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[Dwlee99]

first

VOTE: DGB

[Dwlee99]

There can only be one
GETTEM

VOTE: Dwlee99

Duel accepted!
VOTE: Derek12

[Dwlee99]

Playing like this is mountainous will not increase winrate at all. Mountainous games get a win rate lower than theoretical random elims.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: petapan
Serious vote

[Dwlee99]

I am also glad you scum claimed.

[Dwlee99]

[Dwlee99]

Playing like this is mountainous will not increase winrate at all. Mountainous games get a win rate lower than theoretical random elims.

Did you read my post?

Crumb your targets and results.

If a player is run up to E-1, and claims anything, hammer away. Claims have become mod shenanigans. They make the game WORSE than mountainous.

I strongly disagree with this. Do you mean roles that seem like they should be one alignment being another? When I modded once I did some "shenanigans" ig, but you're still able to check it for balance and figure out roles. These games have to be reviewed for normalcy and balance, so I don't think throwing out the setup makes any sense here, especially when mountainous is notoriously bad for town. Town even loses white flag typically.

[Dwlee99]

Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Mason
Vanilla Townie
Mafia Doctor
Vanilla Townie
Vanilla Townie
Town Mason
Town Follower
Mafia Tracker
Mafia Goon
Town 2-Shot Vigilante
Town 1-Shot Tracker

Should town ignore the roles in this setup?

[Dwlee99]

yes please try to double down on your sidetrack because you think you have

such a great point

It's the only thing happening in the game and playing mafia is the only thing I feel like doing before a BBQ with my family today.

What about a neighborhood with two traitors, the town kills one, then the other traitor is treated as conftown because no mod would have a neighborhood of two traitors?

Assuming alignments in a neighborhood is always bad. It could have been maf + traitor too to give a chance to figure out who the traitor is. I've seen a mafia, traitor, town neighborhood before (iirc). Your issue isn't using roles, it's assuming neighborhood compositions are alignment indicative.

[Dwlee99]

Titus, are you proposing everyone just claims who they would target with their night action openly?

[Dwlee99]

Titus, are you proposing everyone just claims who they would target with their night action openly?

A pool of two or three should be crumbed. I'm horrible at crumbing so it might turn out to be a straight up claim.

That's true of people with no night action as well.

I feel like this plan gives scum a ton of information on how to organize their night actions and will lock our power roles into actions before a flip occurs. So, no we shouldn't do this.

What about a neighborhood with two traitors, the town kills one, then the other traitor is treated as conftown because no mod would have a neighborhood of two traitors?

Assuming alignments in a neighborhood is always bad. It could have been maf + traitor too to give a chance to figure out who the traitor is. I've seen a mafia, traitor, town neighborhood before (iirc). Your issue isn't using roles, it's assuming neighborhood compositions are alignment indicative.

not an assumption it actually happened

I know it happened, I read some of the game.

[Dwlee99]

@peta/Nero, I largely feel Dwlee was scum that didn't know how to react as well. It almost feels like Dwlee is going to rely on a claim to get him through given the strong playerlist.

Homie what

[Dwlee99]

Masons have to have a partner for it to be normal I think.

Nero gets to be town. Titus is nullscum for the way she interacted with the DGB proposal and her early vote on me. Peta is weird af for holding onto this "mod meta" that is apparently so important but not important enough to just say.

[Dwlee99]

I OMGUS'd you and you responded badly. The rest is NAI mech talk. I'm not gonna act like people should townread me for arguing against anti-town play like claiming night targets and not using claims at all, but when half the game hasn't posted it's silly to act like I'm scum for arguing against something I disagree with.

Masons have to have a partner for it to be normal I think.

Nero gets to be town. Titus is nullscum for the way she interacted with the DGB proposal and her early vote on me. Peta is weird af for holding onto this "mod meta" that is apparently so important but not important enough to just say.

"weird" because you can't actually even begin to broach why i'd bother to do that as scum (i wouldn't) but want to act like it's bad anyway

You acted like you had a power role and then walked it back to mod meta you haven't claimed yet.

[Dwlee99]

I'd comment more but you kinda just said what I said more articulately.

[Dwlee99]

Is Osuka also evil, peta?

[Dwlee99]

Your reads are inconsistent then

[Dwlee99]

Or I'm just letting you know that if you're town you're being dumb. Idk if it's your style to death tunnel like this.

[Dwlee99]

Do you even read the shit you say before you post it too? I'm trying to get your opinion on Osuka and you're telling me inconsistency doesn't matter and that I'm trying to score ticky-tacky points.

[Dwlee99]

i think it happens a lot that people who talk more early r more likely town

especially ones who get into big discussions

Titus did you start townreading me or just start scumreading peta more?

Rathe I feel like you're evil.

[Dwlee99]

y is rathe evil?

Something about the posts I quoted in combination with the rest of his play pinged me. It reads like either saying nothing or a bad justification for his reads.

i think it happens a lot that people who talk more early r more likely town

especially ones who get into big discussions

Titus did you start townreading me or just start scumreading peta more?

Rathe I feel like you're evil.

Scumreading peta more. I'm in a state of conflict with you two. I am scumreading you both yet you both shouldn't be scum together. So that means I am wrong somewhere. Having wagons on you both lets me assess you both at the same time.

Do you think it is possible we are both town butting heads? The one reason I don't think this is the case is because peta seems absolutely determined to turboelim me for bad reasons, but ig sometimes town tunnel like that.

