NY135: Sexy Sedilla Semi-Open - Town Wins
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ythan is town. im getting frustrated town vibes from parabollocks despite his inconsistencies. hiraki is still scum, despite trying to laugh it off.
swag is possible scum, i believe the bookmarking bit, but refusing to give any explanation for scum sentiments followed by an L-1 vote with very fluff reasoning does not make town. claims that the L-1 vote can be written off as null for being a newb should also make the eagerness to start the game null as well.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Quilford wrote:I would be surprised if neither Ythan nor Ethos were scum at this point
I agree. And I have a mega town boner for Ythan.
Ethos: what makes my fluff (I don't believe that my pointed comments towards Hiraki were fluff) more of a sin then the half a dozen players who have contributed less? also meta arguments are bad and you are making a whole bunch of them please stop!
Ethos wrote:Ythan wrote:Ethos wrote:Idk about reg but I am done arguing until we get some fresh thoughts in here.
When you don't follow through with things like this it just looks like you want an excuse to stop posting.
Its 1 fucking AM.
I have an appointment at 9 AM.
We're going nowhere with this. IF I wanted an excuse to stop posting, I would have said "I'm done" or "Whatever" or something dismissing.
except it was an excuse to stop posting. you originally said you were done arguing and just left it at that. then you backpedal and say its a time issue, you could have just said that from the start.
SpyreX wrote:Hiraki isn't scum yo. Ythan is town though so 1 for 2 aint bad.
Its not quite 2 out of 3 though. on that note my next forum name will be meatloafknowsbestmostofthetime.
I wrote the above before in between outings 2 and a half hours ago. I come back and Ethos has made even more meta arguments and thinks the mask is scum for 2 posts followed by a 2-3 day v/la? Like, really? There is absolutely no excuse for this.
Hiraki is still scum, and I hope you will come to see this in the future SpyreX, but for now I am perfectly content with this Ethos wagon.
unvote, vote: Ethosadd me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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going back over the last 8 pages or so that i missed while i was out~
my initial thoughts on Ethos revolved around his bad reasoning on the kanye vote, and i also dont like him attaching it to town reading of para (even tho i think (thought?) para is town)
Ethos wrote:Think about when scum get on a bandwagon. Think about what they do. They need town cred to survive. There are two ways to get that:
1. Bus a scumbuddy
2. Argue against a townie's lynch
So you don't think that scum can get on a wagon they know will flip town?
Also notice that the second is exactly what Ethos is doing right now.
Ethos wrote:I'm honestly baffled as to why people aren't reading the taking credibility for the wagon as either
1. Indicative they are both scum
2. Indicative he is town
because scum can be on town wagons!!
lol at #204.
#257 claiming that you arent being contradictaroy because youre a hydra isnt a very good excuse. as spyrex pointed out earlier, its your own responsibility to make the hydra work.
#268 spyrex isnt hirakis buddy as spyrex is town. fyi.
#275 agreed.
also seriously, the "meta v/la, but i dont think hes faking v/la" shit just blows my mind. like, theres two of you there, how did you both come to a consensus on this and not dismiss it immediately?
In other news, parabollocks has gone completely silent since people came to his defense. i dont like that at all and i am much less certain in my frustrated town read on him. im null on oversoul and quilford is leaning town. idher is still town and everyone else needs weigh in on the last 8 pages.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Ethos wrote:Kayne wrote:Ethos: what makes my fluff(I don't believe that my pointed comments towards Hiraki were fluff)more of a sin then the half a dozen players who have contributed less?also meta arguments are bad and you are making a whole bunch of them please stop!
Italic: If it wasn't fluff then why did you avoid answering what the purpose of the question really was when we asked you. Your fluff included a soft attempt to throw suspicion towards Swag in #35 as well as a flat out meaningless question in post #59.
Bolded: This is incredibly forced and ungeninue, if you believe we're mafia which you seem to do you would have no issue whatsoever with us putting forward arguments you consider weak.
Yeah, I don't have a problem with you doing it and I'm going to keep calling you on meta bullshit.
Ethos wrote:Kayne wrote: my initial thoughts on Ethos revolved around his bad reasoning on the kanye vote, and i also dont like him attaching it to town reading of para (even tho i think (thought?) para is town)
This again is forced, note the 'bad reasoning on a kayne vote' where he ignores the fact the vote is on him.
so i cant find a flaw in something merely because its based around me? k.
Ethos wrote:Kayne wrote:So you don't think that scum can get on a wagon they know will flip town?Also notice that the second is exactly what Ethos is doing right now.
Italic: Another massive fucking misrepresenation of the truth, I don't believe scum would start a wagon that will flip town and then TAKE CREDIT for it.
Bolded: So are you attempting to argue that you believe fighting against a townies lynch is a scum-tell?
i dont believe town would either. its a null tell and you are trying to hoist it up as a mega town tell.
