NY 161: Overly-Posh Mafia (POSH WIN - NIGHT X)

[I Am Innocent]

Boner Police is 100% Town. For Certain.

100% Confident? On page 2 no less.

vote: JacobSavage

[I Am Innocent]

Vote Mozamis, read his ISO it's pretty funny

Am I supposed to be all WOW and then vote him as I read his ISO?

I wasn't that wow'ed tbh.

It pretty much sucked the first time through, why would I read it again?

[I Am Innocent]

Although I do agree with your thing about his opening post, I don't think his snarkiness is a scumtell

ok fine ur town

yw

you wish???

[I Am Innocent]

I have no friends, family, or even a pet. Mafia is all I have keeping me alive, it's a sad story

Get some girl scout cookies. They make me happy.

[I Am Innocent]

Re Nero post 165 "We are killing Bitmap today. Make it so. vote:Bitmap" What, no love for me???

Ah Jacob, funny guy (post 173) "It turns out vote by PMing the Mod fyi." How bout contributing to the game pal?

Lol at Boner, post 219 "I have those and chkflip, and I am innocent was but I'm becoming iffy on that after a reread. He just seems so damn innocent" It was the girl scout cookie comment, wasn't it?

Lord's 282 was bad. And that is an understatement.

Boner is town, no way do scum

have

post 8 town (town town) reads by post 315

Lol at mollie for giving moz a town read in 327.

@mollie, re 333 "moziperson is obvconftown and has no idea how to act. also wagon speed. and look who was on it" how was moz acting, and who on the wagon are you referring too? (I see in 335 u list penguin and hero as scum, yet hero has not voted for mozi....so one scummy person on the wagon makes you think mozi is town?) Also, just noticed the speed of the wagon is 4 votes at this time, lol...

Noting Moz's same questions to mollie in 385. Not sure what this means yet.

Followed by a terrible vote in 387 by moz for penguin

Majiffy and Hero's followup posts to maz are right along with my thinking. town points

@Moz, what specifically about PV's and Rob's case on penguin looked good to you?

Om's 424 is bad too. Wouldn't you know he is joking?

@Vifam, what about moz's 399 did you specifically like?

If Moz flips scum, I would look at mollie (see above) and vifam (see 471 & 472).

@mollie, you say you like moz's questioning of your read, but that was AFTER you gave him a conftown read. What happened before that which made you give him that read. Also, you say ""act" as in behave not pretend." Does that mean that moz needs to behave, and not pretend, since earlier you said moz "has no idea how to act"

@moz's post 540, there is an ongoing game that I (and majiffy and PV and AJtheE) cannot talk about, but let's just say it would make sense if someone had fake vigged a claim in there which outted a real town vig in that one...all hypothetical of course. In other words, I could see why AJ would be concerned.

People I wouldn't mind seeing lynched today: Mollie, Moz, Om, Lord, Jacob, probably in that order

unvote Jacob
vote pirate mollie

[I Am Innocent]

Moz's post 565 makes me feel even worse about his slot.

Mollie, I just read 566 where you say moz's posts SEEMED town to you. How about some examples with specific posts? What did you think about Moz's 565 that I just referenced.

Reading Jacob's 583 my instinct is telling me he is playing too awful to be scum.

Note to self, meta Jacob

Jacob starting the Lord wagon comes off as a townie move (606)

Jacob, not sure what you wrote in 609, but don't do that crap again.

@Majiffy, re your question in 628 "everyone voting Mollie under the premise of her interactions with Mozamis; Why not just vote Mozamis?" I think while both may be scum, if only one is, it would likely be the one who called the other obvconftown. (possibly looking for town cred for staying off a mislynch)

@underachievers,

why Josh Lyman?

(nevermind, saw your reason. But while I have your attention, who is your #1 scum suspect?)

Possible connection between Lord and penguin in 674.

@moz, re 712. you say you are town. do you find it at all suspicious that while so many people suspected/voted you, that one player calls you obvconftown? No red flags for you???

moz 713/714 are bad

and the vote by moz on Josh Lyman in 717 wreaks of scum avoiding any confrontation.

*******************

New scum list (Jacob removed): Mollie, Moz, Om, Lord

[I Am Innocent]

Looked up 2 of Jacob's games, one ongoing, one ended, and he does seem much more active in those.

@Jacob, why is your activity level so low here?

@Nero, mollie, majiffy, and chkflip, you have either modded or played in games recently with Jacob. What is your thought on his play so far this game?

[I Am Innocent]

@Majiffy, re your question in 628 "everyone voting Mollie under the premise of her interactions with Mozamis; Why not just vote Mozamis?" I think while both may be scum, if only one is, it would likely be the one who called the other obvconftown. (possibly looking for town cred for staying off a mislynch)

Not mollie's style as scum.

How confident are you that she is town?

[I Am Innocent]

@Mollie, who are the 4 scummiest players in your eyes?

[I Am Innocent]

Like so terrible I have to relook at that slot

Mollie is suspect, Majiffy has not voted her and has 20 games experience with her, why should I not ask him to go on record with his read?

IAI I want a full reads list right now

Sure no prob.

