Mini 1834: Biker Wars: Blood in the Streets (Game over!)

[Parama]

VOTE: kuribo

my body is ready

[Parama]

I mean yeah mathematically odds are in favor that at least one scum is on the wagon so far :V

[Parama]

eagersnake's posting comes off really stiff tbh. I can't tell if the "reasoning" in 7 is serious or a joke and the "oh noes" just feels rlly forced

[Parama]

eagersnake's posting comes off really stiff tbh. I can't tell if the "reasoning" in 7 is serious or a joke and the "oh noes" just feels rlly forced

I can't tell if you're serious or just RVS bantering.

But I am wondering why aren't you voting me. That seems like a really good reason to vote someone, especially on page one.

i can't tell if it's posting style or just alignment-indicative.

[Parama]

eagersnake's posting comes off really stiff tbh. I can't tell if the "reasoning" in 7 is serious or a joke and the "oh noes" just feels rlly forced

I can't tell if you're serious or just RVS bantering.

But I am wondering why aren't you voting me. That seems like a really good reason to vote someone, especially on page one.

yeah I'm pretty sure this is town

You must be really good a townhunting. Care to give insight? How can you tell that it's town?

it literally has nothing to do with voting patterns or anything it's basic math omg why is this even a discussion

[Parama]

wHYYYYYYY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME MAFIASCUM

[Parama]

got my answer looking at the town games. posting style. god that's gonna bug me then.

[Parama]

OH farside went from voting eager for a weak basis to sheeping his logic against me (that he himself didn't consider worth a vote, mind you, while also calling out literally the same exact thing?)
is that why farside is calling him a hypocrite
is that why you're bloodthirsty grey

p-edit: eager i only read like the first pages of the games tbh but that explains things a little, alright

[Parama]

alright, so you don't care he did the same thing you're taking issue with me doing?

[Parama]

why are you asking when you already know the answer.

[Parama]

See what I saw was you read fence sitting in the post

in what context is pointing out a thing i didn't like but had reason to not vote for (see: follow-up post) fence-sitting?
if they are completely different things given context (like you're claiming) then why did you call eager a hypocrite anyways?

[Parama]

If I know someone is scum, why not tunnel them?

but how do you

know

someone is scum

for the record, i completely disagree with farside, tunneling is always fine and not alignment indicative in any way

but you don't

know

someone is scum

[Parama]

Hey ari
I kind of don't like his "maybe it's playstyle" comment, feels unnaturally early to say something like that

i mean, i was right on the money with that one

[Parama]

elaborate

[Parama]

@Parama I'm bringing the 2 quotes to compare with.
You start with the forced comment then fence sitting with is it this or that, but not questioning it.
Where eager comes off more bantering to your xomment.
I was calling him a hypocrite for not voting you, while saying he says it seems like a good reason to vote.

>forced comment
subjective and untrue

>fence sitting
or you know, it was absolutely in earnest ???

>not questioning it
???????

>eager comes off more bantering to your comment
i don't understand what this sentence means ????

also, you're calling him a hypocrite like it's a good thing? do you understand hypocrite is a word with inherently negative connotations?

also, what two questions. please point out which questions you want me to respond to if you think i dodged them. you can't accuse me of dodging questions when you don't tell me what questions i'm supposedly dodging.

because i'm a nice guy though i'm going to dig for the questions myself.

Do you think GreyICE noticed?

what the hell kind of question is this. i literally don't understand the question. this is why i did not respond before.

i can't find a second question. from you or anyone else in the thread, even. i try to do you a favor and you lied to me. you lied to me farside. why.

[Parama]

i mean, i decisively responded to the other questions in that post already.

let me just point out the hypocrisy of yelling at me to answer questions, then ignoring all the questions i have in return by dismissing them as "a bunch of questions that were pretty much just to ask" (i know what you're trying to say here but this sentence doesn't parse well either???)

yeah. ok. if that's the game you wanna play.

VOTE: farside22

done wasting my time with scum, alright

[Parama]

btw. i know what banter means on its own. i have no bloody clue what you meant by it in that context.
i still have no clue what you were asking with the grey queston either.

ok really done now

[Parama]

@aristo to be fair, i never had a "stance" on eager to withdraw in the first place. i was just voicing a thought or two about his play. for what it's worth, i don't have a particularly strong read either way right now but how easily everyone is writing him off as town is setting off flags. and i really don't like him continuing to purse the whole omgus thing even after like three people screamed at him that it was literally jsut basic frickin math. and the constant self-referencing of tunneling almost starts to sound like an excuse for bad play after a while.

omg. i'm convincing myself of an eager scumread again, even looking past all the clunkiness of his posts. i like 102 though.

actually really worried about greyice in this game tbh. it's in-character for him to say very little about why someone is scum but i haven't heard a peep about either kuribo or farside and the "help me lynch farside and i won't lynch you" thing is just incredibly skeevy

also thanks kuribo i was wondering if i was the only one who couldn't make a lick of sense of farside's posts but it's a shame you seem to have lost mine in translation as well, they're pretty boss posts

[Parama]

my least favorite thing is when i click submit post and the site bugs out and takes me to the first post of the thread and i dread for a second that my entire post was lost but then i click back and hit submit again and everything is fine

mafiascum is such a buggy site though, between that and the quote bug, christ

[Parama]

last game you died before i got to make requests and i'm still salty

p-edit: also yeah wouldn't disagree with you, though i'm mostly just laughing over her going "hypocrisy is a pet peeve" immediately followed by being a hypocrite
haven't really been able to get any sensible stuff out of her though

[Parama]

Asking if the comment was in earnest, basically he wants a get out of jail card for free.

that actually wasn't a question tbh. you can say it wasn't in earnest, and i can say it was (the truth btw), arguing with it will get nobody anywhere

While he didn't respond to a single question I've asked yet.

when did it turn from "two questions" (which was not even true) to "not a single question". exaggerate much

It's the I'm going to ask questions with your question scum move.

so you can ask me questions as much as you want, but the moment i ask them in return, i'm scum. this is why arguing with you is a waste of my time, you're a complete brick wall who's never wrong and thus i can never be right.

[Parama]

@aristo to be fair, i never had a "stance" on eager to withdraw in the first place. i was just voicing a thought or two about his play. for what it's worth, i don't have a particularly strong read either way right now but how easily everyone is writing him off as town is setting off flags. and i really don't like him continuing to purse the whole omgus thing even after like three people screamed at him that it was literally jsut basic frickin math. and the constant self-referencing of tunneling almost starts to sound like an excuse for bad play after a while.

omg. i'm convincing myself of an eager scumread again, even looking past all the clunkiness of his posts. i like 102 though.

actually really worried about greyice in this game tbh. it's in-character for him to say very little about why someone is scum but i haven't heard a peep about either kuribo or farside and the "help me lynch farside and i won't lynch you" thing is just incredibly skeevy

also thanks kuribo i was wondering if i was the only one who couldn't make a lick of sense of farside's posts but it's a shame you seem to have lost mine in translation as well, they're pretty boss posts

That reads pretty fake.

notice how i can literally do nothing to argue against this, because it's completely subjective. i can go "no it isn't" but again, that's going to go nowhere
it's absolutely dismissive. farside is getting pissy at me for not responding to things, but then she's trying to handwave everything I say in return with "no you didn't"

[Parama]

i don't like him voting artisto for "trying to lay low" when he's pretty much doing the same thing.
"trying to lay low" is not really an accusation that has any ground to stand on less than 24 hours after gamestart anyways
i don't have any other thoughts at the moment.

