Mini 1826: The Purge - Game Over

[PeregrineV]

Vote: pisskop

Will read today.

[PeregrineV]

Fine tuned read the rules.

No lynching, just stranding, open setup.

[PeregrineV]

Fine tuned read the rules.

No lynching, just stranding, open setup.

And -most importantly- we do NEED you to be here in this game (if you're town, that is). PK has a point saying you're a fine player, but ONLY when you do actually play!

I'll do a fresh read and go from there.

[PeregrineV]

Still haven't read, but what about

Odd numbered players shoot the person above them.
Even numbered players barricade.

If the strongman is even, he dies.
If the strongman is odd, he kills and cuts the lynch pool in half.

I think this could lead to an extra mafia kill at night, but at the risk of getting them killed (if they are even and shoot anyway), but would narrow the lynch pool.

Anyways, something like that, but better.

Thoughts?

[PeregrineV]

Still haven't read, but what about

Odd numbered players shoot the person above them.
Even numbered players barricade.

If the strongman is even, he dies.
If the strongman is odd, he kills and cuts the lynch pool in half.

I think this could lead to an extra mafia kill at night, but at the risk of getting them killed (if they are even and shoot anyway), but would narrow the lynch pool.

Anyways, something like that, but better.

Thoughts?

I disagree on all of this. I don't like our night actions being transparent because I don't think we should be easy pickings for scum.

The issue comes up when scum goons are shooting. They can avoid shooting their barricaded buddy and shoot a town shooter.

Or, they can gang up on a town barricade.

But, if they try to shoot when they are supposed to be barricading, they will die. But, knowing how to shoot, they will take a townie with them.


Anyways, more heads are better.

[PeregrineV]

Let me put it this way.

This night killing agreement only works when everyone abides it, right?

I am not going to abide any of it when both masons are alive.

(Unless you can come with something that guarantees that both masons are alive)

And Pereginev, your plan sucks. If scum is odd, instead killing the even, he will kill another odd. Maximum of 9 town dead. 3 mafiaosos v 2 town. GGWP.

Nominally, no kills happen except strongman. Strongman either shoots, and his kill goes through, or he gets shot, because he cant barricade.

So, he will shoot anyway. If he is a shooter, then lynch pool is reduced, making him easier to catch.
If he is supposed to be barricading, then he kills, but he dies.

[PeregrineV]

unless im missing sth, this looks like a solid plan to me *shrugs*

It's got holes. It mostly depends on where scum are located in the list.

Worse case is 2 town dies and no scum, but leaves the game at 5v3, with scum being 3 out of those 5.

Best case is we lose one town, and kill or out the strongman.

But, there are issues. not even counting worse case.

[PeregrineV]

Stop discussing plans.

There is not going to be a plan.

Any publicly stated plan is easily co-optable by scum since they know the expected outcome and can deviate to their benefit. And no plan that can hold them accountable for deviating is likely to result Town immediately losing overnight.

The only Town players who should be making coordinated Night plans are the Masons at this stage.

Perhaps later in the game if there is a situation where coordinated Town actions make sense we will implement them.

Until that point - stop discussing plans.

It's math.

5 shooters 5 defenders

Strongman either no kills, or shoots. If he shoots, he casues the only kill. If he does not, he dies since he cant barricade.

[PeregrineV]

we only needs 3 people to kill a player. hands down.
o
f 1 scum is in any group he cant save a buddy because the 2 tiwnies will shoot him.
2 scum in any group would be suspicious if their publically stated target dies

nobody has to vote with their masob buddy, and my plan isno worse than any organized attempt to kill people.
better in fact

Give details. Like numbers.

[PeregrineV]

town shooter-no effect
town shooter-no effect
strongman- kills town shooter (collapsing lynch pool) or town defender
scum shooter- A. either shoots town shooter, or B. joins with scum shooter to kill town defender.
scum shooter- A. either shoots town shooter, or B. joins with scum shooter to kill town defender.

town defender
town defender
town defender
town defender
town defender

End of the night, there are either 5 shooters (and 2 dead town), and 3 of those 5 are scum, or there are less shooters, and still 3 scum in there.

Worse case is scum out themslves, making 4 town and 3 known scum. Throw one in jail, hope it's not the strongman, blast the shit out of the last 2.

Last scum comes out of jail with town in the lead 2-1, town win.

[PeregrineV]

oh no.

I dont do work.

i brought this up and suggested a viable plan. do whatever anarchy is acceptable too so im not going out of my way to do anything on a phone.


hows that cachup going

meh. This is funner.

[PeregrineV]

town shooter-no effect
town shooter-no effect
strongman- kills town shooter (collapsing lynch pool) or town defender
scum shooter- A. either shoots town shooter, or B. joins with scum shooter to kill town defender.
scum shooter- A. either shoots town shooter, or B. joins with scum shooter to kill town defender.

town defender
town defender
town defender
town defender
town defender

End of the night, there are either 5 shooters (and 2 dead town), and 3 of those 5 are scum, or there are less shooters, and still 3 scum in there.

Worse case is scum out themslves, making 4 town and 3 known scum. Throw one in jail, hope it's not the strongman, blast the shit out of the last 2.

Last scum comes out of jail with town in the lead 2-1, town win.

Flipped

town shooter-no effect
town shooter-no effect
strongman- kills town shooter (collapsing lynch pool) or town defender
town shooter-
town shooter-

scum defender- block or die, could kill town shooter and die
scum defender- block or die, could kill town shooter and die
town defender
town defender
town defender

If scum sacrifice, it leaves 5 town and the strongman, who killed when he shouldn't have been able to.

if they do not, then strongman is caught. Rinse and repeat.

[PeregrineV]

Still haven't read, but what about

Odd numbered players shoot the person above them.
Even numbered players barricade.

If the strongman is even, he dies.
If the strongman is odd, he kills and cuts the lynch pool in half.

I think this could lead to an extra mafia kill at night, but at the risk of getting them killed (if they are even and shoot anyway), but would narrow the lynch pool.

Anyways, something like that, but better.

Thoughts?

You are thinking too simplistically.

What does Player slot 1 do? There are 13 starting players so slot 1 is unaccounted for unless they should wrap around under your plan in which case they automatically kill player 13 who is also shooting above. So that's a pretty big hole. Or are you automatically Stranding them? If so that player being the Strongman means your plan is borked from the start as they can still shoot and are not accounted for in the Odds shoot up scenario.

1 player is stranded. As long as it's NOT the strongman, they cant kill and are out of the equation.

Since we don't know the player distribution it is possible that that scum can be arranged to make your "cut the lynch pool in half" an exercise in WIFOM. Does the strongman surviving mean he's in Odds?

We know 3 scum. If storngman is inthe odds, he is shot since he cant barricade)

Or does it mean his partner happens to be right below him in list and chose to not kill an additional Town to send everyone after the Odds?
If his even partner does not shoot the strongman, but helps to kill a defender instead, then all the shooters are suspect.

But, they still only have one NK in a night instead of multiple.

Same with multiple deaths - what information do you take from it?

Too many holes in this plan that can be exploited by scum that Town don't have nearly enough information to properly parse what happened at Night.

Run through the scenarios. I did. Best/case/worse case/whatever.

[PeregrineV]

@moi
if we arrange it so first player on the list(lane) shoots the 13th player(me)
then if no strongman dies or no kill breaks the chain, that would automatically point to lane being confstrongman no?

