Shaman Mafia [Endgame]

[TellTaleHeart]

Hi everybody! ^_^/

[TellTaleHeart]

Hi everybody! ^_^/

Also- Read first, post second.

Well that's rude. >_>

Hey TTH, nice playing with you again. What is your copper read this game?

No idea, I'm just now reading!

Also, TTH....not like this : (

:S

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm through about 10 pages and I'm scumreading copper, AP, and UshiromiyaAnge.

>:(

[TellTaleHeart]

boooo

Apparently the ghosts disagree with me. >_>

@TTH
Here we go again... why do you think I'm scum this time?

Since you were part of our pre-game discussion, please confirm to Toog that Bella, you and I were trying to have a reunion game and chose Shaman mafia.

We were.

But the throwaway vote on Bella was so bad and yucky.

[TellTaleHeart]

So now pressuring lurkers is a throw-away vote?

Yes!

[TellTaleHeart]

boooo

In all seriousness, what exactly is it that you're seeing in the LLD/GreyICE hydra?

Their posts are fun to read because they're smart and funny, but the thing that sticks out to me is how adamant they were on Yakko and then they left it for reasons that make no sense. Their refusal to clearly spell out their Brian Skies case doesn't help.

[TellTaleHeart]

No idea. :S

[TellTaleHeart]

yeah tth's posts are lame

but I still love you!
just
am underwhelmed right now.

Thanks, the condescending head-patting really makes me feel like what I think matters.
I think it's a scummy action because there's a dissonance between swearing up and down that Yakko is scum and exiting the wagon when it looks like it's about to succeed. Without a compelling reason, my first instinct is that they're leaving the wagon because they know Yakko's alignment already and want to avoid potential fallout.

[TellTaleHeart]

Also, TTH....not like this : (

:S

I'm through about 10 pages and I'm scumreading copper, AP, and UshiromiyaAnge.
>:(

I'm sorry that you rolled scum in this game.

I

know

you're better than "NO U" posts.
Your Spiffeh vote was a joke.

[TellTaleHeart]

What fallout? The driving forces behind a lynch usually get called town regardless of the flip although I guess site meta is starting to shift away from that just a little bit. Still, I don't think it's to the point where scum go "oh shit, I might get the lynch I want. Better unvote". I mean if Yakko is lynched and flips town without Grey/LLD on the wagon, do you really think people will forget that they pushed the lynch early on or the way they did it? Even if there is fallout, the unvote won't erase it.

I sort of phrased that badly because I'm not really trying to fortune tell or outguess site meta.
If they're town I would expect the previous conviction behind the vote wouldn't just evaporate without an extraordinary reason, which is noticeably absent.

[TellTaleHeart]

Why is spiff town? I realize my vote on him was weak when I made it, but I don't think it was bad or scummy.

I think Spiffeh is town for my own meta reasons but none of those really matter because the vote was a cruddy, non-consensus place for you to park your vote. Even when you claimed "explore" with your vote, you didn't bother to give that compelling of a reason for people to look Spiffeh's way. There's a dissonance between what you're claiming to want to do and your actions. That is scummy.

There's also the matter of you dropping your developing copper read when your initial points were actually pretty good, but you know what they say about pre-flip associative tells.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH is... interesting. I like how he jumps to the idea that I'm looking to avoid fallout for a mislynch. Doesn't even once suggest I'm trying to avoid having a buddy flip, even though that's the more logical scum motivation for unvoting.

That's not illogical at all. There would be no point to bussing Yakko if he didn't actually flip scum. I also think that Yakko is very lynchbait-y. In the only game I've played with him, he said weird things and got mislynched on Day 1.

[TellTaleHeart]

Some of it looks like scumplay,

some of it looks like scumhunting

, none of it fucking makes sense.

When did you make this determination?

[TellTaleHeart]

Their posts are fun to read because they're smart and funny, but the thing that sticks out to me is how adamant they were on Yakko and then they left it for reasons that make no sense. Their refusal to clearly spell out their Brian Skies case doesn't help.

What about them leaving the Yakko wagon didn't make sense to you?

