Mini 1855: Questionable Content Mafia - Game Over!
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This is me confirming ...
that I am sorely disappointed teh Jeph Jacques character sheet did not mention his repeated battles with teh dreaded Butts Disease!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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So only 7 people have actually posted in thread by this point ...In post 13, DiamondSentinel wrote:This marks 9/12 people confirmed! Day 1 has now officially begun!
Interesting ...
Does anyone else see that spider ..."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Hey elaborating would be cool. Like what character are you?In post 17, kraska77 wrote:Hey apparently I'm a miller or sth"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Or Emily ... or Sandra (Ok, I forget her name right now but the kid of the guy Marten's Mom dated who loves snakes and the Skulllord). Or Momo.In post 30, camn wrote:Except Claire and Hanners, of course.
I mean you could really make a longer list."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Thanks for repeating basic closed Theme game theory.In post 36, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:It is very likely that scum will have safe claims.
Safe claims are characters from the comic that do not exist as roles in the game, so the scum can claim to be them and not be counter claimed.
As such, no character should ever be defined as clearing the person who claims it at any point in time. Anyone who attempts to do this will be lynched with prejudice.
Thank you.
Did anyone actually suggest people were possibly cleared by flavor claims? I don't recall seeing that."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Doesn't mean that "not morally ambiguous" characters can't be scum. I would certainly not put it past DS to make the "Assholes" be such because they have no flaws. But I'd make the Doctor a Serial Killer so ...In post 38, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:You just had an entire conversation of characters who were "not morally ambiguous".
Do I seriously need to explain why this warning was given, and remind you that it wasn't for you?
Not everything is about you.
In other words, you're so vain you probably thought that post was about you.
Who do you think on this playerlist needs that warning? Frankly the list is pretty clear of VIs as far as I can see."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Ok, time to dig into the thread with gusto …
Actually have an early gut Townread on Dunn for 54. It shows he’s interested in reading the rules and brought what could be a set-up clue (althought DS has tried to suggest otherwise) to Town’s attention. And for 111 as his mind is right where mine was reading LUV’s post.
Likewise I am getting an early scum-lean on LUV for 109 which says nothing and make a completely terrible point about LLD’s claimed post restriction being too hard to fake. Which makes no sense and might be a sign that he knows LLD isn’t scum so doesn’t think she is faking. Also very much dislike 157 and it feels like a little bit of chainsawing for a potentially inactive partner.
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My biggest suspicion right now is camn. Frankly I think both pushes she’s made so far have been weak. Now that on its own isn’t something I’d think is a solid scum tell given how early we are in the game-state. However I see some discontinuity between her posts and what she’s claiming as motivations.
First example – 70 is the original response to kraska’s vote of camn. That post out and out implies “I don’t care”. Yet at 181 she claims she is “all worked up” about kraska’s vote. There’s a large disconnect there. Also regarding kraska - I’m not sold on the whole “what did you do for ten minutes” push as making much sense. Why would scum who had just seen camn float the theory that scum confirmed via PM and then went to the scum PT instead of the thread immediately respond with “Oh, I did”. And the “oh, I’m going to write up a bunch on kraska and call them scum but then fence-sit on them while parking a gut vote on Socrates” feels very off.
Finally – given what I am seeing from LUV I’m also concerned that no sort of attempt to sort that slot comes in 181.
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@Jaelet’s talk. I’m having a hard time deciding whether I believe your 67 reads list comes from Town or not.
Why did I drop tiers in your reads list between 112 and 142 given I had no activity during that time-frame?
Also,
Why didn’t you meta dive me to see if my opening looks like Town Magna? Because I will tell you it is an absolute departure from my usual style.In post 105, JaeReed wrote:Periods aren't stiff. I just like to gut/tone read early game. Your confirmation didn't ping me as town like for example, Magna's. I went for a meta dive on both you and SpyreX and came to the conclusion it probably didn't mean anything major. Which is generally par for the course."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Yes, let's discuss.In post 205, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:How doesn't it make any sense? Not everyone has the knowledge or resources available to make sure their posts consist of good grammar.
It also doesn't seem like something someone would make up just to avoid not posting. Much easier to just fake like you're busy in real life. I think it's best if there is some sort of investigative role, to clear her. If she's scum, great. If she's town, we don't have to worry about her lack of content.
Also there is a hint in my opening post but now is not the time to talk about that.
Why do you dislike my 157? Can you think of a single reason why 3 people who haven't posted yet are on that list?
1. How does everyone not have the knowledge or resources to make sure their posts are grammatically correct? That isn't a high bar to set. More time intensive but not anything I would not expect from anyone old enough to actually be on site. I expect it from my daughter's 7th grade homework. I don't think it is a stretch to think it is a reasonable possible restriction for a game based on written communication.
2. Directing the cop? Strike one.
3. It is certainly not out of the range of scum to fabricate a post restriction that limits their communication. I direct you to Cow's ISO in a Storm of Swords. He faked a crippling post restriction and rode a dayvig of a scummy partner to a win in 3 player LYLO in a Large Theme. No reason to asssume LLD could not fake a less crippling restriction here in a Mini. Yet you are absolutely certain which to me reads knowledge she isn't scum.
4. Pointing to a breadcrumb upon no actual vote but simply the voicing of suspicion by myself? Strike two.
5. Why shouldn't a player be willing to wagon players who they are not Townreading for whatever reason? It's not like kraska's list is set in stone."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Because how wagons form are a tool town can use to get reads both on the wagonee and those who join or don't join the wagon. That's pretty basic Mafia game theory right there.In post 207, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:5.) I understand she isn't town reading them but she isn't scum reading them either. So why would town be willing to wagon someone they read as null?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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MOD – I’ll be V/LA from tonight at 4:30 EST until Monday. Thanksgiving family time and normal weekend duties. I will try to get some content into the thread but it will sporadic and phone-posted most likely.
No prob. I understand. Happy Thanksgiving!
@IAI– if you are going to make posts where you reference post numbers and are Town please use the [ post] INSERT NUMBER [ / post ] feature (with the spaces removed) to make it easier to review your references.
@Dunn– do you think kraska is scummy for Beetlejucing in 214?
I’m also interested enough by 255 to lay down a vote there.
VOTE: Camn
Because she’s just come off a large post explaining how Socrates is scum (239) yet is less than 20 posts later happy to jump on the “lynch a lurker” bandwagon? Said bandwagon first presented by her scum read Socrates?
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Oh so instead of being a completely fluff-filled entry 109 has hidden content. Why did you feel the reason to hide content? I mean if you are saying there is a breadcrumb there that is irrelevant since breadcrumbs aren’t content but tools to help support later claims.In post 207, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:4.) You said my opening post didn't say anything, I am merely correcting you that it did and if need be, I will reveal what it says. I'm also not worried about your suspicion of me.
You are wandering into straw-manning territory here by presenting very situational, narrow scenarios and using it to undermine the concept that wagon formation is a scum-hunting tool.In post 209, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:And what reaction is one supposed to get after signs of being shown the player's bandwagon that they jumped on or started is not here? I don't see what reads one can gain from someone unwilling to wagon a player who has not posted yet.
Why people jump on wagons and why they don’t is a very good analysis tool down the line.
Let’s analyse the wagon activity (or lack thereof) in this game so far. I find it interesting that we’ve already gotten to page 10 and not a single wagon above 3 votes has formed. In a 12 player game that’s less than half the lynch threshold. This is pretty unusual for Day 1 in a Mini Theme. What does that say to you?
Also, I’d very much like to see your thoughts on camn and Dunn voting for a completely absent Pisskop.
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Sven is a reasonable flavor match for a Miller – person who looks like an asshole but really wants to be a better person.In post 211, I Am Innocent wrote:Re Spyrex's Post 40 believing kraska's claim matches her flavor, do others familiar with this theme agree?
