Mini 1826: The Purge - Game Over

[shaddowez]

Man, Kuroi and Vedith - glad I didn't read the playerlist before joining! (I kid, I kid!)

But really,
VOTE: Vedith

As for the stranded mechanic, I thought that happened regardless of how the lynch happened, majority or plurality. Is it a normal death if it's majority?

[shaddowez]

Following on my phone, wife's b-day celebration this weekend. More on Monday probably

[shaddowez]

Alright, I'm here (usually V/LA on weekends, so expect more of that).

I'm actually currently townreading lane based on his actions around voting me. He had a reason to vote me, and upon actually looking into it realized that reason was incorrect, and so unvoted me. IMO, scum could have either dropped it unless pushed by more players (I think Nos was the only one to call him out), or at least left his vote on me for the other reason lane had listed (me not posting except to say I'd be back).

So as I said at first, our only way to harm scum is through night shots.

Lynching scum is still a priority, since they can't use their abilities if we do so (except the Strongman). It eliminates a kill, and guarantees a night shot to go through. The problem is they don't flip upon lynch, so we could effectively be wasting the shot on town.

BTW. How many of you soft V/LA during weekend? This may explains the lack of activity.

I do.

You know what? I'm down to lynching PV (0 posts), shaddow (2 posts) or Epod (4 posts). At least let's pressure them into posting more and providing some content.

VOTE: PV

This rubs me the wrong way. I have no problem with pressure votes, but you specifically say you're ok with lynching based on low activity first. We have almost two weeks, why the rush to lynch players that haven't contributed much yet?

Lane's jump on shos looks shitty. And the "don't steal my line of thought" thing shows he's concerned with being credited for calling out on realeo first which is also shitty
And the vote on shadow is super shitty. It was weekend and deadline is 11 days away idk what he's making a big deal about

@kraska

- Unless I missed something, lane's vote didn't have anything to do with me not posting, it's the fact I popped in to make a post about not posting. If that bothers you, what do you think about Almost's willingness to vote people that haven't posted much yet? (The quote above this for reference).

That thing about lane is correct, I didnt think about it. When youbare town and someone continues your train of thoughts you nod and say "YESZ". You dont attack the one agreeing with you.

I disagree with this. I've actually seen scumhunting done by town making terrible cases, and then seeing who sheeps/agrees with them.

Exactly the reaction I’d expect from scum … too virulent for a single vote and lots of dismissiveness.

I've seen pisskop act exactly this way as town. I was reading him as scum hard based on his attitude.

Policy voting for activity is even more useless this game given that Town can't actually kill anyone directly with voting. So your pressure amounts to even less than it normally does.

You make it so they can't use their abilities, which is practically a free NK for anyone that wants to take it. It's not instant like a normal lynch, but if you're town you still don't want to be in that position. Especially with scum having multiple shots, the strongman doesn't have to waste it on the person that gets stranded. What makes you think that pressure doesn't mean anything here?

[shaddowez]

Shaddow, i dont recall a reason to vote you?
And do you think this is what lane was doing? Scumhunting through who-agrees-with?
He just said it washis line of questioning. Didnt call scum.

I'm not saying that's what he was doing, but you laid out a blanket statement. Things aren't black and white, and shouldn't be looked at that way.

In post 188, kraska77 wrote:
Lane's jump on shos looks shitty. And the "don't steal my line of thought" thing shows he's concerned with being credited for calling out on realeo first which is also shitty
And the vote on shadow is super shitty. It was weekend and deadline is 11 days away idk what he's making a big deal about

@kraska - Unless I missed something, lane's vote didn't have anything to do with me not posting, it's the fact I popped in to make a post about not posting. If that bothers you, what do you think about Almost's willingness to vote people that haven't posted much yet? (The quote above this for reference).

both seem to be using lurkers as cop out from actual scumhunting
and what is wrong with popping in to announce vla? that's like...a thing people always do on this site?

Nothing's wrong with it, lane just seems to hate people doing that. Your post says his vote is shitty and go on about deadline, which nobody brought up except you. Also, you didn't really say anything about Almost. I'd like a better answer, please.

[shaddowez]

I've seen pisskop act exactly this way as town. I was reading him as scum hard based on his attitude.

Have you seen him do it as scum? Or are you suggesting he doesn’t?

I've not seen him do it as scum, so he may. I don't know if it's AI or not, but it's definitely not purely scum behavior.

You make it so they can't use their abilities, which is practically a free NK for anyone that wants to take it. It's not instant like a normal lynch, but if you're town you still don't want to be in that position. Especially with scum having multiple shots, the strongman doesn't have to waste it on the person that gets stranded. What makes you think that pressure doesn't mean anything here?