[Dwlee99]

Rathe I feel like you're evil.

do u think so cuz im voting u or cuz of another reason

154

[Dwlee99]

Amen to that VOTE: Rathe

[Dwlee99]

No, I changed my vote because I think Peta might be just stubborn town and I already said I find rathe scummy. His response to me saying I thought he was evil was "k" and ignoring the post where I explained why I didn't like his post to ask me if it was just because he was voting me.

[Dwlee99]

If you want my opinion on my whole wagon

Derek12 - null hasn't done anything but I agree with him that you and Nero are probably town
Anya - I don't remember anything coming from this slot
Petapan - stubborn town or evil
DrippingGoofball - I feel like the plan is very "DGB" which makes it not alignment indicative. Other content from it, I feel like I haven't really had an opinion on. I think its only contributions to the game have been calling me evil on dubious grounds so null.
Rathe - evil for reasons I already explained

[Dwlee99]

Okay just checked to make sure, three people voting me have done basically nothing.

[Dwlee99]

Nero, how strongly do you feel about peta!scum?

[Dwlee99]

I could always be wrong but I feel p strongly so lets say 70/30

Do you townread rathe?

DGB: theory
Dwelee: no
peta: anyone who denies the theory is scum x10000
people: vote

I don't read it that Dwlee is scum for denying DGB's theory.
Can you point to where I'm wrong?

Dweleeis somehow scum for trying to wriggle out of a lim by fake claiming pr.

Maybe I'm just dumb here, but I still don't see it?

T3 is being sarcastic. Titus floated the idea that I was scum planning to use a claim to coast through the strong playerlist and that was why I was opposed to DGB's plan.

[Dwlee99]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

[Dwlee99]

Fair enough @nero, we shall see how the day progresses.

[Dwlee99]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

Yeah I didn't like the information comment.
I don't see the actual mod meta, was there any?

Not that I recall.

[Dwlee99]

you're saying i might be stubborn, it's barely been a day into the game though, do you believe from your posting up through now i should be seeing you as town?

You should be at least trying to gather new info on me to update your read, which you haven't done at all. We had an exchange where I asked about your Osuka read because I wanted to know what was different about their reaction to DGB's plan and you twisted that into me being scum.

[Dwlee99]

You're doing the exact same thing to Nero because every post where he talks about different thought processes he has you talk about how it is total bullshit and it's tiring. DotW put it nicely when he said you're twisting anything to put fire on people.

[Dwlee99]

Private topic/private thread. It's a thread that a limited number of people in the game have access to (like the mafia chat, for instance).

[Dwlee99]

Peta claimed to have "important setup info" then walked it back to "mod meta." The push on me that he has made is also terribad and I feel like he has failed to engage with me in a way that town would (as in, he acts like he has the game solved and doesn't even want to consider he could be wrong).

am i stubborn town or not engaging in a way that town would, i didn't make any posts between this one an d the last i quoted, so why the difference?

Sorry, inconsistencies don't matter.
Seriously though, you selectively quoted this to remove the context of someone asking why I think you might be scum which is exactly the kind of nonsense I'm talking about.

[Dwlee99]

Fair enough cause I didn't quote it. Thought I did.

[Dwlee99]

still waiting on whatever happened in that pt, this is important

for the first day it was just me posting in there asking if anyone else was there bc i couldn't tell and also wasn't sure whether everyone in there is town or not

and then kyouko showed up and started jokingly claiming wolf but in a really weird way it was like he had a guilty conscious and wanted to get it off his chest but try and make it look like a joke

i'll give you a paraphrased example of what he said: "Sup I haven't played scum before but I'm gonna be pocketing you, it's nothing personal and I won't mind if you push me ftr"

and then i questioned him on it and he jokingly deflected and eventually said he was completely joking and he's definitely town but the way he's nervously declaring himself a city dweller feels really weird

Kyouko has played mafia before which makes it more likely a joke? Still weird though.

[Dwlee99]

I can't wait to fly this Halloween and shine some bright lights out of my behind towards Rathe.

[Dwlee99]

I think that nomnomnom got literally nothing out of me voting for Rathe. Hence the "Dwlee could have done it as town or scum for different reasons :thonk:"

[Dwlee99]

"either of out of genuine interest" (town!Dwlee) or
"because he's trying to go out of the 1v1" (scum!Dwlee)
415 is functionally saying nothing.

[Dwlee99]

I think if it was preplanned like that he would have tried to push me for it sooner instead of waiting for you to ask about it.

[Dwlee99]

But then what even is the plan you're suggesting? He made a plan to call me scum when he didn't want to do it? 415 isn't even calling me scum, it's functionally saying he got nothing out of it.

[Dwlee99]

So you think he is a possible buddy for peta? What if rathe is evil though and we get him?

On another note wrt the neighborhood, I don't think we should touch the neighborhood for now.

[Dwlee99]

When did I ever say I bought into that theory? You and Nero both having reading comprehension issues.

[Dwlee99]

I asked Nero to clarify, and then said I still wanted to get Rathe + wanted his opinion on your alignment if Rathe is evil. The entire discussion was me saying I didn't buy Nero's theory because it didn't make sense. What you're reading into it is nonsense.

[Dwlee99]

You can lead a cat to a cat but can't make it nom.

[Dwlee99]

I was asking for your opinion on nom if Rathe flipped scum, not your opinion on Rathe.

[Dwlee99]

it wouldn't change much honestly. Sometimes scum vote each other to distance and it's not like nom stuck to the wagon. Are you implying that nom isn't scum b/c he voted rathe for a hot minute? eh, I guess you could make that argument.