I have no idea why you think the 1st player shooting the 13th player means anything other than a likely extra Town death given the 13th is committed by the plan to shooting 12th player.

Sure the 13th slot could be scum. Odds are only 23% of that being the case. Do you think that 77% of the time that means an extra Town kill occurs under the plan which I have already pointed out other issue with is a good thing?

We strand whoever, leaving us with 12.

[PeregrineV]

Also since the only way Town actually kills the Mafia is to shoot them Peregrine's plan simply wittles down Town's numbers while leaving scum possibly intact.

How?

[PeregrineV]

Ok, let me put it this way: Let's assume that _I_ am the strongman. I know my shot will go through anyways. If I'm supposed to shoot X (a townie) I will instead shoot Y (another townie) to setup the person who was supposed to shoot them. Come the morning we still have a dead body .. a townie. Only it's not the one I was supposed to shoot, so I'm clear from being the strongman, but "someone else" is suspected to be.

If you live through the night, you were a shooter, and ALL of the shooters are now suspect.

But, 6 suspects is easier to hunt from.

[PeregrineV]

This means two townies dead 9my shot and the stranded, assuming they are in the "targets" group, and then one person suspected to be the strongman, so they are the next one to get stranded. You think you've cleared half the players?? You actually cleared two Mafiosos, and only limited the suspects to half of the list being precisely the strongman. Now what exactly have we gained (sorry, what has the TOWN gain. Remember, I'm playing the villain). NOTHING. We lost 2 lives and decided a strongman exists in the the unscathed half of the list, while 2 goons are in the half that lost 2 townies.

???

If you shot a player, they die. How do you kill 2?

[PeregrineV]

His plan doesn't auto-locate the strongman and if you think so you probably should re-adjust your thinking

unless scum team is arranged as scum/strongman/scum on the list? like the possibility is there just really really reaaaally low

. what are the odds of the scum team being lined up above eachother and strongman being in the middle? given that the list is the way it bc of signup order and that roles were randomised
but even then, what you said about town numbers wittling on night one doesnt stand. this is still really limiting scum's actions

what am i missing here?

The worst spot would be if goon is supposed to shoot strongman, but does not, then one of the shooters is known scum, but not strongman scum.

[PeregrineV]

unless im missing sth, this looks like a solid plan to me *shrugs*

It's got holes. It mostly depends on where scum are located in the list.

Worse case is 2 town dies and no scum, but leaves the game at 5v3, with scum being 3 out of those 5.

Best case is we lose one town, and kill or out the strongman.

But, there are issues. not even counting worse case.

Mate, again: What if I'm a goon and the strongman is shos (the one above me on the list .. the one I'm supposed to shoot)? I simply will NOT shoot, and thus he will not die. Now even worse, you will assume he had been barracading, so you'd be putting him in the "not the strongman" list!

I also can't see you 5vs3

with scum being ...

because you're basing it all on the assumption everyone is town. For your plan to work; SCUM need to be working with you on it!!!

But we know scum is in the shooters.

The idea is to force scum to fall in line. Deviation gets them killed faster.

@Anyone great at math.

What are the chances of a scum goon being immediately below the strongman.

[PeregrineV]

The worst spot would be if goon is supposed to shoot strongman, but does not, then one of the shooters is known scum, but not strongman scum.

How would you be able to tell?? Let's assume we do go through with the plan, and strongman does NOT die. How do you know if he was in the shooters group or the defenders group? He could be a shooter, yet he could be a defender who was supposed to get shot by their own buddy. THAT is the point!

The strongman has cannot barricade. If he in not killed, then he, or a goon, is a shooter.

[PeregrineV]

Actually 16.66%, since there are 2 goons

So an 84% chance of killing the stongman on night 1?

[PeregrineV]

Here's a rebuttal.

Even kill odd, right?

So the assumption is, if strongman is odd, he is auto killed. If strongman is even, he survives and the lynch pool cuts in 1/2.

But there is a way for strongman to survive as odd and not getting killed.

Spoiler: How?

It works where there are 2 consecutive scum:

#7 Strongman
#8 Mafia

#7 will not die. You will assume that 8 shot #7 and #7 barricaded.

And mate. Cut the lynch pool by half? How confindent are you that you will catch the scum in 1st lynch?

If the Strongman lives, then he is either
A. A shooter
B. A defender who has been paired with a goon shooter

Either way, we have a smaller pool in which to look for scum.

[PeregrineV]

Can we just, town, each town nominate three people that we want to kill and vouch that if we don't barricade, we will kill in the list.

Say, I nominate {Kuroi,Almost,MoI} just for illustration.

If I don't barricade, I vouch that I will kill in the list.

Obviously, if only person nominate a guy, that guy will not be shot, thus increasing the probability of a successful shot.

Less opportunity for Wifom.

I'd like to see that nomination practice happen, even if we don't shoot them.

[PeregrineV]

Can we officially say that we have a plan and start over D1 as a normal scumhunting game, so that we can end today with a stranded guy and a list of 6 X shoots Ys?

HURT: NO

The X shoots Y only hits a maximum amount of 1 scum. My method of nominating kill and intuitively adjusting our kill can potentially eradicate all mafia if we make

a perfect read.

Bolded is the issue with the plan.

[PeregrineV]

OK, steps.

One person stranded at random. (This person will actually be selected, but this is for demonstration purposes).

Original Roll String: 1d13

1 13-Sided Dice: (11) = 11

[PeregrineV]

OK, steps.

One person stranded at random. (This person will actually be selected, but this is for demonstration purposes).

Original Roll String: 1d13 (STATIC)

1 13-Sided Dice: (9) = 9

KuroiXHF is stranded.

leaves 12 players.

[PeregrineV]

I'm debating incorporating shos' Pick6 plan where the pairs are assigned, but for now lets stick to original.

Randomly determined scum.

Original Roll String: 3d13

3 13-Sided Dice: (9, 6, 11) = 26

[PeregrineV]

I'm debating incorporating shos' Pick6 plan where the pairs are assigned, but for now lets stick to original.

Randomly determined scum.

Original Roll String: 3d13 (STATIC)

3 13-Sided Dice: (2, 1, 4) = 7

Scum are

lane0168

PeregrineV

shos
Almost50
Vedith
Epod~lady

shaddowez

MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Realeo
Nosferatu
pisskop
Kraska77

[PeregrineV]

Strongman randomly determined.

Original Roll String: 1d3

1 3-Sided Dice: (3) = 3

[PeregrineV]

Strongman randomly determined.

Original Roll String: 1d3 (STATIC)

1 3-Sided Dice: (2) = 2

Yeah for me!!

[PeregrineV]

I'm debating incorporating shos' Pick6 plan where the pairs are assigned, but for now lets stick to original.

Randomly determined scum.

Original Roll String: 3d13 (STATIC)

3 13-Sided Dice: (2, 1, 4) = 7

Scum are

lane0168

PeregrineV

shos
Almost50
Vedith
Epod~lady

shaddowez

MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Realeo
Nosferatu
pisskop
Kraska77

PeregrineV

shoots

lane0168

Almost50 shoots shos
Epod lady replacement shoots Vedith
MoI shoots

Shaddow

Nosferatu shoots Realeo
kraska shoots pisskop

[PeregrineV]

I'm debating incorporating shos' Pick6 plan where the pairs are assigned, but for now lets stick to original.

Randomly determined scum.