[Parama]

you misunderstand.
I don't particularly care if farside answers all my questions.
I do however care when she demands of me to do it then doesn't do the same in return. cause that's hypocrisy.

[Parama]

also yes that looks like the only reason you're voting aristo.
aside from "making friends" which is... not a reason at all tbh
maybe that's not your full reason, but I'm not psychic so I can't tell

[Parama]

@ckd I don't think making friends is necessarily alignment indicative. for some people it depends on playstyle. it doesn't look to me like aristo is really trying to buddy anyone really, just has a pretty calm personality

[Parama]

@ckd keyword is "all" but admittedly my phrasing was bad. I do care if farside does or doesn't answer my questions. but my bigger concern is the hypocrisy

[Parama]

@farside yes there were three questions in that posts. But I'd previously responded to the other two. So I only added a response to the one.
And you definitely didn't answer all my questions. Instead of responding to the question about your bantering comment and clarifying what you meant you went "I don't need to define bantering". You didn't answer the "in earnest" question at all, outright ignored it. And you made blanket statement over all my questions in really dismissive language.

[Parama]

@eager: but you don't know he's town, and if he's not you're giving scum a free vote.

for the record, UT is bleeding town all over the place

[Parama]

phone posting sucks btw but I love you all too much to keep you waiting

[Parama]

@mod can you sent out a game start pm to rach

would also love to hear more than nothing from snarky as well

pedit: so questions only matter now if they're alignment-indicative.
how do you define that?

[Parama]

Parama, do you think farside22 is scum? If so, why?

yes. she's guilty of practically everything she's accusing me of, and any counterargument I make is met with dismissal or attempts to discredit me.
like literally take her post here for example.

Yes.
He's has made a lot of mountains out of molehill.
The whole point he has so far is just to argue. Not trying to figure alignment out at all.

she's making mountains out of plenty of molehills (like, me not answering one of about five questions)
and accusing me of just trying to argue? yes, i am arguing. and what it's doing is helping me read farside better, and helping me get better reads on the other players getting involved in the discussion.
the more i get you to talk, the more i and other players have to read you with, y'know

[Parama]

These are both giving me bad vibes. The first looks like a shitty distancing attempt and the second looks like scum throwing out a line hoping to get vote advice.
CKD prob scum

first: i literally do not see this at all and completely disagree.
second: i literally do not see this at all and don't even understand the argument being made. i know what you're getting at but i have no clue how it relates at all to that post.

Circle Jerking.
I love it! XD

and this still looks like he is trying to make friends.

yeah, i'll definitely give you this one, 192 rubbed me the wrong way but i can't put my finger on why.
why was this post made?

But, if I think you're town, how could making you a pseudo-DV be a bad thing?

Because you're absolving yourself of responsibility for your actions

See this shit. This shit is scumfuck. Like "responsibility for your actions"? What the fuck does that mean? Remember my old signature - "Victory requires no explanation, defeat allows none"? Town fucking Kuribo would take a double vote any day of the week and use it to ram more pain down the neckhole of any scumfuck dumb enough to fuck with him. This is some pussy ass terrified Kuribo who wants Eager Snake to be responsible for who we lynch today. I don't give a flying fuck if DrMyShotty gets credit for today's lynch, I want a fucking scumlynch, and you want to diddle yourself over whose responsible for a mislynched.

Fucking die in a fire you scumfuck

your logic starts with "kuribo is scum" and uses that to come to the conclusion that "kuribo is scum".
if you don't start with that assumption, kuribo's post is totally freakin' sensible and pretty spot-on.

i'm breaking this post here because i'm already starting to give myself quote stripe sickness

[Parama]

@RachMarie: Don't worry, I'm not scum this game, like I was when I played with you in Horoscopes. So don't bring your "last-game-together-he-fooled-me" bias in here, it'd be a waste of your time

jeeeesus christ this is going to be a bloody long game

VOTE: farside22

the hell is this about.
i'm not letting you get away with an unsubstantiated vote, even if it's on scum

omg the [wifom] posts are kklnngg krrggc ooaahnn aaahghg kill me
@mod can i have a freakin dayvig please

Town {Cakez, GreyICE, UT}
~~
Scumlean {eagerSnake}
Scum {farside, Parama}

Where I'm at atm

this says to me that either 1. you haven't read the game thread at all or 2. you have, but don't actually care about processing any of it.

now then.
why am i scum.
why is farside scum.
do you think we are scum together.

the three key questions that i expect a solid response to, in your own words.
i'd legitimately believe that you just looked at the votecount and put the two top wagons in the scumpile without giving an ounce of thought. i'm pretty sure that's actually what happened. i'd love to see proof otherwise, though.

I think both farfar and Parama are town ^_^
Gimme ur vote(and soul) snake

I've made up my mind that it's not TvT so good luck convincing me otherwise

making the assumption that you think farside is the scum between us. substantiate it.

& you're not getting my vote because I don't hard TR you and disagree with your read on that interaction

[Parama]

farside, i just went and checked, you haven't asked me a single question in the past 5 pages. what questions am i dodging. they literally don't exist.

on the other hand, you have not responded to this question:

pedit: so questions only matter now if they're alignment-indicative.
how do you define that?

which i would love to have a response to.

[Parama]

See what I saw was you read fence sitting in the post

in what context is pointing out a thing i didn't like but had reason to not vote for (see: follow-up post) fence-sitting?
if they are completely different things given context (like you're claiming) then why did you call eager a hypocrite anyways?

this is a response to the first two questions.

what i read: rhetorical questions that implied you thought the context surrounding eager's post was different than mine.
which you confirmed by following up that you thought i was fence-sitting and he was just foot-in-mouth.
it should be clear that i did not find the context different enough to make a difference.
but that you called him a hypocrite makes it seem like you also didn't find the context different enough.

i know you've explained it like five times but i still have no bloody clue what the greyice question is asking.

My question about grey was again to see if Parama thought grey was doing anything or had a view there on just her blanket comments.

like seriously, what is this? i'd love to answer your question, but i just have no clue what it is.

for the record: you literally just dodged my question, again.

pedit: so questions only matter now if they're alignment-indicative.
how do you define that?

again,

Parama, do you think farside22 is scum? If so, why?

yes. she's guilty of practically everything she's accusing me of

i could probably continue to argue with you using quotes of stuff i've already said in-thread, because kraska is pretty on point that you're just repeating the same stuff over and over, why even bother with the pretense.

let's have a quote-off farside. i'm ready.

[Parama]

so, again, for the record:

you are going to dodge my question.

