Mini 1837: Family Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Ranmaru]

Hello everyone. The Cactus is in, and he'll be catching up soon.

[Ranmaru]

Reads

:

Townreads: [Giga, Zito, House, Nacho]
Nulls: [Dram, Spy, kraska, Hydra]

Sircakes reads as new, believing in defensiveness being scummy when that isn't alignment indicative. I would expect new town to still believe in that, and feel he is wrong. Yet others follow (Camn #166, Elyse #276), his gambit of hiphop claiming masons reads as townie as well. His push on Nacho is wrong because Nacho wasn't voting/suspecting Kraska, but simply asking a question. I also think he missed Nacho's whole entire Elyse push and when Nacho goes to Dram he foces on that.

[Ranmaru]

Scumreads

:

Postie scum [Acting town, fake reads, takes long to push anyone] (no reason to ask that, it was a good question)(#22, #147, #196 > #263, #226,#247, #278, #316, #333, #336, #369, #370, #422, #425) Good point #186, #458 , #660, feels like it took her a while to get around to this vote

Camn Scum [Follows reachy Elyse argument, puts giga on cull list, votes lynch bait twice, votes hiplop, is budding with house] (#24, #33, #42, #166, #289, #328, #407, #409, #419, #531, #570, #606)

Elyse scum [early 'postie fine' read, very reachy, forced, very stubborn, comments on nothing else, forced confidence, posts a lot more in her other game and seems more genuine there, House scum read is down-graded to null without a reason] (#69, #70, #74, #276, #299 , #329 [good point on camn #299])

Vote: Postie

[Ranmaru]

Questions

:

House, can you give me more on why you have Elyse as town? I don't think you have given enough justification.
Postie, why did you ask Giga about their question to House in #22? Read on Camn and Giga?
Camn, how is Nacho scummy here? Reads on Postie and Elyse?
Elise, go further into your reads on Postie and Camn.

[Ranmaru]

EBWOP: #369

[Ranmaru]

Taking a break now.

[Ranmaru]

Giggles

:

I felt that was a bit jumpy for Postie to ask you that when in the middle of questioning House on his 'ehhh' which did seem like something to ask for, but not really something to pounce on him for (Elyse). I also feel that her reads are fake since House asked her about her reads and she forgot she had a read on Spicy and House recognized this. It seems minor in the micro scale but adding up her whole play I think it shows she actually is faking her reads and trying to seem town for town credit, which is why I linked all those posts of her unvoting and calling for L-1, etc. You seem to read her differently than me, though. Giga, who are your scumreads at this moment? Please refresh me.

[Ranmaru]

House

I don't see the reason to let either of Elyse or Camn live today. How has your read on Nacho developed?

SirCakes

Still townie that is wrong but believes in defensiveness = scummy still for some reason (that I do not know). Still wrong on Nacho, and I feel others have used your push to fuel their own. Still think your gambit on my slot was townie to gain reactions. Think you are wrong to simply condemn Nacho for his Dram vote.

[Ranmaru]

I'm willing to listen about your townreads Giga.

[Ranmaru]

Postie I need more from Kraska to read her. By the end of the day when I see more posting from her I should have a read on her. Why is Camn me to you? Would you consider voting her today?

[Ranmaru]

If you really don't want Elyse or Camn, talk to me about Postie then. You said you found my case interesting, can you give any thoughts?

[Ranmaru]

I would like for you to re-evaluate Camn as well. I find the actions subtle but scum indicative. With Camn, she put you on the 'culling' list for a legitimate question. She was quite jump but took you off as soon as Postie evaluated that she liked your responses. Her votes on Sircakes and Hiplop (my slot) have been opportunistic. She was also giving some authority to House for her Hiplop read. She stated she wouldn't wagon Nacho D1 but when the opportunity arrived, she took it, saying he was being scummy. (When he wasn't)

[Ranmaru]

I do. Although I see more connections between Camn/Elyse and Postie/Elyse. Yet I'm focusing on individual suspicion.

[Ranmaru]

I already explained my Cake reasoning twice, Postie.

[Ranmaru]

Fair enough, House. Welcome to my wagon.

[Ranmaru]

Exactly. He says he has been around for a year or so but I don't think scum would purposely push defensiveness after being around for a year. I think he genuinely believes in it, while Elise is forcing her content. I also liked his interaction with me.

[Ranmaru]

Dram, read on Postie?

[Ranmaru]

Because it's dumb to still believe in that. Not a strong read (which is why I haven't grouped him with my other town reads), plus focusing on my scum reads over town reads.

[Ranmaru]

More votes on Postie please

[Ranmaru]

Not scumreading her based on theory disagreement. Scumread remains the same.

[Ranmaru]

Got it. That's the important part, and I feel he believes it. I think Postie is trying to fake a misunderstanding yet continues to press it.

Cakez, what is your take on this interaction?

[Ranmaru]

Sup Spy, look forward to your read man

[Ranmaru]

94, 344

These feel genuine. Which is the gist of what I'm saying, and I feel like you are purposely tuning that out Postie. That's all. What is your read on Sir Cakes?

[Ranmaru]

The Cactus is going to sleep. Good night thread.