Original Roll String: 3d13 (STATIC)

3 13-Sided Dice: (2, 1, 4) = 7

Scum are

lane0168

PeregrineV

shos
Almost50
Vedith
Epod~lady

shaddowez

MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Realeo
Nosferatu
pisskop
Kraska77

PeregrineV

shoots

lane0168

Almost50 shoots shos
Epod lady replacement shoots Vedith
MoI shoots

Shaddow

Nosferatu shoots Realeo
kraska shoots pisskop

Now, I as scum striongman, do not kill my bud. I kill

Original Roll String: 1d10

1 10-Sided Dice: (7) = 7

.

[PeregrineV]

I'm debating incorporating shos' Pick6 plan where the pairs are assigned, but for now lets stick to original.

Randomly determined scum.

Original Roll String: 3d13 (STATIC)

3 13-Sided Dice: (2, 1, 4) = 7

Scum are

lane0168

PeregrineV

shos
Almost50
Vedith
Epod~lady

shaddowez

MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Realeo
Nosferatu
pisskop
Kraska77

PeregrineV

shoots

lane0168

Almost50 shoots shos
Epod lady replacement shoots Vedith
MoI shoots

Shaddow

Nosferatu shoots Realeo
kraska shoots pisskop

Now, I as scum striongman, do not kill my bud. I kill

Original Roll String: 1d10 (STATIC)

1 10-Sided Dice: (8) = 8

.

Nosefertu was selected, but I want to frame him instead, so I kill Realeo.

this leaves lane from to shoot a shooter (kraska)
Shaddow can sacrifice himslef to take out another town, or just barricade. We'll say barricade.

Leaving, at the beginning of day2, 1 scum in Nosefeatu, MoI, Epodlady, Almost50, PeregrineV and Kurio.

And 9 town to 3 scum.

[PeregrineV]

At that point, we have

lane0168
PeregrineV
shos
Almost50
Vedith
Epod~lady
shaddowez
MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Nosferatu
pisskop

Now we randomize the list again.

Original Roll String: 1d11

1 11-Sided Dice: (7) = 7

[PeregrineV]

At that point, we have

lane0168
PeregrineV
shos
Almost50
Vedith
Epod~lady
shaddowez
MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Nosferatu
pisskop

Now we randomize the list again.

Original Roll String: 11d11

11 11-Sided Dice: (4, 5, 9, 9, 11, 6, 10, 10, 1, 8, 6) = 79

[PeregrineV]

At that point, we have

lane0168
PeregrineV
shos
Almost50
Vedith
Epod~lady
shaddowez
MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Nosferatu
pisskop

Now we randomize the list again.

Original Roll String: 11d11 (STATIC)

11 11-Sided Dice: (11, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 6, 10, 4, 8, 10) = 84

pisskop
Almost50
Vedith
Shaddow
KuroiXHF
Nosferatu
Epodlady
lane0168
MagnaofIllusion
PeregrineV
shos


Nah, that kind of sucks--maybe just flip it.

lane0168

shoots

PeregrineV

shos
shoots
Almost50

Vedith
shoots

shaddowez

MagnaofIllusion
shoots
KuroiXHF

Nosferatu
shoots
Pisskop

Stranded
Epodlady

......


Hmmmmmm

[PeregrineV]

Can we just work out what we do tonight and then work out from there for tomorrow?

For tonight, we either have a plan, or we don't.

If we don't, it's everyone do what they want.

If no one told you, what would you do as of right now?

[PeregrineV]

guess I'll just read for a while.

I'd like to put the shos-partner thing in there, but that might defeat the purpose since it then makes the whole thing subject to outside influence.

[PeregrineV]

I did say I don't want to vote PV because his lurking is NAI, and I was still NULL on him. Then I voted him to PRESSURE HIM TO SHOW UP & POST SOMETHING. I don't know how else to grab PV's attention. Hell, sometimes he doesn't even care when he's @L-2/L-1

Flowers.
Chocolate.
A good joke.
Or even a bad one.

[PeregrineV]

We dont need it. Why are we trying to kill a role that is only going to be replaced.

If we arent going to scumhunt with it we shouldnt need it. fall off the strongman, hes there to make the setup unbreakable.

Because we are killing scum. We need to kill all 3 to win.

[PeregrineV]

This plan what were wasting time on instead of scumhunting?

Talking about it results in scumhunting.

Talk about a plan to catch scum:

Some players point out that scum together in the list can game the system.
Some players consider the merits of the plan.
Some don't like planning.
Some have alternate plans.

I think this tells us something.

[PeregrineV]

@Shos

- the issue with 6 shooting 6 scummy is that

1. We have to have enough agreement from everyone on who the 6 scummy are
2. Everyone has to shoot thier assigned person with no deviation.

The issues are

1. We have a hard time agreeing on a single person to lynch, so anything less than 12 people agreeing on the 6 scummiest means the plan breaks down.
2. There is no enforcement mechanism since the lynch is not even that.

Given that, it would be easier to fuck with the plan overall, reducing it's effectiveness.

Probably just going to go with he whole shoot who I think it scum tonight, and maybe see what happens tomorrow.

[PeregrineV]

Now, can someone (Realeo) go back and see what players mentioned that the plan would fail if scum were next to each other in the list?

[PeregrineV]

Votecount 1.6

shos (5) - nosferatu, pisskop, magna, realeo, almost (L-2)
realeo (1) - vedith
pisskop (2) -

perev

,

shos
kraska (1) - lane

Not voting (4) - Not Chara, kuroi, kraska, shaddow

With 13 alive, it takes 7 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-10 06:30:00) remain until day end

That purple vote survived 14 pages.

Do you see what I don't see, perev, so your vote stays there?

Didn't see anything from pisskop to make me want to move it
+
not sold on shos scum, since he is always scumread
+
still looking to see if there is anyone I like better for scum.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine’s content that several people have noted has one important facet – no indications of actually trying to find players who are scummy. 100% set-up and set-up argument related. It’s a great way to put out lots of words yet do nothing to actually find scum. Aside from Shos he would be my second strand choice. 524 exemplifies this – he convienently doesn’t even blink at the fact that Shos has amassed a significant wagon.

Why, I could start drilling each person and ask why, Why, WHY!?!

But, don't care enough to. It's day1, lynch means someone still has to shoot him, plus he was only trying to make improvements to a plan instead of shooting it down. Trying to make things better isn't scummy.

As for your own vote "reason" (473), Realeo listed THE ONLY THING that bothers him was X, but it was enough for you to find shos scummy?

[PeregrineV]

Also I’m pretty confident that Shos is scum. The fact that he’s not paying attention to my posts indicates he isn’t interested in sorting me. But he knows first-hand from Mod experience that I can be dangerous if I’m not Town. And yet there was no indication that what he considers scum-behavior in Pisskop that I am also doing is considered scum behavior in me. If anything if he was Town and thought fighting against his plan was scummy he should be zeroed in on me absolutely first. Yet 556 still indicates that he doesn’t scum-read me.

If he did, he will probably just shoot you, no?

[PeregrineV]

1. Why can’t you do that?
2. What is the significance to alignment of that?

I’m one of the many players who noted that possibility BTW.

1. Independent verification
+
Additional opinions other than my own

2. Because randomly, in my mind, when I glance at the list, I would see names in green with red instersparced. I wouldn't stick 2 red names together.
But, if your actually looking at the list and know who the red names are, maybe they are together.

Know what I mean?