[Parama]

pedit: so questions only matter now if they're alignment-indicative.
how do you define that?

you literally cannot dismiss questions as not alignment indicative until you answer this question. which you just dismissed as not alignment indicative.
basically: you are spewing bs in order to avoid having to answer anything, but get pissy when i don't respond to one of your questions.
what if; i think your question about greyice isn't alignment indicative? what does that mean? i have no bloody clue either ahaha but i can use it an excuse now because you won't explain your own excuse, so why the hell should i?

[Parama]

for what it's worth i think grey has a screw loose with his latest argument

[Parama]

pedit: so questions only matter now if they're alignment-indicative.
how do you define that?

you literally cannot dismiss questions as not alignment indicative until you answer this question. which you just dismissed as not alignment indicative.
basically: you are spewing bs in order to avoid having to answer anything, but get pissy when i don't respond to one of your questions.
what if; i think your question about greyice isn't alignment indicative? what does that mean? i have no bloody clue either ahaha but i can use it an excuse now because you won't explain your own excuse, so why the hell should i?

Again I did awnser your questions.

where
did
you
answer
this
question

point to it.
right this instant.

[Parama]

farside, it's literally the same question i keep quoting ad nauseam. how are you missing this.

[Parama]

says the person not voting kuribo

[Parama]

okay, but you're gonna have to fill me in on why

i haven't seen you say anything about kuribo in the past.

[Parama]

sircakez:

that is not a case. that is literally spam. why are you spamming

[Parama]

congrats, you figured out how quoting works, sircakez

what about it?

[Parama]

sircakez/eager interaction (paraphrased):
sircakez: (dumb stupid nonsensical meta argument)
eager: actually, i only made one post where i said the wagon was NAI
sircakez: (spam) (kek)
eager: yes, those are definitely posts i made
sircakez: yeah i quoted stuff but didn't make an actual point or case
sircakez: he made plenty of posts about the kuribo wagon, even though the point i made was that he kept talking about how the wagon was nai, but i'm going to ignore that
eager: (literally points out the same thing i'm pointing out in this post)
sircakez: waaah discrediting waaahh he called himself lynchbait

i think that's the gist of it?
i don't actually think eager's starting argument was really that strong but sircakez' response to it and response to the votes was absolutely awful.

also stop freaking quoting that broken post or at least attempt to fix the tags omg it's driving me insane

[Parama]

i dislike eager continuing to refer to himself as lynchbait.

farside votes cakes and then immediately goes and lists the reasons why she thinks I'm scum. whereas the argument she makes against sircakez is comparatively brief.
by the way, this is the question you need to answer, not the ones you quoted. stop freaking lying. i literally could not make this more clear. you are intentionally ignoring this question.

pedit: so questions only matter now if they're alignment-indicative.
how do you define that?

where
did
you
answer
this
question

point to it.
right this instant.

gear shows up and posts nothing but useless garbage masquerading as content.
like seriously look at this: 362
how the hell do you get bussing out of that??? you only freaking called this bussing so you'd have a justification to lynch them both, probably set up a mislynch if one of them does flip scum

eager, why would you vote kuribo over sircakez at all. the softclaim is bad, sure, but not really scummy.

kraska 377 ignoring someone is literally the worst thing you can do, what the hell. i think farside is scum. why the HELL would i ignore her? that lets her get away.

if you want my thoughts on the whole ignore button fiasco grey is pushing: literally means nothing. plenty of other reasons farside is scum, but that ain't one of them.

@eager: sircakez is probscum, but farside is practically flipped scum fmpov. i keep my vote where the best candidate for scum is.

[Parama]

it's not that you didn't, it's that you even considered it in the first place that baffles me.

[Parama]

i don't really disagree but the constantly pointing it out is the issue i have here.

[Parama]

you guys are seriously going to let farside continue to get away with being a massive hypocrite then?

also lol @ "scumreads cakez but doesn't vote him"
again, I vote my strongest scumread, always.
I am not pointing out my concerns with eager to look townie.

I am pointing them out because they are legitimately concerning and the way everyone is willing to brush them under the rug is even more concerning. it's called... scumhunting. Heard of it?

[Parama]

@aristo to be fair, i never had a "stance" on eager to withdraw in the first place. i was just voicing a thought or two about his play. for what it's worth, i don't have a particularly strong read either way right now but how easily everyone is writing him off as town is setting off flags. and i really don't like him continuing to purse the whole omgus thing even after like three people screamed at him that it was literally jsut basic frickin math. and the constant self-referencing of tunneling almost starts to sound like an excuse for bad play after a while.

omg. i'm convincing myself of an eager scumread again, even looking past all the clunkiness of his posts. i like 102 though.

nobody cared when I posted this. Why is me pointing out issues with eager only just now becoming a problem?

[Parama]

I don't think I've ever expressed a townread on eager for what it's worth. I don't particularly think he's a strong scum read or a good lynch at the moment. But how easily he's being written off as town and how people are attacking anyone who questions his supposed towniness is just setting off all sorts of flags, and I especially dislike his attitude about it. "Look at me I'm so town that I can point out all the scummy things I do but if anyone else points them out it's suddenly a problem"

[Parama]

honestly, more.than anything, what I feel is happening is that eager is letting things get to his head a little and scum (esp. Farside, who has been incredibly eager to buddy eager) are using that to their advantage.

anyways I actually need to get back to work now

[Parama]

honestly i'm gonna say I agree with 421.

423 is an awful response, too. it's like a "come at me bro, nobody is gonna believe you."

still of half a mind that eager is town being buddied by scum, but it may be just obfuscating as well.

[Parama]

I swear to God Cakez is either Scum - or Town wasting time doing absolutely nothing pro-town, in fact he's doing anti-town play and it would not be a loss for us either way

I would be fine with a lynch, hell I'd be fine hammering him myself right now. He did it to himself.

this is even worse. "he's either scum or bad town. but he's only bad town because he's suspecting me. i want to lynch him regardless of his aligment."

427 is the acceptable response to this.

[Parama]

Alright I'm going to spoiler quote every single interaction between me and Cakez so you can read it and make up your mind for yourself.

or you could freaking analyze it yourself.

literally doing the same thing cakez did is just going to make me dislike you as much.

instead of leaving other players to make the case, analyze the interactions yourself and tell us why they make sircakez scum, because i'm definitely not going to try and piece it together myself, and i don't know anyone else who is.

on the other hand,

Hey Parama eager spammed quotes does that mean he's scum now?

this is an awful way of putting the same point i just made. the sarcasm just comes off as extremely bitter.

[Parama]

Her posts are very vague and hard to read, making it easy as scum to misrepresent her.

okay, here's an exercise for you:

you think i'm the scum between me and farside, which implies you think i'm misrepresenting her.

point to a few examples of me doing so.

[Parama]

Now that you know, you can ask yourself: Do GreyICE, Parama really believe the arguments they are making against you? Or are they just scum trying to filler up with easy arguments, and push an easy lynch?

do you believe this yourself? how do you judge whether or not someone else believes arguments they're making?