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Can you elaborate on why you think this because this is pretty moonbeams and I don’t get the sense from the rest of your posts that you are a moonbeams sorta guy.In post 222, Socrates wrote:MOI is really hung up on Lady's post restriction.
The game has been open a whopping 26 or so hours when you made this. You are ready to start murdering “lurkers” before people can even be due a prod?In post 252, Socrates wrote:I'm starting to get to the point where I just want to murder some lurkers.
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Um camn I’m not sure if I buy this. You often hydra with Katsuki for heavens sakes … you can’t really expect me to believe a few rhetoric posts are enough to set you off to such a degree. I mean – here are all the posts from kraska that might fit that profile from 70 to 181.In post 239, camn wrote:Yea- its the stuff BETWEEN 70 and 181 that torqued me. All the MOAR VOTES HERE nonsense.
That’s it. That is the only post where kraska does anything remotely like “MORE CAMN VOTES”. And even then it’s not completely empty there are reasons attached.In post 118, kraska77 wrote:Hey guys camn needs more votes
The way she approached jae shows she's not interested in pressing them for content
Instead of poking jae about the weird comments on Socrates, all she does is call jae scum
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I didn’t find the reads themselves made much sense. This has all been parsed before but the Socrates read there was really, really odd. I mean I’m not much of a tone-reader but nothing about the post he made said “stiff” to me.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:wrt 67 what don't you like about my early reads? Just the simple fact I gave reads early, or do you disagree with the reads & thoughts?
And I don’t grok the “Dunn is reaction testing” stance as reaction testing is not something scum do in my mind. Reaction testing at the heart is making posts and trying to read who people react to learn alignments. Scum (especially in a 12 person mini which we know isn’t multiball) don’t need to do that.
Finally too many of your presented reads are not that. Dunn / Spyrex / LLD / Kraska / Socrates are all basically fence-sits. The only actual reads given are Camn and myself. The rest are basically filling space but say nothing concrete at all to judge your posting buy.
Well then I have a problem then. In your first reads list I was in the top tier. In the second I was in the second tier. If you are saying that your tiered lists don’t’ actually translate to set reads (first slot is Strong Town, second slot is weak Town, etc) then I question the point of a lists as you have presented them.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:You didn't drop in tiers between 112 and 142. Other people moved around you when I did my reread after cooling off a bit.
Name games where you have seen me before then.In post 246, JaeReed wrote:I didn't feel particularly off with your entry so I didn't dive you. Even if I had, I probably wouldn't have bothered to do a dive, as I've seen you play before.
--"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Yeah but that has little to do with me being "hung up" on LLD's claimed restriction and 100% to do with LUV's posts looking suspect.In post 287, Socrates wrote:Your suspicion about LUV's attitude about the post restriction in posts 204 and 206. It did make up a significant chunk of your words at that point.
So I'm not sure how that translates in me being overly worried about LLD's claim."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Um whut? Parse this with less generic descriptions please.In post 290, Socrates wrote:Yeah, attacking the guy who responds favorably to the post restriction to keep the door open for a future mislynch as scum. It's not a strong scum-tell, just something I noticed.
Also why did you originally say I was hung up on LLD's restriction then if you recognize that it completely isn't about her claimed restriction?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Ssshhh ... don't let anyone know ...In post 289, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:It is because you love me, MagnaofIllusion."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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I idly wonder why there is not a single scenario in your mind where scum has a post restriction ....In post 292, Socrates wrote:Scum sees townie with post restriction. Wants to keep them around because restricted townie makes their life easier and makes for a juicy target late game. Scum sees other player accept post restriction, gives them a slap about it because they don't want the town to just accept the restriction but aren't going to attack it directly."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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So back from V/LA …
At this stage I’m heavily leaning that LUV is a good scum candidate. His posting lacks any drive to find and identify scum. Review his ISO to see what I mean – lots of “don’t know about this” posting. The only real conclusions he has offered are Town reads (some which make little sense) which are easy for scum to provide. And I want to go back to his immediate “Oh, I breadcrumbed” drop made under literally zero pressure. If LUV is Town he’s basically made himself a target for scum killing or blocking with no reason to have done so. Still feels very suspect to me.
IAI’s flake I’m going to assign a “Null” assessment to. He hasn’t posted elsewhere since his last post here. I’m glad it is Aristo replacing in as if he’s scum he will make it clear shortly.
VOTE: Jae
See below for more details on why I am there …
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In post 377, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:I'm leaning toward voting Socrates right now since all he's done is made a very weak case on Jae that's been easily picked up apart a few times already. He also doesn't seem to understand the town motivation in one trying to better appeal or understand a person.@Spyrex– I want a sanity check on this from LUV. Does this post say to you “Newb scum who doesn’t want to get accused of wagonning”?
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My issue isn’t that you are like him – it’s that you first hand should know that play along the lines of “Repetition Rhetoric” isn’t inherently scummy on its own since you have seen Kats use it as Town I’m sure. I’m still trying to decide if your back-away is Town or not.In post 299, camn wrote:And c) I hydrad with Kastuki to learn to be LESS sensitive over things! To fight my natural instincts. I'm not like him. I just try to be But I admit it- I was just being catty. It was silly.
Yes. What possible alignment relevance do you think a possible change to his sig would have?In post 348, camn wrote:Opportunistic deflection.
Wait...was your Sig that at the beginning of this game?
Also – why don’t you elaborate on 418 specifically on Jae, Dunn and kraska. I disagree with all three of those on a fundamental level.
Also please sell me on why 440 is not an epic level mis-rep in setting up that scum can’t have weak reasoning to suspect someone. Because that’s crap on a stick and I think you should know that.
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My opening here is in no way, shape or form similar to my play that game. Nevermind that I didn’t even start posting there til Day 2. Your original answer as to why you didn’t ISO dive me compared to Socrates doesn’t seem to hold water based on this info.In post 302, JaeReed wrote:Game. Just one. Open 637, beeboy's Fire and Ice. You replaced Io. I was reading that game because Ranger was in it (in a hydra with RC).
You are completely off the rails. I don’t care that you didn’t have a read based on Dunn’s post. My issue is that you called it a reaction test at all. Again – Town do reaction tests, scum don’t. You called it a reaction test on its face. I’m having a hard time reconciling that your post left no room for Dunn being scum and voting opportunistically.In post 302, JaeReed wrote:Reaction testing is only town indicative with follow up. I couldn't give a read on whether he's town or scum following what I thought was a reaction test at the time when I still hadn't seen his conclusions reached from it. I'm having a hard time buying that you seriously believe I should have had a solid read on him off a reaction test that I hadn't seen follow up to at the time.
So you think his posting is Town what effectively it is OMGUS to everyone who looks at him sideways along with empty shit-posting? That is all that had happened by the time you wrote this.In post 353, JaeReed wrote:Eh, I'm not feeling pisskop. I actually liked his reaction to being scumread. The whole "you need to learn the differences" thing.
Please elaborate on your LUV Town read. I’d be very interested in what posts you think warrant that read.In post 362, JaeReed wrote:{Dunnstral, kraska}
{camn, Uzi}
{pisskop}
{IAI, Magna, SpyreX}
{Nacho, LLD}
{Socrates}
Ok, this is probably scum posting.In post 364, JaeReed wrote:Also like even if you did go to talk in the scum pt first there's nothing to say you confirmed before the game actually began and not just before you made your first post in thread, y'know?
Ok, so what posts of kraska’s made you uneasy?In post 367, JaeReed wrote:I won't say kraska hasn't had posts lately that made me feel uneasy about her but the point is I was pretty certain she was town earlier on and even her latest posting still isn't enough to change my viewpoint on that. I think she's just on the wrong path and needs to take a step back and look at your motivation behind the posts a bit more."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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I want to see more actual content from Nacho. The McNuggets style surface level quips don’t do it for me. As an example I mean 478 is just bad.