Spoiler: Elegant

lane0168

PeregrineV

shos

Almost50
Vedith
Not Chara Epod~lady

shaddowez

MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Realeo

Nosferatu

pisskop

Kraska77

Spoiler: Elegant

lane0168

PeregrineV
shos
Almost50
Vedith
Not Chara Epod~lady

shaddowez

MagnaofIllusion
KuroiXHF
Realeo
Nosferatu
pisskop

Kraska77

Spoiler: Not Elegant

lane0168
PeregrineV
shos

Almost50
Vedith

Not Chara Epod~lady
shaddowez
MagnaofIllusion

KuroiXHF

Realeo
Nosferatu
pisskop
Kraska77

[PeregrineV]

As for your own vote "reason" (473), Realeo listed THE ONLY THING that bothers him was X, but it was enough for you to find shos scummy?

I've written pretty clearly why Shos's finding of Pisskop's behavior to be scum indicative but my similar behavior to be not is suspect, especially given what I know he knows of my play.

Do you not find that inconsistency scummy?

No, it's a form of meta and somewhat based on expectations.

Did you ask him about it?

[PeregrineV]

I will defend pereV in this case. I think he did a good job. True, he actively make setup spec, but he also actively destroying setup spec (ie. the dice roll), so I put him at "town with good intention".

Again why?

It's something scum can quite easily do. You may disagree about whether plan establishment is good or bad (it's clearly bad) but it isn't out of character at all for scum to present a plan as a means of presenting as Town.

What do you think of his lack of scum-hunting?

And before you respond - making plans is not scum-hunting.

The good thing about this game is I can do my voting at night.

[PeregrineV]

If he did, he will probably just shoot you, no?

That is a scummy interpretation. Why should he not push to strand me if he thought I was scum?

You are hard to lynch.

You are harder to lynch day1.

Even if you are scum, you got 2 buddies.

[PeregrineV]

2. Because randomly, in my mind, when I glance at the list, I would see names in green with red instersparced. I wouldn't stick 2 red names together.
But, if your actually looking at the list and know who the red names are, maybe they are together.

Um again this makes no sense. Unless you have reason to believe that Persival didn't randomly assign alignments in this set-up. Do you have reason to believe so Pere?

Read 569.

[PeregrineV]

How did you not get them? I have been explicit in my thoughts about any public plan being co-optable and thus not good for Town.

It's not like I haven't been clear. Also, is this not clear to you?

Others have shown why those plans are co-optable, because they don't want it to be.

You didn't bother explaining, so it sounds like you dismissed it out of hand because you didn't want ANY plan.

See the difference?

[PeregrineV]

Read 569.

I did. My assessment is "Fluff that has no impact on how alignments were distributed"

Elegence isn't a consideration in randomizing alignments. You've been around long enough to know this but keep posting fluff like that.

And yet you persist.

Because the Plan started as a concept to kill scum, esp. the strongman on night 1.

Operationally, it would not work as intended.

Some players worked it out and opposed it. You seem to oppose it because it was presented.

[PeregrineV]

Others have shown why those plans are co-optable, because they don't want it to be.

You didn't bother explaining, so it sounds like you dismissed it out of hand because you didn't want ANY plan.

See the difference?

Because for every scenario you can devise I can find a way that scum could co-opt it. I'm not going to spend all my time arguing hypotheticals when we have scum to find.

I can point you to MANY, MANY cases of scum in games having more information than Town (which is, by nature, the game) and using said knowledge to 'break' plans that were supposedly game-over for scum.

And any plan presented in this game is going to be no different.

It's an open setup. The only knowledge scum has is who they are.

[PeregrineV]

It's an open setup. The only knowledge scum has is who they are.

Your point?

I can point you to MANY, MANY cases of scum in games having more information than Town (which is, by nature, the game) and using said knowledge to 'break' plans that were supposedly game-over for scum.

Your using this as a reason not to plan or to try and plan, when in this game of open setup there is no "more information" to use to break any plan.

The only more information would be knowing the strongman was stranded and knowing scum names are located adjacent to one another on the list.

[PeregrineV]

2 things:

1- Like, I would be REALLY pissed if MoI (of all) is the one stranded tonight!

2- That shos logic borders on a LAL PL on it's own. SK !=Town, and with another SK in play it certainly merits a totally different style of play.

Now

I

have seen Town!MoI in action, and I can confirm his play here is very likely his town play

. In fact, I'm almost certain this is Town!MoI. Seriously, if I had ELEVEN dayvig shots in line, I'd be gunning you all down one bu one until it's just me and him standing, and if the game still doesn't end THEN and ONLY THEN will I be convinced otherwise.

Which games were those?

[PeregrineV]

@Not_Chara: Nex time, say pedit instead of edit. You are scaring people

However, MOI made a good point though. Shos' logic feels flipped-flop.

I will wait for PereV before fliiping.

And 11 pm. Good night.

What do you want to know?

[PeregrineV]

2 things:

1- Like, I would be REALLY pissed if MoI (of all) is the one stranded tonight!

2- That shos logic borders on a LAL PL on it's own. SK !=Town, and with another SK in play it certainly merits a totally different style of play.

Now

I

have seen Town!MoI in action, and I can confirm his play here is very likely his town play

. In fact, I'm almost certain this is Town!MoI. Seriously, if I had ELEVEN dayvig shots in line, I'd be gunning you all down one bu one until it's just me and him standing, and if the game still doesn't end THEN and ONLY THEN will I be convinced otherwise.

Which games were those?

Bump.

[PeregrineV]

What do you want to know?

A bare minimum of scumlist with why.

Also bump.

You want to know who I find scummy and why?

OK.

Almost50 - more of a gut vibe warring with a town vibe
Vedith - More of that gut
MagnaofIllusion - Neagtive attitude towards any night plans
Nosferatu- Gutty gut gut gut

PLus, I feel like everyone else is more townie.

[PeregrineV]

MagnaofIllusion - Neagtive attitude towards any night plans

By this definition, shouldn't I be also part of your fos?

No. I see you working out reasons why a plan might succeed or fail.

[PeregrineV]

Almost50 - more of a gut vibe warring with a town vibe
Vedith - More of that gut
MagnaofIllusion - Neagtive attitude towards any night plans
Nosferatu- Gutty gut gut gut

PLus, I feel like everyone else is more townie.

So you have no actual things you can point to other than 'gut' for three of your scum reads and your reasoning for me is "Negative attitude to Night plans" which isn't a scum-tell but exercising common sense given the quality of the plans?

Also - since pisskop and Lane are against Night plans also I'm struggling to see how this list would be formed by a Town thought process.

Lane's early posting really struck me as town, so havent felt any reason to move from that view.

pisskop might be scum, but his posting style always rubs me the wrong way. He'll be shot at some point, but if he is town, I expect he'll shoot at players he finds scummy, so don't really see the need to deprive him of that.

[PeregrineV]

pisskop might be scum, but his posting style always rubs me the wrong way. He'll be shot at some point, but if he is town, I expect he'll shoot at players he finds scummy, so don't really see the need to deprive him of that.

Classic fence-sitting example - maybe he's scum but his playstyle is grating so I'm not going to scum read him.

Also that seems to conflict with your statement that "everyone else looks more Town".

The second portion of this applies to every players - do you not expect any Town to

eventually

take shots at their scum-reads?

Sure do, eventually.

But the list was who I think might be scum out of everyone. So my list would be those I think more likely over anyone not listed.

[PeregrineV]

2 things:

1- Like, I would be REALLY pissed if MoI (of all) is the one stranded tonight!

