Large Normal 230 - Game Over

[Vaxkiller]

All caught up!

[Vaxkiller]

Not really....

Yes, expect more content from me, but do not expect me to read through all this slog fest, I'll try skimming through and finding the meat. Bring stuff to my attention nd Ill tell you if its scummy or not.


TBH im disappointed, I thought this was going to be a doomed scum slot that I could wriggle and fight my way out of. Now I actually have to do work instead.

[Vaxkiller]

Checking in. I have a work event this afternoon and into tonight and all day tomorrow. So I'll be able to do some reading come Sunday.

Anyone want to give me some cliffs notes?

muh got wagoned day 1, then Pretentous came in and tried a way-too early quickhammer and everyone jumped on him for that. On day 2 Guillotina came out and claimed a red check on Nero Cain, his claim was sketchy as hell so people voted him for it, he flipped town, then for some reason mafia shot the VT the claimed guilty was on. So basically it's been a series of gamethrows so far.

This is a decent summary of what's happened.

rofl

[Vaxkiller]

Anyone want to claim a redirecting role?

[Vaxkiller]

I thought not.

[Vaxkiller]

Catch up? I'm just going to play. When I start seeing shit ill do some diving.

I'll read in my spare time, I should have some tomorrow during work.

[Vaxkiller]

I read thru the mod iso, didnt starbuck sub in a while ago?

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: ABR

[Vaxkiller]

I want more ppl on this and I want a claim.

[Vaxkiller]

Everyone needs to fall in for this to work.

[Vaxkiller]

Wjere is Vaxkiller?

The scum PT must be a real nailbiter.

Sure is shady under this tree.

[Vaxkiller]

How about it DGB. Id like to see you vote ABR.

[Vaxkiller]

@ABR, do not expect a "catch up post" from me. I will not torture myself with reading everything.

I'm looking through voting, mod iso and more. Call it shit if you will, but towns been asleep at the wheel (kinda looks like scum has too luckily).

[Vaxkiller]

This Non Imh slot is getting more suspicious, if you can believe it.

VOTE: Vaxkiller

Yea ok, I'm going to love your explanation for this. I'm sure you will feel compelled to make one up.

[Vaxkiller]

whos your top 3 SR

Not yet...

[Vaxkiller]

Give me a reads list ABR

[Vaxkiller]

It is not an unreasonable request, you have been in the game for some time. Id love to see where your head is at.

[Vaxkiller]

You call gamma scum, but barely point to reasons besides some connection to nero. You vote him for like a few posts.

[Vaxkiller]

Starbuck/me/unwnd all fresh meat....

[Vaxkiller]

Gamma is in my POE. If there's support there I will vote him.

Go the way the wind blows huh?

[Vaxkiller]

I want more ppl on this and I want a claim.

Everyone needs to fall in for this to work.

Holy hell, I dont know why but I feel outta my seat on this one.

[Vaxkiller]

Confirm vote: Vaxkiller

We all see it....

[Vaxkiller]

TGP is probably the only player here who might immediately grasp why I don’t kill Nero here

beatingadeadhorse.gif

[Vaxkiller]

The tunnel on me and lack of any connection or SR anywhere else is unimpressive.

I dont need to impress you.

Town will prevail and I will turn this poop ship around.

[Vaxkiller]

I think he meant ABR can be quite commanding at times, and wants people to follow him.

EDIT sniped

[Vaxkiller]

Gamma. What do you say? Vote me or ABR.

[Vaxkiller]

Ok, so flesh out a reason hes town for me.

[Vaxkiller]

You can't prove a negative, that's logic 101. First you must establish that I'm scum.

No its not a negative.

People can do town things and people can do scum things.

People can do "meh" things.


I want an opinion.

[Vaxkiller]

That's like if I called you a racist and you have to prove to me that you're not lol

OHHHHHH PLEASE.

You are comparing racism to being town or scum????????????????????

[Vaxkiller]

You know what gamma? I will give you the benefit of the doubt here.

Provide reasoning why you are reading them the way you do, we all have reasoning.

[Vaxkiller]

Ok, so flesh out a reason hes town for me.

Fuck no. You’re the person who replaced into the 4poster slot and voted someone who is directing the game without so much as a word to why. Burden of proof is on you.

Im asking for your opinion on ABR and you cant give it.

[Vaxkiller]

SOMEONES PLAN JUST BACKFIRED LOL

Wahts the plan?

[Vaxkiller]

@gamma

So whats your read on him? I may have been shot out of a canon due to some things.

Id like to know your read. Im assuming from the above you think hes town.

Just town?

Super town?

Leans town?

[Vaxkiller]

You can't prove a negative, that's logic 101. First you must establish that I'm scum.

No its not a negative.

People can do town things and people can do scum things.

People can do "meh" things.


I want an opinion.

That's like if I called you a racist and you have to prove to me that you're not lol

OHHHHHH PLEASE.

You are comparing racism to being town or scum????????????????????

@ABR

I need you to acknowledge this and respond.

[Vaxkiller]

inno, vote ABR

[Vaxkiller]

@gamma

So whats your read on him? I may have been shot out of a canon due to some things.

Id like to know your read. Im assuming from the above you think hes town.

Just town?

Super town?

Leans town?

I gave my reason. Now give yours. This isn’t playtime.

Im asking for a read. It;s not that hard.

Hers mine on you:

Null-Scum lean

[Vaxkiller]

Hey muh. If you dont want to get faded, Id vote ABR.

DGB, how about it?

[Vaxkiller]

This is your reaction to ONE vote? A cute, innocent little vanity wagon?

I would hate to see what buttons would be pushed if you got a second vote

Lol how about ABR's reaction to my vote? It was full on rage fest, WITH bad faith arguments no less!

[Vaxkiller]

Im going to get scum today. The scum team is realizing this, and they dont like it, there is going to be alot of discrediting me, and im sure they are going to prefer i get faded today. That's not going to happen.

[Vaxkiller]

Hey muh. If you dont want to get faded, Id vote ABR.

