NY 163: Void Mountain of the Nightless Temple (Game Over)
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Yeah, I meant since, you know, Metal Sonic and all. Anyway, we really need to stop starting the game out like this. Metal should be mainly in charge of the Hydra, I'll post if I see anything important, otherwise, I'm gonna try and focus on my other games.
How can there be any debate about if a Hydra trying to be anonymous should be pressured or not? Unless I missed something, the more information available, the more it helps the village. Also, while I tend to support policy lynches, policy lynching over a self-vote seems kinda . . . meh.
~KX-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Also, obviously it's a huge over-explanation, but isn't an explanation better then nothing, and even if it wasn't, how is it anti-town? Do think the suspicion is pretty damn weak though.
@TheUnderachivers, how exactly does Meta not apply to a Hydra? And as far as I know, the village has more to gain since it gives them a sense of playstyle and conpetancy, while scum doesn't gain that much, the person remains a threat, nothing more and nothing less. If they're a nube, and known to be like that, scum loses the chance to run a vote against them, and if they're compitant, that should be apparent regardless of meta. ~KX
@BT/HD, didn't you read my last post?-
-
Metal Overlord
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Also, another thing I wanted to add, since even a single player won't play the same in two games (probably) I would think Meta would be better then nothing, and accomplish the point of letting you know something so that the player isn't a blank sheet. Also, with two people in the same Hydra posting without distinction, how the hell is that pro-town? As far as I can tell, all it would do is make getting a read harder and make differences and slips explanable. ~KX-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
@AA, just a sense of how somebody plays. If somebody plays noticeable different between scum and village, but you don't know they're that player, it obviously helps them only as scum. Meta is far from the best thing to go off of, but I find knowing it to be preferable to the opposite. It also makes it so you don't have to play with a person for a while to get a sense of how they play.
@Under, what you say is true if the person is town, however, consider if the person were to be scum. In that case, it's much better for the town to be able to read them. If you have two people posting as one person, unseparated, it means that posting style, and possibly even views or opinions could change between the two. As scum, some things that might be done would be disguised by this. If the two people can post exactly the same, and make sure they have completely congruent opinions, then yes, I agree with you, but I don't believe that could be maintained perfectly.-
-
Metal Overlord
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
MS:
In post 158, Ms Marangal wrote:holy fuck, large games have a shit load of activity :<
I skimmed through these 7 pages
and I'm not liking Underachievers at all
nor am I liking Robo, I mean, how is Apathy a town-tell when you are always Apathetic?
My opinion is that bulbazak's outburst seems pretty town-ish to me. His self-vote is disputable and honestly in my opinion rather useless, but if he believes it grants him some information then I don't think its a problem. He has been rather willing to share this info with us and explaining that he finds BT and Robo clean thanks to his maneuver. Unless he is withholding information on purpose(like that other hydra over there) I don't think it would be nice to capitalise on him.
I believe that we can start out with some policy lynch first then gradually and slowly narrow down the scum. My other head has been more active(I think) thanks to his better timezone (I am nocturnal he is Day xD) and I had a lot to read so I don't have any super strong opinions on who is and who isn't definite lynch targets. Perhaps I could read more into the way the other hydra(forgot his name x.x) who does not like sharing which head posts in order to define him a town or scum read, but until then yea thats all from this other head.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
MS:
I just checked here for activity, and although there have been a good number of posts since my last post, I am disappointed in the lack of quality of them. Keybladewielder WTF?
Not much of thoughts to post, considering I tl;dr'd the long ones and the short ones were full of bullshit.
I advocate a policy lynch, but question is who?-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Ok, just finished reading the thread over, will move onto ISOs in a second for more accurate reads, but so far Under and Antilles are seeming scummy, though a decent part of that is simply because of the position on anonymous Hydras. This isn't an anonymous game, if it were, I have no problems, however, it isn't, so get with the program. Titan leas scum slightly, but I could easily see them coming back. HD is definitely town, could just be since I got him lynched ftl in my last game, but I doubt it. BT, Robo, and AA also seem to be town, but I'd like to see more from the latter and Klick. I believe everybody else reads neutral, or at least I didn't notice anything in particular, including with TAM. From what I understand, it's a playstyle, and while unlikely, it is possible to just not have opinions. Perhaps the ISO will say differently?
@Mod, I unvoted HD long, long ago, and changed to Under.
I am strongly in favor of Policy lynches. To me, if you have the time for it, a policy lynch should be a way to hit the people who are hard to read, and who you wouldn't be able to tell normally. You eliminate them, provided nobody else seems to be scum more then them, on the off chance that they are scum. However, in this game, outside of Key, TAM, or Antilles, I don't see any options, and aside from Key, I don't think any options are really good.
Also, on a final note, LOL at my other head complaining about quality. You're not one to talk, shush.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Antilles: Wow, post more, like, a lot more, and claim pl0x. I mean, I suppose the few posts you have aren't that bad, but the style seems that of a person who'd talk a lot more. Also, I really dislike the part about you not claiming heads. Scum lean for now.
ArcAngle: Still seems town as before. They make sense (lol), they pulled the thing with Under off very well, and their points/questions are decent. Once again, some more content would be nice, but I'm saying Town.
BT: Decently active, and they have a couple of good posts, so my town read remains. One thing I'd like to ask though is how their process of thought regarding Bulbazak went, but otherwise looks pretty good, I'd say Town.
Bulbazak: I'm going to be going with a Town read for Bulba here. I found the self vote to be pretty much a null read, and everything else they've done suggests town. They seem to have made good use of the self vote to get information, something which I doubt would have been done if they were scum and faking it to avoid a vote. Also, they took the suspicion in stride, another point towards town.
HD: Town. Nothing more to say here.
Keybladewielder: I think I said this already, but really not much to go on, but what there is is pretty bad. Can't tell if just an extremely bad player or scum, would make a good policy lynch.
Klick: I kinda dislike how twice you mention the same thing with no change it two posts, and that combined with low activity in general, but for the small amount of posts you point out some decent stuff, and this is pretty congruent with how you played in our last game. So Leans Town for now, but post more, alright?
Ms Marangal: Despite saying quite a bit, I'm really not feelings much from them. What they've said is pretty bland, and seems kinda limited in content, with nothing else giving me a particular feeling towards them. I think I'd have to read them as Neutral for now.
OttarHorse: I agree with them on most everything they've said. However, that alone isn't reason to read them town, and considering that what they've said, while not limited to, is mainly about a few particular subjects, I think they could do better. However, I don't see anything particularly pointing towards the contrary, so I'll say Leans Town.
RachMarie: Apparently they're scummy, but I'm not really seeing such. I'm afraid there's really not much to comment on, as I don't gain anything in particular from the majority of their comments. So, I suppose I'll go with a Neutral read for now, but I'd like to see more, as I get a feeling they're town.
ReekUnless I somehow missed it, they've done literally nothing but say that self-voting has no town value, implied RVS is important, and said Bulbazak should be policy lynched. Since I disagree with those things, and because of shear lack of quantity, Leans Scum.
Robocopter87: They haven't really said anything of value, and I disagree with just about everything they've said concerning how the game should be played (which, really, is all they've said with the exception, I believe, of one vote.) For some reason I want to call them Town, however, I have to say based on fact alone, they Lean Scum.
SerraPaladin: While individually his post all look pretty good, and I certainly understand what he says, one specific thing that strikes me is a remark made about that there are things to comment on, following by a relative lack of commenting on things. Also, limited talk about other payers, and limited posts in general, are off-putting. In light of recent posts, the lack of content seems even more noticeable. So Leans Scum.