2- That shos logic borders on a LAL PL on it's own. SK !=Town, and with another SK in play it certainly merits a totally different style of play.

Now

I

have seen Town!MoI in action, and I can confirm his play here is very likely his town play

. In fact, I'm almost certain this is Town!MoI. Seriously, if I had ELEVEN dayvig shots in line, I'd be gunning you all down one bu one until it's just me and him standing, and if the game still doesn't end THEN and ONLY THEN will I be convinced otherwise.

Which games were those?

Bump.

Stop being lazy. You were in Soccer Spirits, weren't you?

Nope.

[PeregrineV]

2 things:

1- Like, I would be REALLY pissed if MoI (of all) is the one stranded tonight!

2- That shos logic borders on a LAL PL on it's own. SK !=Town, and with another SK in play it certainly merits a totally different style of play.

Now

I

have seen Town!MoI in action, and I can confirm his play here is very likely his town play

. In fact, I'm almost certain this is Town!MoI. Seriously, if I had ELEVEN dayvig shots in line, I'd be gunning you all down one bu one until it's just me and him standing, and if the game still doesn't end THEN and ONLY THEN will I be convinced otherwise.

Which games were those?

Bump.

Stop being lazy. You were in Soccer Spirits, weren't you?

Nope.

Looked at it. You were scum, he was town.
You show up quite a bit in his ISO. Lots of back and forth, but he never votes you.

In the single game you played where he is town. But since you don't know what his scumplay looks like, your 873 still sounds bad.

[PeregrineV]

i've been neglecting this game too, sorry.

why is Vedith town, Nosferatu?

VOTE: PeregrineV.

someone ask me about reads, i find being forced to look back through the thread helps me sort my thoughts. i need to get my mind back into proper alignment before the day ends.

Why are you voting for PeregrineV, he is obviously town.

Who are you top 5 scumreads and why?

[PeregrineV]

perv still being useless?

Cuz hes still riding his rvs 'blind' vote.

No

and

Yes.

[PeregrineV]

I guess the player I most want to strand at this point is Vedith.

Vote: Vedith

[PeregrineV]

I guess the player I most want to strand at this point is Vedith.

Vote: Vedith

This is exactly something I told you NOT to do.

????

If you mean you specifically don't like my choice, then why not?

If you want mt to vote myself, Nos , or Shaddow, then no can do.

If you are worried about a no-strand, it's plurality + other rules, so someone will always be stranded unless nobody ever votes in a given day.

[PeregrineV]

There pretty much should be absolutely no voting.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine and Shaddow - I'd be very interested in hearing what you did last Night.

I barricaded.

[PeregrineV]

Peregrine and Shaddow - I'd be very interested in hearing what you did last Night.

Any interest in any other actions?

[PeregrineV]

I barricaded.

Seems like an interesting choice given you went out of your way to not really scum-hunt and stated explicitly "You vote at Night".

Yeah. And look at us now. 2 normal town, 2 masons (DO NOT CLAIM!), and 3 scum.

What was your action last night, and who are you three picks for scum?

[PeregrineV]

I barricaded as well btw.

I'm actually fine with peregrine barricading but I'm not as fine with his play overall. I'll talk about that more when I do my reads list.

Good. Would like to see that right away.

[PeregrineV]

And actually given this is LYLO I think Mason claiming should happen ASAP.

With 7 alive it reduces the viable strand options for every non-Town Mason left to 4 players, 3 of which have to be Mafia. It also narrows down the number of viable targets for non-Mason Town players to shoot at night. It is paramount we kill Mafia tonight and I'd not like for Town to misfire on Masons when scum already has a 50/50 shot of killing at least one of them with the Strongman anyway.

So, did you barricade last night?

Masons can claim after all players have given their 3 scum suspects.

[PeregrineV]

I barricaded due to lane's threat kill.

My kill pool is shos, Realeo, kraska

And your 3 scum choices?

[PeregrineV]

Shooters do not reveal targets yet, just shot or barricade.

[PeregrineV]

There pretty much should be absolutely no voting.

Why?

I shot kraska

Scum are real and perev and??

I like how perev doesn't really do anything and now Realeo wants to work with him like he's town after that was his vote at the end of yesterday

And....?

[PeregrineV]

I barricaded due to lane's threat kill.

My kill pool is shos, Realeo, kraska

And your 3 scum choices?

And yours? You keep talking about people giving their 3. Seems like youd have yours out there already, what are you waiting for?

Someone to ask.

Right now, thinking MoI, Infinity, pisskop.

[PeregrineV]

I like how perev doesn't really do anything and

now Realeo wants to work with him

like he's town after that was his vote at the end of yesterday

Ofcourse I want to work with him, it's lylo!

Look, the fact that my towny {Not_Chara,Kuroi,Almost50} are dead while Perev is still alive implies that

(1) either all three of them are shot by scum (how likely is this??)

(2) People actually scumreading them.

I mean, the fact that I am very off the popular opinion is a scary wake up call. Am I missing something? Am I being the idiot? Lane, we both played at Ari's Donner Party. At that game, I'm the only one who think that Jae_Reed can't be vig and Dunn must be scum. My scumhunting was briliant, but the underlying asumption is a disaster and I am the only one with the opinion. Wisdom of the crowd is not necesarrily correct, but it's a good starting point.

At D1, I worked with shos. Why not with pereV at D2? I am openist.

Did you barricade or shoot last night?

Your top 3 scum?

[PeregrineV]

Since Shaddow has answered I can now -

I shot Shaddow.

Still waiting for Peregrine to claim his suspects ...

So, I'm confused as to why you had to wait for me to answer for this. You shooting me and me not dying guarantees I'm not the Strongman, even if I was scum. And if I were scum, what sense would it make for me to lie about barricading?

Your 3 choices for scum?

[PeregrineV]

And actually given this is LYLO I think Mason claiming should happen ASAP.

With 7 alive it reduces the viable strand options for every non-Town Mason left to 4 players, 3 of which have to be Mafia. It also narrows down the number of viable targets for non-Mason Town players to shoot at night. It is paramount we kill Mafia tonight and I'd not like for Town to misfire on Masons when scum already has a 50/50 shot of killing at least one of them with the Strongman anyway.

So, did you barricade last night?

Masons can claim after all players have given their 3 scum suspects.

And your 3 scum?

[PeregrineV]

I can still make a reads list if people really want, but I don't want to put a lot of effort into something that might have to be changed. I'm not super confident in my reads right now, so I wouldn't be shocked if 1 or even 2 of my scum pool ended up being masons.

MoI is a PiE read. I have a hard time seeing pisskop and especially realeo or lane as scum.

I think once everyone has contributed, we can dissect the whys.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: perv[ v]

That is neither a vote, nor a list of 3 scum, nor the action you took last night.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: perv[ v]

That is neither a vote, nor a list of 3 scum, nor the action you took last night.

VOTE: pere v

Id tel you all to shoot magnus too

i just 1v1ed you perv

Cause it seems like you're town reading Realeo, and aren't considering Realeo/perev scum. It'd be easier if you had your reads out

Have you listed your top three yet? I'm guessing Pere/realeo from your last post, so who's your third?

Don't know. That's the "???"

Take a guess. You know there are three.

[PeregrineV]

Ignore pisskop quotes, trying to multi-task.

[PeregrineV]

VOTE: perv[ v]

That is neither a vote, nor a list of 3 scum, nor the action you took last night.