[Ranmaru]

Hey Zito I'm glad I'm in here too. I disagree with you though, but I'm open to listening. I don't see anyone that might fit in with Camn/Elyse at the moment.

Re-iteration on Postie

:

Postie forgets her read in #268 and explains it was just gut. Her #333 feels like she says that to seem town. Her #430 sounds faked.

[Ranmaru]

I'm interested in Postie's response to Spyrex.
Spicy, elaborate on why you think House is being dumb. Why Nacho?
House, can you tell me your read on Giga?
Giga, are you working on that re-read? I'd like to see your conclusions.

[Ranmaru]

Lol. Yeah it's early here too just woke up. Fair.

[Ranmaru]

You should take a break. Rest is Best.

I'll be in thread later.

[Ranmaru]

Whatever conclusion you draw from his response. You asked him about his read on me, so you must have a conclusion from that, unless you didn't really mean to ask him.

[Ranmaru]

I'm also noting Nacho visiting the site at noon and 3PM and I'd like to see him post about something not Elyse/Dram related.

Nacho we need to talk.

[Ranmaru]

Postie, help me to read you better.

Who are your top 3 scumpicks? (With reasoning)
Why do you focus so much on asking people for townreads, and how does that help you find scum?
Why ask Giga about her question about House's 'Ehhh' but not address Elyse's early vote on House?
Reads (or updated reads) on Nacho and Spicy?

[Ranmaru]

Yeah ima just pretend you're not in this game for now

Why? Also what's up with your tone here?

[Ranmaru]

Yet you haven't tried and I'm here opening the gates of opportunity for you to convince me. I'm here, willing to listen.

[Ranmaru]

You can explain why I am deluding myself then. I don't see you refuting what I'm saying. Also tell me what you think of your wagon at the moment.

[Ranmaru]

@

Sircakes

, @

Giggles

, @

Kraska

:

Can you guys give me a better understanding of Postie's slot and how she'd play as either alignment. That would help a ton. I don't have as much context as you guys do.

[Ranmaru]

House talk to me about your Elyse town read. Right now I find some of the things Nacho is saying sensible, such as his point that Elyse is overcompensating to separate herself from her House vote. (Which I agree with) Yet my concern right now is that Nacho's early vote was crap, and I don't see why he's on Dram at the moment. Also what is your read on Nacho at the moment?

[Ranmaru]

Ah, I missed that Elyse. My concern (and Nacho's) was that your push between House and Nacho had no conclusion in between. You said it was clear that you missed the sign up thread but you didn't respond to House saying "Ah, that is right" to make it clear. or give some conclusion. Yet you do that again with your Camn vote. (Which means to me it's consistent and you don't care about your image) Also you can interpret Spy's 'Boring' comment anyway you want but I think instead of trying to guess at it, you would best ask Spy himself.

What are your updated reads on Giggles, House, and Jalapeno?

[Ranmaru]

Confused as to who you are talking about Spy. Also talk to me about Elyse. I find her reachy but her play is consistent and my scumread on Elyse is waning. Talk to me about nacho too.

[Ranmaru]

I want to say that I am not liking Jalapeno for his vote on Postie and this vote either. He's not doing enough.

[Ranmaru]

@

Sircakes

:

Have you ever been burned by meta before? What stops Postie or Camn doing something differently then you would expect?

[Ranmaru]

That's kind of my problem. (wrt Jalapeno) I'll look back, but how down are you for a Camn wagon?

Also I just need Nacho in here.

[Ranmaru]

Spy, I have parsed it. I also read her backwards to RVS. I think she asks legitimate questions though [#526], but she doesn't actually give conclusions we can draw and makes it hard to read for everyone. Some of the things that came up in my mind, she has already pointed out. Also, her read on Nacho was not omgus since she voted him first. [#276] I don't understand her Spy read on you but she did have some questions to you, so it shows progression. She has good points on Camn and Kraska. Her actions have remained consistent, so she hasn't backed down from voting and separating herself from other pushes. My scumread on her is vanishing.

[Ranmaru]

meta is dumb

EDIT: It's not really well-crafted

Scumreads

:

Postie scum [Acting town, fake reads, takes long to push anyone] (no reason to ask that, it was a good question)(#22, #147, #196 > #263, #226,#247, #278, #316, #333, #336, #369, #370, #422, #425) Good point #186, #458 , #660, feels like it took her a while to get around to this vote

Camn Scum [Follows reachy Elyse argument, puts giga on cull list, votes lynch bait twice, votes hiplop, is budding with house] (#24, #33, #42, #166, #289, #328, #407, #409, #419, #531, #570, #606)

Elyse scum [early 'postie fine' read, very reachy, forced, very stubborn, comments on nothing else, forced confidence, posts a lot more in her other game and seems more genuine there, House scum read is down-graded to null without a reason] (#69, #70, #74, #276, #299 , #329 [good point on camn #299])

Vote: Postie

Elyse, question:

Why do you over-exaggerate?
Why do you wall-post everything? (More of a game thing, it makes it harder to interact with you and easier to skim, instead of just doing small posts)
Have you considered Spicy might be scum that Nachoscum derailed? (I'm aware you said your town read on him is decreasing)

[Ranmaru]

God damn it

[Ranmaru]

Re-post to make it easier to read

:

Elyse, question

:

Why do you over-exaggerate?
Why do you wall-post everything? (More of a game thing, it makes it harder to interact with you and easier to skim, instead of just doing small posts)
Have you considered Spicy might be scum that Nachoscum derailed? (I'm aware you said your town read on him is decreasing)

[Ranmaru]

I do not know of this shared display you speak of. Please enlighten me. (Damn these quotes never stop following me)

[Ranmaru]

I'll look at it though.

