Mini 1431: The Tenements (Game Over)

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Sora

[Slandaar]

Because noones posting anything

[Slandaar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: CD

[Slandaar]

Better Posting:

No, sadly I am scum

1 down! Good job everyone!

VOTE: UN

/Better Posting

UNVOTE:
VOTE: WT

calling cd useless when they are arguing the same thing seems fake.

[Slandaar]

CD what do you think about: If Ruff wanted to hide behind his 'fluff' he could have lied about it being a posting restriction hence this wasn't his aim.

also; AA's first language isn't English.

[Slandaar]

Or, it was all a clever set up to get people to think exactly this.

YOU'RE RIGHT!!!! LYNCH HO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Slandaar]

<-- Useful on page 3 of a game with 0 activity.

[Slandaar]

My point still stands that there is no reason to be deliberately confusing as town.

What does scum gain from being deliberately confusing? (apart from a wagon)

I will read the rest of this wall in a bit after work.

[Slandaar]

VOTE: CD

Basically CD's plan was at L-1 to make people do their action to confirm their role but it doesn't do this when scum can salvage/manufacture etc. This is pretty obviously a huge flaw in the plan and there is no reason to assume they can't but CD is scum and knows ie scum can't salvage (he has inside knowledge the plan does work he was trying to get towncred) and scum probably can't manufacture (less certain but likely)

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, u scum bro?

No, I'm obvtown.

I figured that scum would not be able to salvage. But certain power roles might not be able to. Thus if you claimed a role that couldn't salvage then we could prove it in thread before we lynched. It is not the end all be all of tell for sure, but it would have given us a verification tool.

Why would scum not be able to salvage?

Clearly if they can't and what you propose was fine; ie bolding in thread; the setup would be broken, somehow you don't see this.

Ah- I missed the line where CoolDog was laying out a forced claim plan. Slaandar's post makes a little more sense now.

OK. And the verdict is?

we would only force someone to salvage if they were at l-1. Also, no one hammer until everyone has salvaged. We want to get all of the town power that we can get.

This is actually a good idea (apart from the part where you name what you did) everyone should declare when they have made their action.

[Slandaar]

There is a ton of inconsistencies and nonsense in UN's posting but hes town he plays on a different level as scum a less free one is the easiest way to describe it.

[Slandaar]

Some of the stuff I read ugh
If someone is L-1 they don't need to claim; If they are about to be hammered they claim doesn't matter what page.

[Slandaar]

I am of the opinion that just simply explaining your actions with "oh it helps to get out of RVS/it's RVS" is simply scum with a convenient excuse. I can be convinced otherwise though.

If you have no evidence to base this on then you have no reason to think this; there is clear town motivation in wanting to end RVS so there is no reason it doesn't come from scum.

[Slandaar]

Gorckat are you scum?

[Slandaar]

CD this is the most I have ever seen you post.

Anyways; this guy is scum

VOTE: Mr Obvious

Getting paranoid at L-1 isn't a scum tell.

Lots of players, both scum and town, get frustrated being at L-1.

The refusal to claim is the scum tell.

The town has spoken by running CD up to L-1. Town expects a claim at that point, and his refusal to do so is nothing more than the giving of a middle finger to the town.

If you can see being paranoid at L-1 isn't a scum tell you can also see that refusing to claim isn't a scum tell what is happening is Mr Obvious wants to look like he is contributing but the first statement is thinking in one way then the other is just back to the level of the initial first statement.

To try and make it clearer; refusal to claim isn't a scumtell because town like to give the middle finger when frustrated etc. Mr Obvious can understand this line of thinking regarding being Paranoid but can't regarding refusing to claim so he has hidden motive.

[Slandaar]

yes the post was a bit over the line but thats enough talk about it.

[Slandaar]

@Slandaar: Your vote on MrObvious is obviously worthless as nobody else is on there. Join the Snacks wagon or the JacobSavage wagon.

Thank you for you concern UN, however, I am happy with my current vote.

[Slandaar]

I was expecting a claim, then on to the next candidate.

Seems legit.

What hidden motive could I have in pointing out that I find the lack of a claim to be a scumtell?