The reason for any of it! They seemed absolutely convinced earlier in the game that he was scum so why did they drop it? Does it make sense to you? If so, please feel free to explain how you understand it.

[TellTaleHeart]

Was that lynch primarily driven by town players or scum ones?

I don't understand what you're asking. :S

I'm currently unable to copy and paste since I'm playing this game from my phone and figuring out how to do it is a hassle (so no quote stripes for you). But basically, the way I see the games events goes as follows:
1) UA thinks Yakko is scum and wants blood for the blood gods
2) Nacho thinks Yakko is town and Copper is scum; Camntstuki thinks I'm lurking scum
3) UA disagrees with them and defends me
4) I make a terrible post
5) UA considers they could be wrong about some of their reads and vote me to see what happens

Most of this happens around page 15.

I don't particularly think anything they did around that time was scummy. So if you think something is off or doesn't make sense, you'd have to point it out for me rather than just saying it doesn't make sense.

I'm not following you either. >:(
What do you have to do with Yakko at all? In my opinion, number 4 isn't anywhere near proportional to reverse what went on in number 1. I could go back and quote all the posts where they confidently call Yakko scum and ask other players to vote him. I would feel better about all of it if there was a visible lightbulb moment for Yakko specifically.

TTH, lack of what you personally expect from town isn't the same as good reasoning why someone is scum. Why do you think they'd do that as scum?

Why wouldn't that give me an accurate read? >:S
I think if I were that completely sold on a case, something spectacular would have to happen to cause me to have such a crisis in faith. If I can't replicate what they're thinking for myself, something is up.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm not following you either. >:(
What do you have to do with Yakko at all? In my opinion, number 4 isn't anywhere near proportional to reverse what went on in number 1. I could go back and quote all the posts where they confidently call Yakko scum and ask other players to vote him. I would feel better about all of it if there was a visible lightbulb moment for Yakko specifically.

Well, when they specifically leave the Yakko wagon to vote me, one of the players voting Yakko, then I'd assume their reasoning is related. And it's not like UA weren't still preaching about how Yakko wasn't making it to Lylo regardless of their vote change.

Why is any of that relevant information?

[TellTaleHeart]

Did you replacing scum make you forget what cause and effect is?

I am no closer to figuring out what your point is. The only difference between the start of our conversation and now is just that I feel dumb.

[TellTaleHeart]

Anything can have "possible" town or scum motivations. It's what I think is more believable. If I put myself in that position and I still can't sympathize with the position, I don't think it's believable.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, have you totally caught up in the game in the interim, or are you arguing about the part you HAVE read even though you haven't read everything? It seems sort of strange that you're posting so much about things you think are scummy because you don't understand them, when you have more context waiting for you.

I caught up and I don't see any further "context" even though it seems like people are insisting it exists. I see Post 422, but it doesn't go any further than a subjective and arbitrary "genuine" label. It's frustrating because it feels like people are just filling in things with their own assumptions that aren't really there.

[TellTaleHeart]

If you think hes flipping maf, you are mistaken.

If you actually believe this you don't really seem to give much of a shit.

There's probably a reason for that. >_>

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't like this push because it's shallow; you're attacking someone for changing their mind, which isn't a compelling reason for me to follow you and isn't believable as a push I think you'd make as town.

Saying "they changed their mind" is an oversimplified and understated version of what I'm thinking.

I don't think that vote in particular being a building block of your AP read is a particularly good sign either.

Are you townreading AP? =\

[TellTaleHeart]

Second: telltale...did you ever answer my question back in....628?

No.
(That's me answering your question, not telling you I didn't answer your question.)

[TellTaleHeart]

Vote: Yakko

L-1

intent to hammer

VOTE: Yakko

The chances of Yakko flipping scum are pretty close to zero to me. =\

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH/Copper/???

I agree with you on copper so at least we have

something

in common.

[TellTaleHeart]

If Yakko flips town then I'll revisit my position.

Yakko's flip isn't even a question after your sudden hammer and UA's magical unexplained drift back over to him after my criticisms of their departure.

He's flipping town and you're already laying the groundwork for your arguments tomorrow.

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, what are your thoughts about me and copper's current conversation? Why aren't you involved already?

