Large Normal 241: Random Pictures and Other Stuff | Endgame

[VP Baltar]

i have townpings on ydrasse and skitter

Skitter stan calls skitter town. Convenient!

VOTE: scamper

[VP Baltar]

scamper a little town

scamper can have a little townread, as a treat

Feel like you're trying too hard to be cute this game....

[VP Baltar]

scamper a little town

scamper can have a little townread, as a treat

Feel like you're trying too hard to be cute this game....

i don't have to try :>

True true. Tell your PT you won't be going deep game here.

[VP Baltar]

Baltar gimme your Datisi read b4 he wakes up

Scum fuck obv. Would D1 yeet with no remorse.

[VP Baltar]

Stats say that's the optimal play tbh

[VP Baltar]

did you roll scum with Datisi -.-

Vote him and find out

[VP Baltar]

i am eagerly awaiting to hear more abt gl's scamper vote on the morrow

What about my scamper vote?

[VP Baltar]

What are you and Ari talking about in the scum PT?

Who is the you in this?

[VP Baltar]

is VP Beltar normally this laid back.
Something feels off about him

What is this supposed to mean?

[VP Baltar]

Making my semi-yearly mafia appearance with a playerlist I'm pretty excited about.

While its great to hear from you it would have been much better if you talked about the first 8 pages.

You going to be this annoying all game or just play mafia?

[VP Baltar]

yet there's no rvs vote on me that you do like every game

curious

I'm ignoring you so ari can have you all to herself. Leave me alone.

[VP Baltar]

y do u like me?

Vibes.

What vibes?

[VP Baltar]

I've decided Datisi is scum but we should let him live because he's cool

Datisi I'm putting you in the penalty box, you're gonna need to start wowing me with some better reads to get out

GL is top town read.

[VP Baltar]

I've decided Datisi is scum but we should let him live because he's cool

Datisi I'm putting you in the penalty box, you're gonna need to start wowing me with some better reads to get out

oh good shit guiltylion is town, i can stop completely shitposting now

Hmm

[VP Baltar]

ari can maybe be town if she saw something that i also saw. ok no point in being vague when i didn't out too many reads, if she noticed that baltar not voting me is weird, then yeah +town

Red flag.

You think I'm obligated to vote you as my rvs?

[VP Baltar]

Why do you ask? I think there's enough content here that you don't have to pick at vibe reads

Seemed like a read not based in reality.

What should I be picking at?

[VP Baltar]

dats, why didn't you withhold your ari read before she can explain what her baltar read was so you can read her better

well for one, she can still explain it. for two, i think scum-her is capable of faking that read. so i don't think it's too alignment-indicative either way.

Why bring it up if it's NAI?

[VP Baltar]

Why do you ask? I think there's enough content here that you don't have to pick at vibe reads

Seemed like a read not based in reality.

What should I be picking at?

What does "a read not based in reality" actually mean

It means it seems like you made it up and now you are covering poo with ~vibes~

[VP Baltar]

you had a card you can play and didn't

halfway through writing that post, i realized that ari has enough experience with both of us in the same game, she would've been able to fabricate the reasoning. but my gut still said it's slightly townie and i wanted to put it out there.

Is this post hoc reasoning?

(I said I was going to leave you for ari, and now I've made myself a liar. Damn you, Datisi!)

[VP Baltar]

This feels like a wildly out-of-nowhere take?? Like even if you think Ausuka's wrong I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable that her wrong read would be based on vibes

Mostly because Nero hadn't done anything out of normal range there, fmpov, so I wanted to press a little bit and see if she had any deeper reasoning for making a town read there. She did not.

I think pushing on flimsy reads early on in a game can be a fruitful way to catch scum before they find their footing.

[VP Baltar]

So I'm alone in thinking FB could be scum here?

Your whole line of reasoning is that FB scum would claim scum as a rouse, correct?

[VP Baltar]

re scamper tr @ guiltylion

there was a post (on mobile rn hard to pull) that i liked because it resonated thoughts but it came after me and fire had a moment on something similar so it’s only a little tr

When you get on a 'puter, can you cite this for me? Ty

[VP Baltar]

Ignored sadge

Huh?

[VP Baltar]

yall he asked whats new w me but i thought he asked how i was help me im so embaressed

How r u tho?

[VP Baltar]

scamper u stink

Marci town

[VP Baltar]

Read 2 pages and fireisredsir can maybe be town, okay bye for awhile

uhm

Uh oh I agree with scamper

[VP Baltar]

scamper u stink

Marci town

do tell

U stink. Pretty obv.

[VP Baltar]

firebringer and xofelf trading compliments on page 9 maybe not s/s?

Kind of like this thought. Can you tell me more why you think that's unlikely from them specifically?

[VP Baltar]

Idk where you're coming from with the second question

Most of that other stuff probably came after I posted. I'm in a perpetual state of catch up in larges on D1 many times.

But I asked you because it seemed like you thought I specifically should be going after other stuff, which is like ... why?

[VP Baltar]

This feels like a wildly out-of-nowhere take?? Like even if you think Ausuka's wrong I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable that her wrong read would be based on vibes

Mostly because Nero hadn't done anything out of normal range there, fmpov, so I wanted to press a little bit and see if she had any deeper reasoning for making a town read there. She did not.

I think pushing on flimsy reads early on in a game can be a fruitful way to catch scum before they find their footing.

ari can maybe be town if she saw something that i also saw. ok no point in being vague when i didn't out too many reads, if she noticed that baltar not voting me is weird, then yeah +town

Red flag.

You think I'm obligated to vote you as my rvs?

Is this really a 'red flag' to you

Yes actually. I don't know if I believe datisi actually thought this interaction with ari through that much or is just coming up with reasoning after the fact that seems reasonable to HEM's questioning.

You buy datisi's response wholesale?

[VP Baltar]

Not sure why that first post is quoted. Must have bumped a button on my phone.

[VP Baltar]

Lol ok. So how is it 'made up' exactly

Spoiler: guiltylion posts

what's up gamers!

VOTE: marcistar

why aren't you voting?

VOTE: scamper

oh this is spicy, i'd like to hear more

also i'm not getting great vibes from nero still

Why is it spicy?

Do you think scamper's ISO is especially townie or something?

his first few posts are fluff, I don't like the phrasing of 108 it doesn't actually give me any idea why scamper thinks HEM is scum while being an easy thing to say to justify your vote, 110 is offensively non-offensive. 114 also gave me a feel of trying to stir shit around Nero without actually directly getting involved.

@Ydrasse

what do you see as town here?

addendum I forgot to add,

specifically I really dislike the trailing "..." on 114, that's what gives me the shit stirring vibe. like if you think Nero being wrong in 113 means something, say that, if you don't, what's the point of the post

the questions about why dont feel like theyre aimed at actually sorting

what makes you say they're not aimed at sorting?

103 directly lead to 105 which feels like useful content from fire

Why do you think she should be?

cause that's what gets the game out of a no-information state, voting

also

you should know by now Gamma that I constantly hound people to vote their scumreads?

we just went over this in Eurybia's curse, being in a state of Not Voting is literally the least useful thing you can do

in the game.

I've decided Datisi is scum but we should let him live because he's cool

Datisi I'm putting you in the penalty box

, you're gonna need to start wowing me with some better reads to get out

Bolded are places where I was surprised at GuiltyLion feeling a little firey, a little overly negative, something off about the vibe.
I dunno maybe I'm inserting a tone that isn't there but I just got negative vibes from a lot of these posts? Like a puppy trying to assert dominance. Whereas I feel like from InnocentLion I'm used to something a bit more like an older dog slowly and professor-ishly catching scum.

No offense @GL I'm just using the best silly metaphor I can think of

I actually liked GL so far? Why can't they be serious? Seemed like trying to work an angle and see where it goes, even if it's early.

[VP Baltar]

Lol worlds fastest fingers over here. Can you tell I haven't played mafia on my phone in a min?

[VP Baltar]

"It means it seems like you made it up and now you are covering poo with ~vibes~" is how you're planning to catch scum!Ausuka?

Like 399 is a good reason for pushing Ausuka's Nero read but also not sure it matches with you just kinda shading Ausuka for having a viberead. You can be a townlean for 396 though, so maybe I'll just drop this

I had like 9 pages to catch up on. Don't expect war and peace just yet

[VP Baltar]

This feels like a wildly out-of-nowhere take?? Like even if you think Ausuka's wrong I'm not sure why it's so unbelievable that her wrong read would be based on vibes

Mostly because Nero hadn't done anything out of normal range there, fmpov, so I wanted to press a little bit and see if she had any deeper reasoning for making a town read there. She did not.

I think pushing on flimsy reads early on in a game can be a fruitful way to catch scum before they find their footing.

And you think town don't have these 'flimsy' reads in the early game or

Like if that's the logic we're going on you are looking very very bad right now

Sure, town can be flimsy.