Ethos wrote:Kayne wrote: #257 claiming that you arent being contradictaroy because youre a hydra isnt a very good excuse. as spyrex pointed out earlier, its your own responsibility to make the hydra work.
You've just seen the word hydra disagreements and attempted to jump to misrepresent again; The 'contradiction' has nothing to with our reads, moreso Slaxx saying he's more confident in our reads than I am.
sorry for calling you out on something that is pretty plain to see (your a bad hydra.)
#335 more meta
#338 okay i could see ethos-para buds now.
Parabollocks wrote:Town
Ythan
Oversoul
Hiraki
Ethos
Idher
Null
T-Bone (lean town)
Chair
kunkstar7
quilford
Knight of Cydonia
dramonic
Swag
The Mask
Untripod
Scum
Kanye (will get to this.)
town: everyone who has posted more than twice.
null: everyone who hasnt posted more than twice.
scum: sheeping the guy who saved me from the block, my hero~~~
Hiraki wrote:Quilford wrote:Hiraki: what was the point of your Parabollocks vote when you unvoted in your very next post? Why did you want to lynch off his wagon?Hiraki wrote:Even though Parabollocks is scummy, I can't see a town wagon forming this fast.
I didn't know how fast it would go.
You hopped on at L-2, how much faster could it have gone from that point?
Oversoul wrote:Knight of Cydonia wrote:Fourteen pages? Fuck you guys.
It isn't that important. Mostly just Ethosand Ythan duking it out.
except a lot actually came out of it? dont write it off just because you dont want to read into it.
on that note, i am going to be out of town until later tonight.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Ethos wrote:Yes, I can agree that it was a bit of a misspeak, as I said the sole purpose was to attempt to convince him to stay in the game becuase he is a player that I consider good and have had an enjoyable experience with him in the past.
I disagree about KKB, I believe scum have more incentive to lock the lynch between two town players then to just place another vote on the leading one. His vote forced the attention to be stay between myself and Para whereas if he just voted Para and Para claimed a PR there would be a scramble of votes off Para which could result in going anywhere. The hydra business that you state he called us out on has been elaborated on multiple times, the contradiction he attempted to push was one merely stating that we both have different strengths of reads which is in no way a scum-tell.
Regfan.
Conflict between your heads is not in itself scummy, but your manner of handling it and using the excuse of it being a hydra is what strikes me as scummy. Note I haven't called any of the other hydras on this because none of them are going about it in a scummy fashion thus far. And saying that I am forcing attention to stay between your and para is just laughable - how is not voting for someone i think might be town and instead voting someone i think might not be town scummy? also remember that i initially tried to move attention away from para and called out hiraki on voting him to L-2 and then immediately unvoting him. thats hardly trying to get people to choose between you and para.
anyways, i just got home, time to read from page 14. ill have a post on anything juicy i see asap~add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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what.The Mask wrote:unvote; vote: swag... I dunno, I still think there's something behind him lurking when the game started. Haven't read the 11 pages I missed but I see 6 votes on Para so lol, no.
refusal to commit to any reads by parabollocksParabollocks wrote:Nulls can change to scum/town all the time, i like having huge null lists for these reasons, and some town reads can fill those nulls once again etc.
also, just because i have someone as scum doesn't mean i'm gonna vote them yet, i need to make a case on them or put some reasoning behind a vote before i vote someone, that's how i do things, don't like it, oh well.
#362 ...
#375 dram
spyrex already touched on it but because he disagrees with your reasoning for a town read does not mean he can't think the dude is town.Ethos wrote:Quilford (Near the start of the day) wrote: I think Oversoul is town too but how do you discern Swag is town?Quilford (After people were attacking our reasoning behind the read) wrote: So I really don't think Oversoul 'claimed' anything. With the 'w00t!' in front of the 'claim' it reads less like "oh I started that wagon I want due credit" and more like "hey I'm a noob and I did something right for once".
Ignores the fact that he earlier stated he had a town-read on Oversoul, doesn't state any reasoning behind it but states disagreement with the reasoning behind our town-read.
hydrascusesEthos wrote:3. I don't expect you to read our minds in regards to our reads but surely you would understand that we would make statements regarding reads that aren't all mentioned in-thread.
whyÎdher wrote:Vote: Quilford
this.SpyreX wrote:That makes your statement about "Ohh para look the scums are trying to kill you because of how right you are in your reads (KKB)" make even less sense because that wagon is made by and pushed HARD UN FAST by your now town reads.