I’m not lynching Socrates today after reading 466.
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Meh. I mean to get to there when he basically goes “I CRUMBED” when I did the forums equivalent of accidently bumping into him in the hallway is a pretty large chasm to me …In post 461, SpyreX wrote:@moi
I'm filled with doubt because i see the whole i crumbed and go thats soo a baby townbjrd"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Sorry. It was nice being friends while it lasted I guess ...In post 497, Nachomamma8 wrote:moi if you just compared my posts to mcnuggets then we can't be friends anymore
But yeah - reading your posts makes me want to reach for a side of BBQ or Buffalo to dip in."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Nacho is a big ball of unhappiness for my stomach. I expected more from him in his posting today. In fact he’s doing exactly what troubles me about LUV – making very safe calls (Town reads, as previously stated, are the easiest reads for scum to make) and not engaging to a degree I expect as Town Nacho. I have to go read some recent games to see how Day 1 Nacho read to me there. I mean 491 makes me think scum Nacho. You can’t call kraska’s summary on Camn the vaguest case ever when your Town read on Camn is “She’s happy”. And the reasoning that Camn isn’t capable of sticking out her neck is bad. Camn is very competent. Kraska’s response at 498 is accurate.
Also on a good note I’m seeing lots of relational posting that will help long term. I need to go look up that old Buffy game to be sure but I’m leaning that Nacho and Camn aren’t partners. And LUV is not a Ari partner after 522.
Dislike most of 523 for attempting to characterize what is clearly kraska’s posting style in all his games as somehow scum-indicative.
@Camn– any reason you responded to 493 but didn’t think to respond to my questions in 460?
Oh and my vote stays absolutely parked on Jae for reasons below and 518. There is no reason given all his words in 512 about how I am making bad pushes and contrived posts for him not to be voting me given he specifically asks for reasons for Ari to be scum in 515. Clearly he doesn’t see Ari as scum (given 515) but is willing to maybe vote him over someone he clearly reads as scum in me? He’s afraid of being called out for OMGUS given his read on me as scum has developed after I started pushing him.
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I honestly don’t see why you think your posting should be impressive to Socrates. Clearly his playstyle and yours are vastly different.In post 476, pisskop wrote:Ive been pretty standard Kop, Id argue.
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I don’t get the sense he’s looking behind posts for motivation myself. I’ve already said myself that his whipsaw “LLD is Town no-one would fake such a difficult Post Restriction” stance is bad as it ignores plenty of possibilities of LLD as scum that are very reasonable. And he clearly has shown no interest in going to read the game I linked to as he has completely dropped the subject. To me this shows someone molding stances not actually scum-hunting. And that’s just the first example.In post 512, JaeReed wrote:That's the way he plays I think. I need to check his scum game to see if it's alignment indicative at all but currently him coming across as fence sitting and as more like he's trying to be the peacemaker is what I have seen from him in our previous game where he was town. When I read his posts I get the impression that he's looking for motivation behind people's postings, which is what town do.
See my issue is that I can’t see any consistency to the reasons you are giving for why you did meta diving on some players and not others. My opening this game was exceeding a-typical for MoI of any alignment. I’m sure Nacho can attest to that. And it clearly bears little resemblance to anything I did in Fire and Ice. I also still can’t connect at all to your thought process that Socrates entrance was “stiff”. In Large part I get the sense you were looking for posts you could characterize as suspect as opposed to really being interested in play-style departures.In post 512, JaeReed wrote:What? I DIDN'T SAY THAT'S WHY I DIDN'T DIVE YOU. I didn't dive you because YOUR OPENING DIDN'T FEEL STIFF TO ME. I said I wouldn't have dived you if I DID have a problem with it because I can remember the way you posted in Fire and Ice. Like, you're the one who focused on the add-on to it rather than the actual reason and asked for what games I've seen you in as though that was even relevant to the reason I didn't decide to dive you where I decided to skim SpyreX and Socrates.
Your stance that he’s Town for ‘tone’ which is completely playstyle dependent is another reason I don’t see you as honestly drawing reads.In post 512, JaeReed wrote:No. I thought his tone was town because it's very much a "wow you guys suck at reading me" unapologetic tone. I don't think I actually saw any OMGUS from him back then either?
And you don’t see OMGUS in these exchanges?
308 – 309
314 – 315
Literally OMGUS at its finest. Doesn’t make him scum but clearly isn’t Town either. NAI.
It is scum posting simply because you are trying to downplay that there is any reason for scum to talk pre-game. Scum have tons of reasons to coordinate pre-game. Sharing strengths weakness of Town players that they know. Coordinating how they are going to claim if pressured. Sharing theories about the Town make-up based on their known roles. The list of reasons goes on and on.In post 512, JaeReed wrote:What about that is scum posting? Because now it's seeming like you're just flinging stuff at the wall to see if it sticks. I'm also pretty sure that in context this was relevant to a discussion we were having, and I feel like you've kinda ripped it out of context? Still don't see how it would be scum posting regardless.
Yet you ‘in context’ were downplaying that there were players who confirmed to open the game yet didn’t first come to the main thread to post as meaningless. It isn’t.
@Nacho– I’d specifically like you to weigh in on the last point I made and what you think of Jae given that."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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I don’t particularly care whether it “helps you” or not to claim your flavor. I can see very few Pro-Town reasons for a flavor mass-claim request that don’t start with the requestor making their own claim right up front.In post 547, Dunnstral wrote:Because it doesn't help me honestly
But just to be fair I'll claim as well, I'm Faye
I’m Marten. Sorry to everyone that I got the cool main character and you didn’t! *
* - Disclaimer … I’m not actually sorry.
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Well the fact that I’ve expressed unhappiness with the depth of Nacho’s contributions so far should cover this generally. Is there any reason you think Nacho should be mentioning you? He doesn’t mention me either or most of the player-list in that post.In post 533, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:What do you think about Nacho's opening posts not commenting on Lady Lambdadelta, MagnaOfIllusion?
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This response doesn’t make me any more confident about your alignment LUV. My beef with you is that you’ve given little in the way of reads and what I was giving you credit for you are now arguing you were not actually giving. So you are basically saying “I’m providing even less readable content than you are suggesting MoI” which is not good.In post 536, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:@Magna: You keep saying I've given out town reads when if you read my ISO I clearly have not. I just said it be quite difficult for someone to fake that restriction due to how challenging it is for the average person to type grammatically correct. I will admit that I have thought about it some more and I'm starting to think giving such a restriction is sort of bastard for scum. Scum do want to stay under the radar but also want to be able to look town by faking content and I don't see the average person being able to do that with such a restriction. This leads me to think mods wouldn't give scum such a restriction. Just a theory though. I'm still unsure about LLD's alignment which is why I strongly still encourage an investigate role to confirm her.
Who are your Town reads? Who are your scum reads?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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We've had claims of Sven, Faye, May, Dora and Marten made before Spyrex claimed Bubbles. We also had a soft of Mrs. Reed from Nacho.
Half the game has flavor claimed so at this point no reason not to finish the deal.
And sorry Spyrex - Bubbles is cool but only has been in the last 200 or so strips. Marten has been being awesome for 3K+ strips. I mean ... maybe you could make a Hannelore argument if you were her ..."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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That's not your character flavor although I know who you are talking about I think ...In post 560, pisskop wrote:Im Chibi AI, not quite and asshole
"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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This is a note to say I’ve seen 561 and I’m specifically not responding unless someone in my Town reads feels it is important. I think the discussion back and forth has reached the point where it is clear we aren’t going to reach any sort of common ground and I’m not going to waste time debating things with him (for example that Tone reading is crap) that leads nowhere given neither of us are going to change our philosophies. Jae remains a strong scum read for me.
I also want to note about 561 – it establishes that Jae and LUV are not likely partners.