TheActingMethod: I maintain what was said about them, that they don't ring particularly scummy. More content would, as always, be appreciated, or even a little relevant content if nothing else. Especially if this is a meta thing, and not a tell, I'd like to know if it changes. If so, perhaps pursue better options until that time? So, in light of Meta, I'd say Neutral, though consider for Policy Lynch if it isn't something which changes.
TheUnderachievers: I don't think I like a single post that they've made. I dislike their positions on issues, and find them anti-town at best. It seems like the majority of their posts are worthless, or dealing with hydra, and those that aren't I dislike the content of. Really, if they're competent, I have to say they're scum, and if they aren't, well, why keep them around? I think they could redeem themselves, but it's unlikely. Plus, the whole deal I've already expressed my opinions on . . . yeah Scum.
Titan: I am really disliking them, simply due to quality and style. I assume that the cerulean post was by them? All the same, reading over, I strongly dislike that lack of anything productive starting out, and as it goes on, while there is quite a bit, reading it over, I still find it as though I'm lacking anything detailed about their thoughts. Despite a lot being present, a paragraph long answers in many cases, I feel as though I don't understand they why. Regarding the wall, I did read it, but I left feeling genuinely meh about the content. Perhaps it thing could be simplified? Leans Scum.
This probably would have looked better if I had done it immediately after the last post, but hey, it's my first day of spring break, and I did other stuff, I regret nothing.
@Bulbazak, anything else you'd like to add, or you done? Nothing? Alright, thanks, tell me if there is.
@HD:
Don't ask me, ask him. I have no clue, however, it's true, hence the statement in my first post.MS why are you so bad at this game
Um, actually, the point of the post was to say one night MS approached me and said "Hey, wanna Hydra in this game" and I said yes, provided I don't have to do much. So it's my way of telling everybody else I don't plan on doing much of anything. So the whole point was to say I won't be making any real content. However, following a Sub, a Death, and the lull of inactivity, I now have nothing better to do.This is an "omg I'm contenting" post without any real content
Everything else is so goddamn ignorant I don't regret lynching him as town last game, despite it losing me the game. Also, you said MS was better then me. Those are words to kill over, just saying.
Fucking Hell despite him being my biggest scumread, I really want to vote HD just cause. Instead, I think I'll have to
VOTE: Reek
Ordinarily I'd vote The Underachievers once more, but I feel it won't do much of anything now, Key is AFK, so we need to decide if we policy lynch or not, TAM has enough votes on them iirc, and eliminating those options, I think this vote does the most.
P-EDIT: LOL 20 posts between when I started making this post and the thread now.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
MS:
@HD
My post was not solely, 1 town read, it was 1 town read + 2 scum reads. I quoted Ms Marangal's post because I agreed with what she said which I quoted: Shit load of activity, Dont like UA, and dont like Robo.
Now stuff I would like to add on:
Antilles and OtterHorse should do better, I believe his is a bad town but if he doesn't step it up we may need to find him scum/policy lynch(see what I am proposing?)
Keybladewielder is also a good candidate for a policy lynch. (He plays worse than me when I play bad! LOL)
I don't feel that Rachmarie is particularly scummy. Put her off fer later. Town-ish for the moment.
Null read on Titan. Sounds good yet bad at the same time. Will put off for later.
The rest of the people are kinda straightforward I guess. HD and BT are most likely town blah blah-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Well obviously it was manufactured, the whole point of it was to keep MS here from being lynched. Also, the question is, based on the reads, what do you assume my alignment is? As for them differing from the original light reads:All of MO's reads are based off of playstyle and not scumtells. It feels manufactured. It looks as if its only purpose is to placate town. Also, those reads do not match his previous post of reads on which I originally questioned him about.
The first was just generally looking over the thread, and what I preliminarily got from those; The point was not to find scum, it was to see how things looked and if anything in particular stuck out. Then I moved on to ISOs, balancing with the context I would have obtained from the thread.Ok, just finished reading the thread over, will move onto ISOs in a second for more accurate readsFirst, says 3 people are scummy. 2 because they support hydra anonymity (translation: Policy Lynch), and Titan for magical reasons. He then ends it with 10 nulls. Seriously, you don't have any opinion on over half the players in the game?! He then says that not having an opinion is okay in a game about thoughts and opinions. And finally, he concludes that policy lynches are the way to go and we should PL the crap out of this game.
Yeah...this guy's scum.
Unvote
Vote Metal Overlord
I don't know about you, but I see absolutely zero question. You have one question mark, but no questions. And, in case you missed it, I didn't say I had null reads, I said people read neutral. It's an important distinction considering I specifically said I planned on posting farther. Also, the post wasn't made to "answer your questions" they were made since the original part was incomplete, and didn't fully accomplish what I wished. You say that my reads seem based more on playstyle then scumslips. I'm sorry, but how does that make them any less valid, at least when I consider content and content quality as part of playstyle? Also, I happened to see any scumslips that could be called such, I believe I pointed them out. On the subject of changing reads, with the exception of Robo, I think my reads actually remained congruent throughout. Forgive me for not making my posts so manufactured that I went back to make sure they matched with all previous ones. As for the neutral reads, sorry if that wasn't made clear, that was for people who nothing specific stood out about upon a brief read through, so effectively consider no reads at all there. Check the second post for actual neutral reads. ~KX-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
@BT
Thank you for proving again that you're self aware. I also like how you think Ant is scummy yet in the former post you didn't want to PL him.
Yeah, remind me, were do I say that I don't want to policy lynch him? In fact, iirc, he's been listed as a possible PL by both heads. And on that, if I've gotten this correctly, Ant is supposed to be pretty competent, so wouldn't lack of activity be ground for a regular lynch and not a policy lynch? Well, whatever it is, I don't see a problem with lynching them, though it seems like more posts from them could make it better.
Thanks for not being a total ass and making something of the mistype. If it's any meta knowledge, me and HD came here from the same site, so know each other somewhat well. Also, isn't this total WIFOM? Anything that leads you to your conclusion, or just gut?Even if you'd said it right (with townread over scumread, is what you meant obviously) this part is dumb as hell and is probably from scum putting *whatever* into their posts just because.
Forgive my ignorance, but were do I say this is meant to be protection? Unless I missed it, it was just me saying that I hadn't planned on playing this game. Also, if you dislike my writing style, well, I'll actually agree with you there. If you mean because of the content, then how so?Have I said before that this protection of your slot is really bad? (different from the mastin/nero thing too because he was talking about himself? didn't read that bad too. this on the other hand...)
Also, you say you're not impressed with the defense, how so?
As for voting me, I'm curious, what do you hope to gain from it? Actual lynch, in which case how to you justify this slot, which has at least given something to go off of, over ones which have done nothing or next to nothing? And if it's simply for pressure, well, k, gl with that.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Oh, yeah, sorry that I didn't mention, this is indeed KX. With regards towards HD, did you even read some of what it said? There was no way to respond to it at all.
Where you basically direct the PL. Makes everything worse when you direct it at the nonexistent dude over two common scumreads with no explanation whatsoever.
By the way, we don't know how competent Ant's slot is. They won't say who they are.
I don't know why I have to keep saying this, but a full reads post was meant to come immediately after that post, so the reads would have explanations. As for directing the PL, were exactly to you get the idea that I have any authority here, or even honestly care who is lynched at all?
I won't try to claim it was meant to be completely serious, but I will be honest, considering some of his reasons, I really do/did want to vote him.Nah, being all "I'm townreading this dude but I really want to vote him anyway" has 0 benefit for town because it just opens options / acts as a derailer, which means it's more likely to come from scum, like I said.