My experience says that people don’t form significant wagon Day 1 on “Hey, they have few posts” grounds for a wide variety of reasons some of which A50 has already stated about PV.

So no, I don’t think it is going to be very fruitful to throw a singleton vote at a player (especially a player who is known to underperform regardless of alignment) and expect any useful change to their play.

Do you feel this way about every game, or is it different in this one?

[shaddowez]

In post 188, kraska77 wrote:
Lane's jump on shos looks shitty. And the "don't steal my line of thought" thing shows he's concerned with being credited for calling out on realeo first which is also shitty
And the vote on shadow is super shitty. It was weekend and deadline is 11 days away idk what he's making a big deal about

@kraska - Unless I missed something, lane's vote didn't have anything to do with me not posting, it's the fact I popped in to make a post about not posting. If that bothers you, what do you think about Almost's willingness to vote people that haven't posted much yet? (The quote above this for reference).

both seem to be using lurkers as cop out from actual scumhunting

and what is wrong with popping in to announce vla? that's like...a thing people always do on this site?

In post 188, kraska77 wrote:
Lane's jump on shos looks shitty. And the "don't steal my line of thought" thing shows he's concerned with being credited for calling out on realeo first which is also shitty
And the vote on shadow is super shitty. It was weekend and deadline is 11 days away idk what he's making a big deal about

@kraska - Unless I missed something, lane's vote didn't have anything to do with me not posting, it's the fact I popped in to make a post about not posting. If that bothers you, what do you think about Almost's willingness to vote people that haven't posted much yet? (The quote above this for reference).

both seem to be using lurkers as cop out from actual scumhunting
and what is wrong with popping in to announce vla? that's like...a thing people always do on this site?

Nothing's wrong with it, lane just seems to hate people doing that. Your post says his vote is shitty and go on about deadline, which nobody brought up except you.

Also, you didn't really say anything about Almost. I'd like a better answer, please.

@shaddowez
i brought up the deadline bc lane was whining about lack of content. obviously my point was we still have a lot of time and most people were busy over the weekend
why do others have to bring up deadline for this to be acceptable lol
and i did say what i thought about a50, read post 229

anyway the way shaddow has been throwing weird filler questions my way looks like scum who knows my vote is in the wrong place
VOTE: shaddow

1) You say lane's vote on me is shitty, and the only thing you say surrounding that is your comment about the deadline. If the two were unrelated, you didn't make it appear that way.
2) lane's vote on lurkers seemed to bother you, but you didn't say anything about Almost doing the same thing. I asked you to clarify, and all you've said is "both seem to be using lurkers as cop out from actual scumhunting". That doesn't give me any idea on your specific thoughts on Almost doing it, or why you didn't call him out when you called out lane.
3) How are these filler questions?
4) If I was scum and knew your vote was in the wrong place, wouldn't I be trying to keep your vote there?

P-Edit:

- pisskop, I think we've only been in 1 game together, at least with you not in a hydra. I don't really care that much about your meta, was just responding to MoI

[shaddowez]

no the way you are going about this is youre so focused on trying to insinuate that my vote on lane is bad, that you dont notice your complete disregard for lane's push on you is all sorts of off

What push? He voted me because he thought I was making shit up about the rules, then when he realized he was wrong he unvoted me. What's so hard to understand about that? Me not posting had

zero

to do with his vote on me.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: kraska

Seriously - call this OMGUS if you want, but you're tunneling so hard and refuse to read or accept what's being said, I can't imagine you being town at this point.

[shaddowez]

Been busier at work than expected.

PV

- doesn't your plan fail if scum end up as the shooters? Barricade only blocks you from one shot, so any teams ups will both kill a player and frame the other part of that team.

MoI

- I don't think it matters anymore at this point, but I know you had asked me what I was trying to get out of an earlier conversation we were having. You specifically indicated that pressure mattered less in this game, but when explaining made it sound like you felt that way in general. If there was something specific about this game, I would've assumed you had a different POV for this game that I would've delved further into.

UNVOTE:

Honestly still not sure about kraska, but the fact she backed off and was so apologetic after admitting a mistake is reason enough for me to not vote her right now

[shaddowez]

I tell you what is dumb. Lane forcing me to make a read out of RVS.

Isn't that the point of RVS? If nobody ever made reads out of RVS, RVS would never end.

[shaddowez]

@Mod

- I will be V/LA through Tuesday 9/5 for the long weekend.

[shaddowez]

I've apparently missed about 16 pages of stuff. I'll be trying to catch up - in the interim, somebody point me to interesting things to actually address.

[shaddowez]

Not gonna lie, I only read about the past 5 pages or so. I want to do some ISOs to base reads off of, but the ones I'm most interested in are Almost, Kraska, Nos, shos, and MoI.