[Parama]

What is your confidence level on this, GreyICE? The confidence level tells you how sure you can be. It is expressed as a percentage. The 95% confidence level means you can be 95% certain; the 99% confidence level means you can be 99% certain. Etc.

i mean you're aware mafia is a game where you rarely ever have hard proof of anything, right? the literal only hard proof is mod-confirmed stuff. sometimes you just have to go with your gut, even if you're not extremely certain.

[Parama]

I swear to God Cakez is either Scum - or Town wasting time doing absolutely nothing pro-town, in fact he's doing anti-town play and it would not be a loss for us either way

I would be fine with a lynch, hell I'd be fine hammering him myself right now. He did it to himself.

this is even worse. "he's either scum or bad town. but he's only bad town because he's suspecting me. i want to lynch him regardless of his aligment."

427 is the acceptable response to this.

Any times someone says that I said " I want to lynch him regardless of his alignment " they are 100% of the time misrepresenting my words and more likely scum than not. I never said I don't care about his alignment, he is more likely scum than town in my eyes.

you said he could either be scum or bad-town. do you deny this?
you said that if he was town it would not be a loss for the town to lynch him. do you deny this?
you said you'd be fine with lynching him. do you deny this?

in this specific post, you did not lean one way or the other on whether he's scum or town.
using your own bit here: how confident are you that he's scum?

[Parama]

eager: you can't dismiss an argument just by calling it misrep. just fyi.

"if he keeps pursuing me further, i will get him lynched"

literally omgus

[Parama]

farside:

eager is intentionally refusing to answer questions. your thoughts?

p-edit: why do you believe that?

[Parama]

@eager: i don't think my questions are filler or misrep. it's up to you to show they are, if you truly believe they are. do you truly believe they are?

[Parama]

1. but in the (10%) scenario where he's just badtown, would you be fine with lynching him?
2. alright, fair enough i guess. i don't find it a particularly productive post but i understand where you're coming from.
3. who's the scum misrepresenting farside then? the way you called her lynchbait implies that you think someone is doing it, at the very least.
4. suffice to say that's not evidence. i totally understand going with your gut but tangible arguments rather than gut feelings are what make cases strong.
5. the numbers are completely arbitrary, then. and town can be wrong. but w/e
6. i'd say something here but it'd just be repeating the question in (1)

[Parama]

Is this a real question?

I obviously would be hurt if he flipped town, as that bring scum closer to their win-con and me further from mine.

Did you really expect a different answer here?

I swear to God Cakez is either Scum - or Town wasting time doing absolutely nothing pro-town, in fact he's doing anti-town play

and it would not be a loss for us either way

so now reconcile these two statements, because they look like different stances to me.

[Parama]

can someone explain to me what farside is trying to say in 493? like? any of it?

[Parama]

@eager (and really everyone):

does it look to you like farside is actively trying to find scum? what i see is her trying to constantly steer the conversation back to her favorite targets (me and greyice) and mostly playing reactionary.

[Parama]

496 comes off as maybe a little survivalist but on the whole i guess i'm satisfied with that answer.

@farside: here's something productive that you can answer any way you want. there are a few players who haven't been discussed very much at all; kraska, Rach, and UT come to mind the most. do you have any opinion or read on these three right now?

[Parama]

fence sitting
or you know, it was absolutely in earnest ???

>not questioning it
???????

first one was arguing against your argument. you claimed i was fence-sitting. i legitimately did not know if it was one or the other. that's not fence-sitting. it's earnest.
second one was not understanding what you meant. i still don't.

wanna answer my question now?

Hey parama: I'm still waiting for you to explain the point of these questions.

pedit: so questions only matter now if they're alignment-indicative.
how do you define that?

where
did
you
answer
this
question

point to it.
right this instant.

the worst part is that
1. you refuse to answer it
2. you claimed you'd already answered it, but refuse to point to where you did
3. you instead opted to question the importance of the question instead of, you know, just taking the time to answer it, even though you'd supposedly already answered it

meanwhile i'm over here having to build a freaking pyramid of this one question just because someone is continuing to be a massive hypocrite. i actually think this question is really important because without answering it you can continue to be vague about what is or isn't alignment indicative and thus what is or isn't important to you. i'm forcing you to take a stance, and you're outright refusing to do so. do you understand why i care about this question so much now? do you see how it is important?

[Parama]

yes, you literally asked how my question about what "alignment-indicative" is to you... is alignment indicative.

which is not an answer. it's a freaking circular answer that begs its own bloody question.

[Parama]

let me reword that question without changing the meaning at all:
why did you think that was intentional fence-sitting instead of earnest confusion?

^this is asking how you think about a specific post.

[Parama]

while i'm thinking about it:
farside, why did you only answer the question after eager asked it?
what about him asking it suddenly made it alignment-indicative to you? that's your criteria for answering a question, in your own words; any other question isn't important. you previously said the question wasn't alignment indicative. so why did you answer it now, all of the sudden?

[Parama]

hey farside:
36, 40, 42

this is a direct follow-up discussion to 21

do you still argue that i was fence-sitting on the issue, when it was pretty cleanly resolved in the last post there? your fence-sitting claim came after this exchange, for the record

[Parama]

And Because I said the same fucking thing about the question 5 fucking times too

i can objectively say you didn't.

if you want to clam up that's fine, but silence doesn't suit you well.
it's clear that you know you can't win and don't want to make yourself look worse trying, though.

[Parama]

sure, i exaggerate sometimes. i mean, literally, you can't yell in a text post because text posts have no audio component to them. the point was that you were making a big deal about me not answering a question. which is metaphorically like yelling. it's a literary technique, i think

what does me exaggerating something pretty trivial have to do with my alignment?

want to answer my other questions i just asked, in the meantime? 523? 532?

[Parama]

while i'm thinking about it:
farside, why did you only answer the question after eager asked it?
what about him asking it suddenly made it alignment-indicative to you? that's your criteria for answering a question, in your own words; any other question isn't important. you previously said the question wasn't alignment indicative. so why did you answer it now, all of the sudden?

No.
I felt my responses before were self explanatory

how is "no" an answer to any of these questions? none of them were yes/no questions.

[Parama]

Sure I can say maybe you were confused, maybe you were fence sitting.
Either one.

you say this now, but this isn't what you've been saying before.

you asserted that you believed it to be fence-sitting. i'm not letting you go back on your stance when it suddenly becomes convenient.

See what I saw was you read fence sitting in the post

, where frankly he reads as foot in mouth.

You start with the forced comment

then fence sitting with is it this or that

, but not questioning it.

The first one I don't see his issue since the sum of it is

he make a fence sitting comment

and what I say was eager making a tongue in-cheek comment back with the fence post from Parama.

The other 2 implies scumminess.

The can't tell leaves it as fence sitting.

Did he ask you to explain?
No

and you specifically say you do not think it's confusion:

Your post reads more as a scum lean using words like post feeling forced and stiff.

I don't see confusion with that in the implied sentence.

[Parama]

Take away "no." And I think you should understand

okay. she thought the answers she already gave were self-explanatory.

...

why did she answer again anyways, after you asked it?

i still don't think that's an answer to the specific question at hand. i'm not asking her why she didn't answer me. i'm asking her why she did answer eager, in spite of refusing to answer me.