im not obligated to tell you any of my reads im just going to keep them to myself so i can completely change my opinions at what appears to be the drop of the hat and when you call me at it, god, its in my hydra qt. please keep up. Fuck that. if you were town you would have no issues with being up front about your reads instead of hiding them.Ethos wrote:SpyreX, it's not a change of universe at all. Prior to that post all of those reads had been mentioned apart from KoC who hadn't posted until then. If you want a particular town-read explained ask otherwise I'm not in the particular mood to go around explaining them all. The statement in regards to the wagon formation was made by Slaxx with the intention of attempting to state that Para shouldn't let it all get to him too much. Essentially it was a plea to not quit playing mafia completly because Para is infact a good player. The intention behind it wasn't saying that the people strongly pushing para are scum as we only had two scum read on the wagon both relatively early on it however I can understand how you may read it as that initally. Honestly, I think what's making this game incredibly aggravating is that you've locked yourself into a mind-set that we're scum without actually taking a step back and reassesing which I urge you to do at some point in the next day or so.
#395 hiraki and i agree on something. yet i still find it lacking.
ill take this time to note i said that i hadn't given any of the other hydras besides ethos grief about their play. koc brings up a point in #396 i agree with. start explaining yourself idher.
oh.
Thats fine. id like more than a bone please. also ellaborate on the koc scumread.Îdher wrote:Oversoul, I have many reasons for my vote on Quilford and it has little to do with Ethos. I'll throw you all a bone, though, and offer a few:
Quilford, you've asked a lot of questions. What I'm missing are the conclusions.
And the way you talk about people's alignments is sketch.
how is voting swag playing from page 15 onwards at all. he has not posted since he put parabollocks at L-1 back on page 5 or whatever. i personally think theres a very good chance hes scum but lets hear your reason for this highly relevant vote to whats going on page 15 and onwards. (dear future mask replacement, i wish you could read his mind and answer this for me... i hope it doesnt keep me up at night)The Mask wrote:KoC: Thank you, I suppose. I'm actually unable to sit down for a good hour or so to read all these pages. I will torture myself in a few more days by reading what I've missed but right now I NEED to play from page 15 onwards. Nice to know my swag vote is shitposting... oh but it's SpyreX saying that so yeah, of course he's chainsawwing.
lol no. its not semantics at all. its completely unrelated to reality. please try to remember that until you came to his defense and he started goin bonkers i had a town read on him and was questioning those on his wagon.Ethos wrote:SpyreX, the 'you're right' bit revolved around his shared suspicion of Kayne with the 'this is why it's happening' involving two of our scum-read being on the wagon though in hindsight sure it's not the reason his wagon is being pushed but that's semantics. I told you to pull your head out of your ass because you're not reconsidering other suspects just tunnelling towards Para and us. You telling us that our thoughts are only from our point of view thus meaningless is proof of this. Do me a favour, read the thread, heck skim it from all I care with the mindset that Para and ourselves are town, then tell me who your leading suspects are.
#407 lol
How is that town. He put him at L-2, waited for Swag to move it to L-1 and then unvoted and said "woh too fast for me!!" thats not town.Yosarian2 wrote:- I really wanted to think that Hiraki was scum after some stuff of his I didn’t like in the random voting, but his behavior around the Parabollocks wagon feels town. I’m having trouble justifying why, tbh, but…first, he joined the wagon, then he unvoted and said that the wagon was probably pushed by scum because it was moving too fast. The whole thing gives me a town vibe on Hiraki.
agreed.SpyreX wrote: So, I definitely want some more Yos. A lot more actually. Especailly in regards to Ethos (note: not Ethos/Ythan parade).
hiraki i liked it better when u made that big effort post instead of lots of little posts that dont say anything. siiigh. will we ever be able to reconcile our differences?add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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still happy with my ethos vote, especially with his vanishing act. quilford replace is null to me.
swag has still yet to post since putting parabollocks at L-1. im going to wait for a few more yosarian posts before i try to reconcile his actions with those of paras.
V/LA until monday nighthappy fathers day ya'lladd me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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no issues with the mason thing.
i like hiraki as the vig target.
not really getting scum vibes from tripod.
#612 kunkstar votes empking with zero reason or comment on the slot prior. also claims ethos mason makes yos look better but im not seeing how it affects it at all.
oversoul: im not sure what to make of it. kid has no idea what hes doing but im not sure if its related to his alignment.
zepher: i felt scum about swag and his resistance to posting reads along with finally posting something in #795 furthers my suspicions.
saporovirus: feeling pretty null but i have to wonder why he is trying to push an empking wagon after he already claimed vig.
town
spyrex
ethos
tbone
dramonic
empking
mastin
likely town
koc
idher
yosarian
untrod tripod
null
saporovirus
oversoul
scum
chair
kunkstar
mrzepher
hiraki
Chair: getting defensive at spyrex being mad at hydras due to ethos, preemptively getting defensive about others flipping town implicating him, inconsistencies and what i feel to be fake attempts at scumhunting designed not to distract from other wagons.