Congratulations, you've got this part completely correct, with the exception of that last part. These posts have been defenses (exception: reads). My goal is to prove that this slot is not scum. To do this, I point out the people I believe to be scum, or at least keep this slot alive until the point comes when those reads can be reasonably assumed not to have been from a scum. And I only correct small details were those details are being somehow misrepresented or misunderstood. As for confronting people, how have these defenses not been confronting people? Admittedly, it does make it a little harder that the people attacking me are my town reads, but hey, I'm doing what I can.I think you're using MS's existence as an excuse to overdefend your slot. Not to mention it's an attempt at making people go easy on you, but yeah. It reads like, well, a defense, where a pure defense is expected to come from scum. You prioritize making your slot look better / keeping MS from being lynched over scumhunting. In #412, just like in your reply to me right now, it's important for you to relieve all suspicion from your slot by correcting every little detail possible and without confronting people that much.
Honestly, no, at this point pressuring seems kinda stupid, two votes and I'm active etc. However, compared to other options, I think my lynch would be really dumb, and so trying to figure out why you're seriously going for it.Are you hopeful that I'm only trying to pressure you? That's cringe-worthy. I think you're scum and you're reading the justification.
I find it highly annoying, at least for the reasons he has, and (though I can't prove it) since I actually am town. I barely addressed HD because what he was saying isn't exactly something I could respond to. Honestly, just look his post towards me over and see if you could respond with anything productive. Compared to you and bulb, I believed I could do something.Basically how do you feel about HD finding you scummy if you two know eachother? You're KX, right? It's kind of funny that you barely replied to HD's post that called out all of your posts but it's so important for you to address everything Bulb and I say.
Looking all these questions over, I believe there are two points I should address. The first is the reads post compared to the post before it. The reason the first post sucks so much is because the full reads post was meant to come directly after it, as a part of it. However, as I was making the post, I got distracted by the internet, and ended up not finishing it until much later. The second is my role in the game. I didn't, and never have intended to play a highly active role in scumhunting this game. As mentioned, MS just randomly asked me one night, so I decided to go along with it. I'll defend as best I can, state opinions, and if I see something extremely scummy or something that's been missed by everybody else, I'll do what I can with it. If you want to policy lynch over that, fine, but at least call it that. In future accusations, please factor these two things in. Also, on defending being something scummy, maybe it it, but as it's not something which specifically hurts town, I don't see why a townie can't do it, and as such I do it.
@Mod, delete above post-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
MS: Hi Jennifer! Good luck with the game! It's only 20 pages so you could catch up real quick^.^
I see that my other head has created some... controversy and seems to have trouble appeasing the accusations from... this head's townreads.
I will try.
@BT Regarding #425, I honestly had trouble finding out what the problem was. In fact my eyes went from o.o to o.O(some arguments do not make sense)
"Nah, being all "I'm townreading this dude but I really want to vote him anyway" has 0 benefit for town because it just opens options / acts as a derailer, which means it's more likely to come from scum, like I said." I honestly do hope that you understand that KX was trolling. HD is obviously a townread, Kx and HD and me have been friends for a long time(them more than me), and a joke or two... is quite normal.
and I don't really find these accusations indicative of scum ,maybe you could explain? Bad play =/= Scum
"I think you're using MS's existence as an excuse to overdefend your slot. Not to mention it's an attempt at making people go easy on you, but yeah."
"Are you hopeful that I'm only trying to pressure you? That's cringe-worthy. I think you're scum and you're reading the justification."
Yeah those were... weird. Sorry but I have no idea how to respond to them. But for Bulbazak, since his style is rather similar to mine, I guess I can respond to him.
#447
"So...not for scumhunting. Gotcha. Also, you were in no danger of being lynched. Explanation rejected." Yeah I didn't think I was in danger of being lynched either, but KX talked to me on the chat and said that "if he didnt post the reads I would have been lynched". So I guess that KX genuinely felt that he was in danger of being lynched(wagons build up fast) and therefore posted the "peacemaker" reads. *shrugs*
"Your reads list was not to find scum... Fascinating..." lol
"Except if you had read through the thread, you would have gotten all the context you needed. Thus, those reads should have been all that was needed. Fact of the matter is, you went about it backwards. ISOs are nice, because they give you a bit of overview on a person's actions without reading through the thread. They're good time-wise for getting quick reads or going over your reads. However, if you want the best reads possible, you go through the entire thread, because then you get everything in context. However, you're claiming to have done the opposite: looking at context for preliminary reads and then without to finalize. Like I said, backwards. Sounds like someone got caught." Sounds like noobtown instead of scum to me. I mean, lazy towns probably won't bother to go through the entire thread just to "get everything in context" I probably wouldn't either. Caught for laziness? Yeah. Caught for Scum? Not necessarily.
"And what's your point?" lol
"No there isn't, unless you're saying that we have a neutral party in the game, which is impossible given the setup. Therefore, null and neutral mean the exact same thing." Bulbazak is right. There are only 2 scum factions in this game; they are either scum, not scum or unknown. Neutral = notsure = unknown = null. But despite this, I fail to see how this is a scumtell.
"Sounds like town pacification to me." lol
"Not scumslips. Scumtells. Two different things. Scumtells are what we use to hunt scum and are the basis of our reads. Yet, you never judged anyone's alignment base on scumtells of any kind. It was entirely based off of playstyle, which makes it read fake.
Can we please lynch this guy now?" Well, for starters you're going to need more evidence than that. I agree that most of your points here are true and accurate, but the problem here is that they aren't scumtells. Not at all. I have seen a majority of (bad) town players guilty of such things, one or another, and once again I repeat that bad play =/= scum. Bad play are grounds for a policy lynch, but you are incorrect that there is mounting evidence and scumtells to lynch me and my other head.
Once again I support you for your attempt at the self-vote and I support you for the useful reads and finger pointing you have done for the town.
I hope we can work together for the town. We would make a great scumhunter team. There are no night kills so I believe it is safe to play my best without fear of sniped in the night.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 518, Jennifer wrote:
VOTE: MO
MO is still coming across scummy to me and has 2 votes on him, meaning might be a viable lynch for today.
If I have to will vote TAM to secure a lynch (though given Voided's policy of plurality voting looks like wouldn't be needed)
Reason is I would rather vote someone who is still in the game, because means their scumminess is more likely because they really are scum and not because they no longer want to play.
MS:
Is that it? bulb and BT havent even replied to my longpost yet .____.
could you like, vote later after we receive a response I am getting long-post-no-reply syndrome-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 542, Ms Marangal wrote:you mean your long list of reads that looks manufactured?
no i mean my long reply to bulbazak
since its almost deadline and i think i'm gonna be lynched(KX was right! fuk u HD)
On behalf of KX:
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...
And for myself
....................../´¯/)
....................,/¯../
.................../..../
............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...')
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(
..............\.............\...-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
whoa shit LOL
woops >.<
Anyway lets get back to business
TUA's #577:
My agenda was clear for all lol. I was voting the next largest wagon at that point in time to save my sorry ass because Deadline was almost approaching and I wanted to do what I could to prevent a removal of a (in my eyes) definite town. My agenda was not hidden anybody with have a brain could see that.
In fact, your reflex reaction vote back on me was also a form of self preservation, so don't you dare call shit out on me for that pathetic reason. By your logic you would have been scum too.
#593 I lol'd
And there we go, finally a viable policy lynch target. Despite me, I am in favor of policy lynching day 1 and/or 2 to rid the most detrimental-to-town/noob players from the game, on the off chance that we hit scum, and at the very worst remove an obscenely bad player anyway -- not a person we would want in LYLO. Basically a Policy lynch is a town-mutually-agreed upon OMGUS .
VOTE: keybladewielder
#640
bubazak took 123 pages to reply my post ;-; Well you were sick so I forgive you.