Hidden Motive is obvious; you are inventing a scumtell to accuse someone with which you should know is not actually a scumtell..

The lack of a claim combined with the frustration CD showed is either caught scum who hasn't thought of a credible fake claim or frustrated townie thinking he's dealing with a bunch of idiot townies that are about to lynch him.

Exactly; there are other explanations; the simple fact is refusing to claim isn't a scumtell.

Link me to scum refusing to claim please and explain why you think it is from scum in this instance.

[Slandaar]

UN I will give you some advice; Insulting people does not encourage them to work with you.

I vote my top scumread there is no reason to vote anyone else.

[Slandaar]

Syryana why are you 'ignoring' the lurkers for 3rd scum exactly? and then one of the lurkers is 1/2 of your #3 scum.

Sense this does not make.

[Slandaar]

If I had to guess; Jacob is town.

His pressure post had a lot of town swagger about it.

[Slandaar]

There are too many lurkers in this game.

Me included

Maybe I will stop. Maybe.

[Slandaar]

You better write some for me also.

[Slandaar]

lol

Where do you get the idea I think that Gorckat?

[Slandaar]

I clearly knew what you were referring to; I just wanted to see if you would actually have the audacity to quote it and hilariously; you did, I thank you for the entertainment.

VOTE: Gorckat

[Slandaar]

What am I missing?

Perhaps nothing, perhaps you are correct? or perhaps not.

This is a serious question; is English your first language?

[Slandaar]

UN is a monkeys uncle imo.

[Slandaar]

I'll hazard a guess that I missed your vote on MrObv Friday. When I jumped back in this morning, my first new post was #250, top of page 11, so I didn't see that vote until I finished your ISO.

In light of that, I'm guessing 'seems legit' was sarcasm?

Well what do you think? is it a guess or do you think it was sarcasm?

[Slandaar]

Gorc/Syry/Obvious/Sora and korranth is a possibility

You should all just sheep my reads.

[Slandaar]

You guys should really wake up and smell the bbq.

Exactly

Don't make another post like this.

MrProtown is here to save the day!

Says the lurker with 5 posts across 16 pages.

Not completely true is it?

I think you mean town, and will assume as such.

Yes, last word should be town, amazingly noone else noticed this.

[Slandaar]

If there is a vig, shoot WT snacks plz

If there is a doc, protect me plz

If there is a cop, cop cooldog plz

Don't make another post like this.

I was expecting a claim, then on to the next candidate. CD has basically claimed VT so I'm doing a reread now to see who else might ping the scumdar.

Is it the same guy?

[Slandaar]

Slandaar, what is your opinion of Uber?

Town; when he was scum he tried more to convince rather than berate. He just feels less constricted to 'normal' play here. If on day 2/3 he plays this same way and hasn't shaped up then it will be worth reevaluating.

[Slandaar]

[quote="In
Not true at all,

Syryana replaced in near the end of page 12.

Yes that was my point.

[Slandaar]

People should vote Gorckat

[Slandaar]

People should vote Gorckat

Why?

Hes scum.

Slandaar, in your own words, could you please summarize, as briefly as possible, why I am scum?

You think about things in a way you shouldn't if you genuinely meant other things you said.

The recent example is good; it shows that you are in one instance being hugely antitown at best; 'I thought we were gonna get a claim and move on!' it just excludes the whole lynching bit and is like 'lets run around getting claims' but then in the next you are basically being this paragon of protown-ness which reads completely fake.

[Slandaar]

He was trying to argue something with me while assuming I was right about said argument.

[Slandaar]

Hi UN

Why don't you sheep me instead of being a headless chicken?

[Slandaar]

When I get home I will casemake properly.

Then I expect a Gorckat lynch today.

[Slandaar]

Ok this is short and sweet because honestly this is all you need to see Gorckat is scum;

I clearly knew what you were referring to; I just wanted to see if you would actually have the audacity to quote it and hilariously; you did, I thank you for the entertainment.

VOTE: Gorckat

What am I missing? Page 2 wagons to claim only helps scum.

I vote him; he then instantly says 'What am I missing?'