[Ranmaru]

I see, thank you for teaching me the ways of Advanced ISO arts.

[Ranmaru]

Nacho, can you talk about your scumread reasons? I know you have before but since you list them here, it would be nice to have them all in one post.

[Ranmaru]

Just curious, is it a habit regardless of alignment? Is it related to your level of confidence?

[Ranmaru]

Right now I'm re-evaluating her and want your opinion since you seem to have played with her before. Just want to know your thoughts on what I'm saying.

[Ranmaru]

House

:

I don't intend to vote anyone out of paranoia. Even so I feel it's good to try to determine alignments on D1 so there is more to work with D2. Doesn't mean you need to vote them, but avoiding talking about it altogether doesn't help the town the next day. I feel we'd be in an extended D1 if we let the kill resolve who we are worried about and go from there. Plus i'm not looking for more support for her wagon, I'm looking for understanding and to see where your head is at.

[Ranmaru]

Ran wtf is the point of all these questions?

I'm making conclusions here so I ask questions to understand the player. It's what I do.

[Ranmaru]

Not trying to twist what you are saying. If I misunderstood it, correct me. I think this is more of a theory disagreement. Not trying to imply you aren't going to vote. Yet I'm still going to do my best to get the correct lyncy today. I'll leave it at that. (That's usually what I try to do, so you have a little context)

[Ranmaru]

Fair enough.

[Ranmaru]

I think they haven't done enough and have lurked their way out of a wagon. I disliked their vote on the Postie wagon, and moving their vote to Camn. It shows they don't care to help progress the phase at all, and one of the heads mention game solving but I see no indication of that.

Spy let's move here for now. I'm still working on the Elyse v Nacho conclusion, but for right now my vote is better served here.

Unvote; Vote: SpicyJalapeñoKnocks

[Ranmaru]

Fair enough.

[Ranmaru]

I'm leaning towards Spicy or Camn happening. I think those two are our best options for today.

[Ranmaru]

Conclusion:

Nacho #41 concern.
Nacho #51concern.
Nacho #113 concern.

Nacho questions Kraska's question to Camn's cullling list. Kraska was in the right to ask it. His #113 where he concludes that it's fair, comes only after a vote and 50 posts later. He said he interpreted it as 'talk about these people' but never cared to ask Camn about it. This post implies that Kraska should have interpreted in that way and shouldn't have asked. (This is my interpretation) He had a sensible argument on Elyse on the surface, but after talking it through with House, has defaulted to a Dram vote and merely posting a reads list without doing much else.

Elyse enters and votes House [#276] but doesn't mention Nacho or ask him questions. No progression to her Nacho vote. Yet, her reasoning that comes after [#526] is about his #113 and on. So it's possible she had no qualms with his question like Cakes did but she had problems with Nacho's interactions with Cake. Sircakes started the wagon but I don't see his reasons as strong enough to follow. Her over-exxageration doesn't have anything to do with her confidence. So I don't really see why she would make posts like "I am going to be so pissed if Nacho isn't dead." I thought it would relate to confidence and emotional investment. She also made some good points/questions towards Camn and Kraska. [#913] As I have said, her actions have been consistent, and hasn't backed down from those which means she doesn't care about her image. Her forcing things is null since she does it regardless of alignment. Her stretching things is null too, as I can follow what she's saying up to a certain point. When she goes "This has no progression... it's like [stretchy statement here]"; the former part of that statement would ring true while the latter seems stretched. I also think some of her scum reads (spy, zito) are misguided.

Elyse - Slight town
Nacho - Slight scum (Stronger scum read if Spicy flips scum)
Camn - Scum (same read applies)
Postie - Null (Town if Spicy flips scum)
Spicy - Scum

[Ranmaru]

For this analysis I looked at Nacho-Elyse-Camn and Nacho-Cakes-Elyse and Nacho-Elyse-Kraska.

---
Good Elyse Questions/Statements:

Spoiler: GEQS

Camn #328
This response feels icky to me. Like you're testing the waters and pushing the Nacho scumread all on me.

Ran Commentary:

I liked this, she touched on something that seems to have scum motivation. Elyse asked her a question about how she'd 180'd on her Nacho d1 pass. Camn's answer is an awkward one, and also gives authority to Elyse to backtrack out of it.

Camn #407
I find it odd you have no comment on Nacho after agreeing with my scumread on him and instead call out this nonsense.

Ran Commentary:

I agree with this thought. It is inconsequential. She states support on Nachowagon but instead focuses on House (which he explains and it makes sense) and her conclusion is that he is a softie. That doesn't line up. It's not the conclusion she should draw.