Based on my meta of KX I'm not sure if he genuinely read the whole thread or not, he has been known to do that but I certainly wouldn't(lol) I understand that what you're saying is that ISOs are meant to scrutinise a player's posts only and not to read anything else from the thread. Well honestly I don't have too much of a comment on this because I... don't engage in such technobabble, but I believe it is not likely for an experienced mafia player, town or scum, to trip about game mechanics like that, and all the more he should scrutinise his own posts for mistakes before posting if Kx were scum.
also yeah I see where you're coming from with the Titan's post. I don't engage in semantics, too superficial, but if someone wishes to challenge me to a game of one I would kindly accept.
Yeah thats about all from 24-27 I guess. Looking forward to more replies!-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
MS:
@Bulbazak, 557:
It was unfortunate that the people on the wagon on me at that time were my town reads: BT, You and Jennifer(albeit of a null read at that point). It was not possible to garner information at that point with such little people on my wagon(4 people were on the majority which only 24 hours hours left on the deadline; that's half of the majority needed to lynch!) What was I supposed to do, call you and BT scum? I wanted to delay the lynch as long as possible until most players have read my (painstakingly) written #447, which unfortunately you denounced as "scummy", before judging and making the decision to lynch me afterwards. The fact of the matter was that I believed there was little grounds to my lynch, with only 4/9 voters needed for the majority, and most of my defense had not even been read; what else could I say but "Don't lynch me"?
@Drippinggoofball I'm sure he did a half-assed job. 1 minute per page. lol
Regarding the "reads", although I cannot deny the ones which was posted were manufactured and not really done with the sole intention of helping the town, do note that there are two heads in this hydra, with two different playstyles, and I appeal to you to create a solid read holistically by combining the reads of both heads together, and not just tunneling on a single "scumtell" from one head of what could have been a playstyle quirk.
Question for you, bulbazak. Why would you think that I would want to buddy up to you, of all players in this game? I do not deny the "buddying", and in fact I'm glad you noticed it, but there's no scum motivation if I wanted to buddy you for malicious reasons.
Also, agree with MM's #669-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 821, DrippingGoofball wrote:Hey guys
Since you seem to be too wimpy to lynch anybody, just lynch me and put me out of my misery.
I'm a vanilla townie.
VOTE: DGB
In post 822, DrippingGoofball wrote:Boo hoo hoo
I want to give Mastin-hydra a little more time
And you know Mastin-hydra will disappear and lurk again and you'll lose focus, spin on your own heels and lynch a townie.
Let that townie be me and let's do it quickly.
MS:
WTF is this post.... its a really bad post...
@ Bulbazak
"Yeah, I may have been wrong when I said the entire post was scummy. However, the entire point of that post was to pacify me and dismiss the scumtells I identified, without ever addressing them. So while the post may have been well reasoned and not scummy in and of itself, it's purpose was scummy in that it was to deflect focus away from the previous posts, which were scummy."
The previous posts were written by KX, which were scummy(in your opinion, nothing is objective here). The post that I had written, was not scummy by itself, but according to the context it is scummy. So basically anything I write to defend myself against the "scummy" posts is a scum post? What do you suggest I do then? Do nothing and let everybody focus on the "scummy" posts?
"So now I shouldn't think you're scum, because you're a hydra?"
No, what I meant to say was, you should only think I'm scum when you have garnered enough *consistent* evidence on both heads to determine that my slot is scum. For now, you have no definite proof against *me*; your main argument being that my "well-written" post was scummy because it was meant to defend my partner's posts; inextricably linking your scum reads just on my partner alone and through minimal fault of mine. For argument's sake, let's say you indeed have proof and find that my partner is "scummy", but the thing is, it could just be his playstyle you simply just disagree with. Unless you pick up a definite, independent scumtell from my very own posts(my partner's scum posts not withstanding), I believe you do not have enough evidence to judge my slot as scum.
"As you said, you felt we had similar posting styles, and that you could therefore reason with me, or in this case, talk me down. I was essentially the main proponent of your wagon. By buddying up to me, you were trying to diffuse your wagon without having to deal with the case being presented. It was self preservation, plain and simple."
You are good. The only problem which I see in the statement was that you have read my post a bit too late; but by the time you have read it my votecount had decreased from 5 to 3; independent of your reads. How do you explain that?-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 835, Metal Sonic wrote:Note a TUA/Bulbazak or MO/DGB buddying-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 850, Bulbazak wrote:Page 34:
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
The previous posts were written by KX, which were scummy(in your opinion, nothing is objective here). The post that I had written, was not scummy by itself, but according to the context it is scummy. So basically anything I write to defend myself against the "scummy" posts is a scum post? What do you suggest I do then? Do nothing and let everybody focus on the "scummy" posts?
The way you defended yourself was scummy. At no point do you try to discuss the points or the merits of the case, instead, you try to diffuse the situation and deflect attention away from the case by saying that you cannot be held responsible for your partner's scum posting, which is so antithetical to the game it's not funny.
I am not sure if you are misinterpreting me or are doing this on purpose. Taken out of context, my post would have been a well-written post with good reasoning and would have been a town tell, as you have said yourself.I want you, to find a scumtell in my posts, which can still be held under suspicion even when isolated from the case itself, before you can call me a definite scum. "Circumstantial Evidence" in this case is not enough. If we were not sharing the same slot, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think you would have called me town in that case. So once again find more solid evidence.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
Bulbazak wrote:So now I shouldn't think you're scum, because you're a hydra?
No, what I meant to say was, you should only think I'm scum when you have garnered enough *consistent* evidence on both heads to determine that my slot is scum. For now, you have no definite proof against *me*; your main argument being that my "well-written" post was scummy because it was meant to defend my partner's posts; inextricably linking your scum reads just on my partner alone and through minimal fault of mine. For argument's sake, let's say you indeed have proof and find that my partner is "scummy", but the thing is, it could just be his playstyle you simply just disagree with. Unless you pick up a definite, independent scumtell from my very own posts(my partner's scum posts not withstanding), I believe you do not have enough evidence to judge my slot as scum.
Except your partner committed several definite scumtells that could not be excused by playstyle. Those types of scumtells I would have zeroed in on no matter who committed them. Trying to excuse scum play by saying it's a playstyle is bad and is a no defense defense. Furthermore, your defense of his play was scummy, because it was meant to deflect attention away from the scumtells instead of actually addressing them. Essentially, you didn't want to discuss the actual validity of the case, but dismiss it instead. This is a huge scumtell for me. Finally, you tried to buddy up to me as a way to get me to disregard my case. Buddying IS a scumtell. So don't say that your hydra can't be held responsible for the scum posting from one of its members, because that in and of itself is a relativist fallacy and is scummy.
Except that "Scumtells" as defined by you are not set in stone. They are not like math or black-and-white, a town player can exhibit many "scumtells" which you have in your book but the slot happens to be town. If you have played enough games, you would have seen this phenomenon before. Simply, either the player sucks or has a playstyle thatdisagrees with you. Assuming that each player in a game is at a decent skill level, no player's playstyle is "bad", but whether they agree, disagree or is neutral with you. If they agree with you, it is a town tell, and if they don't you may see certain "scum tells". Once again I believe in the reality that you simply disagree with my partner's playstyle, so unless you can find evidence against me = both of us, you can't call us definite scum slot. Yes I was buddying with you, I'm glad you saw that.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
Bulbazak wrote:As you said, you felt we had similar posting styles, and that you could therefore reason with me, or in this case, talk me down. I was essentially the main proponent of your wagon. By buddying up to me, you were trying to diffuse your wagon without having to deal with the case being presented. It was self preservation, plain and simple.
You are good. The only problem which I see in the statement was that you have read my post a bit too late; but by the time you have read it my votecount had decreased from 5 to 3; independent of your reads. How do you explain that?