Waiting for Pisskop, Nacho (although he’s more or less claimed it but I’d like a straight out flavor claim rather than TeeHee look at my crumbs posting on the issue), LLD, Ari and LUV to finish the mass flavor only claim at this stage so I can evaluate what Dunn’s motives were when he explains the reasons.
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Who shouldn’t be surprised? You are quoting Dunn who is the one who started the flavor claim so I’m sure he wasn’t surprised ….In post 572, Nachomamma8 wrote:This lays groundwork for the mass flavor claim business, so if you were surprised about it, you shouldn't have been.
Answer me this on Jae then Nacho – do you really see him as that strongly Town. If Ari is scum (which I’ve given him enough time to demonstrate he isn’t by not playing directly to his scum meta) what do you think of Jae’s “maybe I’ve vote Ari who I have no actual scum read on or maybe I’ll vote MoI who I’ve called scum repeatedly” dithering as coming from Town?In post 584, Nachomamma8 wrote:MoI I would invite you to join but we all know you move when you're damn ready and I know you have a particular dislike for continuous promises and repeated not doing shit and you're about to get two handfuls of that shortly.
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It’s one of my two character breadcrumbs I laid down on the first page.In post 587, camn wrote:Hey Moi what was this about?
Here’s the link to the strip in question Library Spider
Are you still avoiding answer those questions I asked in 460 for a reason?
Also, what made you ask this 500+ posts later?
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Where is my dislike button for this post ….In post 603, Socrates wrote:We are not allowing Aristophanes to die without posting.
Replace him, if need be."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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As said above I am on board with Ari scum - he's basically playing to his scum meta which I've identified him by in the past. The only reason I'm not voting him or saying "Intent" is DS hasn't posted a Vote Count in awhile and I'm not for Lolhammering.
Mod: There haven't been enough votes for me to deem it necessary but since you request, I'll post one ASAP."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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VOTE: Arist
L-1 people.
This.In post 628, Nachomamma8 wrote:My approach with Aristo is based on experience; I've been scumpartners with him once, everyone knew that he lurked as scum, everyone picked up on him lurking as scum, scumpartners told him to post more, he essentially couldn't
Princess Bride Mafia was this too a tee. He was in a hydra with Something Smart and my partner and lurked even thought he acknowledged it would get him scum read.
Look at posts 75 in the Mafia PT as an example of my frustration with Arist (and SS also). And at one point SS even tossed around the idea of faking a Arist post to get people to stop reading his lurking as scum behavior."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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This is actually the best evidence yet I've seen for Socrates scum. There is absolutely no reason for him to be "Nacho's taking too long, hang'em high" and then later the same game day to be "Don't hang Aristo for lurking ... let him be replaced".In post 639, Nachomamma8 wrote:
Is there a reason why you're torches and pitchforks when it comes to me and warm cuddles and dancing in the rain when it comes to Aristo? If you're his scumpartner, then it's probably time to just let him go. You can try to tie me to him while I'm busy lynching your other partner.In post 256, Socrates wrote:
How much longer should we give Nacho before we kill him?In post 253, SpyreX wrote:Half and half. I'm not passionate but i dont have something revving my desires yet"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Yes, I get they were blatantly obvious hints. Just like LLD just did. My point is if there is already a mass-flavor claim underway I don't see the reason to not just say it as opposed to saying-it-but-not-saying-it. I mean anyone who can use Wikipedia or TvTropes can figure out even if they have no flavor knowledge.In post 653, Nachomamma8 wrote:
I am your mother, Veronica Reed (also known as Veronica Vance in my line of work). I am unsure why that needed to be said considering my crumbs were less crumbs and more "I AM VERONICA REED" in bright green lettering but if it makes you feel better, then I'm doing my job.In post 551, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I’m Marten. Sorry to everyone that I got the cool main character and you didn’t! *
And no, I will not take a picture with your dildo.
Are you trying to get Spyrex to lolhammer Ari to make him feel better about missing out on his page 10 speed lynch?In post 659, Nachomamma8 wrote:well this time you got to wait for me to catch up in thread and be my beautiful self and if we didn't wait for Aristo to replace in we would have missed out on taking the easy layup which we might still miss if you don't fix your failvote and make it a proper L-1
Because I already put him at L-1."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Let me also say for the record I'm mildly insulted by this after TV Kids Mafia ...In post 611, Nachomamma8 wrote:If you're posturing for suspicion on me, I'd recommend dropping your "sheep to read" method and instead going all-in on getting me lynched; my dancing partners of late have been more frustrating than competent and it'd be a nice change of pace to deal with someone with a sense of rhythm"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Things I want to say before this locks ...
Ari obviously is scum. Pretty clear case of scum motivated hammer. I have to look back since I'm rushing via phone to post this but whoever said "how do you know he's scum" shot up my scum read list - very much looks like attempting to stake ground for tomorrow on whoever they were responding to. Also LUV actually looks better from the way that hammer developed for reasons that should be pretty obvious. I really want to see what he flips given that his claimed character probably is one of the biggest assholes in the cast.
Dunn's claim probably means he is either a limited fruit vendor or a motivator. Personally I'd say Spyrex should be his target tonight."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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LUV get’s immediate up-front-posting for these two comments / questions.
1. LUV – you need immediately to specifically claim that your “immune to all night actions” affirmatively includes Nightkills. Before you answer “I’m not sure” check with DS directly.
2. Why, regardless of the answer to question 1, did you not immediately claim your Ascetic status Day 1?
I’m holding my vote until these get answered.
Also – 778 has got to be the worst breadcrumb offered that I have ever seen. Literally randomly bolding letters in a post with no inherent pattern to it is not breadcrumbing. I could form Cop easily as well as Doctor easily. Hell I could form “I like butts” if I wanted. The fact that not a single one of you even commented on that makes me sad.
I also have a very hard time believing that Town LUV didn’t give out at the very least number 3 to a scum suspect from his list at 793.
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In post 772, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:Quick skim of his ISO leads me to believe that if Magna and/or Socrates had reason to kill Nacho.
I’d really like to see your reasoning for why you keep claiming Nacho’s death points to me. Please elaborate.In post 826, Lil Uzi Vert wrote:pedit:Camn: I was going to give out that invention but I decided not to last minute. I wanted more info and the Nacho kill while puzzling, makes me feel confident in one of my reads and has made me suspect MoI.
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So is there anyone in the game you think would not qualify with knowing Nacho is a tough mislynch? And would have not learned that in the scum PT?In post 777, camn wrote:BUT- I wouldn't discount the idea that one of us players who has played with nacho a ton killed him off. I know I fit into that category.. but its true. We all know he is a difficult mislynch, and kind of terrifying when he is on point. So I wouldn't rule out a pre-emptive strike here. Or grudgekill, LLD?
So why don’t you even consider he is lying about the inventor claim given the very dubious breadcrumb and lack of Night 1 action?In post 816, camn wrote:conclusion 2: Uzi is probably town, cuz if scum he DEFINITELY gives out some power to his buddy. Unless he is lying about it, and actually did. Probably its not a fakeclaim cuz we can force him to prove it, right?
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Ok how much experience do you actually have here on MS? Inventor is a pretty non-oddball role that is very commonly Town (but can be either alignment)? Have you never seen one in all the games you have played / read here?In post 791, JaeReed wrote:Uhhh, but that claim looks really scummy? He can make up items to give to people is how I read that. That's a scum role on EM.
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So you think I was more obv-Town and a better kill … yet you have me as probably scum today.In post 812, kraska77 wrote:Also good to see im not the only one who thinks killing nacho over moi is weird
Walk me through that kraska …
Did you commute last Night kraska?In post 837, kraska77 wrote:I'm also 1 shot commuter
Game could potentially end up with hqlf the town being untargettable if what hes saying is true
Which is why it's not"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Well let’s get the important part out of the way first …
VOTE: Lil Uzi
I wanted him to confirm actively that he was claiming to be fully Immune to Nightkills. His confirmation of such tells me there is zero chance he is a Town role when taking into account my own role, his claim and claimed ability to give out a One-Shot Bulletproof. I’m not even considering whether kraska’s claimed 1 Shot Commute is true or not.