Getting in a word edgewise is a little difficult.

[TellTaleHeart]

after my criticisms of their departure.

So now your UA argument is that they were afraid of your criticism so they changed their mind again?

Is there another explanation? I'd love to hear it.

[TellTaleHeart]

Prod dodge. Sorry but I can't post tonight, I'll see you all tomorrow.

[TellTaleHeart]

Hi everyone! Catching up, I'll be a few minutes. ^_^

[TellTaleHeart]

Speaking of TTH, one would think being in the same QT as two people who were on her wagon the previous day would spark some dialogue. Instead, she follows me into the darkness and doesn't even acknowledge either of our existences.

I didn't really have any time for MS overnight so no I didn't post much.
I just did the "go deeper" thing-y for shits and giggles. Not much thought went into that decision and I certainly didn't think about you when I made it.

TTH, if you are town then I really need your head in this game and clear.

It's not

really

that my head's not in the game per se. Now I feel like I'm in that weird zone where I have a good feel for things but I can't articulate it well. I'm kind of getting weird vibes on Spiffeh for a couple reasons that don't make any sense and Brian for OMGUS-y reasons

and

reasons that don't make any sense. Also, I'm starting to write run on sentences. x_X

[TellTaleHeart]

I like being the vote parking lot. It's fun.

[TellTaleHeart]

Sorry if that sounds douchey I'm a lil drunk

I'm jealous.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm also finishing a lab report too so idk if it was the best decision tbh

What, is it due at midnight?

[TellTaleHeart]

I don't have strong feelings about anything he's said today. I had a townread on him earlier from some exchange I forgot and I'm definitely townreading him the most of my wagoners right now. I wouldn't vote him because it would settling for more of a lurker feel-good vote than an accurate vote.

[TellTaleHeart]

that posts wants the rope and it wants it so bad.

Does it?

I do think it's more likely than not that scum are coasting by on voting me and if even if I'm wrong about every individual read from here to the end of the game I would bet I'm right about that. Toogeloo's been tunneling on my slot since he replaced in and that read hasn't really gone anywhere since I got here. Brian's had this weird mix of saying that he wants to give me room while not engaging me and just kind of cramming in ridiculous things like accusations of selectively lurking.

I'm also scumreading UA again. I don't like all the "1v1" talk with AP because it feels like empty shouting noise. I get the weird feeling they're read on me is whiteknighting me. A lot of stuff about them just didn't and doesn't feel right. In fact, I think I'll
VOTE: UA

[TellTaleHeart]

Well, there's probably two scum left. And if UA is one of them, then at least 50% of the scum aren't coasting by on voting you.

What's your point?

I'm not asking to be sassy or snarky, I'm asking what your point is because I have no idea. I didn't say anything about how much percentage of the scumteam was doing what so I don't know why you felt like you had to say that.

TTH: Top three townreads and reasons.

Spiffeh and Egg. Yes that's only two! You don't get reasons right now for mostly embarrassing reasons. :S

[TellTaleHeart]

"I do think it's more likely than not that scum are coasting by on voting me and if even if I'm wrong about every individual read from here to the end of the game I would bet I'm right about that" is a pretty strong statement - 'even if my reads are wrong, I'm sure THIS THEORY about this game is right!'

So it's pretty weird to say that and then immediately vote against the theory. If scum are white knighting you then they're not coasting voting you.

I'm not voting with "the theory" because it's not really a "theory." It's just something I feel in my gut but I don't really know specifically where to look yet but I'm just saying what I think about the general trend as a whole. I don't vote on those.

[TellTaleHeart]

I think my confidence might look misplaced and it all looks like vomited and half baked thoughts but they make sense in my head.

[TellTaleHeart]

Scum are coasting voting you instead of say...Staeg? Not really anything wrong with your accusation, but I'm curious how you make the differentiation.

They're for individual things I remember about Staeg but I'm not going to go look up right now.

Why does lurking have to be selective?

@_@
I don't know what you're saying here.

[TellTaleHeart]

That's fine. I can wait.

Good, because the benadryl is kicking in.

What're your thoughts on Copper?