How does my reading the post too late invalidate my point or the fact that you buddied up to me? Me being late and a change in the vote count doesn't magically change your motives in the past. Seriously, what is this crap?
It invalidates it because I was able to get the lynch off me regardless of my buddying of you or not. That said, it means that my buddying with you had little or nothing to do with the case at hand(getting the lynch off me). Why do I need to buddy up to you just to remove 1 vote from my lynch when I have successfully done so by removing 3 from mine independent of your reaction? The fact is I buddied up to you, correct. But wrong answer, the motive was not to get you off my lynch.
In post 836, Metal Overlord wrote:In post 835, Metal Sonic wrote:Note a TUA/Bulbazak or MO/DGB buddying
What is this? Having trouble buddying up to me so you switch tactics? First, I have no need to buddy up with UA, because I could care less what he thinks. I simply noticed in my catch up that he was posting incredibly town. The fact that we have similar reads was an afterthought. Second, even if I was scum, buddying up to UA would be the dumbest thing ever. He's not exactly obv. town, and there's no real reason I'd want him on my side. In fact, buddying up to them as scum would only serve to get me lynched.
And you claim that DGB is buddying up to me?
I'm going to make this real clear so you don't misunderstand me: Having similar reads as someone or a town read on that person DOES NOT EQUAL BUDDYING! Although, you saying that I'm buddying up to them shows me that you KNOW they're town. It definitely helps my scumread of you.
Therefore the argument that DGB is attempting to buddy up to me as you have accused is as moot as you buddying up to TUA. Unless you can argue otherwise.
Yay! I'm all caught up and stuff. I have a few more things I want to check up on, but I like my vote where it is.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 891, Bulbazak wrote:In post 886, OtterHorse wrote:In post 885, Jennifer wrote:UNVOTE: TUA
VOTE: MO
I like TUA's staying in fighting against the lynch.
I would almost be fine quick lynching Jen if thats an option. While TUA is best avaiable lynch, Jen might almost be at the point where she is passing Antilles for scummiest.
Do explain.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
Except that "Scumtells" as defined by you are not set in stone. They are not like math or black-and-white, a town player can exhibit many "scumtells" which you have in your book but the slot happens to be town. If you have played enough games, you would have seen this phenomenon before. Simply, either the player sucks or has a playstyle thatdisagrees with you. Assuming that each player in a game is at a decent skill level, no player's playstyle is "bad", but whether they agree, disagree or is neutral with you. If they agree with you, it is a town tell, and if they don't you may see certain "scum tells". Once again I believe in the reality that you simply disagree with my partner's playstyle, so unless you can find evidence against me = both of us, you can't call us definite scum slot. Yes I was buddying with you, I'm glad you saw that.
No that is not how I define "scumtells", and I would appreciate you not putting words in my mouth. I rely on the same scumtells game after game, and they serve me quite well. As such, manufacturing of reads (ie. non-genuine reads) is a scumtell. Lying is a scumtell (I caught KX doing this with the read order thing. It was backward, which means that it was false, which means he was lying.). Doing something for the sole purpose of pacifying town is a scumtell. Trying to deflect the case against you, rather than confronting it, is a scumtell. Attempts to discredit a person or their case is a scumtell. Buddying is a scumtell. Need I go on?
My profound apologies, I have genuinely worded my point wrongly. What I meant to say was that "Scumtells are not set in stone, the book of scumtells that you have is not kept by all; it is not standard." I hope this clarifies. I'm glad you put your "scumtells" all on the table for all to see, but my playstyle argument still stands. Evidence: Ms Marangal testified to display such "scumtells" in your list, even as town. Once again, A town player can exhibit the scum tells in your book due to playstyle, simply because your "scumtells" are not standard.
And saying that you are not responsible for all that your slot does is ludicrous. The alignment of your slot does not magically change simply because there are 2 people playing instead of 1. The fact of the matter is that your partner was scummy and was caught. Tough luck. And maybe I backed down a little off the scumminess of your early posts because of how well-written they were. But in the end, posts are judged by the content therein, not by how pretty they are, and once I get past that, your posts are still pretty scummy.
Actually, I never said that. Seriously, when did I say that? What I said was that you could be seeing scumtells on my partner just because you disagree with his playstyle. In order to make sure you have determined the alignment of my slot, both heads must be seen as scum, separately, then you can confirm that the slot is or is not town. Do you deny that you have mislynched a villager once or more before just because he was exhibiting "scumtells" but wasn't actually scum? That is what I mean. The fact that there are two heads here only serves as a double-check. And as I can see your only "scumtell" on me is correlated to my partner; no I am not shirking responsibility, but it is very obvious that your view of alignment of me is prejudiced and tainted because of the linkage with him. Your argument is "Your partner is scummy and you are defending him poorly therefore you must be scum as well!" which is a fallacy, and the correct way it should be is "Your partner is scummy, you are scummy, the slot is scum". I am arguing that you are against my partner and therefore my slot just because you have issues with his playstyle, and unless you can show independent evidence against me that rules out any possibility of playstyle quirks being part of the equation, you cannot indict me as scum. This is not the issue of shirking responsibility, it is the issue of you having tainted views which always have the possibility to be wrong and then imposing them on others.
And I have several town reads that don't agree with me, Titan and Klick being two right off the top of my head.I meant playstyle agreement, not points or argument agreement. Just to clarify. In fact, if you could refer to Titian's earlier posts, he stressed that KX seems scummy while I seem towny, therefore undecided on my alignment. I urge you to do the same, and not "KX is scummy therefore the slot is scum"
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote:
It invalidates it because I was able to get the lynch off me regardless of my buddying of you or not. That said, it means that my buddying with you had little or nothing to do with the case at hand(getting the lynch off me). Why do I need to buddy up to you just to remove 1 vote from my lynch when I have successfully done so by removing 3 from mine independent of your reaction? The fact is I buddied up to you, correct. But wrong answer, the motive was not to get you off my lynch.
That logic is so backwards it hurts. That's the equivalent of saying you didn't beat up someone 3 days ago because you lost your hands NOW. Your actions do not magically change because I didn't comment on those actions until long after they were committed. You buddied up to me to diffuse a wagon and get me on your side. Just because the wagon had diffused when I finally got around to addressing you does not mean that you didn't commit those actions for those reasons.
I disagree. I believe that it is the equivalent of saying I didn't beat up someone 3 days ago for the intent of murder, but instead for the intent to "teach him a lesson", even though he had been murdered by the mafia 3 days later. My actions do not magically change, correct. To get you on my side? Correct. To diffuse a wagon? I've already done so! What did you have to do with the wagon when it had already diffused before you came back? It's the equivalent of removing you from the equation and still managing to diffuse the wagon, successfully.
Did I mention how bad that logic was?
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder
Actually, I never said that. Seriously, when did I say that? What I said was that DGB was your scumbuddy and was chainsaw defending you. I beg you to get your facts straight and think things through before you misrep someone.
Woops. Well I'm sorry, I meant that TUA was your almost-dead scumbuddy and you are not chainsaw defending him. Does this make that better?
Seriously, why is everyone letting MO get away with such blatant scumposting? UA is town. MO is scum.I love ultimatumsGet on the ball.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Yeah well Jen for tomorrow I guess. Today's possibilities are TUA or KBW or MO. There isn't much a case against MO except TUA spamming "this guy is scum!" and Bulbazak saying "I believe that it is comprehensible that the slot of Metal Overlord is a scum aligned one." and Jen saying "TUA is good MO is bad"
tl;dr my votes are all OMGUSes-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 907, Bulbazak wrote:@MM: Buddying absolutely is a scumtell. Town shouldn't care what anybody thinks of them, and therefore should have no reason to buddy up to somebody. Buddying is getting on somebody's good side for the sole purpose of them liking you and hopefully not lynching you. This goes against town's main objective, which is to scumhunt. However, it plays perfectly with scum's objective, which is to survive at all costs.