Town: IAI, Hero, Vifam, Matt, Majiffy, chkflip

Lean Town: Bitmap, AJtheE, zab

Null: PV, Bork, Josh, Jacob, TheRev, underachievers, penguin, uber

Scummy: Mollie, Moz, Om, Lord

[I Am Innocent]

his thoughts mirrored my own at the time.

Can you give me specific examples by quoting some of moz's posts?

[I Am Innocent]

OOOHHH really, do these 4 players have 20 games of experience with JS?

No idea. I just said in the other post that I only looked into 2 of JS's games. But if I saw someone derping around this game that appeared competent in another game I played with them, I'd be suspicious. Yet Jacob only has received 2 votes this whole game, one by me.

Why do you ask these useless questions?

Sorry if you feel they are useless. Every question I ask there is a reason for it. Do you think it is bad to ask players to take stances? I'm guessing not since you yourself has put out multiple lists of your read on every player. But we have some who refuse to do so. We got one (moz) who says, all the high post count players are town and lurkers are scum. You got another (mollie) who says my wagon is too big to do any scumhunting. (BTW, your wagon is at 4 girl....L-7 ain't big) And the list goes on and on.

Why the **** do you care?

Because I haven't seen a scum read from her. Her vote sits on Jacob, yet she does not even push that wagon. Yes, I want stances. If that is useless, well then sue me.

[I Am Innocent]

his thoughts mirrored my own at the time.

Can you give me specific examples by quoting some of moz's posts?

this is in reference to the post you quoted? how is this not clear?

What posts of Moz's (post numbers please) had thoughts of his that mirrored your thoughts.

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry if you feel they are useless. Every question I ask there is a reason for it. Do you think it is bad to ask players to take stances? I'm guessing not since you yourself has put out multiple lists of your read on every player. But we have some who refuse to do so. We got one (moz) who says, all the high post count players are town and lurkers are scum.

You got another (mollie) who says my wagon is too big to do any scumhunting. (BTW, your wagon is at 4 girl....L-7 ain't big) And the list goes on and on

.

erm...where did I say that? and when I said that I think 7 or 8 votes on me at the time

So now that the pressure is gone, who is scum?

[I Am Innocent]

You know why I can't answer that question, right?

Just realized...I'm a friggin idiot, sorry.

[I Am Innocent]

I am strongly considering a IAI wagon

thoughts?

Against it.

VOTE: I Am Innocent

I'll give you a hint, put together 8 scenarios with me, Mollie, and Lord each as scum/town. See if any of them makes sense with your so called case.

When you realize that none of them do, ask yourself if it now makes sense it is likely that I was being sincere in my push for stances.

When you realize that is the case, I will accept your apology, along with your vote on Mollie alongside with me. Deal?

[I Am Innocent]

Picking up prod. Expect a catchup post in the next 24 hrs...most likely in the next 2, unless my wife wears me out after we get the kids to bed.

[I Am Innocent]

@Matt, please explain in 804 "IAI has been doing similar things to Mhork, with added on [crap]" Please explain the added on crap, as well as the similar things.

@mollie, re 806, you said in 741 "I haven't where to put my vote cos I am still trying to figure things out. usually when there is a dumb wagon on me I freeze. it is hard to play the game a defense perspective." To me that sounded like an excuse not to scumhunt. And when the wagon shrunk and you still need not put out scum reads, that solidified my read on you (along with your obvconftown of moz while everyone else was questioning him).

Holy cow, moz is defending me now...

bork's 811 is townie

Mollie's buddying to matt in 820 is noted.

Nice OMGUS by mollie in 870.

Jacob's 908 is bad.

penguin gets town points for 918

Jacob, welcome to my top 2.

moz gets town points for seeing thru Jacob's poor play (993)

ActionDan gets town points for the same reason (996)

Nero, was that you posting in 1002? Weren't you the one in the signup thread that had the bankable deadlines explained to you by the mod? If so, why do you appear to still not get it? "But you want to hurry up the day and go into 4 day deadlines were it'll be quicklynches and most likely mislynches"

Matt's play on page 41 is just getting bad. Well there is potential like 1012, but he never follows up on this stuff.

Page 42 and Matt is now talking meta. Weren't you the one dismissing that earlier in the game?

Drum roll please...mollie (finally) in 1052 "gonna post a list of my reads in a a bit" (not overly impressed by what I saw in 1054, but still we have something on record)

@chkflip, love to see the meta you are referring to in 1053

Dude, another crappy post (1058)

Jacob, your top 4 suspects ASAP

.

Penguin, falling in love with you in 1064 (please don't tell my wife)

Action Dan, the math is off in 1086. Conditional probabilities: .9 * .95 + .1 * .60 = .915. Lol, higher pct than he said of myself (.90)....still sure I'm the right lynch today Matt???

Interesting that Matt includes Jacob on his 1095 scum list. Let's test that theory:

unvote Mollie
vote Jacob

Thoughts on the Matt push for IAI wagon:

Matt is right, my wagon not growing is a bit shady. Knowing my alignment, I know that something else is up. My guess is that the Bankable hrs is something scum are trying to whittle away as quick as possible.