So he’s flipping either Asshole or some oddball third party role. That much I’m sure of. I say third party due to 867 … that I’m positive is due to me asking DS to confirm that the following language from the OP made third parties impossible …
I asked him to confirm that he meant there was not possibility of third party roles. DS refused to do so.In post 0, DiamondSentinel wrote:Setup Specific Rules and Details:
There are confirmed to be 2 factions in this game. Not-Quite-Assholes and Assholes. Their win-conditions are simplified (they are expounded upon later in the rules), but are as follows in the role PMs.
Not-Quite-Assholes - You win when all Assholes are out of the game, or nothing can prevent this from occurring.
Assholes - You win when you control 50% of the town or nothing can prevent this from happening.
Frankly I'd not be surprised if LUV flipped some 3rd party role. It would explain his complete reserved posting which I have been reading as nervous Newb scum afraid to make a wrong move. But in any case I know he isn't flipping Town.
Camn’s 884 and 887 are so bad I can’t decide if she’s chainsawing for Uzi or not. He flips Asshole and Camn should be absolutely lynched tomorrow if not killed somehow overnight if Town has the capacity.
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No worries … I’ve got pretty thick skin. If you would like to discuss further tomorrow (assuming we both live) I’ll certainly be willing to.In post 882, JaeReed wrote:@MoI sorry this was actually kinda jerkish and narrow-minded of me. I was being a crank :/"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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He’s not as high on my list as he was pre-lynch Day 1. I’m grappling with my read being tainted by my drawing an initial impression of his play that set up expectations he definitely didn’t meet once we got into Day 1.
After Uzi I think Camn and Socrates would be where I’d likely go next pending an Asshole or 3rd party flip.
See this is where I’m having trouble connecting with your logic. You are saying I dropped with you to not be a Town read. Do you think others were Town reading me despite you not agreeing (and clearly Jae also was not Town reading me)?In post 899, kraska77 wrote:not really...you kinda plummeted in my lists on day 1 from town to null after your jae push
i just thought that if scum were going for a high profile kill or sth outside the robot pool then if ure town, you make a lot more sense than nacho as a kill
you were more present and involved on day 1. nobody was particularly townreading nacho as far as i remember...i find it weird that they'd kill him over you if youre both town"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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So time to look for crumbs of Jae’s Night 1 investigation …
Here’s the scoop on why I hammered LUV – his claimed role I didn’t see possible in the scope of the game. See I am Bulletproof – no X shot or whatever. Full BP. So I felt that LUV claiming himself to be immune to Nightkills and able to hand out a 1-Shot BP was inordinately overkill.
So this is an important reason why lying as Town is bad which I hope LUV takes to heart.
Anyway I claimed since there is no chance I’m getting shot by scum after yesterday.
Also ...
VOTE: Camn
I'll lay out why I think this in a later post ..."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Also – with Jae’s flip I think it is pretty clear that Arist was probably the equivalent Goon for the scum team.
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So looking through his ISO this is the strongest Innocent crumbs I can see –
815 and 824 – welcome to basically Confirmed Town land Pisskop.
And looking at Jae’s posting day two regarding how LUV and Dunn conflicted I think it is entirely possible that unless scum have a RoleCop that is why Jae may be dead."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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I assume just fine. To paraphrase the wording in my Role Pm - everyone loves me so any killing action targeting me will fail. And Arist's PM specifically says his kill "targets".In post 912, Socrates wrote:Prev-Edit: Magna, How does your BP interact with poison? I forget how that tends to work.
And your case on Camn better be fucking rock solid, because your snipes at her was as bad as she herself was saying.
As for your threat - spare me Socrates. I get lynched today for hammering a lie that contradicted my own role I get lynched. I made peace with that the second LUV flipped Town. But my flip will give credence to my case whether you find it "rock solid" or not."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Well either vote me or don't. Your going HMMMM really is of little interest to me.In post 918, Socrates wrote:The hammer on a lie that was contradicting your stated role is the only thing you have going FOR you, Magna, since he WAS lying. It's everything else surrounding the hammer that makes me go HMMMMM.
Also Pro-Tip - I was not the first person to bring up the concept of LUV being 3rd party. What do you think about that?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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You really are rusty aren't you. You think me blandly telling you "Vote me or not" is melodramatics? I mean - that's pretty bad. If I get lynched due to LUV lying I get lynched. Life goes on. I'll make my Camn case and my Town flip with posthumously make it clear it is coming from a Town perspective.In post 922, Socrates wrote:Really? I missed this. Who? And when?
And your melodramatics about my suspicion is not helping.
Well you missed it because you couldn't see it - I was LLD's best friend. Although that was only for yesterday and last Night. Now she has a new best friend. In fact that the only reason I even asked DS to confirm the possibility of third parties (which happened in the PT) whic led to his post was because LLD said basically "Yeah, he's third party".
And if camn somehow isn't scum LLD would be my first choice. She ostensibly Neighborized me to "sort" me as her biggest question mark but really did nothing to prod conversation between us."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Explaining why I thought he was likely 3rd party if not scum is not "supporting evidence". The only reason I needed to hammer him was him claiming being immune fully immune to Nightkills and able to hand out a 1-Shot BP also.In post 925, Socrates wrote:I'll be sure to keep this in mind, but my problem wasn't the idea of Uzi being third party. It's that you used the fact that the mod wouldn't confirm the presence of a third party as supporting evidence for the hammer!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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You seriously think I'm panicking? Lol.In post 924, Socrates wrote:And the thing I'm getting at here is that this hole you've dug isn't as deep as you seem to think it is. Especially when you claimed to have a thick skin. But maybe you wouldn't realize this if you ARE scum? Do you panic this easily as scum?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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No, not really. Being realistic is not panicking. Panicking would be going ALLCAPs yelling about how stupid everyone was for voting me blah blah blah.In post 928, Socrates wrote:Your whole thing about thing about how you've "made peace with your mislynch but I hope my case on Camn will live on!" and then throwing insults at me is the very definition of panicking.
The fact you continue to try to frame my posting as worried or panicking is suspect Socrates."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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MOD – I will be V/LA starting at 3pm EDT today until Monday morning as normal. Also activity today may be spotty as I have some unforeseen complications to my regular schedule.
Given my activity restrictions today my Camn case presentation will have to wait until Monday at the earliest.
Now that we’ve had more WTF claim contradictions I’m moving pisskop from Confirmed Town to Town. If even half the claims on the table are correct then a Godfather is an absolute possibility and thus a Cop Innocent is not 100%.
And let’s talk about the claims. Flipped Roles
Aristo (Beatrice) – Basically a Goon with alternate kill method and vote restrictions.
Nacho (Veronice) – 1 Shot Sensor
LUV (John) – 2 Shot Inventor (1 each of 1Shot BP, 1ShotRB, 2Day Kill preventor) and Ascetic
Jae (Dora) – Cop
Then we have the following claims
MoI – Full BP
LLD – Neighborizor (claims multiple targets, each last 1 Day and Night cycle)
Kraska – 1 Shot Commuter Miller
Socrates – 1 Shot Commuter with some drawback
Camn – 1Shot Neighborizing Modified Hider
Dunn – Very vague Robot Upgrader
I’m having a hard time buying camn’s claim as stated. Firstly the logic of “scum would choose to tree-stump me” falls majorly flat since it is effectively a guilty in her logic and would make her able to report said guilty. On top of a full Cop and a 1-Shot Sensor that seems pretty questionable. Also “It’s 1 Shot and I’ve failed to use it twice but now it’s gone” seems pretty weak.