VOTE: pere v

Id tel you all to shoot magnus too

i just 1v1ed you perv

You need to more.

And an action.

[PeregrineV]

Fuvcking A.

TWO more, and an action.

[PeregrineV]

There pretty much should be absolutely no voting.

But why?

One town on town vote and the scum can pile on.

Once into night, esp.without a plan, it's game over and town loses.

[PeregrineV]

Masons, this is lylo.

we need to catch scumz. We should finish doing our reads and then the masons should claim.

after we all do read.

I may have missed it, but everyone has given reads except you and MoI.

[PeregrineV]

Cause it seems like you're town reading Realeo, and aren't considering Realeo/perev scum. It'd be easier if you had your reads out

Have you listed your top three yet? I'm guessing Pere/realeo from your last post, so who's your third?

Don't know. That's the "???"[/quote]

Take a guess. You know there are three.[/quote]

#3?

[PeregrineV]

There pretty much should be absolutely no voting.

But why?

One town on town vote and the scum can pile on.

Once into night, esp.without a plan, it's game over and town loses.

Would be pretty obvious who scum is. Even if they all were able to collaborate for a speed strand. There's 3. Highly doubtful.

Then you have 3 scum shooting the other 3 Townies. And Townies shooting the scum. Would be 50/50 who wins I guess. But ok I guess

Bad math. Way worse than 50/50.

[PeregrineV]

Need pisskop actions and 3 scum.

[PeregrineV]

There pretty much should be absolutely no voting.

But why?

One town on town vote and the scum can pile on.

Once into night, esp.without a plan, it's game over and town loses.

Would be pretty obvious who scum is. Even if they all were able to collaborate for a speed strand. There's 3. Highly doubtful.

Then you have 3 scum shooting the other 3 Townies. And Townies shooting the scum. Would be 50/50 who wins I guess. But ok I guess

Bad math. Way worse than 50/50.

Ok well if that happens, from the player list. Highest town shoots highest scum, lowest town shoots lowest scum. Middle on middle.

There, no more fear of voting

If all players are dead at the end of the night, the mafia wins.

[PeregrineV]

hell, i am suspecting most scum woul
which is why i dont accord value to people (perv) who demand a structure and dont share viable or 'genuine' conversations

Genuinely, what action did you take last night?

[PeregrineV]

Here's my dillema.

If I put a ladder where I put my strong town at top of the ladder, town lean at middle-high, scum lean at middle-low, strong scum at low. I would expect, most of the bottom part will be dead + 1 strong town will die (the strongman kill) .

But N1 night kill distribution is literallly wiping down the entire middle and bottom part, leaving the top part,but with a twist! PeregineV who is pretty much low is alive.

Why Pereginev is alive? Lynch bait???

@Infinity: If he's strongman, he know he is not shot since strongman doesn't have barricade.

the only reason any of the town are alive is because they are expected to be lynchbait, yes.

[PeregrineV]

genuinely, what response do you expect to yor crap question

I'd expect you to give 3 scumreads, like I've asked every other single player so far.

And what action you took last night.

[PeregrineV]

If you are asking, what is my D1 read minus the death, the scum are {Vedith, Shadow, peregineV}

If you are asking, what is my first impression D2 read, I don't even have one. That peregineV really made me anxious.

You posted before me and said already that I made you anxious. How can I make you anxious if you posted before me day2?

[PeregrineV]

Which means shadow is mason

How did you reach that conclusion?

[PeregrineV]

I forgot the information that there are 2 masons left. I shouldn't have assumed you could figure that out yourselves. I'm sorry

So you feel pisskops push on me is legitimate?

[PeregrineV]

I forgot the information that there are 2 masons left. I shouldn't have assumed you could figure that out yourselves. I'm sorry

So you feel pisskops push on me is legitimate?

How do you reach that conclusion?

You are calling Shadow a mason by excluding pisskop and I from being masons. And you seem to be doing it based on his push on me.

[PeregrineV]

No no, I didn't exclude you from being masons. Just not mason's together since pk wants to strand you. What are you not understanding. Does it make sense for one mason to try to strand another Mason? From any point of view? Why are you playing dumb?

It makes sense for masons to try to get reactions from other players.

[PeregrineV]

Excellent but irrelevant point. You didn't answer the question

Does it make sense for one mason to try to strand another Mason?

It makes sense for masons to try to get reactions from other players.

[PeregrineV]

*le sigh*

[PeregrineV]

Pere, Am I correct in assuming that the obvious is true?

Probably

[PeregrineV]

It's Monday. I'm here.

[PeregrineV]

@Pers- Can we get an udpdate on the OP? TIA!

I don't think Realeo is scums.

[PeregrineV]

If MoI is strongman, then he is claiming a shot his goon buddies took intseadh.

[PeregrineV]

Why would it hurt town to be as clear as possible

Because everyone is a viga

[PeregrineV]

I'll have to come back later with my choices of who to strand.

[PeregrineV]

Leaning towards stranding lane.

I don't think he is strongman, but I also can't rule him out as town.

@Lane-

your thoughts on being stranded?

[PeregrineV]

Leaning towards stranding lane.

I don't think he is strongman, but I also can't rule him out as town.

@Lane-

your thoughts on being stranded?

You idiot. Lane is either town or strongman.

MOI's play at D1 rules himself out of the strongman list.

If Vedith is strongman, than the question is why infinity starts to scumhunt at D2? Infinity can capitalize on the mysterius aura of Vedith at D1 to get himself stranded as strongman.

Why is lane town or strongman?

What play are you talking about (MoI)?

Does this mean you think infinity IS the strongman, Realeo?

[PeregrineV]

MOI's play at D1 rules himself out of the strongman list.

Scum have daytalk as per the setup. If he's scum, there's a chance he didn't actually shoot me but one of his buddies did, and he's just making the ploy. I'm not sure to what end that would serve, but there's zero

guarantee

he's Goon or Town.

Scum have daytalk as per the setup. If he's scum, there's a chance he didn't actually shoot me but one of his buddies did, and he's just making the ploy. I'm not sure to what end that would serve, but there's zero guarantee he's Goon or Town.

In other words you actually can't point to anything to would actually support your claim and are backing right off the "MoI is Strongman" I see.

I definitely think MoI is smart enough and wily enough to try to stage this. Today scum is all about NOT stranding the strongman in an effort to have both goons shoot. If we buy the "I shot the barricaded guy" claim, then we strand strongman-MoI and a town loss will follow.

[PeregrineV]

pooberries.

poo all the berries

Thoughts on stranding lane?

[PeregrineV]

Not voting for shaddowez.

[PeregrineV]

Not for releo either.

[PeregrineV]

Screw it- only so much overthinking it.

Vote: lane0168

[PeregrineV]

Yea no, the issue is that scum probs have daytalk and even if they dont they can take ques from each other to reinforce each other.

You not voting with the confirmed town is a declaration that you want me to put a bullet between your eyes.

This is why I don't care that you are a Mason with this sort of reasoning. Daytalk is irrelevant to the discussion. You and Pere may have decided you want Lane to be stranded but you haven't done anything in thread to show me why I shouldn't vote who I know to absolutely not be the Strongman and overwhelming likely to be scum to play "Follow the Masons".

As for threats - I'm going what is best the help assure that scum's ability to kill is minimized which helps provide you and Pere a degree of freedom as to what actions to take tonight. If that earns me a bullet from you so be it.

Do you think lane is the strongman? Or town?