#487 claiming dissent between the heads is an excellent way to call someone scum and not follow it up with a vote or more detailed argument.
#695 "SpyreX lynch is not necessary today." what does that mean. especially since in #708 you say that he is only null.
#754 his vote is on untrod tripod but he reads him as "null-leaning-scum." also in that same post he says empking is likely to be scum but then claims that empking is leaning town? he then says he would not be against the empking lynch. all in all, this post feels to me like he is just trying to put some reads out to cover himself and he is not actually interested in pushing any case. he wants to appear like he is scum hunting without having to commit to anything. i don't like it at all.
Vote: Chair
with hiraki eating the vig tonight, i would like zepher or chair to eat rope. untrod tripod is at L-1 now and i am not really comfortable with his lynch. i still need to reread yosarian2 and koc but i want to go ahead and post this now considering how close we are to lynchtime.
on another note im starting to feel like i was really spoiled by my first time playing with a hydra with how in sync and on top of things dgb/camn hydra was in speed mafia.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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T-Bone wrote:Vote: Kanye
That's the scum response I was waiting for.
Scum couldn't have predicted that Empking would not submit his kill.
But now that he's done so, you suggest that's exactly what the mafia did, so we should wait till tomorrow to lynch him. So we agree to lynch him tomorrow, you know what that means? The Bookie tags him tonight.
But Kanye as scum, that's exactly what he wants to happen. Ensure his team's bookie is successful.
Idher next as he essentially suggested we lynch Empking later as well, which would create the same scenario I just described. A Kanye or Idher lynch should be our lynch today.
youre joking right? you honestly believe that empking just happened to "forget" his kill especially with his town confirmation depending on it? thats impossible. there are two possibilities: empking is town (not a vig) pulling some sort of gambit, or hes scum who thought his lynch was imminent and decided to guarantee his lynch the next day by fakeclaiming something he knew would get him lynched. further, it doesn't make any sense to me that scum would not have killed him last night if his claim had any chance of being true due to fear that he may have been fibbing about how many shots he had.
finally, considerxRECKONERx wrote:Ending night a bit early since I might not be here later.
yeah right reck would end the night early if there were outstanding night actions as important as a vig kill the vig had claimed he was going to commit.
im sorry t-bone, but ethos was wrong about me and you should analyze whether or not you think im scummy on your own rather than sheep him and jump on a really poor reason to attack me (a reason that i feel actually increases my town read on idher.)add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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spyrex if you really want this lynch to go through today i will go along with it but im just a little hesitant considering the likelihood of his being bookied.
also re talk of him pulling a gambit or forgeting: theres no way this is a gambit he is 100% confirmed scum.
p-edit: oversoul................
ugh im starting to think hiraki might not be scumadd me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Oversoul wrote:Here is what I think happened.
In the scum quick topic, they realized that Untrod and Empking were under pressure and likely to be lynched on Day 1.In order for town to miss the scum, they have Empking fakeclaim a vigilante ability, which in essence sets scum up to out the true Vigilante and using their nightkill on that person, or potentially setting up a bookie bonus kill the next night as well as killing a townie through the mislynch. From this I assume that Empking is a goon or other mafia role that is not vital. Hell, he might even be the bookie in which case we are fucked. The bookie would have placed the power on Empking preparing for the imminent, "why didn't you use your vig shot ... you're scum" which was going to happen once everyone realized there was only 1 kill last night securing an extra night kill and killing a confirmed scum. However, if the Mafia desperately needed the extra nightkill they would continuously put the power on Empking knowing that he would be lynched sooner or later.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Chair wrote:As for the point about ending the night early, it may bear some weight, but assuming that night ending early = no outstanding actions is in essence an attempt to outguess the mod. He said that the reason would be that he wasn't going to be here, so there's no reason that he wouldn't assume action not received yet = no action.
yes but when the mod says you have 72 hours to submit your night action, theres something very wrong when he arbitrarily cuts that time short before you have submitted your action. i do not believe that reck would do something like this.
@spyrex alright! im down.
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Regarding scumpking with no bookie: fakeclaiming vig basically guaranteed his death today. Note he also made the claim at L-4, though there were several others who expressed suspicion of him and it is reasonable to believe a lynch was coming, he still had the possibility of shifting the wagon elsewhere. Alternatively, he could have claimed a harder to confirm power role and had a chance of delaying his lynch beyond today. So really the only explanation I can find for a vig fakeclaim is ensuring his death today for the bookie.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Yosarian2 wrote:Anyway, if there's 2 mafia left, then if we lynch wrong today,we mafiaeasily win tonight unless we get very lucky with crosskills. I guess we massclaim, try to lynch a member of the mafia, and then prey for crosskills? That's probably our only shot at this point.
he forgot to delete his we. also he seems to know that we are lylo.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Unvote, Vote Chair
Yosarian's excuse makes sense to me, especially in light of his mistake about the lylo likeliness. I did not think about whether or not it was possible for us to be in lylo when I first attacked him for the "we" slip. I was most interested in pointing it out quickly and with certainty to gauge his response. As for other responses to the whole thing, I find Zepher's #934 to be especially troubling.