You see this is scum who is caught not understanding why, he is assuming something is missing when if he were town he would stand by his claim instead of just thinking I am right in what I said.

Basically the reason he is assuming I am right is because he as scum knows I am town so when I vote him his reaction is 'what did I do wrong?' (ie what am I missing?) instead of 'that makes no sense!' (town response).

How did I catch him initially?

Well, he is just nitpicking wording, he was never reading it correctly simply reading it as level 0 as you can and then saying it makes no sense. And its not because Gorckat isn't intelligent it is just that hes scum looking for something to say. The fact he has posted absolutely minimal content even backs this up because it shows he really doesn't know what to say so he is forcing things such as my clear sarcasm post that any town would understand. I don't for one second believe that could be interpretted as me being serious by anyone but scum.

No problem.

[Slandaar]

What CD said.

[Slandaar]

lol

I feel good about this now. I was worried yesterday with the claim but there wasn't enough time to switch so just left my vote where it was.

[Slandaar]

VOTE: Mr Obvious

Will make a case tomorrow.

[Slandaar]

Klick you mean you didn't join because of me?

Mr Obvious: I would also like to see your case on me.

[Slandaar]

I am a chronic tunneler

I have learnt in the past the people who suspect obvtown on day 2 are normally town; does this mean Mr Obvious is town? Need to think about it; the case in my head was quite good.

Also; thanks for feeding my ego CD.

[Slandaar]

I'm actually going to take a guess and say that at least one of Syra, Sora, guille is scum and I think Syra is paranoid town.

Can you explain this 'guess'? Why those three?

[Slandaar]

And no; I don't like a rufflig wagon.

[Slandaar]

And no; I don't like a rufflig wagon.

what's wrong with it? Running someone up who hasn't scum hunted at all seems like a pretty good wagon to me.

I remember at least where he went a little over the line with ongoing games; that is scumhunting.

He seems town to me; the case presented is actually terrible especially from mr obvious.

[Slandaar]

I could see WT as scum, Klick might be scum, Mr Obvious is a possible also

CD is town, Guille is town, Rufflig I think is town, Syry seems town, Jacob seems townish.

AA and Korranth meh.

[Slandaar]

Look, we won't be lynching Ruff, that is that.

VOTE: Klick

This is a good vote.

[Slandaar]

That name-calling comment...

anyways; Rufflig is town, I can just tell. Lets lynch Klick who is clearly proddodging like a pro. I have never seen him as town be like this hes normally quite loud etc.

[Slandaar]

What's your reason? "I can just tell" isn't good enough.

I feel that he is town based on how he acts; he has a townish confidence in his posts; there isn't anything I can point to to show he is town there just isn't, If I link to posts saying 'this reads town' it is pointless because it means nothing to anyone else. It is just me reading people; Town often feel they have more authority than as scum etc, Ruff has this.

I also find it ironic that you're going after Klick for proddodging, when you've been doing it yourself for the past week or so. More content and reasoning, please.

I have been posting nearly everyday, so not proddodging, just quiet while waiting to see how certain people post one of whom was Klick who failed to deliver.

[Slandaar]

I don't think you understand what proddodging is.

Oh?

@AA: why Fitz and not Klick?

[Slandaar]

Klick is mostly meta activity based yes. 714 is ultra lurky too.

[Slandaar]

AA could well be scum.

[Slandaar]

AA could well be scum.

How about you give some explanation instead just calling me scum and then see who how town you look.

You could have voted Klick to give him motivation to post; you didn't
You vote Fitz for this reason

So; why not Klick? what was the differential?

[Slandaar]

Sorry I have been ill last couple days still am will try post later

[Slandaar]

Do you think I would come into a game one man down and AUTOBUS my last scum partner?

I just got here, I'm not desperate for survival or some shit, I have a fresh, new outlook on the game, I can certainly try to misdirect town towards a mislynch. I even set up a JS mislynch proving it was totally plausible, why would I then try to direct you to my scum partner guille??? Your theory is terrible, and I'm disappointed to hear you're not a newb

Well if the below was true then ... Maybe.