[Parama]

this is such a tiresome argument that i'm sure nobody is going to read, christ.

[Parama]

i could do a summarization post, sure.

1. farside is being hypocritical and dismissive. she hounds me to answer every last question she has, no matter how insignificant, but when i ask questions in return, she will handwave it as "not important" or "not alignment-indicative" or outright claim to have answered it even when she hasn't; she's dodging questions, the exact thing she's so keen to accuse me of. this has been the ongoing problem throughout and the original basis of my vote.

2. farside is constantly changing her story; first she refused to answer my question about what an alignment-indicative question is, then she claimed she had already answered it (later claiming that the refusal to answer was the answer in of itself), and then when eager later asked her the same question, she gave a proper answer, as if i had never asked it to begin with. she asserted 4 times that a specific post was fence-sitting directly and one further time that she did not think it was confusion. which she later completely backpedals on to say "well, it could've been fence-sitting or confusion". yes, town can contradict themselves. but this is outright lying whenever it's convenient.

3. farside is not actively scumhunting. she voted me on page two, and proceeded to do very little else other than argue with me and try to paint every single thing i do as scummy; almost like she just picked a target on a small whim and spent the rest of her time trying to justify it. she's done a lot of defending of eager that very strongly comes off as buddying. she's made a few interactions with other players, small questions that don't lead anywhere and that she doesn't seem to get any information out of. she gets into a headbutting contest with greyice over the ignore button comment but that was completely reactionary. she's made a few unexplained reads lists that are essentially meaningless. she threw a vote on cakez when the momentum shifted in that direction based only on prompting from kraska. she only justifies this after the vote, and only briefly. for the record, despite all the back-and-forth with me, this is where her vote still currently stands. she has a scumread on aristo that she's literally never said a word about, she's barely interacted with him and none of the interactions have implied that she suspects him in any way. none of this suggests a player who is interested in actively solving the game. she is reacting to the two players attacking her, occasionally throwing out a comment or two about other events in the game, and putting up reads lists to give off the guise of scumhunting, without any of the effort.

i haven't provided any specific links here because that'd be a huge amount of clutter, but aside from the point-by-point summarization in #3 of farside's posts thus far i have said all of this before.

i will be honestly flabbergasted if farside flips anything other than scum.

[Parama]

Farside/Snake/CKD scumteam
EZ
Farside's argument with Parama looks awful, and 556 is pretty convincing
Gear your GreyIce vote sucks

this is rancid garbage. eager's interactions with farside don't make sense as scum. she's trying to buddy the hell out of him and he's not dumb enough to fall for it.
also i don't see where ckd factors into anything here

567 is fine even if ut shouldn't be dismissing my post like that

the more people constantly dismiss farside's play the more i believe in my scumread tbh

[Parama]

I will not be prodded.

yeah but you also need to, y'know,

do anything at all

[Parama]

like dude you freakin' modded the undertale game you should know full well i don't let anyone get away with the kind of crap you're trying to pull here

[Parama]

h o w

I literally already explained why that question is important

[Parama]

last part of 507

too much of a pain to quote it on phone

[Parama]

@everyone hard read the past 4-5 pages, it's not drivel

I did.
It's, to use a new term, "circle jerking" and I don't think anyone got anything out of it, including those involved.

this is exactly the kind of dismissive attitude scum would love to take here. you don't have to weigh in on anything when you can just lump it all together like this

[Parama]

yeah I was gonna say

[Parama]

having 5 people not voting isn't helping.

can y'all please take some stances already

[Parama]

it's not an obsession, it's a scumread

[Parama]

okay then, read just this one post then, instead of all of them

i could do a summarization post, sure.

1. farside is being hypocritical and dismissive. she hounds me to answer every last question she has, no matter how insignificant, but when i ask questions in return, she will handwave it as "not important" or "not alignment-indicative" or outright claim to have answered it even when she hasn't; she's dodging questions, the exact thing she's so keen to accuse me of. this has been the ongoing problem throughout and the original basis of my vote.

2. farside is constantly changing her story; first she refused to answer my question about what an alignment-indicative question is, then she claimed she had already answered it (later claiming that the refusal to answer was the answer in of itself), and then when eager later asked her the same question, she gave a proper answer, as if i had never asked it to begin with. she asserted 4 times that a specific post was fence-sitting directly and one further time that she did not think it was confusion. which she later completely backpedals on to say "well, it could've been fence-sitting or confusion". yes, town can contradict themselves. but this is outright lying whenever it's convenient.

3. farside is not actively scumhunting. she voted me on page two, and proceeded to do very little else other than argue with me and try to paint every single thing i do as scummy; almost like she just picked a target on a small whim and spent the rest of her time trying to justify it. she's done a lot of defending of eager that very strongly comes off as buddying. she's made a few interactions with other players, small questions that don't lead anywhere and that she doesn't seem to get any information out of. she gets into a headbutting contest with greyice over the ignore button comment but that was completely reactionary. she's made a few unexplained reads lists that are essentially meaningless. she threw a vote on cakez when the momentum shifted in that direction based only on prompting from kraska. she only justifies this after the vote, and only briefly. for the record, despite all the back-and-forth with me, this is where her vote still currently stands. she has a scumread on aristo that she's literally never said a word about, she's barely interacted with him and none of the interactions have implied that she suspects him in any way. none of this suggests a player who is interested in actively solving the game. she is reacting to the two players attacking her, occasionally throwing out a comment or two about other events in the game, and putting up reads lists to give off the guise of scumhunting, without any of the effort.

i haven't provided any specific links here because that'd be a huge amount of clutter, but aside from the point-by-point summarization in #3 of farside's posts thus far i have said all of this before.

i will be honestly flabbergasted if farside flips anything other than scum.

would love to hear your reads tho UT

[Parama]

yup, because i'm less interested in cakez than you.
i'd be bussing the heck out of him if we were both scum together tbh.
not like i've ever said anything about cakes at all though.
314
nope.
465
never made a single argument against him.
575
we're best buds, actually

[Parama]

for the record, here's posts containing things farside has said about cakez:
198 - "i don't disagree with a scumread on cakez"
349 - unexplained vote
352 - "cakez is being opportunistic" "i've seen him as town, he's not this bad"
356 - "there is no substance to cakez's reasoning"

and her interactions with cakez:
437 - "parama is scum with you"
447 - non-game related post about how she got lynched as town once

you have a scumread on him, strong enough to

vote him instead of me

, yet you have very little in the way of arguments for why he's scum, and you haven't once bothered interacting with him in any substantial way. you haven't applied any real pressure, just paid the wagon a bit of lip service and a half-hearted vote.

it's completely illogical that you're voting him over me, yet you are. and then calling me scum for voting my #1 scumread instead of a weaker one.
maybe you're just being opportunistic and voting on a wagon that has more momentum. maybe you just want bussing credit when cakez flips scum.
but it doesn't make sense from a town perspective either way, imo.

[Parama]

because farside is scum regardless of eager's alignment.