Kraska #416
What's with this progression? Nothing happened in between this. Why didn't you vote me earlier? This just seems like you were waiting for me to post something so you could hop on and got antsy.

Ran Commentary:

Good point here. Kraska has been fence-sitting a bit and showed no actual confidence or strong stance to vote Elyse. Elyse correctly pointed out that there was no progression to the vote. (Looking at Kraska-Nacho-Elyse)

Kraska #462
Yeah clearly no one wants it. What gives? Why are you pushing so hard when A) I haven't been posting [meaning I can't respond to you/there's no new info for people to vote/not vote me with] B) You weren't sold on me being scum and I haven't posted anything since

Ran Commentary:

Good point here. Especially about Kraska not being sold on Elyse and she (Elyse) hadn't posted anything new.

[Ranmaru]

Re-posting Camn revised reasoning

:

Camn Scum [Supports Nachowagong but no vote, puts giga on cull list, votes lynch bait twice, votes hiplop, is budding with house, awkward response to Elyse] (#24, #33, #42, #166, #289, #328, #407, #409, #419, #531, #570, #606)

[Ranmaru]

Elyse's points on Kraska gives me a null-scum read on Kraska, due to voting Elyse with no progression or strong stance on her. I'm currently trying to fit in a 3-man team and at the moment see a Spicy/Nacho/Camn team.

[Ranmaru]

@

Zito

@

Elyse

@

Giga

@

Sircakes

Let's wagon Spicy

[Ranmaru]

With reference to the Spicy wagon or my Elyse v Nacho analysis? (I had to look up 'gumption' and the 'cart before the horse' for clarification)

[Ranmaru]

Fair enough.

[Ranmaru]

I thought it was funny since he said scum instead of town. It seemed like a technical error. With postie it seemed like a contradiction that was pointed out, while House corrected himself. I did not pry into it since I felt it would be trivial.

On feeling, I was trying that at the start but re-read things to re-evaluate, which is what you see in the last page.

[Ranmaru]

I used links because quotes are ugly. (to avoid walling)
Postie is null at the moment, town if Spicy is scum. Did not like their vote on her.

[Ranmaru]

Exactly. I was trying to poke her brain and she shut down. I can't tell if she either cannot answer because she is scum or if she is town that doesn't scum hunt in a normal way. It is why I have asked for meta. So I set her aside and pursued another lead.

[Ranmaru]

Zito: Updated reads on Nacho and Elyse?

[Ranmaru]

Just want to say that I am displeased Nacho had not talked with me at all. Does not help my read if him. That's all, I think I have touched on enough for today.

[Ranmaru]

So still slight Nacho scum

[Ranmaru]

lmao that would be so dumb plz no

[Ranmaru]

You had no strong stance on her. You stated you were iffy. Did you respond to Elyses points? I would like to see that.

[Ranmaru]

I have given an updated list. Are you caught up?

[Ranmaru]

Did you ever do the catch up you said you would do in your #780? Also quote both responses to elyse please.

[Ranmaru]

why were you initially townreading kraska?

When did I say that?

[Ranmaru]

What are your current reads Giga?

[Ranmaru]

Did you do that re-read yet?

[Ranmaru]

Kraska, Elise responded to your #462 in her #526. Did you respond?

[Ranmaru]

Gigantic, explain your reads on Kraska, Elise, and Dram. Thank you. (I am aware you are waffling on Elise but I want the reasoning)

[Ranmaru]

I want people to focus on getting Giga to commit to stances. I want people to keep an eye on Kraska. She is not reading thoroughly and her vote on Elise was bad.

[Ranmaru]

I thought you gave me two different quotes in response to both else responses. So I was confused about the second one. Your first quote has 1 and 2 but no context.

[Ranmaru]

Vote: Kraska77

Swag. Kraska scum implies Giga Scum and Elyse town. Also need to look into why Kraska was asking about Nacho a lot.

[Ranmaru]

I can see that. Possible Nacho/Kraska distancing in early game. More sure of Giga/Kraska over Nacho, will re-read later.

[Ranmaru]

Don't put her at L-1. (Cuz scum selfie hammer) to re-read and make some conclusions before we end the day. (And obv have most of the class show up)

[Ranmaru]

I'd rather not listen to suggestions from scum.

[Ranmaru]

To clarify, if you're scum Giga that means if there is a Dayvig, scum may have BP to counter it.

[Ranmaru]

I mean I get associations and etc but we have a

real bit of reconciled data here

.

What are you referring to? I looked up the definition but can only guess the guilty?

[Ranmaru]

also ran i thought kraska's progression onto Elyse made sense? am i missing context because i think 349 made the jump make sense.

why were you initially townreading kraska?

[Ranmaru]

VOTE: Kraskaalso i don't mind being lynched/vigged at all i really have not been pulling my weight here lol

Town don't say this.

[Ranmaru]

Yo Ranmaru, why aren't you townreading kraska?

Postie, why did you ask Giga about their question to House in #22?

Because I wanted to move the game out of RVS.

Read on Camn and Giga?

Camn is meh Giga is obvtown.