I'd also like to note that my top three choices all avoided empking wagon (with kunkstar being completely absent from even discussion about it)
Chair wrote:I've explained why he's scum. 754 had my primary case (so far) on him. There was also more in 869 and 873. He never responded to any of these.
Well let's fix that, shall we?
Chair #754 wrote:Looking at kanye's ISO, he looks scummy to me. Posts 97-98 look manufactured. The attack on Ethos in 318 just feels bad... like a lame excuse to jump on a wagon. The reasons for attacking Ethos are: 1) sheeping quil's reasoning that Ythan/Ethos aren't both town. This is bad reasoning in the first place... there's no intrinsic reason that any given conflict, even if extended like this, can't be town on town. 2) Backpedaling on the reason that Ethos wasn't posting. So what... this is such a minor point that it's ridiculous to attack him for it. 3) Using meta. There's no reason to think that using meta = scum.
Basically, his voting ethos just looks really bad, wagoning while giving really bad reasons for it. Ethos also brought up some of this, and kanye's 347 responding to ethos's arguments is also pretty weak. None of his responses feel like they actually address the arguments Ethos was making. They feel like kanye is just repeating the arguments that he made originally. For example: when Ethos makes a point that kanye sounds disingenuous and that he shouldn't be asking ethos to stop making bad arguments if he thinks ethos is scum, kanye doesn't actually respond to either of these points and just continues to say what he was saying before: "i'm going to keep calling you out for using meta," essentially. He isn't answering the questions, he's just repeating rhetoric.
my reasons for voting had nothing to to with quil's reasoning on ythan/ethos. i also was not backpedaling on anything? i was attacking the fact that he gave himself an excuse to stop posting but then did not take it. it was hardly influential in my decision to vote him. the majority of my reasoning for voting ethos was tied up in his interactions with parabollocks and the argument he had with spyrex and ythan, as well as his attempts to constantly use meta. and i do in fact believe that using meta is scummy.
I responded to 869 already. I thought I replied to 873 before I went on V/LA over the 4th but I must not have.
Chair #873 wrote:First paragraph: I don't feel like I was being overdefensive about the hydra point - I was just responding to it. The "others flipping town implicating me" thing was me asking spyrex to clarify something - I wanted to know if he meant that we were just his third strongest scumread, or if there was a specific reason that ethos/para flipping town would cause him to have a scumread on us (i.e. a connection). As for "fake attempts at scumhunting," you calling them fake doesn't make them fake. You haven't explained how anything that we've said looks like "fake scumhunting" to you - and unless you do, your argument is invalid.
@487: how have I not detailed my argument on Spyrex? I explained it in-depth in 415... did you not read that post? did you just ignore it? As for not voting on the suspicion, why if I was scum would I even need to give myself an excuse to not vote spyrex? Why couldn't I, as scum, just vote him and say Misder agreed with me? Why is it a scum behavior to use that to justify not voting Spyrex when as scum I could just as easily have voted him?
@695: essentially, when I was saying that, it was because of Spyrex's playstyle. The way that Spyrex is playing, I feel, will make it easier to read him as the game goes on. His attempt to develop a voting block, for example, will mean more after more people in that voting block have flipped. I also want to see how his reads develop as the game goes on.
@754: Untrod was the scumread that Misder and I had the most agreement about. The list of "more likely scum" was just listing people that weren't in my town list, which is why I went through all of them to get better individual reads. As for "not committing to anything" - this is just a ridiculous accusation.
that post wrote:
So My main scumreads would be kanye, untrod, zepher (but he hasn't posted yet so we'll see), and spyrex. I'm leaving our vote on untrod for now, since misder has a scumread on him and deadline is approaching and there's another vote on him.
I "commit" to scumreads in this line. Again, did you miss this line or ignore it? Also, why should town commit to reads in the first place? The game is constantly shifting with new information every day - why should anyone but scum commit completely to any particular read? Why is there more scum motivation to "not commit" to reads than there is town motivation?
You're right, calling it fake doesn't make it fake. I said that it felt to me like it was fake, that you were doing it for the sake of appearing to want to scum hunt. I admit, this is a very subjective point.
re: 695, I still don't get why you need to point out that a lynch on someone you think is null isn't necessary "today."
re: 754, the important part is this: "claims that empking is leaning town? he then says he would not be against the empking lynch." Your top read is UT, empking is leaning town for you. But you are not opposed to abandoning your top read and making sure you are on the empking wagon. We can happily look at this in retrospect knowing that empking was scum and it makes sense why you would want to make sure you were on a scum wagon if it had to go through.