@Camn– who did you try to Neighborize each Night?
@Socrates– why didn’t you claim your drawback Day 1?
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No, not really. I’m flat out stating that your reasoning for claiming my hammer was bad (discussing the question about 3rd party possibilities and the Mod not confirming or denying) are pretty nonsensical given the actualities of the game-state. That’s NAI as having bad reasoning isn’t solely a Town or Scum trait.In post 930, Socrates wrote:But you ARE implying that I'm stupid for voting you in a very backhanded way.
Did you actually read the Mod snippet I posted? I asked him to confirm that the language as written was meant to signify only two alignments (as it does as stated) or if he meant it to mean “at least two alignments” which would allow for 3rd parties. Given he refused to comment left the option open for 3rd party roles.
Why, if you think I’m scum, do you believe anything I said about the PT without my flip?In post 942, Socrates wrote:Considering Magna's description of their interactions, I might be willing to believe that LLD is the odd one out, but how does neighborizer fit with you supposedly being an upgrade-able robot?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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So first … catching back up on the thread …
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Noted. The fact that you are claiming to have an exhausted 1 Shot ability (which you claimed to have tried to use twice and failed each time) that you refuse to claim actual targets for says to me you are lying to some degree. Not that hard a parse Camn.In post 965, camn wrote:You need more votes if you want a full claim from me.
My claim is an unrovoked counterclaim. If you think I made it up... that is interesting.
This I think needs highlighted for the discontinuity it has to Camn’s claimed suspicion and vote. She continues to vote Spyrex (with hints, of course, that she will back off is he does) and call him a suspect. This post on looks very much to me like “Building in the excape hatch” for when one of the other Robots flips Town.In post 970, camn wrote:I would think that too... But everything seems wrong.
We are failing with our setup speculation.
Of course you do. No reason at all to suspect a Godfather with as much Town power as has already flipped.In post 984, camn wrote:I believe the result. And the sanity rules are strict now, right?
I am town too.
Which leaves Spyrex.
Or a fakeclaimed 4th robot.
Or all robots town.
Town Camn isn’t this bad to absolutely ignore the glaring neon sign flashing to all Town players about the possibility. Nope. Yet Camn doesn’t even blink in that direction. Nope … just buddies right up to pisskop while pretending that Spyrex Town automatically means all Robots are Town.
This will play into my case on Camn whenever I can get to it but look at this and tell me with a straight face that Aristo with a fully flavored fake-claim didn’t bother to use it? Not like he was caught unaware … the mass flavor claim came in WELL before he was lynched.In post 1003, camn wrote:My flavor fits like a glove, though. DS did his research. I would be surprised at any flavor mismatches....though I also anticipate full flavor fake claims. Not that people always use them.
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Consider this your “Monday is a day after Sunday is a day after Saturday” reminder Spyrex.In post 967, SpyreX wrote:Actually I'm pondering something. I think i prefer tomorrow but something about the setup just clicked. Remind me about this.
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My issue is that a true Negative Utility role should always be claimed Day 1 right out of the gate. Just like kraska did. Maybe you are Town who thinks they are too good to play by the book. Maybe not.In post 976, Socrates wrote:Because I wanted the scum to try to kill me, otherwise my role is useless. and besides, I at least USED to be more than capable of rolling with this particular drawback without it ever becoming an issue. Maybe that isn't orthodox town play, and maybe I'm not the player I used to be, but it's the truth.
Rest assured, if I felt like it needed to be shared, I would share it.
Yes, we do. I don’t really care if you like it or not or suspect me or whatever. I’m trying to sort you. Part of that is digging into you and getting reactions. For the most part the main reason you aren’t at the top of my scum list for your Day 1 play is thatIn post 976, Socrates wrote:Do we really have to play this silly game?
1. I’m reading Camn as my top suspect.
2. I don’t think you are partners.
3. I find it unlikely (but possible) that scum you would soft-chainsaw for Arist as you did right before his lynch.
That doesn't mean I should cast a blind eye towards your slot in case my Camn read is incorrect."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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As long as two players can confirm independently that Dunn’s role actually works then he’s pretty solidly Town in my book. Otherwise he would be scum who locked themselves into a Day 1 claim about improving Town’s power overall given that scum Dunn means at most one of the robots is scum. The mass flavor claim Day 1 also gets Town points given his claim.
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What you choose to do with your own robotic body is no concern of mine but maybe broadcasting it so publicly makes you look a little trashy Camn
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Why? Something more than a pithy one-liner might be appropriate in this circumstance.In post 1011, SpyreX wrote:I really think it's kop
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I’ve given you some wide latitude given your early Miller claim but the laziness in this post is making me doubt now.In post 1013, kraska77 wrote:Let's lynch pisskop then
Whatever he flips ( I think he'll flip scum), we drop the whole there's scum in the robots deal after
Or lynch MoI....can't really see anyone else as scum
How many scum do you think are in the game?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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So now that Camn case I have been talking about.
I’ll keep this as concise as possible …
1. IAI and Camn interactions.
IAI (scum) begins catchup at 211. Generally not much to say on Camn other than assessing her vote at 61 is good. Nothing definitive in the completed catchup at 237. So Camn is basically a non-entity.
But let’s examine Camn’s reaction – 238 and 239. There is more or less an hour between these and I think that’s telling. 238 is basically “OMG, IAI is so scummy for that IIoA”. She retracts this in 239 saying “catchups are always scummy looking”. I think this highlights Camn having inside information given the reaction in 238. The immediate vote when she had posted nothing about the slot before feels very much like “Better get on board the bus early” gut reaction to a bad series of posts by IAI. Yet after some reflection she backs off saying “Cold Catchups are always scummy … give IAI some time”. Which is a rational back-track for a partner when she got no immediate reaction to her “GO GO GO” lynch previous post.
Then in 299 we get “IAI is still scummy but I prefer a pisskop vote” which is textbook Suspect Partner, vote Town.
2. Camn and Aristo interactions.
There are really none until the point that Aristo is getting lynched. And the fact that Aristo lurking is his scum meta and Camn’s love for lurker lynches (see 255) I would expect some pressure on Arist from Camn. Instead we get the pre-flip posturing seen in 693.
Meanwhile Aristo doesn’t talk to Camn but soft defends her to others. At 431 asks kraska to explain her Camn vote. And further suggests at 438 that kraska’s vote is suspect due to a lack of Camn discussion in kraska’s ISO.
3. Lack of logical trajectory on her reads and actions towards me.
Let’s start with her Day 1 readslist at 418 – I’m Town.
Day 2 comes along and Camn helps fuel the LUV wagon until the point of claim. She hops off to vote me in 884 and 885. Ok, she’s changed her position. It can happen given how little there is to either of her reasons for reading me
Day 3 comes along. Now at the end of Day 2 I was supposedly her top scum read. And I just hammered a mislynch on a useful Town PR. Yet today not only does she come out firing at Spyrex but doesn’t respond at all to me calling her my top scum suspect. There is no continuity of thought to the manner in which her read on me waffles. If I was scum Day 2 and came out today calling her my top suspect why does she not say I’m scum trying to mislynch her? That would make sense.
Instead she’s doing everything in her power to avoid my wagon. Which is the kind of behavior I would expect from scum who hoped today would be an easy lynch on me run by mostly Town and doesn’t want to be shown pushing the mislynch.
4. Reminder about the following quote –
So today is the next day. Camn should be confirmed Town per her own statements. Yet nothing of the sort has occurred and her claim doesn’t give any reason for her to expect this either.In post 357, camn wrote:But im town, and will be conf by tomorrow or the next day for sure.
5. Nacho buddying
This is pretty straightforward – easy way to pad how correct your read on Town you are going to Nightkill is by strongly buddying up to them in thread.