[Ranmaru]

Upon Kraska Scum + Giga Scum I'd look into Postie.

[Ranmaru]

Interesting that Postie is no longer ignoring me.

[Ranmaru]

You ignore me to avoid helping me read you but you do comment when it's related to defending Giga.

[Ranmaru]

Giga Scum > Postie Scum.

[Ranmaru]

House, talk to me about the Postie quotes I brought up. I'd like to hear your thoughts.

[Ranmaru]

Giga: I want a new reads list with Kraska guilty in mind.

[Ranmaru]

My thought process on Giga Scum: I felt that they were having a hard time gaining any reads since town may have been playing well and there were no openings for Giga to attack. Her late entrance yesterday along with Kraska seemed slightly opportunistic to me. She tried really hard to town read Kraska here.

[Ranmaru]

She wouldn't need to if you were both the same alignment. Also she town-read you the whole game. Have either of you tried to determine each other's alignment?

[Ranmaru]

Postie, can you show me where and why you townread Kraska originally? Thank you.

[Ranmaru]

I can't find the Kraska town read in your ISO though. (Thanks for the reasoning though)

[Ranmaru]

I went back to see why I townread kraska and now I feel a lot better about this guilty.

So which post did you look back at to feel better about the guilty?

[Ranmaru]

What's up Elyse. Thoughts on Giga and Postie?

[Ranmaru]

Picking kraska as a target

doesn't make sense to me

? Like I would expect him to pick Nacho because he was a controversial read across the entire town.

Expand on this. How is this relevant to finding scum? Do you believe the result or not?

[Ranmaru]

What, you don't believe in the power of friendship(tm)?

It can only go so far.

[Ranmaru]

:Popcorn:

[Ranmaru]

Waiting.

[Ranmaru]

Lmao

[Ranmaru]

She wants to get to L-1 to self hammer.

[Ranmaru]

Nah ure gonna explain exactly what it is
Especially after I claim

Translation: nah you're gonna explain never because nobody is gonna put me at L-1 so I'll just sit here not progressing the day for some [not pro-town] reason.

[Ranmaru]

Kraska you not claiming is a scum claim. Why do you assume Sircake's is 'being dumb'?

[Ranmaru]

Well if the guilty is as damning as you're making it sound then I gues nacho is scum after all

???

[Ranmaru]

Vote: Kraska

L-1

[Ranmaru]

LOL

[Ranmaru]

With bus driving don't you need to pick two people?

[Ranmaru]

What's your flavor claim.

[Ranmaru]

Just realized flavor probably won't matter. xD

[Ranmaru]

That makes no sense
Why switch yourself with nacho? There was 0 town motivation for that.
Plus most mods don't let bus drivers self target anyway

You're scum

This is the nail in her coffin.

[Ranmaru]

She's not L-1 I was trying to take advantage of her skimming. I agree with waiting for others.

[Ranmaru]

Answer the questions addressed to you.

[Ranmaru]

Ok fuck it I'm 3p
I h8 u cakes.....

Expand on this.

[Ranmaru]

I wanted to know what kind of 3p you are and what you can do, but I think I realized you don't really care to explain that to town and are trying to save your ass.

[Ranmaru]

Yeah I agree, forget about that question.

[Ranmaru]

Camn doesn't need to answer. Why did you kill Spy Kraska?

[Ranmaru]

I agree with House here.

[Ranmaru]

Agree with Camn, we should move on and talking to associative stuff now, assuming Kraska Scum. All connections are null and void if she does flip 3p obviously.

[Ranmaru]

So Camn, who do you think is scum with Kraska?

[Ranmaru]

House who is scum with Kraska for you?

[Ranmaru]

Hmm, good point.

[Ranmaru]

What Postie said.

[Ranmaru]

That would put you at L-1. Have you been reading?

[Ranmaru]

I do too.

[Ranmaru]

Unvote

Wait for Nacho

[Ranmaru]

More than 2p.

[Ranmaru]

She has been budding house all game, I will say that.

[Ranmaru]

She dies today.

[Ranmaru]

Yes Kraska.

[Ranmaru]

[Ranmaru]

Good point Camn.

[Ranmaru]

Tell the truth Kraska. Are you scum?

[Ranmaru]

To survive. You have proven that you are anti-town to the town as possible 3p with the Spyrex kill.

[Ranmaru]

I don't remember Spyrex wanting Kraska dead. Why kill him then as solo scum? I feel like he was killed because he would not be lynched/influence.

[Ranmaru]

I made a wolfy kill yest bc I felt town was beginning to distrust me towards the end...spy was v influential and volatile so I wanted to make sure he's out so I can ensure longer survival. I was planning on making towny kills after that

He never wanted you dead though. Why would you worry about your survival when it comes to Spy?

[Ranmaru]

I am getting bored.

[Ranmaru]

Lol

[Ranmaru]

Gigantic scum upon Kraska scum

Elise is town

[Ranmaru]

I mean obviously Elise is town because Kraska tried to push her and Elise had good points albeit stretchy. Sir cakes and erroneous else she's town.