Also, 4 votes were thrown at me. All four coincidentally came from Lord's wagon, the shadiest being Jacob's. If Lord was really scum, I would think that some scum would be on the counterwagon (Mollies) and would have sheeped Matt. But none did. I believe Lord to be town because of this. It also makes me wary of Mollie.

It needs to be Mollie or Jacob today.

[I Am Innocent]

I think this is correct Arc

TheUnderachivers - 7 [L-3] Aj the Epic, Vifam, Herobrine, borkjerfkin, zabriel, Majiffy, chkflip, JacobSavage
JacobSavage 4 [L-6] ActionDan, pengiun_alien, I Am Innocent, Moz, TheUnderachivers
UberNinja - 2 [L-9] pirate mollie, PeregrineV
pirate mollie - 1 [L-10] Lord Mhork
Lord Mhork - 1 [L-10] Bitmap
chkflip 1 [L-10] UberNinja
Herobrine 1 [L-10] TheReverend
I Am Innocent - 1 [L-10] MattP

Everyone needs to get off thier vanity wagons and vote for JS.

This is what I have, but you have 8 votes and Jacob has 5.

Anyone not on the Jacob wagon, please ISO him and then get back to me with your read. Appreciate that.

[I Am Innocent]

Why is #908 bad (your words)? I thought his explanation made sense in the context of bankable deadlines.

Because he does not even care if there is a case or not, he just wants to know if it is a serious wagon he is going to jump on or not.

[I Am Innocent]

p-edit: @IAI -- I don't see any evidence of that in #908 -- he's obviously playing the "I'm sheeping MattP" card, which I still call null.

Do you call it null that he has called ZERO people scummy this game? The only read he gave was on like page 2 when he said Boner is 100% town. THE ONLY READ.

Sheeping someone is null, but sheeping someone and producing 0 scumhunting and 0 list of reads is scummy.

Because Im also getting my own reads.

How's that coming? Because I asked for it like 60 posts earlier and am still waiting:

...

Jacob, your top 4 suspects ASAP

...

[I Am Innocent]

So why do you think I am scum?

[I Am Innocent]

@AP, just read your intro post and not one mention of any player interaction with underachievers in any of your reads? Come on man, seriously?

With regards to your question, no I see absolutely nothing scummy about a player asking another player for a list of the top 4 scummiest players. I did the same thing later to Jacob too. Do you find it scummy?

@Matt, you continue to hide behind this wagon of one of mine that you refuse to provide a case for. I want 3 other scum reads from you, and reasons for those scum reads.

@AP, you list Jacob as a leaning scum read in your first wagon and when a town and null read of yours votes for him, you call it a crappy wagon in 1511?

Please do explain.

Nevermind I see you sort of explain in 1516. Re that post, why wouldn't people who ended the day on the counterwagon to UA that seemed to stall still vote that person today?

Need to finish catching up later, but Jacob needs to die today.

vote JacobSavage

[I Am Innocent]

Will use my lunch hour to do some catching up today.

[I Am Innocent]

@AP, re 1574, when I am town and replace into a game post X number of flips, I make sure to note those flips as I do my reread. That way I have X+1 known player alignments that I have to work with. I would have been looking to see who subtly got on the UA wagon, maybe who pushed it the hardest with maybe little reasoning. Saw none of that of from you, which I found strange personally. Have I drawn any conclusions? I am having a hard enough time keeping up let alone enough time to go back and read how that all went down. What I do remember is that Jacob hinted at sheeping matt onto the wagon, but I don't believe he finally committed until his own wagon took off and he became a viable lynch candidate.

Along with the lurking/not contributing, his last 3 votes were on Lord, myself, and UA. Two of those alignments I know to be town, and the 3rd I feel very strongly about or else my wagon would have taken off more than it did.

@AP, re 1575, asking for scum list is something I do as town, and mimic as scum to avoid producing a scumtell. In the switchboard, a quick iso shows I asked Toasty, absta, and by 296, I asked everyone who is still alive.

@Zabriel, you vote for me in 1595 stating "I would not mind picking up the IaI wagon again." I do not see you calling me scum, but you use your vote to join a wagon of one? Are you implying you did not have any scum reads at that time?

PV, in 1560, you say you're iso'ing me. Then in 1671 you say I'm probably scum. But no case. Something's not lining up, can you help figure it out?

@AP, why isn't Jacob on your compromise list in 1749?

@Jacob, why haven't you voted today? You were all about the bankable hrs D1?

At this point I'd be hard pressed to get off of Jacob. Possibly Zab, who also sheeped Matt yesterday from Lord to me to UA.

[I Am Innocent]

Hey dipstick, look at wiki and u'll see more people listed under gunsmith. Now look at my 1st post this game, the 1st letter of the 1st 3 words.

Investigated mollie n1, she is town. Thought Jacob would be an easy lynch today, if he isn't i will investigate him tonight.

Nice job outting the cop.

[I Am Innocent]

Typing from my phone which I hate so this is the best u get for now

[I Am Innocent]

Yes, but its more ridiculous to assume that IaI/Matt are town.

IaI decided to out his PR (which is the strongest in the game) in a mere 17 minute span after a lurkaderp bull****ter claimed a GS on him? Who does that? Add in the fact that Matt had already faked a bs daycop on OotN and IaI isnt even REMOTELY suspicious?