Well he didn't just vote, he also pushed others to hop onto the wagon which had the potential to form something bigger. Point taken on him not sticking with it though.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Pete you play like you know DGB is town.

[Dwlee99]

Homie you moaned that I was trying to delay game play on page 1 by talking about its mech suggestions and on page way greater than one you're responding to DGB's continual posts that only talk about mech stuff like it is an innocent child.

[Dwlee99]

I also want to know, pete, what kind of meta you're smoking if you're that sure DGB is town. Okay, so it opened with a post about setups being fucky and you townread it for that, sure, but what has DGB done since then? I've quoted all of the non-mech related stuff here

Spoiler: dgb posts

VOTE: Dwlee99

lol nero and dwlee are absolutely howling right now

yes

VOTE: kyouko

everyone is saying he is town but i dont think so

VOTE: osuka

I agree with you

Titus, Kyoko is scum.

Titus, Kyoko is scum.

From what was said in the PT or from main game?

Both

oops i just dropped my

491 revolver

that i use for cooking betting go into my workshop

gun room

so i can get a replacement before

petapan

does

still waiting on whatever happened in that pt, this is important

for the first day it was just me posting in there asking if anyone else was there bc i couldn't tell and also wasn't sure whether everyone in there is town or not

and then kyouko showed up and started jokingly claiming wolf but in a really weird way it was like he had a guilty conscious and wanted to get it off his chest but try and make it look like a joke

i'll give you a paraphrased example of what he said: "Sup I haven't played scum before but I'm gonna be pocketing you, it's nothing personal and I won't mind if you push me ftr"

and then i questioned him on it and he jokingly deflected and eventually said he was completely joking and he's definitely town but the way he's nervously declaring himself a city dweller feels really weird

Idk everything in that pt feels like a joke, like anya is crumbing all kinds of different roles but she crumbed traitor first and I think she's just crumbing others now to throw me off. I'm just going to keep an EYE on her tonight and by eye I mean GUN

I believe you.

VOTE: Anya

What here is so townie? What even is the progression from 406, 412, and 424? It makes no sense, and neither does strongly townreading DGB no matter what meta you think you might have or how townie you think its opening post was.

[Dwlee99]

Does Dunnstral hard lurk now or is he just evil?

[Dwlee99]

I have thoughts on nom but I'll wait for people on the wagon to respond because I assume that is who you'd like to hear from.

[Dwlee99]

STD do you not think I'm evil anymore or are you just plopping your vote somewhere else for fun?

[Dwlee99]

If everyone agrees with limming him do we even really get anything out of it? I definitely want that slot dead, but I'm kind of praying for a vig rather than a lim.

[Dwlee99]

Is that a yes to both of those or just the lurking one

[Dwlee99]

Peta can you answer 504?

[Dwlee99]

Why not?

[Dwlee99]

i wouldn't say the posts he quoted are inherently towny in a vacuum but i don't think they're especially bad, at all, and in light of the body of work i don't have a problem with it. if all she'd done was those votes/reads i wouldn't be confidently townreading there, but the strength of the read from

other posts

means it doesn't matter that much.

What are the "other posts?" I quoted its entire ISO except for the mech related posts which I don't find alignment indicative.

i don't think switching from scumreading kyouko to voting anya after kyouko made a post explaining himself is scummy at all, and in fact explicitly dislike dwlee trying to frame it as bad in some way. it's like, someone thinks one thing > someone explains themself > they change their mind. that sequence is probably +town if anything

I typically like to see some sort of explanation for the change. Kyouko wasn't scumreading Anya I don't think (or at least wasn't voting her) so DGB saying "I believe you" and switching to Anya feels like it requires more explanation. Unvoting Kyouko, sure, I can understand that from what Kyouko posted, but why Anya?

[Dwlee99]

You know what, I just lost a game to STD so I wanna see where this goes
VOTE: STD

[Dwlee99]

We lost that game in an interesting way because I would have wanted to get you/Tris/No Lim out in the group of 3 thing, but regardless of that, I think your posting is kind of similar. I can't tell if it's just your playstyle so maybe I should look into your past games (I hate meta but whatever) to see if it's the same, but the way you kinda just pop in do random stuff bothers me. It's the like how I'm baffled by the townread on DGB when it does the same thing.

[Dwlee99]

I see you make votes and do ~things~ but I feel like I don't have any insight into what you're thinking which makes it hard for me to know if you're evil.

[Dwlee99]

I'm asking you to explain your read. These questions aren't for me to figure out DGB's alignment, it's to figure out yours.

[Dwlee99]

I just don't understand how it is town-indicative for DGB to do very little except to talk about (what we agree is) anti-town mechanical play, but it is scum-indicative that I disagreed with it and discussed it in the beginning of the game. You accused me of trying to appear busy by talking about it (on page 1 and 2 no less) but you're fine with DGB posting about it in two digit pages and contributing little elsewhere.

[Dwlee99]

to a certain extent this seems like annoyance at people who aren't saying much getting townread. i don't like the vote but the actual interaction with save the dragons is a little better, but rather than actually prodding him to explain anything it's just saying "you don't explain yourself so i think you might be scum" which is not much of a launching point for anything

I am a very talkative player so yeah. I was hoping STD might explain at least some of their current thoughts in response but I'm beginning to suspect that's not going to happen. Guess I could have been more direct in asking for thoughts on a specific thing.

but the way you phrase this seems like you decidedly don't think dgb should be townread for what it's doing, so why are you apparently totally uninterested in speaking to dgb?