[Ranmaru]

Nacho probably scum upon kraskascum because his reads list and he tunneled elise. Need to reread him

[Ranmaru]

That makes sense now.

rip papa and postie

I am leaning towards gigantic today

Will be Vla because birthday party tho

bbl

[Ranmaru]

Camn Scum [Follows reachy Elyse argument, puts giga on cull list, votes lynch bait twice, votes hiplop, is budding with house] (#24, #33, #42, #166, #289, #328, #407, #409, #419, #531, #570, #606)

I am still under the impression scum have BP to counter a Town Dayvig. Now that Zito has flipped as mason dayvig, that points to Camn. Add to that, she is voting based on scum's reads list, instead of looking at play. The only things I do think can be legit is Kraska's actions on Day one and how she used her vote. Her reads list after being guiltied is only a means to spread misinformation.

Vote: Camn

[Ranmaru]

This makes me reconsider my read on Giga at the moment. I felt she was scum who couldn't get into the game, but now I realize she possibly was confused about Kraska's play just as Postie was. I can also see why she may be having trouble finding scum when she has one scum (Camn) as town early game and then putting her to null regardless of flip. Seeing as it's now possible town could have been fooled by Kraska's play, I have Giga as null-town. Null-town because I still can't see much else from Giga that makes her town to me, but can understand why she's having a hard time.

[Ranmaru]

VOTE: nacho
I don't have a useful result unfortunately, so going with my top scumread

Two things:

1. What happened to the result?
2. Vote Camn with me.

[Ranmaru]

I still don't get what that means Cakes. Can you clarify?
Also, read on Elyse?

[Ranmaru]

Scumreads

:

Postie scum [Acting town, fake reads, takes long to push anyone] (no reason to ask that, it was a good question)(#22, #147, #196 > #263, #226,#247, #278, #316, #333, #336, #369, #370, #422, #425) Good point #186, #458 , #660, feels like it took her a while to get around to this vote

Camn Scum [Follows reachy Elyse argument, puts giga on cull list, votes lynch bait twice, votes hiplop, is budding with house] (#24, #33, #42, #166, #289, #328, #407, #409, #419, #531, #570, #606)

Elyse scum [early 'postie fine' read, very reachy, forced, very stubborn, comments on nothing else, forced confidence, posts a lot more in her other game and seems more genuine there, House scum read is down-graded to null without a reason] (#69, #70, #74, #276, #299 , #329 [good point on camn #299])

Vote: Postie

To clarify, if you're scum Giga that means if there is a Dayvig, scum may have BP to counter it.

VOTE: nacho
I don't have a useful result unfortunately, so going with my top scumread

That is a good point. I figured scum would need the protection, but I guess getting a 2-for-1 trumps protection then? Are we thinking a total 4-man scumteam or 3-man scumteam?

[Ranmaru]

That is a good point. I figured scum would need the protection, but I guess getting a 2-for-1 trumps protection then? Are we thinking a total 4-man scumteam or 3-man scumteam?

[Ranmaru]

Unvote; Vote: Elyse

I actually agree with your argument. Also Elyse's push seems like a chain-saw (even though you haven't really attacked Kraska), which checks out as I'd look at both actions to see if it's mutual.

[Ranmaru]

If I go into more detail my role will be obvious and then it's less useful

FOS: Cakes

[Ranmaru]

Cakes.

[Ranmaru]

Yet Zito died as mason-lovers which counts as an investigative role. Cakes never full-claimed, and isn't giving any clear result today. Seeing as there is a mason-lover in the setup, it is possible scum only have goons and guessed that they could fake claim a guilty. This also gives Giga town points since she asked why Cakes investigated Kraska instead of you, his main suspect.

[Ranmaru]

1. Only as a killing role? I have seen in the wiki that masons are at least half an investigative role.
2. I still have a gripe with Cake choosing Kraska over you N1.
3. Tracker is possible but I direct you to point 2.

I'll leave it at that. If Cakes isn't the third scum then I have no solid lead if it's not Camn/Cakes. I'd need to re-read.

[Ranmaru]

Do you have reasons to think that dramonic is town? What happened to your scum read on me from yesterday?

I think between you and Elyse there is only one scum. I didn't have enough from you to conclude a solid read besides what you have already given, your drop off on the questioning of Kraska, your push on Elyse, and your vote to Dram. (Which you do twice) As I stated, I think it makes sense that Elyse is the buddy to Kraska and not you. (I don't think you would question Kraska only to drop it later on as that would give you attention as Elyse and Cakes have given you)

Dram is null for me. So no I do not have reasons to think he is town or scum. He can possibly be the third buddy.

[Ranmaru]

@

Cakez

: Why did you choose Kraska over Nacho?

[Ranmaru]

No, I want Cakes to answer.

[Ranmaru]

It would give him town-cred. I also meant 'claim' a guilty on his own team. I think a mass-claim down the line will help solve that puzzle though.

House, thoughts on Elyse?

[Ranmaru]

It counts as a killing role. A weak investigative role (like our friend Cakez the tracker) makes sense.

I can see this. I am still wondering about him choosing Kraska over you, though.

[Ranmaru]

That said, I'm not a fan of lynching Elyse d1. You can have my vote on her if she doesn't town the fuck up by d2, though.