He just claims cop? What if Matt was town and faking? What if Matt was scum and faking?

IaI is either seriously bad at this game, or is mafia

Screw you buddy.

Dude I am the cop. Like you said, the strongest in the game. You said earlier town IAI wouldn't sit back and just be tunnelled, but can you picture me playing like I did in Switchboard. I got lynched D2 that game.

My hope was to lay low. Somewhat pretend to always be catching up. Truth be told, I follow this game pretty regularly on my phonem hence why I saw what was going down with what I now know was a fake claim. But I hate to post on it, and I keep track of votes on a spreadsheet on my home computer. That is where I do must of my work.

So yeah, when I knew I had somewhere between 4-6 votes already, and votes were piling up on me while I was at work (YOU AP WERE ONE OF THEM.....why weren't you remotely suspicious), I had no choice but to come clean.

Or maybe you think it better I just continue to lay low and have someone hammer without asking for a claim? LIKE DAY ONE???

No, I played the best I could in that situation. To suggest otherwise is scummy.

*********************

No more needing to lay low. I want to spell something out for everyone.

Nobody......let me repeat, NOBODY, has a town read on Jacob. If you do, I'd love to hear it, but I can't remember one person suggesting that this game....90+ odd pages worth.

Yet he continues to be an afterthought. He has not had a wagon greater than 5 votes this game. UA suggested lynching him D2 when he got lynched (1374). The only reason I didn't investigate him last night was because I thought he would be the easier of my 2 suspects to get lynched today so why waste the investigation on him over Mollie.

Boy was I wrong. Even now, Lord is confirmed. No CC on my role. I have cleared Mollie. UA flipped town. That is 4 of the last 5 wagons from D1. The 5th, which stalled at 5......Jacob.

Let's save the hours and vote him off. And if you don't want to, please state why in your next post.

[I Am Innocent]

DONE WITH THIS BEAST

here's how I'm looking for scumreads:
ArcAngel > mozamis > IaI > PeregrineV > AJ the Epic

Hey Nacho, I know it is both your town and scum meta to suspect me every game we play together, but at this point your 'suspicions' are a little ridiculous. The list above sucks, and you are now #2 on my list that I want lynched today, or people I will likely investigate tonight.

But thanx for playing, make sure to pick up your losing prize on the way out the door...

[I Am Innocent]

Jacob Jacob, come out and play....want to see who you vote for next now that I and Lord are off limits....

[I Am Innocent]

Zab, you too....don't think I forgot that you were on the Lord to me to UA jump D1 (ignoring Jacob)

[I Am Innocent]

Zab/JS/Hero's replacement, I want cross reads of the three of you in your next post.

[I Am Innocent]

@Mod, we are suppose to be getting 3 feet of snow up here this weekend. Please treat me as V/LA in case we lose power. If not, I'll be posting.

[I Am Innocent]

Sorry guys...

I investigated Dreams last night

.

Between 1) the certainty that Nacho had that AA9 was scum which felt like inside information, 2) their suspicion of me and not matt after my claim, and 3) the force replace which felt like they got misinformation about another slot (rolecop), I felt Dreams was the best person to investigate. I was shocked that he was picked for the NK over one confirmed town slot and another nearly confirmed slot. I can only assume mafia had inside information or guessed something was up tied to #3 above. Not exactly sure based on the vig flip that would force replace Hero, unless the mod sent the results of an action (my Mollie investigation?) to him by mistake?

What we (okay I) know is that scum 1) did not interfere with my investigating, and 2) they must fear a doctor or watcher in the game because they didn't target me.

Saw the mason comment by Mollie. She ought to be the 2nd confirmed town in everyone's eyes. Since she also knows who the last Mason is, what are everyone's thoughts on if she should make the final call after a lynch is decided on each day, in who I investigate each night, to avoid me wasting an investigation on the last mason? It's not like the scum can interfere with it now that the roleblocker is dead.

[I Am Innocent]

Since she also knows who the last Mason is, what are everyone's thoughts on if she should make the final call after a lynch is decided on each day, in who I investigate each night, to avoid me wasting an investigation on the last mason?

You want mollie to tell you who to investigate? This would be an excellent way for scum to keep picking off your town confirms. Which would be an excellent way for you to remain alive without it being mega suspicious.

So we have two choices:

1) I don't say who I investigate until after it happens. N3 mafia have 2 choices to kill confirmed town, Lord and Mollie. They kill 1 and say I get a town investigation, we start D4 with 2 town confirmed (at least in my eyes)

2) Mollie tells me who to investigate, if town, the scum have 3 choices for kills that night. Waking up D4 we have 2 town confirmed (at least in my eyes)

How are these different other than a) #2 ensures that the Mason doesn't get investigated, which is a waste & b) confirmed town gets a say in who the investigation is, over me who is not confirmed town?

[I Am Innocent]

@Mod, please prod Jacob, I believe it has been 48 hrs

[I Am Innocent]

@Matt, I got a town result back. Nothing mentioned about the person I investigated being dead.

Zab voting the counterwagon to Jacob seals it for me.

vote JacobSavage

I'm willing to bet a few more votes and he'll be in here prior to his V/LA ending...