[PeregrineV]

Again this is why I can't see you as Town. You are posting in weak generalities instead of actually thinking through implications of the game-state. Which I expect to come from Scum.

[PeregrineV]

3. Scum wins the game when they achieve a +1 Net Town kill over Scum kill Night result.

Go through this with a sample iteration, since I think your numbers are off.

[PeregrineV]

Go through this with a sample iteration, since I think your numbers are off.

There are 7 players alive. 4 Town and 3 Scum. Scum wins when Scum number equal Town numbers.

If every non-Strongman barricades the Strongman kills some Town player. At the end of Night it is 3-3. Scum wins.

If Town kills 1 Scum player and Scum kills 1 Town player Night ends at 3-2. Game continues.

If Town kills 1 Scum player and Scum kills 2 Town players Night ends at 2-2. Scum wins.

If Town kills 1 Scum player and 1 Town player and Scum kills 1 Town player Night ends at 2-2. Scum wins.

I could go on but every permutation is going to get the same results - as long as 1 additional Town player is killed above the number of scum players killed then scum wins.

The only way Town wins at this stage is to have Nights with net zero (or better) Town deaths.

It's not explicitly stated in the Role PMs but if Scum equal the number of living Town then Town can never Strand a scum player and scum are guaranteed to every Night at worst achieve a scorched Earth scenario which scum Win.

Yes. Basically, town has to coordinate their kills, and prevent the scum kills.

You know who the strongman is shooting.

Do the goons shoot or block, hoping town targets town?

[PeregrineV]

Ok I see all weekend has gone by and the funny game of "we aren't actually claiming Masons" has continued.

I'm not reading 6 sets of ISOs looking at interactions. 4 is the max I'm going to do. So until is see positive confirmation of "Yes, Player X and Player Y are Masons" from both X and Y consider me prod dodging.

are you claimin not to be mason

I am not ccing

@Peregrine and Shaddow

- what the hell were you playing at? Shadow got stranded because you were played stupid and coy instead of straightforwardly claiming.

You are able to draw incorrect conclusions from the smallest thing. I figured the fact that we did not hard claim would make it seem obvious. If you check me iso, and believed me to be mason, then Shadow was my obvious mason buddy.

Then that leaves you in the same place as us, is pisskop faking mason as town, or as scum?

But it didn't really matter.

We needed to strand a goon, then all town shoot all scum. Otherwise we lose.

And we did.

[PeregrineV]

Votecount 2.14 FINAL

shaddow (4) -

magna

,

lane, realeo, infinity

Stranded

lane (3) - peregrine, pisskop, shaddow

L-1

magna (0) -

Not voting (0) -

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

You have (expired on 2016-09-26 17:30:00) to submit your night action.

[PeregrineV]

Is there some reason perev and shadow basically let pk masquerade as a mason? Without scum reading that? Seems odd

Because he was town willing to take a kill a for a mason, leaving the real mason alive.

[PeregrineV]

You are able to draw incorrect conclusions from the smallest thing. I figured the fact that we did not hard claim would make it seem obvious. If you check me iso, and believed me to be mason, then Shadow was my obvious mason buddy.

Then that leaves you in the same place as us, is pisskop faking mason as town, or as scum?

But it didn't really matter.

No. That's crappy play. It was incumbent on you to be as clear as possible in the situation because playing herp-a-derp cloak and dagger games resulted in Shaddow getting stranded. Clarity on Day 2 was of utmost importance.

Why?

Play out how the game would have gone if shadow was confirmed mason by Pers.

[PeregrineV]

I'm still mystified how all the Town other than myself didn't understand that keeping Masons secret was absolutely pointless after Night 1.

Me too.

In the first run of this I had a cop and a doc, no masons. With barricading, doc seemed unnecessary, so I changed it to two masons. I figured the masons could shoot together, thereby overcoming a barricaded goon. I was therefore a little surprised that the masons barricaded N1. But, I figured they wanted to live to claim later, thereby giving conftowns. Made sense...but then they didn't claim.

If we had shot, pretty sure we would have both shot town, and then MoI would have killed Shadow anyway. There probably wouldn't have been a day2.

And confirming ourselves tells scum where to shoot.

[PeregrineV]

Lane gets stranded --> masons shoot me, MoI shoots lane, scum kill the masons.

Possible town win

Why would MoI shoot lane?

If we ask him to, like me and pisskop asked him to not vote shaddow, he wouldn't do it.

And besides, we don't know MoI isn't scum anyway, so we can't make a plan based on that.

[PeregrineV]

X_X
I'm going to pretend this game never happened
Also I need to stop quickly writing off players like reelo as insane town

I did the same.

[PeregrineV]

Any suggestions on the setup? Would you play it again?

It's obviously swingy, but I didn't expect 6 town deaths N1!

I ran this on another (non-mafia) site, and it was a huge town win. The scum team wasn't doing very good and they stranded scum the first three nights. That town was more conservative. A lot of the barricaded.

If a town player has a strong scumread for whatever reason they think, and they have a gun, they will shoot.

the game went pretty much as I expected.

Still fun though, and would always play again!!

[PeregrineV]

You are able to draw incorrect conclusions from the smallest thing. I figured the fact that we did not hard claim would make it seem obvious. If you check me iso, and believed me to be mason, then Shadow was my obvious mason buddy.

Then that leaves you in the same place as us, is pisskop faking mason as town, or as scum?

But it didn't really matter.

No. That's crappy play. It was incumbent on you to be as clear as possible in the situation because playing herp-a-derp cloak and dagger games resulted in Shaddow getting stranded. Clarity on Day 2 was of utmost importance.

I disagree. I said there should be no voting.

Later, when you believe me and pisskop to be masons, and said "Vote lane", you did not, and scum piled on and hammered town.

[PeregrineV]

I'm still mystified how all the Town other than myself didn't understand that keeping Masons secret was absolutely pointless after Night 1.

Me too.

In the first run of this I had a cop and a doc, no masons. With barricading, doc seemed unnecessary, so I changed it to two masons. I figured the masons could shoot together, thereby overcoming a barricaded goon. I was therefore a little surprised that the masons barricaded N1. But, I figured they wanted to live to claim later, thereby giving conftowns. Made sense...but then they didn't claim.

I know town would shoot itself. And narrow the pool.

Was hoping scum would lose one.

Instead, lots of town died, no scum died, and the lack of lynch became more of s detriment.

[PeregrineV]

So in the end, scum killed 4 people?

Town killed 6?

At least we took one of you with us!



good game though

[PeregrineV]

I disagree. I said there should be no voting.

Later, when you believe me and pisskop to be masons, and said "Vote lane", you did not, and scum piled on and hammered town.

You can disagree all you wish but that doesn't make you correct. You seem to be missing the point where you had given no reason to vote Lane over Shaddow given I knew Shaddow couldn't be the Strongman and Lane stood at worst a 1/3rd shot of being so. From my perspective I'm not taking at lowest a 33% chance of stranding the Strongman when I have a known 0% chance of stranding the Strongman in my scum reads.

The object of the game is not to just strand the not-strongman, but to also strand not-town.

Had you just claimed as was smart Shaddow would never have been in my scum-reads to begin with ...

Did you think I was a mason?

Did you think pisskop was a mason?

[PeregrineV]

- maybe have majority=lynch, plurality=strand

This one is interesting. I'd say try that.

[PeregrineV]

The object of the game is not to just strand the not-strongman, but to also strand not-town.