Quick and dirty: mixed. Because of my history with him I'm naturally paranoid of him because he's a smooth talker but most of the things I could put a name to in my mind day 1 depended on an AP scumread which has since disintegrated.
That's oversimplified but that'll do for now.

I still have no idea what your talking about regarding the lurking stuff but I'll let it bounce around in my head a little before taking another crack at it.

[TellTaleHeart]

And her absence doesn't make me too comfortable.

I kind of can't help when I'm on. It's a little sporadic, but that's how it has to be, so phooey to you.

I don't really like how she was so "positive" that Yakko would flip town, it looks like an attempt to gain towncred.

Yes, I've cared about getting towncred this whole time. Isn't it evident?

Keeping with that,
VOTE: Staeg

[TellTaleHeart]

The people voting me are probably town and that makes me sad.

Oh well, VOTE: UA

[TellTaleHeart]

let's keep our focus kids this was TTH essentially claiming scum to cash out the Staeg wagon, especially given that UA was her prime suspect and the L-1 vote.

So

before

you had a problem with me not voting with the theory I was confident on, and

now

you have a problem that I did vote with my theory.

How does that work?

[TellTaleHeart]

A little bit of this:

I don't have strong feelings about anything he's said today. I had a townread on him earlier from some exchange I forgot and I'm definitely townreading him the most of my wagoners right now.

I wouldn't vote him because it would settling for more of a lurker feel-good vote than an accurate vote.

and some of this:

I'm not voting with "the theory" because it's not really a "theory." It's just something I feel in my gut but I don't really know specifically where to look yet but I'm just saying what I think about the general trend as a whole. I don't vote on those.

but mostly just that you followed your then-current suspect's L-1 vote with a speed hammer and that's more than enough, really.

Yep, what you saw was me settling. Characterizing that as a "speed hammer" is naive at best, depending on how generous your interpretation is.

AP sweetie, you want to talk to me about what you're seeing with Spiffeh because right now I'm not seeing what you're seeing apparently. x_X

[TellTaleHeart]

That makes me sad but I guess do what you feel like you have to. I still feel like UA is scum, and them fading into the background after Day 1 reinforces that but I don't have any hope of anybody listening to me today.

[TellTaleHeart]

That makes me sad but I guess do what you feel like you have to. I still feel like UA is scum, and them fading into the background after Day 1 reinforces that but I don't have any hope of anybody listening to me today.

What are your other reads?

I also have a different perspective of UA, as I feel they have had a pretty solidly strong presence this game, at least compared to players like Spiffeh and Egg.

That was exactly my point, emphasis on the past tense of "had" a solidly strong presence.

Just off the top of my head, I still have a pretty stale townreads on Egg and Spiffeh. I remember generally liking the open way Egg was talking about his role and his reads and methods make enough sense. Spiffeh I was townreading mostly because his footprint on the game seems to pretty closely match this other one I just got out of with him. I think you and AP are a lot more likely to be town than not. AP's mind is wandering in a way that suggests his posting doesn't have an agenda. In retrospect on the Yakko push, I also think it's unlikely he defended a scumbuddy and then pooped out at the end without even trying to transition to bussing. All my reads are way past their "sell by" date so I should probably do something to refresh them, not to mention I forgot who else is even in this game. :S

By the way, I was in the Middle World last night! I was confused because I got two links for two QT threads and I didn't have the time or patience to sort out what was happening in each or who was even in each. I'm pretty certain Katsuki and camn were posting in one of them and I remember thinking it was weird.

[TellTaleHeart]

By the way, I was in the Middle World last night! I was confused because I got two links for two QT threads and I didn't have the time or patience to sort out what was happening in each or who was even in each. I'm pretty certain Katsuki and camn were posting in one of them and I remember thinking it was weird.

What was this other QT and why haven't you been volunteering for rituals.

I'm not sure, I'd have to look again when I have a second. From what I gathered when I clicked on the links after I got them, it looks like the same people were posting in the threads so I don't know off the top of my head what the difference was.

I would have to be delusional to think the consensus would be OK with me being on the ritual given that my slot is pretty widely suspected.

Why wasn't this information offered up immediately?