***********

Saw the counter suggestion of 3 names proposed by Mollie, I am fine with investigating from a small group as well, if that is what the majority thinks.

[I Am Innocent]

(and by majority, I mean Lord and Mollie)

[I Am Innocent]

Why? How can you possibly have a read on that slot? We should demand a force replace if anything.

The guy has placed real (non RVS) votes on three players. So something can be gauged from that (like how 2 are now confirmed town and 1 is the claimed cop). And the way he placed those votes has been scummy as all get out. And when you factor in how his wagon continues to stall, that just furthers my suspicion of him.

So yeah, he is still the best lynch in my mind.

*************

Hey valentine, I see your V/LA ends today. I want a vote from you and your top suspects and why.

[I Am Innocent]

His claim is super legit and definitely not from mafia.

How do you figure? Wouldn't bodyguard be a perfect claim for mafia? 1) I have never played with one, only seen it fake claimed, so not likely to be CC'd right? 2) they could wait until the night flips happen and say oh, I targeted that live player instead.

[I Am Innocent]

His claim is super legit and definitely not from mafia.

How do you figure? Wouldn't bodyguard be a perfect claim for mafia? 1) I have never played with one, only seen it fake claimed, so not likely to be CC'd right? 2) they could wait until the night flips happen and say oh, I targeted that live player instead.

You can just control who I target, but scum is going to target someone else then.

Who did Jacob target n1 and n2?

[I Am Innocent]

And FWIW the mod did not tell me who JacobSavage protected on night 1 and night 2.

My vote stays.

[I Am Innocent]

I find it odd that IAI did ask the mod what actions jacob undertook immediately after reading role pm, it's the first thing I do when replacing in.

Is there a typo or three in here?

[I Am Innocent]

I find it odd that IAI

did

ask the mod what actions jacob undertook immediately after reading role pm, it's the first thing I do when replacing in.

*didn't

I've just smoked a fat spliff.

Keep going with the corrections...

[I Am Innocent]

No, the three part was a joke. But now that you corrected it, we are in agreement.

[I Am Innocent]

SOMEONE probably targeted me N1 then which means I'm maaaybe town just sayin

That's not how a bodyguard works.

[I Am Innocent]

Buldermar, you said your role is compulsive, so what happens if you don't submit a target?

[I Am Innocent]

IAmInnocent, results?

Yeah, Matt is scum.

Vote mattp

[I Am Innocent]

VOTE: IaI

there's not going to be a framer because it's absolutely useless when there's IC + 3 masons.

And this is what I was waiting for. Action Dan came back as scum. I was wondering why scum let me live must be they felt I'd be an easy mislynch after a bus driver or someone interfered.

vote action Dan

I'll explain more tonight when I am home on my computer

[I Am Innocent]

I disagree. Gauging his and a few others reactions was worth the few hrs of bankable time wasted.

[I Am Innocent]

At home now.

Here was my thoughts:

1) Matt's flip put one thought in my head. Bus Driver. I've never played with a framer before, but looking that up on wiki I agree that is also a possibility. With town's power, it does makes sense for one of these two to be in the game actually. I realize now that being obvious with the investigation target was not a good idea.

2) With #1 in mind, I wanted to stay away from the likely targets. I looked at D2 again, where AA9 was lynched, and found ActionDan not voting the entire day. His iso matches his predecessors, both as lurkers. That made me feel uneasy. Add in posts like 1217 "ArcAngel is incredibly town now.", I felt this was the best option as well as one of the least to get switched via a bus driver.

3) Got the investigation back, and saw I was still alive. That made me realize scum must think I would be the easy mislynch today. So I sat back, figuring most, but probably not all of the scum would come after me. My hope was AD would be the one who didn't, which would make catching the rest easier. But he was one of the ones pushing, so I came out immediately with my result at that point.

Those are my thoughts/reasons for doing what I've done. It is basically 1 vs 1 at this pt, if I go today, AD goes tomorrow. If AD goes today, I will be confirmed cop and def NK'd tonight. I do not foresee any add'l protective roles, but at least my death will keep the other confirmed townies alive another day.

[I Am Innocent]

Why would you wait and hope that AD wasn't one of the ones that pushed you, so you could get other scum to nibble, but then come out w/results as soon as AD started pushing?

Well he was the 5th or 6th player to post at that point, and that didn't include myself or Lord. I weighed the value of sitting back to gain more info from the remaining players versus a wagon forming quickly on me and people assuming my result was scum desperation. If AD had defended me, I likely would have sat back a little longer to give a few more people the chance to speak up.

Also how does AD scum result = AD scum? If there's a bus driver, he'd show up town right?

The only way AD is town is if there is a framer and they picked AD*** or if a Bus Driver switched AD with a scum*** (once again, they would pick a town that I am likely to target, the obscurity of this pick makes it unlikely) or if there is some other role that screws with me that I am not aware of.

*** Why wouldn't they pick a town who is heavily suspected versus random AD? The obscurity of my investigation target makes it unlikely that AD is town

[I Am Innocent]

Not you I meant IAI

The Bus Driver is a role that can choose to switch two players each night. Thus, any night action performed on a switched player will affect the other player targeted by the Bus Driver. The Bus Driver's night choices are only valid for that same night.