DGB, how about it?

I admire your spank. I'm not getting scum vibes from ABR but maybe I'm wrong.

Vote and see.

[Vaxkiller]

Inno

I need you to vote ABR.

[Vaxkiller]

Nope.avi

[Vaxkiller]

Nervous DGB?

[Vaxkiller]

i must say, i just read your iso and don't really see any reasoning from you that he's scum?

This is true. I have not.

[Vaxkiller]

lol

[Vaxkiller]

if nothing interesting happens in the next couple days i will vote our vigilante for fun, how about that?

i get to decide if "nothing interesting" has happened though

I'll take it!

Ok we got 1 more!

[Vaxkiller]

Can I interest you in ABR?

[Vaxkiller]

Fine. Your case looks solid. But im going to be pissed if scum kill me tonight and I don't get to take part in ABR's fade.

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: muh

[Vaxkiller]

Why did it take you so long to get there? I think your wagon sucks but not that much to where you can change votes like a snap.

I read 2775 when I replaced in, it was right at the top. It started me on a wild goose chase. I liked the case, but ABR looked worse. I wanted to question ppl and get them on the record. I was really hopeful that town would be so lost they would jump on and that scum would fight it. I see some scum action, but half of town is just AFK. I cant do shit with that.

[Vaxkiller]

@gamma

I just realized you are voting me. Was this leftover?

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: non lmh
Tbh I don’t even know if I’d be good with a replacement here because I reviewed the 4 posts and they actually kinda sucked
Also it’s not Imh, it’s Lmh

Found it.

Gamma, unvote and revote with an explanation.

[Vaxkiller]

just waiting on inactive slots to do stuff

I dont have alot of hope there.

[Vaxkiller]

Starbucks town, hey vote muh with us.

[Vaxkiller]

Glitch. Your prob town too. Congrats on anniversary.

You need to vote muh.

[Vaxkiller]

Here you go starbuck.

From there, start isoing ABR and looking into gamma. Id like to solve gamma.

In Which Umlaut Finally Efforts And Tries to Make a Real Case on Someone

So the intersection of the Day 1 and Day 2 elimination wagons was {

Nero Cain

, muh316, Gamma Emerald, Umlaut, Albert B. Rampage}. These were both pretty 'safe' wagons, and if I were scum I would likely be on one or both of them (which in fact I was, but... I'm not scum) just because they stood out as so guilty-looking that I'd be afraid it was more suspicious

not

to vote them. As such I think there's a pretty good chance of finding scum in this pool.

FMPOV this means looking at {muh316, Gamma Emerald, Albert B. Rampage}. Of these I'm most interested in muh, because he's been on my "maybe this guy is scum?" radar from the beginning and I think I've overlooked him in favor of more interesting targets. (Also he doesn't have six zillion posts so I can ISO him without going crazy)

Spoiler: A whole lot of quoted muh posts with commentary

VOTE: Guillotina

Looks like a new player pretending to be experienced

This post just didn't make any sense to me at the time and still doesn't;

even if this is true, why is it a reason to vote someone?

Nero 3:16 says I just eliminated your ass!


VOTE: muh316

VOTE: Nero I thought we were out of RVS

Explicitly OMGUS, which is not terrible in itself but seems to be replacing a somewhat serious vote on Guil.

muh, comments on guillotina? Seems like you were sussing them earlier

I was suspicious of him because his behavior seems very scripted to me. But the claim seems believable enough that there's no reason to further pursue.

I really dislike this turnaround. Guil had already made the claim when muh voted him in the first place, but crucially at that time IV was kind of grilling Guil about it and others were giving the claim some sideeye as well. By the time IV posted 179 it was clear he

wasn't

really suspicious of Guil and no one else really was either, and suddenly muh has bigger fish to fry and "there's no reason to further pursue"? Seems like he thought Guil was an easy push and then redirected when it turned out he had misread the room.

Moreover this scans more as muh narrating his read progression than talking about Guillotina, which was what he was invited to do and should be more interested in doing.

so basically you are admitting to what I am accusing you of-not paying attention to the game.

The way I read a game is I skim over the unread posts and first respond to things related directly to me. Then I try to re-read later on when my brain is ready to process the other things going on.

I'm super dramatic and I got a big ass ego. How is that alignment indicative?

Given it's D1, we need something to get the game going which is why I pushed you a bit on it.

Both more self-explanation.

even when muh is active in the thread i still dont realize muh is posting. maybe the avatar makes the posts invisible (speaking of gamma i miss the old one).
VOTE: muh

What amazing contributions have you given to the game?

Tu quoque

[snip]

Pushing for something that is NAI is how you usually get the game going? Or just in this game?

I play with multiple year long breaks so I can't really speak on my meta. But coupled with the role claim and the flavor text, you seemed like a good target to generate conversation.

This is completely dodging the point of whether muh believes Guil's content was NAI or not. Even "yes, it's NAI, that's why I moved on" would at least be addressing the point, but muh seems to not want to be pinned down to that interpretation.

Except nobody's forgot about me and I'm the top wagon at the moment.

why is it exactly that you are still doing nothing in this game?

There's nothing for me to do yet

ABR please. There had been a lot of content up to that point. Saying there's nothing to do is just an excuse both town or scum make because they are lazy.

There's literally nothing notable except my wagon and Guillotinas flavor text. There's the glitch wagon but Glitch hasn't posted since that wagon formed on him.

Also, if there was something notable going on we would have had a lot more than a wagon on me and glitch. The past few pages all seem like fluff to me.

Excuses for not contributing. Town can be uninterested too so this is a weak point but it's not nothing.

not for alignment, read order
am biased in favor of activity tho
guil is town for me, iv too

By that criteria you're most likely to be scum then

This post doesn't seem like much, but I'm looking at it now and it screams scum to me. "By your reasoning, you're scum!" is just the sort of

gotcha

remark that no one actually posts as part of a good faith scumhunting effort but only because they want to make a show of engaging people's arguments.

If you think we’re wrong to push you, why do you think it’s happening?