[Parama]

intent to hammer btw

cakez: wanna try to figure out which one is scum instead of just claiming one of them is without showing any interest in trying to determine which it is?

[Parama]

and farside is trying to pull the meta argument now. i'm ignoring her because all the games she linked are oooold, even aside from the point that meta is stupid to begin with.

[Parama]

and farside, you're aware i'm only being a question nazi with you because you were being one with me, and i refuse to let hypocritical behavior stand, right?

like, i've literally already said this before?

[Parama]

@ckd 656: your opinion isn't going to change regarding the question, but, your opinion is wrong. end of story.

[Parama]

@ckd 662 your opinion about 556 is also outright wrong. end of story.

[Parama]

weird to me that kraska was defending cakez on one page and hammered him on the next, btw

[Parama]

@kraska what in particular made you think cakez was scum?

also 687 is just a bad post. not in a scummy sense, just objectively bad

[Parama]

yes, it was a "everyone on the internet is guys" joke

which wasn't funny a decade ago tbh

[Parama]

VOTE: farside22

FYI if I'm dead tonight, it's still 100% farside as scum.

Call it a tunnel all you like, fucking trust my reads.

^just another reason, grey was spot on the last time he made this call tbh and farside -is- scum, so

[Parama]

i have no scumbuddies. farside doesn't need to be set up because she's scum. i don't even have a scumread on aristo tbh, he's pretty null

[Parama]

@farside: why ari

[Parama]

for convenience's sake, the extent of things farside has said about ari:

Town: kraska, eager
Moved town town lean: ckd

Scum: ari, sc, Parama

(This doesn't work for you tho because you think Parama is scum)

Exactly.
As I said earlier I think they are both scum with ari.

Its Ari, SC, and Far or Para methinks

VOTE: Aristophanes

Start here. I'm sure you can all use a break from Para/Far, so we'll get to that tomorrow

I'd say Rachel should be considered as well she didn't have that town feel to her post.

Vote: arti

We don't need to consider Rachel if you're right about Para.

Well I'm tired between ari and Rachel.

0 interactions by the way. none at all.
on that note, why rach?

[Parama]

eager, i'm not getting vigged tonight.

[Parama]

like am i going insane here? aside from the other reasons farside is scum, are we not going to talk about her blatant sircakez bus? she only hopped on the wagon for bussing credit. she barely justified it, barely seemed to care about proving he was scum, and yet acted like she was 100% right the whole time.

[Parama]

for the record, here's posts containing things farside has said about cakez:
198 - "i don't disagree with a scumread on cakez"
349 - unexplained vote
352 - "cakez is being opportunistic" "i've seen him as town, he's not this bad"
356 - "there is no substance to cakez's reasoning"

and her interactions with cakez:
437 - "parama is scum with you"
447 - non-game related post about how she got lynched as town once

you have a scumread on him, strong enough to

vote him instead of me

, yet you have very little in the way of arguments for why he's scum, and you haven't once bothered interacting with him in any substantial way. you haven't applied any real pressure, just paid the wagon a bit of lip service and a half-hearted vote.

it's completely illogical that you're voting him over me, yet you are. and then calling me scum for voting my #1 scumread instead of a weaker one.
maybe you're just being opportunistic and voting on a wagon that has more momentum. maybe you just want bussing credit when cakez flips scum.
but it doesn't make sense from a town perspective either way, imo.

reposting for your consideration. this was made

before

cakez flipped scum.

[Parama]

rach was v/la lol

[Parama]

won't disagree with your argument against ari though. hadn't really noticed that he's basically done zero scumhunting all game lol. fair.

[Parama]

i think i was looking for associations between cakez and aristo when everybody started piling on him right after daystart but there are none. like literally zero they never mentioned or interacted with each other. which is null imo. i guess i made an assumption that people were mostly going off buddytells, whoops

[Parama]

eager i know you're super thrilled by the scumflip and i was pretty dang pleased too but i can guarantee you game won't end with me being vigged tonight, regardless of whether or not i'm vigged.

[Parama]

It was obvious planned setup farside kill

??? what does this mean

[Parama]

@kraska kuribo's town and i feel like ut's town too. ari and gear are fine lynches though.

[Parama]

it's easy to bus when you're not the driving force of the lynch

and eager, as always, i will continue to vote my #1 scumpick, even if there are other people i'd be okay with lynching.

[Parama]

dunno why you're so intent on controlling the vig. let them shoot who they want.

[Parama]

why. just because i'm not voting him?

[Parama]

'kay. if you say so.

[Parama]

and i'm gonna be the voice of reason and at least wait for aristo's claim before hammering.

eager, please don't be acting like i'm obvious scum for not insta-voting someone when i literally did not have information that you have.

[Parama]

i'm not going to give him claim ideas, either. don't ask that kind of question. just let him claim.

[Parama]

@kraska what in particular made you think cakez was scum?

oh yeah! i was going to let this go because i thought kraska might be tracker and i didn't want to force her to out, but unless she wants to cc eager (which she should do anyways if she's real tracker, and i really highly doubt eager is scum here) then there's no reason for me to not ask this now.

why the sudden read change and quickhammer, kraska?

[Parama]

@rach: replace out if you don't have time for this.

[Parama]

what are your gifts, aristo.

[Parama]

I also need to go back and see who gave me crap about my read/vote on aristo yesterday

your first post of the day was saying aristo was a bad lynch based on the nightkill and the quick wagon.
who are you to talk lol. and that's assuming he even flips scum, which i don't think is a certainty.

[Parama]

what are your gifts, aristo.

Doesn't fucking matter now!

so... you're scum.
i mean i was just thinking. if you were town this would've been in your claim.
so yeah. literally no reason to not out this if you're town.

[Parama]

I also need to go back and see who gave me crap about my read/vote on aristo yesterday

your first post of the day was saying aristo was a bad lynch based on the nightkill and the quick wagon.
who are you to talk lol. and that's assuming he even flips scum, which i don't think is a certainty.

Why post this and not mention snakes claims? And then an inventor claim? A lot happened since I said that. I also said it didn't make since unless he was scum with far side, why leave that too is saying the above?

just pointing out that "giving you crap" for your aristo scumread is a bit silly when you wouldn't have had that scumread now if not for the claim.

[Parama]

ebwop: pointing out that [suspecting people for]* "giving you crap" etc.

[Parama]

yeah before SC closes the thread you really should finish the claim out and give your reads at least quick ones Ari

No.

You people were dumb enough to quickhammer me on a non-guilty!
You can all just suck it!

Why the hell would I help you after this!?

because giving town as much information as you can is playing to your wincon, and being bitter about it won't change the fact that you're lynched.
if you were town, you'd answer my question and you would give us reads. but you're apparently not.

[Parama]

why did you want to hammer so badly, rach?

[Parama]

i mean, it's smart play if he's scum, to be fair.

aside from the bitterness.

[Parama]

i'm gonna have to give this game a once over when i get home. legit dunno who the third scum is atm. don't think farside bussed aristo.

i'd love to hear more from gear and rach.

if eager caught another scum that'd be rad tho

[Parama]

i'm not interested in setup speculation right now when the fact of the matter is that snake lead lynches on scum 2 days in a row.

either that's an insane bussing gambit or he's town.

also put UT on the list of people I want to hear more from.