6. Strange posting regarding flavor –
I noticed this in my Night 2 re-read of Camn (which LLD can confirm). Early on the following post is odd –
Notice the angle she approaches this from. She doesn’t mention that scum are likely to have fake-claims (which is pretty standard from competent Mods). Which would be a reasonable stance. Instead her angle is “Everyone is morally grey” which I then offhand show her not to be the case.In post 30, camn wrote:Also, Dunn... I doubt that flavor will indicate alignment. Everyone in the comic is pretty grey, morality-wise. Except Claire and Hanners, of course.
Actually I guess the robot fighting pit-boss maybe is pure evil.
Why this struck me on re-read is the fact that Aristo claimed the flavor he flipped. Why would he have not chosen to claim a safe-claim? Beatrice is, as I have said, one of the most Assholish of the people on this list.
Those two elements make me believe that scum don’t have flavor claims other than their assigned characters and either have no safe-claims or simply have safe-claims of roles. The first being the case would explain why she’s claimed some oddball 1-Shot Modified Hider role that she supposedly used twice, has failed twice, that she can’t use again, and why she has refused to claim the targets of her failed uses.
So there you have it. As concise as I can make it.
Be cool – vote Camn."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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@pisskop and LLD– If you think Camn is scum please move your vote to her. Right now you are on singleton wagons and the only way the day is going to progress is if we get a wagon built. Camn is scum and a great place for your votes.
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Of course it was reconsideration – you realized that your vote looked suspect as hell and didn’t want to actively bus. As I said (and you are ignoring) – your initial vote was a gut reaction based on knowning IAI was your scum partner and the re-evaluation was realizing that’s the only reason you would vote. Thus the very awkward distance from it.In post 1038, camn wrote:I got no reaction in between back to back posts?
Why wouldn't I wait for people to.. react.. if I was looking for a quickwagon? Doesn't fly. If I wanted to bus- I would give people some time. This was a real live reconsideration on my part.
Only way pisskop could be scum is if you were Town. And we both know that’s not the case.In post 1038, camn wrote:Except Pisskop might be scum. So if he flips scum.. is this classic: caught one scum, voted other scum? We will see.
Nah he was a lurker the second he replaced. It is why he was so easy to read – he was playing to his scum meta. And the bolded is pure straw-manning of course – as stated above you recognized your vote on IAI was obv and distanced from it an hour later.In post 1038, camn wrote:Aristo was a replacement.. not a lurker. And I know bussing/wifom/whatever.. but I feel like I was reasonably active getting him dead.Also- I was smart enough to "get on board the bus early” with IAI.. but not smart enough to do it with Aristo? I don't think so.
Nope. Having a thought pattern consistent with scum-hunting is Town. Your posts don’t show anything of the sort. They do show, however, scum looking to stage their position on wagons so they look good.In post 1038, camn wrote:Consistency is for scum. Also, this is big words for OMGUS.
Throwing in the OMGUS buzzword here also made me chuckle.
Lol. I mean … that’s all that can be said about this. Any action that could reasonably confirm you as Town would not be subject to “unforeseen turns of Night actions”.In post 1038, camn wrote:The night actions didn't go as I forsaw.
Nah. Again with another attempt to slant the discussion away from what was being said (aka scum play). The fact remains – scum would be the only ones in position to know that flavor analysis could possibly screw them and there aren’t fake-claims. Which is why your initial comment resembles an attempt to pre-empt people flavor hunting. So not a Town tell at all.In post 1038, camn wrote:Here Magna claims that I am scum.. and I know that my partner is Beatrice, as he says- "one of the most Assholish of the people on this list"... AND there are no fake-claims........and then I claimed that flavor likely wouldn't indicate alignment.
By his own logic, saying that flavor won't indicate alignment in this scenario is the one thing scum WOULDN'T say. Its actually a towntell
Of course you could just own up now as to whether you and your partners got any fake-claims and settle the issue."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Personally at this point I don't think the thread being more or less a back and forth solely between Camn and I is helpful. I've made my case. Others need to weigh in."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Try reading the thread.In post 1061, Dunnstral wrote:For people voting camn right now, what are your reasons for doing so?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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More votes this way ...In post 1067, camn wrote:Dear everyone who is voting for me... lets fast forward- I will not be lynched today.
I >might< be nightkilled tonight.. but probably not.
Tomorrow you might lynch me.
But not today.
That is all.
VOTE: Pisskop"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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I just wanted to highlight Ms. "I claim when I want how I want" posted this.
For the record this is L-1. Since Socrates didn't bother to mention it.In post 1073, Socrates wrote:
Nuh-uh Camn, this is a bridge too far. If you have something that should save you, then out with it already!
VOTE: CAMN
Pre-Pre-edit:
Dammit, pisskop! Fun fact, did you know that I got burned by a godfather really badly in my very first non-newbie game? I want to believe that you're town, but you're giving my nothing to work with, here!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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MOD – I’ll be V/LA from 4:30 EST today until Monday morning as usual.
Unconvinced that Camn’s claim is any reason not be lynching her. Frankly the narrative she’s trying to foster makes no sense.
1. If she thought her claiming Vig automatically cleared her as Town – why didn’t she just shoot a suspect last Night? This directly conflicts with her “I’ll be confirmed Town” backtrack discussion we had just today.
2. Vig is a pretty common site Scum claim these days.
3. Why not talk things over with Dunn – the person who upgraded her N1 and must assuredly be Town from Camn’s perspective as opposed to Jae?
My prediction – if Camn isn’t lynched tomorrow shows up with only 1 death, it’s a Town player, and Camn begins to spin the WIFOM of “Oh, scum kill was blocked due to many BP and protective roles” song and dance which is unproveable. So my vote stays.
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Irrelevant. Pisskop isn’t getting lynched today in any case due to the Cop Innocent on him. So pretending he needs to activate a power that would only cut down on the minimal Godfather worries while under zero pressure is scummy. And your "I want to shoot him" song and dance is irrelevant also. You doing so and him flipping Innocent Child shows you are likely scum faking the Vig claim with the regular Mafia kill.In post 1076, camn wrote:My defense isn't LOL INNOCENT CHILD!!
Nah. The assumption is that you are outright lying about what role you got upgraded into prompted by Spyrex’s Gunsmith claim. Probably you killed Jae yesterday and claimed him as your ‘second’ Neighborize target on the off chance a Tracker is in the game and saw you.In post 1083, camn wrote:But you read my claim.. so can I assume, pisskop.. that you think I am scum that got upgraded to a second kill.. and chose not to use it night 2 so I could chat up a townie about who to kill?
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It has little impact in my read of Camn. Yes, I saw it also. You both are suspect for calling out IAI as scummy for questionable reasons (catchup posts are not inherently scummy). As I stated earlier you don’t strike me as scum together. Camn’s vote and retract combined with the rest of her ISO re: Arist looked scummier than your play. Now is Camn Town? If so you’d be near the top of my list for scum..In post 1054, Socrates wrote:On the other hand, Magna, how do you feel about the fact that Camn's waffle on IAI came just a few posts after I said that all catch-up posts read as scummy?
Well if you aren’t scum perhaps you need to recalibrate your senses then if you think Dunn is absolutely Town and are still floating this “overreaction” line of thought.In post 1073, Socrates wrote:Your reaction to this is confusing the hell out of me. I just talked to Magna about scum over-reacting to minor statements about them by townies, and now here you are.
But again, all other logic points to you being town.
I asked you to stop making my spidey-senses tingle!"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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If you don't lynch Camn for being an obv-scum after this post I don't think there is hope for any of the remaining players in this game.In post 1131, camn wrote:I mean... If we can't lynch pisskop...let's lynch Magna.
His case on me is essentially, "Nah."
He thinks I'm lying about being a Vig...except I'm a FREAKING YF-29 VECTORED-THRUST STRIKE DRONE...., and odds are I will just prove it tonight.