I don't think it's wrong to push me. Go for it. I just know there's scum on the wagon since my playstyle makes me a great candidate for LHF.

Town think (know!) it's wrong to push them, because they're town.

Lol I thought y'all had killed me without asking for a claim. Glad to be alive.

VOTE: Pretentious

This was the seventh vote onto Pretentious, after his fake-quickhammer of muh. That's... a fairly sound reason for a vote, of course. But it's impossible to get a sense of what muh really thought of Pretentious since he didn't say a single word about him for the rest of the day:

How tf do we have 20 pages in a span of a few hours. Anybody got a tl;dr?

So turns out Guillotina is not the only annoying player in the game. I skimmed a couple of pages, looks like a bunch of shitposting to me.

So turns out Guillotina is not the only annoying player in the game. I skimmed a couple of pages, looks like a bunch of shitposting to me.

LOL the irony in this post

At least I don't try to come off as the God of Mafia.

I have to agree with Guil about the irony.

---

VOTE: Guillotina

Not buying the claim.

This is literally muh's entire ISO for Day 2. He didn't buy the claim. Fair enough, the claim was false so not buying it is correct. But he had nothing to say about it until I had already debunked the claim and a wagon had started forming on Guil as a result.

---

VOTE: Non lmh
This slot has been avoiding the conversation for a long time and has managed to dodge replacement.

And this is muh's vote today. Others have already pointed out Non lmh is an easy target. I don't think that in itself makes muh scum (I have made something of a habit of saying "maybe the easy target is an easy target because they're just scum!") but it sure doesn't make him town either.

don't know about that muh guy but i have a person pushing someone who is dead null after 109 pages
i will vote for that person
VOTE: muh

So one inactive person defending another inactive person. Nice.

And this is muh's response to being criticized/voted for the easy lurker push. Which is just dismissal and not engagement (and incidentally is a missed opportunity to drag inactive-May into the game by asking if she actually thinks Non's play is acceptable or what?).

Tl;dr: Muh's day 1 play was terrible and scummy, and his day 2 and 3 play have been nonexistent. We should go back to this.

VOTE: muh316

[Vaxkiller]

muh is town.

See also 1017 DGB says muh is town.

DGB, is muh still town? Why was he town?

Gamma Emerald is scum.

For later...

SCUM who doesn't want this magical opportunity to slip with excessive discussion:

Making the day longer sucks for the player who knows for sure they are going to die. I've been in that position, and I don't wish it to my worst enemy. If everybody's checked in and had a chance to say their peace, yeet them swiftly and honorably.

VOTE: ABR

ABR is scum with Glitch and Nom Ihm!

GAME SOLVED

Ok so not too long ago you thought ABR was scum.

Then I enter:

Wjere is Vaxkiller?

The scum PT must be a real nailbiter.

Hey slim shady!

The tunnel on me and lack of any connection or SR anywhere else is unimpressive.

It's making the game more interesting

Hey muh. If you dont want to get faded, Id vote ABR.

DGB, how about it?

I admire your spank. I'm not getting scum vibes from ABR but maybe I'm wrong.

I came in screaming about ABR being scum and you shaded me, then said I made the game interesting, and did little else. Then you call ABR not scum? What happened since those posts above? Why didn't you engage with me? You clearly had thoughts that ABR was scum, so why not give me your thoughts on the topic? Seems like you have changed your mind on the the topic as well. Why didn't you enlighten me how you arrived at changing your mind?

[Vaxkiller]

Hey if I'm not alive tomorrow, shit will become apparent. If I am alive tomorrow I will make it apparent.

SCUM:

ABR/DGB

Heavily suspected: Gamma/prob a lurker or 2 if gammas clean.

[Vaxkiller]

I actually feel strongest about DGB being scum right now.

[Vaxkiller]

Hey if I'm not alive tomorrow, shit will become apparent. If I am alive tomorrow I will make it apparent.

SCUM:

ABR/DGB

Heavily suspected: Gamma/prob a lurker or 2 if gammas clean.

I see where you're coming from, but sometimes I throw things around for reactions. This hammer though... makes me regret that I let my scum read fade.

THen why didnt you engage with me at all?

You just sat on the sidelines. You saw what I was doing because you mentioned it.

[Vaxkiller]

No voting. Just put intent.

Also, not a great vote.

[Vaxkiller]

We have killed no scum. There probably 4 left? If 2 towns vote, scum kills us.

I REPEAT DO NOT VOTE.

I will maybe be posting a little bit here and there until 5 EST then Ill be back on around 9 EST tonight and were going to do big stuff.

We do have a small chance of winning this.

[Vaxkiller]

IV you still around? Wanna prove your town?

[Vaxkiller]

IV you still around? Wanna prove your town?

@inno

[Vaxkiller]

huh? It’s not lylo... I don’t understand

It's close enough for a few lost towns and scum to come in and hammer.

Luckily I'm here to right this track.

Inno I need you to prove yourself. Preferably in the next 20 min, in case you will not be around tonight.

Tell me you are willing to do so.

[Vaxkiller]

I need a claim inno.

[Vaxkiller]

I know you read that, you just posted.

[Vaxkiller]

We start with you, ending with me. We are all claiming.

[Vaxkiller]

tick tock inno

[Vaxkiller]

stop voting dude!

I got some stuff to do, and it will change alot. Check back at 9EST as I only got another 5 or so min.

[Vaxkiller]

Ill be on at 9EST for like 3 hours.

[Vaxkiller]

inno, your absence is not looking good.

[Vaxkiller]

Inno. I need ur claim now. May I refer u to dgbs sig?

[Vaxkiller]

Glitch is town

Show them how a claim is done glitch.

Anytime inno, don't wait for me or glitch

[Vaxkiller]

Glitch/starbuck/nopoweroverme

Claims plz so I can get innos claim

[Vaxkiller]

inno we all need to mass claim. It's the only way we can game solve this. Your resistance to this is not good.

[Vaxkiller]

Inno. You dont even say this is a bad idea, you just tell me your not doing it.