Also, lying is something town should never do. Again, town should have no need to be dishonest and to outright fabricate. Can town be secretive? Yes. Should they ever lie? No.
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:In post 891, Bulbazak wrote:
And saying that you are not responsible for all that your slot does is ludicrous. The alignment of your slot does not magically change simply because there are 2 people playing instead of 1. The fact of the matter is that your partner was scummy and was caught. Tough luck. And maybe I backed down a little off the scumminess of your early posts because of how well-written they were. But in the end, posts are judged by the content therein, not by how pretty they are, and once I get past that, your posts are still pretty scummy.
Actually, I never said that. Seriously, when did I say that?
Hmm... How about:
In post 674, Metal Overlord wrote:
do note that there are two heads in this hydra, with two different playstyles, and I appeal to you to create a solid read holistically by combining the reads of both heads together, and not just tunneling on a single "scumtell" from one head of what could have been a playstyle quirk.
In post 833, Metal Overlord wrote: For now, you have no definite proof against *me*
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:
Do you deny that you have mislynched a villager once or more before just because he was exhibiting "scumtells" but wasn't actually scum?
What does this have to do with the case at hand? A few mislynches does not cancel out the successful application of certain scumtells or their validity. This is simply Correlation Implies Causation, which is a logical fallacy. I would like you to address the case by its own merits, and not try to discredit it through some other means.
This proves that even you and your "scumtells" are not infallible, and also have a possibility of making mistakes. I am implying that you are wrong, in the case of this game.
You do make a decent point about possible confirmation bias. However, that would be true only if I was looking at KX scum, painted the entire slot as that, and argued that with you having no say to dissuade me. But that is not the case. I saw a player, or in this case a hydra, commit a series of scumtells, which I pointed out and voted them for. I did this with no thought whatsoever on which half of the hydra committed the tells, as it was only one slot. You were the one that brought it up and tried to use it as a defense. It's like replacing into a slot and then arguing that your predecessor's scumminess cannot be used against you. This is false, as the slot remains the same regardless of who's playing, and I've successfully lynched players who replaced in a scum slot primarily BECAUSE of their predecessor's scumminess. I recognize that the original actions were committed by your partner, and that I'm talking to you now, but the fact remains that your slot as a whole committed those scumtells, as well as others, and is therefore scummy.
This argument is fair enough.
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote: I am arguing that you are against my partner and therefore my slot just because you have issues with his playstyle, and unless you can show independent evidence against me that rules out any possibility of playstyle quirks being part of the equation, you cannot indict me as scum.
Even if we were to separate everything from the context of what your partner did, you still buddied up to me, which, as I've said before, is a scumtell.
Just to make things clear for all town to see, lets refer to the part where I buddied you.
In post 477, Metal Overlord wrote:
Once again I support you for your attempt at the self-vote and I support you for the useful reads and finger pointing you have done for the town.
I hope we can work together for the town. We would make a great scumhunter team. There are no night kills so I believe it is safe to play my best without fear of sniped in the night.
From my knowledge of mafia buddying, they usually either defend, or constantly agree with said person. Just food for thought. If you view this as a scumtell, once again its your subjective opinion and I cannot say otherwise.
You also accused me of buddying up to TUA, which implies that he is town, something that you'd only know if you were scum.
Is it possible, that both of you are scum? There is always a possibility, no? One thing's for sure, you are a superior player to TUA. In weaker cases, TUA would try to buddy up to you with "Bulbazak is definitely town because xxx", but somebody like me will spot this immediately. So instead, you take a different position of defending him, with your currently unarguably high town-cred. Could you please provide reasons on why TUA is a bad lynch, and consequently a worse choice for a lynch than me?
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:
My actions do not magically change, correct. To get you on my side? Correct. To diffuse a wagon? I've already done so! What did you have to do with the wagon when it had already diffused before you came back? It's the equivalent of removing you from the equation and still managing to diffuse the wagon, successfully.
My point being that you buddied up to me with the purpose of diffusing the wagon on you. Just because I came back at a later point to address it does not change the fact that you committed that act with that purpose at that time.
I see. Well then if my buddying up to you was specific for the intention to get only you off my wagon, why did the others get off my wagon first before you? Are you implying that my buddying up to you was not meant for you? Would the end result have changed if I happened to buddy somebody else?
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:
Woops. Well I'm sorry, I meant that TUA was your almost-dead scumbuddy and you are chainsaw defending him. Does this make that better?
I love the complete 180 you've made on me. It gives me warm fuzzies to see scum flail in such an obvious manner.
I have no idea why you find TUA town... really...
Two things wrong with that:
1.) For my vote to be an OMGUS, you would have had to have voted me before I voted you, which you did not. At the very least, you should have had an extreme suspicion that I was scum, which you did not. In essence, you are desperate to discredit my case, and that includes lie about it.
My apologies for my sweeping statement. However, do you deny that TUA's vote on me was not an OMGUS?
2.) I do indeed have a case against you/your slot. In fact, we've been arguing about it's validity this entire time (and not its individual points). For the sake of those who do not want to read a novel to find it, I'll put it in its own separate post. Maybe then people can see there's a series of justifiable reasons to lynch your slot.
@UA: Three things about your first point against OH:
1.) RBD is female. Therefore it is not that strange for her to like MLP.
2.) What people do or do not like is inconsequential to them being scum.
3.) Let's keep this stupidity out of the thread please.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Ok firstly I'll rebut the points that I can rebut against me, and I'll let KX rebut those which are targeted at him, because he knows his own intentions better than I do
In post 911, Bulbazak wrote:The case on MO (for those who refuse to read walls and other relevant bits of information):
1.) Their stance on policy lynches are just bad. It's not even like other players' views on PLs, where it is sometimes a necessary evil, but instead, they advocate policy lynching for the sake of policy lynching. Simply put, they'd rather policy lynch than do actual scumhunting.
Point disproven. Early pushes for KBW policy lynch paid off. Just because you don't agree with our strategy does not make it a scumtell.
2.) Their reads list was fake and not genuine at all. Its only purpose was to placate town, not to help in the scumhunting and find scum.Kx will reply
3.) Their reasoning for the difference in reads when confronted was completely backwards. You do not read the entire thread to get general reads and then read ISOs to solidify them through context. Simply put, they got caught faking reads and messed up on their lie to get out of it.Kx will reply
4.) They succumbed to the pressure on them and panicked about being lynched, although at no point were they ever in danger of being lynched. Town would have continued scumhunting, instead all they were worried about was self-preservation. This is in line more with a scum mindset than a town one.Kx will reply the first statement. Regarding the second statement, anybody will preserve themselves. Nobody, regardless of alignment, will want to be lynched. For a townie, you are the only person that is confirmed town, so you should defend yourself at all costs.
5.) They have repeatedly tried to dismiss or discredit the case against them, rather than dealing with it. Originally this was done by trying to disassociate the two sides of the hydra. More recently, they have tried to claim that those on their wagon are on because of OMGUS, even though this is a blatant lie. As I said before, self-preservation at all costs.
We have never dismissed a case, and if a case can be discredited, it is a bad/weak case. Even still, discrediting, is at least directly, confronting the case. Regarding the OMGUS, I would like everybody to refer toIn post 701, TheUnderachivers wrote:Shit.
KBW might be town.
VOTE: Metal Overlord.
We can still make this happen, no?
Lol
6.) They buddied up to me to try to get me to drop the case against them and to get me on their side. As I've said repeatedly, buddying is a scumtell, as town has no reason to buddy, since they are too busy trying to catch scum.