That would make post 779 an epic example of bussing for future reference.

The blaring issue with your theory is that I'm never going to be even within a mile of being lynched so town then loses.

The point being; if you bus your partner and then never get lynched; why wouldn't you do it? your argument seems to be 'I wouldn't do it but if I did I would win'.

Regarding Jacob case; he seems town to me hes too cocky and sure of himself. Guille is a similar thing although the case is better in that he really hasn't done much scumhunting.

Anyways...

Mr Obvious is scum lets lynch him.

VOTE: Mr Obvious

[Slandaar]

Someone needs to hammer this guy.

Why?

What is scummy about sheeping me exactly?

[Slandaar]

You should sheep me

Jacob Meta is basically to be useless; hes too cocky here to be scum.

[Slandaar]

Well if you don't want to lynch town; yes.

Go meta him. It will give you a new perspective on things.

[Slandaar]

just post shit abbreviated for me

I have told you what you needed to know but apparently you already knew.

What is scummy about sheeping me exactly?

I don't trust you enough or find your cases valid enough to sheep you. You find people sheeping you to be scummy?

No.

But apparently you do; or why did you quote the post he sheeped me in and say 'Someone needs to hammer this guy.'?

except that meta tells us absolutely nothing.

It gives you a baseline to work with; if someone is new you scumhunt them in different ways to someone experienced etc.

[Slandaar]

Lets hope I am wrong then.

Will hammer later if I have to.

[Slandaar]

WT what items did Guille have on him?

[Slandaar]

I thought that is what you do; look at items on the dead and take one.

[Slandaar]

You do choose which item when you use the ability, right?

[Slandaar]

As far as knowing what other peoples' items are: My understanding of the mechanic was that if a player dies and has unused items on their corpse, that item has a random chance to be given to a salvaging player instead of metal scraps. My understanding is also that you don't get to choose whether you receive scraps or an unused item. See the Sample PM in the inaugural post; that portion of our PM is worded very similarly.

lol, I didn't realise salvage actually just gives a chance to obtain a random item from a dead player. That is interesting.

[Slandaar]

OK we should assume 2 scum alive at this point; then if the game ends after only one scum lynch that is just a bonus.

anyways; the whole not sheeping Slandaar thing needs to end today, Mr Obvious is not a member of the town.

VOTE: Mr Obvious

[Slandaar]

I haven't heard anyone step up and say they protected Slandaar on D1.

I haven't heard anyone step up and say they targetted Slandaar on D1.

I really don't believe there were no steals N1 and 2 N2 also.

[Slandaar]

If I claim we may aswell just massclaim I think

I don't understand why town would have some kind of dayvig who burns people so we don't know their alignment though.

[Slandaar]

Well I am not BP as such; I am untargettable during the day if I want to be.

Will think about things later.

[Slandaar]

Obvious: did you know beforehand that when you kill someone their alignment would be hidden?

[Slandaar]

And lets talk hypothetically, lets say you are town, why would you target me for the kill?

[Slandaar]

Obvious: did you know beforehand that when you kill someone their alignment would be hidden?

Yes.

Why would you ever use it then? you must understand how bad this is if you hit town; the person who you killeds posts are useless you can't look at their interactions or their wagon(s) etc and it makes VCA useless all because we do not KNOW their alignment. It makes the town more uninformed than normal.

And then the question arises from that; Would town ever have such a role?

[Slandaar]

I think hes some kind of an SK actually.

[Slandaar]

If anyone stole an item last night I think they need to claim.

[Slandaar]

Why are you voting me Fitz?

[Slandaar]

OK lets massclaim

order is;
Syry
AA
Fitz
Me
WT

Syry claim.

[Slandaar]

You are such a comedian WT!

I am conftown when I claim so no, I won't be claiming first.

[Slandaar]

Why is WT even on that list? He claimed like a month ago. You also haven't answered my questions.

I think you are scum and that leaves only two options you alone or you and Fitz. Just you I think but I will relook at things after everyone claims.

WT is on the list to fullclaim just like everyone else. Or did I claim already?