Your point about "committing" to reads is a bit of a strawman. Not once did I mention anything about that and your attacking and easily refuting my phantom argument doesn't really say much. My main point was that you are setting these reads up and conflicting this way and that but it did not feel like you actually had any interest in pushing any of those reads. My point above re: 754 only aids this. This returns to my point about it feeling like you were fake scumhunting.
As far as the hydra thing goes, I don't like your play for the same reason that I did not like that of Ethos. You can express to us that you have dissent between the heads leaving you free to flip flop to whichever side you want. I agree that reads are an ever changing thing and sticking steadfastly to them is just being obstinate, but the way that you are setting up the dissent between yourself feels manufactured to me.
Chair, could you update us on your reads and where you believe everyone stands?add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Anyone who was neither on that wagon nor strongly protesting it is scummy, yes. Scum wanted the wagon to go through, but it is not a wagon I would like to be on if I were scum.Chair wrote:Why does this matter? Empking was bookied - if anything, I'd expect scum to be more inclined to jump on the wagon since bussing gives towncred, the lynch was inevitable, and they needed it to happen that day or either the bookie would fail or they would have to use another shot of it (depending on how many shots their bookie has). Is it scummy to have not been on the emp wagon?
i did justify why i felt it was fake though. anyways, spyrex elegantly summed it up better than i did. vote town, fos buddy.Chair wrote:If you can't justify why you see it as fake, then your point has no merit. 695: Iirc, someone asked me why I wasn't voting Spyrex. I explained why. 754: first of all, the deadline was fast approaching at that point. As I also explained in that post, Empking is difficult for me to read. I have no idea what you're talking about in "making sure that i was on the empking wagon" - I said I was willing to lynch empking because the deadline was approaching and I think the empking wagon was bigger at that point, and there was also a Yos wagon, and I would have pushed an Emp lynch over a Yos lynch by far. I understand the point you're trying to make, but why if I was trying to keep an option to jump on Emp open would I not have joined his lynch wagon? Isn't it a simpler explanation that it was close to deadline and I wanted to ensure that there would be a lynch?
Here is a question Chair: you have been mentioning spyrex and me as scum together a lot. if i were lynched today and flipped town, would that affect your read on him? vice versa?Chair wrote:At this point, Misder and I feel strongly about kanyescum, so I'm pushing kanye hard. I'll probably be pushing Spyrex fairly hard tomorrow if kanye is lynched.
Chair wrote:Now, anyway, to respond to what you DID say... here, you did represent my argument more accurately. However, your logic is still flawed for two reasons:
1) it assumes that every single person on that list is town.
2) it assumes that I'm scum.
1) is obvious, and I think you'd agree that you're assuming that with this argument. I'd also note that you really haven't justified everyone on that list as being town. In order to justify this, you'd either have to justify individual townreads (which you really haven't done) or just justify it by saying that the whole list is town because i'm scum (in which case, you can't use it as an argument against me as it would be circular).l.,uuuuyyuyhyyyh As for 2), here's how it assumes that I'm scum. Lets say that every single person you listed is, by some chance, town. Then my behavior could be two things:
A) scum - I am, as you said, prodding at it.
B) town - I disagree with you and think that your suggestion was indicative of you being scum, and am voicing my disagreement and opinion.
There is no reason that you have given that it can't be B). Now, your response to this will be something like "but all of the people on the list are town, the scum are going to prod at it and you were prodding the hardest" - well, see subpoint 1). And more than that, scum wouldn't even necessarily prod at it - it's conceivable that scum would just ignore it in the hopes that it would dissipate (if it were all town, which I'm pretty damn sure it isn't) and then attack it if it didn't. There's no reason to assume that my behavior is scum behavior when there's a town motivation for my actions and you haven't explained why the scum motivation is more likely.
1) why is this even an issue? if you agreed with his reads, why does his not explaining them weaken the concept of his town voting block. the rest of this is really great bullshit where you try to disprove his argument by..... side stepping the argument completely and arguing about semantics that dont matter? the fact is, if you actually agreed with his town reads (you said you did) then addressing the voting block that may or may not have materialized should not have been high on your agenda as TOWN. the fact that you did attack it suggests that you felt threatened by the possibility of its existence because you are SCUM.
town++, scumspy has no reason to distance from me when the most likely lynch candidates for today are myself and his primary target.Chair wrote:SpyreX wrote:Kanye is town although I'm starting to get paranoid at him being gone soo much.