I haven't been paying attention to the night aspect of this game especially given that since we input our names on QTs, there's actually even no way of knowing the people making the posts are who they say they are.

[TellTaleHeart]

I didn't really want to have to claim, but I supposed with the deadline coming up I must.

I'm a town power animal, the Hound. My ability is that I can check the alignment of someone once in the game, but it's dependent on the Upper World-Middle World-Lower World mechanic and it involves making a separate QT thread with my target (which is why I really wasn't fazed by having two QT links sent to me last night). This is part of the reason why I tried to not leave that much of a trace about where I was at night unless I felt it was necessary. In my role PM, my ability is flavored as me looking for a friend or discovering an enemy (paraphrased, of course).

Since I knew I wouldn't get nightkilled, I've been saving my ability for the smallest pool of players possible. I tried to be as transparent about my reads during the day as I could to avoid getting lynched but I guess I overestimated that.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH
That kind of makes sense, I knew there was something off about your play this game... I still need answers to 1408 though.

One of the QTs had Spiffeh, Staeg, Katsuki, and Toogeloo. That QT is only a page long and doesn't say much outside of a short exchange between Katsuki and Spiffeh. The other QT had Staeg, Katsuki, camn, and Toogeloo. All they talked about was what happened in the Upper World the previous night. Apparently, Katsuki thinks they actually got lynched there? I'm not sure since I wasn't in the Upper World on night 1.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yes, my mistake, I missed Egg.

[TellTaleHeart]

Yes

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH, how exactly does your role interact with the lower/middle/upper mechanic? When do you get your result?

I'm not going to reveal the exact mechanic until I have results.

That makes me sad but I guess do what you feel like you have to. I still feel like UA is scum, and them fading into the background after Day 1 reinforces that but I don't have any hope of anybody listening to me today.

Also, I don't like TTH saying deadline is the reason she felt compelled to claim given that she posted this already.

What connection does what you quoted have with claiming?

[TellTaleHeart]

If you were resigned to the idea you're being lynched a week ago,

When did I say that? I said I didn't think anyone would listen to me about UA being scum. With AP the only one who apparently might agree with me, it looks like that ended up being a pretty accurate assessment.

Also, how likely is it UA is scum?

In my opinion, it's a pretty decent chance. It would at least make sense to me that they would hard push their buddy on Day 1 and then coast as conditions are favorable.

[TellTaleHeart]

you're saying you're a cop, TTH?

Why didn't you check us last night then?

My mechanics restricts who I'm allowed to check.

I appreciate you answering for me though, Brian.

[TellTaleHeart]

Vote: Hito

Where do you plan on traveling tonight?

[TellTaleHeart]

Hi!

I can only check in for a few minutes tonight and I haven't read anything, but I targeted UA and was redirected to Egg who I got an innocent result on. I'll be back tomorrow and catch up with the other goings on.

[TellTaleHeart]

Caught up. :3

I got pushback for my UA pushes this entire game and now that they're confirmed scum I'm suddenly bussing them. >:\

[TellTaleHeart]

Still think TTH has to be scum given my powers

You mean the "power" to get a guilty on non-mafia?

If I were faking a result in that scenario, I'd just say he came back 'not-town' or 'guilty' or w/e. So I kinda think hes not making that part up. He -could- be 100% bulshitting as scum here and just got lucky that he happened to bullshit on a 3rd party, but I don't really think thats extremely likely.faking a result in that scenario, I'd just say he came back 'not-town' or 'guilty' or w/e. So I kinda think hes not making that part up. He -could- be 100% bulshitting as scum here and just got lucky that he happened to bullshit on a 3rd party, but I don't really think thats extremely likely.

Really, then how do you explain the result? You think we

both

got redirected?

That's a pretty half-assed description of the what happened in the QT, AP. GreyICE made the point that since the ritual failed and it's not likely that Brian caused it to fail, it's very likely one of you and copper is an illusion and he thinks it's a lot more likely to be you. Frankly, I agree.

[TellTaleHeart]

To make the claim more convincing.

[TellTaleHeart]

@TTH what was the approximate wording of your cop result, paraphrased?