I'm fine with people having a slight townread on DGB, you said your read is much stronger than that. I am decently null on the slot and want to direct my focus. Determining your alignment is infinitely more useful than determining DGB's because you have way more interactions with other people in the game and are going to be here responding.

anyway, the answer is only ever going to boil down to "i've played with dgb before and the things you are claiming are strange amount to playstyle quirks rather than anything alignment indicative". that's unlikely to satisfy you and i absolutely do not give a fuck

I understand a lot of the strange things are playstyle which is why I'm null-reading it and why I asked you for an explanation of the town-read. If it all comes down to the mech stuff then okay I guess we will just disagree on that.

[Dwlee99]

Anya/Kyo have either of you asked Gypyx for the list of people in your neighborhood?

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee is still scum for being persistently salty that people town read me instead of scumreading me as was his plan.

This is all just made up. Scumreading you was my plan? I null read you like I said if you had read the thread.

[Dwlee99]

@Mod: Can you put VFP in the first post as having replaced hugs?

Nero can you explain your last posts' reads like I don't believe in pre-flip associatives (ESRLIDBIPFA)?

[Dwlee99]

Nero I just don't get your Titus stuff. Feels like all of your stuff there is 1. Not enough posts and 2. Pre-flip associatives (which aren't even necessarily valid because a town player can easily be between voting two town as well). What am I missing about that vote?

[Dwlee99]

On the flip side I want peta to really think about whether a me and Nero team even makes sense because it doesn't and feels like he might just be pushing us to push us it's dumb.

[Dwlee99]

On the flip side I want peta to really think about whether a me and Nero team even makes sense because it doesn't and feels like he might just be pushing us to push us it's dumb.

why does it not make sense lol

I don't think scum!Nero would defend a scum!Dwlee in that way also Nero posts like town also I am town so you're probably doubly wrong not even singly.

[Dwlee99]

I expect town to try to at least mentally fit scumreads together, why does it make sense, peta?

[Dwlee99]

Nero can you pick a different person from your list to vote? Not feeling this one.

[Dwlee99]

I don't want to think about the neighbors right now.

[Dwlee99]

Traitor traitor again? Or is it scum traitor or is it scum scum? Which you liking the best?

[Dwlee99]

[Dwlee99]

I don't want to think about the neighbors right now.

Dwlee - if you're ignoring the neighbors, give a few specific players you're looking to push.

My current vote preference:
1) peta
2) kyo
3) anya
4) one of the lurkers

Town reads/leans:
- DGB
- T3
- Nom

Confused by:
Nero

One of the lurkers I think is our best bet. There are enough of them that I wouldn't be surprised if most of the game has just been town yelling at each other.

[Dwlee99]

I think claiming the hood early is the best thing to do as town unless you can convince me otherwise.

[Dwlee99]

can you get specific as to who you see as lurking, just curious

Save The Dragons -more active but kind of lurkingish
Derek12
Andresvmb
Dunnstral

Okay on second thought maybe there aren't quite enough of them but if we buy Nero's "titus is active lurking" claim then there are a lot of them.

I think claiming the hood early is the best thing to do as town unless you can convince me otherwise.

It's not "the best thing to do as town" because given that hoods have zero alignment information, it's a pointless distraction to scumhunting - like your entire iso.

The shade
Hoods are good to claim as town because they probably have scum in them which means scum would already know about it, so the town should be told.

So you think no one that's been active is scummy enough to vote over a lurker? Or at least push further before settling on a lurker?

I mean I interrogated peta for a while and kinda lost that scumread. You're kinda scummy but I don't feel that strongly about it. I just don't feel strongly about any scumleans or anything and it's making me think scum might be in the shadows.

[Dwlee99]

@Dwlee "hoods are great to claim because they probably have scum"

I guess you're right since they're both scum

You can just say you agree with me that it's best for town to claim the hood now, y'know.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Dunnstral

[Dwlee99]

what are your thoughts on Titus and why did you never give your thoughts on nom?

I think the thing about Titus active lurking is kinda meh and I don't like the pre-flip associatives otherwise. I likewise just don't feel strongly on the nom stuff. Nom's posting feels good enough to me on a tonal read

[Dwlee99]

@Dwlee "hoods are great to claim because they probably have scum"

I guess you're right since they're both scum

You can just say you agree with me that it's best for town to claim the hood now, y'know.

Only if they are scum making theater. Both need to die.

And if it is one scum one town?

[Dwlee99]

DGB keeps disagreeing with me on the most random and stupid mechanical stuff and I think it is just DGB indicative rather than alignment.

[Dwlee99]

DGB calling me scum ad nauseam vaguely feels like how she's pushed me before as scum. If the hood is T/T then there's some basic scum motivation to want to push there.

The push on me is also sort of incomprehensible.

[Dwlee99]

What if we just linked arms, sang a happy song, and yeeted Dunnstral out of this atmosphere?

[Dwlee99]

Who would you do besides Dunn?

Andre. I'm having a hard time rn reading the more active posters.

[Dwlee99]

I could compromise on that slot sure.

[Dwlee99]

Is that a yes to both of those or just the lurking one

That's your job to figure out

I can make it easier moving forward

sorta felt like this was a cheeky town response. He's not a terrible d1 elimination b/c he'll just eat up night actions and/or be unreadable for the rest of the game.

But then he didn't make it easier

[Dwlee99]

DGB you're ultra cringe rn.

[Dwlee99]

Anya I've been convinced, throw DGB on the pile of people I'm willing to lim.