Nice, subtle distancing with scum who's about to be lynched.
im a pushover when the argument is "lets lynch conf scum." i did not notice oversoul's 861 before. regardless, i still hold that scum wanted to be nowhere near that wagon.idher wrote:though it bugs me how easily SpyreX convinced him to flip over.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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my mistake, it was mastin who has been throwing out the zepher town reads. dont know why i mixed that up. anyways, i feel that chair scum flip would shed more light on the game than zepher at this point. im going to keep pushing chair for now, but if we can't get more people on board with it i will switch to zepher closer to deadline.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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i originally read ythan as very town, and mastin's initial bits were town as well. rereading his day 2 and day 3 though i'm not sure im prepared to call him super town anymore. he fits my scum criteria of staying off the empking wagon, and defends zepher and claimed he thought there were two scum teams (it was pretty apparent what he meant.) chair scumflip would restore my town faith in him, and im not sure how a zepher scumflip would affect my read on him. for now, hes somewhere between null and town for me.
mastin what are your current reads on chair? what did you mean by "willing to wagon chair"add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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I'm going to have to keep disagreeing with you on this Idher, I am convinced that the majority of scum were in the group of people who were neither on the wagon nor tried to stop it. Also, I am really not seeing anything that makes saporo a better lynch than chair or zepher.
You do remember that SpyreX and I were also trying to deflect that wagon off of UT, right? You also remember that you came in and hammered him without saying anything while we were in the process of trying to move the wagon, right? I guess while we're talking about this, do you have anything to say on that subject?kunkstar wrote:UT is flipped town. Sapo is asking for an alternative lynch on Empking know that a)it wasn't going to happen, which leads to b)free "towncred" for arguing against a townflip when UT flips without necessarily needing to push an alternative wagon, which is win all around for scum considering UT still got lynched.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Also, since we keep quoting that votecount and its hella buggin me,
@Mod: Is there any mistake in this vote count?
Empking (8): SpyreX, Knight of Cydonia, T-Bone, kanyeknowsbest, Yosarian2, Oversoul, Hiraki, saporovirus
As far as I can tell, Hiraki's vote was on Oversoul, and the actual hammer came from Empking. I noticed this during the night, but vote stealer is not on the list of potential roles, it was a lynch anyways, and Hiraki ended up dead so I didn't feel it important to bring up.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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im not sheeping ludi. i have viewed your slot as scummy the entire game, and were i to join your wagon i would obviously explain the full extent of my scumread on you. regardless, as i said before, i find the chair wagon vastly superior.MrZepher wrote:Ludi apparently doesn't have any reason to think I'm scum so Kanye's willingness to sheep sans the vote seems scummy. Will be looking into this.
Îdher wrote:The Chairwagon sucks because:
a.) He was not on the Empwagon and the scum are on the Empwagon
b.) I seriously don't even get what the case on him is supposed to be
The fact that SpyreX is voting him doesn't add to its credibility. Why are you opposed to a Sapo lynch?
-Ether
chairwagon summed up: interaction with empking/ut wagons day1, interaction with the empking wagon day2, attack on a townblock consisting of people he agreed were town, reaction to spyrex's prodding day1.
i am not opposed to a saporo lynch per se. i have him at null right now, and honestly have not reconsidered my read on him today. i suppose i will do that shortly. regardless, i am way more into a chair lynch than anything else.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Chair wrote:kanyeknowsbest wrote:Theres no point in arguing about this now. Lets move on and lynch Chair please.
I honestly shouldn't even need to explain why this is scummy.
i will anyway. We have a week until deadline, or something like that. There are several active wagons (you, us, sapo, zepher are all possible lynches for today). Why would we stop arguing and discussing when we still have so much time left in the day and there are so many possibilities?
i was attempting to steer conversation between my two top town reads away from discussion about our vig. and i am obviously not insisting that we reach a lynch immediately.
this still doesnt fly. empking was basically mod confirmed not vig.Chair wrote:assuming that this is directed at me - the issue is that I have a town motivation for this as well. I had reason to believe that empking could have been town, which i've explained - however, I didn't have an explicit town read on him. I thought it would be fine to lynch someone else and give him a second chance, but I didn't have any reason not to lynch him either seeing as he was, of course, likely to be scum.
Chair wrote:"vote town, fos buddy" is well and good, but only if the voter/foser in question has flipped. You can't use it to determine that person's alignment. Why? Well, simple. Town members don't know other peoples' alignments. So it's completely possible - in fact, it's bound to happen to some town members at some points in the game - that they will vote someone who is town and fos someone who is scum. If there's a deceased scum who happened to vote one person and fos another, it's a perfectly reasonable tell to use - but it can't be used to discern MY alignment.
yes it can.
Chair wrote:Actually, I did very little in the way of attacking the block itself relatively to attacking SpyreX. If spyrex had explained why each of the people in the block were town with reasonable explanations, I wouldn't have found it scummy of spyrex.