Alright House I'll expect you to fulfill your promise today.

[Ranmaru]

I never said before your review, I just said I want I expect to see you on the wagon today. I am aware you said you'd need to review and I am reminding you of your promise to voting with me.

[Ranmaru]

I think my play does make sense today when I didn't consider Cakes being a tracker. Your play against Nacho makes sense being Kraska's buddy. Your play today is underwhelming, and you have stuck to Nacho without re-evaluating at all. When I re-evaluated you I noticed you have good points against Kraska and Camn, and like those. I still don't think you saying 'I will be so PISSED if Nacho isn't dead tomorrow' if you don't say that out of confidence. I find the forcing things null but with you attacking Kraska's attacker, I'd lean towards you being scum.

[Ranmaru]

In my quote I said Kraska pushed you, yet Nacho gave good points as to why it's a scum on scum push.

[Ranmaru]

@

Giga

: I'd like your thoughts on Elyse today.

[Ranmaru]

When you get back to the thread you should explain.

[Ranmaru]

B( ranmaru is scum... For the inverse.

Expand on that.

Think about it hiplop was scum too. Plus mermaids?

He was barely even playing.

[Ranmaru]

Talk to me about Elyse.

[Ranmaru]

I just realized your location is Sin City.

[Ranmaru]

@

Sir Cakes

: Can you go more into how Camn plays as town/scum? Thanks.
@

House

: You too if you have played with her.

[Ranmaru]

I'm dropping the cakes FOS. Nacho explained it to me and it makes sense to me now.

[Ranmaru]

Elyse

:

1. I was V/LA and posted at the end of Sunday, which explains my delay in posting as I have stated from the start of the day. The reads from before were gut reads I was trying to get out as soon as possible. Nacho debunked my Camn BP scum reasoning, so I switched to you. I agreed with his reasoning on you. My conclusion from D1 did not factor in Kraska being scum. Postie (my top scumread) dying is making me re-evaluate my reads.
2. Your attack on nacho, who was questioning Kraska. Just seemed like an over-reaction from you.
3. I think if you read the interaction between Nacho and I you'll understand.
4. I have always been asking people for thoughts since D1. I always ask people for thoughts.

[Ranmaru]

FFX AU?

Final Fantasy 10 Australia.

[Ranmaru]

House: Alright man, how's that review going?

[Ranmaru]

Probably Camn at the moment. Otherwise I don't know yet. I'll have a better idea by the end of the day. Why do you ask?

[Ranmaru]

I'm working on it Nacho. You'll see some results soon.

[Ranmaru]

As a case, this is incomplete.

You mean where I don't explain the relevance of the links? I did that purposely. I tried to keep it short and nice, showing what I thought was scum, instead of fully explaining it. This was my attempt at generally staying at a gut-level but it didn't work as the game moved along.

She put Giga on the shortlist for culling on something that seemed legitimate, but only because Postie seemed like she had a problem with, she along with it. Her #328 is suspicious since Elyse caught her with a good question and Camn had a hard time explaining it. She stated she was giving you a D1 pass yet she threw that away and was fine with joining your wagon. Her #407 shows her trying to shade House when she has been budding him earlier. For that reason, her budding of house doesn't seem genuine. (She also liked the Nacho wagon before he voted on it) Her culling comment seemed minorly opportunistic, and her decision to switch on you was opportunistic. Her votes were on lynchbait, and I think scum would prefer those over others as it's easier to target them then others who have seemed townier. Her claiming PGO reeks of scum who wants to have a reason for staying alive for the night when she's been yelling that she'd be nk'd. I think she's looking for reasons to paint people as scummy [Giga], shading [House], and has a hard time explaining her 180 on [Nacho].

[Ranmaru]

I'd rather lynch camn then Elyse if a Nacho lynch won't come together (again )

I'm down to wagon Camn over Elyse.

[Ranmaru]

VOTE: Dramonic

still reading btw

How's the read going?

[Ranmaru]

VOTE: dramonic

Proxy.

Any stances or thoughts from recent events?

[Ranmaru]

So I have been re-reading Kraska. I read my #912 and was reminded that Kraska never actually responded to Elyse's second question. That gives Elyse town points. Nacho still has the concern of asking Kraska a question and concluding it after 50 posts. Kraska added her vote to a failing wagon, but she has been pressing on Elyse for quite a bit. Asking her for reads, continuing to talk about her. I think Elyse gave good points in her #1367. Kraska reads as scum who is having trouble getting any reads so she wagons onto Elyse with bad reasoning. She also states Cake's interaction with Nacho being genuine but never states Cakes as a read. In her #351 she asks Elyse for reads but not Nacho, who she had as iffy at the time. Nacho was pushing solely on Elyse at the time and had no other reads, so why focus on Elyse to give more reads than nacho and not the other way around as well?

Elyse - slight town
House - need more from his slot
Giga - need more from his slot
Cakes - Town
Dram - need more from this slot
Nacho - Slight scum
Camn - scum

Unvote; Vote: Camn

I'm also willing to wagon Nacho.

[Ranmaru]

The argument she is making against me is that I am struggling to distance myself from the early Kraska push early.