I'm just going to move on and assume.

Gamma, your around, I need a claim please. We are game solving this, and I want to do this as quickly as possible.

[Vaxkiller]

It's not too soon. I KNOW we can solve this. Just follow me and trust me.

[Vaxkiller]

Why do you think I started with you inno?

[Vaxkiller]

Tell me what the harm could be. We are 1 step away from losing this. Tomorrow will be too late. I need a claim from you specifically. Make sense?

I thinking after that, it would be quite useful to mass claim for additional helpful reasons. But I cant talk about them yet.

I mean seriously. Are you going to argue with me about this? I'm at my wits end, and ready to just write you off as scum.

I need a claim from you and everyone else and we got this figured out.

I'm thinking we might even have some MORE info that will help a little, but isnt completely necessary.

[Vaxkiller]

I'm thinking we might even have some MORE info that will help a little, but isnt completely necessary.

Find some more info with claims

[Vaxkiller]

I'm thinking we might even have some MORE info that will help a little, but isnt completely necessary.

Find some more info with claims

but is not necessary for my current plan.

[Vaxkiller]

Like everyone and their mother, and their mothers brother, and the mailman, and the dog that bit him last week, and the owners father mothers uncles nephews aunt. Town reads me.

I have info. I cant share that info until the majority of you claim. I'm not waiting for everyone, but I need town to participate.

[Vaxkiller]

We are not rushing this day.

After your claim I will be moving on. There will be MUCH discussion, but in order to get there I need claims. This needs done first, and the longer I wait, the more time scum has to make shit up. So it needs to be now.

[Vaxkiller]

No no no

[Vaxkiller]

That give scum info inno. I want claims first. Then TOWN will have that info and scum will become apparent, then town can make decisions and talk.

[Vaxkiller]

Could you first post up your reads? I do agree it’s interesting you’re singling people out here, specifically IV who kinda seems to be your TR?

This is true, but alas I can not. Im playing my hand close to my chest. Scum is in a bad spot, and spelling out my reads for them will allow them to shift gears, bus, come up with plans, and claims.

[Vaxkiller]

I get town is hesitant, but there is a promised land waiting on the other side for us.

[Vaxkiller]

I have info to share gamma, but its useless without claims.

[Vaxkiller]

*less useful

[Vaxkiller]

Vaxkiller, you targeted innocentvillger.

Is this your claim?

[Vaxkiller]

So you think inno should claim huh DGB?

[Vaxkiller]

Well I’m a VT so I don’t really have much to declare myself.
If we’re popcorning I choose DGB.

Heh, were not really but DGB can claim.

[Vaxkiller]

TY for claiming gamma

[Vaxkiller]

Claims - 1

Claims currently wanted:
Starbuck/Inno/NPOM/DGB

[Vaxkiller]

TY for claiming gamma

You just spit out what you know.

I'm not playing Guillotina Games 2.0

Would you spill the beans before claims so scum can plan?

[Vaxkiller]

town!dgb thinks inno should not claim when town!dgb thinks vax targeted them with something?

Am I getting this right?

[Vaxkiller]

I am vt

Thank you.

[Vaxkiller]

Claims: 2

Gamma VT
NPOM VT

Waiting on DGB/starbuck/Inno/unwnd

[Vaxkiller]

Whats your results?

[Vaxkiller]

I think Vax should go first with his results because I agree with DGB that he was leading up to something

No they have to wait.

Claim.

[Vaxkiller]

This is good inno. Need your results.

[Vaxkiller]

I claim VT as well, which makes me uncomfortable with my other VT claims with how many are dead in the graveyard

Thank you.

[Vaxkiller]

You want me to hardclaim? Do I have to

lol its out there, what reason would you have not to claim your actions?

[Vaxkiller]

"oh shit seriously" what does this mean?

[Vaxkiller]

LOL I laughed so hard at that inno. I literally fell outta my chair.

but can I please get a conf that, it wasnt a joke.

Thank you for your claim.

[Vaxkiller]

your missing last night.
Edit

Your withholding incriminating evidence?

like WTF?

[Vaxkiller]

Claims: 4

Gamma VT
NPOM VT
unwnd VT
Inno Backup tracker Targeted starbuck did not visit anyone n2
glitch visited umlaut n3


Waiting on DGB/starbuck/ABR/insano

[Vaxkiller]

I have a big day tomorrow with my family decorating for Xmas. (weekends are always important to us) I will try, but promise nothing until later tomorrow night around 9EST.

I have about 10 min left.


NO VOTING until we discuss all these results.

[Vaxkiller]

I literally don’t know how to fakeclaim in normals and I saw a couple fakeclaims that were just fucking stupid. So no this is not a fakeclaim

ty for confirmation

You can all discuss, sure, but I need all claims due to additional information I have.

[Vaxkiller]

I have more info that can not be disclosed at this time DGB.

Bug everyone else for claims. You haven't claimed.

I need all the info.

[Vaxkiller]

vax I really hope you know what you’re doing and that you’ve thought this out lol

trust is in your hands

well my claim is out there, claim gais

I have. And its turning out better than expected.

[Vaxkiller]

We got this. Things are looking up.

NO VOTING I REPEAT NO VOTING. We have many things to discuss, but first we need the rest of the claims.

[Vaxkiller]

Tell me what the harm could be. We are 1 step away from losing this. Tomorrow will be too late. I need a claim from you specifically. Make sense?

I thinking after that, it would be quite useful to mass claim for additional helpful reasons. But I cant talk about them yet.

I mean seriously. Are you going to argue with me about this? I'm at my wits end, and ready to just write you off as scum.

I need a claim from you and everyone else and we got this figured out.

I'm thinking we might even have some MORE info that will help a little, but isnt completely necessary.

You got your info specifically from IV, by your own admission you don't need the rest.

No but more will help alot, and I dont want specific people to think I'm being suspicious of them.

I'm being vague so scum don't guess what i know and what im doing.

[Vaxkiller]

I gotta pass out too.

