[AngryPidgeon]

The ritual failed and the two most likely suspects for that are you and Copper.

I was under the assumption that your part in the ritual had no bearing on the pass/fail, but Fate just confirmed that it does.

[AngryPidgeon]

Also how funny is it that I did all this spec on who was on/off the ritual and this whole time its just been UA failing every single on as a 3rd party.

I'm laughing.

[AngryPidgeon]

I dunno, I thought the structure of the last ritual heavily implied that it would just be me and Copper passing it and that passing the ritual meant you would get something from it, regardless of your alignment. It was a poor assumption and I'm glad I clarified with the mod.

[AngryPidgeon]

Talk to me about TTH's claim. Why do you think it might be a real claim?

I could pitch the same question in reverse. Why is it fake? She claimed a one-shot cop with an innocent on Egg. I like setup spec. I really do. This game is totally stumping me in that department though and I have no delusions about that.

I thought TTH's claim looked town because of how she claimed it, not what she claimed. The only argument I see against her is that Spiffeh is "CCing" her with a one-shot cop of his own that was given to him through some unknown means and has been proven to be at best questionable.

[AngryPidgeon]

Which one was that? I honestly can't even remember who had what role in that game. You guys were a ... role copier? I don't remember how that all shook down.

[AngryPidgeon]

I think we blocked you, delayed Katsuki. Katsuki claimed something and our claim was corroborated by BRO who had results on me because I was a godfather. dude that game was a hot mess and I believed most of what I said there because I KNEW I was right because we blocked a million people every night.

[AngryPidgeon]

hilarious cop role

I gotta say that might be the pinnacle of my scumgame.

You are right I shouldn't ignore what she claimed and I thought about looking back to find it but felt too lazy. I'll hunt in her ISO for it now.

[AngryPidgeon]

I didn't really want to have to claim, but I supposed with the deadline coming up I must.

I'm a town power animal, the Hound. My ability is that I can check the alignment of someone once in the game, but it's dependent on the Upper World-Middle World-Lower World mechanic and it involves making a separate QT thread with my target (which is why I really wasn't fazed by having two QT links sent to me last night). This is part of the reason why I tried to not leave that much of a trace about where I was at night unless I felt it was necessary. In my role PM, my ability is flavored as me looking for a friend or discovering an enemy (paraphrased, of course).

Since I knew I wouldn't get nightkilled, I've been saving my ability for the smallest pool of players possible. I tried to be as transparent about my reads during the day as I could to avoid getting lynched but I guess I overestimated that.

What is shady about these mechanics exactly? It isn't described super well, but it sounds like she gets an additional QT with the target. It would be on Egg to explain what happened on that night since he was investigated. I know Egg mentioned alternate Qts and something about bending QTs to do with his role though? What the hell was that about?

The bit about waiting for fewer people to be around is definitely a little bit shady, but not extremely so.

Why is the DGB bit relevant? There were 4 days between the claim and her last post. Yes that gives her time to make it, but really it is just evidence that she flaked for that timeframe and came back and claim. Its impossible to say whether she spent time concocting it or just claimed on the spot.

[AngryPidgeon]

Kats hard Cc'ed you, died, and no one looked your direction again.

Wait I remember. Katsuki was the delay role. I think we blocked him on that night. He claimed to have delayed me which we knew was impossible because we blocked him and BRO was able to back up our claim anyways.

[AngryPidgeon]

You were like 'why would they lie about that.'

I probably did say that. So you think me saying that about Spiffeh is scummy. Im not ruling out Spiffeh being scum here. Obviously there is something up with his claim but Im really not sure what and UA claimed a million things yesterday so its all kind of a circus from my perspective.

Do you think Spiffeh is scum and faked a guilty on UA and got lucky they were 3rd party? Because if not that the only thing I see is that Spiffeh had reason to think they were 3rd party and decided to just go for a gambit. In that situation it really doesn't make sense to rope yourself into a blatant lie when the whole point of the gambit is to get a 3p lynched and not out yourself in the process.

[AngryPidgeon]

My issue with her is that she claimed she was hoping to wait for a smaller pool of players to use it on, which rubbed me the wrong way as it can easily backfire on her without towncred.

Ya she was up for a lynch and holding onto a 1-shot cop role is something I'd never personally do.

The issue I have with her claim as far as DGB's quote goes is how tiresome it is to get her full claim out. She's continuously avoided explaining her mechanics and she has still failed to do so now.

I'll admit her role is unclear to me. Egg's is too though (didn't he mention something about alternate QTs?).

That was just me referencing what happened with my hard CC that game. Your inability to comprehend why Fox was scummy there is closer to your interaction with TTH's claim here. But it's still not why I referenced that line

Ok....could you explain it to me like I'm five then? Your reasons for not believing TTH make sense to me. I don't necessarily agree, but I completely understand why you think her claim is scummy.

[AngryPidgeon]

Okay, well Spiffeh can still only be scum #3. I will only vote for scum #2.