There was a lot of flavor around it, but it was essentially saying that Egg (and it was explicit that Egg was the target of the check) shared my alignment.

@copper: I can target anyone already in my QT, which is why I specifically asked UA to the Middle World. The exact mechanic isn't specified but the ability is called Communality and it lets me check to see if my target has my alignment.

[TellTaleHeart]

No PM. The results come in Town/Not Town form. It doesn't mention anything specific about illusions.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm taking "trusted" to be the same as town here. >.>

[TellTaleHeart]

Note: The word trusted did not actually show up in the result nor was I intending to quote the result with the use of my quotation marks there. Apologies.

[TellTaleHeart]

So it doesn't say if you get the result in the QT or via PM?

No, but it's way too elaborate to not be genuine.

[TellTaleHeart]

Alright-y, I'll catch up with what's been happening here.

[TellTaleHeart]

It seems like the ritual thing-y here is something that could be potentially important and it seems like something that could be settled very easily. If the ritual is successful that would implicate copper and if it fails it probably implicates AP.

I'll vote AP if it forces him to join the ritual. Otherwise, I intend to confirm AP and vote to no lynch.

[TellTaleHeart]

To paraphrase our middle world QT from last night,

GI: One of copper/AP has to be scum due to the ritual failing. Clearly, he is assuming that Brian's place on the ritual didn't have a bearing on the pass/fail. I tend to trust him here though and that means he didn't fail the ritual. One of Brian/Copper did.

He also retracted his Saulus claim. But yes, that was his line of logic. It made sense to me then and it still does.

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: AP

Confirm Spiffeh

[TellTaleHeart]

Unfortunately TTH is going to be the wildcard that wins or loses us this game right now. Sorry if thats blunt, TTH, but seriously its time to get with the program and stop voting me.

Alright-y then...
Why did you not volunteer for the ritual yesterday?

[TellTaleHeart]

TTH why are you being so unlike your town self in this game

I really haven't been. You've just never seen this kind of game from me. I have games where I get into a mental funk and I just get sucked into a blah state and this happens to be one of them.

Right now, I'm kind of waiting for AP to suss out what happened with him and what he was thinking regarding the rituals.

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm underachieving this game but I'm not the only one and I'm not scum. x_x

[TellTaleHeart]

VOTE: AngryPidgeon

[TellTaleHeart]

^_^

[TellTaleHeart]

Happy Easter to you too, Spiffeh.

[TellTaleHeart]

Thanks for the game, Fate.

Sorry I was so lame and terrible, copper. You carried the team, very well done! <3

[TellTaleHeart]

I'm OK with the scum QT being released.

[TellTaleHeart]

I constantly forgot to check that Quick Topic thing-y. :S

I like the Private Topic function on this site better.

[TellTaleHeart]

I

just

figured out that if you click "all messages," it puts all the posts a single page.

I am

so stupid

.

[TellTaleHeart]

As far as integrity goes, Nacho getting mod killed and not TTH was far worse (and yes, I saw that post Fate deleted).

I was under the impression Nacho was modkilled for violating a post restriction in his role PM. He started out with the whole "roleplaying" thing and dropped it. Am I wrong? :S

I checked the rule set and it didn't forbid twilight posting. Since Fate left the thread opened, I figured it was OK. Sorry.

[TellTaleHeart]

whereas he explicitly sent us a PM about being forbidden from doing so during the first twilight

I'm looking through my inbox right now, but I don't recall receiving such a PM myself. :S

[TellTaleHeart]

This was the D1 Twilight message:

You may not post in the thread unless I have told you otherwise during twilight. You have 24 hours from now to submit any role actions that take place during this phase.

Clarification: Journeying is a Twilight action. Please select which World you would like to journey to at this time.

This was the D2 Twilight message:

The night draws close as you decide your actions for this Twilight. Deadline is in 24 hours, possibly will be extended for Egg's V/LA notification

The difference between TTH's mistake and Nacho's violation is pretty clear to me unless Nacho didn't receive the D1 Twilight PM.

I didn't get this PM.

Unless I got it and deleted it, but that's a pretty clear sign I need to stop taking ambien because I haven't deleted any other PM's I've ever received.