[Vaxkiller]

Claims: 4

Gamma VT
NPOM VT
unwnd VT
Inno Backup tracker Targeted starbuck did not visit anyone n2
glitch visited umlaut n3


Waiting on DGB/starbuck/ABR/insano

[Vaxkiller]

Claim please.

[Vaxkiller]

Isano, claim please. We are all claiming.

[Vaxkiller]

DGB's insistence that we not claim is very anti town.

Claims: 4

Gamma VT
NPOM VT
unwnd VT
Inno Backup tracker Targeted starbuck did not visit n2

Waiting on DGB/starbuck/ABR/insano/Glitch

[Vaxkiller]

Scum may try a really weird gambit. If they do, we are

NOT VOTING until we talk first. All scum will be found today.

Claims needed

[Vaxkiller]

Ok

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Neapolitan

I can only take in VT's What's so hard to understand about that?

Gee thanks for stealing my thunder unwnd

[Vaxkiller]

I'm totally 100% town

Can a Neapolitan Neighborizer neighborize a GOON?

See above

[Vaxkiller]

ABR/DGB/Inno/Gamma

[Vaxkiller]

Umlaut UNWND and I talked extensively last night. We talked about our reads our concerns and our scum reads.

The consensus was ALWAYS ABR/DGB is scum. Like for a 1000 reasons. Inno, NPOM, how could you not see that shit?

Less sure about the others but insanos claim helped launch him onto that list. Gammas actions after everything, scum reading us both? lol



DGB

If I could recruit goons I'd be a fucking Vanilla Neighborizer not a Neapolitan. Did you read the above? Cause I did. I had to look it up.

[Vaxkiller]

It makes LOTS of sense. Because A masonry can include ANY town. A Neapolitan Neighborizer can only include VT's

[Vaxkiller]

How is ANY of that a lie?

[Vaxkiller]

Gish gallop much DGB?

[Vaxkiller]

How is ANY of that a lie?

You had no information that depended on mass claiming.

You lied.

ROFL copters

[Vaxkiller]

Your just mad!

I was intentionally vague as fuck so scum would be tripping of themselves. And well, you did!

[Vaxkiller]

Vax is a Neapolitan/Neighborizer.

He

neighborizes

with anyone who is VT,

but receives NO RESULT for anyone else.

On N1 he targeted May (me) and on N2 he targeted Umluaut. N3 he targeted you IV. What this means however is that the reason that DGB claims Vax got no result is not because of their role, rather it is how Vax's role works. I believe their claim to be completely fake.

I might be stupid but I'm not dumb

That is a lie.

The results you are supposed to get are vanilla or not vanilla.

No result is reserved for blocks.

Oh, your the mod? That is not the way it works.

[Vaxkiller]

Your just mad!

I was intentionally vague as fuck so scum would be tripping of themselves. And well, you did!

Wow

I had a fucking CONFIRMED TOWN GROUP OF PEOPLE.

THat is fucking HUGE

[Vaxkiller]

Why dont you cite the shit your talking about?

[Vaxkiller]

But that's the way my role works. You can shade all you want but its makes 100% sense to me.


OHHHH and well I could prove it too! lol But you aren't interested in that. Tomorrow we will have another VT to confirm umlauts words in our neighborhood. Buuuuuuut, no, your scum and only care about shade.... yes keep shading.

Town we need to talk. And as something I didnt really expect, but should have, none of you are here.

[Vaxkiller]

Vax is a Neapolitan/Neighborizer.

He

neighborizes

with anyone who is VT,

but receives NO RESULT for anyone else.

On N1 he targeted May (me) and on N2 he targeted Umluaut. N3 he targeted you IV. What this means however is that the reason that DGB claims Vax got no result is not because of their role, rather it is how Vax's role works. I believe their claim to be completely fake.

I might be stupid but I'm not dumb

You’re scum. That claim doesn’t make sense as described, you’d have to be both simple and loyal (presuming town alignment). Vax couldn’t even clear shit up and followed you in doubling down on an impossible-as-described claim. Plus generally combined roles don’t have the ability to use both actions at once unless saddled with ANOTHER modifier. So either the NRG approved a role flying in the face of every established normal design convention, or it’s a fakey fake role!

Ty for this. I was so wishy washy on you. I kept saying in our neighborhood I was so unsure about you, but your actions have really confirmed it.

[Vaxkiller]

This

A thousand time this.

OHHHH and well I could prove it too! lol But you aren't interested in that. Tomorrow we will have another VT to confirm umlauts words in our neighborhood. Buuuuuuut, no, your scum and only care about shade.... yes keep shading.

[Vaxkiller]

Big thanks to town for being here, instead of us arguing with scum the whole time.

[Vaxkiller]

DGB
I dont think your following.. or your just gaslighting some weirdness.

[Vaxkiller]

So yeah DGB is caught scum, I am the actual combined Neighborizer/Neapolitan and DGB cannot possibly take back that post 3190 where they directly said Vax targeted IV

So Umlaut didn't vote the recruiter, but the fellow recruit?

Uh uh

I cant find this

Cite.

[Vaxkiller]

AHHA

[Vaxkiller]

Got it!

[Vaxkiller]

Predecessor posts

[Vaxkiller]

Neighborhood was largely unused, until recently.

Date of 2728 Predates Unwnds predecessor claim by 2 days. Umlaut was put into a neighborhood with less than page of posts. Umlauts vote as you quoted is before the Uwnds claim.

[Vaxkiller]

You know what i fucking hate? Arguing with scum. I had a relay positive outlook on this game, but were going to lose it because scum fucks are active and town is literally AFk.

[Vaxkiller]

I pming mod now.