But they probably have a complete thought process at least. I still don't understand your Nero town ping.

[VP Baltar]

townread on Relly officially RESCINDED

Ignored sadge

Huh?

Did u answer me and i didn’t see

No, I just have no clue what this means. Thought maybe you were rescinding your question

[VP Baltar]

UNVOTE:
VOTE: ausuka

[VP Baltar]

ari can maybe be town if she saw something that i also saw. ok no point in being vague when i didn't out too many reads, if she noticed that baltar not voting me is weird, then yeah +town

Red flag.

You think I'm obligated to vote you as my rvs?

i feel like the other reasons so far to suspect datisi feel a bit... better than this

why is this a red flag? datisi feeling entitled to an rvs vote?

I guess I kind of did answer this actually. I think datisi is kind of making up reasons after the fact around his ari play, and part of that is this assumption that I MUST rvs vote dats because I do frequently.

Datisi is well aware that I don't play the opening of games the same all the time. I take different approaches based on my mood and what I think will be interesting. It's just a contrived thought process to me.

[VP Baltar]

Like is there any reason you seem to think it's so improbable that I have an early game gutread

How many games do you have with nero?

[VP Baltar]

But like I don't have an especially meta based read on Nero, maybe the type of player he is factors in slightly but I don't see where you're coming from by asking about this

Trying to understand your gut read. wtf

I'm not going to begrudge you having a gut read, but it struck me as a weird one to take when I saw nothing special in his play. It's good to hear you have a decent number of games at least. People say gut all the time, but there is often an actual thought there if you drill down far enough. Hell, even when I have gut reads, if I question myself enough and talk through it, I can usually get to what is pinging for me specifically.

I need to do some work now (and still somehow not caught up, agh), but I'll think about this some more and probs reread your town ping with the context of your past experiences.

[VP Baltar]

is it just me or ausuka and vpb has this

t en s i o n

A real will they, won't they vibe

firebringer and xofelf trading compliments on page 9 maybe not s/s?

Kind of like this thought. Can you tell me more why you think that's unlikely from them specifically?

Feels unlikely anyone would fake it as scum theater, and also if they shared a scum thread I kind of think that's where they would have done this "oh hey it's you, nice!"

I guess there's a small chance they re-enacted their scum thread convo in the main thread, but overall it just feels natural. And I doubt as scum they would plan this type of casual reconnection as their way of appearing unaligned

Oh so it's more general and not about then specifically?

[VP Baltar]

Ausuka is an angel, I am not sure VPB is worthy tbh

I am garbage for sure.

For instance, I said I would work, but I am not

[VP Baltar]

in this world if you’re town and datisi isn’t right do you think he picks at the bare minimum thing like that to start engaging with you or about you since it’s pretty weak?

i kiiiind of think that it’s a little towny to feel entitled to xyz happening and harder for a wolf to fake? or not hard but the option isn’t maybe the first to mind...?

does that make sense lol

it kind of makes sense.

I always feel like datisi and I have like seven levels of gambits going on. Before this game started, I intentionally thought to myself "should I mess with datisi in RVS and see his response." I wouldn't say that I was consciously doing that here, but it did strike me as weird for him to bring that up in his reasoning around ari.

I don't really agree that this would be hard for datisi!wolf to fake, as you admit, but I think it comes to mind for me because we almost always have to mix it up every game at some point early. So maybe I'm overthinking it, but still struck me as odd.

[VP Baltar]

VPB is your scamper vote serious

eh, I wouldn't say it was super serious. I liked GuiltyLion's approach and felt like applying minor pressure. But I would put scamper in the null pile if I'm being intellectually honest.

[VP Baltar]

do you have any thoughts on other people's reasons to suspect me, currently?

I don't think the pressure on you is terrible. Your multi-step plan to reaction test ari that you then abandoned seems a bit made up and if you did, I'd rather you just admit that than insist it was REAL DEAL SCUMHUNTING.

IDK if I think you're scum here or not, but I don't hate people pressuring you.

So was it legit or are you bullshitting us a little bit here?

[VP Baltar]

why would it be post hoc if he explained it in the same post that he originally made the read in

IDK if I agree that's true. Yes, Datisi noted the baltar reasoning in the first ari town read, but it was only after HEM pressure that he explained this elaborate reactions testing play that was abandoned.

[VP Baltar]

you had a card you can play and didn't

halfway through writing that post, i realized that ari has enough experience with both of us in the same game, she would've been able to fabricate the reasoning. but my gut still said it's slightly townie and i wanted to put it out there.

This. Reaction testing probably is the most accurate verbiage, but you are saying you planned to town points ari if she saw what you saw in me, but then didn't actually wait to see it, but then town pointed anyway for something you abandoned because you assumed ari would have picked up on it anyway.

It just feels like contrived reasoning to justify your post after HEM pushed on you.

Am I misunderstanding something here?

[VP Baltar]

unfortunately in my experience with vp you can't really go off whether it feels like he's engaging genuinely or if his thoughts are real thoughts that a real person would think

p. sure I'm being called a bot.

reported.

[VP Baltar]

What do you know of my range? As far as I'm aware we've only played once and I was town there. So if you've only seen me play town how can you question Ausuka's town read on the basis of range when you don't know what it is? If you think I am playing differently than our game together why not say that?

I don't think you're playing differently than that other game though is what I'm saying.

I don't think you've done much of anything yet...which isn't that unusual for anyone at this point in a large. Hence why I found the town read weird.

[VP Baltar]

Right. Why?

I kind of liked it more as a read if it applied specifically to them.

Scum being friendly in thread doesn't seem that AI to me, but to each their own I guess.

[VP Baltar]

This. Reaction testing probably is the most accurate verbiage, but you are saying you planned to

EXTRA

town points ari if she saw what you saw in me, but then didn't actually wait to see it, but then town pointed anyway for something you abandoned because you assumed ari would have picked up on it anyway.

edited an important word in there that you seem to be missing.

my gut said ari is towny, that part wasn't going to change. at first, i thought her seeing exactly what i saw was going to be *extra* towny. then i changed my mind on that, but kept on my initial gutread anyway.

if your question is "why did you keep on the initial gutread anyway then", because my brain already registered it as slightly +town so why the fuck not.

hmm

[VP Baltar]

and ari is scum

oooo, hot take. Did you explain this read already and I missed it?

[VP Baltar]

lol, pedit. don't know why I try

[VP Baltar]

it doesn't feel like he's trying to pump up his posts with extra emotion or extra thoughts

is this a scumtisi quality? IDK if I recall him being more emotional as scum.

[VP Baltar]

Dats dear, I think if you just take the extra attention as a positive because all your friends here are thinking about you, maybe you will feel happier and loved. <3.

My relationship with Datisi is strictly rivalry

Have you ever had a RL rival? I have had two, despite my best efforts to have 0, and wow is it EXHAUSTING

Read this first as "I used to have 2, and now I have zero" and was like, damn, relly will effing murder you, no joke

[VP Baltar]

I don't like VP being on top of me or anywhere near green territory.

Sounds like a rival who is losing. U sad

[VP Baltar]

I'm not sure I'm scum reading marci. Seems like alot of meta complaints mostly? Someone correct me if that's not right

[VP Baltar]

(personally im still on the fence re: dats, but thats less important right now)

scamper, is this "null" or "conflicting feelings"? if it's the latter, can you elaborate?

idk, more null. im more waiting to see what reads u have rather than going off some silly vibe thing about whether u seem happy or unhappy or anxious or w/e

Datisi posted some reads. What did you think of those?

[VP Baltar]

even though I never really felt like he was engaging with my explanation properly?

Pretty hard disagree. I ask questions because I'm absolutely engaging with your explanation. You may not like the questions I ask, but if I'm asking you then I'm trying to understand where you are coming from.

[VP Baltar]

I kinda disliked this post

scamper a little town

scamper can have a little townread, as a treat

Feel like you're trying too hard to be cute this game....

I wouldn't say I'm an expert Fire reader or anything but this feels pretty normal b/c I think she does make lil' cutesy jokey posts like this and I felt like it was more of a nitpick than hunting.

Making my semi-yearly mafia appearance with a playerlist I'm pretty excited about.

While its great to hear from you it would have been much better if you talked about the first 8 pages.

You going to be this annoying all game or just play mafia?

i know I already commented on this but me calling out a contentless void is a perfectly reasonable thing to do and I think it makes 0 sense that town him is up in arms about it.

was also nodding along with idea that he's being nitpicky about Ausukas town read of me.

Feel like the fire being cute thing has been talked about already, but I'd say you're wrong here. Fire is v. nice of course, but is also serious about mafia. Early on, they were doing more flirty cutey stuff than hunting, which was atypical. I think fire has gotten more serious since then, so it's a moot point now, but was accurate as of that post.