He is actually pushing to lynch me just assuming there will only be one kill..instead of waiting till tomorrow and knowing for sure.Why? Cuz I'm gonna shoot him or one of his scum mates in the face, which crimps his style.
So fuck it.
Plus he talks too much.
1. May makes ZERO sense as a Vig since she is an Ex-Con Robot who was introduced being paroled from Robot Jail. Hell the body she was given was literally falling apart and had mismatching skin tones. The whole "Vector Foxtrot Spam Drone" shit is just posturing and bad posturing at that.
2. The bolded is pure scum slip which shows she knows I'm not scum. How you ask? Look at what she says - she's going to shoot me or "one of my scum mates". That slip right there is very telling. How the hell in a 12 player game do I have multiple partners for her to shoot when Aristo is already dead? Hmmmm? She's floating a 4 person scum team out of 12 players. Nope on a rope, not happening. So Camn in her bluster spam accidentally leaked that she knows I'm Town since the only way there are two scum left aside from me is for me to be Town.
3. Again - if Camn isn't lynched today and only 1 kill occurs - don't be Newbs and not lynch her.
4. Remember her "I needed approval from Jae so I didn't shoot N2 which would have proven myself blah blah blah" explanation? Doesn't match up to the super confident "IMMMA VIG THE SKUMZ" we see above. Since she's just flailing regarding her claim in hopes of escaping the noose.
CONFIRM VOTE: CAMN THE OBV-SCUM"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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BTW before i forget to mention - this is a very solid candidate for partner with Camn ...In post 1162, kraska77 wrote:piss i think youre scum
if ure town ure really not giving me any reason to reconsider
why do you want to lynch spyrex?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Back from V/LA ..
I see Camn continues to AtE about how she’s Town and scum will “take care of her” and basically trying to ignore all the salient points against her. Pretty clear scum play. Why no more votes people? I mean look at Spyrex’s 1222 for exactly why Camn’s Vig claim is Fake McFakeClaim Pants.
Socrates’s content as of late has been, even if I am going to be charitable, bad. Lots of little questions at people and no drive to actually present conclusions drawn from those interactions.
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Literally this could not be more false. And even those voting / scum-reading me have to admit so since the reasons I’m being voted is “LUV hammer and opportunistically shaping reads” which by definition refutes “MoI has only tunneled Camn”.In post 1229, camn wrote:What has Magna done that's so town?
He pretty much has just tunnelled me all game.
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Regardless of how much she actually puts in effort in the PT to sort players this is consistent with the reasoning I gave when I asked her why she chose me and that she was thinking of choosing Spyrex the next period for the same reason.In post 1143, Lady Lambdadelta wrote:I neighbourized you because I was suspicious of you, but rationalized that Camn and Kraska were worse.
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Reasons are tek! Why don’t you provide them?In post 1160, Socrates wrote:And I can't see Lady and Spy being scum together. How do you feel about Lady?
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This is probably the only other vote I would make today if for some reason Camn isn’t lynched.In post 1175, kraska77 wrote:not really
i have reasons to think moi is scum, and reasons to think everyone else other than you is town
I mean this literally screams “CHAINSAW FOR PARTNER CHAINSAW FOR PARTNER” ….In post 1203, kraska77 wrote:and camn hasnt votehopped?
if ur point is lld is too out there to be scum then why isnt camn town too by that logic
she voted all 3 of u moi and spyrex up untill now
A reminder in bold if I ever do get lynched – this is scum throwing Rhetoric …
And this is why Kraska is scum.In post 1234, kraska77 wrote:Like it's the perfect opportunity to capitalise on a mislynch
We all knew the ascetic part of the claim was balls
In fact that was the only thing that have me pausee and made me hesitate to lynch luv
Why would scum pass up the opportunity to call lying town a liar?
The Ascetic part of LUV’s claim was, you know, true. As 903 shows. The issue I had with LUV was he lied about being BP on top of Ascetic which clashes with my Role hardcore.
So kraska is just spinning lies here to support her suspicion. While also chainsawing for Camn."I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
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Also want to bring to everyone’s attention the following –
Both of these attempts to say my hammer on LUV is scum betray that neither Camn nor kraska is actually scum-hunting me. Because for scum to want to hammer LUV for lying they would have to KNOW LUV is lying about being Bulletproof. Otherwise it is an immediate death sentence if LUV flipped as he claimed. Both just happen to be dodging whether they believe my claim or not.In post 1233, camn wrote:Exactly. Its a free hammer.
Meanwhile kraska has subsequently retracted her stance that LUV was lying on being Ascetic (1257) with an “OOPS, missed that” without even a rethinking her stance that it was an easy scum hammer.
Scum gotta scum as they say …
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Oh … so your response is “Trust me, I can shoot” when you didn’t bother to shoot a scum suspect N2 and confirming yourself then. Yup that’s not suspect at all /off sarcasm. That’s not refuting a point that’s 3rd Grade “NO U” schoolyard behavior. But as to the other salient points you also have missed …In post 1251, camn wrote:You don't have any salient points.
Your argument is that I am lying...But I'm not. It's not worth the back and forth...Cuz either my flip or me shooting someone will prove the truth of it.
In post 1250, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Literally this could not be more false. And even those voting / scum-reading me have to admit so since the reasons I’m being voted is “LUV hammer and opportunistically shaping reads” which by definition refutes “MoI has only tunneled Camn”.
Handwaving number 2 with “I don’t care” again is “NO U”. And the response to number 3 was dodges the fact that Dunn should be confirmed Town to you given the claimed upgrade.In post 1123, MagnaofIllusion wrote:2. Vig is a pretty common site Scum claim these days.
3. Why not talk things over with Dunn – the person who upgraded her N1 and must assuredly be Town from Camn’s perspective as opposed to Jae?
In post 1043, MagnaofIllusion wrote:Nope. Having a thought pattern consistent with scum-hunting is Town. Your posts don’t show anything of the sort. They do show, however, scum looking to stage their position on wagons so they look good.
Again for the record – you could have supposedly confirmed you were a “Vig” last Night but instead just happen to have Neighborized the one person who died. Convienent.In post 1043, MagnaofIllusion wrote:I mean … that’s all that can be said about this. Any action that could reasonably confirm you as Town would not be subject to “unforeseen turns of Night actions”.
Oh you mean you wish I would spend my time arguing Set-Up Spec that Town can’t possibly know is valid as opposed to pushing you as scum for your in-thread scum play? I’m sure you do with that.In post 1255, camn wrote:Wait...THIS is why my claim is fake?
I actually liked Spyrex's setup spec. I wish Magna was being more lucid and gamesolvey and..... actually town so that he could weigh in on it.
Gunsmith with cop and vig vs. posioner.
Cop with Miller and ??? vs. godfather? Weren't you into a godfather, Magna?
Which would, if this game is elegant, presume the presence of a third investigative role, and a third scum that defeats it. Ninja and Tracker, I assume?
Godfather is a possibility. So is Pisskop not being a Godfather. Why would I hinge my reads only on the possibility of a Godfather? Town shouldn’t do that. Sure, they take it into consideration in their analysis. But don’t lean 100% on it.
You seem to fluctuate between “OMG Pisskop obv Godfather scum” and “Spyrex scum for XYZ as of late” depending on the temperature of the thread at that moment as opposed to actually having a read on their play.
Everone else– I also want to bring to your attention the way she is addressing me in this post. It’s not someone she thinks is scum (which is the narrative her vote and posts are attempting to sell). Why should Camn want a scum suspect to be more gamesolvely when it would solely make them harder to lynch?
You know what you just did – getting called out in thread and minutes later appearing as if having been summoned.In post 1256, camn wrote:What's 'pulling a Beetleguese'?"I am a leaf on the wind ... watch how I soar!"
Pretty much Geriatric game restricted at this point ... unless there are players I REALLY want to play with.