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: Non Imh

I think going after lurkers actually makes a lot of sense right now. Assuming Nero

was

killed by the Mafia, if the whole team were present and active someone would have been hard against that kill. So unless one scum just strongarmed it over their buddies' objections (and that's pretty rare) I'd find it pretty likely that the team consists of multiple highly disengaged lurkers and maybe one seriously active player.

i think

this day should last like, as long as it needs to

there are just, way too many low-content slots that are hard to sort

even if it feels like we're just stalling the game, im willing to wait a week for the prod-replace-catchup process to happen for a few slots and just slow down this game a lot, we have 11+ RL days

I agree with this, no one end the day until we reach the point where everyone has either started playing or been replaced (or made it clear they're not going to do either one)

In Which Umlaut Finally Efforts And Tries to Make a Real Case on Someone

So the intersection of the Day 1 and Day 2 elimination wagons was {

Nero Cain

, muh316, Gamma Emerald, Umlaut, Albert B. Rampage}. These were both pretty 'safe' wagons, and if I were scum I would likely be on one or both of them (which in fact I was, but... I'm not scum) just because they stood out as so guilty-looking that I'd be afraid it was more suspicious

not

to vote them. As such I think there's a pretty good chance of finding scum in this pool.

FMPOV this means looking at {muh316, Gamma Emerald, Albert B. Rampage}. Of these I'm most interested in muh, because he's been on my "maybe this guy is scum?" radar from the beginning and I think I've overlooked him in favor of more interesting targets. (Also he doesn't have six zillion posts so I can ISO him without going crazy)

Spoiler: A whole lot of quoted muh posts with commentary

VOTE: Guillotina

Looks like a new player pretending to be experienced

This post just didn't make any sense to me at the time and still doesn't;

even if this is true, why is it a reason to vote someone?

Nero 3:16 says I just eliminated your ass!


VOTE: muh316

VOTE: Nero I thought we were out of RVS

Explicitly OMGUS, which is not terrible in itself but seems to be replacing a somewhat serious vote on Guil.

muh, comments on guillotina? Seems like you were sussing them earlier

I was suspicious of him because his behavior seems very scripted to me. But the claim seems believable enough that there's no reason to further pursue.

I really dislike this turnaround. Guil had already made the claim when muh voted him in the first place, but crucially at that time IV was kind of grilling Guil about it and others were giving the claim some sideeye as well. By the time IV posted 179 it was clear he

wasn't

really suspicious of Guil and no one else really was either, and suddenly muh has bigger fish to fry and "there's no reason to further pursue"? Seems like he thought Guil was an easy push and then redirected when it turned out he had misread the room.

Moreover this scans more as muh narrating his read progression than talking about Guillotina, which was what he was invited to do and should be more interested in doing.

so basically you are admitting to what I am accusing you of-not paying attention to the game.

The way I read a game is I skim over the unread posts and first respond to things related directly to me. Then I try to re-read later on when my brain is ready to process the other things going on.

I'm super dramatic and I got a big ass ego. How is that alignment indicative?

Given it's D1, we need something to get the game going which is why I pushed you a bit on it.

Both more self-explanation.

even when muh is active in the thread i still dont realize muh is posting. maybe the avatar makes the posts invisible (speaking of gamma i miss the old one).
VOTE: muh

What amazing contributions have you given to the game?

Tu quoque

[snip]

Pushing for something that is NAI is how you usually get the game going? Or just in this game?

I play with multiple year long breaks so I can't really speak on my meta. But coupled with the role claim and the flavor text, you seemed like a good target to generate conversation.

This is completely dodging the point of whether muh believes Guil's content was NAI or not. Even "yes, it's NAI, that's why I moved on" would at least be addressing the point, but muh seems to not want to be pinned down to that interpretation.

Except nobody's forgot about me and I'm the top wagon at the moment.

why is it exactly that you are still doing nothing in this game?

There's nothing for me to do yet

ABR please. There had been a lot of content up to that point. Saying there's nothing to do is just an excuse both town or scum make because they are lazy.

There's literally nothing notable except my wagon and Guillotinas flavor text. There's the glitch wagon but Glitch hasn't posted since that wagon formed on him.

Also, if there was something notable going on we would have had a lot more than a wagon on me and glitch. The past few pages all seem like fluff to me.

Excuses for not contributing. Town can be uninterested too so this is a weak point but it's not nothing.

not for alignment, read order
am biased in favor of activity tho
guil is town for me, iv too

By that criteria you're most likely to be scum then

This post doesn't seem like much, but I'm looking at it now and it screams scum to me. "By your reasoning, you're scum!" is just the sort of

gotcha

remark that no one actually posts as part of a good faith scumhunting effort but only because they want to make a show of engaging people's arguments.

If you think we’re wrong to push you, why do you think it’s happening?

I don't think it's wrong to push me. Go for it. I just know there's scum on the wagon since my playstyle makes me a great candidate for LHF.

Town think (know!) it's wrong to push them, because they're town.

Lol I thought y'all had killed me without asking for a claim. Glad to be alive.

VOTE: Pretentious

This was the seventh vote onto Pretentious, after his fake-quickhammer of muh. That's... a fairly sound reason for a vote, of course. But it's impossible to get a sense of what muh really thought of Pretentious since he didn't say a single word about him for the rest of the day:

How tf do we have 20 pages in a span of a few hours. Anybody got a tl;dr?

So turns out Guillotina is not the only annoying player in the game. I skimmed a couple of pages, looks like a bunch of shitposting to me.

So turns out Guillotina is not the only annoying player in the game. I skimmed a couple of pages, looks like a bunch of shitposting to me.

LOL the irony in this post

At least I don't try to come off as the God of Mafia.

I have to agree with Guil about the irony.

---

VOTE: Guillotina

Not buying the claim.

This is literally muh's entire ISO for Day 2. He didn't buy the claim. Fair enough, the claim was false so not buying it is correct. But he had nothing to say about it until I had already debunked the claim and a wagon had started forming on Guil as a result.

---

VOTE: Non lmh
This slot has been avoiding the conversation for a long time and has managed to dodge replacement.

And this is muh's vote today. Others have already pointed out Non lmh is an easy target. I don't think that in itself makes muh scum (I have made something of a habit of saying "maybe the easy target is an easy target because they're just scum!") but it sure doesn't make him town either.

don't know about that muh guy but i have a person pushing someone who is dead null after 109 pages
i will vote for that person
VOTE: muh

So one inactive person defending another inactive person. Nice.