[VP Baltar]

The best way I can describe it is you didn't talk about my read, you talked around my read in a way that felt like pushing me for the sake of it.

Probably not wrong that some is pushing for the sake...it's kind of what I do until I feel strongly about a scum read.

But I don't think I'm talking around your read either. Or I don't quite understand what you mean. What did I not ask you that you think I should have ?

[VP Baltar]

we have to get rip of people who treat mafia sites like dating websites on principle. no more flirting.

Hard town read

[VP Baltar]

I thought Fire's town read on scamper in 147 was serious but just said in a humorous way.

Maybe. If I could pull off cutesy, I'd do that exact thing to pocket people D1. I think that's what I don't like about it. It's also just a weaker approach than I'm used to from fire. Especially in a stacked playerlist. I think fire cares about being well regarded for quality of play, and that is meeeeh

[VP Baltar]

Like in our last game she got all pissy that I was scum reading her and here I am scumreading her and I wasn't getting that.

Link?

[VP Baltar]

Holy shit there are people in this game who haven't posted

[VP Baltar]

Like in our last game she got all pissy that I was scum reading her and here I am scumreading her and I wasn't getting that.

Link?

you were in that game

I understand ari's approach then.

[VP Baltar]

Ok sooooooooo joining this *may* have been a mistake ...
I might be able to catch up tonight but i'm not sure

Don't worry about catching up. Not much has happened

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: firebringer

[VP Baltar]

kinda interested in what @baltar saw there, though

Kind of started when FB said I was being laid back or whatever, which I thought was weird and then never followed up on.

The saying you're off for interacting when they asked for interacting, followed by the skitter vote...

It all kind of adds up to like poking at things without conviction of a viewpoint to me. I could see skitter vote as a joke, but still don't feel like FB is pushing in a direction.

[VP Baltar]

nero is faking a grudge within your scum range

general question as well for those who are familiar with Nero

I would think so.

[VP Baltar]

I am a child of divorce and I really just want Ausuka and marci to be happy and each of them to compete buying me the best Christmas presents.

[VP Baltar]

It seemed like scum reads to me in thread context.

[VP Baltar]

Shitfights is how we make memories

[VP Baltar]

I've decided Datisi is scum but we should let him live because he's cool

Datisi I'm putting you in the penalty box, you're gonna need to start wowing me with some better reads to get out

GL is top town read.

what do you think of Irrellephant, VPB

P cool dude. Would townbin

[VP Baltar]

xofelf town

You and HEM both said this. What is compelling a TR there?

[VP Baltar]

GL, you wanna vote FB?

[VP Baltar]

I think datisi is kind of making up reasons after the fact around his ari play,

specifically I want to ask about this

do you think 308 is fake? that post felt the most likely to be genuine to me. I don't know if I could buy that scum!Tisi invented this sequence of events on the fly, he was rapidposting around then

I guess our difference is that I think datisi is very good at faking interactions. I'm not certain if that post is real or not, and I get why you'd consider it so, but I also think datisi cares a lot about winning as scum, even if he probs hates playing that alignment given his current RNG luck

[VP Baltar]

Actually stronger town on fireisred. As scum, they would probably put up more of an act around being suspicious of me

Why you specifically?

[VP Baltar]

My scumreads: Skitter30 and Ydrasse

You dislike either enough to vote? (Ignore if you have already and I'm not to that point in my catch up)

[VP Baltar]

im kind of surprised i get more heat for voting skitter than claiming scum a dozen or so times.
I am gonna have to write this down for future reference.

Why are you seemingly not following up on any of the pushes you made?

[VP Baltar]

Baltar is one of the weaker suspects of that list, but the early ?suspicion? of datisi and description of whatever Datisi's post was as a reaction test, followed by a lack of much evident effort to clarify his read of Datisi since, feels a bit strange. I could imagine that Baltar as scum would prefer to avoid just easily townreading a town-Datisi, but here he almost seems to be... avoiding the topic.

How strong would you say your town read of datisi is right now?

[VP Baltar]

i dont have anything in specific i want to talk about rn which feels awkward

This happen to you as town sometimes? Any examples come to mind?

[VP Baltar]

Baltar is one of the weaker suspects of that list, but the early ?suspicion? of datisi and description of whatever Datisi's post was as a reaction test, followed by a lack of much evident effort to clarify his read of Datisi since, feels a bit strange. I could imagine that Baltar as scum would prefer to avoid just easily townreading a town-Datisi, but here he almost seems to be... avoiding the topic.

How strong would you say your town read of datisi is right now?

uhhh.... not as strong as I'm pretending it is

Ok. I can get with that.

[VP Baltar]

i feel like some of the townreads being thrown around right now are a little too free,

Which reads bug you?

[VP Baltar]

kinda interested in what @baltar saw there, though

Kind of started when FB said I was being laid back or whatever, which I thought was weird and then never followed up on.

The saying you're off for interacting when they asked for interacting, followed by the skitter vote...

It all kind of adds up to like poking at things without conviction of a viewpoint to me. I could see skitter vote as a joke, but still don't feel like FB is pushing in a direction.

@skitter

[VP Baltar]

Grant the birthday ydra's wish and vote FB

[VP Baltar]

@vpb again i dont really know if his vote on me is indicative of 'lack of viewpoint/conviction'
(Or at least, is unusual or scum-indicative for him ...)

It's more than the vote on you. That was just an example. There doesn't seem to be much conviction from FB on anything.

[VP Baltar]

@vpb again i dont really know if his vote on me is indicative of 'lack of viewpoint/conviction'
(Or at least, is unusual or scum-indicative for him ...)

It's more than the vote on you. That was just an example. There doesn't seem to be much conviction from FB on anything.

do you have conviction on anything right now

Wtf are you talking about? I'm voting and pursuing plenty of threads. You think I have no conviction, or you just pointlessly shading?

[VP Baltar]

what should he have conviction on atp?

Anything? We are 42 pages in here. Time to start moving the game in a semi serious direction.

[VP Baltar]

what should he have conviction on atp?

Anything? We are 42 pages in here. Time to start moving the game in a semi serious direction.

is there anything specific you expected to see from Town!FB that you're not seeing or is this just a generalized "he has no takes" thing?

I didn't say FB has no takes, though they are few and far between. It's more of the fact their takes don't go anywhere. I don't have a strong FB meta, but I don't take anyone this game as a complete slouch.

I get the working a lot thing. I have put in 8 hours Sunday, 14 Monday, and 12 yesterday at work. It sucks and makes it hard to stay up on everything in a mafia game or pursue threads as deeply as you may like. That being said, I do still think it's possible to semi-read along and have some kind of viewpoint.

You think this is typical town!FB behavior?

[VP Baltar]

that came out slightly wrong >.>

do you have any reads you feel decently strong about at this point? the only one off the top of my head i can think of is warmpupper, but i don't know how much of that read is a scumread and how much is just a ping and pressure

Apologies. I read your tone incorrectly then.

I don't feel wild about anything yet unfortunately. Feels like a lot of surface level play so far and not a lot of pressure happening on people. There are a lot of good players just kind of staring at each other, and the shit fight maybe chilled some folks from being as involved as they might be.

I'd like to see some less active folks talk more today, and there were only 2 pages overnight, so maybe is more feasible.

I don't love scamper just kind saying "goodbye world!" but that could just be a playstyle thing that annoys me.

(Lol, getting the sense I'm in a bad mood from lack of sleep this week. Whoops)

Pedit - also don't love scamper's elephant vote, so there's that

[VP Baltar]

idk i think its a spicy take

Spicy isn't the same as good unless we are talking about burritos

[VP Baltar]

Pedit - also don't love scamper's elephant vote, so there's that

y not?

It's a naked voted on a very townie looking player. Outside being edgy, what are you hoping to achieve here?

[VP Baltar]

idk i think its a spicy take

Spicy isn't the same as good unless we are talking about burritos

why would scum come out with such a spicy take

Because people say "spicy take" and give town points. Easy to say pointless things as scum. You don't have to believe any of it!

Related question, what are your feelings on the elephant in the room?

[VP Baltar]

i feel like some of the townreads being thrown around right now are a little too free,

Which reads bug you?

This post is bad, scamper says in the next sentence that he doesn't feel like elaborating, so this makes me feel like you're rushing to post questions/content instead of reading closely

Imagine me reading every word closely in a game. lol

[VP Baltar]

RIP I was about to say we should start a counterwagon for the fb wagon and then when it's me

There isn't a wagon on you though?

[VP Baltar]

Pedit - also don't love scamper's elephant vote, so there's that

y not?

It's a naked voted on a very townie looking player. Outside being edgy, what are you hoping to achieve here?

why is irrelephant very townie?

do you think my play here as scum is being contrarian for no reason? i have about a dozen better ways to get townread

Elephant is asking consistent questions and pushing datisi reasonably seriously, which is probably unlikely to come from scum early game.