So here’s the summary of the case on Shos since players like Kraska pretend to be unable to follow it –

1. Adherence to a plan that benefits the Mafia –

Releo has shown the math that Shos does not dispute – T

own 100% randomly all firing with zero percent Barricading at Night statistically nets a better net benefit to Town than his 6 for 6 plan

. He’s made some fluffery posts about “Why aren’t you running some scenarios where Town barricades at some rate” but that detracts from the point – Town actually using scum-hunting and making informed decisions about Firing versus Barricading is going to do better than 100% pure statistical randomness in everyone firing. Probably significantly so.

Also he carefully avoids the fact that his plan only nets the Strongman on average 37% of the time Night 1 and has no ability to catch the other scum but always nets 1-3 Town deaths a Night.

Town has no reason to continue to push a plan that statistically is worse for Town than pure, random chance.

Even if the bolded benefits town more, doesn't it also do more to hide the scum? There's no accountability for how many shots were fired at any given person, and if no scum are hit (or were barricaded), we're in an even worse position for N2, no?

[shaddowez]

958 is terrible, and takes pretty much every single post of mine out of context. ISOs are only so useful, though it's easy for scum to look at them and cherry pick what they want to point out.

Also, the game you referenced we were in together was one I replaced out of for RL reasons.

I'm against a no strand, and definitely feel like Nos is scum here.

VOTE: Nos

[shaddowez]

Peregrine and Shaddow - I'd be very interested in hearing what you did last Night.

I barricaded as well, assuming Nos would be gunning for me.

And actually given this is LYLO I think Mason claiming should happen ASAP.

With 7 alive it reduces the viable strand options for every non-Town Mason left to 4 players, 3 of which have to be Mafia. It also narrows down the number of viable targets for non-Mason Town players to shoot at night. It is paramount we kill Mafia tonight and I'd not like for Town to misfire on Masons when scum already has a 50/50 shot of killing at least one of them with the Strongman anyway.

I think masons claiming early is a terrible idea. If they don't

need

to claim (ie one of them is going to be stranded), that's pretty much autodeath for both toNight unless one of the non-strongman mafia are stranded.

My top scumspects were town, and now I have more townreads than I should. :/

[shaddowez]

There pretty much should be absolutely no voting.

Shooters do not reveal targets yet, just shot or barricade.

I'm interested in why on both of these as well.

Not gonna waste time on a readslist that is just gonna change when the masons claim. I'm gonna do a decently in-depth one later tonight.

Top scumspects are pere, MoI, and shadow, though MoI is pretty much null for me. Can't read him for my life.

You can still have a reads list even if it's going to change. Also, why are you saying MoI is a scumspect and in the very next breath saying you can't read him?

P-Edit:

I didn't say they shouldn't claim at all, I said they shouldn't claim early. Scum have to spread themselves thinner trying to make up reasons for 4 town to try and strand rather than 2.

[shaddowez]

Since Shaddow has answered I can now -

I shot Shaddow.

Still waiting for Peregrine to claim his suspects ...

So, I'm confused as to why you had to wait for me to answer for this. You shooting me and me not dying guarantees I'm not the Strongman, even if I was scum. And if I were scum, what sense would it make for me to lie about barricading?

[shaddowez]

Your 3 choices for scum?

At this point MoI, Infinity, and lane.

[shaddowez]

Cause it seems like you're town reading Realeo, and aren't considering Realeo/perev scum. It'd be easier if you had your reads out

Have you listed your top three yet? I'm guessing Pere/realeo from your last post, so who's your third?

[shaddowez]

Cause it seems like you're town reading Realeo, and aren't considering Realeo/perev scum. It'd be easier if you had your reads out

Have you listed your top three yet? I'm guessing Pere/realeo from your last post, so who's your third?

Don't know. That's the "???"

Duh. I remembered seeing that, and then couldn't find it when I was looking again.

[shaddowez]

Am I the only one who is speculating that Moi is SM, Shadow is barricading goon? and that

Moi shoot Shadow

is just some crazy gambit?

I mean, I can't justify them by direct accusation, but I can justify them by POE.

Yep. Have you ever answered PVs question about your top 3 scumspects? I'm guessing that me and MoI are two of them from this post. Interested in your third.

PEdit: why do you say MoI strongman in particular

A goon!MOI can't risk claiming "I shot Shadow", especially when MOI is at the top of the town read.

How is MoI "top of the town read"? He has the same number of people scum reading him as Pere, lane, and I all do.

[shaddowez]

If peregineV is town, then my reading is royally wrong. Which is why the moment the day starts, I claimed intention for an opportunity to change my mind.

Then how about you provide two lists? One assuming PV is town, and one assuming PV is scum?

[shaddowez]

and pere couldhave been town, or even a mason, but he wasnt.

How do you know this as fact?

[shaddowez]

Whats his scum motivation?