[Parama]

that's anticlimactic.

[Parama]

hmm. looking at the vc for sc's lynch. 2 flipped town and a third likely town.

aristo wasn't on the wagon so I'd wager the other scum was. I don't see it being ckd or kuribo for sure so that leaves UT and farside. not impossible that scum weren't on the lynch at all though. rach and gear both aren't out of the question.

will look over stuff tonight when I'm home and get a better sense of the direction I wanna go but if you asked me rn I'd say UT or gear today.

[Parama]

cute. wanna contribute something useful next time?

[Parama]

I can think of one solution where both those are wrong.

[Parama]

town jailkeeper.

[Parama]

better blocked than dead.
explains the missing kill too.

[Parama]

you're the pot calling the kettle black there y'know.

[Parama]

But you can essentially clear someone by jailkeeping them

it's just a possibility, regardless.

@farside, reading into flavor is grasping at straws.

[Parama]

you barely pushed cakez as scum. you parked your vote then immediately defaulted to calling me scum. And then you acted like cakez had flipped scum before the lynch was even through, trying to pin me as the buddy.

excuse me for thinking you bussed, farside. not sure how I ever got that impression.

[Parama]

how about summarizing it in a paragraph or so.

[Parama]

if farside starts wall-posting i'm going to ignore her. if she briefly summarizes why she thinks i'm scum i'll gladly respond.

[Parama]

skimming gear's iso.
362 is really bad, like he's trying to set up a future lynch.
363 thru 389 are all about grey's dumb thing regarding farside "lying". it looks like he's dodging around the whole issue. unvote in 364 but no revote, only declaring intent to vote. then immediately next post says he doesn't agree with grey's argument. he does come to the right conclusion in 389 though.
557 is just super weak, especially for the first proper read he's given all game. #3 literally looks like it's there for rule of threes purposes only. #2 is pretty wimpy too. only #1 has any real merit and it's more a misunderstanding than intentionally trying to twist something to look scummy.

mostly from this iso, i get... a player who's not really invested in the game much. he made two votes d1, and one of them was rvs.
a comprehensive list of things he's said about players:
"i could lynch aristo"
"cakez is scum and ckd his his buddy"
"i don't have a read on farside"
"greyice is scum"

all of his posts are very brief and a fair few of them feel like outright filler that doesn't amount to anything.
i'd love to see if this is just how he posts though, but it's at best a playstyle i really dislike and at worst really lazy scum

[Parama]

i was gonna go through UT's iso but the end result of that was:
i like his posting in general and 822 is the first post he's made that i dislike to any extent.
i'd love to see him post more content though. it's a bit barren but he's made a number of on-point posts. wouldn't lynch today.

[Parama]

rach's day 1 has a lot of hard-townreading greyice and being a sort of mediator. 347, 387 for example. she has literally no scumreads by day's end though.
784 is a pretty solid post. i do actually get the impression she's scumhunting from that post.
797 is not scum. no. scum!rach would have literally no reason to make this post.
810 is also screamingly town. this is the kind of post scum would be too terrified to make. literally chainsawing the person who hammered scum.
i guess what i get from this post was; rach did not know aristo would flip scum. that's what that post is screaming to me, and 797 backs that up.

yeah, i definitely wouldn't lynch this today. i probably wouldn't lynch this until a 3-way lylo consisting of myself, eager, and rach tbh. kill everyone but those two and game would be over 100%, my thoughts

[Parama]

would not lynch today:
eager
rach
ckd
kuribo
UT

might be convinced to lynch:
farside

would be okay with lynching:
gear

well that makes my job piss easy, doesn't it.
VOTE: Gear

[Parama]

Parama is voting me over Farside, that's weird. I thought he was town cause I liked the reasoning that he wouldn't have wanted to kill GreyICE N1, but this requires some explanation.

you seem... disappointed.

re 887:
1. ckd townread: ok
2. dodging: the me vs. farside argument
3. traitor: why would scum do it?
i do not townread you from the things that you quoted. i don't see why i should.

[Parama]

re: ckd 893
this is a pretty solid point. the only decent reason i could see this particular grouping killing grey n1 over, like, eager or you, is if they were PR hunting.
the grey kill really only benefits the people he was tunneling on d1, which would be farside and kuribo. and i'd be shocked if the latter is scum at this point.

p-edit: hi again farside, i literally asked you to summarize your case against me, which you have blatantly ignored. are you ready to stop playing anti-town?

[Parama]

oh yeah, i know eager asked this privately but i'd love to have this answered publicly:

@Mod: could a lone mafia member perform both their factional kill and their role action? (for example, roleblocker)

[Parama]

I just don't think scum would be so blatant about it.

[Parama]

yeah, I'm not saying I believe grey was killed as a pr hunt, just that it's a possibility.

[Parama]

farside, the more stupid reaches you have to make, the less likely you are to be taken seriously. why would scum nokill.

[Parama]

still waiting on that case btw. you can't whine about how nobody's listening to your case until you've actually made it.

[Parama]

still waiting, farside...

[Parama]

I never claimed jailkeeper

[Parama]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: farside

here's some motivation btw

[Parama]

tbh if we do still have a vig they can just kill the other of gear/farside and i'd be surprised if the game was still going after that

[Parama]

I never claimed jailkeeper

you are putting words in her mouth she didnt say, to make her look scummy.

Well.

I said fake claimed jk, ie could be scum rb.

Looked to me like she thought my earlier post was a claim, and thus she had to attack it because literally everything I do has to be scum.

town jailkeeper.

This sounded like a fake claim.

Aaaaand lo and behold, I was right.

[Parama]

Eager, what happened to your suspicion of parama?

btw this looks like desperate deflection.
"hey eager. hey. hey eager. what about parama. hey eager look at parama. hey"

[Parama]

to sum up the entire last page and a half

get over yourself

[Parama]

v/la today thru Sunday btw

[Parama]

Eager, what happened to your suspicion of parama?

btw this looks like desperate deflection.
"hey eager. hey. hey eager. what about parama. hey eager look at parama. hey"

I'm still town!

posts like this continue to make me doubt this assertion. you dodge the entire argument by just going "lol but I'm town". something town has no reason to do.

[Parama]

okay..you guys, quit spamming thread.

UT - tell me why you think farside is scum, thus voting her.
farisde - tell me why you didnt claim.
farside - what makes you think parama claimed JK
rach - do fucking something, you are on the worthless side of this game.

Explained.
Just felt like it was a soft claim and I missed some of the back and forth dialog.
Plus he asked if scum could do both a PR and kill, it reads like he is ready to try to fake claim at this point.

proposing a theory is just that, a theory.
and I want to know the answer because it helps us make sense of night actions better but I guess mod isn't gonna answer.

[Parama]

this game took a lolturn d3

hey just because you're not the best thing since sliced bread doesn't mean I don't wanna hear your opinion on stuff. okay?