I think when you're scum with datisi, it's easier to just say townbin early and not risk his wrath.

I also don't get agenda vibes from elephant, like at all.

Why is he scummy?

[VP Baltar]

Elephant is asking consistent questions and pushing datisi reasonably seriously, which is probably unlikely to come from scum early game.

do you think he's pushing me for reasons that are actually any good

Eh, I they are OK, not great. I think he's right that you're reasonably flat so fat this game, but I think that could be RL related and I dont want to yeet you rn.

I do agree with his "if you worry about dats, you should push there" because I've fallen victim to the opposite of that.

Can I ask why you get annoyed with people pushing you? You seem kind of more frustrated than i might expect. It's to be expected as a good player to some degree isn't it?

Hell, I think I'm just OK, and I get wagoned in like literally every game I'm in.

[VP Baltar]

if i don't see at least one ari/baltar shitfight this game, i want my money back

I was hoping we could tag team Nero and make this a truly memorable experience for everyone. Maybe Mathblade can replace juice

[VP Baltar]

I was hoping we could tag team Nero and make this a truly memorable experience for everyone. Maybe Mathblade can replace juice

Why do you want to push town? What's your read on me?

Gut thinks Datsi is town but I'm not overly

Eh, I think maybe town for you, which is why I'm avoiding interacting mostly.

[VP Baltar]

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

[VP Baltar]

yeah, sure

Are you asking me to yell at you?

[VP Baltar]

VPB where are you on this game

What an incredibly vague question.

I am voting FB. You should too or push a more serious alternative.

There's a lot of faffing going on this game and I'm kinda bored

[VP Baltar]

yeah, sure

Are you asking me to yell at you?

If you had felt like I was scum then I'd expect you to. Claiming that you are avoiding me b/c you think I am town sorta makes me wonder if you are avoiding me to not get into a shit fight.

If I was scum, I'd definitely get in a shit fight with you because it is easy content and it is extremely easy to provoke you.

[VP Baltar]

And even the game you referenced earlier of me being so town, I am a million percent sure I wasn't off to the races in 48 hours. Because I don't have a scum read or person I want to dig in on to vote. Am i not allowed to joke vote

Mmm I just started skimming your ISO in Holiday Dance and you were more proactive about engaging with people and expressing reads in the first 48 hours, it does feel starkly different to me actually!! Different set up mechanically so can't compare your voting behavior but yah, your vibe is off here, maybe that's a function of your busy work week but it's still concerning.

Also re:VPB, why not vote him then? I'd join that wagon if it got going

Are you saying FB should vote me or I should vote FB?

[VP Baltar]

Also re:VPB, why not vote him then? I'd join that wagon if it got going

assuming that this is about me, why do you need him to vote me first?

Are you saying FB should vote me or I should vote FB?

also, did you think I was unaware of the fact that you're already voting FB? because this is a nonsensical question otherwise

Seems like a ridiculous thing to say in either circumstance, so all i can do is ask you to clarify. Why do you need someone else to vote me first before you vote?

[VP Baltar]

sure but last time you went up against me you got mislimmed. Even if you want to say that the reason you got wrecked gas nothing/very little to do with me the idea that a scum you would sit back and be less confrontational than normal makes some sense.

Not really? Shit fighting with you is super easy and if I was scum I could even do it and then play it off as a repeat of that game. That'd be like level 1 scumplay.

As opposed to town me finding that very unhelpful for the game state and doing my best to not derail into unproductive areas. If I find you scummy, you'll be the first to know.

[VP Baltar]

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

[VP Baltar]

Seems like a ridiculous thing to say in either circumstance, so all i can do is ask you to clarify. Why do you need someone else to vote me first before you vote?

mmm, "ridiculous" is quite a loaded word there. Why do you think it's ridiculous?

I don't think leaving the leading wagon to jump on a vanity wagon is good play, but if there was momentum to the point where your wagon would counter and/or eclipse Fire I would then think about switching.

Because either you didn't see my vote or you're asking for cover to vote. It's silly either way.

If you think I scum, it's not vanity to vote me. It isn't like we are under deadline pressure.

[VP Baltar]

Seems like a ridiculous thing to say in either circumstance, so all i can do is ask you to clarify. Why do you need someone else to vote me first before you vote?

you also didn't answer my question. Did you think I was unaware that you were voting FB?

yes, seemed possible you missed the vote since your post was not entirely clear to me who you were addressing. Sorry you find that insulting, but it's a result of you saying something silly regardless.

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

I wasn't questioning your vote

I was questioning this comment:

@vpb again i dont really know if his vote on me is indicative of 'lack of viewpoint/conviction'
(Or at least, is unusual or scum-indicative for him ...)

It's more than the vote on you. That was just an example. There doesn't seem to be much conviction from FB on anything.

like I think it's questionable to shade someone for not having conviction on anything because I don't feel like I have a lot of conviction on anything so far either because it's p early so I was wondering if you were making a general remark or if there was some observation you expected Town!FB to have made that he hasn't done yet.

even in the game that guiltylion cited - FB is more townie but his tone is mostly joking and he doesn't really show "conviction" per se in anything very early - he shows it later down the line after he's gotten more time in the game.

I don't really think of FB as someone who immediately has high conviction reads/thoughts right away - he's more of a casual throw random things around type of player.

Ok, so it was a soft defense, as I stated.

[VP Baltar]

Do you really think that makes sense??

Do you think it makes sense to say 'you vote first and I'll join you'?

Like if your whole deal is getting numerous votes on a wagon, then the logical play is to vote first and directly ask people to join. It's backwards to be like " well let's count the votes first to make sure we have enough before we do this for real 48 hours into D1".

You're acting like I'm a dumb shit here, but you're not making any sense about how you're pursuing wagons. If you scum read me, then vote and stop being a coward about it.

Make a case even. But don't tell me it really makes sense to go to someone you maybe scum read and then seek a coalition of 2 before voting.

Pedit - you're right. I'm so dumb. Good point.

[VP Baltar]

VP, when did you start thinkng that I was town?

Part of it is cumulative vibes from you being an asshat, which is consistent with my town experience with you obv. (Though certainly fakeable)

For example, your fight with ari seemed absolutely unnecessary.

I also remember feeling better about you when you said something about HEM's list being kind of wishy washy, because that was my same gut reaction when I read it.

[VP Baltar]

FB, what do you think of ari's meta defense of you?

wut?
Pretty sure Ari is doing to opposite of defending FB

VP Balter

, you gonna explain what made you think this?

Ari is definitely soft defending FB by questioning my vote there. How would you describe it?

Questioning a vote is not defending.

Did you read ari's post? It was definitely a defense.

More importantly, what is the point of this semantics argument though?

[VP Baltar]

Not voting (7): Juice, marcistar, xofelf, Dunnstral, Eiralox, DeasVail

*Bernie meme something something voting pwease

[VP Baltar]

namely his bad questions

I don't recall you being so condescending when we've played together before.

I also take issue with your Nero point because...oh boy. I'll let FB answer your question first though.

[VP Baltar]

I would feel better if you had actually called out HEM in thread instead of retroactively agreeing with me. Or did you call it out, I just don't really remember you doing it.

I didn't call it out at the time because I'm skimming along while I work and just repeating stuff other people have said isn't super useful.

As far as the attitude stuff, I can be a prickly person too! It's definitely not all on you. As much as I joke, I do want to avoid toxic fights if possible because it's probably good to be a grown up. Sometimes I think you intentionally make insults, but I think it's also maybe just your playstyle to try and get reax.


@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

[VP Baltar]

@ HEM - for me it's just like, why even put out a list if like 75% is just saying "poe". I'd probably just say "I'm TRing this person. Or so and so is scummy"

It looks like busy work to post a full list that is just meh.

are you even reading my posts

Sure.

[VP Baltar]

my posts are nothing but that

I'm only talking about your list specifically. Seemed useless, so why even post it? That's what I didn't care for. Think it was a good call out by Nero at the time.

[VP Baltar]

Bruh. I read the fooking post. It wasn't Pride & Predjudice.

Why did you feel compelled to post a list that had so many people in a poe instead of just keeping it to yourself and saying something more when you had an actual viewpoint?

[VP Baltar]

here's my early game list

Ausuka - likely town
scamper - poe
Juice - waiting for arrival
Datisi - poe
humaneatingmonkey - town ofc
Aristeia - poe
Firebringer - pending to mid-game
Gamma Emerald - pending read on me
Nero Cain - poe
Eiralox - poe
fireisredsir - probably town
GuiltyLion - poe
VP Baltar - poe
marcistar - probably town
xofelf - likely town
skitter30 - likely town
Irrelephant11 - likely town
ydrasse - pending read on early game
Dunnstral - waiting
DeasVail - pending question on datisi townread

I count 5 reads out of 19 players. Zero scum, or anything generally that doesn't have the flavor of lukewarm milk. It's a pointless list to make other than it looks like effort. I know you're better than that.