[Slandaar]

I have 2 votes therefore Syry/AA cannot be buddies

[Slandaar]

I have 2 votes therefore Syry/AA cannot be buddies

How does that clear AA

It doesn't clear AA but Syry seems like scum; chance AA being scum with him is very low I guess there is actually a small chance they didn't both come online on the weekend together but I think that is quite minute.

And no Slandaar...you dont get to dictate the order. If anything you should go first and we can popcorn it.

We claim in the order I set because it is the best order, Popcorn is useless.

[Slandaar]

I would be conftown because when noone else claims PR the town power level dictates I am town.

[Slandaar]

1) we don't know what scum has and 2) we don't know what the burnt to a crisp players were.

We currently only have myself, WT and Obvious claimed PR; 3-4 PR is pretty standard in 13p games. Then when you take 2 into consideration we can see how antitown Obvious vig ability actually was even if he hit 1 scum which is best case scenario we don't know he did and so can't look through their interactions etc. Literally the amount of information lost by his kills is huge absolutely huge. It therefore should be obvious there are more PR than WT/Obvious and that is Myself.

[Slandaar]

I am a Cartographer, I can choose to either be untargettable during the day as I retreat to work on my maps or I can choose to Salvage (I can't manufacture during day)

At night I can manufacture or use items.

I also started with a Recording Wire.

Actions were;
D1; untargettable; N1; Nothing; D2; Salvage; N2; Syringe; D3; Untargettable; N3; Nothing.

[Slandaar]

Have you already submitted an action today?

Nope.

You need to fullclaim WT.

Also it's fucking laughable that you think this makes you confirmed town.

Is it?

Basically WT/Obvious is some weird kind of lost masons deal with obvious also being a really weak vig. That clearly isn't all the town power; hence I am confirmed town as there must be another PR. My role lessens the impact on town Obvious's ability had and prevents any day actions scum have.

so that leaves Slaandar

I am confirmed town thank you ArcAngel.

Being said. Havingfitz gaining CoolDog's vote seems like a town power. So I think HavingFitz is town

Nope, it was CD's 'power'. I will be giving my vote to someone if i die also.

[Slandaar]

Town doesn't have enough power? We've got 2 confirmed PRs (Obv/WT, and it's a more powerful combo than you're making it out to be) and everyone can be a 1-shot jailkeeper, 1-shot roleblocker, vote mover, 1-shot watcher and I can't even remember what else. You being some sort of untargetable guy doesn't make you conf-town; if anything it makes you conf-scum since scum would need

some

way to counterbalance all that town power. Your argument that you're some kind of self-preserving town PR to "lessen the impact of a vig ability" is frankly ludicrous.

I might be slightly biased knowing my alignment still your logic is wrong because I am town and that is all I need to say. But perhaps I shall show everyone;

Can scum build items?

[Slandaar]

What did you receive with your D2 Salvage?
Who did you target with your synringe?

Scraps, Ruff then You.

Setup speculation DOES NOT confirm you as town.

I am completely obvtown from it; whats the difference?

Whatever the claim is the result is the same...we're left to believe two townies (assuming you are town) are able to avoid MrObv's daykills.

What is hard to believe? 3 PR 1 being a dayvig of sorts the other 2 are immune to it? Nothing because its the truth of the matter. I am sure you know that town can have similar roles in a setup if not 2 of exactly the same role.

[Slandaar]

Wait, are we talking dusa injection or robotic syringe?

Robotic Syringe

Because constantly trying to get people to perceive you as conftown is a scum move.

Go meta me.

[Slandaar]

That is the point; fitz and syry both suggest the items are protown but if scum can build them they are null.

[Slandaar]

That is the point; fitz and syry both suggest the items are protown but if scum can build them they are null.

Can you explain what you are saying above because I'm not tracking you?

Well if scum can build items for example;

Prophetic Augmentation

The effects of this drug allow the human mind to perceive the future; as such, any individual who is under its influence will be able to predict any response to an action they take, making that action unstoppable. The effects will only last for the duration of one action. This pill can be taken at any time and does not count as using an action.

What do 1 shot RB's actually do? Not a lot unless scum have lots of other powers other than a nk and if they do then... I clearly am town.