And this is muh's response to being criticized/voted for the easy lurker push. Which is just dismissal and not engagement (and incidentally is a missed opportunity to drag inactive-May into the game by asking if she actually thinks Non's play is acceptable or what?).

Tl;dr: Muh's day 1 play was terrible and scummy, and his day 2 and 3 play have been nonexistent. We should go back to this.

VOTE: muh316

I replaced in on the same day the claim was made int he neighborhood. Oh look who changed their vote.

[Vaxkiller]

Innoo

[Vaxkiller]

Wake up. Look at DGB, iso them, iso ABR. Look at this shit. I really cant believe you ahve been giving them such a pass.



TVT... WTF?????

WHOS SCUM THEN?

[Vaxkiller]

can someone summarize what has happened these past couple pages ple

Lots of claims force thru by me. Let me find some posts.

[Vaxkiller]

VOTE: abr

NO VOTING


Great vote tho.

[Vaxkiller]

Glitch - No claim
Starbuck - No claim
Insanoflex - 2-Shot Gunsmith (Claims NO GUN on ABR N2, Claims NO GUN on TGP n3)
Gamma Emerald - VT
TheGoldenParadox* - No claim
Albert B. Rampage - 1-shot Bodyguard
NoPowerOverMe - VT
innocentvillager - Universal Backup (Now 1BP Tracker, claims result on Glitch, Starbuck visited no one n2)
unwnd - VT (Neighborized)
Vaxkiller - Neapolitan/Neighborizer
DrippingGoofball - One-shot Rolestopper w/ Doc Utility

Updated list

[Vaxkiller]

Only unwnd is the Neo neighbor

[Vaxkiller]

I read that as 1 shot bulletproof



Tracker

[Vaxkiller]

Im not understanding what's goin on but its late and ive had a few. This is an incredible turn of events that i need to process


We are not voting.

[Vaxkiller]

Im here. I just need to process alot of stuff. Im not playing for 3 hours tonight like the previous 2 im sorry.

Skimming thru, im having a hard time with DGB not being scum.

[Vaxkiller]

Just an FYI. Maybe you already worked past this, but.

MAY claimed in the neighborhood. I freaked out when I joined and talked to umlaut about it in the neighborhood because I thought it was crazy powerful at first, but he seemed to agree that we really have no reason not to trust the claim and that unwnd/may was town.

Umlaut was not as talkative during the night as unwnd and I, but he did participate and agree with our earlier assessment of scum reads.

[Vaxkiller]

gee, thanks

[Vaxkiller]

Ill hammer ABR, but I really want to talk about the coming days. Ill be on tomorrow,

[Vaxkiller]

No one hammers until Starbuck wallposts.

If we did that no one would get faded.

[Vaxkiller]

Ok. I Think I'm ready. I've been reading and I'm ready to figure this out. And also I want to apologize if I was too rude at any point, especially to you DGB. Sometimes I get a little to into this game and really think that scum are evil or something, I think that is why I was swearing so much.

Sorry.

I'll try to keep myself in check a little more.

[Vaxkiller]

If you believe IV then Glitch is scum.

DGB can you explain this to me?

[Vaxkiller]

If you believe IV then Glitch is scum.

DGB can you explain this to me?

IV tracked Glitch to the NK victim Umlaut.

*Vaxkiller slaps face*

[Vaxkiller]

Inno. DGB is like def town to you?

ABR/Glitch are scum. ABR is separately scummy.

Who does that leave us with inno?

[Vaxkiller]

Insano fits that with the claim.

[Vaxkiller]

Inno:

Realtalk. Could scum be a neo neighborizer? I want your opinion on this because you are my biggest town read aside from unwnd. They have done nothing to make me suspect that, but I do see that they are a pretty skilled player.

As I stated before May claimed in the thread before unwnd and I got there. May looks pretty new and and the claim is really genuine, I'm not sure I see a new player like that running this gambit. On top of that, it kinda looks like they claimed because they were worried about non imh coming under pressure and they were thinking of how to stop it.

[Vaxkiller]

I'm asking, because at the beginning of the day I was 99% sure DGB was scum and 99% sure unwnd was town. With DGB possibly being town, I want a second opinion on some of my reads.

[Vaxkiller]

If you believe IV then Glitch is scum.

DGB can you explain this to me?

IV tracked Glitch to the NK victim Umlaut.

*Vaxkiller slaps face*

(His own face.)

[Vaxkiller]

Mod pls replace my scumbuddies ive been so lonely in mafia chat.

Also could be construed as “taunting”

Yes

Can scum do a kill and perform actions? Well I guess if Glitch did that inno would have gotten additional results?

Hmm why would ABR taunt then.

I want to get rid of any PR's the scum may have, so I'd like to fade the right scum.

[Vaxkiller]

So glitch is the correct scum to kill?

We need a claim from starbuck.

[Vaxkiller]

Glitch - 2 shot vig taht shot umlaut
Starbuck - No claim
Insanoflex - 2-Shot Gunsmith (Claims NO GUN on ABR N2, Claims NO GUN on TGP n3)
Gamma Emerald - VT
TheGoldenParadox - VT
Albert B. Rampage - 1-shot Bodyguard
NoPowerOverMe - VT
innocentvillager - Universal Backup (Now 1BP Tracker, Glitch visited Umlaut, Starbuck visited no one n2)
unwnd - Neo Neighborizer
Vaxkiller - VT
DrippingGoofball - One-shot Rolestopper w/ Doc Utility

[Vaxkiller]

Thanks for trying, ABR.

DUDE.

Can we get your thoughts? I get your bored. Can you just read the last few pages and give your thoughts? I'm not asking for the whole game.

Who are YOUR scum reads? Who is OBV town to you? What do you think of all the claimed roles?

Same goes for you Starbuck and TGP.

[Vaxkiller]

Right now my scum reads would be ABR/Glitch/Gamma. Fourth TBD.