[VP Baltar]

why should i make a list later?

Because it might contain useful information later about your viewpoint later.


In other news, I agree with scamper that the Erialox wagon seems Zzzzzz.

Vote FB.

[VP Baltar]

Because it might contain useful information later about your viewpoint

later

.

Maybe I am a bot

[VP Baltar]

I probably didn't have better reads. I would have just said that.

[VP Baltar]

I probably didn't have better reads. I would have just said that.

can u give me some reads so i can copy them

FB scum. Scamper maybe scum (but I should actually read this elephant case). Ausuka maybe scum. Probably one in the super lurk squad or a deep wolf, you can pick your favorite there.

Game solve, lock it in.

[VP Baltar]

do u scumread me for reasons other than scumreading irrelephant?

I haven't had a chance to iso you to articulate it to myself, but I haven't felt interested in much you've posted this game, and I can usually find something. I do think you're pushback on the Eira wagon was good though, so maybe I just need to spend more time directly involved with you.

But yeah, you're kinda wallpaper to me at this point, and that's not great since you've been posting somewhat regularly for dozens of pages.

[VP Baltar]

*your

[VP Baltar]

sounds like a u problem and not a me problem. i have been deliberately a bit limited in my involvement but i think i should be readable as town anyway

What have you done that only comes from town you?

[VP Baltar]

what do you think you want to do with the wagon now that Eiralox replaced out? part of me finds that extra suspicious and wants to double down on it, but at the same time it feels like it might start now contributing to a stale gamestate and I don't think I wanna join the Irrelephant one

have you considered starting a new wagon

lol

I'm pages behind, but glad this is the first question I see checking in.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: eiralox
idrg what this wagon is about but I'll give it a try

It looks like they are being replaced, yeah? Why vote them?

[VP Baltar]

I'm pages behind, but glad this is the first question I see checking in.

fight me

You better check if someone has your back first lol

Pedit - scum don't even get my name right. Truly sad

[VP Baltar]

baltar i asked you somewhere before but i am impatient and i see you're on now so why ausuka scum

It started with that weird ass town read on Nero. I also think her engagement with me has been reasonably bad faith, and she is pretty comfortably in my PoE.

I don't like it when people poke around me without making a serious push. It is something I see scum do a lot because I'm a messy rat human, and direct conflict with me is unpleasant, but I'm easy to shade because of aforementioned rat humanness.

[VP Baltar]

Hi froggy and Danny!

[VP Baltar]

yeah that was what stood out to me

he chose to scumread frogster with the most level 0 read you can read frogster's opening post

Pretty sure I scum read frogster for something similar the first time I played with them. I'm so out of the loop right now, but frogster is an acquired taste that can result in strong negative reactions at first, imo.

[VP Baltar]

with the deadline being refrozen each time we need a replacement, this is going to be like a 200 page d1

I believe in us.

@HEM - froggy is serious about the test in my experience. I haven't read Danny's scumread over it (I probably don't agree), but I'm just saying that I think it's possible for people to get tilted at it. It's likely NAI for both froggy and dann

[VP Baltar]

Actually, I should probably check I'm not misremembering and faked a negative read to frog's test as scum. Lol.

I just remember arguing with frog about it and them being town

[VP Baltar]

I think I have talked my boss into only making me work a half day today since my week has been crazy. I should be able to do some kind of catchup this afternoon, at least from when the new folks replaced in.

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, who should I vote before I catch up?

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: conman

[VP Baltar]

willing to bet top 5 posters has 0-1 scum

Wouldn't any random distribution of 5 players contain 0-1 scum?

[VP Baltar]

willing to bet top 5 posters has 0-1 scum

Wouldn't any random distribution of 5 players contain 0-1 scum?

I just said I'm not into statistics but I think ur wrong

I'm not either, but in a 20p game, there are probably like 4 scum. So seems like that's accurate.

I guess what I'm saying is that I think what you posted looks like you're saying something, but in reality you're not saying much at all.

Maybe some math person will tell me I'm dumb, but that's my gut reaction.

[VP Baltar]

Realizing I only have an hour or so to mafia because I need to make a dish for a dinner party tonight, so I'm going to start my catch up ISOing the leading wagons instead of going back like 25 pages or wherever I fell off paying attention. I'll start with conman.

Conman:

Opening serious vote on Datisi is kind of whatever. Not wowing me, but tisi was a little scummy early on, so I don't see it as AI.

GuiltyLion's attack on Mick of "couple" vs 15 is

Conman flips on a FB initial scumread saying FB got more serious after prodding. I can't really assess FB's transition since I haven't read it, but strikes me as a bit of an odd thing to townread over. Couldn't scum just as easily take pressure as reason to get serious?

although CMM I do want to know who those other people are still

OK I read back some and ISOd some folks
I think there's scum in:
Ari, marci, the eira slot, frog, firered
I need to read marci's iso because it was all incidental stuff from reading other folks'.
I think your push on FB is wrong but useful and I like your play.
My Datisi read I think is wrong for now and I'm gonna move my vote. Later stuff certainly appears to be working toward a solve. Page 28 interactions with FB aside but I thing ye all talked about that enough.
I thought also maybe skip and scamp had scum between them but then actually skitter's iso looked pretty good and I haven't looked at scamp properly yet.

HEMs early stuff I thought town and also VP but a few things struck me as off from both and I would like to look back properly at both.

I don't particularly think FB is town but I can wait for him to kick into gear for now and he's done enough that I am not auto scumreading so I don't want to vote there right now.
I am interested in seeing more of Xof's iso dives to see what kind of content is there
I will look at some stuff in the morning. I'm trying to just chuck down rough notes so I don't have to start fresh so I appreciate this is a bit halfhazard.

RN I like Datisi, Nero, and GL.

VOTE: Ari

I'm going to take a wild guess and say this is the point where people started scum reading conman? It's a pretty whatever scum list. I think of those slots, maybe only fire has given me any kind of scum ping this game. Saying Eira (Dann) is most likely scum feels a little convenient since it's a less established slot to attack. I'll keep this in mind when I ISO Dann.

Did the bold (my addition) ever happen conman?

Can't sleep so here have some word vomit
Marci- posts seem to just be cutesy one liners alluding to solving the game but not really demonstrating any intent to contribute.
Frog - posts read as that faux aggressive solver but arguments are just grasping at whatever in reach. Cagey reads - presumably because they are very rough and vague? - yet also acknowledging that I am using the thread "as a notebook" and being critical of that. I don't think these ideas align. Interested in Gamma and I because it's convenient.
Gamma- thought the questions were an effort to sort me and no offence given or taken, more was trying to see how you were thinking around sorting. Not very clear on this wagon (firered, irrelephant, Nero, frog) but not currently wanting to vote here myself. Haven't looked at the people voting here in depth. Liked Nero's start though, and the few posts I've read between.
Ari - similar to marci but more in-depth at least, lots of fluff about "I'm not nice" but nothing I really consider very town. Trying to push some narrative of sorting by highlighting rvs shitposts as sorting, doubt. Very weak claim.
Scamper - datisi-> largely agreed with HEMs 286 and 292, and Ausukas 288 and 290.
Later posts and a re-read makes me think I was wrong to jump just for these.
pls answer my question about irrelephant read. I also don't buy this "developed view" comment, I don't think anything I have presented is developed. This is a big game and I am trying to compartmentalise with some loose strokes to start, I don't think this is a justified comment but I want to be sure this isn't just more semantic conflict.
FB #1782 "useful" in that it drew out your contribution beyond the early "lolol I rolled scum" and got you engaged. I think then it tunnelled at needless length thus why I said I think it's wrong move, but that doesn't mean it wasn't worth the end result. You had some solid posts resulting from that, which made me feel good about your slot.

I sort of wonder how much experience you have with this playlist, conman? A lot of this seems like personality stuff that's NAI. (marci, Ari being cute...Frog being aggro)


Does someone have any other major points made against conman that I'm missing here? Doesn't feel like a TERRIBLE D1 lim, but I'm not feeling like 'oh wow, that's bad' when I read his ISO.

[VP Baltar]

I hate it when I accidentally q+ things

It's my new vibe

[VP Baltar]

Datisi, who should I vote before I catch up?

dann or conman

VOTE: conman

was there a reason you voted conman here?

I saw people bagging on Danny for the frogster survey thing and I thought that was dumb, and that was about the only content I had even glanced at from either.

[VP Baltar]

Dannflor:

Immediately calling gamma town is weird. of course with a title of White Knight, maybe dann is just living up to it

- I kind of like that Dann comes straight into the game giving reads, even if they're a little unexplained.