I missed something. Why could Spiffeh not be a lone scum right now?

disregard.

[AngryPidgeon]

I read the last couple pages. I'm not very enthralled by the discussion about roles. The setup is wacky and the spec is going to be woefully uneducated as a result. I don't see much benefit to talking about spec over pretty much anything else. The only spec I actually care about is the ritual since UA is now out of the game and I strongly doubt they were responsible for sabotaging the last ritual.

It'd be cool if TTH was around to talk and actually tell me why she wants to vote me.

[AngryPidgeon]

To paraphrase our middle world QT from last night,

GI: One of copper/AP has to be scum due to the ritual failing. Clearly, he is assuming that Brian's place on the ritual didn't have a bearing on the pass/fail. I tend to trust him here though and that means he didn't fail the ritual. One of Brian/Copper did.

(he confirmed that assumption about brian one post later)

--

Spiffeh cannot be lone scum due to the block claim.
Egg cannot be lone scum due to the investigate claim.

We lynch from the ritual today, no other way.

[AngryPidgeon]

No one else was redirected which means it was probably made up

Would you like to offer some insight into whether or not you may have been redirected seeing as how UA flipped 3p and NOT illusion?

[AngryPidgeon]

I know I've been a waffly mess this game, but I still think TTH is town. I'm certainly not lynching her today when one of Brian/Copper are scum for failing the ritual. People are free to believe that I could have failed it; I know I didn't. With Spiffeh and Egg having at least pseudo-clears on them, it means we lynch in the ritual. And I don't see why we no lynch when Egg probably dies for having an innocent result on him.

[AngryPidgeon]

So I'll be making my mind up between those two sometime in the next 24 hours and sticking my vote there.

[AngryPidgeon]

Because Brian is claiming a roleblock on him?

That means he can't be solo-scum right now.

[AngryPidgeon]

Which also lends credence to TTH's result being bullshit. Assuming it worked like mine she probably shouldn't have known that she was redirected to Egg in the first place, just the result of the investigation.

It's already been established that it doesn't work like what you are saying. Hers involves QTs and an interaction with her target in some way.

p-edit: as a mod, I tend to let informative roles know they've been redirected. If you are a jk or something I might not say anything, but an investigative role is usually told "Player X is town/scum". So it'd be a little weird if you were redirected silently but its not out of the question. The mod evidently didn't confirm who you targeted either way.

[AngryPidgeon]

Hi!

I can only check in for a few minutes tonight and I haven't read anything, but I targeted UA and was redirected to Egg who I got an innocent result on. I'll be back tomorrow and catch up with the other goings on.

So TTH targets

3rd party

UA, is informed that ??? Egg is town.

Spiffeh targets

3rd party

UA, is informed they are

Mafia

.

This was on Night 3 for both.

[AngryPidgeon]

Unless I missed it?

She and egg both claimed there was some weirdness with her role and they got flavor/QT to go with it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Who do you think is scum with TTH?

[AngryPidgeon]

My POV this Day will always be that one of Brian/Copper has to be scum. GreyICE was either trolling in the QT last night (doubt it) or he had nothing to do with the ritual failure (likely, he was dead) and is genuinely scumreading me in part for that. Now that the stupid 3p ritual failing role is flipped, either scum had an ability to fail the ritual or they were on it.

[AngryPidgeon]

Did your GI have account confirmation?

[AngryPidgeon]

UA could have caused it to fail.

GI indirectly claimed in the PT that he didn't. Also he is dead.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spiffeh claimed something that interferes with the ritual?

Spiffeh?

[AngryPidgeon]

Spoiler:

I received an ability after twilight for the night phase that just ended.

I had the option of copping someone or putting whoever I wanted on the ritual.

I chose to cop UrishomiyaAnge

And they are Illusion!

Fuck I should have waited for TTH to give her results before outing mine

Oh well

I randomly got it when Twilight was over and night was announced

I think you understand it just fine. I'm just curious because I targeted you but it doesn't seem like it did anything. Which could mean I either misunderstood what it could do or I was twilight blocked again (or both).

I was not notified of being targeted by anything

Don't get snippy

The title of the ritual ability is called Feng Shui

It allows me to re-arrange the layout of the ritual the next day, making sure it succeeds

The title of the cop ability is Divination

I have claimed everything

I was notified that I had new abilities.

I could either cop someone or change the layout of the ritual to ensure its success.

I chose to cop you and you came back as Illusion. Red text and all!

Dude, Spiffeh has claimed no interference with the ritual whatsoever. He claimed that he had the -option- to interfere and did not. That isn't a valid point. Either scum messed with the ritual while not being on it (borderline bullshit mechanic) or scum was on it. I can't entirely rule out scum having a role to fail the ritual, but the alternative is more likely.

[AngryPidgeon]

@All
AP's position today really makes me think he is scum with Spiffeh.