Insofar, this "buddying" up to you had not managed to get you to drop the case against me, as you claim. However, the others have somehow dropped the case against me despite not being the target of any buddying. Can you explain the discrepancy?
7.) After they saw that they could not deter me, they did a complete 180 and started implying I was scummy for some indeterminate reason. Personally, I think they're just flailing at this point.
Confirmation bias
8.) In an effort to do so, they claimed that I was buddying up to TUA. The problem with this is that the only way I could be buddying to TUA was if I was scum and they were town. This goes against everything they've said about TUA's slot. Not only that, but it shows a knowledge of TUA's alignment, which only scum would know.
9.) After I pointed out the stupidity of the TUA buddying argument, they then backpedaled and accused me of being scumbuddies with TUA and chainsaw defending him. This would only have merit if I had been calling them scum only after the major TUA push began and they voted for TUA, however, I've been on MO as scum since before then, so I don't know where they're getting this.
8 and 9 are the same. Apparently, while accusing DGB of chainsaw defending me, you neglected that DGB never called you scum and in fact was pushing more for TUA. Notwithstanding I have no idea what chainsaw defending means, but if we were to draw parallels DGB was voting TUA very early as well, just as you have voted for me. On this point I have no idea what I'm talking about, but I am sure of this fact: more people are in favor of lynching TUA than me, with more solid reasons and different perspectives. Do share why TUA refused to distinguish which head was posting for the town.
In summary, MO is scum, plain and simple. So I implore everyone: Save a town. Lynch a scum-hydra.
Bulbazak can you please read this please?In post 521, Titan wrote:UNVOTE:
I'll put down a vote tomorrow. Hopefully I'll talk to arthur and see where he wants it. I think that MO is in the lead now, but I'm not seeing that as a good lynch. I do think the kx head read scummy but the ms head reads townish, and honestly right now I'm inclined to not vote for someone who's actually putting some effort into the game when a good number of people aren't doing anything or are promising content to come. And with that said, I'll probably be up for an underachivers lynch
This is what I mean by taking the heads reads separately then combining their reads together to get a final read.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 943, TheUnderachivers wrote:I'm tired and my tooth hurts but lol if you think my vote on you was an OMGUS.
lol if you/or your head thought KBW was town-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 952, Jennifer wrote:
And yet you voted TUA... why didn't you vote KBW if you are such a fan of a policy lynch on KBW?
VOTE: MO
Others proving my point for me holds more credence to me proving it myself. Besides, many others were against me for a policy lynch, especially Bulbazak, well so I don't policy lynch, and let you guys do it. Guess what? I was right!-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
In post 961, Human Destroyer wrote:KBW scum flip gives me confidence that my reads are correct.
VOTE: Metal Overlord
This is the guy that needs to die right now.
Lol i'll let KX talk to you since you just love mislynching me >.>-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Meh, k, KX here, ./unragequit. MS convinced me to return etc, I think I'm caught up. First the things MS wanted me to address, then it's 2 AM, so ima head to sleep, some more stuff in the morning. My stuff is in italics btw.
The case on MO (for those who refuse to read walls and other relevant bits of information):I assume then this is the entire case against us?
1.) Their stance on policy lynches are just bad. It's not even like other players' views on PLs, where it is sometimes a necessary evil, but instead, they advocate policy lynching for the sake of policy lynching. Simply put, they'd rather policy lynch than do actual scumhunting.
Point disproven. Early pushes for KBW policy lynch paid off. Just because you don't agree with our strategy does not make it a scumtell.Wanted to add on here that this actually makes it a towntell, seeing as how it would have been extremely easy to say we don't favor policy lynches, but instead said we supported them when the main option was scum. Could be bussing, but doesn't seem like the appropriate time or place to buss
2.) Their reads list was fake and not genuine at all. Its only purpose was to placate town, not to help in the scumhunting and find scum.Kx will replyExcuse me, but were do I say it was fake? Those were my actual reads at that point. Yeah, the main motivation in making them was to give town something to judge the slot off of, not finding scum, but I don't see how that takes away from the fact that they were scumreads which showed who I found as scum.
3.) Their reasoning for the difference in reads when confronted was completely backwards. You do not read the entire thread to get general reads and then read ISOs to solidify them through context. Simply put, they got caught faking reads and messed up on their lie to get out of it.Kx will replyWell, fuck you too. Care to explain any proof you have of this? I'm sorry if you dislike how I play, but it's what I do. I read the thread to see what happened, how things went down, etc, then did ISOs to confirm or deny things I picked up about certain people, and while looking at an individual posts I could remember how it fit into things before. Also, if you're saying I only did that when confronted, and it was a lie made to get out of it, check out post #370 and #372. In both I say that I willdo the ISOs later, and this is before suspicion in large came to me. Simply put, you didn't read my posts and made an incorrect assumption about how things would be done, then made up an incriminating explanation for why
4.) They succumbed to the pressure on them and panicked about being lynched, although at no point were they ever in danger of being lynched. Town would have continued scumhunting, instead all they were worried about was self-preservation. This is in line more with a scum mindset than a town one.Kx will reply the first statement.Wut the fuq? "The succumbed to the pressure when there wasn't even pressure" Sorry if this is misrepping, but can you read this to yourself? I made the post primarily because I wanted town to have something to go off of on the slot. We had done very little, and I wanted to change that. Idk about you, but I think if somebody does nothing they should get lynched.
In post 965, Metal Overlord wrote:In post 961, Human Destroyer wrote:KBW scum flip gives me confidence that my reads are correct.
VOTE: Metal Overlord
This is the guy that needs to die right now.
Lol i'll let KX talk to you since you just love mislynching me >.>
Hey HD bro, you like being scum? More to come later, but in short, does anybody who's played with HD think this seems normal for him? Ordinarily he's way more active and involved, and his go-to strategy as scum is lurk. He certainly isn't lacking time, he actually started hosting a game on another site we play on, so yeah.
Still kinda pressed for time, but think I can manage and hopefully be active.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
Manufactured = faked. Simple English lesson there, and congrats, you got it for free. And again, as town your primary goal should be to scumhunt, not to placate town. All I see from your admitted reasons are scum motives.
You seem to be using the definition meaning to concoct or invent; to fabricate. Weren't you saying you were going to assume I wasn't an idiot? Why would I admit I faked reads? When I used that word, I meant as in to make or produce something. As in, I didn't do it because I thought "oh, I should share what I think" I did if for a specific reason. And weren't you going at me at one point for trying to start something with semantics?
Simply put, what you said IS backwards. ISOs are good for general reads, and a complete readthrough of the thread gives you better reads due to context. You, however, said the exact opposite. My explanation is you got caught faking reads and lied about it, rather badly I might add. The only other explanation is you really did this, and are therefore a complete idiot. I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt.
As I said, fuck you too. That's how I do stuff.
First, you obviously misquoted. I'm starting to rethink you not being an idiot, especially with the quote directly above you. Second, any vote is pressure. The pressure simply increases as more votes are added. This is why a single vote can be good as pressure to urge discussion. However, you were never in danger of a lynch. Thus you panicking under very little pressure is telling. I might be able to understand it if you were under the same pressure TUA was yesterday, or Jen today, who is currently at L-2. But you started panicking when you were between L-7 and L-5, because let's be honest your wagon never got past L-4. You were NEVER in any real danger of being lynched, and even if you were, there were better ways to handle it, such as trying to get your final reads or thoughts out, or addressing what exactly was wrong with your wagon, all of which are helpful to the town. Instead, you went into full self-preservation mode and mainly tried to placate us and serve us heaping helpings of AtE.