I don't town read marci and I think their emotional response to Ausuka can very much be genuine regardless of their alignment

Also agree with this, though I townread marci much more than Ausuka.

VOTE: Frogsterking

y?

I don't think coming in as a replacement and automatically town reading all (or almost all) the active slots immediately shows you are critically thinking about the game at all

I think it shows you want to blend in with the crowd and survive

plus the survey as a substitute for content is icky

Ok, so obv I disagree with the survey point, and my memory was not wrong.

Here in Bunnies, I got very annoyed and entered a semi-shit fight with frog over a survey entry: viewtopic.php?p=13223568#p13223568

So I totally understand getting bugged by that. Danny's wrong, but I can get it being offputting anyhow.

Danny's other point about frogster townreading active slots seems more valid, since that's not really a reason to town read someone. I would need to fact check this point to defend Danny over it, but on its face I think it has merit...so if people are mad at Dann over the frogster vote, that seems kind of bogus to me.

also idk about their meta but scum usually doesn't behave the way my predecessor did of giving out 0 content

they didn't even throw out a hedged read or some wishy washy faked reads

they were like, sorry my brain is overloaded and dipped. they didn't try and were perfectly content about that. they were a townie who got overwhelmed by the volume of the game.

I think Fireisred pushing there makes some sense because they were looking for something specific but I'm skeptical about genuine scum reads on the slot. Scum usually doesn't behave like that and I'd challenge people to find instances of scum behaving like that.

never been a fan of defending your past player or agreeing with scum reads there, but this is a pretty soft version of it.

with the most level 0 read you can make?

didn't even ask if frogster was serious danni boy just went for it

this kind of looks like BS shade, knowing more of the context now.

why would it seem serious

because it seems to be?????????????????????????

the part where he's talking about meta on my predecessor seems like he's trying to make a serious point?

I don't understand why I'm not supposed to be taking this seriously

am I pulling a skitter from the start of the game here

oh, was dann pushed into discussing his predecessor? That seems less scummy then.

Also, what does pulling a skitter mean?

I really like DV's push on GL

oh, I remember wanting to read this more in depth. Note to self.

I would join a wagon on Marci now I think

Hate this tho. Easy wagon and asking for support before risking a vote.

I expected Guilty Lion to want to engage with me more. It felt like he waited an obligatory amount of time to see what the vibes would be and then moved back to my wagon. And I sort of expect GL to be the type of player who likes to sort every player for himself

frankly you kinda helped out a lot by making some terrifically bad posts about Frogster that I disliked everything about

I probably could have commented more on them but I'm still at work

We just played in a game together where I made very similar posts at the start of the game

WAIT WAIT WAIT....You've played with Frogster before????? I assumed you were new to him....that's less great.

[VP Baltar]

why did you call this post an "attack"?

Because it read like you shading him over something very pedantic. If that wasn't your goal, I have no idea why you even posted it.

[VP Baltar]

Looking at frogster now because I have 10 more mins.

I'm guessing it's TvT

wasn't really my point. Like I personally think that both of them are a bit scummy but they are defending your scumread and you think they are town for it?

I think they look like they're picking a fight with you for no good reason and that's something I attribute to Town.

lol, why would I be picking a fight with nero for no reason? feels a bit like you're pocketing nero a touch here.

Or maybe nero is trying to pocket you here. he seems to be asking you a lot of friendly questions that don't seem to go anywhere substantive.

What's cagey about it?

All of your reads I quoted within 1732 I would define as cagey. If you would like to expand on them and make them non-cagey then I think that's fair.

I can agree with this a bit, so good line of pointed attack from frogster.

Fair enough, do you have any thoughts on xo?

i had leaned them town when they had like 6 posts just on vibes, they made a post that was very waffly but it felt authentic in an indecisive townie way for someone who doesnt play mafia games that often and isnt used to the high volume. it kind of feels like they are operating at their own pace doing their own thing.

i get what ur saying about the iso posting feeling potentially performative, there was one post they had where i kind of worried it mite b writing words for the sake of writing words, but it was a minor ping and i otherwise havent been concerned. i may be biased just because they seem pleasant and its easy to townread people for being pleasant, but i think they are fine for now.

It appears to me as though there are legitimate reasons to be suspicious of the xoxelf slot, especially compared to Gamma and Conman, VOTE: xoxelf

Can I get you to bullet point this case agianst xo for me? I saw they posted a bunch more maybe, so I need to read that. curious what you're seeing there.

@Nero @marci

On principle I sheep Townhunters unless I think they're scum or biased. Via scamper I can TR Gamma and Ydrasse by proxy. Via Ydrasse (who I'm guessing is a Townhunter)

I can TR xoxelf by proxy I think.

like 5 posts later. Froggy contains multitudes. Serious read though is that is maybe less likely for scum to say so quickly potentially.

Also why do VP and Dannflor communicate with each other like aliens here?

I'm a bot. This is cannon.

I'll reassess if more than one of Ari, Dease, xoxelf, or Nero show up with Baltar, dann or conman in their town bin.

I'm semi-confused on how you go from scumreading xoelf, to town reading them by proxiy (which maybe I can believe...you're weird sometimes), to seemingly taking xo's reads as a factor into your own reads. I find that last step less believable.


-frogster binning me with the new folks is very weird. Curious where your thinking is there Frogster. If you're scum reading me, why?

-Ok, I didn't quite get through all of frog's ISO, but I have to dip. I have my phone on me and will try to check back a little bit if I can.

Overall assessment of Frog's slot is maybe town lean. Think some of the stuff he's on feels like tangents, which is normal. The xoelf read makes no fucking sense though.

[VP Baltar]

further, what is this thought doing in the middle of a read (& vote) on conman anyway? like do you think I'm scum making up a bad reason to suspect/bus my buddy?

I was reading his ISO, and I had to click back to see what he was responding to. Then I saw your post.

[VP Baltar]

hey vp. could you do gamma and the irrelevant elephant pls?

I can't right now, but I will try to get to them next time I have some time at a computer to play mafia. Elephant has been on my list before all the replacements, but they felt more urgent because of the wagons.

[VP Baltar]

I'm not super feeling either the conman or dann wagons.

VOTE: guiltylion

I'd rather lim GL. There is just something very argumentative about him this game that bugs me. Felt like his whole interaction with me earlier game was weird, and I've seen a few comments when I've been skimming that feel more like shade than scumhunting. He's just got a whole "path of least resistance" vibe.

ADD IT TO MY ISOCATCHUP list.

pedit- well there you go, now you got something else to upset about. bye bye.

[VP Baltar]

every time I read a GuiltyLion - VPBaltar conversation I think it's like Batman fighting the Joker.

dibs on joker.

Batman is a capitalist pig.

[VP Baltar]

looking forward to vpb isoing gl i guess?

what's your reason for voting dannflor tho? I don't get how that ISO is the best case made in the game.

[VP Baltar]

sorry for just continuing to be obtuse and pedantic I suppose, but I don't get how you can accuse me of both being argumentative and also "path of least resistance"

it is indeed pedantic. Arguing is the easiest thing in the world if it has no point and you're not trying to find out people's alignments.

[VP Baltar]

I think VP's analysis of me is softing that I'm town so when I flip he can point to having read me correctly for D2 credit

This is a very, talk shit get limmed post.

You think I should be scum reading you? Also curious to hear how serious you think my vote on you was.

[VP Baltar]

This is a very, talk shit get limmed post.

Can you explain what this means? I see town express that kind of read and sentiment all the time. It's extremely natural for a townie to be looking for people who seem like they know they'll flip town and are potentially maneuvering around that.

It means, I don't care much if conman is the D1 lim, and if he'd like me to just vote him without actually thinking about his alignment just to prove something, I will.

[VP Baltar]

I'm finding it pretty hard to be invested in this game because of the long weekend in the US, but I'm going to raise a few points about GuiltyLion that kind of bug me. This is far from a comprehensive analysis of his ISO, but I need to force myself to be involved here otherwise I'll just end up not logging in all weekend.


I'll say I started off the game kind of being OK with GL. I didn't mind his pushes on scamper and FB, and I could at least understand where he was coming from there. But as the game has progressed, I've found the things he's pushing to be quite nonsensical and filled with busy work.