[Dwlee99]

Peta, I'm convinced that if I told you my favorite Wawa smoothie you'd think it was scum-indicative.

[Dwlee99]

Peta, I'm convinced that if I told you my favorite Wawa smoothie you'd think it was scum-indicative.

What is it?

Caramel Cream.

[Dwlee99]

Peta, I'm convinced that if I told you my favorite Wawa smoothie you'd think it was scum-indicative.

You've got this weird shtick this game whining about players that scumread you instead of scum hunting.

It's probably alignment-indicative.

I think I at least have a decent chance of any of my reads being correct.

[Dwlee99]

I'm pretty sure the point was that Nero said Titus was lurking, someone later said he said it after she went V/LA and he said no I didn't and then there are an argument about it. What am I missing?

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: DGB

[Dwlee99]

DGB giving me big "please send me flying into the sun" energy right now.

[Dwlee99]

That was very strange.

[Dwlee99]

If I agree with the mis rep, I'll vote with you. Just to give you motivation here.

I find this sort of thing strange @nero

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Nom

[Dwlee99]

Nero, if you're so certain I'm sure you can vig shoot her or something.

[Dwlee99]

Plus I see the post thread view count going up so someone keeps checking in without posting.

This might be me.

[Dwlee99]

Is nom town or is VFP bussing?

[Dwlee99]

He certainly seems genuinely frustrated! Too bad that doesn't tell us if it is scum or town motivation!

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: DGB

Nah, this ain't it. I'm not seeing why people started SRing DGB. Their style of posts haven't changed at all since the same people town read them at the start of the game, even if you find their most recent posts, to quote you, "cringe"

It is like every post is meant to infuriate me in a subtle way that I think means it is scum.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: DGB

Nah, this ain't it. I'm not seeing why people started SRing DGB. Their style of posts haven't changed at all since the same people town read them at the start of the game, even if you find their most recent posts, to quote you, "cringe"

It is like every post is meant to infuriate me in a subtle way that I think means it is scum.

Infuriates me = scum is not the best take I've seen. Half the people in this game have been outright rude to each other repeatedly lol

It's about the way it irritates me though. There is a qualitative difference between how DGB's posts bother me and the way that the people being rude bothers me.

[Dwlee99]

I'm just not seeing how that can be AI unless you take issue with the actual game-related content in the posts

I do take issue with them because they gut bother me in a way I think is scum-indicative.

[Dwlee99]

Y'all (more specifically VFP but) responding to every single thing each other says is making the game harder to read.

[Dwlee99]

DGB was also saying "nom is town" right up until the 1v1 was called and then it turned into "VPF is bussing"

[Dwlee99]

What if we did a DGB wagon?

[Dwlee99]

What if we did a DGB wagon?

are there enough votes?

Why aren't you voting Titus?

I think I'm voting DGB that's why. More sold on that than a Titus yeet.

[Dwlee99]

Oh wait I switched to nom
VOTE: DGB
Sorry VFP

[Dwlee99]

Dragon just vote one of us and move on.

i’ll do better

dayvig:

vfp

What do you think you got out of this?

[Dwlee99]

It's about the way it irritates me though. There is a qualitative difference between how DGB's posts bother me and the way that the people being rude bothers me.

????????????

The posts are scummy? What else do you want to hear here?

[Dwlee99]

chaosomega hasn't posted a single time since subbing in, not even a "hi guys how's it going" post

granted it's the first time he's been active on the site in 4 years but it's still very ???

I was noticing that too.

[Dwlee99]

Oops meant to say more, I feel like if Chaos saw the screen dripping red when opening the role pm that it gives credence to the idea that there are a lot of scum in less active players. I imagine: "hey y'all how is it going what has happened that I need to know" *crickets* but this is all just conjecture.

[Dwlee99]

She thinks ridiculously overconfident hot takes from me means I'm scum

Does it not?

[Dwlee99]

With 3 days left I am definitely looking to kill someone

[Dwlee99]

Peta we have made so much progress together haven't we?

I'm skeptical of a Dunn wagon because I want DGB's head and also we have a Titus wagon that I'm fine with I think. The claim is weird and I believe the role at the very least. I found the "claiming who you would vig or protect is bad because babysitter" comment very strange given that Titus was one of the people in favor of people claiming targets at the beginning of the game.

[Dwlee99]

She thinks ridiculously overconfident hot takes from me means I'm scum

Does it not?

It's looking more and more like you do not like me on a personal level.

I am still town.

Oh c'mon that's totally unfair. You're cool.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Dunn

[Dwlee99]

I'm also good with Andre and actually feel he is scummier than Dunn

[Dwlee99]

Bussing is when there is a fast wagon because busses go fast like the wagon fast

[Dwlee99]

Sometimes counterwagons bring a wagon from town to scum and that is good.

[Dwlee99]

Can we at least get a claim first?

[Dwlee99]

You do this weird thing where you act like I'm town and then go back to getting weirdly indignant claiming that I'm evil. What's up w that?

[Dwlee99]

Indignant is not the word there but you know what I mean.

[Dwlee99]

Because it reads hella forced when you just randomly start calling me evil in that context?

[Dwlee99]

Spoiler: quote wall of weird vibes

She thinks ridiculously overconfident hot takes from me means I'm scum

Does it not?

It's looking more and more like you do not like me on a personal level.

I am still town.

Can we at least get a claim first?

Sorry we're not letting scum fakeclaim anymore so sad for your team.

What do you think of Rathe?

I could compromise on that slot sure.

You guys realize you're posting this in the game thread and not the scum PT, right?