Yup. And your stupid decision not to clearly claim allowed just that.

Yes, we allowed YOU + the unknown-to-town scumteam to hammer by telling you NOT to vote him.

[PeregrineV]

Pv, why do you still think it was good to not claim mason? A mason was stranded. That proves it was a bad play. If shadow just claims mason like normal people claim mason, the strand would've been scum. What good came out of that plan?

It was 4:3, and you piled on a town voting town situation.

You knew it was town voting town.

No one else except MoI knew it was town voting town.

No other town voted for shaddow.

You guys honestly fucked yourselves. Sorry moi you got a raw deal

I disagree.

[PeregrineV]

The object of the game is not to just strand the not-strongman, but to also strand not-town.

Yup. And your stupid decision not to clearly claim allowed just that.

Yes, we allowed YOU + the unknown-to-town scumteam to hammer by telling you NOT to vote him.

Why do you think people should listen to you? Cause you're mason? That doesn't mean you're right. You know what he would've listened to? Even the scum would've listened if shadow was mason lol

Unless MoI thought shaddow was bussing lane and lane was bussing shadow, he had the choice to listen to the 2 claimed masons, or the 2 other guys, one of which was scum.

Keep saying he made the right choice, I'll keep disagreeing.

[PeregrineV]

You act like moi lost it cause he had a bad scum read. Or rather a good not strongman read.

But you guys are the one who let a mason get lynched, and all you said was no don't lynch him, as if that's supposed to hold any weight with anyone

I'll repeat it for you.

MoI is town.

he sees this

MoIscumread (3)- MoI, Scum or Town, Scum bussing
MasonScumread (3)- Mason, Mason, scum bussing

Not voting (1)- Scum or town

Then the hammer.


MoIscumread (4)- MoI, Scum or Town, Scum bussing, scum or town
MasonScumread (3)- Mason, Mason, scum bussing

Why do you still shoot the stranded guy?

Yes, if you do not use logic, then anything I said will be meaningless.

[PeregrineV]

No one else except MoI knew it was town voting town.

No other town voted for shaddow.

Don't be stupid.

I didn't know shaddow was Town. I wouldn't have fucking voted him if I did.

I thought he was scum BECAUSE you both stupidly chose to not properly claim and reviewing his play put him as very likely scum.

Unless MoI thought shaddow was bussing lane and lane was bussing shadow, he had the choice to listen to the 2 claimed masons, or the 2 other guys, one of which was scum.

[PeregrineV]

I disagree.

At the end of the day the fact that the Mod (who is by default independent) is saying your decision was a poor one (along with other Town players and even scum players) should tell you maybe you need to re-assess the quality of your claim decision.

In 99% of the cases, yes, masons claiming breaks the game.

With scum having 3 skills, one unblockable, and there being 4 town left, trying to make the scum second guess themselves was all we had.

[PeregrineV]

It wouldn't have been an OPTION if you just claimed. And if pk was scum? And I'm town? Still a good play? You had no way of knowing.

Why can't scum bus? He did think scum was bussing. He said I was probably scum with infinity

Why would scum bus? it's a purality.

[PeregrineV]

Who gets lynched if shadow is mason?

Shadow.

unless infinity hamemrs lane, or MoI hamemrs lane.

[PeregrineV]

Who gets lynched if shadow is mason?

Shadow.

unless infinity hamemrs lane, or MoI hamemrs lane.

No. Shadow doesn't get stranded. You're still playing dumb. That lost you the game.

As of vote count 2.6.

Spoiler:

Votecount 2.6

shaddow (1) - magna

Not voting (6) - lane0168, PeregrineV, Inifinity, shaddowez, Realeo, pisskop

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-26 18:30:00) remain until day end

Votecount 2.7

shaddow (2) - magna, infinity

infinity (1) - realeo

Not voting (4) - lane0168, PeregrineV, shaddowez, pisskop

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-26 18:30:00) remain until day end

Votecount 2.8

shaddow (2) - magna, infinity
infinity (1) - realeo
realeo (1) - lane

Not voting (3) - PeregrineV, shaddowez, pisskop

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-26 18:30:00) remain until day end

Votecount 2.9

shaddow (2) - magna, infinity
infinity (1) - realeo
realeo (1) - lane
lane (2) - peregrine, pisskop

Not voting (1) - shaddowez

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-26 18:30:00) remain until day end

Votecount 2.10

shaddow (3) - magna, infinity, lane

L-1

infinity (2) - realeo, shaddow
lane (2) - peregrine, pisskop

Not voting (0) -

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-26 18:30:00) remain until day end

Votecount 2.11

shaddow (2) - magna, lane
infinity (1) - shaddow
lane (2) - peregrine, pisskop
magna (1) - infinity

Not voting (1) - realeo

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-26 18:30:00) remain until day end

Votecount 2.12

shaddow (3) - magna, lane, realeo

L-1

infinity (1) - shaddow
lane (2) - peregrine, pisskop
magna (1) - infinity

Not voting (0) -

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-26 18:30:00) remain until day end

Votecount 2.13

shaddow (3) - magna, lane, realeo

L-1

lane (3) - peregrine, pisskop, shaddow

L-1

magna (1) - infinity

Not voting (0) -

With 7 alive, it takes 4 votes to strand.

(expired on 2016-09-26 18:30:00) remain until day end

lol...yes, I did. Keep telling yourself that.

[PeregrineV]

Literally all you had to do was claim for real. You didn't. You lost. I'll reword it.

Do you think shadow gets lynched if he claims mason? No. Never. Shadow was THE ONLY person we had a chance at stranding. And you let it happen lol.

But you're right. That was the right play

You would have won no matter what unless you really are that bad.

Besides, YOU stranded him, MoI shot him, YOU killed the rest of us.

But, I'll take credit for the town loss and the scum win.

[PeregrineV]

You're saying you did the right thing, based on someone else having wrong reads. That's wrong.

I still don't get what you gained from it.

Anyways. Scum dominated. We're the best of all time

You're welcome.

[PeregrineV]

Hi is the town fucktarded by not voting with the masons?

lets see.... 2 masons, 3 fucking scum, 3 poeple not voting with themasons

if the masons voted MoI or shadow, I would gladly vote with the masons...

What? You don't think it would be different if shadow was claimed mason, and I got stranded? Lol... What?

How would you be stranded?

[PeregrineV]

Well it's just a guess, but I don't think moi would still be voting for shadow.

Oh, he would have changed his vote to you?

Can you guarantee he wasn't scum?

[PeregrineV]

Besides

We don't have to win tonight. We're not going for broke ya know? But they probably are

[PeregrineV]

Just saw that the Micro queue needs mods. Suggestions for doing this as a micro? Just do 7:2 and keep everything the same?

Go for it. It would be fun to watch!!

[PeregrineV]

Well it's just a guess, but I don't think moi would still be voting for shadow.

Oh, he would have changed his vote to you?

Can you guarantee he wasn't scum?

Yes. He said he was considering it.

Yeah I can guarantee he wasn't scum.

And you could've guaranteed shadow wasnt scum. But you didn't

But you were, so it doesn;t really matter.

And could have been.

If the stalement continued, I would have probably appealed to Realeo to move to lane before appealing to MoI.

[PeregrineV]

Town!me would've switched to lane if shadow had claimed mason

Hell, even scum!me would've

Why would you do that when you could picked a vanity wagon, not hammered shaddow, and he would have been stranded anyway?