For example, suppose a Bus Driver switches John and Jack. That same night, a roleblocker tries to block John and a Goon tries to kill Jack. In the end, Jack will be roleblocked and John will be killed.

********************

When I investigated Matt, if a scum bus driver switched Matt with a member of the mafia, I would have gotten a guilty on matt

[I Am Innocent]

When I investigated Matt, if a scum bus driver switched Matt with a member of the mafia, I would have gotten a guilty on matt

Yeah so how does that explain a scum result on ActionDan then

Unless you think Mafia targeted ActionDan via bus driver or framer, which everyone seems to agrees is unlikely, then he really is scum.

[I Am Innocent]

You guys are considering busdrivers. If ANYTHING it's a redirector in the case where IaI is a cop.

You call me scum, but then throw this out there? Why even entertain the idea? Trying to sway the people who believe I am the cop by saying 'yeah I could still be town too'?

IaI basically gave away his reason for picking me as his fake guilty. It's because I was the only one for sure who wasn't thinking he was a cop.

No, it was your lurking. It was you not placing a single vote the day we lynched scum. It was your defense of AA9 as absolute town.

Now that we're on it, why did you not vote D2? And why do you have more posts D4 now that you are under pressure than all of D2?

@To the people saying that I'd be hard to push over other people: the goal here is for IaI to simply take a stab at surviving an extra day. going 1v1 vs the guy that was sure to vote him was his best bet.

Okay, so say scum IAI wants to start off the day by surviving. Why not pick an easy target like the ones mentioned today? Why not start off the day with my Bus Driver theory and vote you right off the bat, rather than sit back?

Or could it be that I am the cop. I crumbed it in post 1. There was no CC. I targeted one of my top 2 targets N1, the one I thought would be harder to lynch. She ended up being a mason. As you can see D2, even before I claimed, I did not suspect pirate one iota. Then came D3 when I asked pirate who to investigate. She included matt in every list, and at one pt only asked for matt in one post. So I did, and my N3 investigation came back guilty. He flips town, which means in my mind, scum tampered with it, likely targeting matt in some way (not a redirector as you are trying to push).

At this point it is you vs me. You continue to argue setups and such, but refuse to point out how I have been scummy outside of matt flipping differently than I said. So please, read the prior paragraph, and show me the scum motivation in my actions. Or motivation in any of my play this game.

[I Am Innocent]

which brings up another thing I am wondering about. why nk mozi and perv before me?

Well in mozi's case, it appears the vig did that one. But yes, outside of myself, you were the next best NK last night, and asking why PV died is a question that is worth looking into.

what do you think of IaI's post after I had just voted dan? to me it looked opportunistic, a totally different vibe than what he had given off before. I just happened to vote the scum he had viewed? and if he was looking at reactions, why did he not wait a little longer? he already had me as town so he could not have been waiting for mine and yet I gave him the impetus to his view? the motivation in that single look stinky as hell but if IaI is scum it means he went into the game preparing to fake claim cop and all I can say is wow.

Yeah I hear you. I don't expect anyone to necessarily believe me, but this is the honest truth. I am a 30 something yr old married man who never had a cell phone before last November (my wife had a 60 min per month phone for emergencies). We went straight to smart phones. One of the benefits to having this is I can check my mafia games at work, which blocks the site. So it is easy to go to the top of my webpage on my phone, and hit the swirly arrow to refresh, and the box at the top that indicates a new page has been started.

Posting on it for a guy who has never texted or anything, not so fun. Which is why most of my posts are in the mornings, lunch time, or evenings. It is why as AP likes to point out, it took 17 mins to get on, respond to matt about being the cop. The other day, I was reading on my phone at work, and saw dan's vote and push on myself so I started responding. I didn't see your post until it showed up in the preview box afterI submitted my response to Dan. Honest truth. Coincidental in hindsight, yeah I could see that. But a 4 minute coincidence none-the-less.

[I Am Innocent]

I haven't been in the game since D1. I got back to school and had shit tons of work to do. I was in 5 games at the time and wasn't contributing much across the board. Didn't vote D2 because I didn't feel like it. I'd have voted MattP Zab or JS but didn't really feel confident so I didn't vote. At the end though after Nacho quoted AA's no lynch post I might have voted it. assumed AA9 was noob before so I thought her reading the thread showed townie effort. Saw no-lynch was like, ok. maybe not.

But yet in 2405, the post after you acknowledged the Nacho quoting AA no lynch, you said "...there's a lot of excitement with the claims but just take it a bit slow for now please. I don't want to rush this day. ty."

Interesting to note in 2305 the vote count had AA9 at 4 votes already and tied for the longest wagon. Losing the Roleblocker with a claim cop, no good right?

Who's an easy target? Maybe it was the guy who's not been active and called AA9 town D2?

Well first of all, you called her town

D1

from what I can tell. And please don't insinuate you were an easy target, by my count, D2 & D3 had 140 total votes cast, only 1 of which ended up on you. So don't go there.

The scum motivation is in claiming to target Matt. Why would a cop target the guy who himself wanted to be targetted.