Traitor traitor again? Or is it scum traitor or is it scum scum? Which you liking the best?

As scum, you should know the answer to this question. Which is it?

[Dwlee99]

In fact, if you think I'm evil, 1511 doesn't even make sense.

[Dwlee99]

Rip

[Dwlee99]

why did they kill nero lol

That's what I'm trying to figure out. I guess there were never any universal townreads though.

[Dwlee99]

I thought peta was gonna die personally.

[Dwlee99]

Lying about what?

I am a babysitter enabler

The kill suggests that this isn't true.

Are you suggesting that if someone dies there can't be a babysitter?

[Dwlee99]

I don't agree that scum would have to be in the mindset of looking for a baby sitter if there is one.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Andre
I want this

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: DGB
I'm still good with this.

[Dwlee99]

I don't really think that Kyo is scummy and I think Anya is townie. Anya seems to believe that Kyo is good so that's good enough for me right now.

[Dwlee99]

Oops I meant to link 888 not 880.

But they haven't done or explained anything. And for some reason that's good enough for everyone. You're jumping on a bad wagon, DGB is town

My 964 was in response to 961 which I took as a good reason to scumread DGB. I'm willing to vote Andre if there's momentum for that.

[Dwlee99]

even those reads don't seem to have a ton of conviction

Correct. i don't have strong reads right now.

[Dwlee99]

All he did was accuse me of strategic vla.

I don't think this is an accurate retelling of what happened?

[Dwlee99]

titus wagon is dead.

Dunn prob ends up being the days lynch and eh fine

im still investigating andre but im changing my vig target to DGB

Nero wasn't going to investigate Titus if he was an investigative role.

[Dwlee99]

Side note: @Dwlee I don't know how you can read Kyo's ISO and think "this is good enough for me" as town!Dwlee

I haven't read Kyo's ISO.

[Dwlee99]

I don't really understand the push on Kyo. I trust town!anya to be able to read her neighbor's alignment better than we can here. They can play that minigame, we can play in the real world of the thread.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: Andre

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:
Okay Andre you have my attention

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: DGB
Okay let's flip this.

[Dwlee99]

I'm fine pushing there too but babysitter enabler is probably a real role claim and if we think both are caught no sense killing that one first. Although I would also hope that someone would have redchecked Titus last night if we had an investigative.

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: DGB

Nah, this ain't it. I'm not seeing why people started SRing DGB. Their style of posts haven't changed at all since the same people town read them at the start of the game, even if you find their most recent posts, to quote you, "cringe"

Like yeah, if DGB flips Scum absolutely nuke this slot.

Andres, we are going to have problems. You're scumreading my towncore pretty hard. That's DGB and Dragon ftr.

Titus why are we so disjoint on any of our feelings this game? Would call you on to reevaluate cause one of us was correct on Nero but that might be a bit presumptuous of me.

[Dwlee99]

DGB + DotW + Titus all just insisting they are a town block gives me the heeby jeebies.

[Dwlee99]

DGB + DotW + Titus all just insisting they are a town block gives me the heeby jeebies.

explain

I think you and DotW are evil and Titus is pretty likely to be a mafia babysitter enabler. That makes your town block all scumreads for me.

[Dwlee99]

I'm not going to overthink it if I scumread those slots. Maybe I'm wrong but I feel at least decent about two of those three being evil.

[Dwlee99]

If you're town don't form town blocks with the scummiest people in the game

[Dwlee99]

UNVOTE:
Mm

[Dwlee99]

I'm frustrated that my scumreads are just going "no actually we are all town." Nero could be dead for the WIFOM or because he was also pushing the exact three players. If Dragon has an inno on you though so be it I guess, I just hope he got a "town" pm and not a "doesn't have a gun."

[Dwlee99]

Dwlee, if you're town, have you considered you're just wrong on us?

I did in 1762. I at least know one confirmed town agreed with me too so I feel like I can't be completely off base.

I'm frustrated that my scumreads are just going "no actually we are all town." Nero could be dead for the WIFOM or because he was also pushing the exact three players. If Dragon has an inno on you though so be it I guess, I just hope he got a "town" pm and not a "doesn't have a gun."

probably best to just leave it be for now and not keep pressing, turn your attention elsewhere

i have issues with titus but will get into them later

I guess. Turning my attention elsewhere I'd want to focus on STD I think.

[Dwlee99]

He's null for me and my mind doesn't remember thinking he has done much so sorting him could be good.
Pedit: also Beetlejuice lol

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: STD

[Dwlee99]

VOTE: T3
Okay I'll buy it

[Dwlee99]

I think anya, Kyo, and peta are town and so I don't think I see a single vote on scum in T3's ISO

[Dwlee99]

He did flip between rathe -> nom -> chaos within the span of 4 posts at one point so maybe he hit scum in there? I want to see more from him and he kinda came into the end of day one without acknowledging Nero was going to hammer once he voted.

[Dwlee99]

Babysitter enabler allows the babysitter to do their actions. An enabler role could be either alignment.

[Dwlee99]

votecount 2.4

Anya (6) :

DrippingGoofball - T3 - Titus - ssbm_Kyouko - Dragon Of The West - Dwlee99

Exe-2

T3 (3) :

ChaosOmega - petapan - Save The Dragons

DrippingGoofball (1) :

Anya

Titus (1) :

VFP

Osuka (1) :

Rathe

Not voting (3) :

Andresvmb - Vaxkiller - osuka

Day 2 ends in (expired on 2021-06-23 17:23:11)

, with 15 alive, it takes 8 to slap someone

annoncements

thanks for the VC noraa

prodding Osuka

flavor

video number 1487
content - game OST
would recommend? - if electronic music is your kinda stuff

I'm not voting Anya

@mod

[Dwlee99]

SSBM is also not voting Anya and is voting T3.