I find this an absolutely ridiculous assertion because it was page fucking 3 and you don't need to spend significant effort distancing from an opinion on page fucking 3

.

My conclusion is that Elyse had something going yet over-stretched and gave Nacho ammo to attack her. His explanation here isn't suitable for me. It isn't valid reasoning, simply because scum don't 'need to' distance on page 3 doesn't mean they won't do it. She asked Kraska a question that Kraska never answered, therefore not closing the interaction between them. If they were both scum I would expect their interaction to be calculated, and finished. Elyse also asked her a good question there. Nacho did seem like he had an awkward interaction with Kraska, and never concluded it until 50 posts later. It was as if he was waiting for reactions/others opinions before considering his option here.

[Ranmaru]

Welcome Gamma.

[Ranmaru]

I expect you to catch up with your own thoughts here, no summary.

[Ranmaru]

House:

Votes Kraska #8
Votes Dram #10
Votes Spicy #17

---

Votes Nacho #95 (following cakes)
Votes spicy again #103
Unvotes #464
Votes Hiplop #466
Votes Nacho again #530 (Elyse town)
Votes Hiplop #584
Votes Spicy #719
Votes Postie #738
Votes Spicy #896
Votes Spicy #968
Votes Kraska #998
Votes Camn #1252
Votes Dram as proxy #1346

Now, house has been pretty active. Yet, he has had no push of his own. Or, he'd be voting stragglers when they couldn't really answer for themselves. (Hiplop) His two Nacho votes were both sheeps (Onto Sircakes, then on Elyse) #729 He states that he won't vote Elyse, Nacho, Camn, or sircakes. #641 This is to give his buddy within that pool, a chance to live to D2 without him giving a direct stance. His vote on Postie was a sheep on me. His vote on Dram was proxy. (Which wasn't even trying) I caught House with his pants down in my #1388. He then asks Elyse a question in his #1339. This shows he was lazy and my question to him reminded him he should be trying to determine her alignment. He was in the middle of reviewing Elyse and never concluded his stances. When Camn was making her push on me a page back, House only posted in jokes, not stances on what happened on that page. It's so he could keep his town read on me and whatever stance he had on Camn. I pressed him to give a stance and he replaced out.

---

Yeah it's Day 3:

having a bunch of null/scum is BAD

. I'm going to unvote for now and if I don't find Elyse or Dramonic scummier I'm voting Ranmaru.
UNVOTE:

The underlined sounds forced. If he has actually caught up and read closely, he'd understand why I would have nulls. This also shows that he is paying attention more to the current events and not really reading to catch up because he has no need to, he already has targets in mind.

FOS: House/Gamma

[Ranmaru]

I am not willing to wagon Nacho anymore.

[Ranmaru]

Nacho, I have told you I was working on developing my reads. Gamma's latest post is what I needed. Giga is still re-reading.

I think it's Camn/Gamma.

[Ranmaru]

Yes I am.

[Ranmaru]

More Camn votes please.

[Ranmaru]

@

Sir Cakes

: Because I'm more confident on Camn/Gamma today. Think it's possible Elyse v Nacho is TvT?
@

Nacho

: Did you consider that Elyse v You could be TvT? Did you consider that Kraska was focusing on Elyse!town and you!town as town to spread misinformation?

I'll get to your responses in a bit.

[Ranmaru]

Nacho - On Camn

:

1. Anything is game, I disagree with this. Everyone has their role pm's before the game starts and it influences their actions even in early game. My point is it was jumpy.

2. A day 1 pass means you give a person a pass regardless to see what they produce on the next day. If it was only on the condition the player is null the whole time you'd give them a pass anyway since you don't find them town or scummy. I don't think your wagon was good enough for her to reconsider the D1 pass. There's a reason she would give you a D1 pass and going back on it defeats that reason. Proposing the D1 pass doesn't seem genuine in the first place, due to defeating that purpose.

3. At the time it seemed like buddying to setup House. She was never trying to determine House's alignment, and the posts about his 'internal dissonance' seem more like distancing now that House's slot has shown it self to be scum. Buddying is null but if you do it without trying to determine a person's alignment, it's suspicious.

4. Not you, I was talking about Spicy and then Hiplop at the time. Her push on me. Notice how she's having a hard time responding to you now. She's only pushing me because she's in danger of death. What do you think of her response to your flip flopping point? What do you think of her lack of response to your meta/re-analyzing point?

5. Yes. Why fake claim PGO in the first place then?

[Ranmaru]

Your case on House seemed to be "House sheeped a lot".
I don't deny that it would be cool if he did his own thing ever but sheeping isn't exactly a scumtell.

That's quite the watered down version of what I was saying, man.

[Ranmaru]

I'm taking longer to reply since you have given me walls to reply to. (I am in the process of doing so) Camn only has one post to reply to. She's not trying to determine my alignment here. Her reasoning for her scumread on me is weak yet she's trying hard to stay on.

[Ranmaru]

Or at least, she moves her vote but doesn't conclude anything on me.

[Ranmaru]

And you never will. It's almost evidence that your reads are off,

if you were being honest with yourself

.

BUT I only skimmed... So maybe it makes sense somehow

.