The second sentence makes it a bold, but smart move then, to be scum and asked to be investigated, right? Would bold correctly describe Matt? WIFOM is what it is called, and hence why I disregarded Matt's request in the final decision to who to investigate.

I already expressed why I targeted Matt. I let Pirate have alot of say, and actually I agreed with her as Matt's play got steadily worse D3.

As for mollie, you didn't talk about her at all one way or the other. And didn't crumb the result at all before the claim.

If I had concern about being NK'd, I would have crumbed it yes. But with Matt pushing me, I thought 1) if Matt was town, scum would allow this conflict to go on so we'd be left alone and 2) if Matt was scum, a NK of me would have put pressure on him the following day, so that wasn't likely either.

[I Am Innocent]

sorry I'm really mad right now and I didn't finish my read-through. there's a lot of excitement with the claims but just take it a bit slow for now please. I don't want to rush this day. ty.

Yeah, looks like AA9 hit 7 votes right before this post by Dan D2.

[I Am Innocent]

something is bugging me...if IaI was so gung ho to listen to requests for views, why did he not listen to me when I asked him to view uber? I made several requests for uber to be viewed cos I don't think anybody except ap and I has the balls to lynch him, really. so his story does not quite add up.

At home now.

Here was my thoughts:

1) Matt's flip put one thought in my head. Bus Driver. I've never played with a framer before, but looking that up on wiki I agree that is also a possibility. With town's power, it does makes sense for one of these two to be in the game actually. I realize now that being obvious with the investigation target was not a good idea.

2) With #1 in mind, I wanted to stay away from the likely targets. I looked at D2 again, where AA9 was lynched, and found ActionDan not voting the entire day. His iso matches his predecessors, both as lurkers. That made me feel uneasy. Add in posts like 1217 "ArcAngel is incredibly town now.", I felt this was the best option as well as one of the least to get switched via a bus driver.

3) Got the investigation back, and saw I was still alive. That made me realize scum must think I would be the easy mislynch today. So I sat back, figuring most, but probably not all of the scum would come after me. My hope was AD would be the one who didn't, which would make catching the rest easier. But he was one of the ones pushing, so I came out immediately with my result at that point.

Those are my thoughts/reasons for doing what I've done. It is basically 1 vs 1 at this pt, if I go today, AD goes tomorrow. If AD goes today, I will be confirmed cop and def NK'd tonight. I do not foresee any add'l protective roles, but at least my death will keep the other confirmed townies alive another day.

.

[I Am Innocent]

2051, AA9 has 0 votes
2305, AA9 has 4 votes (also when Lord was confirmed IC)
2700, AA9 flip announced

Here is all Dan's posts in that timeframe:

so this exploded.

Taking a shower, then sitting down here.

Nacho might be right on AA.

I saw the quoted post with the no lynch vote and I understand why he feels that way.

bak to reading.

sorry I'm really mad right now and I didn't finish my read-through. there's a lot of excitement with the claims but just take it a bit slow for now please. I don't want to rush this day. ty.

Re PereV: This is more gut based. But I really feel like I get PV. His early D1 Bitmap push was such a hard sell...I don't think scum PV would go for that. ITs just too far in left field. I think he actually believed he was on to something. Also I thought him asking AA9 for scummeta seemed fairly proactive for him. Also note he later insisted that he had something with his bitmap push and linked to a game he saw something similar. Hes town.

just like to say that's how I got the strong town-read on that slot

No votes. The entire day. The only day we lynched scum.

Not only no vote, but no accusation, nothing. Just tried to slow things down on the AA9 wagon while defending an earlier town read on that slot. Why would town Dan be so concerned with his earlier read though without highly suspecting AA9 at this point. And if he highly suspected AA9, why no vote. Only conclusion, Dan is scum trying to distance without bussing a roleblocker with a claimed cop out there...

Today he starts off the day attacking the setup. Then when I announce my investigation, he attacks me with a bunch of garbage hoping some of it sticks.

Really the only thing that is against me is the Matt investigation that I now know was tampered. To be honest, I can't fault anyone for not believing me. But why would scum IAI play this day the way I did. Why not come out swinging. Why not pick an easier target than I did, someone with 1 total vote post D1.

The only explanation is that I am the cop and that scum guessed correctly that I would investigate Matt. But I don't think they guessed right last night. As soon as Dan got to L-1, you know where he went with me. Trying to get my reads, which tells me he likely isn't the scum framer, but trying to get as much information for the framer. Well I'm not biting. If I survive this day, I will not give them any hints, I will force them to kill me once and for all.

At the end of the day, assuming this isn't MyLo which I really don't believe, this lynch doesn't matter as much as people are making. We're going to get scum, the only difference is how many confirmed town we start D6 with. So everyone not named AP, please reread Dan's Iso and ask if he seems scum. Ask yourself if IAI was scum, does his play make sense today. And don't let the paranoia get to you. You do those 3 things, and we'll get scum today.

[I Am Innocent]

Dan why didn't you vote AA9 D2?

[I Am Innocent]

Didn't Dan attack you BEFORE you claimed results? IIRC, he was voting you before you announced results.