[Dwlee99]

Babysitter enabler allows the babysitter to do their actions. An enabler role could be either alignment.

It's a pro town role tho. If scum had it, wouldn't they just mega bus that player for street cred and no more baby sitters?

But wouldn't it be obvious if they just bussed it? The role is negative-utility if it's a town role and positive-utility if it's a scum role.

[Dwlee99]

on top of neighbor i'm a 2-shot annoucing Voyeur

targeted peta last night

Result?

[Dwlee99]

Also @peta confirm?

[Dwlee99]

Did you see that your target didn't perform an action?

[Dwlee99]

I guess that's what you're saying.

[Dwlee99]

Oh yeah I got it mixed up but now Anya is claiming a no results pm.

[Dwlee99]

I don't think this indicates peta is evil here.

[Dwlee99]

I'm still leaning towards scum with that claim though.

Why? I think it would be weird for scum to go no actions done -> no result. Voyeur is also a weird role for scum to have.

The way DotW is looking to shade Anya is so bizarre I would absolutely blow it up.

DotW claimed cop inno on dgb though.

[Dwlee99]

DotW claimed cop inno on dgb though.

To clarify, this is the reason I don't want to yeet the slot @andre.

[Dwlee99]

Anya knows their neighbor claim won't save them. So they need another PR that looks good, but they need to explain not getting any results. It looks like a convienent way to survive. I don't see scum blocking anya here, and that's the most likely way her story is true.

But in the initial claim it clearly seems at first she thought she did get a result (no one targeted) and announcing. I think we at least give Anya a night to target someone else and confirm an announcing role.

[Dwlee99]

DGB + DotW + Titus all just insisting they are a town block gives me the heeby jeebies.

In case people ever need to come back to this to solve the game, I can only confirm DGB and myself as town. Titus is just a read right now

I interpreted this an inno result @andre

[Dwlee99]

My most recent completed game had a town rolestopper so I could see that being a reason for no Anya result @titus.

[Dwlee99]

The moonlogic is strong even for Titus right now.

[Dwlee99]

Not to come off as OMGUS but Andre's sudden read change on me is terribad. He was on those pages agreeing with my reads and now he is going back and trying to say I'm scum for probably being wrong on DGB + DotW on a reread. It also reeks of T3 counterwagon.

[Dwlee99]

It’s not OMGUS since you’re not voting me. You also quickly let go of your SR of my slot once I said I thought you were Town.

I stopped voting you because you stopped prod dodging every 2 days. Your day one was completely empty and I didn't like tonal parts of it. When you started actually doing content I was satisfied to move on and push someone we agreed on.

Not to come off as OMGUS but Andre's sudden read change on me is terribad. He was on those pages agreeing with my reads and now he is going back and trying to say I'm scum for probably being wrong on DGB + DotW on a reread. It also reeks of T3 counterwagon.

Andres was ok with a T3 wagon, and still appears to be, so why do you think he's shopping?

Shopping?
To answer what I think you're asking: he stopped voting T3 to vote me for bad reasons.

[Dwlee99]

Why though? Why wouldn't he support my anya push instead? Unless you think the team is anya T3 Andres, that makes more sense than shopping for a counter.

Anya's clearly not happening today and I still think she is town. I think Andre's posts look bad regardless of T3's alignment because he is trying to make a 1v1 here. If T3 is town he can try to push me on "well my arbitrary decision that there is one scum in these 2 players says Dwlee is scum now."

[Dwlee99]

Titus I think you're extremely wrong on your read of that claim.

[Dwlee99]

Titus I think you're extremely wrong on your read of that claim.

Why?

Do you think she is scum announcing voyeur??

[Dwlee99]

That's ridiculous.

[Dwlee99]

I don't want to derail the T3 wagon and I totally agree that Titus' take is ridiculous but I don't know if I agree that it is alignment indicative for Titus.

[Dwlee99]

If T3 is town he can try to push me on "well my arbitrary decision that there is one scum in these 2 players says Dwlee is scum now."

It’s not an arbitrary decision. It might look like that to you, but I usually express that of two slots that seem Scummy on the surface and are fighting each other, sometimes hard.

Have T3 and I fought?

[Dwlee99]

If T3 is town he can try to push me on "well my arbitrary decision that there is one scum in these 2 players says Dwlee is scum now."

It’s not an arbitrary decision. It might look like that to you, but I usually express that of two slots that seem Scummy on the surface and are fighting each other, sometimes hard.

Have T3 and I fought?

Fighting is perhaps the wrong word. Strongly accused each other of being Scum. How about that?

I don't think T3 ever called me scum

[Dwlee99]

I believe Anya's claim more than Titus's claim.
I cant remember if this game or not, but I think it was. There was mention about neibours having powers day 1.

I mentioned rolecop neighbors in a game I played once.

Andre, given that there was no "fight" between T3 and I, do you still think at least one of us is evil?

[Dwlee99]

It really is feeling like you're trying to force a scumread here. Why?

[Dwlee99]

I think that your pairings are dumb and I think that the way you talk to me doesn't feel like you actually scumread me here otherwise you wouldn't be phrasing things like you're trying to tell me you didn't like the color palette I chose on a presentation.

[Dwlee99]

And DW, the colors you chose are horrendous. Not going to lie. Gives me a bit of a headache.