OK...not sure we are getting anywhere. I still do not like Slandaar's claim because I have a hard time believing that 2 town players were immune to being fried by MrObv. And unless the mod decided to give scum (WT) an assistant title to a town role (MrObv's Lessor) that leaves Slandaar.

Its really bad when he shoots town so why is it so unbelievable?

I know you have seen similar situations before.

If you could pick whether or not you were untargetable...why pick day one vs salvaging?

Good question.

Because I was given my power for a reason so I assumed scum have day powers therefore I used it?

Oh.

And wrt to your claim you started the game with a recording wire....WTF for? I didn't start the game with anything. Why are you starting the day with anything? And if you did start the day with a recording wire and are worried about your continued existence in the game enough to make yourself untargetable D1...why did you do nothing N1? Why not record N1? Especially when all you had at your disposal was to make a recording for us all to see upon your death. A recording you could change at anytime up to your death.

I don't know why I started with it ask the mod but don't expect an answer.

I have used it I just didn't see it relevant to post that I have changed it a few times. What actually would me saying I then changed my message do? Nothing.

Slaandar, can i have answer to this.

Slaandar, how are you confirmed town?

Because I said so. Read the last few pages.

[Slandaar]

Well we will see who dies shortly.

[Slandaar]

Add to my earlier post the fact you have done nothing today except say you are confirmed town. Which you absolutely (as scum or town) have to realize has no bearing on the opinion of town players who do not know that.

I am town and I will call myself variations of it as often as I please, does this annoy you Fitz?

Other than saying you think Syryana is scum and saying I could potentially be his partner but not AA...you have done nothing. Why is Syryana scum?

He doesn't do anything.

If there is only one scum left....why can't it be AA by herself? Instead...you choose to clear her because she couldn't be scum with Syryana. Could AA be scum with me?

Theoretically yes, but I think Syry is scum so no. AA by herself is possible but again I think the most likely scum is syry. What is hard to understand here?

Are you convinced WT is not scum?

Yes

I have a favorable opinion of your abilities and I do not see it in action today. Too many things wrt you just don't add up. If I am wrong...and you are today's lynch....I only hope we aren't in LYLO.

You don't need to justify your vote to me, you need to justify it to everyone else.

[Slandaar]

You ignore the fact I caught Gorckat. My play has been fine.

I think the Obvious case was good, Sometimes though I have to play on gut and mostly that is what I am going with at present as logic has failed me. I think AA did her OMGUS thing so she is fairly likely town, WT is town, that leaves two.

And I think that means we must lynch Fitz today to prevent a scenario where town lose in lylo due to fitz having half the votes.

[Slandaar]

If we are in LYLO Slandaar is scum. ( he'd be dead by now if he wasn't).

If he is town then we definitely have a mislynch remaining.

If he's scum we could still be in LYLO or not.

Who do you think the scum killed that should have been me instead Fitz?

A+ posting, would read again.

Thank you very much, I am quite happy for you to read it as many times as you need.

So, the two vote thing that Fitz harps on about;
Assume Fitz is the lone scum if we do not lynch him today then the fact is scum wins due to having majority of votes tomorrow (well 2/2 so town can't lynch scum) even when there are two scum and we lynch his buddy town lose tomorrow due to this.

I think hes second most likely to be scum behind syry but this fact means he is the better lynch of the two as it prevents this scenario.

[Slandaar]

Eh I hadn't realised deadline is so soon... people need to start voting.

VOTE: Fitz

[Slandaar]

Your scumlogic doesn't work here Syry! you wouldn't quick hammer if you were a lonescum.

I assume its AA/Syry so town lost.

[Slandaar]

Thats what I assumed that I would be hammered if they are buddies but its the only plausible scumteam left and its not impossible for them just not to be on together... although unlikely.

[Slandaar]

Thanks for the towncred Gorckat!

[Slandaar]

I am ok for it to be posted.

AA does try and has improved over the last few games which is what is important. Policy lynching her or even trying is laughable.

[Slandaar]

I hope Obvious and Fitz feel bad.