As an example:

like specifically, he's the one who brought up the idea of a shitfight with Nero to begin with. Then when Nero was like "actually why aren't you fighting with me", his response was "cause that's what I would do if I were scum, and I'm not scum". idk if I'm effectively communicating the point, but it just feels like comments weren't meant to do anything other than imply that his play is town

This is such a nonsense point he is trying to even make. The person who got freaking OUTRAGED that I asked a clarifying question about who he was referring to (1214 is around the end of this argument for those who need refreshing) is trying to use a clear joke as a shade point against me. It just doesn't make sense when he thinks its so fake for me to not understand him, but then he can't comprehend jokes. Give me a fucking break. He's either town who is way over committed to a scum!VP worldview and is trying to score cheap points, or he's scum. I have a hard time believing the former considering I had to goad him about not actually being willing to vote me without cover of a wagon.

i'm not personally really townreading but a number of my townreads are and I'm currently ok with that: {dv, marci, xofelf}

would yeet: {dann, conman, firebringer, vpb}

This is an absolute trash reads list, imo. DV looks pretty town to me this game. Marci seems pretty townie, though she's opaque sometimes. xofelf is probably null to town lean for me. Dann and conman I've talked about already. FB did look scummy to me early on, so I can agree there. And I'm town.

So like, where's the beef in this reads list? Unless I'm so dead wrong on my reads at the start of this game, I have trouble seeing how people see this list from GL as credibly a good take from someone who has been HIGHLY engaged with the game so far.

i think this could be following the same trajectory as turing test here where i kinda lowkey scumread GL for most of d1 and then it gets to eod and he summarizes his reads and oops turns out we agree on almost everything maybe he's just town

can you give me like the top liner for why you're voting CMM instead of Dann? I'm considering switching but kinda want to see what Dann does on return

And the last thing that really bugs me about GL is the constant looking for cover from other players. I've made this point already, and GL says "well I do this as town"...which means absolutely nothing. That's an easy meta thing to exploit and duplicate as scum so you take no responsibility for anything that happens.

The extremely hedgy "I'm considering switching" just reads like he's testing the waters with fire here to see what they think before actually making a move. It's gross and doesn't have town vibes to me.

In that situation, if I'm actually unsure of what to do, I might ask a more direct question, like: "Hey fire, I think CMM is scummy for XYZ, but I'm unsure if I'm over analyzing that. I"d like your opinion." Instead, we get a trial balloon floated.



Datisi, I'd be curious to hear what you find townie about GL since you said that's your read there. What am I missing?

[VP Baltar]

Ari, I saw you saying you think I'm scum. Why?

[VP Baltar]

Skimmed obscure's ISO. Thinking town there since his posting is extremely involved and detailed for someone completely new to mafia. Unless it's an alt and the "I'm new" thing is a schtick to hide the alt, seems unlikely someone gives that much spew as a first time scum.

That being said, GL and Ausuka seem to be his top town reads, and that's inherently bad. You have much to learn young padawan.

[VP Baltar]

vip vote gamma pls

Let's lim GL first, then gamma.

[VP Baltar]

actually, give me the TLDR gamma case. I'll consider.

[VP Baltar]

TLDR on GL:

-Shading and making pedantic arguments with people that aren't scumhunting. Evil intentions!
- Readlist stinks to high heaven.
- Too afraid to live his own life. Wants excuses in the future when he's on a misyeet D1.

[VP Baltar]

Ari, I saw you saying you think I'm scum. Why?

you have bad luck?

That's unfortunate.

[VP Baltar]

half the game scumreads dann and/or con. Fire was wagoned earlier and several ppl have called you scum this game. If you want to argue that he's just trying to blend in with scum reading the popular wagons then fine I guess but his position seems hardly unique.

Not really what I said, but I also don't disagree with viewing it like that I guess.

[VP Baltar]

VP I also had the thought of a lot of GL’s posts being busy work, but I don’t think it’ll take off Day 1 (also I probably need more time on that read)

It's fair that I'm likely going to have to compromise on a lesser choice. But I'd like to put it out there, and people can vote if they feel moved. Probably unlikely I eat a NK at this point, but I still like my opinions documented just in case, regardless.

[VP Baltar]

your point about his reads being bad is lol because like, i agree with the vast majority of them so i'm not sure that you're gonna win me over on that point

Yikes

[VP Baltar]

your point about his reads being bad is lol because like, i agree with the vast majority of them so i'm not sure that you're gonna win me over on that point

Yikes

why have you not criticized my triangle then

Haven't seen it. There were a bunch of pages I just straight havent had the time to read this week. If your reads closely align with GL's, we have pretty different views on the game.

[VP Baltar]

I'm finding it pretty hard to be invested in this game because of the long weekend in the US,

LOL

What's funny?

[VP Baltar]

having typed all of this out... i feel like my reads are bad.

starting here.

JK. I'll respond to each of these if you'd like.

[VP Baltar]

pedit: I see this is unrequested, but I don't care because I'm fooking trying. Datisi, I don't think your reads actually closely align with GL would be my takeaway. 4-5 of his top scum reads are on the town side of your triangle (even if some are lower confidence), so you might want to rethink how you're viewing him.

ausuka

- basically this slot is town lmao. like, i think their read on me and suspicion on me makes sense. the things they've been calling me out for (e.g. me ~defusing scumreads~) are a bit contrived, but they're also the correct creativity level that i'd expect after that recent micro. the rest of their reads ~make sense~, the interaction with marcistar is fine in both content and tone, their engagement levels are still what i'd expect of them from town. so, like. could ausuka be playing a Correct Scum Game on all fronts? sure, theoretically. am i going to catch that today if that's the case? very likely not.

I am not an ausuka whisperer since we maybe have 1 game together? This might even be our first, IDK. I definitely felt bad vibes from her early on like she was pulling reads out of thin air, but I don't feel confident in that read being so far behind. Curious why you think Ausuka can't play an effective scum game.

frogsterking

- *opens iso* *sees 57 posts since him repping in* *closes iso*

in all seriousness, the vibe i got from his scumplay is that he *does not want to be there* and the vibe i get from his townplay is the exact opposite. the actual reads he has as town are usually batshit insane to me so i probably won't be judging him by that metric, but. obviously i won't be locking this read yet, because it has not been even 24 hours, but i have faith that frogsterking will be making his alignment increasingly obvious over time. and if frogster dies and baltar got his alignment wrong, we are instantly yeeting baltar. that understood? good.

agree

scamper

- vaguely judging him by meta, i *think* he's town. i don't sense aggression that i kinda did in his scum game. i think scum!him wouldn't have tried to break up fights like he did here. case on irrel was really good and made sense, in my (probs biased) opinion. many of his townreads / defenses (e.g. me in early game) feel like something he doesn't make as scum bc i feel like it would benefit him more for those to just keep happening rather than him stepping in. like, i feel like this stuff is all something he *could* fake, but on balance i don't think it's overly likely he is rn.

I don't have scamper meta either. I would say your town read feels stronger than I'd commit there.

humaneatingmonkey

- the main reason why i'm townreading this slot if because his thoughts on me and around me make sense, see my 1343. otherwise, this seems like a... quiet-town game from him. what i mean is, i don't get the feeling that he's trying to brute force or shitpush things through, and i feel like there were several moments he could've gone more aggressive (like on his push on me) and did not do that. and my impression of him as a scum player is that he *would* have done that. so i'm fine lowkey townbinning him for now.

monkey is town probably.

guiltylion

- pain pain pain pain. i wanted this to be a scumread, i really did, but i don't think it is. like. 1409, 1511, and the points on dannflor i all actually *like*. and i know that guiltylion sees things differently from me sometimes, and that i sometimes scumread him because "why are we not mindmelding on every single fucking thing in the game" but that's not a good metric probably. so like. he can be town for now. i'l re-evaluate him in the later days. if i'm dead n1 he's prob scum tho :3

you're wrong. RIP.

fireisredsir

- i like the find on eira, i like the openness he was posting with wrt his own emotions, and i feel like "as scum, there's stuff to do but as town there's not" is something i am more likely to hear from town (when the person who's saying that is good at scum). i am fine townbinning him for now, i feel like the ~waviness~ is +town, but god knows i don't remember shit from invictus so this is another "take it with a grain of salt" read.

I'd say I'm about in the same place with fire. Biggest thing giving me pause is he is reading me correctly, so...

vp baltar

- every bone in my body is telling me to yeet him, which is about standard as either alignment so whatever. 1310 is veering into TSTBS territory for me. maybe. because "hehehoho i have 3 scumreads and zero townreads" is such a fucking. horrible take that i feel like scum just Doesn't hit submit on a post like that. i hate the way he's playing around me bc it feels like he's afraid to either townread or scumread me because he knows that i am gonna be all over his read if i deem that it's not what i imagine it has to be, and guessing THAT is basically impossible because not even i know what i think it should be right now. but uh, giving this a bit more time until he's a little bit less busy i guess, but. idk. pain.

Town you dolt.

nero cain

- i have a crackpot theory that 1741 is informed, because we semi-recently played a game with 19 players and 5 scum, so that feels off, but other than that. this feels lightly town. no, i don't have any good reasons other than "vibes". his play feels like pushing the game in the direction that he seems to be pro-town, but not in a way to give off an appearance of solving without actual solving. does that make sense. and nothing he's posted has yet made me feel like something is wrong. the one caveat i have here is that (afair) both times i played with nero, he was town, and he was getting into some shitfigths and i don't feel like he's entered a proper one yet. yes i know that is pretty weak, but.