[Parama]

the way ckd is talking about an SK isn't stupid, it's the way other people are saying LOLOLOL MAYBE THERE'S AN SK WHO DO YOU THINK IT IS I MIGHT NEED TO SHOOT THEM TONIGHT BECAUSE I'M TOTALLY NOT SCUM OR MAYBE IF THERE'S A VIG COULD YOU OUT YOURSELF PLEASE I'M TOTALLY TOWN FOR DOING THIS

Parama hinted that snake maybe protected.

I wonder why.
Not like he was obv town and a claimed pr
Not like there was one less kill n2 than n1
Not like I ever said it was the only possibility, just the one that makes the most sense to me

but why do I bother. Literally everything I have ever done in this game has scum motivation apparently, or at least according to you it does

[Parama]

@UT pretty sure farside brought up sk in the first place but I'm on phone and can't check for confidence

[Parama]

yeah I was talking about the night actions and stuff. I'll worry about whether or not there's an SK if we have three dead maf and game is still ongoing

[Parama]

if you have time to post so much why don't you have time to compile a proper case, farside?

[Parama]

for the record I have no clue what 1065 is trying to say?

[Parama]

man it's a good thing i took v/la this weekend, i'm missing so much

[Parama]

1. because i vote my strongest scumread
2.

Somebody hammer Aristophanes. Protective role on me, Killing role on Parama, I'll do my job.

Gut feeling moment with Parama attitude and my scum read on him I don't think he would blantenly wait for scum buddy to fake claim.

Just wait for arti to claim on this.

Yes, I am so obviously scum with aristo because I wanted to wait for him to claim.
You can't possibly be this dense.
3. Aristo barely interacted with you too. He barely interacted with anyone, because he didn't post a ton. There are living players that he interacted less with than either of us.
4. I think this argument works AGAINST you, actually. I'd expect scum to put one of their buddies in their scumlist. And, well, eager ain't it, and ckd ain't it. This is actually hilarious because this has nothing to do with why I'm scum with Cakez, it only has to do why you AREN'T. So it's irrelevant to begin with.
5. again, because you were my preferred lynch of the day.

well, that was fun.

[Parama]

no clue what part of my post 1083 is a response to tbh

[Parama]

I mean when there's only one scum left???

[Parama]

Hey farside, just for the record, (living) people who have not been on a scum wagon:
Gear
Parama
Rach

Dunno why you're singling me out for it. Kind of a stupid argument unless you think three people are buddies with the two flipped scum.

[Parama]

It's like 2 out of 3 are on my scum list and you missed that somehow.

Missing the point. At least two of the three are town. And the argument holds true for all three.
So the argument itself is flawed.

[Parama]

I can't believe obv town is scum posting omg

seriously eager thats just

I can't

[Parama]

My objective is lynching Gear

Why would I include information that

A) Gives him no town points
but could still
B) Could sway you away from voting him

you're fully aware this is exactly how scum make arguments to drive mislynches right???

[Parama]

I just do whatever is necessary to get my scumread lynched

and this is not how it works.

[Parama]

nvm. this is a waste of my time. eager you can continue to live in your perfect little world where you're never wrong, meanwhile I'm going to continue to play the game in the real world

[Parama]

@snake: you're talking like all three of us are town. I don't think you believe that, but that's how your last post can be interpreted. just fyi.

[Parama]

I can't help you if that's your end goal tbh

[Parama]

I don't really disagree, tbh.

Also had a frustrating realization.
If farside is maf, then she knows I'm not scum with cakez and aristo. And she's putting a lot of eggs in one basket by trying to pin me as the buddy the way she's going. So it looks pretty bad for her when I flip town, which scum-farside would know to be the case. It just doesn't add up as something scum would do.
The only issue with that is that she has Rach as a backup scumread that she can push after she loses the ability to push me as scum. So I'm not 100% sold yet. But I'm really not so sure on this anymore. Sigh.
UNVOTE:

A 3-way lylo with both me and farside in it is a scum's wet dream though. Honestly that'd be the worst possible scenario here.

[Parama]

hey eager:

step back for a second and consider that

you could be wrong

because when all of me, ckd, and kuribo have called you out for the exact same thing

you're probably wrong, buddy

@kuribo but seriously stop that. that vote is counter-productive

[Parama]

parama has done basically nothing but play games with farside

also, lol

[Parama]

I never lied lol but OK

yes,

you did

[Parama]

I left my farside tunnel for this, go look at the last page from gear and do me solid if I'm dead tomorrow

Gear is scum eager. Kraska is definitely not.

You guys are all mad because I quoted 2 posts without quoting another post.
I didn't even add anything to it.. didn't even post an opinion on it.. just quoted 2 posts and went on my way

it's not that you didn't quote one post.
it's that you KNOWINGLY avoided quoting a post you knew existed, which is intentionally obscuring information,

which is lying

[Parama]

i've done it as scum before, i'm sure, yes

[Parama]

oh god i don't even want to think of the dead thread this game omg

[Parama]

grey's probably having an aneurysm in there

[Parama]

@mod your next bastard mod game must include a double-voter or fake-voter or some sort of votecount altering role

[Parama]

farside the meta you pulled was all 2+ years old

I don't think meta is a particularly good argument either way but at least recent meta isn't completely irrelevant, only mostly irrelevant

[Parama]

a useless point.

nah, i definitely feel "I DON'T LIKE BEING TOLD WHAT TO DO" is a pretty good point

ok but it is a really silly point let's be honest
we don't policy lynch obvtown on d3, no matter how bad they are

[Parama]

so far no one has been able to or has answered my concern about scum far which is why she would be ballsy enough to double bus both her scum budz?

Okay, but you have to put it into context. I don't think "parking a vote on a scumbuddy" is really strongly bussing. Bussing by definition, sure, but Aristo was dead in the water to begin with and Cakez already had momentum before farside jumped onto it.
Regardless of that, farside's push on Aristo doesn't strike me as a bus, but I wouldn't discount it. It's one of the things making me doubt my farside scumread though. The push on Cakez on the other hand reeks of bussing.

[Parama]

however, reading the SC wagon...ugh...dont look bussy.

like, i'd agree if you were pointing to the aristo wagon but the sircakez vote still comes off as a bus to me.
i was actually suspicious of it being a bus before there was even a flip, see 635 for reasons why.

[Parama]

I was right there with aristo and cakez, your ignoring obvious scum on neither wagon, which kills me the most.

okay, riddle me this:
as scum, why would i intentionally leave myself off the aristo wagon, when there's a blatant guilty on him and easy bussing credit to grab?

[Parama]

every time i ask farside a question that she doesn't have a good answer to she just ignores it

[Parama]

Gear, I'm curious. Where has Rach expressed a scumread on farside on D3? Because I looked through her ISO and I outright don't see it?

[Parama]

really have the feeling that when we get to the dead PT at the end of the game, we're going to find grey screaming about how we're idiots for not destroying either farside or Gear

haha okay good sir you're misreading this. the "why not both" refers to who greyice is yelling at us for not lynching. that is not rach expressing a scumread on grey.

[Parama]

intent to hammer

waddup