Chair wrote:Ythan, I understand why he's on there. Spyrex, it makes sense to put oneself on there. Hiraki, I also understand. But knight, t-bone and kanye? I can understand townreads on these people - but it seems like spyrex has ridiculously strong townreads on them for this point in the game. Especially t-bone and kanye. I also just kind of don't like the proposition of a 6-person voting block when: A, there are plenty of people that still have barely posted; B, it's only a 17-person game and 6 people is 2/3 of a lynch wagon; and C, there's no town reason to have such damn strong town reads on these people.
Just a reminder, heres your original attack on the town block. oh.... thats weird. it looks like youre attacking the block to me??
Because town was more than happy to oblige them and push it through.Chair wrote:kanye wrote:I'm going to have to keep disagreeing with you on this Idher, I am convinced that the majority of scum were in the group of people who were neither on the wagon nor tried to stop it. Also, I am really not seeing anything that makes saporo a better lynch than chair or zepher.
Why do you continue to assert this even after it's been explained that the scumhadto have the wagon go through that day?add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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i think a sapo lynch isn't bad, but i would still much rather a chair lynch. i think our accusations have solid ground and i think it would tell us a lot more than a sapo lynch would. also v/la is no reason to hold off on a wagon when we have this much back and forth established already.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Chair wrote:note: i explained why i moved our vote (kanye wagon stalling, no one voting you, idher's reasoning makes sense). To criticize me for not mentioning it in a specific line of my post, especially considering that that line began with "by the way" implying it was unrelated to my vote is reaching.
If you had, idk, said "Chair is sheeping Îdher" and criticized me for that, then sure, that'd be a justifiable attack. But attacking me for what you attacked me for is not. It's plain reaching.
-implosion
i love it every single time chair dismisses and sidesteps valid points and claims "youre not allowed to do that or use that reasoning."
GUYS I REALLY WANT TO LYNCH CHAIRadd me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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imho youre really reachin here spy. idher is town. and theres definitely scum on the wagon (chair) but i doubt its bookied. if theres a bookie shot in play today then its on me given how quickly i got halfway to lynch, but i doubt even that given how little effort went into keeping the wagon alive. zepher wagon was mega lazy too, and sapo took too long for me to believe it was bookie influenced.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Oversoul wrote:I don't like Spyrex trying to push people back on the Chair wagon it feels a little bit like a booky.
Also, Amrun's father had a heart attack recently so she said her commitment to MafiaScum would be spotty at best.
no way chair is bookied. the resistance to his wagon leads me to believe there is not a heavy scum presence on it. also if spyscum had him bookied, smart scum would have abandoned this wagon long ago. its suicide for scum to push a bookied target this hard.
Chair wrote:SpyreX wrote:So, what is this mythical setup where a.) I'm scum and b.) I'm going to lock and load on you without a bookie and c.) I'd be overruled by teammates?
It's called pushing a mislynch. There's no rule that the bookie, if 2+-shot, has to target someone every night. I don't even know what you mean by being overruled by teammates.
there is absolutely zero reason for scum to push a mislynch on you so hard, when there was far more support for sapo or zephyr. assume that spyrex and i are both scum: why the hell would we choose you to target when there has been little suspicion cast in your direction aside from our own? why not pick someone that others have expressed at least minimal suspicion in?add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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Lady Lambdadelta wrote:kanyeknowsbest wrote:Chair wrote:As for the point about ending the night early, it may bear some weight, but assuming that night ending early = no outstanding actions is in essence an attempt to outguess the mod. He said that the reason would be that he wasn't going to be here, so there's no reason that he wouldn't assume action not received yet = no action.
yes but when the mod says you have 72 hours to submit your night action, theres something very wrong when he arbitrarily cuts that time short before you have submitted your action. i do not believe that reck would do something like this.
@spyrex alright! im down.
unvote, vote: empking
Here's your scum with knowledge of the bookie shot.
@Kanye: The bookie shot was brought up that day as a legitimate concern. Why did you leave your fairly constant vote on Chair to vote this wagon, even with the potential for a bookie?
he was scum. the goal of the game is to lynch scum and there was no way in hell anyone was lynching chair over empking yesterday. yes, i initially resisted due to the threat of a bookie, but the lure of lynching scum was too strong. also you just called me scum for lynching scum, fyi.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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that quote is in response to oversouls argument re: bussing. fyi. also one dead scum is as good as another dead scum. empking was conf scum and chair was not getting lynched yesterday. i will emphatically say that empking was a better lynch yesterday than chair due to its viability. and if i didnt REALLY think chair was scum i would not be putting this much effort into pushing his wagon. im more certain now than ever that hes scum due to the resistance his wagon is getting.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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btw from my pov chair is conf scum now. if he was town then scum would have made excuses to get on the wagon by now as a town flipped chair would be disastrous for spy and i as the primary proponents of that wagon. hell, if they have more it would set up a bookie shot perfectly too.add me on snapchat and vine and twitter and instagram : ]-
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