I can get down with about all of this.

aristeia

- i already see she's not going to be a fan of her own placing, but it is what it is. she's lightly town for ~quiet solving~ and seemingly not being forceful in this game (e.g. sheeping other people), because i know her scumgame is more forceful and she's not afraid to push things when she needs to. the obvious * is that, if the game is going well for her already, she doesn't *need* to push things anywhere. and i haven't yet felt like she's obvtowned herself via solving. so. can be slightly +town for now, i guess.

Maybe? Ari is pretty dead null for me, which isn't great. I'm not sure why she is so reserved this game. I could as easily see an argument that scum with a lot of good players in the game is more gun shy as I could see the town argument you're making. Not a slot I'm worried about having feelings on today is probably my biggest feeling.

ydrasse

- "hold on, ydrasse has more than 100 posts?" is the first thing i thought of because i don't remember almost any of them. don't think that's actually scum!indicative for ydra as i said for someone like gamma, tho, bc i know scum!ydra can Post when she wants to post, and that town!ydra is sometimes flaky. 1891 is something i liked, because i can't sense any immediate scum agenda from them, and they overall Make Sense. (the one thing i may be kinda worried about is the fact she seems to townread me without interacting much with me, but we're out of the early game where i was getting lolscumread so i don't think it's an especially useful or successful pocket attempt, if so. maybe it is if i'm falling for it like this. anyway.) i have also learned that i don't really know how to read ydrasse so this is another one of "will think about this later" reads but yeah ok

town on vibes

firebringer

- he ended up in the town side of the triangle?? anyway, i still dislike the early stuff that i said earlier, but like. am i stupid for townreading a post like 1783? maybe i am, i don't know. i don't know why i feel like firebringer would've reacted differently to that post, but i just *do*. obviously, jury's still out on this one and i'll give an updated read here once he's properly in the game, but here we are for now.

Scum read for me early that I need to revisit and see if they posted anything better.

marcistar

- this is town purely on (1) vibes; (2) idea that scum-marci would be giving out at least *some* sorta reads rather than purely shitposting. and i agree with ausuka that the earlier emotional posts were townie. (inb4 "why did you say you thought scum-her would push on you" i wanted to see her reaction to it if i did that. no, the reaction wasn't interesting. inb4 "datisi are you cleverly defusing scumreads on you again" shut up ausuka i'm town this game stop trying to make scumtisi happen it's not going to happen)

agree. Also, I don't see how you're agreeing that GL has a legit viewpoint on scum reading this slot. I think at worst you'd call null here.

obscure

- i feel like he's lowkey townie. i don't *like* a lot of his reads, but i feel like that can be explained with him not being familiar with the site meta and w/e. iguess his posts overall give me a feeling of pureness? also, i feel like the "if i die, i want to have my thoughts out" is a kind of townie thought to have. idk.

We're arriving at the same read for different reasons here.

deasvail

- i think he's lightly town for the townread on me, both for the content and the timing of it. nothing else jumps out at me much.

I have a stronger town read on DV for the way he's mixing it up with folks.

xof

- slightly town. very close to "true null" to me, but slightly veering into town. might be because i really *want* them to be town, but. the things that they're choosing to focus on make sense to me, and it overall gives off the feeling that they're just doing their own thing. the thing i'm probably most interested in right now is their updated read on me, but for now they can stay in this position.

We're in about the same confidence level here. I don't know how to read xofelf, but they're ok to me.

gamma emerald

- god, this iso feels *boring*. i'm putting her at slightly-scum because i gathered literally nothing that jumped at me from that iso that interested me at all, and that's probably scummy. idk i'll think about this slot when there's something to think about.

I could see this. I would add the level of emotion actually feels kind of dead to me and given how much pressure they've been under at times, I feel like I'd expect more reactionary lashing out from a town!gamma.

dannflor

- eh. i don't like the read on frosterking. i don't like the read on guilty. i'm gonna give this a bit more time b/c i know it's annoying when people are jumping at you right out of the game, but. not a fan, currently.

I've addressed my read here. I'm less sold on the frogster thing than most I think, mostly because of personal bias of having the same reax. Good reminder that I need to check if Dann responded to me asking about them playing together before though.

conmanmick

- meeeh, his entrance feels like a textbook scum entrance. like he is giving reads, but none of them are actually interesting. and something about him having just three townreads (me/nero/gl) feels off? especially when the reasoning for that seems to be a minimal "they do be solving" reasoning.

this reads to me like we drew the same points from his posts, but you gave more weight to the shit reads and I gave more weight to the "this guy hasn't played with many of these people and is misreading personality as scumminess." Maybe I'm being too generous here, but his points strike me as bad because he doesn't know what he's talking about rather than an agenda.

irrel

- i've talked about my issues with his read on me already. i didn't like the post where he was like "i love when the wagon is on town, makes vca easier", first because it reads like fake bravado, second because i don't get the feeling he's actually done any vca. what's giving me pause is the recent vent-posting, because i feel like that *usually* comes from town, but good scum definitely can replicate it so it's not a greta point but it still is giving me pause.

a read I keep avoiding going to the ISO well for. fuck if I know. I actually didn't mind his push on you. Still on my to-do list forever because I don't wanna

[VP Baltar]

I'm semi-confused on how you go from scumreading xoelf, to town reading them by proxiy (which maybe I can believe...you're weird sometimes), to seemingly taking xo's reads as a factor into your own reads. I find that last step less believable.

Frogster, did you answer this? I may have missed if you did.

[VP Baltar]

WAIT WAIT WAIT....You've played with Frogster before????? I assumed you were new to him....that's less great.

Dann, how many times have you played with Frogster before?

[VP Baltar]

what I liked about CMM is his aggressiveness/hostility towards slots voting him. like he doesn't seem afraid at all to pick fights, could certainly be scum bravado but my gut reaction feels it's authentic townie

who is he being hostile toward?

[VP Baltar]

GuiltyLion...is the conman townread a recent thing?

[VP Baltar]

On Gamma, I agree that my experience with him is much more emotion as town. My reservation there is that I had literally just called Gamma out about that right before the outburst, so seems like it could be fake.

If we are picking between conman and dann today, I might be more inclined to Dann now, depending on what he says to my frogster question whenever he returns. I'd like to see whatever game they played together before

[VP Baltar]

I'll give HEM's point a closer look. I think I skimmed that.

[VP Baltar]

mostly thought hem made a good point against cmm that cmm was unable to answer

The point being that his GL read flipped? Idk, maybe he is making it up, but like why? It's not like I have a lot of momentum backing my GL push right now. What's he got to gain from it?

[VP Baltar]

On Gamma, I agree that my experience with him is much more emotion as town. My reservation there is that I had literally just called Gamma out about that right before the outburst, so seems like it could be fake.

hrrrng
pls don't start, my spirit is kinda broken rn

Ok, take it easy then friend.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: conman

E-1. Claim.

[VP Baltar]

I'm semi-confused on how you go from scumreading xoelf, to town reading them by proxiy (which maybe I can believe...you're weird sometimes), to seemingly taking xo's reads as a factor into your own reads. I find that last step less believable.

Frogster, did you answer this? I may have missed if you did.

Froggy, you indeed didn't answer this.

[VP Baltar]

Can you explain your thinking?

[VP Baltar]

I'm semi-confused on how you go from scumreading xoelf, to town reading them by proxiy (which maybe I can believe...you're weird sometimes), to seemingly taking xo's reads as a factor into your own reads. I find that last step less believable.

Frogster, did you answer this? I may have missed if you did.

Froggy, you indeed didn't answer this.

Can you explain your thinking?

I wonder if I would bus con man if they were on my team here.

I'm semi-confused on how you go from scumreading xoelf, to town reading them by proxiy (which maybe I can believe...you're weird sometimes), to seemingly taking xo's reads as a factor into your own reads. I find that last step less believable.

Frogster, did you answer this? I may have missed if you did.

Froggy, you indeed didn't answer this.

Can you explain your thinking?

I wonder if I would bus con man if they were on my team here.

This feels towny
Like, it takes a second to get it but there’s a definite thought process here that has nuance

There are other reasons to TR frogster. Being an annoying isn't one of them.

[VP Baltar]

VPB, what were your thoughts on 2395?

I mean, seems a little meh to flip a read. He's certainly being hostile to Gamma, but the other stuff is reasonably vague. I'm a bit surprised you're putting that much weight on it.

[VP Baltar]

Auskua! Ausuka! Ausuka!

[VP Baltar]

I don't like VP being on top of me or anywhere near green territory.

i'm not one to litigate who tops between you two but

*spits out drink*

I don't even think I caught this Ydrae post during the game, but *slow clap*