Considering I had justgivenmy reads, I didn't have any final reads to say. Also, I believe I tried to say what was wrong with it, but nobody was willing to listen, so then I decided to not waste any more time on the game and ragequit. Upon rereading, yeah, I get what you meant. That was total misrep. But check this shit out:
In post 370, Metal Overlord wrote:Ok, just finished reading the thread over, will move onto ISOs in a second for more accurate reads
This is were I would have to first have lied about in what order I did things. However, at that point, I had exactly one vote on me, and it's an RVS vote. So yeah, please tell me, were is the supposed pressure I cracked under?
Actually, HD just got back from being V/LA. So attempt to cause a mislynch via lying and fallacy is denied.
Oh cool, so now HD can respond to it himself! In my post I said why I knew he wasn't inactive, so yeah. As for attempting to cause a mislych, first, were is my vote on him? Were are other votes on him? Were am I pushing for him to be lynched? Also, for it being a mislynch, that would be evidence only if I were scum. If your evidence for why a person is scum only works if you assume the person is scum, the only person in a fallacy here is you.
In post 988, RachMarie wrote:Can you show me where HD is lurking? I have always played with a hyper agressive and usually bulldog with a bone tunneling HD...
Looking over some of his games, I might actually be wrong here. However, certain events I won't divulge due to ongoing game led me to believe such. Even if so though, I would like HD to post a little more.
On the subject of the Jenn lynch, no clue why MS is voting on it, but I was under the impression they were scummy myself. This was because of Serra's play and their vote on me over TUA. However, Bulbazac left something important out when mentioning said post. In that post, they claim they're voting us of TUA because TUA was trying to stay alive, and fighting the lynch. That is one an entirely BS reason. However, I do see what you mean about otherwise a lack of evidence, and it certainly doesn't seem like enough to quicklynch.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
MS:
unvote][/unvote]
If Kx has doubts about this, then I will hold on until we have a mutually agreed upon scumread
In post 1014, Metal Overlord wrote:If your evidence for why a person is scum only works if you assume the person is scum, the only person in a fallacy here is you.
Good job KX that was very powerful!
In post 451, Metal Overlord wrote:Sorry MS, but Cool Story Bros. Lynch me. I want you all to know what it's like to be wrong. GL mafia, but with this lot, you have nothing to fear.
You were at L-7 at the time. There was no danger of being lynched.
In post 525, Voidedmafia wrote:Votecount 1.15:
Metal Overlord - Bulbazak, BT, Jennifer, Human Destroyer
The Acting Method - ms. marangal
Bulbazak - Reek, keybladewielder
Robocopter - rachmarie
Reek - Metal Overlord
Underachivers - Robocopter, Otterhorse
keybladewielder - arcangel8, underachivers
RachMarie - Klick
Not Voting - antilles, The Acting Method, Titan
With 17 alive it takes 9 to lynch and to no-lynch.
Deadline is in (expired on 2013-03-31 00:58:14) or by midnight on April 1st, 2013.
The Mastin2 head of The Underarchivers is V/LA until at least the end of March.
Still searching for a replacement for Reek, TAM, and BT.
I don't know about Kx but...
EvenIwas flustered at L-5. The problem was that deadline was quickly approaching and a solid lynch target hasn't been established despite me hinting or soft pushing for KBW policy lynch. If deadline had not been coincidentally extended time and time again, I would have been the unfortunate victim of a lynch without trial; recall that I had written a long #447 to you and you had not read it yet --- it would've been okay if you found it scummy and lynched me, but lynch without trial is gey imo.
Well anyway, I'm not giving up yet, so there will be no AtE (fuk u stupid towns lynch me and cry) until I do break down, which Bulbazak is trying very hard to do.
Let us get this straight for a moment.
In post 984, Bulbazak wrote:In post 942, Metal Overlord wrote:In post 907, Bulbazak wrote:
In post 894, Metal Overlord wrote:
Do you deny that you have mislynched a villager once or more before just because he was exhibiting "scumtells" but wasn't actually scum?
What does this have to do with the case at hand? A few mislynches does not cancel out the successful application of certain scumtells or their validity. This is simply Correlation Implies Causation, which is a logical fallacy. I would like you to address the case by its own merits, and not try to discredit it through some other means.
This proves that even you and your "scumtells" are not infallible, and also have a possibility of making mistakes. I am implying that you are wrong, in the case of this game.
Everybody makes mistakes. It's part of the game. However, that does not automatically mean that you can dismiss everything they say. No one's going to be perfect in their scumhunting. Period. Expecting them to be so is a fallacy (7 of 7 or BoP, I'm not sure which.). Let's stick with the points of the case, shall we?
My argument here is thatYou are Wrong.That is what I aim to prove throughout our course of argument. You are attempting to prove that I am scum, and I am here to prove you wrong(without necessitating a flip). Hope this helps focus.
One more thing to add, is that as a town player I have been trying very hard to construct really long tl;dr posts and try my best to make them logical, reasonable and genuine. I cannot say the same for TUA.
In post 966, TheUnderachivers wrote:Unvote: DGB.
Sorry, Nero, that I'm not going to agree with you on a DGB wagon, because THIS...In post 950, Rainbowdash wrote:In post 949, RachMarie wrote:@ Dashie
How likely do you think it is that at least one scum was on Key's wagon to bus him for town cred?
When he had a lot of votes initally, high since it was policy. The final wagon (especially the few that came after my vote) low as simply not posting would have gotten somepony else lynched. Now that all goes up in smoke with a MO/TUA scumflip since its swapping scum lynch for scum lynch, but if MO and TUA are town than zdn, Bulb, RM are all above average town picks to the point where I would say no more than one scum and the O/U is probably .5
Its probably easier/better to try and base reads off of KBW actions and votes. Thats why Bulb is town, and DGB is somewhat likely town, and mayyybe TUA but that was self-preservation and TUA is TUA. Utility lynches are never all that bad.
Jen/Antilles need so much dead though right now.
...Needs sheeping.
RBD's done an amazing job of reversing my scumread there.
VOTE: Jennifer.
In post 905, TheUnderachivers wrote:MOAR MO VOTES. Please don't let this hydra be mislynched on day 1 two games in a row.
In post 757, TheUnderachivers wrote:In post 753, DrippingGoofball wrote:why are you going the pity angle "DGB always calls me scum"?
Stop twisting my words. There is no "pity angle" I'm stating a fact. You know damn well that I can't disscuss on going and what it looks like is your trying to get me ticked of so that I do mention them and get modkilled. Now fuck off and die, scum-
-
Metal Overlord
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
@Rainbow, our discussion on KBW was nonexistent. Me and MS have been running a very disconnected Hydra, not really talking about the game much together. I believe the extent of it was a few words about if we were for policy lynches or not, but even that I'm not sure about. Also, you asked a question for how we are about bussing, I don't have any scum meta, and not sure about MS. You can check Friends and Enemies, which was already linked in the thread, for me as a Mason though, were I ignored one of my partners for the most part and formed a rather awkward (imo, though apparently people bought it) negative relation with the other.
@Bulbakaz, a question, you failed to disprove any of the defenses I raised against your points regarding me aside from that I ragequit, which, as far as I know, isn't alignment indicative. What do you currently think of me in particular? Also, want me to make a compilation of all the horrible arguments/responses you've made?
@HD, why do you find our slot scum?
How is Antilles even still in the game? Anyway, would be fine with their lynch.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
@Rainbow, I might have missed it, but didn't see them camping TUA much, or attacking DGB/Robo. Also, I see one post pestering KBW, but otherwise no defense, closest to it is townreading them slightly. Admittedly they have very few posts, but still.
Klick, current reads?
Also, TAM/Lurker seem to have done almost literally nothing, so yeah.-
-
Metal Overlord Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 160
- Joined: March 13, 2013
-
-
-
-
-