Whos obv town to you? You haven't really been around, are you sheeping someone?

Gun to your head, those 3 are dead and you gotta get the 4th. Who do you shoot?

[Vaxkiller]

I dont mean to jump all over you, but there are 3-4 people consistently not really doing much or giving info. THis is make or break time.

[Vaxkiller]

I've noticed when lack of posting comes from two players on the same slot it tends to be scum.

Ok, Ok, I can get with that.

[Vaxkiller]

I could see DGB scum though.

Tell me why you think that. Because I certainly have my own reasons.

[Vaxkiller]

They are pretty involved today tho and they are saying all the right things.

[Vaxkiller]

Well, all the right things recently.

[Vaxkiller]

The doc utility is inherent to rolestopper. I stop everything from targeting my target.

According to the wiki, rolestop basically makes a person ascetic bullet proof, why would someone be Rolestop with doc utility?

[Vaxkiller]

I thought you used up your ability?

No, I have no shot limit.

I just noticed that Vax wrote me as one-shot. I NEVER said I was one-shot.

I copied half that from unwnd

[Vaxkiller]

I know this because I am a rolestopper.

I never used the role until last night, when I was hoping to use it as doc protection on IV.

So there you have the reason why I didn't want to mass claim. I didn't want my doctor utility outed.

Ok. unwnd wrote that.

[Vaxkiller]

Why didnt you claim the rest of your shots then? I'm assuming he thought you were one shot because you claimed 1 night?

[Vaxkiller]

I know this because I am a rolestopper.

I never used the role until last night,

when I was hoping to use it as doc protection on IV.

So there you have the reason why I didn't want to mass claim. I didn't want my doctor utility outed.

Maybe this was already asked, but why didnt you use it every night? Especially since you keep talking about using it as a doctor?????

[Vaxkiller]

You made it crystal clear you were using it as a doctor. But you only used it once?


Why????

[Vaxkiller]

But now its safe to use? You seem really mad about "outting" your "negative utility".

[Vaxkiller]

I feel like I can give you a cheap shot right now... especially with all the crap you just said, but I wont.

Your yelling to start finding actual scum? I am. I have serious concerns about you, mostly about not finding scum. Yesterday, you just sat around and laughed at me voting ABR. Why didnt you engage with me? You had concerns about ABR, but just never pushed it. I came in screaming he was scum and you didnt do anything.
I gotta go, ill be on later tonight.

[Vaxkiller]

If glitch is scum then insano is scum. The roles go are kinda made for each otehr in a way.

[Vaxkiller]

Glitch - 2 shot vig that shot umlaut
Starbuck - No claim
Insanoflex - 2-Shot Gunsmith (Claims NO GUN on ABR N2, Claims NO GUN on TGP n3)
Gamma Emerald - VT
TheGoldenParadox - VT
Albert B. Rampage - 1-shot Bodyguard
NoPowerOverMe - VT
innocentvillager - Universal Backup (Now 1BP Tracker, Glitch visited Umlaut, Starbuck visited no one n2)
unwnd - Neo Neighborizer
Vaxkiller - VT
DrippingGoofball - Rolestopper

So town has

1shot BP tracker
backup tracker (Verifiable) (Not a scum role)
Neo Neighborizer (Verified) (possible scum, but unlikely, see below)
2 Shot gunsmith (verifiableISH) (unlikely scum role)
Rolestopper (Verified) (possible scum role)
1 - shot body guard (Unverifiable/extremely difficult to prove with accuracy) (not a scum role)


@anyone with balancing experience.

How would you balance a scum team against this? What utility could they get?


Someone correct me if im off base here, but the neo neighbor as a scum role seems way to powerful/swingy to me. Every night you get to kill someone as well as check someone else to see if the have a power role. If they dont, they get put into your neighborhood. The swingy part is, if that neighborhood is found out by town and scum flips, its a bunch of confirmed townies. That doesn't seem like good balance to me.

[Vaxkiller]

Glitch is scum tho. Like 100%. So remove the 2 shot vig.

That makes the gunsmith seem sketchy.

[Vaxkiller]

I think neap neighbor's intent would be to rolefish if it were a scum role
neighborhood happens regardless of neap result so on a not-VT you could try to get the target to trust you and claim their role to you

So theoretically you could still target scum with this and get them into your neighborhood.

Hmm.

[Vaxkiller]

I feel like 1 of these roles has to be town and the other scum: Rolestopper / Neo Neighborizer

[Vaxkiller]

Scum need SOMETHING.

Some sort of block usually. But why would town have rolestop and scum get just a roleblock/jailkepp/etc (if they did get it). Doesn't balance out.

[Vaxkiller]

I just feel like ABR's claim is fake regardless, and like I said I think way back...DGB knew that IV was targeted. I don't think DGB is lying about her role at the very least. It just becomes a matter if she's scum

As scum i would have used it every night, think of the pandemonium and confusion i could have wrecked on the game. And to compound the confusion, I would have claimed a different role. Gunsmith would be something that would explain my targets, and for which I would have credible results. Then everyone would be wondering about all those 'no results.'

As scum you wouldn't tell us if you used it or not. It's possible for scum!dgb to never hit anyone.

Could guillotine confuse a "no result" with a guilty?

[Vaxkiller]

Now that I think about this. We really dont need to sort DGB, it will sort it self out. DGB has to rolestop inno each night.

[Vaxkiller]

Is everyone agreed?

[Vaxkiller]

Does the player get informed when its used up?

[Vaxkiller]

Hmm, well there was a NK every night.

[Vaxkiller]

Is there a role that ignores BP?

[Vaxkiller]

Strongman

[Vaxkiller]

Hmmm It does not list strongman/rolestop interaction.

[Vaxkiller]

Hmmm It does not list strongman/rolestop interaction.

anyone know how this would work>?

[Vaxkiller]

I'm ok with this plan.

I dont have a whole lot else to say, ill probably make a big post up of my thoughts and where im at before we end the day BUUUUT

I think we should wait for Starbuck still.