[Dwlee99]

You completely flipped on how you were approaching me (and now seem to want to appease me) even though I’ve been posting just like I was before, though maybe more frequently.

When are you talking about this happening? When you stopped lurking or after your scumread of me?

[Dwlee99]

But calling my pairings “dumb” implies that you have a better handle of the game. And I’m sorry to say, but you have basically already given up the fact that you can also be horribly wrong. Otherwise, why backtrack so hard when another player hints at a mechanical result?

I'm not even claiming I have a great handle on the game and I'm not trying to offend either. I think the concept of "one of {Anya, Titus} has to be scum" is just wrong in a game like this. If there was some TvS interaction I could understand but you're essentially doing the scumread version of sloppy vote count analysis. ("Well, I think that this many scum are on this wagon sooo kill this person")

[Dwlee99]

Guess your thing was {Anya, T3} which makes even less sense honestly. I don't even think those slots have interacted so claiming there is definitely a scum in there doesn't feel based in anything.

@DW I’m still reading. It’s not the easiest game to read back to front. But I do think you’re Town if that helps.

UNVOTE:
Okay Andre you have my attention

If your read of me here was genuine, I think you would have pushed me here. Like if you had thought I was Scum trying to pocket you or that it was me trying to defuse tension between us, I think you express it or keep your vote on me. Instead, you tacitly agree to stop engaging.

I stopped pushing you because I found your posts good. My scumread on you before was basically PoE on lurkers

I'm still leaning towards scum with that claim though.

Why? I think it would be weird for scum to go no actions done -> no result. Voyeur is also a weird role for scum to have.

The way DotW is looking to shade Anya is so bizarre I would absolutely blow it up.

DotW claimed cop inno on dgb though.

DGB + DotW + Titus all just insisting they are a town block gives me the heeby jeebies.

In case people ever need to come back to this to solve the game, I can only confirm DGB and myself as town. Titus is just a read right now

I interpreted this an inno result @andre

Not to come off as OMGUS but Andre's sudden read change on me is terribad. He was on those pages agreeing with my reads and now he is going back and trying to say I'm scum for probably being wrong on DGB + DotW on a reread. It also reeks of T3 counterwagon.

And look at this progression here. You’re obviously going from engaging me and trying to help me develop a read to pushing me because my read of you changed. But why couldn’t my switch be genuine? You’re pairing ME with T3 when I was happy to wagon there and push them to the brink, why because I decided to jump on you? Unless Anya / T3 are both Scum AND my Scum Partners (a stretch yes?), why don’t I just push the CW to start?

If you read my posts to Titus I'm not pairing you with anyone. It isn't just that your read on me changed, it is that your read on me changed for terrible and what feels like forced reasons. You were given refutation of major parts of your reasoning and then just BS'd more.

But calling my pairings “dumb” implies that you have a better handle of the game. And I’m sorry to say, but you have basically already given up the fact that you can also be horribly wrong. Otherwise, why backtrack so hard when another player hints at a mechanical result?

I'm not even claiming I have a great handle on the game and I'm not trying to offend either. I think the concept of "one of {Anya, Titus} has to be scum" is just wrong in a game like this. If there was some TvS interaction I could understand but you're essentially doing the scumread version of sloppy vote count analysis. ("Well, I think that this many scum are on this wagon sooo kill this person")

I think you’re intentionally trying to discount my analysis here. I’m basically saying I think some of these arguments are either TvT or TVS. I SR some of you, so I’m thinking some of this is TvS. The phrasing might be different but that’s exactly what I mean. And what vote count analysis? I’m basing this entirely of the strength of the arguments you are making.

I was making analogy to VCA. Sure, some of them are probably TvS but which ones and why? You made it seem like you think all of the pairings you named have at least one scum in them, not that one of the pairings has one scum which is meaningless because of how mathematically certain it is correct.

[Dwlee99]

That's ridiculous.

shes scum dude

Like c’mon. This isn’t what you would typically expect from Partners. peta aggressively pushed Nero, and is doing the same here to Titus. DW you are aligning yourself hard with peta and to a lesser extent Anya, and pushing here. Are you going to argue all of you are Town? I find that really hard to believe.

Please outline exactly which groupings you think have scum in them. I thought you were saying that you had pairings with scum in them, not groupings, which is why I thought they were bad.

[Dwlee99]

A lot of my read of the situation with Anya and SSBM was the premise that I thought they were masons btw. If that's not the case then my "I trust Anya to read Kyo" comment kinda goes out the drain and I don't have much of an opinion on Kyo anymore.

[Dwlee99]

Omg really? I wouldn't have guessed that based on the play. DotW should have went with me saying he was a cop ftr

[Dwlee99]

Omg really? I wouldn't have guessed that based on the play. DotW should have went with me saying he was a cop ftr

Look at his statements. He can confirm DGB as inno but not a cop inno.

It was sarcasm

[Dwlee99]

I also want to revisit that quote to just say Titus knows me and my scum game isn't weak like she implies there.

[Dwlee99]

I also want to revisit that quote to just say Titus knows me and my scum game isn't weak like she implies there.

Where did I imply your scumgame is weak? I know the foundations of your scumgame and that if adequately set up, you can win with the best of them.

You said I was "going to rely on a claim to get through the strong playerlist."

[Dwlee99]

That's not saying you're weak at all. It just sounded like a strategy you could use. That's all. I believe that's how you won our first scumgame together.

Maybe it came off the wrong way then. My claim that game was actually the thing that almost got me caught