Scum motivation for what?

Anything.

His behavior?

umm, for instance, voting me and then unvoting what was (at the time) a semi-viable wagon?

I actually don't see this. At the time MoI was voting you, you had 3 votes and shos had 2. MoI switched to shos' wagon, effectively switching the numbers. He then stays on the shos(who is now conftown) wagon until deadline. How does that show town motivation?

[shaddowez]

Which means shadow is mason

How did you reach that conclusion?

^ Beat me to it.

[shaddowez]

Are we ready to vote yet? Non masons have to pick 3 scum of 4 people left, shouldn't be that difficult to come to terms on 1.

1. Realeo
2. Shadow
3. Infinity

My ranked lynch preference. Add them all up. Lowest number wins (loses)

I like this plan. I have my three already, but will post them after others do.

[shaddowez]

Sorry all, was on V/LA for the weekend as usual but forgot to post it.

I keep going back and forth between lane and Realeo as the last scum. Pretty much every time one of them has me convinced, the other one posts something that makes me reverse my reads. I haven't completely caught up since Friday yet, so I'm going to do that now.

[shaddowez]

we should be lynching for notstrongarm scum. ie scum who dont mind looking bad, obvious, aggressive, et al.

its some speculation though

I agree with this - strongarm would want to be stranded since it doesn't matter to them.

[shaddowez]

strongarm

derp - that's the name of a clan from a game I'm in.....

Yes, strongman

[shaddowez]

Apparently, even if the topic of the conversation is not setup spec, the way of how the dynamic works is contra plan v pro plan and prop plan v abstain.

Contra plan : MOI, Shadow, pisskop, Realeo

I don't remember actually being against the plan - I don't think I spoke out about it much at all, actually.

Did you scumread lane at the end of the game, or like my case, towny but null, when the death people are removed, he is at the bottom of the list?

Yes, lane is mostly a PoE read right now.

shaddow, you think lane is town?

youve gotta come contribuite here

Early in D1 I was townreading lane based on a specific action. Currently there are 4 people left, 3 of which have to be scum. I'm convinced that MoI and Infinty are both scum, so realeo/lane are both PoE. If I had to vote one of the two of them right now, it'd probably be lane. Realeo seems to be trying to actually figure out motivations a bit more.

[shaddowez]

I am not ccing

[shaddowez]

Also for the record if Shaddow is in that scum team I will not support stranding anyone but him. I know for a fact he's not the Strongman so if he is scum him being stranded helps Town signficantly.

Considering all the win conditions (i.e. if everyone's dead scum still win), do you think it would have been in scums best interest for any of them to barricade N1? I understand that this could be WIFOM, but logically I can't see why scum wouldn't take advantage of as many shots as possible on N1.

[shaddowez]

Derp, gotcha

I find it interesting that you just accept his word for how things went down, considering you think that MoI and I are scum together (based on 13016),

[shaddowez]

MOI's play at D1 rules himself out of the strongman list.

Scum have daytalk as per the setup. If he's scum, there's a chance he didn't actually shoot me but one of his buddies did, and he's just making the ploy. I'm not sure to what end that would serve, but there's zero

guarantee

he's Goon or Town.

[shaddowez]

Scum have daytalk as per the setup. If he's scum, there's a chance he didn't actually shoot me but one of his buddies did, and he's just making the ploy. I'm not sure to what end that would serve, but there's zero guarantee he's Goon or Town.

In other words you actually can't point to anything to would actually support your claim and are backing right off the "MoI is Strongman" I see.

I mean, sure? I don't actually think you're strongman, that was never my case. It's just impossible for anybody to say you're definitely not unless they're scum, since the possibility exists.

[shaddowez]

VOTE: Infinity

My best bet for non-strongman at this point.

[shaddowez]

I'd also prefer an Infinity lynch, but since that doesn't look like it'll happen (and I'm definitely not voting for myself), I'll vote with the masons.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: lane

[shaddowez]

Id vote

for

the masons too.

O.o

[shaddowez]

For coordination purposes since I'm about to be sans internet access except phone -

I'm going to shoot any of my scum reads (Shaddow / Lane / Infinity) if they are stranded. So the Masons understand what action I am taking.

If you're town, this basically guarantees a win for scum. Good job

[shaddowez]

Oh, I scum read it. But at that point, if i didn't get stranded he would've taken the shot. Pere crumbed my name in case i lived

[shaddowez]

Actually figured out realeo was scum when he suggested 2v2v2 workout unvoting me, but was too late at that point

[shaddowez]

Also got to thinking MoI was town at the end when he was adamant about shooting the stranded player. that didn't make sense from a scum POV

[shaddowez]

Pere convinced me you were town gambiting. Had I claimed, you would have been stranded as scum and we would have lost anyway