Voting me, yes. Attacking me, no. He attacked the setup, not me. That did not come until after my result came out:

VOTE: IaI

there's not going to be a framer because it's absolutely useless when there's IC + 3 masons.

Why not come out swinging?? You claimed a GUILTY on a WEAK PLAYER (Sorry Dan, but you have been lurking and had a fair amount of suspicion on you, so ya I stick by that). In what way did you not "come out swinging"?

See #3 below.

At home now.

Here was my thoughts:

1) Matt's flip put one thought in my head. Bus Driver. I've never played with a framer before, but looking that up on wiki I agree that is also a possibility. With town's power, it does makes sense for one of these two to be in the game actually. I realize now that being obvious with the investigation target was not a good idea.

2) With #1 in mind, I wanted to stay away from the likely targets. I looked at D2 again, where AA9 was lynched, and found ActionDan not voting the entire day. His iso matches his predecessors, both as lurkers. That made me feel uneasy. Add in posts like 1217 "ArcAngel is incredibly town now.", I felt this was the best option as well as one of the least to get switched via a bus driver.

3) Got the investigation back, and saw I was still alive. That made me realize scum must think I would be the easy mislynch today. So I sat back, figuring most, but probably not all of the scum would come after me. My hope was AD would be the one who didn't, which would make catching the rest easier. But he was one of the ones pushing, so I came out immediately with my result at that point.

Those are my thoughts/reasons for doing what I've done. It is basically 1 vs 1 at this pt, if I go today, AD goes tomorrow. If AD goes today, I will be confirmed cop and def NK'd tonight. I do not foresee any add'l protective roles, but at least my death will keep the other confirmed townies alive another day.

[I Am Innocent]

GG scum, well played.

[I Am Innocent]

Good game to my team. And thanks for not wasting a kill on me.

I knew the scum team and their roles. I knew they couldn't kill me, so unless there was a vig/SK, I was safe at night. To make sure I was safe during the day, I planted a cop crumb. Figured if there was a cop, I'd take him down with me, if not, I'd hide behind Nom/AA9's roleblock. Which really screwed things up for me when right after I claim, an AA9 wagon takes off and bam, dead JK...

N2, I went back and thought Hero was the cop, both based on the force replace and him not believing me. So I was going to start off D3 by claiming scum right away on Hero. But his death changed that, so I figured I try to go with plan b, saying I investigated hero but he flipped dead town.

D4 was my favorite. Paybacks to matt. Highlight of the game right there for me, even more than the surprising mislynch of Dan (and sorry Dan, you were the easiest target to mislynch D5 despite your belief you weren't....)

Other favorite part was when Matt apologized for outting the cop. I laughed so hard at you feeling bad, though it only lasted like 1/2 a day.

Like I said, my goal was to go with the cop, and I think I did a good job of making it believable. Heck even AP didn't vote me D5, and say what you will about most of the town at that pt, he is a solid town player.

And mollie, I heart you. I really do think we think alot alike as players. You are one of the people in this game that I would most like to play with again.

Oh and Nero, thank goodness you died D1. You always nail me when I am scum....

[I Am Innocent]

Yeah I hear you. I don't expect anyone to necessarily believe me, but this is the honest truth. I am a 30 something yr old married man who never had a cell phone before last November (my wife had a 60 min per month phone for emergencies). We went straight to smart phones. One of the benefits to having this is I can check my mafia games at work, which blocks the site. So it is easy to go to the top of my webpage on my phone, and hit the swirly arrow to refresh, and the box at the top that indicates a new page has been started.

Posting on it for a guy who has never texted or anything, not so fun. Which is why most of my posts are in the mornings, lunch time, or evenings. It is why as AP likes to point out, it took 17 mins to get on, respond to matt about being the cop. The other day, I was reading on my phone at work, and saw dan's vote and push on myself so I started responding. I didn't see your post until it showed up in the preview box afterI submitted my response to Dan. Honest truth. Coincidental in hindsight, yeah I could see that. But a 4 minute coincidence none-the-less.

And for the record Mollie and all, this post was 100% true.

[I Am Innocent]

Like I said, my goal was to go with the cop, and I think I did a good job of making it believable. Heck even AP didn't vote me D5, and say what you will about most of the town at that pt, he is a solid town player.

You were damn lucky you just so happened to prepare for a cop claim, which would counterract a gunsmith

Luck had nothing to do with it...

[I Am Innocent]

Like I said, my goal was to go with the cop, and I think I did a good job of making it believable. Heck even AP didn't vote me D5, and say what you will about most of the town at that pt, he is a solid town player.

You were damn lucky you just so happened to prepare for a cop claim, which would counterract a gunsmith

yeah there was luck involved with that for sure, but he took advantage of the preparation he had already laid

and then he got both you and AD lynched with a ridiculous amount of swagger

therefore he is the scum MVP in my eyes

hiding in plain sight.... you clever mother ****er, IAI

Best part was that I was trying not to leave clues back to me team, so I think I only ever voted two people (Jacob & Mollie) until my two scum investigations D4 & D5...lol

[I Am Innocent]

and ya IaI, I did know I was the easiest. I tried my best to argue that.

Seriously though I had you dead to rights.

Not gonna lie, I was sweating it a little that day...