Why? Because I'm trying to draw meaning from the ritual failure? The thing I've been doing since the very beginning of Day 2 suddenly makes me scum? Ya you and Brian keep ignoring the failed ritual for GOD KNOWS WHY, citing entirely irrelevant Spiffeh quotes and a DEAD player. You two bozos want to lynch TTH and Spiffeh? Spare me. A couple game days ago you both wouldn't shut up about how scum the other was. Now that you are on a FAILED RITUAL with each other suddenly Spiffeh is scum because TTH and his claims aren't "mutually exclusive as far as I can tell". But you both keep pushing back at me for having perfectly legitimate paranoia about the ritual and some evidence to back up why I should.

There is no hard reason to believe that Spiffeh was even redirected and he isn't claiming that he was. Yet you make broad assumptions about his role not existing with TTH's and that the Mafia team

knew what his role did

? How about considering Egg's claimed nonsense and the fact that roles have made borderline zero sense in this game so far?

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Copper

[AngryPidgeon]

Im not discrediting anyone, I'm voting for narrative peddling scum.

[AngryPidgeon]

irony intended?

Also @spiffeh: a lot of the reason I was suspicious of you this game is cause I happened to see you posting in MidSummer Night's dream before Rob asked me to join it. You seemed to be posting in that game in particular way more than here and it made me suspect you were scum here. Shitty reasoning and that game is over now anyhow.

[AngryPidgeon]

I guess I should consider the possibility of a Brian/Spiffeh team.

[AngryPidgeon]

Spiffeh, have you been -shrug- about this game all along? I'm a little surprised you'd feel apathetic considering everything has revolved around you recently. Were you apathetic about the Yakko wagon on D1?

[AngryPidgeon]

This makes no sense to me if you're still considering the possibility Spiffeh is scum lying about a cop result.

What?

Spiffeh is claiming that he didn't mess with the ritual. Much like

every other person alive Today

.

Yes its possible that someone is scum and lying about that. Maybe TTH waved her hands around during twilight and said "ritualus failus!" and caused it to fail. Maybe Egg took a crap in ceremonial basket and we couldn't get over the smell. Maybe Spiffeh doused our ritual wood with kerosene and gunpowder.

[AngryPidgeon]

VOTE: Copper

> Brian was town

> copper has been on two failing rituals

> TTH I defended you so much this game, please stop voting me that is seriously wack

> I've been voting Copper, who is scum, since yesterday

> MFW:

[AngryPidgeon]

Spiffeh is scum with Copper.

Egg is town. He can only be scum if TTH is scum. Both of them being scum would not explain why a ritual with me, Copper, and Brian on it failed. Brian's paranoia about it being disrupted from 3rd party forces has no basis. GI clearly wanted town to win after being lynched and he clearly did not disrupt the ritual. That ritual failed because scum was on it, pretending to be a Shaman. It was not Brian and it was not me.

Since Egg is town and Copper is scum, that leaves TTH and Spiffeh as the only other people who can be the last scum. I'm heavily leaning Spiffeh even though he was on a passing ritual. There is no reason why Mafia cannot have a Shaman on their team. The town has seen both Animals and Shaman in their ranks. We've seen one mafia flip so far and it was distinctly not-Shaman. There must be a Shaman among the mafia though because otherwise the ritual would be too powerful as a soft-cop mechanic. The ritual is about getting -shaman- on it, not town. If the point were to get town on it, then it'd be too much of a town-sided mechanic.


I realize that even if the above is true, it does not constitute a reason to believe Spiffeh is scum. Spiffeh is scum because TTH is town. Thats it. Also his interactions with Copper yesterday read very inorganic.

[AngryPidgeon]

I don't think TTH's sticky push on me is from scum. The Brian kill sets it up to be me vs TTH today.

[AngryPidgeon]

She has been calling me scummy and voting me for several phases in a row. I keep bringing it up and it doesn't deter her. The way she goes about it is town.

I also just don't see a TTH/Copper scumteam going to lylo where both of their only options is to vote me. TTH because she's been an anti-AP echo chamber for the last several Days and Copper because I'm going to push him over the failing ritual.

[AngryPidgeon]

For one he is alive and he could have been hammered yesterday by scum if he was town.

Final Vote Count:
AngryPidgeon (2): copper223, TellTaleHeart

Only if you and TTH are both town, which you aren't.

Unfortunately TTH is going to be the wildcard that wins or loses us this game right now. Sorry if thats blunt, TTH, but seriously its time to get with the program and stop voting me.

[AngryPidgeon]

And yes it should be obvious to everyone that this is a 1v1 between me and Copper. Obviously there is precisely one scum in our group. Yes, we could lynch someone else today but really why?

[AngryPidgeon]

post! dear god I'm flaking and I apologize. I'm taking a site break after my games finish so I'm just kinda ya.

[AngryPidgeon]

Alright-y then...
Why did you not volunteer for the ritual yesterday?

I didn't and don't see a reason to. The last ritual failed with me on it, its natural to expect people to not want me on it. Also, I get as much or more information from a ritual's success by being off of it.

Queva Medicine Man

I think my Shaman role title was Qero but I'm not looking it up right now.